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  1. #1
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    XT or Saint?

    What are is the difference from XT & Saint disc's?
    Is it posible to get XT calipers and Saint levers?
    The intended use is XC and I dont want the XT Combo shift/brake levers.
    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxer
    What are is the difference from XT & Saint disc's?
    Is it posible to get XT calipers and Saint levers?
    The intended use is XC and I dont want the XT Combo shift/brake levers.
    Thanks.
    You would be better off getting xt calipers and deore levers for XC use. Saint is heavy freeride gear.

  3. #3
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    XT 756 levers are still availible. By the by Saint disk brake calipers are in reality rebadged XTs.
    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    You would be better off getting xt calipers and deore levers for XC use. Saint is heavy freeride gear.

  4. #4

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    The XT and Saint calipers are the same, just different color and logo. Same goes for the levers, The XT 756 and levers are the same thing. The difference is the XT caliper kit comes with the rotor spline for standard centerlock hubs while the saint rotor will only fit on the oversized centerlock saint hubs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    XT 756 levers are still availible. By the by Saint disk brake calipers are in reality rebadged XTs.

    Doh, my bad. I must have been thinking of something else....

  6. #6
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    XT and Saint only look the same, but they're different. Saint caliper is much heavier than XT. German magazine did the test on different brakes and here's the quote from Nino's translation (from Save some weight forum) about the different brakes:

    Avid Juicy 7 (good / very good) very easy to set up, lacks a bit in power, very good ergonomics. no problems at all in the wet.

    Formula Oro (good / very good ) rated best brake! awesome power. heavier riders or marathon riders should look into the 185 or 200mm disc. in the wet still the same awesome power.

    Hayes HFX Magnesium (good / good) much power but not so good modulation. problems with overheating and warped rotors as well as some eventual squeeling. no problems in the wet.

    Magura Louise FR ( very good / very good) standard pads wore "in a minute"!! those pads lack in power and modulation as well. with different "performance" pads it would have won this shootout...ok in the wet once correct pads were installed.

    Shimano XT ( acceptable / good) with the small rotor and standard pads the brake overheats in no time, pads bend and get eaten away...bikers that do longer downhills or marathons should definitely get the big rotors to get more cooling and get pad wear to an acceptable level. if pads got hot once no power in the wet !

    Magura Julie 05 ( very good) needs a bit more handforce but otherwise good power.good brake for the money. ok in the wet with slightly higher handforce.

    Magura Marta ( very good) for lightweight racers the No 1 brake. good power and great modulation. heavier riders and marthonisti should get the big rotor. ok in the wet.

    Shimano Hone (acceptable) the same brake as the LX but with bigger rotors has good durability BUT lacks in power and has some fading. needs a powerful pull at the levers..no real fun for freeriders. even less power in the wet but modulation is ok.

    Shimano LX ( weak) weak in power, when heated up long pull and soft feel at the lever,high pad wear, no feel at the lever when hot, even in the wet weak power.

    Shimano Saint ( very good) good freeride brake. power is ok but doesn't reach the Louise FR. needs a heavy pull on the levers for hard stops. lacks modulation in the wet and has no power anymore.

    Shimano XTR ( good) power ok for lighter riders.for hard braking a heavy pull is needed. feel at the lever is a bit soft but good modulation. overheats and then the lever "becomes long" and needs even more handforce. much lower power in the wet make it hard to modulate.

  7. #7
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    Isn't it interesting that the GERMAN brakes did the best in a GERMAN brake test???
    Yes, Floppy is right the Saint caliper is a whopping 13 grams heavier (less than half an ounce) than the XT.
    Quote Originally Posted by FloppyRN
    XT and Saint only look the same, but they're different. Saint caliper is much heavier than XT. German magazine did the test on different brakes and here's the quote from Nino's translation (from Save some weight forum) about the different brakes:

    Avid Juicy 7 (good / very good) very easy to set up, lacks a bit in power, very good ergonomics. no problems at all in the wet.

