Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    My intent for this thread is to provide a mtbr.com user-based clearinghouse for Endor timed run data, to fill the void left by the popular GPS and cell+GPS timing systems' technological limitations. Simple as that. I am not the boss of the internets, nor even the boss of this thread, but I'd like to ask other users to follow a few guidelines.

    1) This thread isn't for discussing or arguing about the popular GPS and cell+GPS timing systems' technological limitations. I realize many folks have invested financially and emotionally in the metrics provided by Garmin, Strava, etc., but the overwhelming evidence supports a conclusion that they are simply too inaccurate on Endor to be meaningful. This can and has been discussed in other worthwhile threads.

    2) This is citizen science and it's on the honor system. You can lie, you can post links of clips from cartoons (I have a couple in my pocket for when this thread goes down in flames), but I ask you to be honest or just ignore this whole experiment and read the other great threads in the Norcal forum. A nice data set with good data integrity will really be helpful to some people. I can't stress this enough--Garmin's and Strava's concept is great, they just can't provide the goods. But you can contribute sound numbers to this hand-made "leaderboard," or just read it as it develops.

    3) GPS and cell+GPS times are allowed. Stop-watches, cyclocomputers, or lap-timers are preferred, and I'll be honest, everyone who posts GPS-derived times is just building the case against those data, but whatever, we will see. It's citizen science. Please include the tool used (e.g. stop-watch, Garmin) with the time posted.

    4) There is no way to troll-proof this thread, but let me say briefly that I am an Endor volunteer, a guy who loves mountain biking, a Cat 2 mid-packer with no illusions of grandeur, and have worked as a technician or researcher for a couple very good labs doing very good work in ecology, evolution, and behavior. I measure things for a living, is what I'm getting at. I do statistics. I think the world is a little bit better place when people believe things that are true, and are given the cognitive tools to get at truth. I know reliable metrics help me enjoy cycling more. I'm not waging a jihad on your Strava PRs or stroking my own ego. I'm going to post my own times, and they are going to be smashed.

    Let's get this rolling. Thanks a million to everyone who made Endor happen, and to those who continue to support and maintain it. Rock on!

  2. #2
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    OK riders, random start. Riders ready. Watch the gate. Beep-beep-beep-beeeeeeep!
    Please post your time (min:sec) and a brief description of the tool used to measure (e.g. stop-watch, Garmin). Please have fun. The 'official' start is pointing down-trail at the very top of the staging area, shown.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-flow_trail_start.jpg  


  3. #3
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    02:53 stop-watch

    A beer in Fairfax for the next person who goes faster on the condition that you do the same for the next that goes faster than you?

  4. #4
    pvd
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    I have 10 runs on GPS that I haven't even tried to figure a time from. Total waste of time.

    I will be doing runs on Sunday morning with a stopwatch and I'll post them here. Stopwatch/honor is the only way to go.

  5. #5
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    Not to be a spoiler, but is encouraging racing down a public trail and posting about it online a good thing?
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  6. #6
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    I thought the tone of the "original" Flow Tr "Poach Perp" thread was "STARVE be dammed!?!?!" Except for identifying who it was that is.......
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Not to be a spoiler, but is encouraging racing down a public trail and posting about it online a good thing?
    I don't see it as a problem if the individuals involved are not a$$e$ on their runs. If someone performs a run down Endor and comes across another rider then that's the "brakes" and they need to deal with it. Blowing past, yelling, etc., at a slower rider is not wanted and not what Endor is about IMO.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Not to be a spoiler, but is encouraging racing down a public trail and posting about it online a good thing?
    I think you raise good points, but in this case, the trail is private, not public. It is bicycle-only downhill-only. It's a close as you can get to closed-course without organizing an official race. I would say this is one of the very very few contexts in which a 'race' like Strava claims to provide is appropriate. That's my take anyway.

    Riders are already pinning it down this trail. I only want to help provide a some simple benchmarks for how fast different people are going. Flow is subjective, but the clock also can add something. Cheers!

  9. #9
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    one mississippi, two mississippi, three mississippi......
    I don't rattle.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    I think you raise good points, but in this case, the trail is private, not public. It is bicycle-only downhill-only. It's a close as you can get to closed-course without organizing an official race. I would say this is one of the very very few contexts in which a 'race' like Strava claims to provide is appropriate. That's my take anyway.

    Riders are already pinning it down this trail. I only want to help provide a some simple benchmarks for how fast different people are going. Flow is subjective, but the clock also can add something. Cheers!
    You guys know best. I love to pin it as much as the next time, I'm just a little worried that some overly enthusiast rider rides over his (it would be a guy, women are smarter) head and hurt himself in the process. But as long as the boy scouts are okay with what is essentially open racing on their land, it should be fine.

    At any rate, I'm looking forward to going up to Marin to try it out someday soon.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  11. #11
    pvd
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    It's NOT racing. It's timing your run to track your training progress. All good athletes do that.

  12. #12
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    Is there a speed limit in Tamarancho?

    Searching the web turns up nothing about any hard rules. No hours of operation. Nothing about helmets. Rather unique in this day and age.

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    One last thing and then I'm out of the thread (until I beat my posted time):

    I don't represent anyone here. If Dan Forer, Jim Jacobsen, Davey Simon, Marin BSA, or any stakeholder thinks that I am somehow encouraging bad behavior, then I'll immediately ask FC to kill this thread. I will only argue, in advance, that what happens on mtbr isn't affecting the riding that is taking place in real life. This is strictly documentation of what's already going on. I have full faith in the community that no one is going to pull some dangerous pass or act inappropriately for bragging rights in an honor-system, online data-logging effort. Full faith. Don't disappoint me.

  14. #14
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    No disrespect but this smells like an ego stroke thread to me. I say just ride and have you all some fun...but whatever. It's a rad trail!

    (Full disclosure: I am guilty of starting the same type of thing on Braille about 10-15 years back on MTBR trail pages...I was the only one who posted a time...and yes, I did it to stroke my ego)
    Last edited by squashyo; 05-09-2013 at 01:14 PM. Reason: words
    I'm not sure how this works.

  15. #15
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    Dramarancho Blow Fail?!

    (sorry, just testing out a rhyming app)

    Maybe there's too many Endorphins up there?

    (I'll just stop)



    I won't post again until I crack the podium on Braille!
    Last edited by dirtvert; 05-09-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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  16. #16
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    I can Kessel Run in 12 parsecs, so Endor is probably 15.3.

  17. #17
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    seriously? I don't think we need this thread.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    It's NOT racing. It's timing your run to track your training progress. All good athletes do that.
    I disagree; it is racing. This venue, however, does not require that you be a good athlete. In fact it requires little qualification except to buy a pass.

    FWIW, I share Zorg's concerns but it doesn't matter.
    I don't rattle.

  19. #19
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    meh....this thread is just another way of stating 'damn straight I can beat your butt down that hill'...

    Personally I find it WAY more fun to do that in person as opposed to dorking it up online....but that's just me.

    Have fun - don't squash anyone....or become a rag-dolling lawn dart please
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    No disrespect but this smells like an ego stroke thread to me. I say just ride and have you all some fun...but whatever. It's a rad trail!

    (Full disclosure: I am guilty of starting the same type of thing on Braille about 10-15 years back on MTBR trail pages...I was the only one who posted a time...and yes, I did it to stroke my ego)
    True, but you don't have to participate. I'm gonna keep my (lame ass drive like a granny) times to myself. Heck, I probably won't even time it beyond the inaccuracies of Strava/GPS. I care a little, but not so much to bother with a stopwatch... pretty much for just self-improvement training purposes.

  22. #22
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    This is such a bad idea... "Racing" on a trail that is mixed use, in terms of people's ultimate goals for that day and especially on a new trail that everybody wants to ride and NOT everybody wants to race, is bound to cause some problems. I'm not saying to not go fast... Just saying that posting a "beat this time" thread is probably not the best thing to do since it's taking that one extra step to promoting bad behavior on the trail... At least that's just my opinion.

    And just to be clear... Go fast, have fun, but most importantly don't assume everybody else is racing.

  23. #23
    Cam
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    Style counts more than speed on Endor.

  24. #24
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Personally I like the idea. So far interest in the trail has been super high. IMHO The point of the trail is to help riders learn new things. My main interest was to help the youth learn to ride a modern downhill trail. If people want to learn to ride the trail and work on jumping, riding faster or riding features like berms it is all there.

    Side note: The only reason I don't like Strava is that is collects data on the location of unsanctioned trails, frequency of use of no bike trails by cyclists, records illegal activity and has caused incidents of irresponsible behavior on multi use trails and roads (that has resulted in at least one fatality that I know of). None of these problems apply to Endor. It is downhill one way for a reason.

    I will admit I was a little disappointed with riders immediately going as fast as they could down the trail. It was kind of like they were missing the point. I feel personally that I have had the most fun riding the trail without peddling. I have a ton of suggestions but I will just leave everyone with an observation: I have learned to jump with much more control and maybe even a bit of style since I have regularly started riding Endor. None of that is due to riding fast, fast riding comes when I have learned bike control.

    Jim and Sandor worked really hard to get the water system in order to protect the berms. The trail condition improved during the 15 days I was in town and now I think that Endor should hold up just fine. Just keep in mind if you shred the trail really hard it would be cool if you became part of the community of guys that help out too. I promise that helping out around Endor will make you faster.

    Snfoilhat would agree I think. He has helped out a lot.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by somanygoodbikes View Post
    Is there a speed limit in Tamarancho?

    Searching the web turns up nothing about any hard rules. No hours of operation. Nothing about helmets. Rather unique in this day and age.
    Pretty cool huh?

