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  1. #1
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    1x11...I'm over it for hills

    What was it like a year ago or more that 1x11 sort of took over? I sure was sold. Less bar/bike clutter, lighter, quieter...all good. Now that I have some miles under my belt with this trend, I gotta say, I miss my 2x10.

    Maybe I am getting older or what not but seems like I am always looking for that one more gear that is never there with a 1x11 (I'm running a 30 up front). On the uphill, my thumb constantly pushes a lever that has hit a wall as my legs scream for just a little mercy. On the downhill, I am always looking for that little extra torque that is all but gone past 25mph. The only solution I see is to sacrifice an uphill gear for a more DH speed or visa versa.

    Anyone else out there feel the same? That Di2 is looking like a sweet solution.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  2. #2
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    Wouldn't know what its like, what you are experiencing....I am still running a 3x8 drivetrain...never got on the 9 speed bandwagon, let alone the 10 or 11.
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

  3. #3
    190lbs of climber
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    If you don't care about seconds out of corners and occasionally walking out of a dip when you forget to dump the front ring, 2x10 with a clutch derailleur is the end all of mtb drivetrains, at least until light, efficient, and functional 14 speed internal gears become a reality. 24/36 and 11-36 gives the high gear of 32+/10 and the low gear of 28/42.

    That said, every bike I have is 1x11. My only real gripe- the jump from 10t to 12t at the bottom. Needs an 11t... time to go 1x12?
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  4. #4
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    Absolute Black or Wolf Tooth oval rings give a little extra climbing help and add a little more to top end. $50-60 is cheap if it means you can keep your current set up.

    I have 'em on both bikes and like them. The climb about 1T smaller than stated size (30T oval climbs like a 29T) and feel about 1-2T faster on the trail.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  5. #5
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    I must be behind the times, I'm still running a 1x10 with 30t up front.

  6. #6
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    Sorry to hear, squash. I've had 1x10 since the fall with no problems on my HD. I've been running 32(Wolf)x36 (got the 42 OneUp in the winter when I wasn't riding as much), but Praxis 11x40 is my next cassette.

    When I get on my old Mojo with 2x10 it feels/sounds like a clunker!

    Maybe it's just time for you to take up golf--or go back to scrapbooking.

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  7. #7
    Weird huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokchoicowboy View Post
    Wouldn't know what its like, what you are experiencing....I am still running a 3x8 drivetrain...never got on the 9 speed bandwagon, let alone the 10 or 11.
    Men's gearing. 48x36x28 up front// 11-28 in the back.

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  8. #8
    I just wanna go fast!
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    Went from 1x9 34t front 11-34 rear (26) to a 1x10 34t front 11-36t (27.5) to a 1x11 30t front 10-42t rear (29er)

    I've been used to the single ring thing for a while so no real gripes on gearing since every generation has gotten a better and better range for me.

    What does burn me up is the fact that I now have to lube, that's right I said lube, my SRAM cassette. I'm not talking about greasing where the freehub body and the cassette connect either. I actually had to lube the cassette itself to make the damn thing stop creaking.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    What was it like a year ago or more that 1x11 sort of took over? I sure was sold. Less bar/bike clutter, lighter, quieter...all good. Now that I have some miles under my belt with this trend, I gotta say, I miss my 2x10.

    Maybe I am getting older or what not but seems like I am always looking for that one more gear that is never there with a 1x11 (I'm running a 30 up front). On the uphill, my thumb constantly pushes a lever that has hit a wall as my legs scream for just a little mercy. On the downhill, I am always looking for that little extra torque that is all but gone past 25mph. The only solution I see is to sacrifice an uphill gear for a more DH speed or visa versa.

    Anyone else out there feel the same? That Di2 is looking like a sweet solution.
    You don't get the same range. And if you're one of those riders that excels at steep climbs and fast descents (which I think you are), you'll notice it.
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  10. #10
    fc
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    The problem is the Tractor climb. 3x up that and you're ready to donkey punch the 1x11 compromise gearing.

    fc
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  11. #11
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    Somebody should invent a minimalist suicide shifter and der for 11x systems so you can bail out if you really need to but not for frequent use.

  12. #12
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    Just run two NW rings up front on a 2x crank. Manually shift. Takes 15 seconds.
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  13. #13
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    Somebody should invent a minimalist suicide shifter and der for 11x systems so you can bail out if you really need to but not for frequent use.
    You can just do it by hand. Pro racers like Anne Caro Chausson have double rings in the front and switches to the small front ring by hand if she wants to conserve or rest during a transfer stage in a race.

    So the big ring is still narrow/wide (and can't take a shift by derailleur) but the chain can be lifted by hand to a small ring.

    fc
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  14. #14
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    The way I see it you gots 2 options:

    1. You can go fetch your front derailleur - I think it's hanging on the wall next to where your panties are drying

    or

    2.
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  15. #15
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    Did the math

    I did the math (Sheldon Brown, really) before switching and found out I couldn't do it. If I got the granny gear I needed I'd be spinning like a hamster at the top end. However, I then had to build a 2x10 bike and it got very expensive.

  16. #16
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    4 months ago I removed the Hammerschmidt 22 or 24 with 1:6 internal multiplier and 11-36, 26er. Now I am 28 and 11-42 26er. Going down gnarly DH I can do like A. Gwin, no problem (just joking). Climbing is a 1/2 teeth more than 22 11/36, so ok, no problem.

