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  1. #1
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    Completely OT: Vinyl --- Paging Mr. Pig....

    My son has recently gotten into vinyl in a big way. Which means I'm now into it too.

    Who's into it? Collections? Advice?

    Right now he has a U-Turn table and preamp, with a bottom of the line Yamaha amp and Elac speakers. Collecting old vinyl from flea markets etc.

    Completely OT: Vinyl  --- Paging Mr. Pig....-img_1788.jpg
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  2. #2
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    I've been a huge music fan for a long time, but CDs are king in my book.

    Can't stand the prissiness involved with LPs, but more power to ya.
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    What I am most impressed about with vinyl is how they were properly mastered. Most later production CDs used volume normalizing which unfortunately kills the aural experience. I really hope that the modern vinyl recording techniques are still using the old school non-“exploded” (normalized) technique.
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    What's great is he's being exposed to music he never would have thought of had he not been buying vinyl at flea markets and yards sales etc. How many 17 year olds appreciate Traffic, Country Joe, Mike Bloomfield, Eric Burdon, Curtis Mayfield, etc........

    Also learning so much about the mastering of music and production. Really cool stuff.


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    Around 15 years ago I lived in Rocklin and would hit garage sales and thrift stores, from Auburn to Elk Grove and everywhere in between. I had crates of records! I took some time digging around, probably would have been riding if I rode back then. Might not be worth the effort nowadays, records have only been gaining in popularity since.

    I still have a sizeable collection that I'm planning on thinning. You get tired of moving these things around.

    But, I still enjoy having them around, don't get me wrong! Have fun!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Around 15 years ago I lived in Rocklin and would hit garage sales and thrift stores, from Auburn to Elk Grove and everywhere in between. I had crates of records! I took some time digging around, probably would have been riding if I rode back then. Might not be worth the effort nowadays, records have only been gaining in popularity since.

    I still have a sizeable collection that I'm planning on thinning. You get tired of moving these things around.

    But, I still enjoy having them around, don't get me wrong! Have fun!
    PM me when you decide to thin that collection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    PM me when you decide to thin that collection.
    I have multiples of the basic essentials like Floyd and the Stones, and The Beatles (yes I like 'em both!). I could probably part with a few of those if you're interested. I'd have to look and see what else there is. Maybe some Who in there too.
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  8. #8
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    If you wanna talk turntables and vinyl, talk to the Pig :∂) - (or something like that!)

    He'll probably dive in shortly.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    If you wanna talk turntables and vinyl, talk to the Pig :∂) - (or something like that!)

    He'll probably dive in shortly.
    Just paged him.....

  10. #10
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    I sold $2000 worth of rare old bay area punk records to buy a bike. I never listened to them. They just sat on a shelf.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_510 View Post
    I sold $2000 worth of rare old bay area punk records to buy a bike. I never listened to them. They just sat on a shelf.
    Sounds like a good thing to do!


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    My son has recently gotten into vinyl in a big way. Which means I'm now into it too.

    Who's into it? Collections? Advice?

    Right now he has a U-Turn table and preamp, with a bottom of the line Yamaha amp and Elac speakers. Collecting old vinyl from flea markets etc.
    Vinyl as a hobby makes a lot of sense for kids- it's cheap, there's a 'process' to listening to vinyl, and records are hi-fi but not so much that they're transparent. Most importantly they were THE MEDIUM before the loudness wars, and were mastered and mixed on analog to sound pleasing. Well recorded records sound better than 95% of new stuff. Kids can get exposed to tons of interesting music that sounds awesome for peanuts, and there's a cognoscenti aspect.

    I'm not old enough to remember the vinyl era super great, but i can't get excited about it. Like for like digital is superior, and a digital copy of a vinyl album = vinyl. I have a nice system; now i'd rather spend my time exploring music and going to shows.

    My advice is to go listen to more live music! Reaching to vinyl means that the sound and the experience is what's important. My fave spots are cafe stritch, the catalyst, kuumbwa club, and the hotel de anza. Kinda jazz focused, but live jazz is awesome even if it doesn't always translate well to recordings. Heavy metal and punk are like that too.

    cool thread.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    What I am most impressed about with vinyl is how they were properly mastered. Most later production CDs used volume normalizing which unfortunately kills the aural experience.
    Sadly, while there are plenty of new vinyl albums being released and the growth of vinyl shows no sign of slowing, most of them are just the digital/CD master dumped onto black plastic. I guess they don't want to pay to master twice, have forgotten how, don't think it matters but whatever the reason, new releases seldom sound as good as older ones. They're often ok, but not epic and sometimes really crap.