  26. #26
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    Not sure if I missed it above, but I think the first thing needs to be a determination of the start point of the trail for timing purposes. Is it the trail connection with B17, the first tree, or the first flat switchback before the trail starts to flow?

    Nice Davey, agreed. The trail is more fun to just flow, work on technique, notice less braking and feeling yourself getting faster through the slow sections rather than shredding it as hard as possible. Plus, if you are trying to set your best its probably going to be your 2nd or 3rd lap of the day anyway, so practicing is worth it.

    On a strava note, Strava is making some changes to how much data they use for segments. Right now if say you cross a start and finish point of a loop, sometimes strava picks you up as having done the whole thing.

    Not sure if their changes will affect the accuracy of segments like Endor, but wanted to let people know about it.

    I'm at 1:40 - 2:20 depending on which strava segment I am looking at. Will lap time it on my garmin next time, think I'm right around 2:10 from B17 to the fireroad, based on memory of past timings.

    Be safe out there kids.

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    Ulterior Motives Brought to Light

    I thought this thread would move more slowly.

    Snfoilhat

    One last thing and then I'm out of the thread
    Quiet you! (me)


    This is such a bad idea... "Racing" on a trail that is mixed use, in terms of people's ultimate goals for that day and especially on a new trail that everybody wants to ride and NOT everybody wants to race, is bound to cause some problems. I'm not saying to not go fast... Just saying that posting a "beat this time" thread is probably not the best thing to do since it's taking that one extra step to promoting bad behavior on the trail... At least that's just my opinion.

    And just to be clear... Go fast, have fun, but most importantly don't assume everybody else is racing.
    Ulterior motive #1
    Think! The trail is one direction, zero intersections, one rider at a time. A person's motivations on any given run are completely irrelevant! What bad behavior? Don't just recycle generic anti-Strava arguments. Think it through. What behavior might be problematic, and how does this thread make that or those behavior(s) more probable?

    If anything, a rider staged and ready to pin it will give the rider ahead an extra minute to reduce the likelihood of catching them. Whether or not they are timing the run. The metaphor "race" is causing you to talk about things that aren't even happening (multiple riders interacting while on course, for example). The reality of Endor is right there during daylight hours every day for anyone with a valid pass. It can be observed. The heavy reliance in these arguments on speculation/extrapolation/inference is... unneccessary.


    1:40

    Ulterior motive #2
    Not very ulterior. It's in the first post. I was going to take the next couple days to dig up a good layman's explanation for why when you have a bunch of measurements, you can't take the 'obviously' low ones (e.g. < 02:00) and 'obviously' high ones (e.g. > 05:00) and say "Hey, my device makes mistakes sometimes, so I'll throw these out, but numbers in the 02:00 - 04:00 range, that's more reasonable, so I'll assume they are OK." It's invalid. But explaining why is complicated.

    But that topic has to come after the remedial math. Numbers can be very convincing, and our toys put out a lot of numbers. One can't be totally credulous. A little critical thinking is essential.
    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-example_01.png

    Where Endor's length is about 0.78 mi. and a minute-forty is 0.0278 hr.

    Everyone here knows or can figure out how ludicrously fast a person would have to ride to average 28MPH on a course with so many 180 degree turns and such short straights. Then why would anyone (several people in multiple threads; this is the farthest thing from a personal criticism) claim 1:40? But seeing the time (1:40) on the phone/web shorts out that high school math part of the brain. Trickier is the part of the mind that says "I'm not credulous, I take all this with a grain of salt." OK, but then why did you remember a junk number, why did you repeat a junk number? This psychological stuff is outside the scope, but worth a little introspection, no?

    Anyhoo, have fun! The trail is in great shape. People are coming from all over to ride it, and it's all smiles and positive words at the top and the bottom--and that's a direct observation.
    -Matt Snfoilhat

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    I really don't know what thread "we need." This is the best I've got, fellow users. Happier?


  29. #29
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    badidearacing.com. Should focus on fun, pedaling less, ayer and flowww.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Not to be a spoiler, but is encouraging racing down a public trail and posting about it online a good thing?
    As a downhill specific trail, what are your concerns about it? I'm being serious here, I don't see it but I miss stuff sometimes
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post

    Ulterior motive #1
    Think! The trail is one direction, zero intersections, one rider at a time. A person's motivations on any given run are completely irrelevant! What bad behavior? Don't just recycle generic anti-Strava arguments. Think it through. What behavior might be problematic, and how does this thread make that or those behavior(s) more probable?

    If anything, a rider staged and ready to pin it will give the rider ahead an extra minute to reduce the likelihood of catching them. Whether or not they are timing the run. The metaphor "race" is causing you to talk about things that aren't even happening (multiple riders interacting while on course, for example). The reality of Endor is right there during daylight hours every day for anyone with a valid pass. It can be observed. The heavy reliance in these arguments on speculation/extrapolation/inference is... unneccessary.

    -Matt Snfoilhat
    If you have a popular trail, which is also a limited resource, and you have riders of all skill levels and motivations on that trail, wouldn't publicly posting a challenge thread on MTBR motivate some of those that are already pre-disposed to pinn it to pinn it even more? If you put enough of these people on the trail, with other riders who are there not to pin it but just to ride it, wouldn't you at some point have a problem because somebody got in the way of somebody else's best time ever...

    I'm not saying that this has happened but I have been up there and depending on the day, there can be all manner of people on that trail - old, slow, fast, young, newbie, pro, etc. - , which is the AWESOME thing about this trail in that anybody can enjoy it- and it can be a bad mix if you also have people gunning for that extra second just so that they can post it up to MTBR. Some people might take it too seriously and so why fan the flames? I mean, what does somebody really win if they have the fastest publicly posted time on that trail?

  32. #32
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    So will there be riders flying down the trail yelling "MTBR!!!"



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  33. #33
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by sfmtber View Post
    If you have a popular trail, which is also a limited resource, and you have riders of all skill levels and motivations on that trail, wouldn't publicly posting a challenge thread on MTBR motivate some of those that are already pre-disposed to pinn it to pinn it even more? If you put enough of these people on the trail, with other riders who are there not to pin it but just to ride it, wouldn't you at some point have a problem because somebody got in the way of somebody else's best time ever...

    I'm not saying that this has happened but I have been up there and depending on the day, there can be all manner of people on that trail - old, slow, fast, young, newbie, pro, etc. - , which is the AWESOME thing about this trail in that anybody can enjoy it- and it can be a bad mix if you also have people gunning for that extra second just so that they can post it up to MTBR. Some people might take it too seriously and so why fan the flames? I mean, what does somebody really win if they have the fastest publicly posted time on that trail?
    I think as long as people are cool with the fact they can be back at the top in 10 minutes and do it over (likely faster than last time) it won't matter.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaro View Post
    As a downhill specific trail, what are your concerns about it? I'm being serious here, I don't see it but I miss stuff sometimes
    I can think of lots of concerns! The more that people push themselves on the trail, the higher the likelihood of smashing into trees--or newbs or little kids. If enough people have to be rescued, it puts pressure on the landowners to alter/close it, right?

    I used to run competitively, and I've done a few bike races, so I get the focus on time. But, really, it's just training, and you're probably never going to have an actual race on a course like that--so why not just keep it personal?

    Francis nailed it: Fun first! (I wonder if you could measure total air time?!)

    I think the OP is overthinking this, but probably so are most of the responses--including mine.
    Last edited by dirtvert; 05-10-2013 at 11:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I think as long as people are cool with the fact they can be back at the top in 10 minutes and do it over (likely faster than last time) it won't matter.
    Yep, I agree. Only time will tell what happens in real life. I was just offering my opinion on why this kind of thread is a bad idea. But that's all it is... An opinion on the internets...

  36. #36
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    Ride it like this! Not time trial.

    from remer on Vimeo.

    In the words of the late great Johnny Cash.... I hear a train a comin', it's rollin' 'round the bend.

    This is a quick edit of an "After Work Party" on the Whoops trail in Bend, Oregon. This was shot and edited in about 2 hours in the fall of 2008.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfmtber View Post
    I mean, what does somebody really win if they have the fastest publicly posted time on that trail?
    They win nothing. I figure that would be clear to anyone at the outset, and it's precisely that why all the crazy worst-case scenarios people have imagined while posting to this thread won't happen.

    There is already more than one internet-based public-ish timing system that hundreds of people are using every day: STRAVA et al. Way way way more users than the people reading this thread.

    But Strava (to protect their brand) has a few policies that make the times shown online useless for training or 'racing' or anything other than make-believe.

    So this thread's one and only purpose is to collect times where the fake ones can be thrown out. Nothing more.

    Do people really think that chasing after the "Some dude on mtbr.com's little 'Strava is lying' so I used a watch to show I went 2 min on Endor!" title is going to alter how riders act on a trail?

    I think you are all coming from a thoughtful, caring (about safety, trail-access, general MTB well-being) place. I think online forums play a good role in real-life communties by bringing way more people together to talk than would fit at the trailhead face-to-face. Y'all are OK by me, else I wouldn't read this board. But I want to say I think more than half of what's been posted in the last couple days is absurd.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    They win nothing.
    The offer of a tasty beverage enjoyed in the company of a new acquaintance to the next to post the fastest time does stand, though. Looks like PVD is the only one going after it.

    This is for fun, people.

  39. #39
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    Putting on my coaching/training hat, standing on this ephemeral soapbox

    Since so many people are so interested in this trail and discussions around it, here's a tip.

    There is a lot of pretty cool and positive but also kind of vague/bro talk about flow and style. Here's why counting seconds matters.