    What I really miss is in terrain with ups and downs where momentum is important. With the 1x10 I have to think in advance and have a central gear so I can shift quickly up or down. It distracts me. With 2x drivetrain you just change ring and that's it. If it is known terrain is not a problem but when you are in new terrain... with the saint lever I can change 2 shifts at a time but still is not optimal.

    Of course with 28/42, if it is flat or mild downhill ... the night catches me.

    I wonder why they did not invent the hammerschmidt 2.0, that is the same system but 1 lb leighter. 22 ring with heavy duty bashguard and gpx cranks. Bomb proof.

    However, I still remember how much I paid for the 1x10 conversion, so for the time being, the 1x10 continues to be the best system in the world. Dot.

  17. #17
    J-Flo
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    I just switched to 1x11 and so far am loving it with 30t. I did not realize how much of a distraction the front derailleur was until I ditched it. For rolling terrain, it is easy to shift up or down four gears at once and more worry-free than the 2x10 design. The 2x10 is still a great design for increased range and top end speed though. I have this on a trail bike, on which if I am spun out in the top gear I am probably going too fast anyhow.

    I don't use the granny much but it is still a necessity on steep climbs (like yesterday up Manzanita FR in Marin).

  18. #18
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    I've been on 1x10 for a few months now and I'm a stronger/fitter rider for it ^^

    The only time I think about needing a bit more (NB, not less) is humming along on the flat.

    I do work hard on long grinder climbs, but I enjoy it 0_o

    On the downs I don't need to pedal as my mass 220 (no gear/bike) quickly gets me hitting Mach Chicken.

    I'm contemplating going 32t Oval up front, as I'm curious to see if it can help on the flat and short punchy/techy climbs.

    2x?? No thanks ;-)

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  19. #19
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    30x42 is slightly easier than 26x36 and 32x42 is slightly harder. 32x10 is about the same as 36x11. The last double I had was 26/38x11-36 so you really don't give anything up compared to that setup. You'll give up 38x11, a gear which I don't think many use. And if your double was 26 and 36 up front, you give up 5% from the low end and 2% from the top end with a 32 ring.

  20. #20
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    What are these "gears" you all keep talking about?
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  21. #21
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    I recently went from a 3x9 to a 1x11 30t 10-42 setup and overall I am liking it a lot for all the known reasons; less clutter, quiet, etc. what I've noticed most is that my familiar climbs are over so much quicker than before. Of course I feel a bit more winded too. I may end up trying one of the oval gears.

  22. #22
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    It's fine. Just get over needing to go more than 25 mph downhill and gear for the climbs.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The problem is the Tractor climb. 3x up that and you're ready to donkey punch the 1x11 compromise gearing.

    fc
    1x11 was invented to facilitate the e-bike invasion.
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  24. #24
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    Just can't do 1x drive train in So. Cal. With climbs so steep, it's hard to walk up and 45 to 50 mph down hills, a 1x would have to seriously sacrifice something.

  25. #25
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    I'm gonna go ahead and say it:

    I LOVE 1x's

    We have three MTB's in the house and nary a one has a front D/shifter. I did a 11-42 Wolf Tooth 1x conversion on my wife's MTB and she loves it.

    It's the simplicity that gets me. That and I hate (loathe? Despise?) adjusting front derailluers.

    For me, oval rings took it to the next dimension. AB rings seem to have slightly more climbing assurance than Wolftooth (more ovality?). But either way, I'm a believer in 1x + oval rings.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  26. #26
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    ^ Who the **** is Larry? Is he some kind of drive train God or something?

  27. #27
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    Perfect timing. It's been around for two years now so time for a new standard. Have they exhausted the front ring setups and its time remarket some sort of internal gearing?
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  28. #28
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    We've rode many demo bikes in southern UT with 1x11's and loved them. However, for our new Yeti trail bikes we went 2x10 because of the long climbs in CA. Most of the trails in Moab or Zion areas are short fast steep climbs that you can power through in any lower gear. 1x11 is a dream there. For regions with long climbs and long descents I'm not convinced 1x11 is the way to go.

    So the simple solution is to own at least two $7k bikes rigged appropriately.

    :-)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpreston View Post
    We've rode many demo bikes in southern UT with 1x11's and loved them. However, for our new Yeti trail bikes we went 2x10 because of the long climbs in CA. Most of the trails in Moab or Zion areas are short fast steep climbs that you can power through in any lower gear. 1x11 is a dream there. For regions with long climbs and long descents I'm not convinced 1x11 is the way to go.

    So the simple solution is to own at least two $7k bikes rigged appropriately.

    :-)
    Yep, most people don't realize that California is as mountainous as anywhere.

  30. #30
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    Here's what I notice changing around the cassette and front ring on my 1x10 bikes:

    Going to a smaller rear cassette or bigger front ring FEELS harder. It does not feel comfortable.

    Going to a bigger rear cassette or smaller front ring FEELS easier.

    What I noticed these do not do is change my speed uphill. It remains the same. I wouldn't exactly go on to say this can be true for ridiculous gear ratios, but 32x32 or 32x34, 32x36, 32x38, 32x40 and 32x42 are nowhere as crazy as SS ratios. Within a range, we are far more capable and adaptable than we give ourselves credit for.

