Cross-post: TNT Sultan vs VPP Tallboy, 100-mile race- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Cross-post: TNT Sultan vs VPP Tallboy, 100-mile race

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=7703189

    I would like to hear your opinion.

    Morgan

  2. #2
    Nature Rider, Not MTBer
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    I've hated every Santa Cruz bike I've ridden. So personally I would throw the Tallboy in a ditch and then throw heavy things on it. I just don't mesh well with Santa Cruzes for some reason.

    That's probably not helpful.
    This is no time for levity. - Oliver Hardy

  3. #3
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    No Plim, it's not. Back in your hole!

    :-)

    Morgan

  4. #4
    fc
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    You need a tallboy, cut that race to 50 miles and a whole lot of Pliny!

    fc

  5. #5
    Feeling a little taller
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    I have a Tallboy. Of all of the bikes I have ever owned, I love my Tallboy the best. For me at about 27# and with the TALAS fork on the front I can ride all day without getting tired. It levitates up hills. It screams back down them. It eats up terrain. I eat up terrain!

    In short, it was not cheap but it was the best money I have spent on a bike.

    edit. +1 on the "You need a Tallboy."

    One more thing. Mine's a large and you're taller than I am. Go for an XL. I know someone who may have one for you.
    There are no stupid questions but there are A LOT of inquisitive idiots.


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  6. #6
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    I love my Tallboy. It's the only FS I've ever owned, but I have not ridden anything else that really compares.

  7. #7
    zon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan'ger
    ....One more thing. Mine's a large and you're taller than I am. Go for an XL..... .

    Now I find this out. My Lg will be here UPS on Friday. Are you saying it will be too small??
    ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


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  8. #8
    Feeling a little taller
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    Quote Originally Posted by zon
    Now I find this out. My Lg will be here UPS on Friday. Are you saying it will be too small??
    It's hard to say. I prefer my bikes with a slightly longer top tube than the charts would indicate for my height of 5'11". I rode a XL GF SS 29" once and it was too big for me for sure...not really apples to apples. *edit - I also once rode an medium Intense Spider 29" and it was too small for me.

    IMHO, if you rode an XL 26" bike, you would probably want the XL 29" bike.
    There are no stupid questions but there are A LOT of inquisitive idiots.


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  9. #9
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    My Take...

    Hey Morgan,

    I was kinda where you are now last year getting ready for Cream Puff. Only, I don't have an xc fs frame as on option. I had two choices for the race: Moots Mooto-X or a Niner RIP9. I did some long rides on the RIP and felt pretty confident that it Puff was doable on a almost 28lb bike. Since there's a ton of climbing, the Moots would be a way better climber than the RIP. I had to put gears on the Moots (2x9) since I don't have loads of money lying around since we've been on a one paycheck family supporting twin boys for the last 3.5 years. I had the gears in my "inventory" and used what I had.
    I did another long ride on the Moots once set up and decided that a 24lb hardtail was going to be the racer. I'm a weight weenie at heart but a FS bike would be nice to keep me somewhat fresh in the bumps. But the climbing trumped the FS.

    Basically, if you have a TNT Sultan in your inventory, I'd use it cause you'll want the cush on the new course. And if you want to keep the hardtail (nice bike by the way, saw you at the TS 100 last year in our Mad Cat aid station) for other races, then race the Sultan. And it sounds like money is somewhat an issue for you. The RIP to me is like your DW Sultan, more play than race. I race my RIP at the Prairie City series cause it's bumpy out there and have way more fun on it too. Also, are you only going to get a TallBoy for this particular race or are you going to keep it around for a while? And will it be an issue to have it instead of your hardtail for those other races? I prefer to have the hardtail around for races that don't demand an FS bike and not have to deal with moving parts when the weather gets wet and muddy. IMO.

    Not sure if this helps, but I remember what a friend has told me "bring whatcha got!". I'm interested in what you finally decide.

    Steve
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  10. #10
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    29" bikes should be banned from racing, I mean with those larger tires it turns it essentially into a 90 mile race no?

    I think you should do it on a BMX bike, now that would be impressive.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC
    29" bikes should be banned from racing, I mean with those larger tires it turns it essentially into a 90 mile race no?

    I think you should do it on a BMX bike, now that would be impressive.
    I'm the only one I have to impress. No one else cares.

    Morgan

  12. #12
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    Thanks, Steve!

    Tallboy would definitely be my only race bike, if I go that route. Yeah, might miss the hardtail.

    Morgan

  13. #13
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    Morgan,

    It sounds like you and I have similar builds and riding styles (6'4", 200lb, 180 cranks, like to hammer, etc.). I've never ridden the Turner, but I own a Mojo and have demoed the XXL Tallboy.

    In your situation, I'd say get the TB and dump your hard tail.

