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  1. #1
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    Demo: Anything "new" going on?

    Any reroutes, closed roads, closed trails, etc going on up at Demo?

  2. #2
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    Was just there a few hours ago... they're fixing the road that goes in... there are traffic lights and stop signs... just a short delay... nothing major

  3. #3
    Hoolie Ghoulie on Strava.
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    Looks like a small fire wiped out the singletrack that gets you off the fireroad, on your way up? I exited "High Fideliy"(?) singletrack, but the fire damage made me stay on Fireroad until beginning of Ridge. Locals chime in?
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    They were doing construction on the road today. Was a pretty long wait to get out. Signs say this will continue til July 10, but I think they work standard hours and days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    Looks like a small fire wiped out the singletrack that gets you off the fireroad, on your way up? I exited "High Fideliy"(?) singletrack, but the fire damage made me stay on Fireroad until beginning of Ridge. Locals chime in?
    Yes, that was a controlled burn they did earlier in the spring. Gave the place a haircut last summer and fall to reduce fuel. some of the trails on front side where hard to follow, needed a little bit of love to get back in shape.

  6. #6
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    Lots of ebike traffic
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    C'mon, Bruh. You just plagiarized Train Wreck's ride report!

  8. #8
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    So they are de-facto allowed? No enforecement, other than complainers on mtbr?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    So they are de-facto allowed? No enforecement, other than complainers on mtbr?
    Until the day when a ranger pulls everyone aside for a ticket.

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    BrassBalled DropbarNinja
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Until the day when a ranger pulls everyone aside for a ticket.

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    rangers were actually waiting at the top turning people on ebikes away like two weeks ago so i heard

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive View Post
    rangers were actually waiting at the top turning people on ebikes away like two weeks ago so i heard
    Interesting. In the end, ebikes are probably gonna be allowed everywhere, but it'll take a while.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  12. #12
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    Don't be so sure. CA voted to ban gay marriage. Twice. Never underestimate people's desire and ability to vote for segregation and banning. CA is more ban happy than any other state, bar none. 75% of the people on this board have voted to ban lots of stuff they've never been involved with. It's easy to imagine expanding bans on e-bikes, not expanding acceptance or tolerance.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    So they are de-facto allowed? No enforecement, other than complainers on mtbr?
    AFAIK there has never been a single biking ticket issued at SDSF in 15 years of riding. The foresters don't even have the authority to issue tickets as they are not rangers. They can prolly call the Santa Cruz police but that's reserved for rave parties and rednecks shooting guns and defacing all the signage and crashing the gates there. I do recall one of the moron's vehicles getting stuck in mud bog.

    On weekdaze there seem to be a bunch of ebikes there prolly the majority even. The ebike ban there is so stupid IMHO as they are supposed to Demonstrate better access and funding for the forest. Even logging the darn trees to sustain itself. Now they ban ebikes for no good reason an no ability to enforce anything. I am riding a Focus Jam E and that 1.5 hour climb to do a 10 minute brail descent finally makes sense now. And I do not have to be rescued at the bottom oh hahns mill. Usually do not even have to take the road and buzzard up. Feels safer to just down the fire road and up sulfurs.

  14. #14
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    OK, I think I understand now. ebikes are not allowed at Demo just like driving a car at speeds in excess of 80 mph on public roads is not allowed.

    Thanks guys. I thought enforcement was more active. This resets my ebike purchase desire and expectation. I didn't realize it was so lax there.

    I'm glad I found MTBR. I've learned all sorts of good information about the expectations for rule following for bike vs no-bike trails, and ebike vs no-ebike trails. It's been educational and useful!

  15. #15
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    OK, I think I understand now. ebikes are not allowed at Demo just like driving a car at speeds in excess of 80 mph on public roads is not allowed.

    Thanks guys. I thought enforcement was more active. This resets my ebike purchase desire and expectation. I didn't realize it was so lax there.

    I'm glad I found MTBR. I've learned all sorts of good information about the expectations for rule following for bike vs no-bike trails, and ebike vs no-ebike trails. It's been educational and useful!
    Right on Whiterabbit. Where do you live? I've had a bunch of ebikes over the last decade, mostly for commuting. But starting with the Pivot Shuttle, they started getting good for the trail.

    Legal areas in the south bay are:
    - all Santa Clara County Parks where biking is allowed
    - Henry Coe State Park
    - Wilder State Park
    - Fort Ord
    - UC Emma McCrary Trail
    - Midpen (if you have disability, are they allowed to ask?)
    - Pacifica?
    - Nisene Marks, Big Basin.