    It's hard to put a finger on why vinyl is so good. Both vinyl and CD/digital can sound great but the key difference is how easy it is to achieve. Vinyl is analog and any distortion is also analoge, usually, so it doesn't sound too unpleasant. As an old engineer once said to me 'We don't have fechin digital ears'. Digital distortion doesn't bear any relationship to the music whatsoever and it can really sound horrible. Often we don't realise that's what the problem is, we just know we'd rather turn off the music and watch TV. A good vinyl system draws you in, pulls your attention deeper into the music. You can get a digital system to do that, but it's not easy! ;0)

    The upshot is that even a modest vinyl system can provide great satisfaction and encourage a deeper love and appreciation for music. Just because it hides its flaws well doesn't mean it's not worth getting better kit obviously and the most important part is the deck itself.

    Simple advice, buy a Rega! New ones are great, old ones are still great and Rega can supply parts for any turntable they've ever made. Simple, well made and great sounding.

    Lots of good used turntables too but typically will need a bit more work to get right and without knowing what to look for it's easy to buy a dog. Having said that, most of the old decks I've dealt with were fundamentally ok. If there were issues they were obvious and often not that hard to fix. If you do look at vintage turntables though avoid anything with broken parts, commonly say a cracked lid or broken armrest, as it's very difficult to find replacements.

    I could rabbit on all day about vinyl! ;0) Is there anything specifically you want to know?

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    It is interesting how kids are getting back into vinyl (my daughter recently got into it), even scouring what used record shops that are left. My wife and I both grew up in the vinyl era, worked in cool used record shops, etc. Held on to all our treasured records (hundreds) and always have had a turntable set up. I did buy an NOS Technics turntable as a replacement couple of years ago, too bad they don't make them anymore.

    If you haven't see the movie High Fidelity check it out, really captures the used record shop vibe. Jack Black is classic...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rglsr View Post
    I did buy an NOS Technics turntable as a replacement couple of years ago, too bad they don't make them anymore.
    They do! Technics stopped making the SL1200-based decks years ago but when they saw the resurgence in vinyl they brought it back. You can buy several new Technics turntables today at various price points. I've not heard one, but ears that have tell me they are good.

    Yip, plenty of choice out there both in new and used turntables. Lots of new vinyl, lots of used vinyl, all going very well :0)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post

    Vinyl is analog and any distortion is also analoge, usually, so it doesn't sound too unpleasant. As an old engineer once said to me 'We don't have fechin digital ears'. Digital distortion doesn't bear any relationship to the music whatsoever and it can really sound horrible.
    Audio compression from clipping only occurs if you are clipping the input signal. If you don't clip the signal there's no issue. If you clip the signal at the amp there's no difference in the clipping behavior.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by djjohnr View Post
    Audio compression from clipping only occurs if you are clipping the input signal. If you don't clip the signal there's no issue. If you clip the signal at the amp there's no difference in the clipping behavior.
    Clipping isn't the only kind of distortion. If it was, a plastic Hi-Fi from the supermarket would sound the same as one costing thousands! There are lots of ways digital systems can introduce distortion. Even getting the bits off the disk is imperfect, which is why every CD player ever built has an error correction section.

    But you don't to know any of this stuff, you just need ears! ;0)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Clipping isn't the only kind of distortion. If it was, a plastic Hi-Fi from the supermarket would sound the same as one costing thousands! There are lots of ways digital systems can introduce distortion. Even getting the bits off the disk is imperfect, which is why every CD player ever built has an error correction section.

    But you don't to know any of this stuff, you just need ears! ;0)
    There are just as many ways to introduce distortion into an analog signal chain, and distortion is most definitely clipping. You can have soft clipping or hard clipping, but it's still clipping. Don't get me wrong, I've spent 25+ years DJing, most of that vinyl. There are things I'll always love more about vinyl, but sound quality isn't one of them. I've also sat with one of the best engineers on the west coast while they cut my vinyl master; there is quite a bit of manipulation you need to do to your master in order to deal with the idiosyncrasies of vinyl. In comparison it's much easier to get your original vision across in a lossless digital file.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Clipping isn't the only kind of distortion. If it was, a plastic Hi-Fi from the supermarket would sound the same as one costing thousands! There are lots of ways digital systems can introduce distortion. Even getting the bits off the disk is imperfect, which is why every CD player ever built has an error correction section.

