Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

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  2. #2
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    Does this have anything to do with the blurred brakes in the instagram photo from March?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg2GQp9l2uQ/

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobba View Post
    Does this have anything to do with the blurred brakes in the instagram photo from March?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg2GQp9l2uQ/
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  4. #4
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    Interested. What can you compare them to?

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Interested. What can you compare them to?

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    I can compare them to Saint and XT. With the stock pads they are similar power for the same lever squeeze.

    With the metallic pads fitted they scare people who normally ride Saint and XT.
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  6. #6
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    Sounds fantastic, everything I want in a brake. As with everything though the judgement shall wait until it's reliability is known.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Sounds fantastic, everything I want in a brake. As with everything though the judgement shall wait until it's reliability is known.
    Lifetime leak proof warranty:
    http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/support/

    My original hayes mags (2000) are still working. The rear has slow fluid loss somewhere. Probably should replace the hose.
    I regularly ride my 2006 HFX Nine (split clamp version). In 12 years I haven't actually bled the back brake. The front has had new pads twice and rotor change once. It was bled with those pad changes.
    I've been on Hayes Prime Feb 2015 to Dec 2017 and they've been rock solid with no maintenance in 3 years. Still in use.
    But they don't have the power or lever feel the Dominion has.
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  8. #8
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    The key think for me in regards to disc brakes are 1) how easy are they to set up; 2) how trouble free are they; 3) how easy are they do simple maintenance on; 4) and how much do they cost?

    XT brakes are cheap, are ridiculously easy to set up, are trouble free and dead easy to do simple maintenance on.

    From the review, it looks like 1 looks to be a good. Will need to see how 2 -4 play out. The cross-hair feature seems fantastic.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The key think for me in regards to disc brakes are 1) how easy are they to set up; 2) how trouble free are they; 3) how easy are they do simple maintenance on; 4) and how much do they cost?

    XT brakes are cheap, are ridiculously easy to set up, are trouble free and dead easy to do simple maintenance on.
    All those boxes are ticked. Except the performance is even better. Especially at the extreme end as DOT fluid doesn't gas out when it gets hot. So they don't need regular bleeding.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc3LcT0l...raftsuspension

    *edit*
    RRP on the Dominion is $US230 per end plus rotors/adapters. The new rotor is $US50.
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  10. #10
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    Looking to replace my formulas for a new build and soon. Anybody know how much the sintered pads will cost? And when are they available?
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  11. #11
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    The grub screws on the caliper is pretty trick.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Looking to replace my formulas for a new build and soon. Anybody know how much the sintered pads will cost? And when are they available?
    They come with two sets of pads. Semi-metallic and sintered metallic. The semi-metallic is on par with the best brakes out there. The sintered metallic will scare most riders.

    I'll should have shipping info when everyone gets back from Eurobike.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    The grub screws on the caliper is pretty trick.
    Yes, it's not guesswork, but it is a nuisance aligning the caliper. Honestly the main trouble comes from untrue rotors, but I'm glad to see the grub screws anyway.

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  14. #14
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    One thing I don't understand:

    On Shimano brakes the reservoir sits on top of the piston cylinder. In practice that means that if there is any air in the system it will find its way up into the reservoir and the brake will work perfectly.

    On this new brake the reservoir is underneath the cylinder. With the cylinder the highest part of the system, any air will stay there and you've got mushy brakes.

    Am I missing something here as it seems like a fairly big oversight?

  15. #15
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    Based on the cutaway view and the shape of some dials/levers, these look pretty similar to some '07 Code's I have. I'm slowly in the process of rebuilding them, but they were phenomenal brakes and will be used for a long time.

    I'm very excited to try these Dominions!!! My old trek 8500LT (2000 era) had the Hayes brakes on them, and they rocked it for 8 years with some serious neglect. Shame I wasn't as into cycling when they finally stopped working, those 22mm mount calipers are frequently asked for now.
    Silly bike things happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    One thing I don't understand:

    On Shimano brakes the reservoir sits on top of the piston cylinder. In practice that means that if there is any air in the system it will find its way up into the reservoir and the brake will work perfectly.

    On this new brake the reservoir is underneath the cylinder. With the cylinder the highest part of the system, any air will stay there and you've got mushy brakes.

    Am I missing something here as it seems like a fairly big oversight?
    They did say they can be flipped to work on either side 🤔

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    They did say they can be flipped to work on either side 樂
    That might be why they've designed it that way. By making the lever symmetrical the end user can put them on either side and Hayes cut costs by not having to make left and right levers!

    Shimano levers are less elegant looking than many, due to that lump of a reservoir sitting on top of the lever, but they have reasons for it and it contributes to the ease of use and reliability of the brakes. In use, the brakes will 'self-bleed' and are very tolerant of air in the system. You can run the brakes with air in them for years and no experience any ill effects. Contrast that with Avid brakes, which had a tiny reservoir and were a total pain.

    On these new Hayes brakes the highest point in the system is here, were I've put the arrow, exactly were you do not want it. Sure, you can flip the levers but I'd rather have a brake that can tolerate an imperfect bleed and still function.

    Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-p4pb16077149.jpg

    Like I said, maybe I'm missing something? I'm happy to be corrected but to be it seems to me like they've sacrificed reliability to save money and make a nicer looking lever.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    That might be why they've designed it that way. By making the lever symmetrical the end user can put them on either side and Hayes cut costs by not having to make left and right levers!

    Shimano levers are less elegant looking than many, due to that lump of a reservoir sitting on top of the lever, but they have reasons for it and it contributes to the ease of use and reliability of the brakes. In use, the brakes will 'self-bleed' and are very tolerant of air in the system. You can run the brakes with air in them for years and no experience any ill effects. Contrast that with Avid brakes, which had a tiny reservoir and were a total pain.