    Of course when you bonk, any gear feels like death, I'm not sure having an easier gear really helps, as even the easiest gear feels like there's massive resistance to turning it.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Yep, most people don't realize that California is as mountainous as anywhere.
    Not only that, but many people think the gear choices, 1x, 2x or 3x are somehow tied to the amount of or grades of climbing in a certain location. IME, they are not.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  32. #32
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    I always have wondered if you need the same energy to move a 28/36 than a 36/28. Does anybody now?

  33. #33
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    I'm going all M8000

    3x11 and 11-42 on the back.

    I'll be able to climb a wall and still rip that last fire road before first divide at Downieville.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  34. #34
    J-Flo
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS-KR View Post
    I always have wondered if you need the same energy to move a 28/36 than a 36/28. Does anybody now?
    I've wondered the same. I read a chain/gearing efficiency study (from a German bike magazine, linked somewhere on MTBR a few years ago) that the bigger chainring has somewhat greater efficiency in transmitting power, other things being relatively equal. In other words, a bit less force is lost to friction and flex when there is a big chainring turning the gears. It is on the order of a few percentage points, but that's something you can feel on a hard climb. As the cog gets smaller and smaller the efficiency is lost, so this is a benefit only in the middle to larger cogs.

    The same study showed negligible ill-effects in terms of power transmission from cross-chaining. Cross-chaining shortens chain life because of the torque put on the chain pins from running the chain at an angle, but it doesn't hurt your riding (except to the extent it might lead to a jam on a bad shift)! At least this is what the engineers in lab coats concluded from testing with a fancy machine designed for the purpose. (Disclaimer -- I am going from memory and may be missing some nuances or caveats.)

    On my 2x10, I usually feel a bit stronger when in 2-1 to 2-3 gearing than in the 1-4 to 1-7 rough equivalents. This would explain why, assuming I am not imagining it. It also suggests that cross-chaining is less of a big deal than the received wisdom indicates. Today's drivetrains can handle it. The 1x11 is coming close to cross-chaining when in the 42t or 10t sprockets anyhow.

    If this is all bunk, someone should say so.

  35. #35
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    Got the Shimano electronic Di2 drive train on my new Santa Cruz Bronson. Riding every day for a month now.

    Went with a 3x11 gearing as it has no compromises:
    Full range of gear ratios from largest to smallest. Nice smooth 15% jump between each gear. Very fast reliable shifting with Di2, even with front chain ring shifts.

    The Di2 3x11 has the same simplicity as any 1X system. I only have one right shifter in "synchro" mode. I call it my 1x33 (although it's more like 1x17 with removal of duplicates). I don't even know or care which front chain ring I'm on any more. But when I look, I'm surprised I"m on the middle or large chain ring when going up steep hills.

    The front chain ring shifts only when required, according to one of two programs you can adjust via an interface. You can change between modes on the fly with a button. It tries to stay in the front chain ring as long as possible. The usual setup has one mode with gearing preference to stay in small chain ring gears, the other for large chain ring gears. I always just use the mode with smaller chain ring emphasis, even though I often find myself on the larger chain rings than I typically use.

    The Di2 system adjusts the front derailleur slightly according to rear derailleur gear to maintain perfect alignment. It also shifts faster by first going past the chain ring and then coming back after it detects the shift. A delight to watch.

    One of the nicest features is to dump or add handfuls of gears instantly. I just keep holding down the up/down lever, and in a couple pedal strokes I feel the force smoothly and quickly getting stronger/weaker. I just stop holding the lever when I've got the force I want. It's like having a Continuously Variable Transmission for a bike.

    With my ~100 miles/week and constant shifting, the battery is less than 1/3 down now after a month. I suspect I'll need to charge the battery in 3 months - takes an hour or two on a USB cord. It gives plenty of warning, and for safety goes into rear derailleur only mode for the last ~150 miles.

    I love the XTR 3x11 with the many shades of low gears for steep hills like at Henry Coe. I call the lowest ratio my "1.5 MPH gear". I can shift down and take a 'resting' climb for a minute or two on even the steepest hills. Or power up the steepest grades while adjusting for just the right gear for maximum output. My speed has instantly jumped by 20% on all my favorite trails with the Bronson. (Suspension, wheels, and other items help too.) And on the fast side, I can nicely roll at >25 MPH on the road to/from local trails.

    So far, I love the system. I suspect Di2 will become the future of drive trains as it trickles down from XTR and $10K bikes. It'll be the same sort of evolution that happened with disk brakes and dropper posts.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    ^ Who the **** is Larry? Is he some kind of drive train God or something?
    Nah, just have the latest electronic Di2 on my new ride and loving it.

    Even if you're one of the few that hasn't ridden with me, you've surely seen one of my 4.8K posts?

    I have ridden with a "Shawn" in the past, but that could be another Shawn.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  37. #37
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    Huh. I love my 1x11 setup; I'd hate to go back to 2x.

    I also can't imagine a climb that I couldn't do in 30x42 but might be able to do if only I just had one more gear... at that point it would be so steep I'd be falling over or wheelie-ing anyway.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS-KR View Post
    I always have wondered if you need the same energy to move a 28/36 than a 36/28. Does anybody now?
    If the suspension has been optimized to do the climbing in a smaller chainring like 24, then it can lose efficiency when you go to a 30 or 32 tooth ring. This is because the chain force will act at a different angle and can cause suspension bob. But I would expect that the newest bike design take 1x drive trains into account.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    You can just do it by hand. Pro racers like Anne Caro Chausson have double rings in the front and switches to the small front ring by hand if she wants to conserve or rest during a transfer stage in a race.

