MT400 to Spyres?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    MT400 to Spyres?

    Bike came with MT400 hydraulic brakes. Rear brake needs longer hose and I don't have tools for handling hydraulics and shop takes $100 for putting on a longer hose.

    Love Spyres and have always been happy with the performance. Have a pair of post mount Spyres in the parts bin and I'm considering a switch. Bike seems to have IS brake mounts.

    Looking at the pictures below, would you say it would be as simple as putting on the Spyres on the current IS tabs and ordering a pair of Shimano Tiagra R550 flat bar brake levers (short pull)?


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MT400 to Spyres?-15743702954201.jpg  

    MT400 to Spyres?-15743702953730.jpg  

    Last edited by mikael_on_wheels; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    don't go backwards, leave hyd on bike. Buy a 6 dollar funnel and a 15 hose kit, and do it yourself, its pretty easy.

  3. #3
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    This is what you would need.
    - straight to straight brake hose(s)
    1,7 m https://www.bike24.com/p2307232.html...ano+SM-BH90-SS
    2,0 m https://www.bike24.com/p2307233.html...ano+SM-BH90-SS
    - 8 mm Park Tool wrench, because it has 5 contact points to screw/unscrew, unlike standard wrenches, that have only 2 contact points and thus can damage the aluminum bolts.
    https://www.bike24.com/p274490.html?q=parktool
    - 2,5 and 4 mm hex wrenches
    - 100 ml mineral oil
    https://www.bike24.com/p2306704.html?q=shimano%20oil
    - bleeding funnel
    https://www.bike24.com/p2248365.html?q=shimano%20bleed
    - 1x bleeding spacer
    (if you were to remove the pads and wheels and pushed caliper pistons back)
    https://www.bike24.com/p2119074.html?q=shimano%20bleed
    - quick bleeding tutorial
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWP6Y-zt-Fk&feature=youtu.be&t=153

    In the right upper corner of the site you can choose your country (Sweden) to see actual prices for your country and delivery price, once you put everything in the cart, to have an idea.

    It's like 65 (with delivery) + a bleed from your side.
    Sure, it's not far from 100 $, but you won't need to pay anyone anymore to do it.
    It's 1 time investment.

    TRP Spyre mechanical brakes are good, yes, but nowhere near hydraulic brakes.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  4. #4
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    This is what you would need.
    - straight to straight brake hose(s)
    1,7 m https://www.bike24.com/p2307232.html...ano+SM-BH90-SS
    2,0 m https://www.bike24.com/p2307233.html...ano+SM-BH90-SS
    - 8 mm Park Tool wrench, because it has 5 contact points to screw/unscrew, unlike standard wrenches, that have only 2 contact points and thus can damage the aluminum bolts.
    https://www.bike24.com/p274490.html?q=parktool
    - 2,5 and 4 mm hex wrenches
    - 100 ml mineral oil
    https://www.bike24.com/p2306704.html?q=shimano%20oil
    - bleeding funnel
    https://www.bike24.com/p2248365.html?q=shimano%20bleed
    - 1x bleeding spacer
    (if you were to remove the pads and wheels and pushed caliper pistons back)
    https://www.bike24.com/p2119074.html?q=shimano%20bleed
    - quick bleeding tutorial
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWP6Y-zt-Fk&feature=youtu.be&t=153

    In the right upper corner of the site you can choose your country (Sweden) to see actual prices for your country and delivery price, once you put everything in the cart, to have an idea.

    It's like 65 (with delivery) + a bleed from your side.
    Sure, it's not far from 100 $, but you won't need to pay anyone anymore to do it.
    It's 1 time investment.

    TRP Spyre mechanical brakes are good, yes, but nowhere near hydraulic brakes.
    That didn't quite answer my question, but it was still quite an awesome answer. Thanks! Coincidentally I have a free shipping from bike24 to redeem. The stars align...

    I have some trouble finding a good video tutorial for removing the old hose and installing a new one. Do I need to get/use the syringe used in this video?

    2000mm hose is out of stock. Current hose is ~1500mm and is too short to turn the handlebar to the right. Hopefully the 1700mm should do...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikael_on_wheels View Post
    Bike came with MT400 hydraulic brakes. Rear brake needs longer hose and I don't have tools for handling hydraulics and shop takes $100 for putting on a longer hose.

    Love Spyres and have always been happy with the performance. Have a pair of post mount Spyres in the parts bin and I'm considering a switch. Bike seems to have IS brake mounts.
    Looks like the hose reaches just fine in your pictures.