    On a pump track, there are hundreds of small, roughly equal interactions between rider-bike-ground. It's not like DH where a couple difficult corners, a monster rock garden, and whether you have the guts to take the pro line are the few places where your skill will be more strongly tested than the 'easier' parts of the track. Or like XC where one particular climb might be the deciding factor in a race. Or like 4X where winning the sprint to the first turn can be winning the race.

    Every face you unweight, every backside you catch and pump, every application of the brakes you don't lock the wheel (no skidding!) or over brake, every single turn where you hit it right (where you flow) will be reflected in a little more speed and in a little less time. Multiply that by the hundreds of these small events. It still only adds up to 5-15 seconds between a mediocre run and an inspired one.

    I saw a couple guys sessioning the top yesterday to learn how to double-double the really tricky rhythm after the S-curve thats like a 6-pack stepping down into a right-hander. That is like the 99th percentile for Endor riders. Most of us are working on the basics. And unless you have a coach watching you throughout a run, the very best way to help one to work on the basics is to be able to see that after a week or whatever you have taken 5s off your run time. Which a GPS can't do. The resolution simply isn't there. On a pump track, flow makes you faster. And these jumps are honestly too small for style to play a big role.

  40. #40
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    flow and style....loose the stopwatch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    They win nothing. I figure that would be clear to anyone at the outset, and it's precisely that why all the crazy worst-case scenarios people have imagined while posting to this thread won't happen
    You also can't guarantee that this -worst-case scenario- won't happen. Maybe it won't. And actually, it'll all probably be cool because most people are sane and keep things in perspective.

    BUT...there is a very small minority (tiny probably) of riders that do take these things seriously, for whatever reason, and although that type of person may still cause an issue regardless of whether this thread exists or doesn't exist, why throw out an internet challenge, which is what the start of this thread amounts to? For a non-existent race? And a non-existent prize?

    It just seems like a bad idea to me... But whatever... Do what you want. Have fun, go fast, and enjoy the trail.

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    By the way... I'm in no way saying that you shouldn't time yourself. Have at it! I'm just saying it's a bad idea to post a "beat this time" thread on a public forum for a trail that is extremely popular with all level of riders.

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    In the spirit of full disclosure, I may, or may not, have created a DH segment on Strava. And I may, or may not, have ridden that segment a little faster than the average Joe. The Strav******* in me subsided, I stopped caring and I now just enjoy the ride. Point is that we are all probably subject to the same competitive demons, and I don't think that an invitation to race a public trail is a recipe for long term success. Enjoy the flow and have fun.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

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    I remembered it. Cool vid. Cracked up at the credits: Catering, make-up and Kirt's "assistant".
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    In the spirit of full disclosure, I may, or may not, have created a DH segment on Strava. And I may, or may not, have ridden that segment a little faster than the average Joe. The Strav******* in me subsided, I stopped caring and I now just enjoy the ride. Point is that we are all probably subject to the same competitive demons, and I don't think that an invitation to race a public trail is a recipe for long term success. Enjoy the flow and have fun.
    It wasn't until I started riding DH that I learned the following: there will always be another run or another day to ride my favorite section of trail as fast as I can. I think I was doing laps of Live Wire at Northstar and I caught someone that wasn't going as fast as I was. I knew I could just take the chair back to the top. No biggie and suddenly it hit me. I didn't care about passing or getting to the chair any faster. I would get there when I got there and it didn't really matter when. Mostly because it was so dang easy to get back to the top and do it again, likely better than last time.

    My hope is that riders using Endor will feel the same way. It is about a 10 minute push or ride to the top. No biggie. Catch someone? No problem. Chill out and wait to do it over again.

    Am I a little bit worried about a possible injury due to going super fast? Yes, but I still feel in many ways this trail is safer than much of the Tamarancho loop in particular much safer than Wagon Wheel.

    I am actually far more concerned with riders going too fast on Porcupine or Whites Hill Trail back to Whites Hill and scaring some hikers or worse a horse. If I could make a deal with everyone and say go as fast as you want on Endor and put a foot down for hikers on Porcupine I would in a second.

    Have fun out there and remember the trail is to teach all of us gravity noobs (myself included) the techniques and skills to ride rollers, berms and hopefully doubles. I really enjoy that the trail can be ridden faster with no pedals than frantically pedaling the rollers. Also the social interactions up there are really good. The DH guys and XC guys are mixing it up in a good way. Everyone has been friendly and cool.

    I am proud of the mountain bike community for coming together and making a .8 mile section of trail. If we work together maybe we will make more trails or a bike park or a BMX track. I sure hope so.

  46. #46
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    2:49.06

    5/12/13
    Manual timed run results:
    Gated at [email protected]
    Run 1: 2:52.03 - No eye protection, bad start gearing, pedal run
    Run 2: 2:50.10 - Glasses on, better start gear, forcing it, pedal run
    Run 3: 2:50.17 - Felt faster, wasn't, pedal run
    Run 4: 2:51.39 - Pedal start, felt fun, flow run
    Run 5: 3:36.92 - Leading a slower rider, lots of slowing down
    Run 6: no time - Timer didn't start. Crashed just coming off trail. Felt fast
    Run 7: 2:56.88 - One near crash in the big woops. One trickey pass. flow run
    Run 8: 2:49.06 - Pushed hard, fastest run. Pedal run

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Run 8: 2:49.06 - Pushed hard, fastest run. Pedal run
    Nice! Cracked the 2:40s!

  48. #48
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs



    I'm out of town but got this from Allen D.

    The guy whose wheel I struggle to follow on the regular.

    2:45 up in here!

  49. #49
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    Four seconds faster! I'm going to have to put on some big boy pants to beat that. Good work.

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    Yeah Allen!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Four seconds faster! I'm going to have to put on some big boy pants to beat that. Good work.
    Or build an even more custom bike.

  52. #52
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    So we rode Flow yesterday for the first time and have to say it was so worth the trip up from San Jose. Tamarancho is ok, we have similar stuff with STP and Demo so close to us, but Flow was a whole different animal. Everyone from us XC junkies to the guys that love pacifica and North* had a blast. So a big thank you to everyone that made this trail happen. You are heroes in my book.

    As to the topic of this particular thread...

    I understand wanting to see how good you can be on a particular section of trail. I have spent entire days repeating the same loop over and over again trying to find the line that feels the fastest. However I draw the line on actually timing each run and trying to best myself each time. I record the entire ride and then look at it later to see if anything stands out in my mind about one loop over another. On a race course I can definitely see the benefit of recording each run with your time and overall impression of your performance, but Endor isn't a race course. We ran into a really happy individual yesterday who seemed to care more about having a bad run and crashing than actually having fun. When our group asked if he was ok, he wrecked right in front of us, he ignored us. Seemingly pissed off that we were there or perhaps that we had seen him fall. Literally everyone in our group was shocked at how rude he seemed. And all they wanted to do was make sure he wasn't hurt or anything. So to that guy, who ever you are, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG BRO!
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectBomber View Post
    I record the entire ride and then look at it later to see if anything stands out in my mind about one loop over another.
    GPS/Strava doesn't work at the flow trail. You have to manual time or you have nothing.

    Also, not everyone wants to ride slow. Some people want to push themselves and learn to ride faster. You can only do that with metrics.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Or build an even more custom bike.
    It's only the bad craftsman that blames his tools. I'm just not guilty of using the wrong one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    GPS/Strava doesn't work at the flow trail. You have to manual time or you have nothing.

    Also, not everyone wants to ride slow. Some people want to push themselves and learn to ride faster. You can only do that with metrics.
    I get that GPS/Strava doesn't work at flow. I also agree with you that not everyone wants to "ride slow", but I didn't say they did, nor did I say they didn't want to get better. I guess you missed my point, and that's okay. You ride your way and we'll ride ours. We'll both have fun and hopefully no one gets hurt. I guess I just hope, like it seems others that built the trail do, people just remember that riding is supposed to be fun, and not always about who's fastest.
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  56. #56
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    The rider having the most fun wins!

    P

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    The rider having the most fun wins!
    But how do we QUANTIFY that? I don't have a stopwatch, but I'll bring calipers to measure the width of my grin at the end of each run.

  58. #58
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    I think you are right about that man! I'm just confused why you think anyone is worried about who is fastest. I am unaware of a single person on the trail or on the forums who is worried about who is fastest. Your single interaction with someone who wasn't stoked was right after (like seconds after, sounds like) the rider crashed--I'd say you have to cut a guy who just hit the dirt hard some slack. And it's a leap to presume he was worried about the clock, or whatever.

    Even the stop watches have an error of, to throw out a best guess based on variations on the user side, ±2s, so honestly even this trainwreck of a thread is about training, not racing. People keep asking "What's a pretty good time for ______?" where the blank is "a pro", "a decent gravity rider", "someone with at least 100 posts on mtbr", whatever.

    We are slowly (painfully!) fleshing out in like 10s brackets where riders w/ different skills and backgrounds are falling. Now a person with a reasonable, innocent question "Where do I fall in all this?" can get an answer.

    By the end of the month/summer/etc., a second really great question "How have I improved?" will be answerable w/ legit data. No one has to participate, but I think people on their high horses about 'racing is inappropriate' are really out of touch on this one.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    By the end of the month/summer/etc., a second really great question "How have I improved?" will be answerable w/ legit data. No one has to participate, but I think people on their high horses about 'racing is inappropriate' are really out of touch on this one.
    By the end of the summer, I hope to be farther up towards the top right corner of this chart:

    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-030912challengeskill.jpg

  60. #60
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    Word!

    (Lee McCormack's writing has been hugely helpful to my riding. The MTB and the BMX books are priceless, and I am all about bringing more towns into the pump track nation.)

