So, i've decided that i need 4-pots- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    So, i've decided that i need 4-pots

    Well, after all the overheating issues with my Juicy 5s, i've decided that Codes are what i need. The juicy is a good brake, but it's just not enough for my weight and riding style. I want to stick with Avid because i already have the Avid bleed kit, and i LOVE sram's customer service.

    BUT! just to kind of confirm that i want them, i'd appreciate it if anybody who has ever used them would give me a bit of a review. I don't really trust the "reviews" in the review section, half of them are good, a quarter of them are bad, and the last quarter of them appear to be written by gorillas.

    Just little things like modulation, power, lever feel, etc.

    Cheers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    The way I see it right now, if my bike is too heavy, then I'm too weak!

  2. #2
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    I think the general preference on here for 4 pot brakes is this: Hayes Stroker Ace, then Saints, then Codes.
    Keep the Country country.

  3. #3
    newie
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    how heavy are you and what do you ride? 4 pots aren't really necessary if you get your braking skills dialed. well, unless you're a clyde or doing some epic decents

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrien
    unless you're a clyde or doing some epic decents
    Why yes, yes i am a clyde doing epic decents

    I should have posted this first, it outlines my situation.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=574504

    I've read around about using juicy and similar brakes for DH and they all say that you usually will get sore fingers from having to squeeze them so hard, and now that i read about it, i DO get the after ride "claw."

    And i think i can get a pretty good deal on the Codes
    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    The way I see it right now, if my bike is too heavy, then I'm too weak!

  5. #5
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    I got hayes stroker 4 pots, they will end up on my dh bike but it was the end of the season and i had to try out my new toys on a regular basis so i couldn't just install the 4 pots on the dh bike and switch over the the regular strokers to th "xc" bike.They don't feel all that grabby,i think, because of the longer pads,but if you go past that just a bit the braking power really comes on very strong ,you can hear it in the front knobbys.One finger stopping will be totally doable but any change in style like that takes me a while to blend in, i might also need to do a total brake upgrade on my motorcycle,to really get in the single finger brake habit,i'm trying to go moto on the levers but it still takes some thinking.

  6. #6
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    Well, it looks like i might be trading my juicys for codes i need more brake, the other guy needs less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    The way I see it right now, if my bike is too heavy, then I'm too weak!

  7. #7
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    Ahhheemmmmmmm (cough) HOPE M4s!!!!! (cough) cant go wrong!!!!

  8. #8
    I think I need to Upgrade
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    Quote Originally Posted by 130tc
    Ahhheemmmmmmm (cough) HOPE M4s!!!!! (cough) cant go wrong!!!!
    However you can go totaly RIGHT!!

  9. #9
    I think I need to Upgrade
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJK
    Well, it looks like i might be trading my juicys for codes i need more brake, the other guy needs less.

    If/when you need to bleed the codes (if you get them of course) even though they can use DOT5.1 fluid stick with a high temp DOT4 fluid (Valvoline Synthetic) I am not sure why and the guys at SRAM couldn't tell me either but you will likely get a firmer lever with the DOT4 over the 5.1. SRAM also reccomended that I flush the fresh 5.1 with 4 to get a firm lever.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    I think the general preference on here for 4 pot brakes is this: Hayes Stroker Ace, then Saints, then Codes.
    Isn't that also the price order? Descending

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 130tc
    Ahhheemmmmmmm (cough) HOPE M4s!!!!! (cough) cant go wrong!!!!
    I think you can:

    - No more powerfull then magura Louise
    - No better modulation then magura louise
    - Noisy when wet
    - quite a hassele to set up compared to other brakes (fix caliper and fight with the pistons to get them to come out balanced vs. press brake and tighten caliper)
    - cost more then the magura louise

    Good brakes but not worth the hassle or noise. Then again if comparing to juicys both of them are in a completly different league.

  12. #12
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    I am not sure whats up with an above poster putting Hayes over Saint and Codes, Saints are supposedly a god send and Codes are a very solid brake. To be fair I haven't ridden Hayes, but I hear a lot of issues from Hayes riders, and I never hear that their brakes are good. Its just word of mouth though, so I suppose it doesn't count for that much. I ride Codes, 203mm front and 185mm rear, and couldn't be happier. My rear is in need of a caliper rebuild, through no fault of the brake, just improper installation of the rear wheel, and that prevents it from holding a good bleed very well. My front has been completely solid for a year of good riding, and has been through its first set of pads just now, and my rear is rideable, just goes spongy every month or so, and requires 5 minutes of my time to get it back to that super firm feel. I am no lightweight at 240 pounds, and I am not very easy on brakes. the power isn't grabby at all, plenty manageable, but I have ridden more linear brakes. I give them a 9/10, docking one star b/c of the weight, but if you're looking closely at codes, I can't imagine that matters at all to you.
    Save the Earth, Ride a Cyclist

  13. #13
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    In another thread disussing 4 pots some people said they prefer the feel of the Hayes. Saints were too grabby, codes were too squishy and needed frequent bleeds. I've never owned any of these (just fine with 203mm XTs) and I'm repeating info from a previous thread.
    Keep the Country country.

