Results 1 to 52 of 52
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    426

    Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,

    Seriously, would be nice to have some legit trails like this that are public... tired of the trail drama and rules lately.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaHJ...5PlvluIFqn%3A6

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    345
    They have one powerful group (Walmart) who can buy off the state. Pretty sure I saw it took them something crazy like 70 million to build those trails.

    California has many powerful user groups that stop that from happening.

    Edit: see farther down it was 26 million.
    Last edited by cassieno; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:41 PM.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    109
    Arkansas also needs people to move there...California of course does not.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    293
    Should probably look at Evergreen MTB Alliance in Washington for inspiration. Really, it should be the model for all MTB organizations.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RoscoP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    73
    The obnoxious old people who keep us off trails in norcal are the same groups responsible for protecting much of our green space. Without those nimby assholes there wouldn't be cool trails to be excluded from.

    I just wish more of our large swaths of private timber land could be opened to recreation. That's another area Washington has a huge advantage is legally protecting land owners who allow access.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yahooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    105
    Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-6596b42f-fc2f-4575-8dc3-ab8e8458da1e.jpgCali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-0f3d42fb-e544-444b-be1c-e3669e6da5d9.jpgCali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-fb400c12-2505-48b0-849a-9987ec70e703.jpgCali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-61df04c2-f612-4a2e-9fd4-3582507f8213.jpgCali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-c2afde79-49bf-4e35-b227-2185d2de2854.jpgCali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-8cd2c1b1-3ae2-400a-a1f1-b42b7b197c76.jpgCali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-1df4aa5d-6651-4f07-b02b-7e1095cd3a67.jpg

    I grew up hiking Arkansas trails and have always drooled at the idea of riding them (mtn biking didnít exist when I was a kid).

    This past June I went to a family reunion in the Ozarks (que Deliverence banjo) and brought my mtn bike to give the trails a roll. Holy S were they awesome- there is a 1,500 acre city park, Lake Leatherwood, that, thanks to a $1M Walton Foundation (AKA Walmart) grant, has incredible mountain bike trails. Many lines for all levels, huge smooth bank turns, flattops, nice drops with go arounds for the faint hearted, doubles of all sizes, a scary ďwood bonerĒ drop (see pic) and nteresting XC trails to get back to the top of the DH runs. Hate to say it but they were waaay better than anything Iíve ridden in CA and elsewhere. They hired a mtn trail construction company out of MI who made several DH and XC loops for all levels. Even the green circle trails were a blast to rip down.

    The small towns up there welcome mountain bikers because of the tourist dollars. I read somewhere that the Foundation has invested $26M in mtn bike trail development in AR and that in one year alone it brought a $32M return to the state (donít quote me on the numbers but if not right on they are close).

    Bentonville, home of Wallyís world, is covered in fun XC trails that connect sudivisions through large wooded corridors. The famous ďBack 40Ē is one of these trails. Iím sure they have to deal with environmental regulations (obviously not CEQA though) but it seems like the overall community is completely supportive so trails happen. Wish we could make that happen here because the result for us is fíin incredible. I canít wait to go back.

  7. #7
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Should probably look at Evergreen MTB Alliance in Washington for inspiration. Really, it should be the model for all MTB organizations.
    Yup. The Bentonville stuff was meh to me. Ok, but I sure wouldn't ever fly there just to ride those trails. Washington state on the other hand, I've done it several times and I'll continue. Lots of high quality stuff with so much variety.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,851
    Also, residents in CA keep voting in the people that will try to restrict and control access to public lands (among other things). So if you don't like the policies try voting for different people.

  9. #9
    Trail Gnome
    Reputation: griz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,442
    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    Also, residents in CA keep voting in the people that will try to restrict and control access to public lands (among other things). So if you don't like the policies try voting for different people.
    ďIf you donít like whoís in there, vote em outĒ
    -Willie Nelson 2018

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yahooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yup. The Bentonville stuff was meh to me. Ok, but I sure wouldn't ever fly there just to ride those trails.
    Jayem-
    I agree with your perspective on the Bentonville trails- they are nice and pretty but are more not so technical XC and not so adrenaline filled. However the trails in the video above look way more exciting- I think those must be in the Bentonville area.

    The trails I am excited about are the Lake Leatherwood trails- they are close to Eureka Springs AR and about 45 minutes from Bentonville and are super high adrenaline. BTW itís pretty darn cheap to fly straight to Bentonville.