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectBomber View Post
    We ran into a really happy individual yesterday who seemed to care more about having a bad run and crashing than actually having fun. When our group asked if he was ok, he wrecked right in front of us, he ignored us. Seemingly pissed off that we were there or perhaps that we had seen him fall. Literally everyone in our group was shocked at how rude he seemed. And all they wanted to do was make sure he wasn't hurt or anything. So to that guy, who ever you are, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG BRO!
    LOL . . . Welcome to Marin!!!

  62. #62
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    As to this point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    I think you are right about that man! I'm just confused why you think anyone is worried about who is fastest. I am unaware of a single person on the trail or on the forums who is worried about who is fastest. Your single interaction with someone who wasn't stoked was right after (like seconds after, sounds like) the rider crashed--I'd say you have to cut a guy who just hit the dirt hard some slack. And it's a leap to presume he was worried about the clock, or whatever."
    I was there and recognized the bike since the owner has posted it multiple times in this forum. And no, there was no assumption, it was only after there was dead silence for a bit did he starting ranting about how when he went to stop his time he started his watch. So yeah ... it might have been a decent time once the dust settled to reply to a bunch of people asking if you are ok instead of being pissed at your button punching.

    Personally, if I was going to be doing laps for time I wouldn't pick a busy Sunday afternoon, but that's just me. I'm glad none of these guys/gals were riding my ass down the trail.

    On the other hand, it was pretty awesome to meet Juli Furtado and all the women from various cycling publications out on their Julianas.

    The most impressive thing I saw all day was not someone acing the flow trail, but a 70 year old woman out riding with style on her Juliana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnobbyToes View Post
    As to this point:



    I was there and recognized the bike since the owner has posted it multiple times in this forum. And no, there was no assumption, it was only after there was dead silence for a bit did he starting ranting about how when he went to stop his time he started his watch. So yeah ... it might have been a decent time once the dust settled to reply to a bunch of people asking if you are ok instead of being pissed at your button punching.

    Personally, if I was going to be doing laps for time I wouldn't pick a busy Sunday afternoon, but that's just me. I'm glad none of these guys/gals were riding my ass down the trail.

    On the other hand, it was pretty awesome to meet Juli Furtado and all the women from various cycling publications out on their Julianas.

    The most impressive thing I saw all day was not someone acing the flow trail, but a 70 year old woman out riding with style on her Juliana.
    Damn Right! That lady was rockin' it!
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  64. #64
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    I'm glad you shared this story. It needs to be emphasized, not just in some dude spouting rules/advice (which many will filter out), but in stories which grab people's attention.
    All Endor users have to stage at the top with one of two ideas in their heads. Either give the rider ahead a lot (a lot!) of time. Chill out. Make sure your suspension is set to descend. Shift into your starting gear. Deep breath. No hurry.
    Or decide that when you catch the rider ahead you are going to sit down and roll the rest of the trail. Maybe the person ahead of you will hear your brake/freehub/friendly hello and safely move inside on a corner and communicate with the rider behind that a pass is OK. But you have to be prepared to slow. There is no "Track!!" barked out like some XC hothead in a race.

    Endor is so much like a BMX track or public dirt jumps that I wish the two groups of riders had more overlap. You are always responsible for looking out for the young/slow/new/crashed. This is not and never should be N* or Whislter, where a slower guy or gal has in the back of their mind "I'm in the way, I need to be prepared to move over in a second for someone 'better' than me." F that. Maybe it's OK at a resort, but that should never be the culture at Tamarancho.

    Also, the part about the older woman in the group is inspiring. Thanks!

  65. #65
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    Through this little 'experiment', we've already determined that a rider w/ decent pump track skills is getting down in a little under 3 min pinning it. People who are putting up numbers in the 4:00s and 5:00s are for reasons easy to guess at, not in a hurry to put them up in public, but there are plenty of folks in there and that's A-OK.

    One more detail. From my own experience, my pinned lap is only ~10-15s more than my easy-breezy warm up. Not a big difference. People's times are pretty consistent, so all the talk about the perils of going super hard are a little off...

    Anyway, the point is if a rider is going to take about 3 min, and the rider ahead is going to take 4:30, I expect everyone can do the math here.

    Leave before 1:30 gap and you will catch them. But I see people who aren't together (aren't purposefully riding in a train) waiting for one or two corners before leaving. They aren't dumb, they just don't know to wait longer. A minute and a half feels like a lot when you are excited to drop in. It feels like a lot when you know 8 people are in line behind you on a busy Sunday. But it's the simplest, safest way to reduce conflict.

    Go hard on the trail. But be easy on your fellow riders. Good?

  66. #66
    pvd
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    @KnobbyToes

    Of course now I realize that you are talking about me. What you may not realize is that some of us have been playing blood sports for all of our lives and a stupid little crash isn't as important as a time most of the time... or making the trick, or getting away from the cops. I've crashed thousands of times in my life on and in every vehicle that I've ever tried. I've broken tons of helmets and ground down knee pads on dirt, asphalt and concrete. I'm out there for a reason and that's to see red and have an adrenalin fit.

    Maybe it's the first time you've seen what happens on trails when people actually play rough? Guys like me crash hard and get up to finish the ride. I was pissed that I had made the mistake of not getting my run timed because it was so cool that the crash wouldn't have cost much time. I was stoked, I was pissed, I was figuring it out. I was ALIVE. I didn't go there to have mommy pick me up from the dirt. We're different. We have different priorities.

    I wasn't being rude, I was playing the game.

  67. #67
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    I think it is cool everyone is getting what they wanted from the trail. That was exactly the intent. That with a strong emphasis on helping junior riders.

    Do yo' thing yo. Ain't no doin' it wrong

    I was super stoked on the Juliana bit. So cool. At sunshine bikes they now call the trail "field of dreams trail"

    If you build it they will come...

  68. #68
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    I only have garmin edge 500 times from strava (at least its not a cellphone app). Had a 2:40, 2:53, and recently a 2:20. No idea if thats accurate at all. The strava segment is endor complete and accurate, but the KOM is some ridiculous time Like 1:5x or something that doesn't sound possible. I'll try and get a stop watch sometime soon just to see how I compare to you Flow Trail OG's.


  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    @KnobbyToes

    Of course now I realize that you are talking about me. What you may not realize is that some of us have been playing blood sports for all of our lives and a stupid little crash isn't as important as a time most of the time... or making the trick, or getting away from the cops. I've crashed thousands of times in my life on and in every vehicle that I've ever tried. I've broken tons of helmets and ground down knee pads on dirt, asphalt and concrete. I'm out there for a reason and that's to see red and have an adrenalin fit.

    Maybe it's the first time you've seen what happens on trails when people actually play rough? Guys like me crash hard and get up to finish the ride. I was pissed that I had made the mistake of not getting my run timed because it was so cool that the crash wouldn't have cost much time. I was stoked, I was pissed, I was figuring it out. I was ALIVE. I didn't go there to have mommy pick me up from the dirt. We're different. We have different priorities.

    I wasn't being rude, I was playing the game.
    You Go PVD!!
    Push it, Push it real good!
    I dig what your preachin!!
    I gotta get me one of those stopwatch thingys soon!!
    G-Out

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I only have garmin edge 500 times from strava (at least its not a cellphone app). Had a 2:40, 2:53, and recently a 2:20. No idea if thats accurate at all. The strava segment is endor complete and accurate, but the KOM is some ridiculous time Like 1:5x or something that doesn't sound possible. I'll try and get a stop watch sometime soon just to see how I compare to you Flow Trail OG's.

    You're an OG too Yody. Not only do you get it but you have been out there since the beginning. Only a month now

    All of us are OG's. That is what is so cool.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I only have garmin edge 500 times from strava (at least its not a cellphone app). Had a 2:40, 2:53, and recently a 2:20. No idea if thats accurate at all. The strava segment is endor complete and accurate, but the KOM is some ridiculous time Like 1:5x or something that doesn't sound possible. I'll try and get a stop watch sometime soon just to see how I compare to you Flow Trail OG's.

    Sorry to go off topic, but how did you route the hydraulic hose for the Reverb like that? - I can't even see it! I have the same bike & mine is routed along the top tube - there are some issues with this - your method is much better - very cool!

    As long as I'm off topic, I noticed you are running some decent sized knobs on your rear tire - do you notice that when you really rail into a berm at high speed on the flow trail, the rear tire really starts "chattering and shaking " & makes a loud noise? I was running Spec Purgatory rear and thought it was the knobs of the tire catching - so I swapped it for a Spec Fast Trak with minimal knobs - it still does this (although less). I have my rear tire at very pressure and rear suspension very stiff. Anyone else notice this & have any advice?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    Sorry to go off topic, but how did you route the hydraulic hose for the Reverb like that? - I can't even see it! I have the same bike & mine is routed along the top tube - there are some issues with this - your method is much better - very cool!