    And talking to folks and rangers at SCC Parks and Coe, there hasn't been any bad effects for users or trails. Just more users in remote areas of the parks. No internet brawls! hahahahaha

    What I like about the most is I can ride everyday now, usually from home and even the shitty trails (aka 20% fireroads) are fine. And I can ride with my wife and kids now anytime and they actually like it. lol. And it pisses off the #stravatards who covet their imaginary trophies.


    In my opinion, Rangers, Forest managers, land owners, city leaders, board members and decision makers CAN mountain bike now. Thus ebikes will get largely legalized and it will open up new areas for biking. The only real way to get more access is to get more money, political power, drive the economy and the enable decision makers to participate.
    IPA will save America

  16. #16
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    fc, would you happen to know why Demo outlawed ebikes in the first place? I believe they've had the ban for quite a few years now (pre-dating the current generation of ebikes). Was it to keep traffic down, or discourage motos, or...?

    Demo does seem like a good place for an ebike, but with the lengthy bit of time (and resources) needed to rescue an injured rider maybe it makes sense to require a certain level of fitness (and thus experience) before riders start spending time there?

  17. #17
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    Hey FC, My "home trails" are Rocky Ridge and Stile's Ranch. I'll do Stile's both ways, but prefer to only come down rocky ridge. The fire roads of santa theresa county park are really what drive home the obvious joy of trying an ebike. But the big loop of demo on paper seems like an ebike would be lovely to have there...

    I can't comment on strava. I don't "do" social media, any of it (I guess the occasional internet bulletin board...). So I don;t really know what strava is or what being a KOM is all about. I just like to ride.

  18. #18
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by sa12 View Post
    fc, would you happen to know why Demo outlawed ebikes in the first place? I believe they've had the ban for quite a few years now (pre-dating the current generation of ebikes). Was it to keep traffic down, or discourage motos, or...?

    Demo does seem like a good place for an ebike, but with the lengthy bit of time (and resources) needed to rescue an injured rider maybe it makes sense to require a certain level of fitness (and thus experience) before riders start spending time there?
    The reason I've heard is because they don't want any more trail users. They don't want more rescue calls as it taxes limited resources. I believe the experience with Flow Trail has been more users, more rescues.

    I'm getting this second hand from my key friends at MBOSC. So I'm not 101% sure. Understandable but pretty unfortunate.

    There are so many riders at Demo Forest on Walmart bikes that are so unprepared. I don't think it's as much of an issue with e-bikers. In my experience a new mountain biker riding an e-bike for 1 month is a way, way better rider than one on a normal bike. Why? Because they get so much more practice and repetition descending.

    So I think it's more a case of a change they're not ready to declare given the current resources. The folks in charge of Demo Forest have a much greater responsibility taking care of Forest Fires in a massive Norcal fire-ready area.
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  19. #19
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    Hey FC, My "home trails" are Rocky Ridge and Stile's Ranch. I'll do Stile's both ways, but prefer to only come down rocky ridge. The fire roads of santa theresa county park are really what drive home the obvious joy of trying an ebike. But the big loop of demo on paper seems like an ebike would be lovely to have there...

    I can't comment on strava. I don't "do" social media, any of it (I guess the occasional internet bulletin board...). So I don;t really know what strava is or what being a KOM is all about. I just like to ride.
    Yeah, Santa Teresa is perfect. In 20 years, I rode there maybe 3 times. It just wasn't worth the drive for me. But now, since ebikes are available and ok there, I go there about twice a month. I'm able to take the steep trails like Boundary and the ones across Bernal road. Everything's good and I get to use the whole park and knock out 3-4000 feet even on hot days. And it get freakin hot there.

    And now I connect Santa Teresa to Calero, Vicente, and Quicksilver. Heck, I've even ridden there from my house in Saratoga.

    Same goes for Henry Coe. What I didn't like, now I dig with some assist.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Demo: Anything "new" going on?-img_4171.jpg  

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    Demo: Anything "new" going on?-img_9947.jpg  

    Demo: Anything "new" going on?-img_9937.jpg  

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  20. #20
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    welp, you get more airtime than I do on RR. Still learning jumps. was a non issue during my (very!) brief time DH racing, we kept our wheels on the ground!

    Any recommendations on other trails to go to to get good practice? Demo looks fabulous, any other local trails with some small bumps to try my luck on?





    Gonna sound silly, but I've never ridden Boundary. I'd love to, but every time I make that fire road climb and am faced with making a right to RR or left to Boundary, I always hang a right.