    Iíve ridden a couple of trails in WA and agree that they are spectacular.

  11. #11
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,915
    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    Also, residents in CA keep voting in the people that will try to restrict and control access to public lands (among other things). So if you don't like the policies try voting for different people.
    You know, Iíd rather vote in people who restrict access to some types of recreation on some public lands than vote for people who would sell it off.

    But thatís just me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  12. #12
    Birthday Collector
    Reputation: ATBScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    You know, Iíd rather vote in people who restrict access to some types of recreation on some public lands than vote for people who would sell it off.

    But thatís just me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Wouldn't it be nice if there was some middle ground on the part of our elected (or appointed) officials? How come it seems to be one extreme or the other?
    I haven't been to Arkansas to ride, though it interests me. Just a long way to go to test the water! Done some riding in Washington, and like it a lot - have found some fun trails minutes from my mom's place - good reason to visit more! Same with Oregon. Idaho is next on the list, all the years I've been riding MTB (god, 40 years now...) and never made it to ID to ride...
    R.I.P. Corky 10/97-4/09
    Disclaimer: I sell and repair bikes for a living


  13. #13
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Yahooo View Post
    Jayem-
    I agree with your perspective on the Bentonville trails- they are nice and pretty but are more not so technical XC and not so adrenaline filled. However the trails in the video above look way more exciting- I think those must be in the Bentonville area.

    The trails I am excited about are the Lake Leatherwood trails- they are close to Eureka Springs AR and about 45 minutes from Bentonville and are super high adrenaline. BTW itís pretty darn cheap to fly straight to Bentonville.

    Iíve ridden a couple of trails in WA and agree that they are spectacular.
    They don't have a lot of vertical to work with, there are places in AR, away from Bentonville's rolling hills and Leatherwood, that have much more vertical, but they aren't "building" there. The temperature is pretty oppressive in the summer time (and the ticks!) and then in the winter, well, no reason I'd ever go there vs. Arizona or somewhere that doesn't get ice-storms.

    It's cool there are trails and maybe if you lived as far away as Tulsa, it makes sense. Apart from that, it appears to be a big tax-write-off for Walmart, which again, is still a good thing. I'd rather they do that then a million other things that don't really give back and don't promote healthy lifestyles. That means it's more on the riders around there to keep it running, so hopefully that happens.

    WA on the other hand has everything all over the state. Tiger Mountain, Olympic Mountains, Capital Forest, Bellingham, Mt. St. Helens, and those are just a couple, there are far far more. Everything from wet redwoods to fern rainforests to alpine to dry desert and everything in between. The thing that amazed me was so much quality trail, trail that had been maintained at least sometime in the last decade, trail that could be used to make big rides, or trails in much smaller/isolated places that could be used to "escape" the city.

    The trail development is what I really like about WA, all over the state. We are finally starting to ramp up things in AK and have built several new challenging trails in the municipality. There are finally some decent plans to start linking major trail systems on the Kenai Peninsula and come up with some several-hundred-mile routes across portions of the state. Quite a few areas around here have grants and active plans in process to expand and build trails, so again, it seems like we are finally doing it.

    Trail development is great, yes, great that Bentonville and AR are seeing the value of it, I hope it doesn't collapse, but I'd really look more to Evergreen as a state-wide organization that builds and maintains all levels of trails. It's like what they've done in ARx1000.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  14. #14
    mtb'er
    Reputation: Empty_Beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,900
    Evergreen mostly has their shit together and are an excellent example of getting stuff done. But they did fumble the Wilderness issue, with their "Well we totally agree with it but Bernie Sanders didn't sponsor it so we can't trust it" mentality. (https://www.evergreenmtb.org/blog/bi...washington-mtb)

    I am envious of what is happening in Arkansas. When I went to Interbike a couple years ago, I noticed "Arkansas State Parks" had a booth. I thought that was odd. I stopped to chat with a really nice older guy. He showed me a lot of trail porn. He mentioned a new trail that just got built that added something like 22 miles to the network. I asked him how long it took from someone saying "We should put a trail here" to actually moving dirt. He said, "Oh man... it was a real bummer. We almost had it done within a year but were delayed a few months by some paperwork." I almost started crying. I told him with CA State Parks, it would likely take 15 years minimum from concept to shovels hitting the ground. He was all:

    Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-sideeyechloe.jpg

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,093
    I think Colorado is a better model to look at. There are tons of trails along the Front Range and cyclists, hikers, and equestrians seem to get along just fine. Boulder is sort of like Marin County - lots of rich former hippies, but although mountain biking is limited in the area near the Flatirons, it's allowed most everywhere else. The mountain biking there makes the Bay Area look really sad and pathetic.