    As long as I'm off topic, I noticed you are running some decent sized knobs on your rear tire - do you notice that when you really rail into a berm at high speed on the flow trail, the rear tire really starts "chattering and shaking " & makes a loud noise? I was running Spec Purgatory rear and thought it was the knobs of the tire catching - so I swapped it for a Spec Fast Trak with minimal knobs - it still does this (although less). I have my rear tire at very pressure and rear suspension very stiff. Anyone else notice this & have any advice?
    I used a Stealth Reverb and routed the hose out the bottom of the downtube. Tires feel good. Even though the flow trail is pump track like, there are still places where I'm glad to have some traction considering the speeds, and there are some loose sections. The Weirwolf is a pretty fast rolling tire, but the front Minion has much bigger knobs (up front). Sounds like you're running too much air pressurein the tires and too much air in the suspension. I run about 32-35 PSI in the tires and leave my suspension air psi the same, but I dial the compression on the shock and fork to full. For me I like having a platform to push off of for pumping, but honestly its nice having a lil bit of squish on this trail. The only thing that really seems like it could use improvement on my setup is lighter weight and a lower bottom bracket. 6" bike at just under 30 pounds doesn't seem ideal on paper, but you'd be suprised how good it feels. Only a few short sections where it feels like you're pumping as hard as you can but the bike just slows down too much (you can feel it in any of the uphill sections). And I really have to stand on the outside pedal as hard as I can to stay in the berms, especially the really fast ones. A Lower BB would probably make the cornering more effortless. Some of those berms really keep decreasing hard, but they have really wide fast entries. Challenging at speed for sure!

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectBomber View Post
    ... On a race course I can definitely see the benefit of recording each run with your time and overall impression of your performance, but Endor isn't a race course. We ran into a really happy individual yesterday who seemed to care more about having a bad run and crashing than actually having fun. When our group asked if he was ok, he wrecked right in front of us, he ignored us. Seemingly pissed off that we were there or perhaps that we had seen him fall. Literally everyone in our group was shocked at how rude he seemed. And all they wanted to do was make sure he wasn't hurt or anything. So to that guy, who ever you are, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG BRO!

    Self-absorbed behavior...

    Even the fastest/best riders in the world don't act this way.

    fc
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I wasn't being rude, I was playing the game.
    You're out there doing your thing and that's cool, but saying "hi" to fellow riders is a good thing to do as well. It sort of puts everyone at ease since we're all on the same trail.

    I've done a lot of DH racing and its not a bad thing to ask people if they're alright after a stack in practice. It's just people looking out for other people and showing a little empathy. I was out practicing for a fontana dh race one time when Dan Atherton came ripping down and boosted one of those ridiculous lines that only a WC pro can even see. He came up a bit short, blew his feet of his pedals, nutted himself on his top tube and got ejected straight out the front door.

    ...I asked him if he was ok by saying something like "Dude, holy sh*t! Are you ok?" He kind of grinned at me and said "had a bit more balls than brains on that one. ...well, maybe not anymore." Then he headed back up the hill to try it again.

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    You know, I have the KOM on Endor @1:37 I just chose to delete the ride cause my time was soooooo fast that I didn't want to make everyone else feel bad!!!! JK! Seriously though, who really cares what their time is on this trail, it's more about the fun factor, even if your going slow or railing every berm.

    Personally I'm glad Strava doesn't work accurately on Endor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rednova75 View Post
    You know, I have the KOM on Endor @1:37 I just chose to delete the ride cause my time was soooooo fast that I didn't want to make everyone else feel bad!!!! JK! Seriously though, who really cares what their time is on this trail, it's more about the fun factor, even if your going slow or railing every berm.

    Personally I'm glad Strava doesn't work accurately on Endor.
    Dude you are the KOM of MASSIVE LADDER DROPS!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rednova75 View Post
    Seriously though, who really cares what their time is on this trail...
    The slow guys don't. That's for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    The slow guys don't. That's for sure.
    Quienes mas macho?
    I'm not sure how this works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Quienes mas macho?
    Aqui! Yo soy muy macho...alas.. I'm also muy huevon so I haven't put a time down yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    The slow guys don't. That's for sure.
    lol funny but considering your times you posted you might be in that group :twofinger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    lol funny but considering your times you posted you might be in that group :twofinger
    oooooooh!

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    Only a few folks have put times up. I know I'm not the fastest guy I know but we aren't seeing many folks showing anything at all. Interesting that the 'times don't matter' crowd haven't posted their 4:00+ times. I would think that if the times didn't matter that they'd be able to put up a slow time with pride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Only a few folks have put times up. I know I'm not the fastest guy I know but we aren't seeing many folks showing anything at all. Interesting that the 'times don't matter' crowd haven't posted their 4:00+ times. I would think that if the times didn't matter that they'd be able to put up a slow time with pride.
    Honestly, I think it's because most here really don't give a shit.
    I'm not sure how this works.

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    ...I'm just here to see how this train wreck transpires. It is a very macho thread though.
    I'm not sure how this works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Only a few folks have put times up. I know I'm not the fastest guy I know but we aren't seeing many folks showing anything at all. Interesting that the 'times don't matter' crowd haven't posted their 4:00+ times. I would think that if the times didn't matter that they'd be able to put up a slow time with pride.
    Nah you're times are good and I was just trolling on you. Thought it was pretty funny to be honest, but at the same time you do come off as pretty aggressive. Out there crashing with your stop watch on your custom made bike. Roasting these poor slow mtbr folks (lol just kidding guys). Talking about how you crash everything, no big deal. I guess you just come from a different walk of life. I won't say I'm negative free, but sometimes its good to remind yourself among all the competition is too have fun and not always be pressure-driven when riding. These guys are wondering why you are riding with so much pressure over your head, for them that would take the fun out of it.. Its two worlds coliding in this thread and nobody is understanding the others idea of fun. I understand both ways, but I try and keep the negativity away. In fact its not that hard because riding is just so much fun. Can't believe you crashed, and all were worried about was your stop watch and you didn't even say anthing to those guys. Common now, try and have a little fun on the way down the flow trail. Don't get me wrong, next ride out there I will bring a stop watch, I'm all results driven as well, and every ride turns into some sort of practice. I love the feeling of getting better and going fast. I'm glad this thread was brought up, I'm interested to see how I compare

    Its like motorcycle trackdays and laptimers Some people ride way too aggressively and end up crashing, chasing a lap time, these are usually the intermediate riders who think they are fast but have no experience and aren't very good. When the actual fast guys use the timer as a reference/tool and are able to go out and ride without "seeing red" and put down really fast times and rarely ever crash. They are courteous to other riders, are not reckless, and are typically pretty nice dudes. Where the Over savvy B/A grouper with his laptimer and selfish riding style tend to be a crash waiting to happen and act selfish and douchey in the pits, typically don't take responsibility for their crashes. Not saying you're the latter but thats how people are perceiving you.
    Last edited by Yody; 05-15-2013 at 05:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Only a few folks have put times up. I know I'm not the fastest guy I know but we aren't seeing many folks showing anything at all. Interesting that the 'times don't matter' crowd haven't posted their 4:00+ times. I would think that if the times didn't matter that they'd be able to put up a slow time with pride.
    call me crazy but maybe it's because the "times don't matter" crowd, which I'm a proud member of, aren't actually timing themselves. but maybe I'll time how fast i can water a couple of berms and I'll post that... :-) (the key is to use the portable sprayer)

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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Honestly, I think it's because most here really don't give a shit.
    +1

    The big boy playtime no mommies picking anyone up from the dirt, I've crashed so many times and need my adrenalin post was a bit over the top too.
    Last edited by three3nine; 05-17-2013 at 09:09 PM.

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    I think there are two very different cultures bumping heads here, and it's not racers vs. stylers or good guys vs. dbags or fast vs. slow or the other lines being drawn in the sand.

    There are the many--many!!!--people who are riding the trail, shooting the shit with yours truly and the other riders chilling at the top of Endor, and saying stuff like

    "Is your Strava running?" "What's a good lap time?" blahblahGarminblah and a hundred permutations of these.

    Then there are people who are not saying that. They don't give a hoot about Strava, Garmin, lap times, or whatever.

    When I started this thread, I was very, achingly clear about how if you were in the first group, we (MTBR posting Endor riders) were going to help to answer and have a little fun doing it.

    For the many rad, fun, insightful MTBRers in this thread with whom I truly hope to share a lap at Demo or Endor or wherever, is it any surprise that this thread is boring to you when you belong to the second group? You don't give a hoot about Strava, Garmin, lap times, or whatever.

    They built you a trail! Go ride it! Why talk smack in some thread? I just don't get it.

    Get out and ride. Seriously.

    Also get out and sweep. My arms are killing me and it's reducing my already slim chances of beating Allen's time

    Matt

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    Heh, I'm not going to bother timing myself because strava doesn't work out there and I have no motivation to purchase a lap timer when I can spend my money on lots of beer instead.

    However!!!!! This thread is not boring because people are posting all aggressively and stuff. Personally I refuse to believe the times until people start posting helmet cam runs of your awesomest times. Then and only then will we know the truth (and have rad video).

    Also, I refuse to believe you didn't break into tears and have someone call the amberlamps when you crashed and skinned your elbow until you post a video showing that you DGAFed the whole situation, ignored the trail nannys and posted up an epic time. Then and only then will we know the truth (and have rad video).

    Until then, you guys are just fartin in the wind.

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    ^^ Amen! This thread has certainly been useful for flushing out the Endorks.

    (feel free to use that)

    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  92. #92
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    Is this in the budget? Maybe you can get Charlie Kelly up there to show you how it done?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    Heh, I'm not going to bother timing myself because strava doesn't work out there and I have no motivation to purchase a lap timer when I can spend my money on lots of beer instead.

    However!!!!! This thread is not boring because people are posting all aggressively and stuff. Personally I refuse to believe the times until people start posting helmet cam runs of your awesomest times. Then and only then will we know the truth (and have rad video).

    Also, I refuse to believe you didn't break into tears and have someone call the amberlamps when you crashed and skinned your elbow until you post a video showing that you DGAFed the whole situation, ignored the trail nannys and posted up an epic time. Then and only then will we know the truth (and have rad video).

    Until then, you guys are just fartin in the wind.
    Well the first time I saw PVD out there was when he was building trail.