    Formula Oro (good / very good ) rated best brake! awesome power. heavier riders or marathon riders should look into the 185 or 200mm disc. in the wet still the same awesome power.

    Hayes HFX Magnesium (good / good) much power but not so good modulation. problems with overheating and warped rotors as well as some eventual squeeling. no problems in the wet.

    Magura Louise FR ( very good / very good) standard pads wore "in a minute"!! those pads lack in power and modulation as well. with different "performance" pads it would have won this shootout...ok in the wet once correct pads were installed.

    Shimano XT ( acceptable / good) with the small rotor and standard pads the brake overheats in no time, pads bend and get eaten away...bikers that do longer downhills or marathons should definitely get the big rotors to get more cooling and get pad wear to an acceptable level. if pads got hot once no power in the wet !

    Magura Julie 05 ( very good) needs a bit more handforce but otherwise good power.good brake for the money. ok in the wet with slightly higher handforce.

    Magura Marta ( very good) for lightweight racers the No 1 brake. good power and great modulation. heavier riders and marthonisti should get the big rotor. ok in the wet.

    Shimano Hone (acceptable) the same brake as the LX but with bigger rotors has good durability BUT lacks in power and has some fading. needs a powerful pull at the levers..no real fun for freeriders. even less power in the wet but modulation is ok.

    Shimano LX ( weak) weak in power, when heated up long pull and soft feel at the lever,high pad wear, no feel at the lever when hot, even in the wet weak power.

    Shimano Saint ( very good) good freeride brake. power is ok but doesn't reach the Louise FR. needs a heavy pull on the levers for hard stops. lacks modulation in the wet and has no power anymore.

    Shimano XTR ( good) power ok for lighter riders.for hard braking a heavy pull is needed. feel at the lever is a bit soft but good modulation. overheats and then the lever "becomes long" and needs even more handforce. much lower power in the wet make it hard to modulate.

  8. #8
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    Pads...

    Quote Originally Posted by FloppyRN
    XT and Saint only look the same, but they're different. Saint caliper is much heavier than XT. German magazine did the test on different brakes and here's the quote from Nino's translation (from Save some weight forum) about the different brakes:

    Shimano Saint ( very good) good freeride brake. power is ok but doesn't reach the Louise FR. needs a heavy pull on the levers for hard stops. lacks modulation in the wet and has no power anymore.
    Sounds like they were using the standard Shimano resin pads which are indeed pants in the wet. Sintered pads give more bite and feel wet or dry with both Saint and XT. Fwiw I run a set of each on different bikes and, with the same rotor size, can't detect any difference between the two in performance.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by FloppyRN
    XT and Saint only look the same, but they're different. Saint caliper is much heavier than XT. German magazine did the test on different brakes and here's the quote from Nino's translation (from Save some weight forum) about the different brakes:

    Avid Juicy 7 (good / very good) very easy to set up, lacks a bit in power, very good ergonomics. no problems at all in the wet.

    Formula Oro (good / very good ) rated best brake! awesome power. heavier riders or marathon riders should look into the 185 or 200mm disc. in the wet still the same awesome power.

    Hayes HFX Magnesium (good / good) much power but not so good modulation. problems with overheating and warped rotors as well as some eventual squeeling. no problems in the wet.

    Magura Louise FR ( very good / very good) standard pads wore "in a minute"!! those pads lack in power and modulation as well. with different "performance" pads it would have won this shootout...ok in the wet once correct pads were installed.

    Shimano XT ( acceptable / good) with the small rotor and standard pads the brake overheats in no time, pads bend and get eaten away...bikers that do longer downhills or marathons should definitely get the big rotors to get more cooling and get pad wear to an acceptable level. if pads got hot once no power in the wet !

    Magura Julie 05 ( very good) needs a bit more handforce but otherwise good power.good brake for the money. ok in the wet with slightly higher handforce.

    Magura Marta ( very good) for lightweight racers the No 1 brake. good power and great modulation. heavier riders and marthonisti should get the big rotor. ok in the wet.