    My experience with Washington State is somewhat limited, but it didn't seem all that special compared to Colorado or Utah. Maybe it's because I like dry and rocky instead of wet and loamy. I'm also not a fan of clearcut forests, although there are lots of wild berries in those areas.

    Arkansas might as well be in a different country. (It's close to Texas, so it kind of is). You can't really compare it to California. But what can you compare to the Bay Area? It's really it's own little world with it's own weird logic. Marin is seriously mentally ill when it comes to MTB. And then there are the radar guns and speed traps in the Mid Peninsula area... I'm almost surprised that anybody bothers to ride mountain bikes here after awhile. It's kind of like all the surfers at Pacifica waiting to compete for that one crappy wave, year after year.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    686
    Quote Originally Posted by RoscoP View Post
    I just wish more of our large swaths of private timber land could be opened to recreation. That's another area Washington has a huge advantage is legally protecting land owners who allow access.
    CA has very similar laws (aka Recrational Use Statutes). MTB is explicitly called out in them as an activity which land owners are protected from if they allow free (as in pay-zero-dollar) access.

  17. #17
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    But what can you compare to the Bay Area?
    Seattle compares well, there are a lot of smaller trail-areas in and around the Sound. I'm not talking about the greater trails of the state, just the stuff in and around the Sound, go look at it on Trailforks.

    Phoenix compares well too, lots of "mountain parks" in the city limits.

    In both of these cases, the trails in many of these parks aren't necessarily crazy long, but some of them do link to much more extensive networks or trails that go far into the wilderness.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
    Bipolar roller
    Reputation: singletrackmack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    979
    Quote Originally Posted by m3the01 View Post
    Bay Area where did we go wrong?
    FIFY.

    The amount of love that there is for MTB up in the mountains of California is unbelievable. I moved from the east bay to Tahoe. Can you say mind f*ckn blown?

    The Bay Area is where the money is, not where the fun is.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.
    .

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: flipnidaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    7,139
    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post

    The Bay Area is where the money is, not where the fun is.
    Very true.

  20. #20
    fc
    fc is online now
    head minion Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    31,559
    Agree with most everyone so far.

    We are a nation of claims - my gold claim, my beach, my hilltop, my trail. Whoever arrives first arrives first or has the most money takes the resource as their own, for their clan and for their usergroup.

    And there's very little desire to share access to groups or activities that one doesn't participate in. But if they participate in an activity, access must be protected to the deathbed.

    If you are a late arriving usergroup like skateboarding, biking, scooter, snowboard, you are screwed. The only way around it is job creation, money, lawsuit, or mass uproar. And it usually takes a generation to gain access. So you have little chance but your kids and grandkids might.

    California is worse since there's more demand for the land and there's more existing money. And perhaps the early settlers were more settling/claim types.

    So there. The way around it is time, organization, outskirt towns that need economy. Get the billionaires on your side and use social media and mass awareness as your tools. And get people to ride bikes. If they ride a bike or if their grandkid races in a league, they will relate to it and fight for it.Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-320.jpg

    The good news is they're prototyping now and forging the path for other to follow in Bentonville, Asheville, Bend, Durango, Bellingham and many more.
    IPA will save America

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    422
    It seems there are two areas in CA, ones that are densely populated and ones that are not. They are not the same for land use, trail access and development. In general land managers are in control of access, it has nothing to do with the state laws, regulations or voting.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    Also, residents in CA keep voting in the people that will try to restrict and control access to public lands (among other things). So if you don't like the policies try voting for different people.
    California, like my home state, Illinois, is long lost. No amount of voting is going to fix it. The only solution for me was to vote with my feet and get the hell out of there. California will fall under its own weight of bad policies in our lifetime and reasonable people will be able to move into the state and fix things a little at a time.

    Illinois and California have the same problem, vast areas of "country" where outdoors activities and such are very different from city slickers, but the nature of republican (small r) government is that the vast amounts of people in the large cities can overwhelm any voice the "country" people have in representation. What works for cities simply does not work in the country, and to expect city people in general to understand this and represent the differing values and interests of country people will never work.