    The second time was when he was building trail.

    and he has been out a few times building trail when I was out of town.

    (So don't be pickin' on my homie)

    The 3rd time was when he was riding out there. And the dude was really riding. I mean going so hard. Down the trail, then hammering back up to the top. Then I would see him again (I was watering berms all day) and he would come by with dirt all over and blood. Man a lot of blood. He wasn't even bothered by it. He was just frothing. 8 times he rode by and he was just going for it.

    And well, lets just say if we get invaded by gnarly aliens that eat people I'm going over to PVD's house.

    Waaaambulance is not in PVD's vocabulary.

    But hey. I go up there to listen to birds, be outside, ride bikes, talk to people and encourage them to help out, build support for a pump track and lots of other stuff.

    To each his own I say. Timers on or off. Have fun. Be nice.

    The community built a cool trail and we can do whatever we want.

    Just remember trail Jesus is always watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Well the first time I saw PVD out there was when he was building trail.

    The second time was when he was building trail.

    and he has been out a few times building trail when I was out of town.

    (So don't be pickin' on my homie)

    The 3rd time was when he was riding out there. And the dude was really riding. I mean going so hard. Down the trail, then hammering back up to the top. Then I would see him again (I was watering berms all day) and he would come by with dirt all over and blood. Man a lot of blood. He wasn't even bothered by it. He was just frothing. 8 times he rode by and he was just going for it.

    And well, lets just say if we get invaded by gnarly aliens that eat people I'm going over to PVD's house.

    Waaaambulance is not in PVD's vocabulary.

    But hey. I go up there to listen to birds, be outside, ride bikes, talk to people and encourage them to help out, build support for a pump track and lots of other stuff.

    To each his own I say. Timers on or off. Have fun. Be nice.

    The community built a cool trail and we can do whatever we want.

    Just remember trail Jesus is always watching.
    Davey-

    Dude, bro, you're completely undermining my attempts at getting more footage of this trail for me to watch by diffusing my inflammatory comments. Also, everyone loves a good crash vid. I have a few great ones of my own but none on this trail for me to post because I live two and a half hours away.

    I will say though, I love the idea of people calling mountain biking a blood sport because it makes me feel like Jean-Claude Van Damme when I ride my bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    Davey-

    Dude, bro, you're completely undermining my attempts at getting more footage of this trail for me to watch by diffusing my inflammatory comments. Also, everyone loves a good crash vid. I have a few great ones of my own but none on this trail for me to post because I live two and a half hours away.

    I will say though, I love the idea of people calling mountain biking a blood sport because it makes me feel like Jean-Claude Van Damme when I ride my bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Of course now I realize that you are talking about me. What you may not realize is that some of us have been playing blood sports for all of our lives and a stupid little crash isn't as important as a time most of the time... or making the trick, or getting away from the cops. I've crashed thousands of times in my life on and in every vehicle that I've ever tried. I've broken tons of helmets and ground down knee pads on dirt, asphalt and concrete. I'm out there for a reason and that's to see red and have an adrenalin fit.

    Maybe it's the first time you've seen what happens on trails when people actually play rough? Guys like me crash hard and get up to finish the ride. I was pissed that I had made the mistake of not getting my run timed because it was so cool that the crash wouldn't have cost much time. I was stoked, I was pissed, I was figuring it out. I was ALIVE. I didn't go there to have mommy pick me up from the dirt. We're different. We have different priorities.

    I wasn't being rude, I was playing the game.
    Thoroughly entertaining post.









    Still chuckling.
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    Davey, My son and I got a chance to ride the flow yesterday. As someone who builds a bit of trail all I can say to all involved is well played! That trail is a blast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Well the first time I saw PVD out there was when he was building trail.

    The second time was when he was building trail.

    and he has been out a few times building trail when I was out of town.

    (So don't be pickin' on my homie)

    The 3rd time was when he was riding out there. And the dude was really riding. I mean going so hard. Down the trail, then hammering back up to the top. Then I would see him again (I was watering berms all day) and he would come by with dirt all over and blood. Man a lot of blood. He wasn't even bothered by it. He was just frothing. 8 times he rode by and he was just going for it.

    And well, lets just say if we get invaded by gnarly aliens that eat people I'm going over to PVD's house.

    Waaaambulance is not in PVD's vocabulary.

    But hey. I go up there to listen to birds, be outside, ride bikes, talk to people and encourage them to help out, build support for a pump track and lots of other stuff.

    To each his own I say. Timers on or off. Have fun. Be nice.

    The community built a cool trail and we can do whatever we want.

    Just remember trail Jesus is always watching.

  100. #100
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    I've got to get off this thread as it's become a complete joke. It was started to be a clearing house for folks to share their times on the flow trail, but has really just been a place for slow noobs to question why anyone would ride a bike fast. Seriously, 8 out of every 10 runs down the trail are done by people who clearly have no riding skill, training, or knowledge whatsoever. This being the internet, I'm sure the proportion is even greater of posters here. Not fun if you really care about riding or learning.

    I will finish by replying to Yody as he said a few things that I question. Plus, I'm expecting a good time from him although I really don't know who he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    ...
    ...Out there crashing with your stop watch on your custom made bike...
    ...I guess you just come from a different walk of life...
    ...all the competition is too have fun and not always be pressure-driven when riding...
    ...why you are riding with so much pressure over your head, for them that would take the fun out of it...
    ...Can't believe you crashed, and all were worried about was your stop watch and you didn't even say anthing to those guys...
    ...Its like motorcycle trackdays and laptimers...
    ...They are courteous to other riders, are not reckless, and are typically pretty nice dudes...
    1. What's wrong with crashing? I have a custom made bike and that should make a difference? We learn at the edge sometimes.
    2. I don't know about a different walk of life, but I grew up skateboarding and riding bikes. I'd crash 60 times a day and sometimes really hard, especially learning a new trick. Most of that sport is learning to crash a trick just to learn to make it. Crashing can be a tool.
    3. What make you think I'm not having fun? I'm having a blast. It's fun.
    4. It was a really interesting crash and how it reflected the times. I was pissed that I couldn't tie the two together by not getting a time. There were a bunch of slack jawed noobs at the bottom of the trail but they weren't saying much. I'm not going to force them to converse. They didn't seem like the type that would understand. Pedestrians.
    5. It's nice to hear what a guy who's done a track day or two thinks about the experience. After a lifetime spent in and around working on racing bicycles, motorcycles, cars, and skateboards, it's always nice to here what the casual user thinks.
    6. I'm a nice dude and never reckless.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post
    Thoroughly entertaining post.

    Still chuckling.
    You laugh cause you can't handle the truth.

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    I'd take it a step further and suggest that 8 out of 10 of you reading this probably don't even know how to ride a bike let alone go fast.
    I'm not sure how this works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I've got to get off this thread as it's become a complete joke. It was started to be a clearing house for folks to share their times on the flow trail, but has really just been a place for slow noobs to question why anyone would ride a bike fast. Seriously, 8 out of every 10 runs down the trail are done by people who clearly have no riding skill, training, or knowledge whatsoever. This being the internet, I'm sure the proportion is even greater of posters here. Not fun if you really care about riding or learning.

    I will finish by replying to Yody as he said a few things that I question. Plus, I'm expecting a good time from him although I really don't know who he is.



    1. What's wrong with crashing? I have a custom made bike and that should make a difference? We learn at the edge sometimes.
    2. I don't know about a different walk of life, but I grew up skateboarding and riding bikes. I'd crash 60 times a day and sometimes really hard, especially learning a new trick. Most of that sport is learning to crash a trick just to learn to make it. Crashing can be a tool.
    3. What make you think I'm not having fun? I'm having a blast. It's fun.
    4. It was a really interesting crash and how it reflected the times. I was pissed that I couldn't tie the two together by not getting a time. There were a bunch of slack jawed noobs at the bottom of the trail but they weren't saying much. I'm not going to force them to converse. They didn't seem like the type that would understand. Pedestrians.
    5. It's nice to hear what a guy who's done a track day or two thinks about the experience. After a lifetime spent in and around working on racing bicycles, motorcycles, cars, and skateboards, it's always nice to here what the casual user thinks.
    6. I'm a nice dude and never reckless.
    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I'd take it a step further and suggest that 8 out of 10 of you reading this probably don't even know how to ride a bike let alone go fast.
    Hell yeah - 8 out of 10 of you can't even read . . .

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    pvd
    "I've got to get off this thread"

    Awesome.

    "It . . . has really just been a place for slow noobs to question why anyone would ride a bike fast."

    WTF?? Not really - more like a place for you to do some chest beating about how gnarcore you are (seriously impressive BTW).

    "Seriously, 8 out of every 10 runs down the trail are done by people who clearly have no riding skill, training, or knowledge whatsoever."

    Those people should be shot. Who the F do they think they are?!?! One of those 8 out of 10 might have been my 10 year old kid. I am going to tell that little focker to stay at home next time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    but has really just been a place for slow noobs to question why anyone would ride a bike fast. Seriously, 8 out of every 10 runs down the trail are done by people who clearly have no riding skill, training, or knowledge whatsoever....