    So the big ring is still narrow/wide (and can't take a shift by derailleur) but the chain can be lifted by hand to a small ring.

    fc
    FC, how would you bolt that up to your crank's spider? Two chainrings to the inside of the spider, some spacers between and extra long chain ring bolts?
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  40. #40
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moto'n'PushBiker View Post
    FC, how would you bolt that up to your crank's spider? Two chainrings to the inside of the spider, some spacers between and extra long chain ring bolts?
    It seems like using a 2x crank is the key.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    I've wondered the same. I read a chain/gearing efficiency study (from a German bike magazine, linked somewhere on MTBR a few years ago) that the bigger chainring has somewhat greater efficiency in transmitting power, other things being relatively equal. In other words, a bit less force is lost to friction and flex when there is a big chainring turning the gears. It is on the order of a few percentage points, but that's something you can feel on a hard climb. As the cog gets smaller and smaller the efficiency is lost, so this is a benefit only in the middle to larger cogs.

    The same study showed negligible ill-effects in terms of power transmission from cross-chaining. Cross-chaining shortens chain life because of the torque put on the chain pins from running the chain at an angle, but it doesn't hurt your riding (except to the extent it might lead to a jam on a bad shift)! At least this is what the engineers in lab coats concluded from testing with a fancy machine designed for the purpose. (Disclaimer -- I am going from memory and may be missing some nuances or caveats.)

    On my 2x10, I usually feel a bit stronger when in 2-1 to 2-3 gearing than in the 1-4 to 1-7 rough equivalents. This would explain why, assuming I am not imagining it. It also suggests that cross-chaining is less of a big deal than the received wisdom indicates. Today's drivetrains can handle it. The 1x11 is coming close to cross-chaining when in the 42t or 10t sprockets anyhow.

    If this is all bunk, someone should say so.
    The other important thing to remember about big ring vs small ring is that the small ring is exerting a larger force on the chain for the net wattage delivered so you'll see more chain wear. I think the smaller radius on the ring also focuses the stretch more on a smaller number of links.

  42. #42
    fc
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    The best drivetrain in the world is....

    Long Term Test: Shimano Di2 XTR - Mtbr.com

    It's a 2x11 system with 26/36 front and 11-40 rear. There is on electronic shifter on the right side only so it shifts the front automatically with a configurable program.

    Shifts are perfect and it auto trims the front and shift matches the rear when moving front rings.

    So I've been using 1x11 on almost all my bikes for the past three years. When I got system, I wasn't too jazzed but then I realized this is a 2x system of the gods. There is no left shifter and front ring shifts are perfect.

    1x11 is amazing in many senses but in terms of gearing range, it is a compromise. One has to select the ideal front ring whether it be 28/30/32 then the big gear is really limited. 1x11 will dominate for a long time since Di2 XTR is about $3500. It's good to have options.


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  43. #43
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    I agree those 1x systems sound awesome if you never ride in Henry Coe or ride up Tractor a lot, or any place with long steep climbs for longer than 2 hours. I have a 22T front chainring on the XC bike that really makes life nice and I'm in no hurry to give it up. The ease of maintenance and shifting and cleanliness of cabling of a 1x system would also be nice, but it would be ridiculous to have a 1x with 22T on the front.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    It seems like using a 2x crank is the key.
    I see. I did not realize there were 64BCD narrow wide chain rings. So I could put a 2x spider on my SRAM crank and run a 64BCD 28T and a 104BCD 32T. I'm not sure if my medium derailleur can handle. Going from 32T to 30T I had to shorten the chain. Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    I read a chain/gearing efficiency study (from a German bike magazine, linked somewhere on MTBR a few years ago) that the bigger chainring has somewhat greater efficiency in transmitting power...
    If I remember correctly, the difference was very small.

    Meanwhile, bike frames are designed so that there is higher anti-squat the smaller the front ring. So a 30t will have more antisquat than a 36t. This is beneficial on frames with moderate antisquat, while a frame with high antisquat can work against you (by compressing the shock)

    I noticed a difference with a wide open shock going from 36t to 30t up front. I think it just match up to my frame better.

    P

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    I agree those 1x systems sound awesome if you never ride in Henry Coe or ride up Tractor a lot, or any place with long steep climbs for longer than 2 hours. I have a 22T front chainring on the XC bike that really makes life nice and I'm in no hurry to give it up. The ease of maintenance and shifting and cleanliness of cabling of a 1x system would also be nice, but it would be ridiculous to have a 1x with 22T on the front.
    I ride a 34 or 36t chainring on my 29ers, ride plenty of steep mountains.

    One thing people are not considering is the fitness of the individual pedalling the bike; if you're a 145lb whippet that can knock out 350w for 20min, you can get away with different gearing than a 250lb dude that can only go at 250w for that time period.

    There is, in fact, an intersection between fitness, terrain, and gearing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    You can just do it by hand. Pro racers like Anne Caro Chausson have double rings in the front and switches to the small front ring by hand if she wants to conserve or rest during a transfer stage in a race.

    So the big ring is still narrow/wide (and can't take a shift by derailleur) but the chain can be lifted by hand to a small ring.

    fc
    This ^^^

    I run a 2x crank with a 30t narrow wide, and a 24t cheater gear. 11x42 in the back. No front derailleur or shifter.