    All of the United States is experiencing this as political issues are increasingly decided at higher and higher levels of government, but those who have not lived in a place with vast land area where the politics are dominated by large city populations will have a hard time understanding how pervasive the problem is. The United States was designed as a confederation of states with a federal government of strictly limited powers, but over time, when people realized that they could use those powers to influence issues that used to be decided more locally, they couldn't help but do so, for better or worse.

    While this might be sold as a liberal vs. conservative issue, it isn't. There are plenty of people on both sides of the figurative "aisle" in America who believe in federalism and limited government. That's why it's not a hopeless situation, just not one where grassroots efforts can return some sanity to governance in places where the cities so overwhelm the country voices.

    If you're wondering where the United States changed structurally in this area, read about this Supreme Court case from 1962:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_v._Carr

    Many states used to be structured like the Congress. This case changed all that nationwide and overnight, and so the idea that each county, district, or however your state is subdivided would have a voice in a bicameral legislature similar to how the national Senate is vs. a population based House where every person is represented equally, became illegal. "One person, one vote" in both houses of a state legislature empowers the cities at the expense of rural populations, and on issues like the outdoors, the results are inevitable.

  23. #23
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: Harryman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,371
    One of the things to keep in mind that NWA is a very focused area. It's awesome they've seen the value of spending money on trails, have a bunch of money to spend and are adding trail as fast as it can be built. This past season, they had 100 trailbuilders at work, which is great for my trailbuilding friends who have crews there, and also great for showcasing what said crews can accomplish when given the freedom to shine.

    I'm in Colorado, and like a lot of places, small municipalities have gotten on the bandwagon of "If you build it, they will come". There are trails going in everywhere, not just in the usual suspect places. I'd venture way more trails were built here last season, than NWA, just in a lot of different locations. The trail building business is booming, and it's not just in NWA.

    It's a good time to be riding mtbs.

  24. #24
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,888
    CEQA is your answer.

    Since I've recently been accused of not offering solutions, or building any trails or doing anything positive (lol). I'll offer the following solutions:

    Find a way to reform CEQA to exclude recreation projects. CEQA is a good tool when it comes to regulating business ventures but all volunteer projects such as the one at Tamaracho shouldn't fall under CEQA regulations. We spent less than 3000$ on the C.R. trail. All of the work was unpaid. We never excavated any dirt. We never crossed a "jurisdictional water crossing". Yet here we are hundreds of thousands of dollars in EIS reports later and we still can't finish a trail that is 90% complete. On private property.

    Advocate for single use trails. Evergreen's success is that they build single use trails. They do not really push for "sharing the trail" which is the foolish path we have chosen in California. Of course this may require some CEQA reform to accomplish but it should be the single most important focus of any MTB related advocacy group in California.

    Ditch the IMBA. We need a new national level MTB advocacy group. The IMBA has been hijacked by the Wilderness Society, Sierra Club, et al. We need to start fresh and make it a requirement that all board members have a proven record of riding mountain bikes and advocating for off road cycling access.

    Create a California wide advocacy group. California has special problems and it needs specialized help. This should be a priority. I think a Bay Area focus group would also be helpful.

    Fight against surveillance cameras in public land. Frankly I'm shocked that Californian's allowed this to happen. I was the only person who spoke out against Measure A funds being used on renting an entire office building to centralize surveillance of trail users in Marin County.

    Stop compromising with the conservation community. I've seen this path fail in Marin County. Advocates primarily from MCBC but from a surprising number of other parts of the off road cycling community in Marin were constantly upset with me for questioning why we continued to compromise with the MCL, Audubon et al. The reasoning was that we were creating friendships, that the conservationist community would see that we weren't bad people, that they would all eventually see the light. This never happened. MCBC recently published a list of accomplishments in 2018.
    Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-img_7685.jpg
    Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-img_7686.jpg

    The vast majority of these accomplishments never came to fruition or failed entirely due to lawsuits from the exact same conservationists they claimed to be making headway. The worst part about it were, losses were actually doubled. Advocates from MCBC's off road advisory board. The former President of MCBC and most notably Tom Boss the "dirt director" gave away so much to make the conservationist community happy. Then were taken by surprise when the conservationists sued them anyway. Very reminiscent of the Scorpion and the Frog:

    Another example of MCBC giving away something and getting nothing in return is the rerouting and eventual cancellation of the annual Turkey Day ride. MCBC, without asking the cycling community brokered a deal with MMWD to reroute the T-day ride off of Repack fire road. This resulted in zero miles of trail gained in MMWD property. This year the ride was cancelled altogether and MCBC apparently approved of this action. Again nothing has been gained. Azalea Hill is a potential but again the conservationists will sue anyway. Nothing will be gained and much will be lost.