    4. It was a really interesting crash and how it reflected the times. I was pissed that I couldn't tie the two together by not getting a time. There were a bunch of slack jawed noobs at the bottom of the trail but they weren't saying much. I'm not going to force them to converse. They didn't seem like the type that would understand. Pedestrians.
    5. It's nice to hear what a guy who's done a track day or two thinks about the experience. After a lifetime spent in and around working on racing bicycles, motorcycles, cars, and skateboards, it's always nice to here what the casual user thinks.
    6. I'm a nice dude and never reckless.
    so... let me get this straight:

    no timing and not posting a time on MTBR = slow slack-jawed noob
    timing and posting that time on MTBR = super fast and awesome gnarcore athlete

    got it. thanks for clearing that up! :-)

    but seriously... lighten up. i think most people are just having a little fun with this thread and some of the over-the-top posts. this thread has now definitely become more about entertaining than discussing. such is the beauty/crappy thing about a public forum on the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I've got to get off this thread as it's become a complete joke. It was started to be a clearing house for folks to share their times on the flow trail, but has really just been a place for slow noobs to question why anyone would ride a bike fast...etc.
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    Or more likely somebody forgot to take their med's.

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    "Some folk'll get a KOM
    But then again, most folks lose
    Like Cletus, the slack-jawed noob.

    Most folk'll never lose their mind
    They're happy just to ride some time
    Like Cletus, the slack-jawed noob."



    (thank god for crazy threads on rainy days!)
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by expatrider View Post
    Hell yeah - 8 out of 10 of you can't even read . . .
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    I'm an 80%er

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    I'm gonna rent a tractor and plow this flow trail tonight. It seems like humanity is not ready for it yet. Maybe another 20 years ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by erisch View Post
    I'm gonna rent a tractor and plow this flow trail tonight. It seems like humanity is not ready for it yet. Maybe another 20 years ...

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    Humanity isn't ready for this sweet edit I'm bout to drop right noooooooooow!

    from Snfoilhat on Vimeo.



    Seriously, filming is not as fun as riding. I quit after 2 shots, not even cutting to close-up of the death-defying six inches of AIR of the first step down.

    "Deaf as a Bat" by The Jesus Lizard (remember them?)

    Sorry I can't refund your 28s.

  112. #112
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    This thread is starting to sound like an animal who is cornered and starting to lash out at everybody around them.

    Wait a minute! Are we sure that mt. lion isn't trapped in Fairfax instead of SC? No, it's sounding more like honey badger.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I've got to get off this thread as it's become a complete joke. It was started to be a clearing house for folks to share their times on the flow trail, but has really just been a place for slow noobs to question why anyone would ride a bike fast. Seriously, 8 out of every 10 runs down the trail are done by people who clearly have no riding skill, training, or knowledge whatsoever. This being the internet, I'm sure the proportion is even greater of posters here. Not fun if you really care about riding or learning.

    I will finish by replying to Yody as he said a few things that I question. Plus, I'm expecting a good time from him although I really don't know who he is.



    1. What's wrong with crashing? I have a custom made bike and that should make a difference? We learn at the edge sometimes.
    2. I don't know about a different walk of life, but I grew up skateboarding and riding bikes. I'd crash 60 times a day and sometimes really hard, especially learning a new trick. Most of that sport is learning to crash a trick just to learn to make it. Crashing can be a tool.
    3. What make you think I'm not having fun? I'm having a blast. It's fun.
    4. It was a really interesting crash and how it reflected the times. I was pissed that I couldn't tie the two together by not getting a time. There were a bunch of slack jawed noobs at the bottom of the trail but they weren't saying much. I'm not going to force them to converse. They didn't seem like the type that would understand. Pedestrians.
    5. It's nice to hear what a guy who's done a track day or two thinks about the experience. After a lifetime spent in and around working on racing bicycles, motorcycles, cars, and skateboards, it's always nice to here what the casual user thinks.
    6. I'm a nice dude and never reckless.
    I was just pointing out things to show you how people are seeing what you write, how you come off.
    I think crashing means you are riding out of control. Yes they happen, and yes I ride out of control at times, but constantly crashing everything means you are riding out of control a lot. Which sounds reckless.
    Not sure what you mean on 6. I'm not a casual trackday guy. I've done trackdays for 7 years and work for a Major trackday provider, unless you're talking about other people? doesn't really matter either way.
    I'm sure you're a nice guy, but you get all worked up online, and sometimes belittle these other riders because they aren't at your caliber. I don't necessarily disagree with many of your points but you come off as very upset for whatever reason. No big deal to me, just sayin...

  114. #114
    Hi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I almost fell out of my chair. This is gold.

  115. #115
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    Nobody has posted this yet???

    Minor Threat, "Seeing Red" - YouTube

    hmm, try to embed it and it didn't work.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    Humanity isn't ready for this sweet edit I'm bout to drop right noooooooooow!

    from Snfoilhat on Vimeo.



    Seriously, filming is not as fun as riding. I quit after 2 shots, not even cutting to close-up of the death-defying six inches of AIR of the first step down.

    "Deaf as a Bat" by The Jesus Lizard (remember them?)

    Sorry I can't refund your 28s.
    Nice! Moar videos! Me likey.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I've got to get off this thread as it's become a complete joke. Seriously, 8 out of every 10 runs down the trail are done by people who clearly have no riding skill, training, or knowledge whatsoever.

    There were a bunch of slack jawed noobs at the bottom of the trail but they weren't saying much. I'm not going to force them to converse. They didn't seem like the type that would understand. Pedestrians.
    Yup, you do NOT wan't to f$ #k with this dude...
    Last edited by three3nine; 05-17-2013 at 09:08 PM.

  118. #118
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    You can say 'pvd' to sound like peeved, just say'n......
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  119. #119
    Ride More - Suffer Less
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar View Post
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    I recognize British comedian Jimmy Carr (he's hilarious!) in the picture, but I'm trying to piece together how this fits into the thread? Is pvd actually British comedian Jimmy Carr in real life?

  121. #121
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    Is this thread an open letter? I've lost track.

    P

  122. #122
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    i think the moral to this thread is ride the the trail the way you want. it's amazing to me how many folks want to enforce their opinion as if there is only one way to ride a trail. i feel as long as we are respectful of other trail users we should be good. i'm all for timed runs or guys looking to improve flow and get off the brakes. maybe get off the keyboard and get on the trail.

  123. #123
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by SOG View Post
    i think the moral to this thread is ride the the trail the way you want. it's amazing to me how many folks want to enforce their opinion as if there is only one way to ride a trail. i feel as long as we are respectful of other trail users we should be good. i'm all for timed runs or guys looking to improve flow and get off the brakes. maybe get off the keyboard and get on the trail.
    Toomorow.
    All day for me.
    Come on out y'all!
    The more the merrier!
    I love seeing and meeting all the people who are there for the first time.
    Pure Stoke.
    Beers at Gestalt after.
    You buy
    G-out


    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-imageuploadedbytapatalk1368763716.998050.jpg

  124. #124
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    Banned!

    I think Endor might benefit with a few of these . . .
    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-banned.jpg
    I like to bike.

  125. #125
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by SOG View Post
    i think the moral to this thread is ride the the trail the way you want. it's amazing to me how many folks want to enforce their opinion as if there is only one way to ride a trail. i feel as long as we are respectful of other trail users we should be good. i'm all for timed runs or guys looking to improve flow and get off the brakes. maybe get off the keyboard and get on the trail.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOG View Post
    i think the moral to this thread is ride the the trail the way you want. it's amazing to me how many folks want to enforce their opinion as if there is only one way to ride a trail. i feel as long as we are respectful of other trail users we should be good. i'm all for timed runs or guys looking to improve flow and get off the brakes. maybe get off the keyboard and get on the trail.
    I believe the moral of this thread is:

    Don't be a jackass.
    IPA will save America

  127. #127
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I believe the moral of this thread is:

    Don't be a jackass.

  128. #128
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    Drama -- Trail Sanitation at Tamarancho?!?

    from Snfoilhat on Vimeo.




    Just as a note, the berm featured at the end that is getting braking bumps near its entrance is one of the gentlest/easiest on the course. It will take care of you at ~any speed. No need to brake hard when you top the little rise out of the creek bed and see that corner.

    The editing software I have is teh sucks and the function to superimpose text is buggy. Sorry. Only so much effort to invest in a joke, but imagine clever "brought to you by" credits over the opening shot.

    Don't stop til you get enough

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I think Trail Jesus needed some touching up.

    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-trailjesus.jpg

  130. #130
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    I think Trail Jesus needed some touching up.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pure. Gold.

    And he made the Endor Facebook page:

    www.facebook.com/TAMOFLOW

  131. #131
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/66429657" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/66429657">Endor Trail Sanitation</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user14321179">Snfoilhat</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>


    Just as a note, the berm featured at the end that is getting breaking bumps near its entrance is one of the gentlest/easiest on the course. It will take care of you at ~any speed. No need to brake hard when you top the little rise out of the creek bed and see that corner.

    The editing software I have is teh sucks and the function to superimpose text is buggy. Sorry. Only so much effort to invest in a joke, but imagine clever "brought to you by" credits over the opening shot.
    Cheers
    Love it! I know what we will be fixing next winter... braking bumps.

  132. #132
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    If we're gonna be talking about lap times and details of the course, we need to number and/or name the turns. Otherwise it'll be an endless telephone game of "ya know, the left turn right after that tree and before that big banked turn."

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    I think Endor might benefit with a few of these . . .
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Si Si Simone!!
    Keep it 2 wheeled eh?

  134. #134
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Si Si Simone!!
    Keep it 2 wheeled eh?
    No need. Such signage would only cause more drama-rancho. IMHO

  135. #135
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    Have some great weekend runs everyone!!!

    Reward yourself with one cerveza for every rad run.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-p8280093.jpg  

    IPA will save America

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by splatworldwide View Post
    If we're gonna be talking about lap times and details of the course, we need to number and/or name the turns. Otherwise it'll be an endless telephone game of "ya know, the left turn right after that tree and before that big banked turn."