    Are you raising the handlebars to ludicrous height? Barriers like this serve the owner well, imo. If you can't get the bike to fit how you want without moving a component several inches... it's TOTALLY the wrong bike. That bike is brand new. Return it and keep shopping. Get a bike that isn't a bodge out of the gate.

    To answer your question- yes, it is that simple. It's common for frames to have IS tabs and PM brakes. It makes sense for the manufacturer because it's usually slightly cheaper, and nice for the end user because all threaded bits are in a 10$ adapter. And cuz setting up IS calipers sucks. Just leave the PM adapters in place. Be advised that poorly cut brake cables won't work properly. You'd be putting on inferior brakes to basically ruin the bike, if my assumptions are correct. Abort.


    This post, negativity and all, is intended to be helpful.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikael_on_wheels View Post
    Do I need to get/use the syringe?
    It will make your life much easier.
    Pulling/pushing to remove bubbles in the caliper and to make your lever firm.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  7. #7
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    For the front, the hose should be long enough to be able to rotate the lever in horizontal position.
    For the rear, if full suspension, you need to sag to the max your rear suspension to make sure you won't cut the hose to short.
    And before cuting, make sure, that the rear brake hose is not rubbing against front brake hose or the frame and that you can turn as much as needed the front end, without tension on the rear brake hose.

    Also if using the syringe, remove the wheel and the pads and insert yellow bleed block instead of them.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    It will make your life much easier.
    Pulling/pushing to remove bubbles in the caliper and to make your lever firm.
    Thanks! Checked the Products compatibility Information PDF and it doesn't list SM-BH90-SS as compatible with BL/BR-MT400. SM-BH59-JK-SS (MTB) is listed as compatible though. SM-BH90-SS that you linked is cheaper though, so I'd rather get that. Should it be OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    For the rear, if full suspension, you need to sag to the max your rear suspension to make sure you won't cut the hose to short.
    And before cuting, make sure, that the rear brake hose is not rubbing against front brake hose or the frame and that you can turn as much as needed the front end, without tension on the rear brake hose.
    Thanks for instructions! This seemed like a good guide too. Bike (Marin Pine Mountain) is rigid, so no sag.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    This post, negativity and all, is intended to be helpful.
    NP, thanks for taking your time!

    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Are you raising the handlebars to ludicrous height?
    CHECK! Velo Orange Cigne stem and On-One Geoff is on.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    If you can't get the bike to fit how you want without moving a component several inches... it's TOTALLY the wrong bike.
    Without mods, it fits the way the manufacturer intended. But some riders have wishes that don't necessarily align with the bike industries ideas of how a certain niche of bikes should ride. Finding a plus tire bike with (close to) sit-up-and-beg geo and proper rack and fenders mounts with a $600 budget is hard. Fit was carefully calculated and before purchase with bikegeocalc. Looks funny? Somewhat! But rides like a plush and upright dream that suits the rider. It's a rigid Marin Pine Mountain BTW. Jones bikes come with plenty of steerer for adjustability. Most other manufacturers are not as wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    To answer your question- yes, it is that simple.
    Ace, thank you! But have decided to give the hydraulics a try. You all seem to insist and Groove_c made it to easy to resist.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    You'd be putting on inferior brakes to basically ruin the bike, if my assumptions are correct. Abort.
    Inferior performance, but still something far better than rim brakes (which arguably works fine) and doesn't require bringing a bleed kit on tour for peace of mind. It will not be used for singletrack.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikael_on_wheels View Post
    (Marin Pine Mountain)
    That bike should play fairly nicely with what you propose. The concern is that you'll make the front end too light and the bike won't track and try to jackknife. Sounds like you know what's up.

    On an unrelated note, those bikes are super cool.

    Good luck with the project!
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikael_on_wheels View Post
    it doesn't list SM-BH90-SS as compatible with BL/BR-MT400. SM-BH59-JK-SS (MTB) is listed as compatible though.
    BH90 is highest end hose Shimano has.
    When pressing hard on levers, it won't expand at all or as much as BH59 does.
    Results in firmer lever feel and more constant performance.
    So it's a bonus to somewhat lower end brakes.

    SM -Shimano
    BH -brake hose
    SS - straight to straight connection (no banjo).
    Otherwise it would have been SB - straight to banjo, instead of SS.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  11. #11
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    The guy in the video is so f*cking stupid to tell to bring the lever blade as close to the bar as possible, to allow master piston to retract to the max for max fluid capacity possible.
    But if you ever wanted to adjust the lever blade further from the bar, it wouldn't have been possible, since the excess of fluid wouldn't have allowed for that - overpressure/overfill.