    I think I've given enough examples of kowtowing to the conservation community. This needs to stop immediately.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    My experience with Washington State is somewhat limited, but it didn't seem all that special compared to Colorado or Utah. Maybe it's because I like dry and rocky instead of wet and loamy. I'm also not a fan of clearcut forests, although there are lots of wild berries in those areas.
    The whole east side of the cascades has the dry, rocky terrain you have and like in colorado. But yes, WA is know for the steep, rooty loamy type trails featured constantly on pinkbike and in promo vids. Soft grippy dirt, and steep trails sure are fun. Personally, i appreciate being able to crash into ferns and soft decaying logs as opposed to sharp scree and rocks haha. Different strokes for different folks for sure, but don't write off WA as just wet, loamy coastal rainforest....

    the clearcuts are part of the game in the northwest. Its a big reason why we have so many trails and trails systems: logging land, either private or managed by DNR, is allocated for legal MTB trails, and Timber companies will nearly always turn a blind eye to unsanctioned trail systems built on their land so those are numerous too. Its pretty cool that Evergreen is constantly building legit shuttle trails, pedal AM/DH trails, jump trails, and alpine epics... and everything in between for every skill level. Its good to be a MTB rider in WA state right now.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    CA has very similar laws (aka Recrational Use Statutes). MTB is explicitly called out in them as an activity which land owners are protected from if they allow free (as in pay-zero-dollar) access.
    Huh. I know a couple private timber holdings that allow free access and work with the local Organizations to build trail on their land, but i also know of a super popular area that is private timber land who also works with the local org to build trail, but charge a $50/year pass to use their land (not that most people actually buy the pass). Maybe folks up here are less litigious when it comes to breaking themselves off? (kind of doubt it though).

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    They don't have a lot of vertical to work with, there are places in AR, away from Bentonville's rolling hills and Leatherwood, that have much more vertical, but they aren't "building" there. The temperature is pretty oppressive in the summer time (and the ticks!) and then in the winter, well, no reason I'd ever go there vs. Arizona or somewhere that doesn't get ice-storms.

    It's cool there are trails and maybe if you lived as far away as Tulsa, it makes sense. Apart from that, it appears to be a big tax-write-off for Walmart, which again, is still a good thing. I'd rather they do that then a million other things that don't really give back and don't promote healthy lifestyles. That means it's more on the riders around there to keep it running, so hopefully that happens.

    WA on the other hand has everything all over the state. Tiger Mountain, Olympic Mountains, Capital Forest, Bellingham, Mt. St. Helens, and those are just a couple, there are far far more. Everything from wet redwoods to fern rainforests to alpine to dry desert and everything in between. The thing that amazed me was so much quality trail, trail that had been maintained at least sometime in the last decade, trail that could be used to make big rides, or trails in much smaller/isolated places that could be used to "escape" the city.

    The trail development is what I really like about WA, all over the state. We are finally starting to ramp up things in AK and have built several new challenging trails in the municipality. There are finally some decent plans to start linking major trail systems on the Kenai Peninsula and come up with some several-hundred-mile routes across portions of the state. Quite a few areas around here have grants and active plans in process to expand and build trails, so again, it seems like we are finally doing it.

    Trail development is great, yes, great that Bentonville and AR are seeing the value of it, I hope it doesn't collapse, but I'd really look more to Evergreen as a state-wide organization that builds and maintains all levels of trails. It's like what they've done in ARx1000.
    Dude be honest with the folks here. You came out here and barely rode because of the heat index, your words not mine. I do not believe you rode Fitzgerald, Kessler, all of Coler, or the shuttles at Leatherwood. I know for a fact that you didn't ride the gravity trails at The Great Passion Play. Eureka has much more elevation then Bentonville/Bella Vista. To say that building is not going on where there is elevation is the epitome of ignorance, Mount Magazine for one. You have a huge bias against this area for some reason and never miss a chance to bash it but you're just not telling the whole story here.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,201
    The thing that really launched Bentonville, in my opinion, was the ability to get the IMBA World Summit here due to the urban network. It was not the summit per se but the ability to show that national events would come that led to the investment in trails. The boom started just prior to the summit and has not stopped since. It just keeps going and the trails keep getting better.