    Shimano Hone (acceptable) the same brake as the LX but with bigger rotors has good durability BUT lacks in power and has some fading. needs a powerful pull at the levers..no real fun for freeriders. even less power in the wet but modulation is ok.

    Shimano LX ( weak) weak in power, when heated up long pull and soft feel at the lever,high pad wear, no feel at the lever when hot, even in the wet weak power.

    Shimano Saint ( very good) good freeride brake. power is ok but doesn't reach the Louise FR. needs a heavy pull on the levers for hard stops. lacks modulation in the wet and has no power anymore.

    Shimano XTR ( good) power ok for lighter riders.for hard braking a heavy pull is needed. feel at the lever is a bit soft but good modulation. overheats and then the lever "becomes long" and needs even more handforce. much lower power in the wet make it hard to modulate.
    The XT and Saint are exactly the same. Take a good look and you'll see there is absolutely no difference other than the color. THe difference in weight can be attributed to the mounting hardware. The XT's come standard with the 160mm rotor adaptor while the Saints bring the larger 203mm adaptor.
    That test is a huge load of crap. They are just looking to find differences that aren't there and just goes to show that subjective tests are typically absolutely worthless. All Shimano brakes use exactly the same master cylinder and piston design. The only change is the amount of material on them and mounting hardware. Their performance is identical, that means the XTR will perform the same as the Saint given the same pads (which they don't specify what they used) and rotor size.

  10. #10
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    Check the shimano site...
    They list the Saint caliper as being heavier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    The XT and Saint are exactly the same. Take a good look and you'll see there is absolutely no difference other than the color. THe difference in weight can be attributed to the mounting hardware. The XT's come standard with the 160mm rotor adaptor while the Saints bring the larger 203mm adaptor.
    That test is a huge load of crap. They are just looking to find differences that aren't there and just goes to show that subjective tests are typically absolutely worthless. All Shimano brakes use exactly the same master cylinder and piston design. The only change is the amount of material on them and mounting hardware. Their performance is identical, that means the XTR will perform the same as the Saint given the same pads (which they don't specify what they used) and rotor size.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    Check the shimano site...
    They list the Saint caliper as being heavier.
    YES! They do list it as heavier because the listed shimano weight includes the mounting adapters for both the XT's and Saint. Like I said, Saint comes with bigger 8" mounting adapters which weigh obviously more than the 6" adapter the XT brings. XT and saint are 74mm post mount calipers only. Like hayes they require adapters to mount on IS tabs. Notice that shimano specifies the adapter weight IS included in their weight spec.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lebikerboy
    Isn't it interesting that the GERMAN brakes did the best in a GERMAN brake test???
    Yes, Floppy is right the Saint caliper is a whopping 13 grams heavier (less than half an ounce) than the XT.
    Then why is an Italian brake rated top in the test? Since the tests were apparently with stock pads, big surprise that Shimano's didn't do as well? Ever continue using Shimano rim brake pads after the first set wore out?
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
    suum quique