    But you don't to know any of this stuff, you just need ears! ;0)
    Cheap supermarket stereo sound bad because of analog distortion- shitty speakers, no incentive to build sophisticated electronics behind them.

    You don't have to spend a mountain of money to get an audibly transparent digital source, heck a 15$ behringer dac is transparent until you're spending thousands. Sure makes the hifi hobby boring though.

    If you say anything about the holes between the bits I'm gonna get you a foil hat. 🎓
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  20. #20
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    I googled that U-Turn turntable and it looks impressive. While I've never heard one I'm familiar enough with all of the design elements to be sure it will sound good. I would expect it to be a match for a mid-priced ProJect at least.

    Of particular note is the unipivot tonearm. An inspired choice as they are cheap and simple to make yet offer very nice performance benefits. I would expect that turntable to happily accept a much better cartridge than it ships with. If it was mine, that's what I'd be looking to change next ;0)

  21. #21
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    Into records forever, own about 1,000 CDs but now I mostly stream hi rez off Tidal. So convenient and lots of the content sounds amazing. I am mostly done with CDs everywhere and cleaning every record before play. I got a small box that just never wants to stop playing music. When it runs out of selected music by me, it plays music similar to what I was previously listening to. But the best part is the thousands of tracks I never heard before available to me at a moments touch of my finger. Now I discover new music I like at almost every sitting. That never happened much with records or CDs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Advice?

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    Invest your money in a good stylus and a vinyl cleaning system. Also, isolate the TT as much as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djjohnr View Post
    There are just as many ways to introduce distortion into an analog signal chain, and distortion is most definitely clipping. You can have soft clipping or hard clipping, but it's still clipping.
    Ah, so you're a DJ? That explains it ;0)

    Frank, the engineer I mentioned above, built nigh-club systems among other things. By that I mean he manufactured the amps, speakers etc, not just bought them in. I was in his factory one day, idly looking at one of his big amps, and noticed a knob on the back. I asked him what the knob was for and, not a word of a lie, this is exactly what he said:

    He put down his soldering iron, turned to face and in a gentle voice said "Look. What you've got to realise is that DJs are like normal people, just like you and me, but with their fechin brains removed!"

    He explained that as far as a DJ is concerned, the only place the volume knob should be is at the end stop. Doesn't matter how bad it sounds, they're all deaf anyway. So he'd put a gain knob on the back of the amp so that when they installed the system they could set the maximum possible level at something nice. The DJs wouldn't know the knob was there so couldn't turn it up any louder! Rather sneaky I thought ;0)

    But meanwhile, back at the ranch. No, clipping is not the only kind of distortion. Jitter, a timing issue, is not clipping. Crosstalk is not clipping. An SPDIF cable can suffer reflections which are not clipping. Clipping is just one way in which a signal can get messed up, but there are a lot.

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    Umm...ok. If you'll notice in my original post I mention whether the source signal is being clipped or at the amp...ie not at the end of the chain like your engineer friend's statement above. If you want to fall back on stereotypes of DJs...ok. I've spent years setting up and tuning systems. I've been a musician even longer, and have spent a considerable amount of time working on the craft of studio recording.

    Now if you want to have a conversation without personal attacks - if you consider crosstalk and jitter distortion that's reasonable. I think of them as their own separate issues.

    In my opinion, vinyl has some great benefits, but it doesn't have inherently better sound quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Into records forever, own about 1,000 CDs but now I mostly stream hi rez off Tidal. So convenient and lots of the content sounds amazing. I am mostly done with CDs everywhere and cleaning every record before play. I got a small box that just never wants to stop playing music. When it runs out of selected music by me, it plays music similar to what I was previously listening to. But the best part is the thousands of tracks I never heard before available to me at a moments touch of my finger. Now I discover new music I like at almost every sitting. That never happened much with records or CDs.
    Totally off topic, but that looks like a nice 964 in your avatar image.
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    He put this stylus on it: Ortofon 2M Red.

    Do you guys think turntable weights are necessary. He has a high density acrylic platter and pad on it now.

