Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145

    Hayes Soles - Adjustment Help Please

    My front brake seems not as good as the rear. I have to pull the front brake lever closer to the bar (about half way) compared to the rear lever for the discs to start working..

    I know there are two allen bolts to adjust - I did this to stop the pads rubbing when I first got the bike but it didn't seem to make any difference to the above issue. Is there any other adjustments that I can try? And just wondering the allen bolt on the right hand side, which way should I turn it to get the pad closer to the disc? It didn't seem to make much difference either way.

    Thanks from a disc virgin!
    energetix



  2. #2
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    Better watch the signature there! Im not familar with the Sole caliper but i found the link, looks simple. The lever adjustment, there is a small allen screw going through the lever bushing, you want to turn it in to where it is about flush with the bushing. This screw has a habbit of backing out sometimes if it does go to the LBS & have them back the screw out & add a drop of blue LockTite to the threads then screw it back in.

    http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/pdf/SO...WebEnglish.pdf
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
    Slow Patrol
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    438
    I had So1e brakes briefly. You do use the allen sockets to adjust the left and right pad gaps. I had to do this as the pads wore down. You pad gaps will get bigger as the pads wear and thus your lever throw will increase. Also, as dogonfr posted, the lever adjustment might unwind itself. One of mine did this while the other stayed put. I just put a little blue locktight on the threads.

  4. #4
    Too Kool for Skool
    Reputation: theg1ant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    321
    Be carefull with the pad adjusters that have the so1e logo on them. i have lost one of them and the other is loose. check the "armpit" of the lever. there should be a 2 mm allan screw that adjusts the lever extension
    Quote Originally Posted by coma13
    it's short but it's pretty.... just like a guatemalan hooker...

  5. #5
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Thanks guys - and yes I know the sigature was a bit of a bad call hey!

    I tried the allen screw that's at the lever / housuing junction, it didn't really have any effectr at all.

    I'm going to try the pad adjustment again. I think I need to get the right pad to sit closer to the rotor, so I will try that & hopefully it will work.
    energetix



  6. #6
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Ok just tried the adjuster - now the right pad which is the fixed one is as far in as it can go - which I reckon is the problem, if it could go a bit closer it would probably be like the rear brake.

    I know you can center otehr brakes by loosening it at the mount - it didn't say anything about this in the Sole's manual - so is it applicable to the soles as well? I'm guessing not due to the fact that one pad is fixed.

    Any other ideas? Otherwise I guess I'll have to ride it out untill the first service and see what the bike shop reckons - hopefully they won't just brush the issue off!
    energetix



  7. #7
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    On the Hayes link i left it says on E to adjust the inside pad with a 5mm allen, see bellow Hayes instructions.

    Using a 5mm Allen wrench, position the fixed inner pad adjuster flush with the caliper body leaving a .015" - .020" (.38 - .50mm)
    gap between the fixed inner pad and the disc.
    Warning: Be sure the inner brake pad is adjusted so the pad material is extending past the caliper wall. Adjusting the inner pad too
    far counter clockwise will cause the disc to hit the caliper wall resulting in brake failure

  8. #8
    Slow Patrol
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by energetix
    I know you can center otehr brakes by loosening it at the mount - it didn't say anything about this in the Sole's manual - so is it applicable to the soles as well? I'm guessing not due to the fact that one pad is fixed.
    Yes, now that you mention it I remember doing this, on the front. I hit the limit on the piston adjuster range so I moved the caliper so that I had available adjustment range on both sides. It all depends on who setup the bike. Ideally you want the caliper setup/centered with equal adjustment range on both sides. The front has some wiggle room side to side in a post mount setup, which is what mine was. The rear or any IS setup, front or rear, is adjusted left/right with spacer washers.

  9. #9
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Yep that's the one I did, it's all the way clockwise (ie the pad is as far past the caliper wall as it can be) and still have 2 to 3 times that the left pad has - so as a result when the brakes are applied the rotor is pushed slightly by the left pad towards the right pad. First time I observed this I got worried that the rotor may get bent, but pretty quicly realized that it shouldn't. If I adjust the left pad any further in then it will rub.

    That's why I'm now tending to think it would be good if I could re-centre the whole housing but not sure that is applicable in the case of the soles.

    Maybe I just got a shoddy brake?
    energetix



  10. #10
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Well the other thoght is the wheel allignment when locked in by the quck release, but that doesn't seem to change - unless a tiny spacer was put in or something - which I don't really fancy the idea of.
    energetix



  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    84
    Energetix: not sure what fork you have on your Trance, but I have so1es on my Giant -- been using them about 1 1/2 years. Here's the thing: first, don't worry about the rotor 'bending' -- these are single-piston brakes, that's how they work! -- only one pad (the outside one) moves, and pushes the rotor into the fixed (inner) pad; both (as you've found) are easily adjustable. Next, two things: sight down the rotor from above: is it (roughly) centred in the caliper slot (forget 'between the pads' for now)? If not, then check to see how your caliper is mounted to the fork: is it bolted onto the fork mount from the side (International Standard), with spacer washers between the mount and the caliper, or does it look more like it's bolted 'into' the mount, with bolts parallel to the caliper body (Hayes-style post mount). If the former, have your bike shop 'centre' the caliper body by changing the shim washers; if the latter, by loosening the bolts and re-centring. Either way, once centred you'll find it MUCH easier to set up the brake 'Bite point' by adjusting both pads for the distance you want -- it's really simple once you get the hang of it. Also, the lever reach adjuster in the lever should have a noticeable effect; get this checked as well. These brakes are 'low end', but once set up they work very well, and are very easy to adjust/keep in adjustment. Hope this helps.