    Within an hour drive you can find steep and sketchy, big hits and any other type of riding you want. The things going on at The Great Passion Play are ridiculous. They are actually building singletrack through the University of Arkansas' campus. It just took showing that trails could be a good investment in my opinion. Since then we have had pro and factory level riders, industry people and other national events all move here that just adds reinforcement to that idea. The growth basically feeds itself at this point.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  29. #29
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,059
    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Dude be honest with the folks here. You came out here and barely rode because of the heat index, your words not mine. I do not believe you rode Fitzgerald, Kessler, all of Coler, or the shuttles at Leatherwood. I know for a fact that you didn't ride the gravity trails at The Great Passion Play. Eureka has much more elevation then Bentonville/Bella Vista. To say that building is not going on where there is elevation is the epitome of ignorance, Mount Magazine for one. You have a huge bias against this area for some reason and never miss a chance to bash it but you're just not telling the whole story here.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    i said it was brutal because of the heat, correct.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    i said it was brutal because of the heat, correct.
    For you maybe, my friends and I did three 25+ mile days the week you were out here. It's all about perspective. That said please quit speaking like you are an authority on the place you barely rode.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    For you maybe, my friends and I did three 25+ mile days the week you were out here. It's all about perspective. That said please quit speaking like you are an authority on the place you barely rode.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Its nice to have a visitors perspective too, as opposed to only hearing the voice of the local homers.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Its nice to have a visitors perspective too, as opposed to only hearing the voice of the local homers.
    It is. My apologies for bringing it here. There is a back story everyone is not aware of. In this case you have a guy who already had his mind made up long before he visited.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  33. #33
    fc
    fc is online now
    head minion Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    31,559
    How hot/uncomfortable is it? What is the ideal riding season?

    My best bud was just there for out there for Outerbike and he said the season is just getting going there (for visitors?) cause it is very hot and humid during the summer.
    IPA will save America

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    How hot/uncomfortable is it? What is the ideal riding season?

    My best bud was just there for out there for Outerbike and he said the season is just getting going there (for visitors?) cause it is very hot and humid during the summer.
    Like I said it's all relative. There was only one week this year that was too much for me. That's when I night ride or now go to Leatherwood for shuttle runs. I'm from south Arkansas where it is hotter and more humid than it ever gets here. Today it's below freezing but historically long periods of that are an anomaly as well. We get visitors that come and have a good time year round. I think it depends on what you are acclimated to honestly as our weather really never hits extremes on either end.

    March and April are iffy for rain, we do have stuff that is rideable in the wet but not everything can be. Our rain comes in the form of storms so it's hard to predict, you may get 75% of the monthly average in one event and then hardly any more the rest of the month. Late July, August, early September can get hot but again hit or miss. The average humidity here is actually barely above the national average. Early October probably wouldn't be a bad week to come out.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yahooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    105
    I rode there in June and the heat and humidity didnít bother me a bit. Yeah I grew up there so maybe Iím used to it but I have lived in CA since 1990.

    If heat bothers you then ride in the morning and paddle board, fish, swim, wakeboard, drink... in the afternoon. Lots of water, caves... cool things to do when not riding.

    Paddling in a backwater channel of the Kings River looking for big fish, turtles, birds and gators
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-36d8437c-666b-487f-ab33-b26a5fddf555.jpg  

    Last edited by Yahooo; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:04 AM.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: twowheelmotion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    987
    Man. California sucks sooooo bad. All 163,696 square miles of it. If it's not on fire, being overtaken by politicians, our one network of trails in Marin are always under fire! Let's all move to Arkansas. I'll stay here, you know, to make sure everyone gets out of here. Oh my bad "Cali".. Said it wrong

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Harry Mackenzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,267
    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    Man. California sucks sooooo bad. All 163,696 square miles of it. If it's not on fire, being overtaken by politicians, our one network of trails in Marin are always under fire! Let's all move to Arkansas. I'll stay here, you know, to make sure everyone gets out of here. Oh my bad "Cali".. Said it wrong
    I'm with this guy. Cali sucks. Everyone should avoid. Everyone else should leave.