    Almost all rides, I ride the 30t and reap all the benefits of the 1x10 system.

    When climbs are long and steep, or just long, like in the Sierra, I finger shift down to the 24 up front, gaining a lot of the benefits of a 2x10 system.

    The cheater gear weighs nothing.

    I've been running this for a year now, and it works great. It just takes a minute to get off the bike and finger shift.

    P

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    If you are flying downhill at 28mph+, pumping and using the bike will give you more speed than pedaling in most cases. Look at Gwins race win without a chain. He used his energy and focus to pump, take better lines, and maneuver the bike instead of pedaling. And he won the freaking race. I would rather have the right gear for climbing compared to a huge chaining so I can pedal at high speeds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    If you guys think climbing tractor is tough with a 1x11 wait until you go ride steep stuff in the Sierra at altitude and a couple inches of decomposed granite under your tires.

    I love my 2x10, especially when I'm riding past people walking their 1x11 bikes. If you're not a strong rider quit fooling yourself. It's like the weak singlespeeders that complain the route is not singlespeed friendly and spend half the ride walking.

    But hey, they don't have a front shifter so their bike looks really cool while they wear out the soles of their shoes.
    Yup. I think it's those people who actually push the limits on both the up and the down that notice the difference.
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    Lots of talk about fitness, but I didn't see anything about leg speed. Admittedly my fitness is non existent these days, but I could tell when I had 1 by that I wouldn't enjoy it even if I was fit, because of my roady upbringing and love for spinning a low gear. Ain't no shame in low gears!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    This ^^^

    I run a 2x crank with a 30t narrow wide, and a 24t cheater gear. 11x42 in the back. No front derailleur or shifter.

    Almost all rides, I ride the 30t and reap all the benefits of the 1x10 system.

    When climbs are long and steep, or just long, like in the Sierra, I finger shift down to the 24 up front, gaining a lot of the benefits of a 2x10 system.

    The cheater gear weighs nothing.

    I've been running this for a year now, and it works great. It just takes a minute to get off the bike and finger shift.

    P
    Same but I used a 3x crank. I call the 24 - 42 "Super Granny" also "Stick Shift" stop and grab a stick to shift.

    Bonk gear. Bail out gear. Nice to have it going up Gunshot, Manzanita or Alp De Luiz, here in Marin.

    Eyeing the new Shimano XT 2x though, hmm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Svahn View Post
    Lots of talk about fitness, but I didn't see anything about leg speed. Admittedly my fitness is non existent these days, but I could tell when I had 1 by that I wouldn't enjoy it even if I was fit, because of my roady upbringing and love for spinning a low gear. Ain't no shame in low gears!
    I don't think it's really about that. The OP and Beaverbiker are both really strong riders. I also know that the OP is a strong rider - and a really good downhiller.

    I think it's those type of riders that actually use the gear range we're normally afforded.

    I fall into that group, too. I race XC and DH. I really like steep, technical climbs - and I do pretty well on the downhill. The 1X isn't the set up for me.

    It's good for people to understand the limitations of the various systems. it'll save you lots of money in the long term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I ride a 34 or 36t chainring on my 29ers, ride plenty of steep mountains.

    One thing people are not considering is the fitness of the individual pedalling the bike; if you're a 145lb whippet that can knock out 350w for 20min, you can get away with different gearing than a 250lb dude that can only go at 250w for that time period.

    There is, in fact, an intersection between fitness, terrain, and gearing.
    I agree this can be visualized as a Venn diagram between fitness, terrain and gearing. I am definitely no whippet, but more the little engine that could. But even whippets need low-ish gearing at Henry Coe and for rides longer than 6 hrs, which is the main purpose behind my ridiculously low gearing. (And I have a 40t for those long straight stretches - 3x - I like pushing the bigger gears, too).
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    Might not have articulated my point properly.
    I was trying to say that because 1 by might not be for some people, doesn't mean that they are in some way weak. I picked up a "what's wrong with you, 1 by is plenty low" vibe from some of the posts. Some people that are wicked fast enjoy a high rpm, low gear lifestyle on the bike. I often am in my 22 maybe a couple gears down in the back, when others are in their middle/big ring and we are going at the same speed.
    Does that articulate it better or am I in the same spot?
    PS- 1 by, tried it , hated it. The Mrs. Loves it with a 32 up front. (Ex World Cup XC racer though, with a naturally slower RPM)

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Svahn View Post
    Might not have articulated my point properly.
    I was trying to say that because 1 by might not be for some people, doesn't mean that they are in some way weak. I picked up a "what's wrong with you, 1 by is plenty low" vibe from some of the posts. Some people that are wicked fast enjoy a high rpm, low gear lifestyle on the bike. I often am in my 22 maybe a couple gears down in the back, when others are in their middle/big ring and we are going at the same speed.
    Does that articulate it better or am I in the same spot?
    PS- 1 by, tried it , hated it. The Mrs. Loves it with a 32 up front. (Ex World Cup XC racer though, with a naturally slower RPM)
    Yah, I get that vibe from a lot of people. And I know I can climb stuff they can't. So, what evs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    I don't think it's really about that. The OP and Beaverbiker are both really strong riders. I also know that the OP is a strong rider - and a really good downhiller.