    Here's my take from riding the TB:

    Pros: Light, fast, laterally stiff, rolls well, built for tall guys

    Cons: PP lever on low compression tune RP23 has almost no effect, not as bob resistant as I had expected, did not seem like a "fun" or "playful" bike. Rear end is not what I would describe as plush. Pricey.

    While riding the TB, I just kept thinking that it was like a cruise missile that wanted to motor. The thought "24 hour racer" kept popping into my head. Note that I did not have a ton of time to play with any of the shock settings, other than those that were externally adjustable w/o tools.

    I would have liked to have tried it with a beefier front tire (stock was a 2.1 SB8, from what I recall), along with a longer travel (+20mm from stock), travel adjust fork. This would hopefully slacken things out a bit, while being able to drop the front end a bit on the climbs would take some of the weight off of the rear suspension, increasing pedaling performance.

    I bet that it would make a good rig for your described intentions.

    -D
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cross-post: TNT Sultan vs VPP Tallboy, 100-mile race-2009_10_03_scd_07.jpg  


  14. #14
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    Of course I'm biased, but my Tallboy is the best bike I've ever raced, basically because it actually fits me. It pedals like a blur XC, descends like one too (that's a huge compliment), and did I mention 25.9" TT? I took it to 3rd in XC and 4th in short track (!!!) at collegiate nationals, so the tiny bit of extra weight over the BXC is definitely not holding me back.

    If money is no issue, of course you want to shave off that pound+!

    Mine:
    XXL Frame size, F100 RLC 15QR, stan's Crest rims, Karma 1.9's, Formula R1's, Hive cranks, 2x9 gripshifters, yada yada, and it comes in at 24 and change. With saner tires (Maxxis CrossMarks are my current favorite), a hair over 25.
    ye' old trailblog: www.most-excellent-adventures.com THE BAY AREA... WHERE IF IT'S FUN, IT'S ILLEGAL

  15. #15
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    My $.02

    I'm with I84biking to a degree.... Run what ya brung.

    That said, having exp. with both versions of the RIP and a Tallboy I'd endorse the Tallboy if you have the ways & means. If you own the RIP already and $$$ is tight, stick with it, slap on light wheels/tires and run it. It is a capable bike.

    - In fact, at back to back Laguna Seca 24hoa's my lap times were better on the hydro-formed, heavier new generation RIP vs. my 1st generation, flexier, lighter RIP. And it CERTAINLY wasn't from "training". CVA is efficient, just like VPP that I fell in love with long ago. Now the 3# weight savings the Tallboy offers....THAT'S another story.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT
    I'm with I84biking to a degree.... Run what ya brung.

    That said, having exp. with both versions of the RIP and a Tallboy I'd endorse the Tallboy if you have the ways & means. If you own the RIP already and $$$ is tight, stick with it, slap on light wheels/tires and run it. It is a capable bike.

    - In fact, at back to back Laguna Seca 24hoa's my lap times were better on the hydro-formed, heavier new generation RIP vs. my 1st generation, flexier, lighter RIP. And it CERTAINLY wasn't from "training". CVA is efficient, just like VPP that I fell in love with long ago. Now the 3# weight savings the Tallboy offers....THAT'S another story.
    Niner RIP9 is not in the picture, for me. TNT Sultan, Tallboy or hardtail AIR9 are the three choices. Have the first, frame only, don't have the second, have the third as a complete bike, but it's not the right bike for this race this year, for me.

    Thanks,

    Morgan

  17. #17
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    Whoops! Mis-read the thread while catching-up.

    - A very good friend recently purchased a TNT Sultan and is pretty serious about selling his 26" Blur XC & Enduro - He likes it THAT much. Turners are nice, the only one I have rode was during a Sea Otter demo and was a trail-type build, DW Sultan....NOT really comparable to the TNT. I tell you what though, the TNT bike is NOT slowing my friend down at all - NICE bike.

    I'd suggest building your Sultan with the parts off the Niner. Simple, cost-effective solution there...

  18. #18
    Feeling a little taller
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso
    Of course I'm biased, but my Tallboy is the best bike I've ever raced, basically because it actually fits me. It pedals like a blur XC, descends like one too (that's a huge compliment), and did I mention 25.9" TT? I took it to 3rd in XC and 4th in short track (!!!) at collegiate nationals, so the tiny bit of extra weight over the BXC is definitely not holding me back.

    If money is no issue, of course you want to shave off that pound+!

    Mine:
    XXL Frame size, F100 RLC 15QR, stan's Crest rims, Karma 1.9's, Formula R1's, Hive cranks, 2x9 gripshifters, yada yada, and it comes in at 24 and change. With saner tires (Maxxis CrossMarks are my current favorite), a hair over 25.
    +1 on the Maxxis CrossMarks. They came with my build kit and I really love the way that they hook up. I have to run them at reletively low pressures though - around 26-28psi max.
    There are no stupid questions but there are A LOT of inquisitive idiots.


