Switch to TRP quadiem from XT?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Switch to TRP quadiem from XT?

    Should I switch from XT to TRP quadiem?

    Would it be more powerful than XT?

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  2. #2
    Trail Gnome
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    Which XT brakes do you currently own? The 4 piston XTís will be more powerful than the 2 piston models.

    I currently have the G-spec Quadiem brakes... Iíve had them for about a year and a half. They have tons of modulation but, it feels like I have to squeeze so hard just to get them to stop the bike...they always stop the bike in time, and fully controlled. I guess Im so used to running Shimano brakes, with no modulation.

  3. #3
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    It kind of depends on why youíre wanting to switch.

    Also, do you currently have 2piston xt , or 4 piston xt ?

    The quadiems should be more powerful than the 2 piston xt brakes, and have more modulation than either. Also, I donít hear anything about wandering bite points with quadiems, nor have I ever experienced it with my pair.

    That said, xtís are good brakes. Iíd probably only switch if I had the 2 piston xtís, or I actively disliked something about them (lever feel/shape/relative lack of modulation/etc).

    Good luck making the choice .

  4. #4
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    I am building up my wreckoning bike with 4 pistons brakes

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  5. #5
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    Then the biggest difference will be lever feel/shape, and the modulation then, as the power will be similar.

    Quadiems have a linear leverage ratio (unlike the XT's), which means they have better modulation, at the beginning, but does also mean that at the end of the lever pull, you may find yourself pulling the lever harder than you're used to with the XT's. Whether or not thats a good thing, is pretty much just personal preference.

    I've never owned a set of XT's. I know I read about people arguing about if they suffer from changing bite point/etc. I can't comment on if that happens or not. I can say that my Quadiems have been super reliable. They haven't ever faded, made weird noises, pumped up, or anything else, and haven't needed a bleed yet (only ~7 months though). They just seem to work for me.

    But yeah, its mostly a feel/preference decision at this point.

    If you're looking for more power, I'd check out the new TRP ebike/DH brake, and the 225mm rotor that goes with it.

  6. #6
    Trail Gnome
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    Picard...where did you go???

  7. #7
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    Looks like a new DHR model is available. Any intel out there?

  8. #8
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    Looks like the quadiems master cylinder/lever blade design, with a new caliper using the same size pistons as the quadiems.

    The main difference is it needs a 2.3mm thick rotor. The thicker rotors are said to resist heat soak better (thus less chance of it fading on long downhills), and less chance of it deforming and coming out of true.

    The big draw for me for the DHR, is actually the rotor size. TRP sells a 225mm rotor, but only in the 2.3mm thickness. Since we know that braking power scales more or less linearly with the change in rotor size, that means just that alone gives it ~10% more power than a 200mm rotor.

  9. #9
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    I'm wondering if that new clipper would keep the TRP modulation, or if it'll end up being more like the Shimano feel. The new caliper looks a lot like the SRAM code style, big pad opening should add to the heat management.
    No reviews out there that I could find.

  10. #10
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    Quadiem have 4x16 mm pistons, whereas SRAM Code have 2x15 + 2x16 mm pistons.
    Quadiem have linear lever trigger actuation, same as SRAM.
    Quadiem have a relatively big lever trigger, same as SRAM.

    Quadiem are certainly more powerful than any 2-pot brakes.
    BUT!
    - They are less powerful than any Shimano 4-pot brakes (2x16 + 2x18 mm pistons).
    - They are less powerful than any Magura 4-pot brakes (4x17 mm pistons).
    One simply can't trick out physics.
    Don't ask me by how much weaker Quadiem are!
    - The lever trigger HAS TO BE bigger than any Shimano/Magura, because of this linear actuation, which can seem to be great across most lever trigger travel, but at the end of the travel, one has to use more fingers' strength each time to reach max power, which is more fatiguing if you have a lot of high and steep descents.
    And even more so if you don't have big hands.

    I prefer Shimano's Servo-Wave curve of lever trigger travel, since the dipper you progress through the travel, the more is power increase amplified, which requires much less fingers efforts for max power, if needed.
    I never had any troubles to modulate any 4-pot Shimano brakes.
    You just get used to it very quickly.
    Also any 4-pot brakes have always more/better modulation than any 2-pot, Shimano 4-pot are no exception.
    Plenty of modulation across almost all the lever trigger travel and if power is needed, you have it at the end of the travel.