    I think it's those type of riders that actually use the gear range we're normally afforded.

    I fall into that group, too. I race XC and DH. I really like steep, technical climbs - and I do pretty well on the downhill. The 1X isn't the set up for me.

    It's good for people to understand the limitations of the various systems. it'll save you lots of money in the long term.
    I have to agree with IHC here...I am extremely talented.
    I'm not sure how this works.

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    I use a 28 tooth chain ring and am within a gear inch of what I ran with 3x in the past. If you are not spinning out the 10 tooth regularly you should try a smaller chain ring. With a spiderless crank you can go down to 26. A gear inch calculator can bring some reality to the process of choosing a chain ring.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

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    Quote Originally Posted by cornfish View Post
    I use a 28 tooth chain ring and am within a gear inch of what I ran with 3x in the past. If you are not spinning out the 10 tooth regularly you should try a smaller chain ring. With a spiderless crank you can go down to 26. A gear inch calculator can bring some reality to the process of choosing a chain ring.
    Someone posted all the final drive ratios for all the different set ups on facebook.

    it's quite a difference - on both the low and the high end.
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    I agree with John, while there are climbs I could probably get up in a lower gear, I was trained at around 90 rpm on the roady, and that's where I'm more efficient. I have not tried a 1x yet, but I have zero complaints about my 2x10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Someone posted all the final drive ratios for all the different set ups on facebook.

    it's quite a difference - on both the low and the high end.
    I've been using 1X exclusively for three years and have zero issues. I've done stage races, spent days in the Idaho backcountry at elevation and ridden all the local stuff. I have experienced no discernible difference in the available gearing between my 1X or any of the 2X or 3X drivetrains I have used. If one or two gear inches is a deal breaker 2X is probably the better choice.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I have to agree with IHC here...I am extremely talented.
    Don't forget modest! - in fact, Sram and Shimano are furiously fighting to be the 1st to bring a 4x drivetrain to market to fully unleash your riding potential...if my maths are correct (and I think they are) you should be a 4.8 x better rider when you get 44 gears compared to only the 11 you are working w/ right now

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    Stop with the gear inch crap already. If you aren't changing your tire size at the same time, all you need to do is simple division. Divide the chainring by the rear cog and compare that ratio. Why is that so hard that everybody has to resort to Sheldon Brown's calculator or somebody's spreadsheet chart? Jeez. That's why people like 1x11 - having two shifters obviously taxes their brains too much. (That's why I have no shifters at all and ride single speed - less thinking involved).

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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I have to agree with IHC here...I am extremely talented.
    Squashyo, there was no attempt to dis. I am in agreement with you regarding drive trails.
    That said, maybe deep down there was still an attempt to dis, after you decided that seeing Bob Wier on the trail was more badass than fishing with Laurens Ten Dam, in your "ever ride with anyone important" thread. By the way, Laurens is getting serious burliness points in this years tour!

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Svahn View Post
    Squashyo, there was no attempt to dis. I am in agreement with you regarding drive trails.
    That said, maybe deep down there was still an attempt to dis, after you decided that seeing Bob Wier on the trail was more badass than fishing with Laurens Ten Dam, in your "ever ride with anyone important" thread. By the way, Laurens is getting serious burliness points in this years tour!
    I wasn't dissing anyone with this comment. I was just pointing out that I am extremely talented and awesome. Ask my mom.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    1x11 is amazing in many senses but in terms of gearing range, it is a compromise.
    That is what I concluded. Front derailleur does not bother me (and this new side swing Shimano seems to be an improvement), weight savings are not that amazing, and for long rides around I want all the range of a 2x10/11. And I ride single speed half the time.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Ask my mom.
    So many potential zingers...so little time.......

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Nah, just have the latest electronic Di2 on my new ride and loving it.

    Even if you're one of the few that hasn't ridden with me, you've surely seen one of my 4.8K posts?

    I have ridden with a "Shawn" in the past, but that could be another Shawn.
    Oh, it's you, sorry for being a smart ass. I tend to remember people better by their avitar.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The best drivetrain in the world is....

    Long Term Test: Shimano Di2 XTR - Mtbr.com

    It's a 2x11 system with 26/36 front and 11-40 rear. There is on electronic shifter on the right side only so it shifts the front automatically with a configurable program.

    Shifts are perfect and it auto trims the front and shift matches the rear when moving front rings.

    So I've been using 1x11 on almost all my bikes for the past three years. When I got system, I wasn't too jazzed but then I realized this is a 2x system of the gods. There is no left shifter and front ring shifts are perfect.

    1x11 is amazing in many senses but in terms of gearing range, it is a compromise. One has to select the ideal front ring whether it be 28/30/32 then the big gear is really limited. 1x11 will dominate for a long time since Di2 XTR is about $3500. It's good to have options.


    fc
    That's $600 for a rear der bro!!! We scream when we lose a $89 XT der to a stick in the enchanted forest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cornfish View Post
    I've been using 1X exclusively for three years and have zero issues. I've done stage races, spent days in the Idaho backcountry at elevation and ridden all the local stuff. I have experienced no discernible difference in the available gearing between my 1X or any of the 2X or 3X drivetrains I have used. If one or two gear inches is a deal breaker 2X is probably the better choice.
    Give this man a beer, or two.