    Berm names:

    #1 : Handmade berm (took 2 solid weeks no machines could get to it.)
    #2&#3 : Dylan's S - named after Dylan Renn who fought hard to get it RENNCRAFT | A better cycling experience.
    #4 : the Madrone turn. One of my favorites. Sandor chopped up a big dead Madrone here the very first day of building.
    #5 : The Bees turn. Jason Van Horn walked on a hornets nest when we were flagging this turn
    #6 : Suddenly Clairvoyant Clarence Turn (where the upper section ends)
    #7 : Bowsers Castle, lots of rocks here. I think this is where Matt's Movie begins. The first and largest crib wall is here.
    #8 : WHAPA or SO PITTED. The turn inspired by surfing.
    #9 : Sahara or crib wall #3
    #10 : Sendor of Endor - this is a secret feature as well. No cheat codes to unlock
    #11 : The pit turn. If it didn't have a drain it would fill up with water.
    #12 : The start of the 5 berm series. Jim's berms. Where the green alien now resides
    #17 : Doesn't have a name yet.
    #18 : Keith Stone. By the time we were making these berms we got it dialed. Its smoooooth
    #19 : Doesn't have a name yet another fun one with a little jump thingy out of it

    There are 96 rollers:

    I just had a brilliant idea. Pay for naming them like ballparks! LOL

  137. #137
    It's about showing up.
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    Clearly, this is the most interesting thing to happen around here for a long time.
    I don't rattle.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Berm names:

    #5 : The Bees turn. Jason Van Horn walked on a hornets nest when we were flagging this turn
    Van Hornet. Lol.

  139. #139
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    Went up and did three laps today. Didn't feel terribly good, wasn't really an "on-day" but whatever. I tried timing them with a stop watch on my wrist. Ended up being kind of a mess and clumsy. Trying to take off was hard becasue from a dead stop I would have to reach over and click the start button, then reach for the grip and try and take off and clip in at the same time. Definitely not good starts. Same with the end of the run, I'd have to wait till I would fly up the hill, stop then reach over and click it off. i don't think I'm going to do that method again. I'm thinking 2-4 seconds by having it on the bars and being able to hit the button with both hands on the grips.

    Anyway I did 3 pretty consistent times even though the runs felt pretty different from each other
    2:53
    2:51
    2:49

    First run was totally stiff and forced, felt sloppy.
    Second run was a bit better but still felt unwarmed up. little more flow, but still some pedaling
    Third run was the least pedaling and the most momentum, but I still felt like I was working way too hard compared to other runs on better days. Heart rate was really up there.
    I would of liked to get at least 3 more runs in to loosen up.

    This is on a 30ilb Mojo HD size XL, 5" seat dropper, 750mm bars with 70mm stem. 900 gram tires front/rear (minion/weirwolf). 32psi in the tires, compression on shock and fork set high (not locked)

    I dunno if I'm going to pursue a better stopwatch, I'm on the fence on whether I like timing myself on the spot. Also with such close times even with such varied riding, it doesn't seem to change the times enough to really see if hitting one or two corners faster makes a difference.

  140. #140
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    Been thinking about it and I think I'm over timed runs. Even if i got down to 2:40 (which I think I can do) who really cares. you can pump the crap outta a section and get good momentum and really kill it and you're time won't even be that better. In retrospect it seems stupid to rush down the flow trail, trying to grab pedal strokes every chance, heart rate thru the roof... chasing down a second or two. I understand now, that this isn't really the point. This isn't a dual slalom race. Its not as fun to ride down this trail like that. Pedaling is crap. I think if anyone who times themself should be doing no pedaling runs otherrwise your'e defeating the entire purpose of the trail. I've seen the light endorks. lol

  141. #141
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    Pedaling on a pump track is a noob move. I say noob in the kindest way. It's what you have to do when you don't know how to do anything else.

    Pedaling through tall rollers while still pumping and not throwing the rhythm off or striking a pedal is an advanced BMX skill.

    Pedaling through a berm is more difficult and more advanced the smaller and faster the berm is. Not noob thing at all.

    BMX tracks are 30-50s long sprint (for a range of ages/abilities). That's about how long the slalom at Sea Otter is, too. Endor is 3-4 min. Without it being anyone's intention, Endor is an amazing BMX/slalom training course, both for skills and endurance.

    It is really really cool to have your 'revelation' moment and find out what
    the entire purpose of the trail
    is, but let's not go overboard and immediately declare that it's the one and only true purpose for all people. There's enough of that in the world.

  142. #142
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    I don't know at my level I find it almost faster to focus more on pumping the hardest and to skip pedaling. At least on my full suspension. I still grab a few pedal strokes out of a few berms, and up a few uphills, but it almost seems like it slows you down because while youre pedaling you're not pumping. Its almost a waste of time. If you're Brian Lopes fine, go ahead and pedal but based on everyones times people are reporting and my findings, its really not much faster, and in my opinion defeats the purpose. Not saying I'm never going to pedal, but if you're going up to the Flow Traill and all you do is try and get the very best time DH and are pedaling like mad. You might not be getting the most out of the whole experience.

  143. #143
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    This is preety much the scene after the berms get watered


  144. #144
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    Lol I jack-knifed in one of those watered lower berms. Managed to save it. Said screw it I'ma just go in full blast and see what happens. Learned my lesson.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    This is preety much the scene after the berms get watered

    You said it - in case you missed it, there is a mini-thread on this & video of me doing one of these maneuvers right after the irrigation was installed - lesson learned!

    https://forums.mtbr.com/california-n...os-854008.html

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    This is preety much the scene after the berms get watered

    baahahahahaha
    YouTube | #1 Rule for California mtb: If you're having fun, it's illegal.

  147. #147
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    whoopsie
    Last edited by Yody; 05-27-2013 at 10:23 PM.

  148. #148
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    The stopwatch doesn't lie.

  149. #149
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    random post is random

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    The stopwatch doesn't lie.
    2:42 on my fully rigid fatbike (salsa mukluk)
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

    Mike Vandeman Sucks Dong

  151. #151
    pvd
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    Lie.

  152. #152
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    This thread's lasting contribution to local mountain biking is that troll times, remarkably, fall right at the fast end of plausibility. It's what I always hoped for.

    It's teasing with f-ing precision. Win!

  153. #153
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    This thread's lasting contribution to local mountain biking is that troll times, remarkably, fall right at the fast end of plausibility. It's what I always hoped for.

    It's teasing with f-ing precision. Win!
    All your base


  154. #154
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    Look at this awesome high quality video I took. The video doesn't lie! lmao


  155. #155
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Look at this awesome high quality video I took. The video doesn't lie! lmao

    He lost like 3 seconds skidding like that ya know?

  156. #156
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    thats me, not a skid either, or slower. or were you being sarcastic

  157. #157
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    thats me, not a skid either, or slower. or were you being sarcastic


    At this point of the MTBR Tamarancho train wreck everyone is being sarcastic, or trolling

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    thats me, not a skid either, or slower. or were you being sarcastic
    yes, it's obvious your tubeless back tire burped and you lost like 10 seconds because you had to ride down with 5 psi less pressure in your back tire. I'd call up stans and mavic or whoever made your rim and complain that they caused you to lose a stopwatch timed internet competition and they owe you 5 psi of air.

  159. #159
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    Is it OK now to go off topic and treat all the different Tamo/Flow threads as if they were the "100% Positive thread" started by skyno? That's my favorite one, but for some reason (...) it comes up the least often.

    Cause I want to tell the world that I just swapped my super duper Rockshox Lyric RC2L (a damper with that many letters must be good!) for a much simpler Rockshox Argyle RCT and now have a Memorial day of Endor laps on it and boyeeee it is so nice.

    So nice.

  160. #160
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    shoot, on this forum you never know. people spew ignorance on the daily

  161. #161
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs-pancake_bunny.jpg

  162. #162
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    Man, it must have been capital e epic up there today with those showers last night! Alas I was stuck at work clicking a mouse.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Interesting that the 'times don't matter' crowd haven't posted their 4:00+ times.
    First time I run that trail, I will run it in about 10 minutes - I think I have stopwatch on my phone - and post it here. Unfortunately, I do not yet have Strava, or whatever all the cool kids have.

    Have not seen the trail yet, but I do like drama on the interwebz.

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  164. #164
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    Man, it must have been capital e epic up there today with those showers last night! Alas I was stuck at work clicking a mouse.
    It was:


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    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    [QUOTE=Davey Simon;10429135]It was:

    Just ok.
    Just us.
    Just right.
    Back to your cubes.

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    Endor at Tamarancho Timed Runs

    Quote Originally Posted by SOG View Post
    Great vid!
    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOG View Post
    Is it just me or does it look like they are going the wrong way to the flow trail? at the start of the Flow sequence?
    To love me is to rep me, world domination is eminent/imminent/immanent.

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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzkil View Post
    Is it just me or does it look like they are going the wrong way to the flow trail? at the start of the Flow sequence?
    I think that is San Geronimo ridge from Woodacre...(I think they took the Azalea Hill trail) My favorite way to Endor--less traffic and some side routes too.

    Just looked again, and no, it was bad editing.
    Last edited by johnnyb; 05-31-2013 at 05:18 PM. Reason: looked again

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Great vid!
    Thanks!
    Too bad they weren't timing their run. Sick manual on Repack too.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

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    Seen in Tamarancho This Week

    Gilbert's skink

    Gopher snake

    Ring-necked snake

    Snfoilhat's first scrub over Mt. Doom - elusive, I had a poor view of it from my vantage

    None of these creatures submitted a lap time, but the skink appeared to be fastest.

    Be on the lookout, Tamaranchers!

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