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  19. #19
    jms
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    Two Morgans

    Jeez Morgan, here too? About the only place you haven't cross posted this topic is in the Women's Lounge.

    I'll put it this way. If I had to bet on which one of the following Morgans is faster @ the TS 100:

    The Morgan with a Tallboy.

    The 195 lb [or less] Morgan with a TNT Sultan that hasn't had another beer this year until after the race.

    My money would be on the "195 lb. TNT Morgan".

    Here are the things I worry about regarding the TS 100 before concerning myself with the "is my current bike's suspension design as efficient as a VPP Tallboy" conundrum:

    My pre-race and race nutrition plan, bike fit, wheel/tire choice, the route, the weather, fork and shock tuning, getting enough and where I'm going to sleep before the race, getting enough miles in before the race, staying healthy and being well rested ahead of the race.

    After I've tidyed up those things, I might entertain the merits of a different suspension platform.

    See you and the new Tallboy @ the race.
    My Favorite Peeps:

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms
    Jeez Morgan, here too? About the only place you haven't cross posted this topic is in the Women's Lounge.

    I'll put it this way. If I had to bet on which one of the following Morgans is faster @ the TS 100:

    The Morgan with a Tallboy.

    The 195 lb [or less] Morgan with a TNT Sultan that hasn't had another beer this year until after the race.

    My money would be on the "195 lb. TNT Morgan".

    Here are the things I worry about regarding the TS 100 before concerning myself with the "is my current bike's suspension design as efficient as a VPP Tallboy" conundrum:

    My pre-race and race nutrition plan, bike fit, wheel/tire choice, the route, the weather, fork and shock tuning, getting enough and where I'm going to sleep before the race, getting enough miles in before the race, staying healthy and being well rested ahead of the race.

    After I've tidyed up those things, I might entertain the merits of a different suspension platform.

    See you and the new Tallboy @ the race.
    John, I was really casting about for advice. Did you see the facebook thread?

    Looks like it will be the Tallboy.

    I am trying hard to get below 200 this year! Currently at a plateau of 208 but trying hard, riding a lot. Was 214 on 1/31.

    Morgan

  21. #21
    jms
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    You'll Kill It

    LOL!

    Yaah saw that Facebook thing this morning too. You're gonna do great @ the TS 100 no matter what you ride. Great job with the diet too
    My Favorite Peeps:

  22. #22
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    Tallboy XL or XXL?

    Menso, finally retiring your old Blur LT, and ready to pull the trigger on a Tallboy, but wondering if I should go XXL. What size stem are you using? At 6'4", I think I'm about an inch shorter than you and shorter legs. Got to demo an XL at Fruita last year, but an XXL with TT of 25.9" sounds like I'd be able to run a shorter stem than usual.

    Diesel...how was the fit on the XXL for you since I'm closer to your build than Menso's.

    Trying to find an XXL to demo, but not sure that's going to happen.

    Brad
    Every day above ground is a great day!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradmtb
    Menso, finally retiring your old Blur LT, and ready to pull the trigger on a Tallboy, but wondering if I should go XXL. What size stem are you using? At 6'4", I think I'm about an inch shorter than you and shorter legs. Got to demo an XL at Fruita last year, but an XXL with TT of 25.9" sounds like I'd be able to run a shorter stem than usual.

    Diesel...how was the fit on the XXL for you since I'm closer to your build than Menso's.

    Trying to find an XXL to demo, but not sure that's going to happen.

    Brad
    If it were me, I'd get the XXL. I rode the XXL tallboy back to back with the XL Blur XC, and it looks like the ST and TT lengths on the XL Tallboys and carbon BXCs are the same. Check out this thread for a comparison or two, with photos. I was way past the limit line on the stock BXC post. Notice how proportional everything looks on the XXL TB.

    If you get a "big bike", you might as well go all in and get the bigger size, given your height.

    -D

  24. #24
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    I don't know Diesel, everyone's different.....like me.
    Just shy of 6'5" and love my XL Tallboy with 100mm Stem, non-layback Seatpost and 120mm fork. Works great for me but maybe not Bradmtb......

  25. #25
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    Xl Tallboy

    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT
    I don't know Diesel, everyone's different.....like me.
    Just shy of 6'5" and love my XL Tallboy with 100mm Stem, non-layback Seatpost and 120mm fork. Works great for me but maybe not Bradmtb......
    right there with you brother. im 6'4" and i love my xl, demoed both the xl and xxl on subsequent weekends. but to each his own. i like to be on the bike instead of in it. the only thing i might change is i might go a little longer on the stem. but im definitely not complaining. good luck with the sizing.
    Another Tallboy convert!!!

  26. #26
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    Suck it up Morgan. Ride your Retrotec rigid and SS!

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