    +1000 on 1x

    Shimano is missing the boat on the 10T in the rear cass.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    So many potential zingers...so little time.......
    I hear that Rachel Dolezal self identifies as Squashyo's mom. I asked her, as directed by Squashy - but she didn't understand the question.
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    Nothing else to contribute here, so...
    I've been complaining all morning of an upset stomach, likely due to the enchiladas we had for dinner last night. I mention this as I'm shoveling the last piece of leftover enchilada into my mouth for lunch.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Svahn View Post
    Nothing else to contribute here, so...
    I've been complaining all morning of an upset stomach, likely due to the enchiladas we had for dinner last night. I mention this as I'm shoveling the last piece of leftover enchilada into my mouth for lunch.
    You wasted our time to tell us this. I hope you barf on your shoes!

  73. #73
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    My mom and her talking horse...I miss breast feeding.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1x11...I'm over it for hills-screen-shot-2015-07-10-12.17.23-pm.jpg  

    I'm not sure how this works.

  74. #74
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    A lot of the fascination with 1x11 is similar to that with singlespeed.

    It's much cleaner and lighter.

    I'm getting much fitter.

    I'm able to keep my momentum better.

    All are true and folks will try it and some will love it. It's not for everyone though since some are not as fit, motivated. And some have much bigger mountains or long fire roads.

    So after a while, people can make a choice and it will sort out between 1x and 2x. 3x is bullchit.
    IPA will save America

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    My mom and her talking horse...I miss breast feeding.
    Looks like the horse misses feeding time too

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    3x is bullchit.
    But it has way more range! Climb a steep mountain one day, then clip on aero bars and do a tri the next!

    P

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    Why is there not an MTBR "like" button?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    But it has way more range! Climb a steep mountain one day, then clip on aero bars and do a tri the next!

    P
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    y'all 1x11 sissies.

    Attachment 1001210

    no, this combination is not "supposed" to work. pretty sweet so far, and happy that MRP provided a chain guide with 28t compatibility, plus praxis for the cassette. zero small cog chain drops to date.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    My mom and her talking horse...I miss breast feeding.
    That's really your father!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    That's really your father!
    Mr. Ed...I mean, "dada!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    You can just do it by hand. Pro racers like Anne Caro Chausson have double rings in the front and switches to the small front ring by hand if she wants to conserve or rest during a transfer stage in a race.

    So the big ring is still narrow/wide (and can't take a shift by derailleur) but the chain can be lifted by hand to a small ring.



    fc
    Bingo! simple and elegant solution.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtJunky View Post
    Mr. Ed...I mean, "dada!"
    Oh no, you ain't hung like no horse. Your father is the one with the bikini.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    What was it like a year ago or more that 1x11 sort of took over? I sure was sold. Less bar/bike clutter, lighter, quieter...all good. Now that I have some miles under my belt with this trend, I gotta say, I miss my 2x10.

    Maybe I am getting older or what not but seems like I am always looking for that one more gear that is never there with a 1x11 (I'm running a 30 up front). On the uphill, my thumb constantly pushes a lever that has hit a wall as my legs scream for just a little mercy. On the downhill, I am always looking for that little extra torque that is all but gone past 25mph. The only solution I see is to sacrifice an uphill gear for a more DH speed or visa versa.

    Anyone else out there feel the same? That Di2 is looking like a sweet solution.
    Pretty funny--I just swapped the 3 x 10 for the 2 x 10 and Im diggin it. I HAVE to have my 40front-11rear on the DH, I was nervous giving up by 42 front--For all else a single front is fine--only time I use the 40T is on my DH runs--but without it riding would be stoopid--for me 28-40 up front rocks--cept Im noticing I wear out the 11T rear faster than Id like

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    Why is there not an MTBR "like" button?
    Triples are for road bikes. No, not even. Euros on road bikes. Maybe.

    The new SRAM Gx double group has more range than triples
    IPA will save America

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    My mom and her talking horse...I miss breast feeding.
    If Hannah's your mom you've aged prematurely...or is the horse your daddy?

    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  86. #86
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    Still rocking my 2x9 here. I want to do a 1x bad, but I'm not sure the trade offs for climbing stupid steep shit in LG are quite worth it. I'm running 22/36x11-34, and I just keep it in the big ring most of the time anyways.

    That said, I don't find myself in the smallest gears for that long, and I *could* make due with a slightly higher low gear ratio than what I have currently, and I might move to a 1x11 on a new bike. But then, I might not.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Triples are for road bikes. No, not even. Euros on road bikes. Maybe.

    The new SRAM Gx double group has more range than triples
    Yeah youre jsut not going fast enough euro or other

    Id be really happy to trade my 11T rear for a 10T--Hard to hit 40MPH with the 11T

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    Still rocking my 2x9 here. I want to do a 1x bad, but I'm not sure the trade offs for climbing stupid steep shit in LG are quite worth it. I'm running 22/36x11-34
    I went from 3x to 2x about a year ago. I used a 22/36 up front and a 11-36 in the rear. It was really hard for me to give up my 42 as I used it a lot but basically just for bombing downhill. Let me state this next part loudly. I FREAKING HATE ADJUSTING ANY FRONT DERAILEUR!!!

    With that being said I decided I wanted to go to 1x10. When I did this I accidentally ordered a 38 up front because for some reason that's what I thought I had on my 2x. I also got the OneUP 42t conversion kit for the cassette. So my gear ratio in the back is 11-42.

