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  1. #201
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    I see that they're now stating Sherwen's cause of death was heart failure. That wasn't noted at first.

    In his sleep, as is said; not a bad way to go.

    But 62 is too soon. And Sherwen appeared to keep fit.

    And then there's the angle that he damaged his heart racing bicycles professionally. Or was it genetic?

    Or...?
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  2. #202
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    More share from friend Theral Mackey
    ———-
    Besides the normal stethoscope your doctor uses, which can actually detect problems, there are simple blood tests that can tell if your chest pains are Heart Attack related (troponin proteins). More than that, EKG to make sure your electrical signals are working properly takes longer to setup than to run (maybe 1min setup, 5s to run), and echocardiogram (think ultrasound of your heart) and CT scans for heart structure and function, and on up to more invasive catheterization. Stress tests run you on a treadmill while hooked to an ekg and bloodpressure cuff to check your rhythm and BP/Pulse as your heart is loaded from exercise.
    IPA will save America

  3. #203
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    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    It's called a "Coronary Artery Calcium scan". See more info here: GET A SCAN – No More Broken Hearts
    Thank you FC!

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by RooHarris View Post
    Thank you FC!
    Guys, go get an echo.

    31 and ended up at the ER with heart attack symptoms and elevated troponin levels. Treadmill stress test was clean. All other bloodwork, clean. Was released after 24 hours of observation. EKG’s all clean. No changes with symptoms.

    Ended up in the ER again 24 hours later. Ultrasound showed myocarditis and enlarged aortic root. No infection or inflammation. Two Cat Scans with contrast, showed no clots and no structural issues of the heart, think pinholes, etc. Troponin levels still elevated. Now waiting in genetic testing and on activity restriction and bp/hr meds. Surgery may be required in near futurec

    Reality is that we push ourselves for such short periods and then recover, that we should all at the very least get an echocardiagram (ultrasound of the heart).

    There’s a lot of pre existing conditions that some of us have (including myself) that have no symptoms until we’re dead.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorbacon View Post
    Guys, go get an echo.
    How do you “go get an echo”? Your doctor has to order it. Why would he agree to do that if you have no symptoms or risk factors? Screening echocardiography is not economically feasible and of no benefit (Tromso Study). You could probably “go get an echo” if you wanted to pay for it, likely about $1500 or more. Otherwise.....nope.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    How do you “go get an echo”? Your doctor has to order it. Why would he agree to do that if you have no symptoms or risk factors? Screening echocardiography is not economically feasible and of no benefit (Tromso Study). You could probably “go get an echo” if you wanted to pay for it, likely about $1500 or more. Otherwise.....nope.
    If you're paying "out-of-pocket" you can probably get any test you want. For those with insurance when one hits 65 and Medicare it becomes a whole new game regardless of whatever supplemental insurance one might have.

    If it doesn't fit a Medicare protocol it isn't going to happen.

    From the above study and this it seems that if a stethoscope doesn't pick up a murmur then the echocardiogram isn't worth it.
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  7. #207
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    What are your qualifications?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    How do you “go get an echo”? Your doctor has to order it. Why would he agree to do that if you have no symptoms or risk factors? Screening echocardiography is not economically feasible and of no benefit (Tromso Study). You could probably “go get an echo” if you wanted to pay for it, likely about $1500 or more. Otherwise.....nope.
    Since you have commented several times in this thread, could you tell me what your qualifications are to be so convinced of your positions? If you are a professional medical person, please weigh in with some more support for the rest of us who are slogging through life trying to be good to our bodies, and exercising to benefit it at the same time. I started this thread as a way to understand A-Fib better. Thank you for any input of support.

  8. #208
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    If you're paying "out-of-pocket" you can probably get any test you want.
    Maybe, maybe not, but it is certainly worth asking if you feel strongly about it.

    But think this through. If you are asking for a test your doc does not think is worth doing, who will receive the results? Are you qualified to review them if they are borderline? It all sounds simple until it isn't.

    Bottom line: stay informed, but work with a trained medical professional.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by RooHarris View Post
    Since you have commented several times in this thread, could you tell me what your qualifications are to be so convinced of your positions? If you are a professional medical person, please weigh in with some more support for the rest of us who are slogging through life trying to be good to our bodies, and exercising to benefit it at the same time. I started this thread as a way to understand A-Fib better. Thank you for any input of support.
    I've been a physician for 40 years.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    I've been a physician for 40 years.
    My wife is a doc. Her advice to me, 'stop reading the interwebs about health issues, the worry/stress you'll get from reading quack science will outweigh any benefit.'

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    My wife is a doc. Her advice to me, 'stop reading the interwebs about health issues, the worry/stress you'll get from reading quack science will outweigh any benefit.'
    😁 so true. Like most doctors, I read medical journals every day. One of the things doctors learn very early is how to take medical literature in context, evaluate the quality of the research, and discard the crap. Shakespear said “the devil can cite scripture for his purpose”. It’s not hard to find medical literature to support even the most bizarre of ideas.