    I also prefer Shimano 4-pot, because of finned pads, which provide more surface for heat to spread and greatly help to reduce temp, since the fins are above the caliper, which makes them exposed to the wind, thus keeping rotors longer true, less fade and also better longevity of the pads.
    + ceramic pistons properties are better than those of metallic pistons, to evacuate heat much quicker.
    Unlike Quadiem, where there are no fins above, but grooves in the calipers, which never face the wind, thus being just aesthetic thing.
    So less performance because of smaller pistons + less surface for heat to spread and not cooled as effectively.

    No fanboy post here.
    Just physics.
    Larger pistons + larger pads + more surface + fins + fins better placed + better pistons material = less fade/wear = more constant/better power + easier to max it out, if needed.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  11. #11
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    The side effect of servo wave moving the pads further per amount of lever pull at the beginning of the pull, is that it the initial bite is stronger. Itís one of the reasons that Shimano brakes have a reputation for less modulation that many of their competitors.

    Itís not a good or bad thing, itís just.. a thing. A preference really.

    The quadiems donít have the largest pistons, itís true. The big lever blade does give it quite a bit of leverage though, and while it doesnít have finned pads (which makes it the same as... everyone other than shimano). It does have a very large master cylinder volume, which gives it a huge amount of fade resistance and consistency.

    Iím not claiming they are the best by any means. But, they are ballpark competitive as enduro/dh brakes. Enduro-mtb has a good test that was actually quite scientific. They measured braking force at a given lever pressure. They also measured deceleration times from certain speeds.

    The quadiems braking force was decent, and itís deceleration times were actually better than the Guide/Code R/RSC, and is solidly midpack in the shimano and magura lineups.

    https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/

    Anyway, again, Iím not trying to prove/argue that theyíre somehow the best. I do think they are a solid upgrade from any two piston setup, and depending on your preferences they may be great choice in the 4 piston realm.

    Iím very happy with mine, but I did nearly go with a shimano zee setup.

  12. #12
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    Ah yes, it's good that Quadiem have vertically adjustable banjo, but unlike current 4-pot SLX/XT/XTR Trail that all have the banjo placed at right side (also vertically adjustable), it's placed on the left side, so the hose has to always be redirected to the right side on all forks and frames, which is not nice at all.

    And!
    Quadiem have the bleed port at the highest point of the caliper, which gives more chance to air bubbles to stay in the lowest caliper point and also easy to contaminate pads, whereas current 4-pot SLX/XT/XTR Trail have the bleed port at the lowest point of the caliper, so easier to bleed air free and no need to remove pads to avoid contamination.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  13. #13
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    Quadiem are more expensive than current 4-pot XT Trail (BR-M8120) for less max power, more heat (since less surface and no fins) = more fade & more pads/rotors wear and more fingers' strength required.

    If you consider current 4-pot SLX Trail, that are same as XT (power as well), just missing the useless freestroke adjustment bolt and different paint job, but have same levers, calipers and pads, for even lower price...

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  14. #14
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    I certainly don't say that Quadiem are not good.
    They're not well priced for what they offer. That's what I want to say.
    Sure, certainly because smaller company, higher production costs, because lower quantity.
    But who cares.

    If one is willing to pay more just because of feel difference, that's a different story.
    But as already mentioned, never had any troubles to manage the power of any 4-pot Shimanos.

    I'm not saying all of the above just because I have Shimano brakes myself, to justify the purchase or to convince myself.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  15. #15
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    I never experience bite point wandering or pumping when steep descents or/and cold weather.

    I never have air in the system, which can appear when pads wear out and some oil flows from reservoir into the system to compensate for pads and air replaces the volume of oil lost in the reservoir and this air can then migrate from lever to caliper if steep descents, because of calipers being higher that the levers.

    From time to time I simply funnel bleed to remove air appeared in the reservoir, because of pads wear and when I have to push pistons back for new pads, I simply attach the funnel to remove by then excess oil.

    So no matter how steep the descents will be, since no air in the reservoir = no air in the system.