    I just ordered the SpinClean system. Any good?

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    Thanks, good to know. Looks like they are the higher end range, I've owned a few and they were always good performers for the $$$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djjohnr View Post
    In my opinion, vinyl has some great benefits, but it doesn't have inherently better sound quality.
    That depends on how you define better. I'm sure there are many reasons why kids are getting into vinyl but one is that, compared to the typical digital they've grown up with, records sound lovely. Can digital sound lovely? Yes it can. I'd say my CD player sounds as good as my turntable. Different, better in some ways and worse in others but overall just as satisfying and my turntable is a state of the art four-grand turntable. But that's not what we are talking about here.

    We're not talking about what is ultimately possible from each format. I accept both are potentially good. We are talking about the nature of the sound you get from players in general at all price points. Bottom line is that it's much easier to get a turntable-based system to sound sweet and musical than a digital one. If this wasn't the case, I don't think vinyl would still be around.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    He put this stylus on it: Ortofon 2M Red.
    Excellent choice. I think the 2M range represents great value and they have a really good, well balanced sound. One of my all-time favorite MM cartridges is the Ortofon VMS 20e MkII and the Red is very similar. It's not quite as good but it's the same kind of sound. I'm actually using a 2M Black just now and it's an amazing cartridge for a MM cart. It's a very good cart, period, not just for a MM.

    Record weights change the sound, rather than improving it. Personally, I don't like them. I think they rob the sound of life and energy. More to the point, bear in mind that they add weight to the platter assembly and it wasn't designed for it. The deck may run slow and the extra weight may impact on the life of the bearing. I would only ever consider using a weight on a turntable that was designed for one.

    To be honest, I would expect that turntable to be sounding very sweet. Putting it on a lightweight wall shelf would be good but other than that I think you'll see bigger gains from upgrading something else. I don't think you'd see a significant improvement on that turntable until you got to a mid range Rega.

    Record cleaning is a whole other can of worms! My simple answer would be to avoid doing it unless the record is really bad. The problem there is that if the record is really bad, cleaning probably won't fix it! Get good at checking the condition of the record before you hand over the cash and if it doesn't look perfect, don't buy it.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I just ordered the SpinClean system. Any good?
    I was interested so I found a video: https://youtu.be/DaUKsA_yytA

    Seems like a lot of work and wasted cleaner, unless you have a lot of records to clean, maybe you could get a bottle to store the mixed cleaner for more uses.

    I have a few Discwasher kits I've picked up over the years that work well enough for me. https://youtu.be/4cn4OzPPfdY
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    Completely OT: Vinyl --- Paging Mr. Pig....

    Growing up in the Southeast blues music was always around, like literally on every corner there was a juke joint. My mom has my grandfathers collection of blues records, mostly local stuff from around NC, MS, GA etc that was recorded and given out as promos etc. Unfortunately they are nearly all 78s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    He put this stylus on it: Ortofon 2M Red.

    Do you guys think turntable weights are necessary. He has a high density acrylic platter and pad on it now.

    I just ordered the SpinClean system. Any good?
    SpinClean is fine, just make sure you get everything off. The vacuum cleaner systems are really nice but not completely necessary.

    Weights - there's positives and negatives. They can add a little bit of stabilization, and they can smooth out warped records. However, turntables aren't often designed with them in mind so they can cause wear. U-turn has sold them in the past so you're probably fine there though. For stabilization your best bet are some stabilization feet. They can make a difference if your console is on something like hardwood floors (as in the pic), especially at higher volumes.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    My mom has my grandfathers collection of blues records, mostly local stuff from around NC, MS, GA etc that was recorded and given out as promos etc. Unfortunately they are nearly all 78s.
    Interesting you should mention that, as I have just bought one of these: LINK I'm waiting for it to arrive. Current version but the same thing. It lets select different EQ values for different records, including 78.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Interesting you should mention that, as I have just bought one of these: LINK I'm waiting for it to arrive. Current version but the same thing. It lets select different EQ values for different records, including 78.
    Cool! Will check this out. Would be cool to bring guys like this back to life on 78s.


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    That is good.

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    Well, that was disappointing. I read the thread title and expected some really kinky vinyl wear with strategic cutouts.