  12. #212
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    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    I've been a physician for 40 years.
    I appreciate your candor here. Can you add anything more to this discussion? Many of us are very healthy but lack guidance in health care issues. Thanks again for your perspective.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by RooHarris View Post
    I appreciate your candor here. Can you add anything more to this discussion? Many of us are very healthy but lack guidance in health care issues. Thanks again for your perspective.
    Not sure where I'd start. Cardiac health is a huge topic with a huge degree of variability among patients, and prognosis is so often multifactorial and tied into genetics that there is no one-size-fits-all set of advice. There are some common threads, but so many of the symptoms, and so much of the diagnosis and management is individual that it's hard, on the internet, to parse the nuances of any particular poster's situation.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by RooHarris View Post
    I appreciate your candor here. Can you add anything more to this discussion?
    Malpractice comes to mind! 😳😬😜
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  15. #215
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    Should we start singing "I left my heart in San Francisco " or would that be considered insensitive?

    Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    FFS, don’t you have a doctor?

    Of course any ethical doctor is not going to give any type of guidance to people who are not their patient. Especially over the Internet.

    Your naïveté is absolutely mind-boggling.
    #harsh I’m just saying.....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  17. #217
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    Read the whole thread please...

    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    FFS, don’t you have a doctor?

    Of course any ethical doctor is not going to give any type of guidance to people who are not their patient. Especially over the Internet.

    Your naïveté is absolutely mind-boggling.
    Sorry to boggle your mind. Hopefully, it doesn't hurt too much. It appears you have not read the entire thread and what its purpose was when I started it. Good information there for many of us. I do have several doctors who I ride with and we talk up this stuff all the time. I would rather be informed if that is what you consider to be naïve. Lighten up a little, it's good for your heart!

  18. #218
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    the latest Apple WatchOS update has the EKG functionality available for public use.

    pretty cool. obviously it is limited, but anything helps.

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  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by shapethings View Post
    the latest Apple WatchOS update has the EKG functionality available for public use.

    pretty cool. obviously it is limited, but anything helps.

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    Potentially valuable for someone with atrial fibrillation, or especially someone with a history of atrial fibrillation, or someone who has had atrial fibrillation, been converted or ablated, and is on medication to prevent it. Otherwise, a single-lead EKG is of pretty limited value in the overall scheme of cardiac diseases. There are many reasons one might get an Apple Watch Series 4. Its ability to get a lead II rhythm strip is going to be pretty low on the list for most people. Unless you want an AW4 for its many other sophisticated capabilities, certainly a cheaper option to keep you apprised of your a-fib status would be Kardia at $99.

    No disrespect to Apple...the EKG thing is a brilliant marketing gambit.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    Google can be a useful tool but it’s not a substitute for 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 4+ years of formal specialty training, and actually doing that work day in and day out.
    Google indexes far more knowledge than 4 year of some school. It is also not distracted and overworked.

    I used to teach physics to premeds. I don't trust them that much.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Google indexes far more knowledge than 4 year of some school. It is also not distracted and overworked.

    I used to teach physics to premeds. I don't trust them that much.
    It's parsing the information that's tricky, not finding it. Evaluating medical literature is part of medical training. Pre-med students have/get about the same medical education as business majors. Pre-med is about acquiring a basic understanding of some science disciplines (like physics) so that they have a framework for understanding WTF their medical school professors are talking about during the first two years (basic science portion) of medical school. There is virtually no clinical education in a pre-med course of study.

    I wouldn't trust either pre-med students or physics teachers at all when it comes to evaluating medical literature and translating its value into clinical practice.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    I wouldn't trust either pre-med students or physics teachers at all when it comes to evaluating medical literature and translating its value into clinical practice.
    I've had several experiences in the last decade or so where the doctor (a couple times my PCP and a couple of times my late parent's) said (without compunction) "let's Google that"---what Axe said about indexed knowledge is very true. The layperson can't parse much of it; certainly a welcome shortcut for the Doc's.

    It was nice for the physician to be able to further explain some underlying symptom or medication choice right from his/her laptop without having to retreat to an office library to find a paragraph among tens of thousands of paper pages.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    I've had several experiences in the last decade or so where the doctor (a couple times my PCP and a couple of times my late parent's) said (without compunction) "let's Google that"---what Axe said about indexed knowledge is very true. The layperson can't parse much of it; certainly a welcome shortcut for the Doc's.

    It was nice for the physician to be able to further explain some underlying symptom or medication choice right from his/her laptop without having to retreat to an office library to find a paragraph among tens of thousands of paper pages.
    Therein lies the difference between information and knowledge.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    I've had several experiences in the last decade or so where the doctor (a couple times my PCP and a couple of times my late parent's) said (without compunction) "let's Google that"---what Axe said about indexed knowledge is very true. The layperson can't parse much of it; certainly a welcome shortcut for the Doc's.

    It was nice for the physician to be able to further explain some underlying symptom or medication choice right from his/her laptop without having to retreat to an office library to find a paragraph among tens of thousands of paper pages.
    All of our exam rooms have a big screen monitor on the wall slaved to the computer on the desk. I use it all the time for that, but mostly for the graphics and animations that are all over Google via the "Images" and "Videos" buttons. Much more explanatory than what I can draw, and free.

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