    I guess I need more variety

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brah View Post
    Lots of ebike traffic
    I agree. I give you permission to give ebikers $20 to leave and go somewhere else.
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    So they are de-facto allowed? No enforecement, other than complainers on mtbr?
    If you abuse this de-facto allowed and don't show discretion, you invite a major crackdown "just because".

    If you ride an ebike there, don't post it on strava as an ebike ride. It can be used to justify the crackdown. Don't blow the uphill KOMs either. Just cruise up with mid-level assist.

    Oh, yes, I ride an ebike, discretely.
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive View Post
    rangers were actually waiting at the top turning people on ebikes away like two weeks ago so i heard
    I have not heard this happening, but this just shows the lack of discretion could have reared its ugly head.

    If this happened to me, I would play with a pig, a doughnut, and play with bacon.
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by this is the day View Post
    AFAIK there has never been a single biking ticket issued at SDSF in 15 years of riding. The foresters don't even have the authority to issue tickets as they are not rangers. They can prolly call the Santa Cruz police but that's reserved for rave parties and rednecks shooting guns and defacing all the signage and crashing the gates there. I do recall one of the moron's vehicles getting stuck in mud bog.

    On weekdaze there seem to be a bunch of ebikes there prolly the majority even. The ebike ban there is so stupid IMHO as they are supposed to Demonstrate better access and funding for the forest. Even logging the darn trees to sustain itself. Now they ban ebikes for no good reason an no ability to enforce anything. I am riding a Focus Jam E and that 1.5 hour climb to do a 10 minute brail descent finally makes sense now. And I do not have to be rescued at the bottom oh hahns mill. Usually do not even have to take the road and buzzard up. Feels safer to just down the fire road and up sulfurs.
    From what I have read from FC, it's not ebikes, but the numbers they could produce on the trails. That in turn creates more need for rescue. CalFire or CDF are not in the business of providing rescue in the forest at their primary function.

    Let's face it, covid has made Demo a nut house on the weekends. So many have now discovered mtb. They buy a bike and ask where to ride it. The bike shop says "Demo".
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    Hey FC, My "home trails" are Rocky Ridge and Stile's Ranch. I'll do Stile's both ways, but prefer to only come down rocky ridge. The fire roads of santa theresa county park are really what drive home the obvious joy of trying an ebike. But the big loop of demo on paper seems like an ebike would be lovely to have there...

    I can't comment on strava. I don't "do" social media, any of it (I guess the occasional internet bulletin board...). So I don;t really know what strava is or what being a KOM is all about. I just like to ride.
    an ebike that is great, but go big and enduro. Rocky ridge and Stiles on a short travel bike is harder than it should be.

    Jump over to Calero and get some fun single track on the upper mtn.

    the cost of the climb is reduced by an ebike
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The reason I've heard is because they don't want any more trail users. They don't want more rescue calls as it taxes limited resources. I believe the experience with Flow Trail has been more users, more rescues.

    I'm getting this second hand from my key friends at MBOSC. So I'm not 101% sure. Understandable but pretty unfortunate.

    There are so many riders at Demo Forest on Walmart bikes that are so unprepared. I don't think it's as much of an issue with e-bikers. In my experience a new mountain biker riding an e-bike for 1 month is a way, way better rider than one on a normal bike. Why? Because they get so much more practice and repetition descending.

    So I think it's more a case of a change they're not ready to declare given the current resources. The folks in charge of Demo Forest have a much greater responsibility taking care of Forest Fires in a massive Norcal fire-ready area.
    The eBike ban in Demo has been discussed and the following quote has some argument from Cal Fire directly. Not sure where he got it though. Maybe email or a post somewhere?

    https://forums.mtbr.com/california-n...l#post14785491

  27. #27
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by upsha View Post
    The eBike ban in Demo has been discussed and the following quote has some argument from Cal Fire directly. Not sure where he got it though. Maybe email or a post somewhere?

    https://forums.mtbr.com/california-n...l#post14785491
    Thank you. Appreciate that info.
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  28. #28
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    welp, you get more airtime than I do on RR. Still learning jumps. was a non issue during my (very!) brief time DH racing, we kept our wheels on the ground!

    Any recommendations on other trails to go to to get good practice? Demo looks fabulous, any other local trails with some small bumps to try my luck on?





    Gonna sound silly, but I've never ridden Boundary. I'd love to, but every time I make that fire road climb and am faced with making a right to RR or left to Boundary, I always hang a right.

    I guess I need more variety
    A good place to ride and learn is Lake Cunningham Bike Park. Lake Cunningham Skate Park - Lake Cunningham Action Sports Park

    Lot of jump line progressions. Dual slalom and pump track
    IPA will save America

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