    I have a 49 year old acoustic research turntable that I recently began using to digitize some of the huge old collection of classical and rock LPs. Now, if only one of our two reel to reel decks worked, I could resuscitate some of the miles of tape too.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    Well, that was disappointing. I read the thread title and expected some really kinky vinyl wear with strategic cutouts.
    You need access to the Moderator Only section for that kind of thing.

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    audiokarma is the mtbr of the audio equipment world.

    I was missing a ground wire for a couple tables and found out how to make one there. Also was looking into DIY belts on the cheap.
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    I have a vintage turntable, tube amp and speakers. I've got hundreds of records almost all from thrift stores back after everyone ditched their vinyl in the 90s. San Jose used to be a gold mine of records and other collectibles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I've got hundreds of records almost all from thrift stores back after everyone ditched their vinyl in the 90s.
    I did buy quite a lot but I missed a few great opportunities. One guy at a boot sale had a box of records he was getting rid of 'cos it's CD now' and I bought about half a dozen. Looking back I wish I'd made him an offer for the box as the records I bought were mint. He just wanted rid of them and I'm sure I could've had the lot fairly cheaply.

    Having said that, I bought over twenty new LPs at Christmas and I still haven't listened to them all.

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    5K50, Since you're in the NorthBay... If you ever find yourself out in Duncans Mills, there's a junk/antique shop with thousands of albums. It would take weeks to catalog everything that hey have in there, but it's fun to peruse. I just picked up some classics this last weekend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    5K50, Since you're in the NorthBay... If you ever find yourself out in Duncans Mills, there's a junk/antique shop with thousands of albums. It would take weeks to catalog everything that hey have in there, but it's fun to peruse. I just picked up some classics this last weekend.
    Thanks man! Will check it out when I’m up that way.

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    Just a little tip. If you like buying used records and have a lot of vinyl that is in less than brilliant condition it's worth bearing in mind that you can tailor your turntable to be forgiving of worn records. The most obvious example is the cartridge. Some will exacerbate surface noise more than others. Typically carts with extended contact stylus profiles, like Shibita or Micro-Line, make more of pops and clicks. Other carts are specifically designed to be quiet with poor vinyl, like the Denon DL-103 which has a spherical stylus despite not being a cheap cart.

    Some turntables are worse than others too, it's something to keep in mind when shopping.

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    A record cleaner works wonders too. I can't believe the fidelity of some old records after a cleaning.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    A record cleaner works wonders too. I can't believe the fidelity of some old records after a cleaning.
    I've never had great luck with them. I've found that cleaning records using basic methods works just as well. I have a friend who spent two grand on a machine and I've had records cleaned with that. I've also had them cleaned in a shop on a machine that was crazy expensive. Neither were much better than washing in the sink or wood glue.

  46. #46
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    I have a $199 manual model. You put the stuff on and it vacuums it off and it makes a huge difference. I've heard a shop vac can do this as well. What's the wood glue way?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    What's the wood glue way?
    You paint wood glue/PVA over the playing surface of the record. When the glue is dry you peel it off, lifting the dirt with it. Get it right and it works surprisingly well. Pain if you get it wrong though.

    My local shop has a Keith Monks machine. My Friend has a Loricraft. I have a sink ;0)

  48. #48
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    I think I have a budget Record Doctor or something. You have to turn the record and it really works. I don't mind a little dust anyway.

  49. #49
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    I have wanted to get a nice Hi Fi setup for a while now. I currently just have an Amazon Echo Dot hooked up to some bookshelf speakers and a sub. It sounds OK. Much better than any sort of mobile speaker pod that a lot of people use. I want something similar to what everyone had in the '80s, plus the echo dot.

  50. #50
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    Cleaning some records. Will see how it turns out.


  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    You paint wood glue/PVA over the playing surface of the record. When the glue is dry you peel it off, lifting the dirt with it. Get it right and it works surprisingly well. Pain if you get it wrong though.

    My local shop has a Keith Monks machine. My Friend has a Loricraft. I have a sink ;0)
    I saw a video of someone washing a disc off in a kitchen sink, with the standard kitchen brush, dish soap and everything, it was hard to watch!

    I was looking for that video and found the glue method instead. Not sure I have any records that are bad enough to need this, but good to know I guess.

    By continuing to browse my posts, you agree to send chazpat cookies.