    I don't run Shimano (10 WT) mineral oil since several years, which gets much thicker when it gets cold vs. how it is when at ambient, thus when you push the lever(s) relatively quickly, since the oil is very thick it can't follow lever(s) movements as quickly.
    So imagine you push the lever(s) completely and the oil is pushed completely as well.
    But when you release the lever(s), the oil flows back slower than the speed of lever(s) release.
    So when you push a second time, you compress air between the oil and the lever, since the oil is still further away from the master piston of the lever.

    I use Putoline HPX R (2.5 WT) premium quality synthetic oil, which is much thinner than Shimano mineral oil at ambient temp and when very very cold, maintains almost same viscosity as at ambient temperature and thus oil can follow the movements of the lever without problems.
    And despite being much thinner than original Shimano mineral oil, it's not less heat resistant!

    No degradation of any seals after several years of usage of Putoline HPX R (2.5 WT).
    Very consistent and firm lever feel at all times.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  16. #16
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    Glad we're on the same page . If you notice, my first post was mostly if the OP was coming from 2 piston XT's (and therefore, probably looking for more power), or 4 piston XT's (which may mean they're looking for more modulation).

    Because IF you are looking for a high modulation 4 piston brake, the quadiem should be on the list IMO (along with the Codes, and others of course).

    If you're simply looking for more power than 2 piston XT, then the quadiem could fit as well, but as you say, if its a good choice or not will likely depend more on preferences/budget/current pricing.

    For what its worth, I got my Quadiems for ~$103 each (F/R for $206). At that price, I think they were a steal of a deal, especially for my preferences.

    Looking online, I see they are currently $125/each, which puts them at $5 more than XT (FWIW, I checked WorldWideCyclery, for reference). So the XT and SLX would be cheaper.

    To your points:

    Personally, the banjo location on a brake is low on my personal priority list (although, having a banjo is nice). Because I was curious, I went out and looked at my bike, to see what effect that had, as the left/right placement wasn't anything I thought about when buying/installing them.

    On the front (Rockshox Yari), the hose has to travel just as far left, as it would be if the banjo was placed on the right side of the caliper. So, left/right placement really makes no difference there in hose length/angles (just the direction). On the rear, on my frame (Kona Process), the hose does bend more/travel farther to the left, but it would still not line up on where it enters the frame on my bike if it was on the right.

    In terms of what that placement actually means in real world terms? I guess maybe fractionally more weight (because a tiny bit more hose length), and potentially more exposure to trailside debris? Although, the left side would be more protected from anything caught in the spokes, so maybe that's a wash? So, I agree, interesting point... just not sure its one I'll consider strongly in the future.

    As far as bleeding port placement, you very may well be right about what is most technically correct. I can say though, that both in reviews (including the endure MTB test I linked to before), and my personal experience, the brakes are incredibly reliable, and easy to bleed. Enduro mtb said their pair didn't need any bleeds in over 6 months of testing. I'm at about 9 months on mine, but I'm only an occasional rider, so I'm betting they had more distance on theirs, so my 9 months isn't necessarily a huge accomplishment.

    Oh, and one more thing. I was reading another TRP owners thread, and they mentioned that the shimano finned pads do fit, if you trim it down in width a bit. Personally that sounds like a bit too much work for me (for the benefit you get, and my current riding style), but it sounds like it is possible, so I thought I'd mention it .

    Anyway, that's my two cents. Good luck to the OP on deciding what they want to do .

  17. #17
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    I switched from XT to quadiem and just sold them to get back on XT (actually all three of my bikes now with XT 8000, 8020, 8120)...it was a fun experiment and they werenít bad brakes but I much prefer the lever size and feel on shimano brakes.


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  18. #18
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    If SRAM Code vs. TRP Quadiem, then Quadiem, since cheaper, more power and better quality than all non RSC Codes.

    A lot of non RCS Codes still exibit master piston and calipers pistons problem(s), because of temperature that makes plastic master piston and metallic calipers pistons expand and they can't retract properly/at all.
    Whereas none of RSCs have this problem(s), since RSCs have phenolic pistons, which are almost on par with ceramic pistons + they have ball bearings for really nice/smooth operation of the lever, but the price...

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  19. #19
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    Also all the reviews that one can find for different brakes, are not that perfect, since they test the brakes with different types of pads, which from one side is logical, since they test the performance out of the box/stock.