  12. #12
    Slow Patrol
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by energetix
    Yep that's the one I did, it's all the way clockwise (ie the pad is as far past the caliper wall as it can be) and still have 2 to 3 times that the left pad has - so as a result when the brakes are applied the rotor is pushed slightly by the left pad towards the right pad. First time I observed this I got worried that the rotor may get bent, but pretty quicly realized that it shouldn't. If I adjust the left pad any further in then it will rub.
    The So1e are single piston fixed caliper brakes and the rotor must flex when brakes are applied. The So1e rotors are thinner than the "normal" Hayes brake rotors so they can flex properly.

  13. #13
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Pretty sure it's the international type mount - bolts straight onto the fork. There doesn't appear to be any shim washers present at all. Yes to me it appears that it needs to be centered like you say. I'll talk to the LBS about it when I go in for the service.
    I'm definitely not knocking the brakes, the rear works perfectly and I can see that adjustment is pretty simple. Once I get the front working just as good as the back I'll be as happy as a pig in mud

    Here are some pics - the alignment is kind of hard to show though.



    energetix



  14. #14
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    When you put the wheel back on is the bike upside down? Did the brake work fine when you first picked it up?

  15. #15
    CPK- Crazy Poway Kid
    Reputation: defenestrator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    48
    In response to the first topic about the screw in the bushing coming loose... Same happened to me and I got tired of tightening the 2 mm allen screw after every ride so I emailed Hayes and they sent out 2 new bushings free. The difference between the new and the old was that the new bushings have a rubber core that the screw goes through so that they stick in place. FYI the email is hayestech@hbpsi.com Any questions pm or post em...

  16. #16
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    I didn't acutally ride it at the shop, had to take the wheel off to get it home. The bike wasn't upside down when I put the wheel on. I noticed the problem that time.
    Last time when I got back from the airport I'm pretty sure that time I did have the bike upside down when I put the wheel in, still same though.

    Does it make any difference? Which is the better way to put the wheel on?

    About that screw - we are talking about the allen bolt on the black bit of the brakes aren't we and not the rubber/plastic looking thing on the silver lever part?

    Thanks for the tip defenstrator
    energetix



  17. #17
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    You should tighten the skewer when the tires are on the ground, upside down the wheel can be cocked off a little so it is not centered. I tend to wiggle the wheel just to make shure its straight then tighten, front or rear.
    You do have a IS mount. Let me track down XSL_WiLL & get him over here, he's my hero when ever i get in trouble. I know when am i not in trouble!!!

  18. #18
    CPK- Crazy Poway Kid
    Reputation: defenestrator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by energetix
    ...About that screw - we are talking about the allen bolt on the black bit of the brakes aren't we and not the rubber/plastic looking thing on the silver lever part?...
    Not sure I get the question or if it is directed at me but the screw I was talking about is the one on the inside of the lever near the hinge going through the bushing (round metal thing going through the lever) and is shown in a picture above posted by dogonfr.

  19. #19
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    I'll receap - it may help.
    The brake works, and bites nicely but I have to pull the lever in alot more than the rear brake one to get it to bite. If it was any worse it would come very close to the handle bar.
    Where the brake lever meets the housing there is a allen bolt. I have tried adjusting this for the "reach" or whatever it's meant to do, but it seems to do nothing except spin around - in both directions - it doesn't tighten at all, and I'm guessing it's not meant to anyway. I think the rear brake is the same in that regard.
    I've tried adjusting the pads in - the inside pat (fixed one) is in as far as it can go & still shows a decent gap - which is not equal on both sides of the caliper. If I adjust the outer pad any further in then it will rub.
    It is an IS mount, there don't appear to be any shims or spacers.

    So I reckon it has to do with the rotor centering - my thought is that that's just about guaranteed to be the cause of the problem. The only other thing that I could think of is that the brakes aren't blead properly - but I reckon that's the less likely problem.

