"Erasing" "rogue" trails on Mt Tam.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    "Erasing" "rogue" trails on Mt Tam.

    Illegal trails to be erased from Mount Tam as part of ongoing project - Marin Independent Journal
    Is anyone else pissed about this nonsense? I moved away 2 yrs ago, and really miss the riding, but don't miss the trail insanity. Don't they have anything better to spend their $$ on? Many of these trails are very well established.
    Please refrain from responding to crazy a$$ Terri and her legion of holier than thou idiots.
    Illegal trails to be erased from Mount Tam as part of ongoing project - Marin Independent Journal

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  4. #4
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    ^hahaha, mandatory gap...
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    the comment "wars" at the bottom of that article are hilarious

  6. #6
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    Experienced mtb advocates know better than to participate in these sort of discussion in the IJ.Objections to mtb hit a visceral place and resonate deeply whether based in fact or not.

    Nothing is gained and it gives Terri and Mike et al a platform much to their advantage. Yet there is a endless steam of folks who step up to "defend" and simply fall into their Chinese Finger Puzzle trap. Meanwhile these whack jobs are constant, and somehow manage to put over their false logic and poor assumptions to appear righteous defenders of the weak.
    I don't rattle.

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    It just baffles me how ignorant people can be, I can't help just shake my head and laugh

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    I love the picture in the article of four workers in their mandatory green khaki outfits on their hands and knees placing small stones on the trail tread. Now that is efficient trail work.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

  9. #9
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    wow! some of those 'protectors of the wilderness' woulda *****ed about Lewis and Clark. when the issue becomes a religion, you've gone beyond reason.

  10. #10
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    I've hiked every inch of Tam. The trails in question are old hiker & social trails. MMWD confirmed as much in a town hall type meeting 2 yrs ago (gasps from the hikers). We shouldn't waste a breath on this. Absurd that we still get heat for it.
    I like to bike.

  11. #11
    Brake. Fix. Repeat.
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    We need more legal single track. That would slow the creation of rouge trails and thin down the volume of high-speed bikers that the hikers despise. Win/Win/Win.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    I've hiked every inch of Tam. The trails in question are old hiker & social trails. MMWD confirmed as much in a town hall type meeting 2 yrs ago (gasps from the hikers). We shouldn't waste a breath on this. Absurd that we still get heat for it.
    Amen to that! On the flip side, these informal social trails often lead to interesting places like Dutch Man's Rock or Music Camp. It's kind of an absurd thing to control as new ones ate popping up all the time. Quite frankly, I'm a little more concerned about LARGE scale marijuana grows in the watershed and all the chemicals they dump into our water supply.

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    one could argue that the reason there are rogue trails is that there are not enough legal trails...best to use the money to build more legal, sustainable trails than to close down existing ones imo...but that's a pipe dream i know..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    one could argue that the reason there are rogue trails is that there are not enough legal trails...best to use the money to build more legal, sustainable trails than to close down existing ones imo...but that's a pipe dream i know..
    What's wrong with you? Rational arguments have no place in this discussion!!
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

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    Given that building illegal trails is a private sector endevor and decomissioning them is a public sector endevor I belive that the construction of new illegal trail will out pace the removal of illegal trail. Just sayin.......

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    How does one remove a trail anyway?

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    This makes my head spin...

    We don't have this issue yet. I can show you Mendocino like it's 1983. Happy Trails Nugjug

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr2peak View Post
    How does one remove a trail anyway?
    Well, in Santa Cruz the park rangers took a rototiller up and down a trail and then chopped down about 100 trees to cover the churned up mess. All in the effort to stop mountain bikers from "damaging the fragile ecosystem."
    The arsonist has oddly shaped feet!

  19. #19
    YESBRO!!!
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    Throwing the baby out with the bathwater I think it's called.

  20. #20
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    I admit to being biased, but I think most of the pro-mtb comments sound pretty rational, and like likes of John Parulis & Mike Vandman sound like wack-jobs. I donít think our ignoring them is getting us anywhere. Frankly, I think some volatility, along with the large number of comments is good for our position with Marin IJ. I believe most of the related articles in the IJ have been more biased against us, than for. Maybe thatís because most of the feedback they get on articles such as this have been against us. Thereís no doubt they keep a tally. The traffic to these pages are what sells ads for them, right? Maybe as they see a larger number of their audience shifting toward pro-mtb, they will cater more to us.

    I got heavily involved in advocacy about 10 years ago, thinking I could make a difference. I spent a couple of years beating my head against a wall, until I became disgruntled and disenfranchised. Ultimately, I gave up, deciding I was better off just trying to fly under the radar, quietly poaching singletrack. Nothing has changed in 10 years. How long have they been saying, ďWell, weíre talking about opening Billís TrailĒ?

    I felt optimistic when I saw MCBC get involved. However, when I heard their mantra was to be good and self-enforce, I lost hope. Thatís what we were preaching 10 years ago. We need to stand up and be heard. We need to fight for what is right. Our numbers are too large to be ignored any longer. We need a protest. Iím not sure how to get it started, but Iíd like to be involved.
    If white is the "new black", then thanks but I'll stick with the old black...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I admit to being biased, but I think most of the pro-mtb comments sound pretty rational, and like likes of John Parulis & Mike Vandman sound like wack-jobs. I donít think our ignoring them is getting us anywhere. Frankly, I think some volatility, along with the large number of comments is good for our position with Marin IJ. I believe most of the related articles in the IJ have been more biased against us, than for. Maybe thatís because most of the feedback they get on articles such as this have been against us. Thereís no doubt they keep a tally. The traffic to these pages are what sells ads for them, right? Maybe as they see a larger number of their audience shifting toward pro-mtb, they will cater more to us.