    One needs to adjust the lever blade as fare as possible from the bar.

    At the end of his "tutorial", he hasn't even set up the lever blade to the position it was before the bleed, since... well.. you know...

    Most of videos/"tutorials" one can find on YouTube, are copies of someone else's videos, with same or even worse faults, since one can't simply copy how to proceed if no understanding of how to proceed properly and why.

    And also using the syringe only to push the fluid from bottom to top is also stupid, since the fluid at the caliper can be not as clean as it is at the lever.
    So you push all the dirt through the whole system.

    I use a syringe with thread and o-ring at the lever, instead of funnel, to push fresh fluid from top to bottom, with caliper bleed port open, to remove dirty fluid and the bubbles in the caliper, since when you push manually, it's faster and removes more bubbles than just gravity bleed with funnel.

    Then I remove the syringe from the top, I close the lever bleed port.

    I connect a syringe to the caliper bleed port and I pull on it slowly, to remove the rest of the bubbles at the caliper.
    I don't push, only pull!
    Then I close the caliper bleed port.

    I reconnect the syringe to the lever bleed port.
    I then push on it, to add some fluid, since some of it was lost when pulling at the caliper.
    I then pull on it as well, to remove the rest of the bubbles at the lever.
    And I finally push on it again, before removing it, for the lever blade to be firm as f*ck.

    You can try pressing on the lever when syringe pulled a little bit at the lever and when you have pushed it, to see how firm/hard the lever blade will be.
    To simulate the difference between gravity bleed with funnel vs. pushing with a syringe.
    The difference is obvious )))

    No overfill/overpressure, since when I unscrew the syringe from the lever, excess/under pressure fluid will come out of the lever port and I simply wipe it off.

    Overfill/overpressure can happen only if you push on the syringe at caliper, with lever port closed and without releasing the pressure, you then close the bleed port of the caliper.

    Pure gravity bleed is very time consuming and not 100% bubbles-free.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M2l...youtu.be&t=392

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    The guy in the video is so f*cking stupid to tell to bring the lever blade as close to the bar as possible, to allow master piston to retract to the max for max fluid capacity possible.
    But if you ever wanted to adjust the lever blade further from the bar, it wouldn't have been possible, since the excess of fluid wouldn't have allowed for that - overpressure/overfill.

    One needs to adjust the lever blade as fare as possible from the bar.

    At the end of his "tutorial", he hasn't even set up the lever blade to the position it was before the bleed, since... well.. you know...

    Most of videos/"tutorials" one can find on YouTube, are copies of someone else's videos, with same or even worse faults, since one can't simply copy how to proceed if no understanding of how to proceed properly and why.

    And also using the syringe only to push the fluid from bottom to top is also stupid, since the fluid at the caliper can be not as clean as it is at the lever.
    So you push all the dirt through the whole system.

    I use a syringe with thread and o-ring at the lever, instead of funnel, to push fresh fluid from top to bottom, with caliper bleed port open, to remove dirty fluid and the bubbles in the caliper, since when you push manually, it's faster and removes more bubbles than just gravity bleed with funnel.

    Then I remove the syringe from the top, I close the lever bleed port.

    I connect a syringe to the caliper bleed port and I pull on it slowly, to remove the rest of the bubbles at the caliper.
    I don't push, only pull!
    Then I close the caliper bleed port.

    I reconnect the syringe to the lever bleed port.
    I then push on it, to add some fluid, since some of it was lost when pulling at the caliper.
    I then pull on it as well, to remove the rest of the bubbles at the lever.
    And I finally push on it again, before removing it, for the lever blade to be firm as f*ck.

    You can try pressing on the lever when syringe pulled a little bit at the lever and when you have pushed it, to see how firm/hard the lever blade will be.
    To simulate the difference between gravity bleed with funnel vs. pushing with a syringe.
    The difference is obvious )))

    No overfill/overpressure, since when I unscrew the syringe from the lever, excess/under pressure fluid will come out of the lever port and I simply wipe it off.

    Overfill/overpressure can happen only if you push on the syringe at caliper, with lever port closed and without releasing the pressure, you then close the bleed port of the caliper.

    Pure gravity bleed is very time consuming and not 100% bubbles-free.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M2l...youtu.be&t=392
    Is this the process you'd do for a freshly installed hose too? Bike has barely been ridden. Should be no problem bleeding the mineral oil to a jar and reusing (together with some extra oil) with the longer hose, right?

  13. #13
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    If the oil is still pink and with no visible "garbage"/particles in it, no need to throw it away.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9020) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

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