    I don't want anyone to loose sleep over it please, just thought there may have been a simple solution that I could fix myself. Otherwise I'll ask the LBS when I take it in for the first service.
    energetix



  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    You should tighten the skewer when the tires are on the ground, upside down the wheel can be cocked off a little so it is not centered. I tend to wiggle the wheel just to make shure its straight then tighten, front or rear.
    You do have a IS mount. Let me track down XSL_WiLL & get him over here, he's my hero when ever i get in trouble. I know when am i not in trouble!!!
    Yep -- +1 on that -- make sure (or have your lbs make sure) that the wheel is straight in the drop outs and that the quick release is done up at about the right 'tightness'. To see the effect this has, just hold your bike on the ground, release the q.r. then do it back up -- you'll see the position of the rotor change in the caliper side-to-side. But assuming the front wheel is correctly centred when properly installed (with the q.r. done up) then your pictures clearly show the rotor off-centre to the outside, meaning the caliper (ideally) should be re-shimmed (you have I.S. mount) using slightly thinner shims, to move it out in relation to the rotor. This is exactly the problem I had; I could adjust the pads to get it to work, like you by adjusting the inner pad way out, and pulling the outer pad back, but it's NOT the best solution; once I had the caliper centred properly, 'balancing' the brake operation was much easier, simply because the full range of adjustment on both pads is then available. Oh, and don't let lbs tell you 'nothing we can do; already has the thinnest shim'; if so (my experience again), all they have to do is 'face' the brake mount (good idea anyway), removing a bit of material, accomplishing the same thing -- a simple, cheap, quick operation. Good luck -- should work out!

  21. #21
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    The fork needs to be cut so the caliper fits the fork better allowing the inside pad to rest closer to the disk. It took me a turkey burger to figure this out.

  22. #22
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    17,508
    As mentioned before, you'll need your brake mounts "cut" or faced so the caliper can be spaced further outboard, this will allow the inboard pad (static or fixed pad) to be closer to the rotor. This will also result in better allignment overall. Then the dynamic piston should automatically adjust and everything will be great. Worse comes to worse, the system may be low on fluid and it'll need to be bled/topped off.

  23. #23
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Bugger! Does this sort of thing happen often? And if I got the brake mount's cut or faced then that could pose problems if I ever changed to different brakes?
    energetix



  24. #24
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    As mentioned before, you'll need your brake mounts "cut" or faced so the caliper can be spaced further outboard, this will allow the inboard pad (static or fixed pad) to be closer to the rotor. This will also result in better allignment overall. Then the dynamic piston should automatically adjust and everything will be great. Worse comes to worse, the system may be low on fluid and it'll need to be bled/topped off.
    Now you show up after i figured it out, neanerneaner. How am i going to addopt you when your late

  25. #25
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Quote Originally Posted by defenestrator
    Not sure I get the question or if it is directed at me but the screw I was talking about is the one on the inside of the lever near the hinge going through the bushing (round metal thing going through the lever) and is shown in a picture above posted by dogonfr.
    I definitely had the wrong screw - yes that screw does work in adjusting the lever reach, but doesn't fix the problem.

    If I didn't want to grind/ cut anythin would getting a different type of brake on the front likely solve the problem?
    energetix



  26. #26
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    17,508
    It will not make future setup more difficult, facing tabs is fairly common for removing imperfections in those tabs.

    IS mounts are a pain to deal with because of the facing/spacing issue. Post Mount calipers with IS adapters are so much easier to adjust and modify.

    The main reason you're having problems is because each of the manufacturers produced their part ot a certain extreme of the international standard, and it's giving you problems now. For instance, the fork manufacturer may have moved the tabs a littler closer in, the hub manufacturer may have moved the disc mounts a little out, and Hayes might have made their caliper spacing to some extreme of the IS

  27. #27
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    17,508
    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Now you show up after i figured it out, neanerneaner. How am i going to addopt you when your late
    I've been in the freezing cold rain and wind at Six Flags for school! 3 hour bus ride, 1.5 hours before they closed for wind advisory. 2 rides, 20 dollar meal, 55 dollar admission, and a half inch thick packet of calculations and measurements. What a rip.

    Besides, it seemed like you had it under control.

  28. #28
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Thanks for all your help everyone. I will have to see what the lbs says, I let you all know how it goes.
    energetix



  29. #29
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    Quote Originally Posted by energetix
    Bugger! Does this sort of thing happen often? And if I got the brake mount's cut or faced then that could pose problems if I ever changed to different brakes?
    Dont worry when you upgrade the brakes the caliper can be shimed if needed, you will be fine!!

  30. #30
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    I've been in the freezing cold rain and wind at Six Flags for school! 3 hour bus ride, 1.5 hours before they closed for wind advisory. 2 rides, 20 dollar meal, 55 dollar admission, and a half inch thick packet of calculations and measurements. What a rip.

    Besides, it seemed like you had it under control.
    My 18 yr old wines when i tell him to beat feet & it's only 1 mile 1 way. Tell mom i'll trade with her. Only calculations & measurements i do is the 12oz., no wise cracks either.

  31. #31
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    17,508
    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    My 18 yr old wines when i tell him to beat feet & it's only 1 mile 1 way. Tell mom i'll trade with her. Only calculations & measurements i do is the 12oz., no wise cracks either.
    Cool. 2 miles each way to school. You might get your son back a little more Asian looking though...

  32. #32
    ride hard take risks
    Reputation: dogonfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25,412
    Quote Originally Posted by XSL_WiLL
    Cool. 2 miles each way to school. You might get your son back a little more Asian looking though...
    No prob you'll be a little more bean. I was talking permanent no part time stuff. Out here in Nor Cal you would go nutz with all the riding!!

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.