  38. #38
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,059
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    How hot/uncomfortable is it? What is the ideal riding season?

    My best bud was just there for out there for Outerbike and he said the season is just getting going there (for visitors?) cause it is very hot and humid during the summer.

    Itís like a high end track-able sports car, everyone rationalizes that they can daily drive it and deal with the harsh suspension. If you want to I do short rides and soak through all your clothes constantly, itís fine. For me, above about 65 makes me sweat pretty significantly due to body heat generated. Above about 80-85 and descents stop feeling cool. Above 85-90 the fun factor goes way down for me unless itís really dry at night or with low sun. Above 95 with some humidity just starts to be brutal. There are good times to ride in the South, but summer generally isnít one of them.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  39. #39
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,412
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Itís like a high end track-able sports car, everyone rationalizes that they can daily drive it and deal with the harsh suspension. There are good times to ride in the South, but summer generally isnít one of them.
    Only if you're not used to it. Once you're heat/humidity adapted, no problem at all.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Only if you're not used to it. Once you're heat/humidity adapted, no problem at all.
    Haha tell that to anyone who has played football in the south or any hot/humid climate. You might be adapted, but its still a constant struggle to stay cool and hydrated.

    On the other hand, i guess folks in the south don't need to worry about a place for a bottle cage because they will need a full camlebak for even a 30 min ride so a bottle is obsolete for 4-5 months out of the year.

  41. #41
    fc
    fc is online now
    head minion Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    31,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Itís like a high end track-able sports car, everyone rationalizes that they can daily drive it and deal with the harsh suspension. If you want to I do short rides and soak through all your clothes constantly, itís fine. For me, above about 65 makes me sweat pretty significantly due to body heat generated. Above about 80-85 and descents stop feeling cool. Above 85-90 the fun factor goes way down for me unless itís really dry at night or with low sun. Above 95 with some humidity just starts to be brutal. There are good times to ride in the South, but summer generally isnít one of them.
    Agree. The body does acclimate after a few weeks to high temperatures. Cold temperatures too. Only to a certain extent though. Maybe 10-15 degrees

    Humidity though.... that just sucks.

    It's something for visitors traveling to a new place have to consider. 90 degrees is not bad but if you're coming from 3 months of sub 60 degree weather, it may not be fun. And it may be dangerous.
    IPA will save America

  42. #42
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,059
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Only if you're not used to it. Once you're heat/humidity adapted, no problem at all.
    Iím not so sure, then there would be no use for A/C right? I do a lot of riding in TX and OK in the summer. Riding with other riders that are from there, it seems to be more about electrolytes, hydration, nutrition and individual fitness, rather than climatization.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  43. #43
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,059
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Agree. The body does acclimate after a few weeks to high temperatures. Cold temperatures too. Only to a certain extent though. Maybe 10-15 degrees

    Humidity though.... that just sucks.
    This is what I seem to notice and experience.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Haha tell that to anyone who has played football in the south or any hot/humid climate. You might be adapted, but its still a constant struggle to stay cool and hydrated.

    On the other hand, i guess folks in the south don't need to worry about a place for a bottle cage because they will need a full camlebak for even a 30 min ride so a bottle is obsolete for 4-5 months out of the year.
    I find a 20oz bottle and Skratch mix is good for about an hour in the hottest weather here and I'm a heavy sweater.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Haha tell that to anyone who has played football in the south or any hot/humid climate. You might be adapted, but its still a constant struggle to stay cool and hydrated.

    On the other hand, i guess folks in the south don't need to worry about a place for a bottle cage because they will need a full camlebak for even a 30 min ride so a bottle is obsolete for 4-5 months out of the year.
    Ugh, 2-a-day practices in August with >90į temps and >90% humidity were brutal. But that was life as we knew it and if you want to be outside and playing or exercising, then you just do it.

    I think part of acclimating is also just practical experience. Getting used to the feeling of being really soaked with sweat everywhere, how much water to keep drinking and how much to use for dumping on your head and back, that your body can actually handle the muggy heat, etc. Also the joy and relief of a cold air-conditioned room or a creek or running through a sprinkler to cool off when you're done!