  14. #14
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    hmm guy decided to list them on egay... DAMMIT! maybe if i win the bidding battle i'll swap the juicys over to the rockhopper and sell the BB5s... *sigh* i hate brakes... too much money!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    The way I see it right now, if my bike is too heavy, then I'm too weak!

  15. #15
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    Dropadrop, you're dead wrong. The M4s beat Louises in ever way. You can dial them so they bite with almost downhill braking power, or tune them down so they have incredible modulation. Also, there are NO brakes out that are intended to be setup with just a pull the lever and forget about it method. You ALWAYS need to centralize the caliper, which really makes me doubt how knowledgeable you are about the subject, and if you've ever even owned the M4s. They are a pleasure to work on compared to other brakes. There is also no noise when wet, although if you're a bone head and setup your brakes the lazy way, it's not much surprise they don't perform perfectly.

    To the OP. If you're not willing to pay the price for the Hope Tech M4s, which are the best 4 pots on the market, buy a set of old XT 4 pots. They are the runners up, and a lot of people on this forum love them. I actually have a set for sale, with 180mm rotors and mounting hardware. Just PM me if you're interested.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggidy
    Dropadrop, you're dead wrong. The M4s beat Louises in ever way. You can dial them so they bite with almost downhill braking power, or tune them down so they have incredible modulation. Also, there are NO brakes out that are intended to be setup with just a pull the lever and forget about it method. You ALWAYS need to centralize the caliper, which really makes me doubt how knowledgeable you are about the subject, and if you've ever even owned the M4s. They are a pleasure to work on compared to other brakes. There is also no noise when wet, although if you're a bone head and setup your brakes the lazy way, it's not much surprise they don't perform perfectly.

    To the OP. If you're not willing to pay the price for the Hope Tech M4s, which are the best 4 pots on the market, buy a set of old XT 4 pots. They are the runners up, and a lot of people on this forum love them. I actually have a set for sale, with 180mm rotors and mounting hardware. Just PM me if you're interested.
    PM sent
    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    The way I see it right now, if my bike is too heavy, then I'm too weak!

  17. #17
    FM
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    I have to agree the old XT 4-pots are the shiz.
    I certainly prefer them over all the brakes mentioned in this thread so far. I've found them hard to beat, although I am very happy with the Avid Elxir R's on my Hardtail so far.

    I have some XT 4-pots for sale as well, with pimpy straitline levers and hope hoses.
    Here's my MTBR ad so I am all legit & proper. Thanks
    Last edited by FM; 12-08-2009 at 05:46 PM.

  18. #18
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    I've got a set of m4s and dig 'em. They're more powerful, quieter and no harder to setup than my 765 XTs. As an added bonus they're rebuild-able and dead sexy. I picked mine up for pretty cheap though, and I've never run any of the other 4 pot options. Also, I thought the moto V2 and the Gustav were the uber brakes? Neither is a 4 pot...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I have to agree the old XT 4-pots are the shiz.
    I certainly prefer them over all the brakes mentioned in this thread so far. I've found them hard to beat, although I am very happy with the Avid Elxir R's on my Hardtail so far.

    I have some XT 4-pots for sale as well, with pimpy straitline levers and hope hoses.
    Here's my MTBR ad so I am all legit & proper. Thanks
    what year are those?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    The way I see it right now, if my bike is too heavy, then I'm too weak!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggidy
    Dropadrop, you're dead wrong. The M4s beat Louises in ever way. You can dial them so they bite with almost downhill braking power, or tune them down so they have incredible modulation.
    Maybe you should read what you are replying to. I never complained about their modulation or power. I just said the Louise is as good.

    Also, there are NO brakes out that are intended to be setup with just a pull the lever and forget about it method. You ALWAYS need to centralize the caliper, which really makes me doubt how knowledgeable you are about the subject,
    For a moment you got me thinking I was crazy. So I looked at the installation manual for my Magura brakes which just happened to be on my desk. The instructions say this is the correct method of installing the caliper. Maybe it's just Magura? Nope, I googled on the subject and ALL the instructions I could find (just looked through the first few) advised to install the caliper in this fashion. One of them was the official Hayes installation manual - same thing... Had a look at shimanos site and at least the SLX installation manual instructed to install just like this.

    Which is making me queestion how knowledgeable you are on the subject.

    and if you've ever even owned the M4s.
    And if you have actually ever used any other brakes then the M4's...