    BUT!
    If you take as example Shimano Zee (BR-M640) vs. 4-pot Deore (BR-MT520) vs. 4-pot XT (BR-M8020) vs. 4-pot SLX (BR-M7120) vs. Saint (BR-M820) vs. 4-pot XT/XTR (BR-M8120/9120), they all will deliver different power just because of different stock pads.

    Because Zee and 4-pot Deore come stock with non-finned organic pads, that are 40% worse than aftermarket original Shimano finned organic pads or those of stock SLX (BR-M7120) pads.
    4-pot XT (BR-M8020) come stock with finned organic pads, that are 20% worse than aftermarket original Shimano finned organic pads or those of stock SLX (BR-M7120) pads.
    Saint and 4-pot XT/XTR (BR-M8120/9120) come stock with finned sintered pads, that are even better than aftermarket original Shimano finned organic pads.

    So to have a good idea of real performance of all of the above, one should test them all with finned sintered pads for example.
    And guess what? Performance of cheapest 4-pot Deore will be same as for Saint/XTR.
    Just more weight, no tools free adjustment, not as nice paint job and shape of calipers/levers and no adjustable banjo.

    Also in the reviews they only test peak power, but not power over time, which would have shown which of them are more fade resistant.

    Same "tricks" with 2-pot Deore vs. SLX vs. XT vs. XTR.
    Power difference depends only on pads that come stock.

    Same "tricks" with 4-pot Magura MT5 vs. MT7.
    Power difference depends only on pads that come stock.

    Not even talking of them using different rotors instead of choosing same rotor model that they would have used for testing all the brakes to have consistent results.
    Something like 180 mm Hope 2 mm rotor.
    But same story here.
    Advised to use brakes with rotors that they were developed/tested with by manufacturers.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  20. #20
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    Comparing TRP Quadiem vs. Shimano Saint/XT (BR-M8120) using same model of rotor is also not really possible, since Quadiem come stock with semi-metallic pads whereas Shimanos come stock with finned sintered pads.
    One could of course replace Shimano finned sintered pads by non-finned ones, but they will still not be semi-metallic.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  21. #21
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    Since one can buy aftermarket original sintered TRP pads for Quadiem or simply fit original non-finned sintered Shimano pads, since they are of same shape/size, one can reliably test power difference with same rotor model.
    But Shimanos will still be more powerful with same pads because of 2 larger pistons.

    I doubt that more oil in the system can be as effective as finned pads.

    Just learned that Quadiem have hybrid ceramic/steel pistons.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  22. #22
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    @ Groove_c , tnx for all the info you sharing, much appreciate!

    As for the OP, in the end its all personal preference. All of these brakes are good, only by trying you'll find which one fits you best.

    From all the brakes i tried (Quadiem, Guide R/RSC, Code R/RSC, MT Trail, MT7 & XT 2/4 pistons), i ended up with XT BR-M8020, running them all the season without any problems what so ever. I like everything about them - plenty of power and modulation, love the lever feel, easy to maintain, fair price plus i can get parts everywhere.

    The only thing i wondered about was how my XT compared to the Saint. But tnx to Groove_c posts i found out the only difference is the stock pads they coming with.

  23. #23
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    Aftermarket Shimano 4-pot organic pads contain more metal than aftermarket 2-pot Shimano organic pads, so I would rather call them semi-metallic.

    So the most wear resistant and most powerful aftermarket Shimano organic pads for Saint/Zee/XT (BR-M8020) are finned H03A ones.

    It's much more cost effective to set brakes apart performance wise by just selling them with different quality of stock pads rather than modify physically all the brakes to create differences.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    Aftermarket Shimano 4-pot organic pads contain more metal than aftermarket 2-pot Shimano organic pads, so I would rather call them semi-metallic.

    So the most wear resistant and most powerful aftermarket Shimano organic pads for Saint/Zee/XT (BR-M8020) are finned H03A ones.
    These are the ones im using, they are much better from the originals that came with my XT BR-M8020, more power but still not noisy like the metallic.

  25. #25
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    Shimano sell XT (BR-M8020) with cheap organic pads not that much to lower their price, but so they can maintain higher price for Saint that they still produce.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

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