overheated Formula The One- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    used to be RipRoar
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    overheated Formula The One

    There is a very long steep decent that I occasionally overheat my rear brake on. Front is ok and gets the majority of the braking, so not sure whats up. Im chaulkin it up to rotor size. Front is 203 rear 180. After this happens and brake cools I am able to pump it up again and works fine.

    Should I be changing fluid once this occurr? Im thinking of going 203 rear...

  2. #2
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    What do you mean by overheating? If it's fading you basically have two choices, different pads or larger rotor.

  3. #3
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    Well, Im guessing overheated. Basically lever goes flat, no brakey.

  4. #4
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    That is odd for that brake. Something is amiss.
    I am immune to your disdain.

  5. #5
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    Are you sure you don't simply need to bleed them?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar
    Well, Im guessing overheated. Basically lever goes flat, no brakey.
    By "flat" do you mean it goes all the way to the bars? That sounds like a bleeding situation. If it doesn't have any power that is probably the pads. Are you running sintered pads?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil
    Are you sure you don't simply need to bleed them?
    No Im not sure, I may need too. This is the scenerio.

    Rear brake works great, tons of power, modulates well.

    I approach the long steep section with a few directional changes thrown in. I really just cant let it roll here, im far behind the seat, lots of controlled braking. I try to let it go in sections so im not riding my brake the whole way down. By the end of the section my brakes start making noise (which has been normal for these under heavy sustained braking).

    This last time I made it to the bottom with brake power, but as soon as I let off, then tried to grab some rear brake the lever went to the bars and no power. I am thinking I overheated them so I ride without using them for about 30-60 seconds then I pump the lever several times and they come back to life. They are noisy for the first few braking sections then quiet again with lots of power like nothing happened.

    Ive since ridden several times with tons of power, have not changed a thing. A couple weeks ago I did notice some small amounts of brake fluid buildup behind the cylinder on the bars (rear brake).

    The only other time this has happened is when my lever screw came (front) out and I was forced to complete the ride with rear only. Exact same thing happened.

    I love these brakes but I need to be able to 100% rely on them. So Im thinking a bleed, new pads and a 203mm for the rear. Im no lightweight either...

  8. #8
    Newt Guy
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    The brake needs a bleed. I always do a full fluid change when I bleed as it is just so easy while you are doing it that why not? I run the same brakes on big descents, and I can fade the rear from time to time running a 185. Same situation as you... you just can't let it out all the time with mad corners after steep straights. Some of the rides we have force you to be on the brake almost all the way down. Not much choice... well... death maybe... heh.

    I don't know how you bleed them, but I just made a quick stand with an old rotor, a metal broom stick and a ziptie (ziptie the rotor to the stick for caliper, bend end of stick straight up to mount lever, push fluid back and forth at will.) I make my rear brake easy to remove... as easy as possible anyway. I take the entire thing off and bleed it good, changing the fluid at the same time with the Avid bleed kit. Once you do it a few times it is a 10 minute deal. And soooooo worth it.

    Great brakes The One.
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  9. #9
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    Thanks Frosty...Im going to have to get a bleed kit together. I like the bleed jig idea. Ive always turned my own wrenches so Ill definitely be doing this myself.

  10. #10
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    Sounds like what has been happening is...your vapor locking the system which means...your DOT is over boiling therefore your lever goes to the bar. Once the DOT has cooled back down, you have your brake back. Once this occurs with DOT systems, got to bleed them and get some fresh DOT in there. Once DOT over boils it breaks down and no longer will brake as strong as it should. Yeah bleed it, get a 203 rotor to keep the cooling down. Check your pads, good chance they will be pretty glazed which also isn't helping the braking. A lot of times that is what causes your brakes to be super noisy after hard braking like that...especially if the pads were never embedded properly.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for all the info.

    Any reason why a Hope 203 rotor would NOT work with the Formula The One? I run a Rohloff hub and it seems a 203 is only available in a Hope Specific.

    Like this: http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/MT...eel::8313.html

    updated: Hayes to Hope
    Last edited by TraxFactory; 12-08-2010 at 07:09 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar
    Thanks for all the info.

    Any reason why a Hayes 203 rotor would NOT work with the Formula The One? I run a Rohloff hub and it seems a 203 is only available in a Hayes Specific.

    Like this: http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/MT...eel::8313.html
    That is a Hope rotor so I will assume you were speaking of that and not the Hayes.



    Many people use Hope floating rotors with Shimano and Avid and Formula brakes and they work quite well if the correct adapter is used. The only problem I can really see (with that rotor) is that the size is a bit different that Formula. Hopes are in inches and Formula is metric. a Hope 203 is a Formula 200 so mounts could be problematic... but as you are rollin with the Rohl, I have no clue as I have no experience with the unit.

    I hate to offer concrete advice on mixing and matching rotors to calipers, but If I can mount it and spin it, I will try it... especially on the rear. Sometimes it comes down to some creative filing. Depending on the mount with the Rohl, you might have to file a bit. No biggie really.

    That is all I can offer for whatever the .02 is worth these days!

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  13. #13
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    Ive been poking around Hopes site and everything I find under Specs shows 203mm. Im going to see if I can find one locally and measure it up before I order anything.

    I dont mind doing a little mod on it but I want to be sure the caliper pads get enough bite on the rotor. Thanks for the info!

  14. #14
    MK_
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar
    Ive been poking around Hopes site and everything I find under Specs shows 203mm. Im going to see if I can find one locally and measure it up before I order anything.

    I dont mind doing a little mod on it but I want to be sure the caliper pads get enough bite on the rotor. Thanks for the info!
    I've run Hope floating rotors with my Formula The Ones; I needed to add an extra washer between the 200mm bracket and the caliper to compensate for the slightly larger diameter of the Hope rotor. There is an additional issue with the floating rotors, they're really wide at the base (where the screws mount it to the hub) which may or may not cause interference with the caliper; front was was fine, rear I couldn't get to work 100% reliably. I would advise not going that route.

    As far as your rear brake fade; the bleed suggestion is best. You likely have old fluid back there which has absorbed some water. (DOT fluid is designed to absorb moisture in the brake line) Once you get enough water absorbed in the fluid the boiling temperature is decreased to the point you experience brake fade.

    _MK

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  15. #15
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    Thats good to know. The Rohloff version of this rotor is not floating so I may be able to run it in the rear.

    After digging around and mention of 200mm rotor I found that my front rotor is 200mm and my adapter is 203. I thought it was strange that I didnt have full pad contact. Looks like ill be getting 2 new rotors.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar
    Thats good to know. The Rohloff version of this rotor is not floating so I may be able to run it in the rear.

    After digging around and mention of 200mm rotor I found that my front rotor is 200mm and my adapter is 203. I thought it was strange that I didnt have full pad contact. Looks like ill be getting 2 new rotors.
    Now that certainly can't help with power.
    Check out my SportTracks plugins for some training aid software.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil
    Now that certainly can't help with power.
    No doubt. The front has been pretty amazing running like this. Will be interesting to see the difference, if any.

  18. #18
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    I was looking to order the Formula Bleed Kit. I noticed some kits look like this:



    and other like this:



    One of the bleed fittings appears to have a different size O ring. Is one just an older kit? Ill play it safe and order it from Perigeum Development-Formula USA (second image) most likely but was curious about difference?

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