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badly Wired Dog
    Sounds like they were using the standard Shimano resin pads which are indeed pants in the wet. Sintered pads give more bite and feel wet or dry with both Saint and XT. Fwiw I run a set of each on different bikes and, with the same rotor size, can't detect any difference between the two in performance.
    I completely agree that the german test used stock pads. I, for one, think that's the main flaw of the test. If they use one set of pads, such as EBC gold or red, on all brakes, then a meaningful results can be obtained. Just look at the attached image that I provided that has been posted here recently. The XTR gained almost 117 by just changing the pads. For reference, Magura Gustav is at 526, Oro at 482, and Saint at 405; all of this results are from OEM pads. Assuming that the same can be true to Saint just by changing the pads, Saint will be at 522 at its max power, but I doubt it will get that 522.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    The XT and Saint are exactly the same. Take a good look and you'll see there is absolutely no difference other than the color. THe difference in weight can be attributed to the mounting hardware. The XT's come standard with the 160mm rotor adaptor while the Saints bring the larger 203mm adaptor.
    That test is a huge load of crap. They are just looking to find differences that aren't there and just goes to show that subjective tests are typically absolutely worthless. All Shimano brakes use exactly the same master cylinder and piston design. The only change is the amount of material on them and mounting hardware. Their performance is identical, that means the XTR will perform the same as the Saint given the same pads (which they don't specify what they used) and rotor size.
    Actually, probably the main difference is the type of material used in the calipers themselves. I'm willing to bet that the XT and XTR calipers are made of different materials, because the XTR is so much lighter than the XT caliper, the same with the Saint, probably uses a heavier material to make it stronger than the XT.
    Anything worth doing is worth overdoing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeylessXPRider
    Actually, probably the main difference is the type of material used in the calipers themselves. I'm willing to bet that the XT and XTR calipers are made of different materials, because the XTR is so much lighter than the XT caliper, the same with the Saint, probably uses a heavier material to make it stronger than the XT.
    There's no difference in materials. You are all just not taking into consideration that shimano lists the TOTAL weight of their disc systems INCLUDING THE MOUNTING ADAPTERS. I have the XTR and XT's. I can clearly see by putting them side to side that there is a considerable amount of extra material on the XT's. Even so their difference in weight is not as dramatic as you think. The weight of the XT factors in 4 bolts and an adapter as opposed to the XTR's which only require two bolts and no adapter since they already have the IS tabs integrated. The XT like the Saint only comes in 74mm post mount standard, just like Hayes. This is what you all don't understand. The XT caliper is actually not that much heavier at all. The front XT caliper I think 150g with the adapter and 4 bolts. If you remove all the extra hardware the caliper itself is only about 120g. The 74mm post mount version of the XTR for reference is 104g. Not a huge difference when only comparing the calipers on even terms. If you weigh the 74mm to IS adapter for 203mm rotors you will see its heavier than the 74mm to IS 160mm rotor adapter. The difference in weight between these two is the small difference in weight you see in the XT and Saint specs. XT's weights are listed including the 160mm adapter they bring stock and Saint calipers are listed with the 203mm adapter thay bring stock. The 203mm adapter is larger and obviously heavier. The main difference between the two groups is the Saint caliper brings the oversized centerlock hubs required for use with Saint hubs.

  16. #16
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    Hand weighed

    And yet all these are are just numbers on paper, to really size them up you have to actually, hold or weigh them to actually see if there is a weight difference. I've held an XTR caliper and that thing was stinky light compared to the Saint which is larger than both the XT and XTR line of brakes, mind you I actually have a set of Saint Hydraulic disc brakes on my bike and the calipers are big.
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  17. #17

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    what then is good break pad to use onn XT or other breaks?

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    I'd recommend using the semi metallic I think, or sintered which may be the same thing (not sure on that one).

    Anyways, I hope no one is bent out of shape about what I said, I'm just stating the facts on actually hand weighing them myself.
    Anything worth doing is worth overdoing...

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  19. #19
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    Talked to Shimano yesterday, the XT and Saint calipers ARE exactly the same except for appearance.
    Quote Originally Posted by WeylessXPRider
    I'd recommend using the semi metallic I think, or sintered which may be the same thing (not sure on that one).

    Anyways, I hope no one is bent out of shape about what I said, I'm just stating the facts on actually hand weighing them myself.

  20. #20
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    My XTs came with both the resin and semi-metallic sets of pads, resin were just OK in the wet but useless in the dry when it came to sustained braking power (I'm 210# and ride steep up/downs). They didn't last 200 miles and are sooo soft you can peck them away with your fingernail. OTOH the semi metallic have very good power and last about 3X as long. Only problem is a growling sound when applied, but not a REAL problem. Next set I get will be galfer. I recently purchased a second set of semimetallics (which are the same as the XTR pads as the 765 XTs) on sale so it will take a couple months before I re-order pads. Would like to hear if galfers are worth it? Thanks!

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