    After 15 years my memory may be foggy, but I don't actually remember having to drink much more in humid summers than I do in the north CA valley. Possibly even the opposite for water consumption actually. You feel much sweatier in humid climates because it isn't evaporating off your skin, but the dehydration and heat stroke issues seem to be a bigger issue here in the low humidity and 110į.

  46. #46
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,412
    I grew up in the south, played sports and MTB there growing up. I'm always amazed at how my hot/cold tolerance has thinned when I go back home.

    Name:  embrace-the-suck-morale-patch-milspec-monkey-multicam.jpg
Views: 165
Size:  28.6 KB

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Joe_510's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    866
    When you're the 5th largest economy in the world, you don't need to attract people with trails and unique recreation opportunities.

    Not saying I like the bay area's trail access, but I really don't see it getting any better, and it's sorta like comparing apples to oranges.
    East Bay Parks AKA East Bay Cattle Ranches

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I find a 20oz bottle and Skratch mix is good for about an hour in the hottest weather here and I'm a heavy sweater.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Yeah, i bet i could get away with that too as long as i maxed out my hydration beforehand. But i also dont like barely having enough food or water for a ride. Im out there for fun, so i make sure i take enough food or water that i can drink till im sated instead of rationing against my body's wants. Maybe your just a tougher SOB than me haha.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Yeah, i bet i could get away with that too as long as i maxed out my hydration beforehand. But i also dont like barely having enough food or water for a ride. Im out there for fun, so i make sure i take enough food or water that i can drink till im sated instead of rationing against my body's wants. Maybe your just a tougher SOB than me haha.
    Nah, I just carry that stuff in the Rallon frame bag and I know where all the water fountains are and route accordingly, lol.

    I will say if you're prone to going hyponatremic riding here when it's hot can cause you issues. An electrolyte mix is really a necessity.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  50. #50
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,412
    When I'm feeling like a wuss, which is most of the time, I just ask myself 'what would Jobst do?'

    Cali where did we go wrong? Learn from Arkansas,-3-peterjobstalpinerd1988800.jpg

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Haus Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,490
    Or you could just move up north to somewhere like Mendo or Humboldt and dig all your own trails by hand. Problem solved

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,153
    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    California, like my home state, Illinois, is long lost. No amount of voting is going to fix it. The only solution for me was to vote with my feet and get the hell out of there. California will fall under its own weight of bad policies in our lifetime and reasonable people will be able to move into the state and fix things a little at a time.

    Illinois and California have the same problem, vast areas of "country" where outdoors activities and such are very different from city slickers, but the nature of republican (small r) government is that the vast amounts of people in the large cities can overwhelm any voice the "country" people have in representation. What works for cities simply does not work in the country, and to expect city people in general to understand this and represent the differing values and interests of country people will never work.
    There are dozens of states where one or two large metro areas dominate the rural. Look at New York, Georgia, Utah, and Colorado. The difference is that Utah and Colorado have outdoor ethics buried in the genes of the state, even in Denver and SLC. Things aren't great in CO and are slowly getting worse, but at least the people in Denver and Colorado Springs generally support advancing and maintaining outdoor recreation.

    Illinois? The people in Chicago don't give two shits about anything outside of "Chicagoland". BTW, I am also from Illinois originally, and Illinois makes California look like a rational, fiscally conservative state. Illinois, hands down, has the most insanely mismanaged governmental entities in the US, top to bottom, and they are so far off the edge of the cliff already that it is just a matter of a very few years before they slip into genuine crisis. I mean, how can you wrap your head around a state that has $8 BILLION in overdue accounts payable and the number is only that low because they issued long term bonds to payoff another $9 Billion? People are leaving in droves, and the population is actually declining in real numbers, despite a significant influx of international immigrants. The tax load is already the second highest in the country, and it needs to go way higher to even begin to right the ship. Raise taxes even higher, even more businesses and people leave, lather, rinse repeat. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the country responds when they finally hit the wall.

Similar Threads

  1. How long did it take you to learn the wheelie?
    By flooger in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 03-22-2014, 03:02 PM
  2. Just did my first 24 solo. What did I learn...
    By crazy_bikerdude in forum Endurance XC Racing
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-04-2011, 08:24 AM
  3. Nice Weekend...Where in Arkansas did you ride?
    By ArkansasOutside in forum Southeast/Midsouth - GA, TN, AL, FL, MS, LA, AR
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-13-2011, 09:03 AM

Members who have read this thread: 365

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2018 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.