    I got heavily involved in advocacy about 10 years ago, thinking I could make a difference. I spent a couple of years beating my head against a wall, until I became disgruntled and disenfranchised. Ultimately, I gave up, deciding I was better off just trying to fly under the radar, quietly poaching singletrack. Nothing has changed in 10 years. How long have they been saying, ďWell, weíre talking about opening Billís TrailĒ?

    I felt optimistic when I saw MCBC get involved. However, when I heard their mantra was to be good and self-enforce, I lost hope. Thatís what we were preaching 10 years ago. We need to stand up and be heard. We need to fight for what is right. Our numbers are too large to be ignored any longer. We need a protest. Iím not sure how to get it started, but Iíd like to be involved.
    If you haven't done so already- please make a donation for the Stafford Lake Bike Park. Things are changing slowly- but the fact is Marin will never become the North Shore. There never seems to be a shortage of trails when I want to go riding.....

  22. #22
    I like mtn biking, too
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I admit to being biased, but I think most of the pro-mtb comments sound pretty rational, and like likes of John Parulis & Mike Vandman sound like wack-jobs.
    Well, here is my take on it - if you can easily see this, it is guaranteed that other people will, too. The irrationality and criminal record of the opposition does nothing for them and reflects positively on us, especially if we keep the high road.

    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I donít think our ignoring them is getting us anywhere. Frankly, I think some volatility, along with the large number of comments is good for our position with Marin IJ. I believe most of the related articles in the IJ have been more biased against us, than for. Maybe thatís because most of the feedback they get on articles such as this have been against us. Thereís no doubt they keep a tally. The traffic to these pages are what sells ads for them, right? Maybe as they see a larger number of their audience shifting toward pro-mtb, they will cater more to us.
    The press in general thrives on controversy. Controversy drives page views. Pissing of mountain bikers drives page views.

    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I felt optimistic when I saw MCBC get involved. However, when I heard their mantra was to be good and self-enforce, I lost hope. Thatís what we were preaching 10 years ago. We need to stand up and be heard. We need to fight for what is right. Our numbers are too large to be ignored any longer. We need a protest. Iím not sure how to get it started, but Iíd like to be involved.
    Judging from MBOSC's recent success, I think we need both approaches. Marin is probably different to some degree, but I think we need to both be good and self-enforce to gain respect and form relationships. But absolutely like you say, we need to stand up and demand sensible land management policies that take us into account. I think the single greatest factor that moved the Santa Cruz council to allow bikes on the new proposed trail through Pogonip was the numbers and diversity of supporters. We far outweighed the opposition there. Everyone should be on MCBC's and Access4Bikes membership roster, and should be actively writing land management agencies whenever there is a need to show support or oppose a policy. It's a numbers game. These people serve the public - that is their job. If they realize the vast majority of the public supports something, they have to resign themselves to get behind it even if they don't agree. This is what I saw SC's mayor do on Tuesday night. He wanted to vote against it, but he had no choice but to vote for it. It was an awesome and empowering thing to see. People power.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I admit to being biased, but I think most of the pro-mtb comments sound pretty rational, and like likes of John Parulis & Mike Vandman sound like wack-jobs. I donít think our ignoring them is getting us anywhere. Frankly, I think some volatility, along with the large number of comments is good for our position with Marin IJ. I believe most of the related articles in the IJ have been more biased against us, than for. Maybe thatís because most of the feedback they get on articles such as this have been against us. Thereís no doubt they keep a tally. The traffic to these pages are what sells ads for them, right? Maybe as they see a larger number of their audience shifting toward pro-mtb, they will cater more to us.

    I got heavily involved in advocacy about 10 years ago, thinking I could make a difference. I spent a couple of years beating my head against a wall, until I became disgruntled and disenfranchised. Ultimately, I gave up, deciding I was better off just trying to fly under the radar, quietly poaching singletrack. Nothing has changed in 10 years. How long have they been saying, ďWell, weíre talking about opening Billís TrailĒ?

    I felt optimistic when I saw MCBC get involved. However, when I heard their mantra was to be good and self-enforce, I lost hope. Thatís what we were preaching 10 years ago. We need to stand up and be heard. We need to fight for what is right. Our numbers are too large to be ignored any longer. We need a protest. Iím not sure how to get it started, but Iíd like to be involved.
    Occupy Single Track

  24. #24
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    I hear your pain, but I don't feel it anymore.

    I laugh every time someone thinks they are going to outwork trailclosers. I quit the the fight in 1994. Now I just ride. I am respectful and silent when yelled at. Doesn't even phase me anymore. Just ride! Good luck to you fighting the good fight to open trails, I am impressed with your effort. Poacher, OUT!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    I laugh every time someone thinks they are going to outwork trailclosers. I quit the the fight in 1994. Now I just ride. I am respectful and silent when yelled at. Doesn't even phase me anymore. Just ride! Good luck to you fighting the good fight to open trails, I am impressed with your effort. Poacher, OUT!
    +1!
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    I laugh every time someone thinks they are going to outwork trailclosers. I quit the the fight in 1994. Now I just ride. I am respectful and silent when yelled at. Doesn't even phase me anymore. Just ride! Good luck to you fighting the good fight to open trails, I am impressed with your effort. Poacher, OUT!
    That's funny! In 1994 I started building Tamarancho.

    I guess you gotta do wahat you gotta do

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