    I'm a big guy. 255 without gear. I ride long climbs in Auburn and will even get up to Tahoe at times. This gear ratio seems to be fine for me. I think if I was out of shape and put a 32 up front it would give me a similar granny gear as the way a 22 front 36 back would feel. I think gearing and everyone's different opinion comes down to what kind of riding shape you are in. For me 1x with that 38 up front gives me the ability to go from a real easy spinning climber to a bombing downhill gear quickly. I love not dealing with the front derailleur. I can't tell you how much time I have screwed around with one of those trying to get it to stop making noise.

    The most valuable thing I have got out of this post though had to be the person who said to put the smaller chainring on and manually switch to another gear up front. That was awesome. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I have been thinking about doing a ride up in Tahoe that I know is tough on the climbing. I must say I'm in my head a little and doing that will definitely make it much easier than changing my chainring trailside after I bonk...if I bonk.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbg33k View Post
    I FREAKING HATE ADJUSTING ANY FRONT DERAILEUR!!!
    How often do you need to do it?

    Usually I do it once a year or so, and then give an adjuster a turn when cable stretches.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    How often do you need to do it?

    Usually I do it once a year or so, and then give an adjuster a turn when cable stretches.
    Seriously. I pretty much only adjust my front derrailleur when I change cables. which, with solid cable housing pretty much means never.
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    I don't know what it is with my bike but it's more than that. Plus I have to do my bike, both my kids, and the old ladies bike. So one less and I'm a happier guy. I also really like only thinking about changing gears on one dérailleur. It just seems easier to me. To each their own. I'm sure the 3x vs. 2x vs 1x is one of those religion topics that everyone thinks those way is best. I'm not saying it's for everyone but it's definitely for me!

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbg33k View Post
    I don't know what it is with my bike but it's more than that. Plus I have to do my bike, both my kids, and the old ladies bike. So one less and I'm a happier guy. I also really like only thinking about changing gears on one dérailleur. It just seems easier to me. To each their own. I'm sure the 3x vs. 2x vs 1x is one of those religion topics that everyone thinks those way is best. I'm not saying it's for everyone but it's definitely for me!
    Cool!

    And I'm not saying that my set up is in any way better than anyone else's. I just think it's a good idea for people to know the differences.

    1X is a compromise. All be it - a pretty darn good one. It just may not be for everyone.

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    I second notion that manually changeable 2x is the best outcome of this thread. Now, who makes Narrow wide 24th 64BCD? I have space to waste on my cranks.

    BTW, running 30x36 on HD and 32x36 on Phoenix. Still can add 40 or 42 on the back if feel lazy, but throwing in 24 or 26 in front for "wasted, can't ride" moments sounds good.
    I used to run tubes like you are, but then I got thorn in my wheel.

  94. #94
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    Huh? You don't need NW for the emergency granny, it's not like your chain is gonna be bouncing all over the place while you're rocketing up the climb at 2 mph...

  95. #95
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    I have seen too many people blown up on Fireroad climbs with 1x11. I stayed with 2 x 10, 36 rear cassette. Sold XT front rings on EBAY new. I use Blackspire Super Pro front rings 34 and 24 on my XT cranks. As others noted, on UNFAMILIAR trails, I jump between front rings a lot, rather than shift rear. I really like to travel NORCAL, and see new trails, so the 2 x 10 setup is easy to climb new stuff, or navigate blind corner ups, or downs. 75% of rides are on Singlespeed, so having a 5 SPOT with correct gearing is great when I am tired legged. I rode with a twenty something year old pro racer a few months ago, and was blown away at his ability to climb fire roads (to get to the goods). 1x11. 34 front 42 rear, up 3000 feet, and I realized I will NEVER go 1 x 11.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimw View Post
    Huh? You don't need NW for the emergency granny, it's not like your chain is gonna be bouncing all over the place while you're rocketing up the climb at 2 mph...
    That will be called the Tractor gear !!
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimw View Post
    Huh? You don't need NW for the emergency granny, it's not like your chain is gonna be bouncing all over the place while you're rocketing up the climb at 2 mph...
    Granny keeps it quite well, as there are no shift ramps.
    I really do like one of those rotor oval rings as a granny. Seems to help a bunch when winching over steep chunks.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalk View Post
    I second notion that manually changeable 2x is the best outcome of this thread.
    All my bikes have been set up this way for the last 4 or 5 years; the evolution started with ditching the large ring and installing a bash guard. (To protect my flesh; I don't fancy big log-overs much) Then the realization that I don't use my front derailleur very much either (see my moniker). Blackspire chainrings and no 'mo front derailleur. Sometimes I do wish for a chain guide though...

    Places like Fort Ord I'd usually be in my "middle" (32t) ring all day while at places like Coe I'd be in "granny" (22t) mostly. For Coe I'd usually manually shift the front twice; to 22t on the way out and 32t on the way back (downhill!)

    Cassette = 9 spd 11~36 and BTW all I ride anymore are 29ers.

    If I can't climb something in 22 x 36 I'm better off getting off and pushing; it's faster and uses a different set of muscles.
    Last edited by Moe Ped; 07-11-2015 at 06:05 AM.
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  99. #99
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    Great thread on subject. Way better to have real trail use comparisons rather than the overly detailed gear inch/ratio number crunching.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  100. #100
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    Are there newer bike frames where 1x is the only option b/c of no place for front derailleur....?

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