  52. #52
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    Prog rock, vinyl, and vacuum tubes. That's what I like.
    Check out the Vinyl Asylum on the AA,
    https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html

    SHIF

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by shif View Post
    Prog rock, vinyl, and vacuum tubes. That's what I like.
    I understand why people like valve amps, and I like some of those aspects myself, but I've never heard a valve amp I wanted to own. Despite the clear shortcomings of solid state amps, I still prefer them.

  54. #54
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    Is anybody using the good old DJ standard Technics 1200s? I used to have a pair of the Technics 1200 MK2 direct drive turntables. I thought they were excellent. Of course, having a quality needle/cartridge was a big deal in terms of fidelity. The Tech 1200s were the standard not long ago.

  55. #55
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    Those Technics are always looked down on by audiophiles, but I happen to like the durability and operation. I'm glad they are making them again.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Those Technics are always looked down on by audiophiles..
    I think that's changing. Back in the day there was a lot of negative propaganda against not just the SL1200 but Jap decks in general. Some of the criticism was fair enough but the bottom line was that neither the Brits or the Americans had a rat's chance of building a turntable as complex as the 1200, at a reasonable price point, so they had to attack them somehow.

    My local 'proper' Hi-Fi shop now has a Technics turntable on the shelves alongside the more usual UK specialist brands like Linn, Naim Rega etc. You would never have seen that twenty years ago.

    Having said that, while the Technics is a good turntable, if you can live without some of the features you will get a better sounding turntable for similar money from a specialist brand.

  57. #57
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    What would you recommend for a good "budget" turnable? I personally am just running a thrift store Dual turntable that used to be commonly available for $5. It is belt drive, but automatic which I don't like. I had a direct drive Dual that developed some horrible buzz, but I got my $5 worth. My system is a $100 Scottkit 299 tube amp and $10 KLH speakers. I picked up a nice Japanese 1980s solid state receiver off the street for free (common in Marin) and would like to set it up with a cheap turntable.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    What would you recommend for a good "budget" turntable?
    Heck of a lot of choice. Simple answer is always, anything by Rega. Newer the better but they've never made a bad one so even old decks still sound great.

    The US used market will look very different from the UK one but generally, stuff that was expensive years ago will still sound decent today if it's working properly. A lot of turntables were bought as part of a system and have seen little use. If the deck is clean and tidy and nothing is loose it's probably a good bet. New belt, fresh oil and you're golden. NB: Rega turntables use a specific thick oil. If you put thinner oil in one it will run fast.

    If you buy an older turntable the other thing you'll want to do is replace the cartridge. Most people run cartridges well past their sell-by dates so chances are the cart on an old turntable will be a record destroyer! No need to spend a lot though, just buy an Audio Technica AT-3600L. These are made in China and you can get them on eBay direct for less than £10, just described as 'Audio Technica Moving Magnet Cartridge'. I've bought a stack of them, about twenty, they've all be fine and are ridiculously good for the money. I'd say it's a waste of time buying anything better until you get the Ortofon 2M Red sort of level.

    Avoid cheap Japanese decks, the ones predominantly made of plastic. ProJect decks sound ok but are very shoddily built.

  59. #59
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    My son likes his U Turn Orbit so far. They seems to be a start up that builds things by hand, which is cool.

    https://uturnaudio.com/

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    Thanks. I always replace the cartridge and it always costs more than the deck. I'm running a Grado on my Dual now, but have some ATs too.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    They seems to be a start up that builds things by hand, which is cool.
    I'm struggling to think of how you could build a turntable any other way ;0)

    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I always replace the cartridge and it always costs more than the deck.
    There isn't a hard and fast rule about that, if you like the results then great, but generally speaking you'll get better results the other way around. A really good turntable with a basic cartridge will sound better than a basic turntable with an expensive cart on it.

    It's a more economical way to go too as cartridges are wear items so there are less tears replacing a cheap one.

  62. #62
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    I was expecting vinyl wraps for bikes...

    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    Well, that was disappointing. I read the thread title and expected some really kinky vinyl wear with strategic cutouts.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I'm struggling to think of how you could build a turntable any other way ;0)
    Yeah, I guess there aren't any big robotic production lines for turntables!

  64. #64
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    Rather unrelated, but my daughter was playing in a course concert last night and, unusually, they stuck it on Youtube. If you click forward to 1 hour 55 minutes you'll see her playing bohemian rhapsody. She's the kid on the far right.


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