    They are a pleasure to work on compared to other brakes. There is also no noise when wet, although if you're a bone head and setup your brakes the lazy way, it's not much surprise they don't perform perfectly.
    Which makes me wonder why I get so many hit's with "noisy hope M4 wet" from google. And why in reality everyone apart from you (including Hope themselves when I have spoken to them over the phone and the local importer) say that they can be rather noisy when wet.

    If you want to bash people at least try to make sure you understand what you are talking about.

  21. #21
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    are the beloved old xt's the ones that had two different sized pistons,i wonder why there's always some product that gets canceled and/or changed and then there's a bunch of people reminising about the good ol.....

  22. #22
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbn
    are the beloved old xt's the ones that had two different sized pistons,i wonder why there's always some product that gets canceled and/or changed and then there's a bunch of people reminising about the good ol.....
    Yes, and they have a better combination of power and modulation than anything else I've tried. The only downsides are the slightly tricky set-up with IS mount, and the weight.

    I believe the reason Shimano discontinued them, was that Grimeca either owned the design or actually made the brakes for shimano, either way their relationship went sour.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Yes, and they have a better combination of power and modulation than anything else I've tried. The only downsides are the slightly tricky set-up with IS mount, and the weight.

    I believe the reason Shimano discontinued them, was that Grimeca either owned the design or actually made the brakes for shimano, either way their relationship went sour.

    I don't know the Saint look like a heavy duty version of them. I think Shimano wanted to go with the lighter weight XTR 2-pot caliper style and that the reason they stop making them. The all of the sudden the figure out that there 2-pot desing was not cutting it for the Saint group.

    I had them when they first came out and love them. But then I got a new bike with all XTR and sold the old bike with them, that was quite a few years ago. Then this year I found brand new calipers on E-bay and put them on my bike and puff I remeber how good they actually are, specially now with 180 rotor in front and Goodridge lines. Now if Shimano could make a slimdown XT version of the Saint.
    If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong.

  24. #24
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    If the power is what you are after then what you need is Hope Tech V2 brakes with vented rotors.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckedrex
    I've got a set of m4s and dig 'em. They're more powerful, quieter and no harder to setup than my 765 XTs. As an added bonus they're rebuild-able and dead sexy. I picked mine up for pretty cheap though, and I've never run any of the other 4 pot options. Also, I thought the moto V2 and the Gustav were the uber brakes? Neither is a 4 pot...
    yeah if you want real power the v2's which arent 4 pot are the way to go.

  26. #26
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    [QUOTE=dropadrop]Maybe you should read what you are replying to. I never complained about their modulation or power. I just said the Louise is as good.




    I've never heard anyone say anything negative about the new Hopes. Let alone compare power and modulation to the Maguras. My only guess is you had a bum set of Hope brakes, The older 4 Pot XT's are quite nice and reliable, however the new M4's have a ton more power, and I also prefer the linear modulation of the Hopes, versus the progressive feel from the Shimanos.

  27. #27
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    I think i have three sets of hopes, a couple sets of really vintage two piston and a set of first gen (bought them when they first made them) four pots and i'm sure they were really good when i got them and i'm uncertain about their problems,leaky levers come to mind, major pain in the a$$ to bleed ,i still don't ever stand my mountianbike upsidedown to work on it, and i know this is a little ocd i picked up while riding hopes. In the mean time(last ten years) i have purple hayes(replaced the hope4's) hayes el camino, hayes strokers and a set of new stroker ace's, all top notch. I have a single hayes master cylinder, that i fixed at some point, but stacks of hope parts,buying new hope brakes would seem like burning money to me,even though they've had plenty of time to fix their old problems i just couldn't ever go back. If i remember correctly one of the hope brakes i had was the one where you can mount a disc brake on a frame with only cantelever bosses, i have their old hubs; biguns and bulbs,fantastic.

  28. #28
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    That's the old closed system brakes you're refering to. The open system, with the Mini lever and later are not known for leaking - the same design had been utilised until 2008 - and can be flipped upside down. The new Tech lever is ambidextrous and can be flipped to be used on either side of the bar.

    It is of course your prerogative to not buy Hopes, but, in my opinion, you're missing out on what are some of the best brake systems on the market because of your considerably outdated perceptions.

    I've owned and extensively used Minis, Mono Minis, Mono M4s, Moto M6s, Tech and Moto V2s and Tech M4s. My partner has Mono Mini/M4 on one bike and Tech X2s on the other. I've had two problems in the last four years: one was a stuck piston in a Moto M6 caliper - Hope replaced the caliper; the second was a split Tech M4 caliper - again, replaced under warranty. I would never hesitate to recommend any open-system Hope brake. Dependable; totally serviceable with all small parts still readily available; great performance; and, of course, rather nice to look at.

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I believe the reason Shimano discontinued them, was that Grimeca either owned the design or actually made the brakes for shimano, either way their relationship went sour.
    Grimeca is bankrupted now :\

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