    On these new Hayes brakes the highest point in the system is here, were I've put the arrow, exactly were you do not want it. Sure, you can flip the levers but I'd rather have a brake that can tolerate an imperfect bleed and still function.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Like I said, maybe I'm missing something? I'm happy to be corrected but to be it seems to me like they've sacrificed reliability to save money and make a nicer looking lever.
    I think you're over thinking this. If any company knows about disc brakes, it's Hayes. I think they invented the mountain bike disc brake. It's a cutaway that's shown also, so maybe some part of reservoir is still at the high point.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    I think you're over thinking this.
    Possibly. Like I said, I be happy to hear my thoughts contradicted but I certainty wouldn't assume that because they've made brakes for a while they make the best ones. Look at SRAM/Avid!

  20. #20
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    I really hope these will be nice. Based on what I have read so far, they do look promising and a good fit for me.

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  21. #21
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    Why suddenly the resurgence of DOT fluids instead of mineral oil? Weren't their last iteration (RADAR I think) using the mineral oil?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Why suddenly the resurgence of DOT fluids instead of mineral oil? Weren't their last iteration (RADAR I think) using the mineral oil?
    I don't understand that either. I think it may be safety related. People might think you can use any mineral oil in their brakes and buy stuff that is not safe. Any DOT brake fluid will be safe.

  23. #23
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    Hope these new hayes sintered pads are under $25-35 a pop...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I don't understand that either. I think it may be safety related. People might think you can use any mineral oil in their brakes and buy stuff that is not safe. Any DOT brake fluid will be safe.
    Surface area..these are almost double compared to say a formula sintered pad..going to get HAF with an over 200lb rider, that's my guess, think the 5.1 is the silicone bases fluid iirc more heat resistant?
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Surface area..these are almost double compared to say a formula sintered pad..going to get HAF with an over 200lb rider, that's my guess, think the 5.1 is the silicone bases fluid iirc more heat resistant?
    Exotic dot5.1 does get into very high boiling points. Way higher than mineral or even dot4. I'm not sure if that's even an issue with mtb brakes though...

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  25. #25
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    I've never used 5.1 on MTB..

    5.1 is not compatible w/ the other fluids Mr Pig (least I'm pretty sure)..think you're correct on the other DOT fluids being able to get along/mix iirc

    *edit*
    You're correct. I was thinking of the silicone version that is not compatible w/ the other DOT fluids
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Exotic dot5.1 does get into very high boiling points. Way higher than mineral or even dot4. I'm not sure if that's even an issue with mtb brakes though...
    I think these Hayes brakes are DOT4 compatible?

    Shimano mineral oil brakes are clearly capable of dealing with the heat, although the special rotors ect suggest it is more borderline than they might admit! My point is that you can buy 'mineral oil' that is not suitable for use in brakes. I've seen guys come on here and ask for cheaper alternatives to Shimano mineral oil. Mental I know but some muppet somewhere has probably put cooking oil or something into his Shimano brakes!

    If you go into an auto parts store and buy DOT4 it will be fine. Even the cheaper brands have to meet standards that ensure it is safe so you cannot buy the wrong DOT4.

    Also, if DOT fluid does have higher heat resistance it makes designing the brakes easier. Shimano engineer their brakes to put more heat into the rotor, they put fins on the pads etc. They clearly have to be careful about how the brake manages the heat. If you use a fluid that can take more heat you don't need to bother with that. Not as much anyway.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I think these Hayes brakes are DOT4 compatible?.
    Thought I read they were 5.1..nevermind what I said then, was thinking of the incompatible silicone version
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    The grub screws on the caliper is pretty trick.
    Hayes have used them since about 2012 and have them patented. While they're fantastic for fine tuning the initial setup. The real time saver is removing and refitting. For example for fork maintenance.

    The brake goes back on exactly as it came off and alignment is preserved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    One thing I don't understand:

    On Shimano brakes the reservoir sits on top of the piston cylinder. In practice that means that if there is any air in the system it will find its way up into the reservoir and the brake will work perfectly.

    On this new brake the reservoir is underneath the cylinder. With the cylinder the highest part of the system, any air will stay there and you've got mushy brakes.

    Am I missing something here as it seems like a fairly big oversight?
    Hayes have made flippable levers since the late 90's. It makes sense on every level from rental fleets (customers from LHD vs RHD countries) to selling new brakes pre-bled across the planet to design, manufacture and stocking of parts. There is one lever assembly.

    I've been riding them since 2000. Never had an issue with air getting in.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Why suddenly the resurgence of DOT fluids instead of mineral oil? Weren't their last iteration (RADAR I think) using the mineral oil?
    Mineral oil is fine in low performance applications. But get it hot and it releases gas. This is why open bath DH forks have air bleed buttons and it's why mineral oil brakes which get hot need bled all the time.

    Hayes are now doing mineral oil in their Radar brake. It's a great brake, but has exactly the same limitation as other mineral oil brakes. Get them too hot and they go mushy as the fluid releases gas. A rebleed fixes it. Until next time.

    DOT fluid brakes used on exactly the same rides stay rock solid. Which is why DOT is used for automotive.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Exotic dot5.1 does get into very high boiling points. Way higher than mineral or even dot4. I'm not sure if that's even an issue with mtb brakes though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    5.1 is not compatible w/ the other fluids Mr Pig (least I'm pretty sure)..think you're correct on the other DOT fluids being able to get along/mix iirc
    DOT 5.1 isn't technically it's own classification. It's a name used by some manufacturers for their Super DOT4 fluids. It's the highest performing bracket. But some manufacturers will have DOT4 fluids comparable with other manufacturers DOT 5.1

    DOT 5 Silicone is the only odd one out.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Thought I read they were 5.1
    Not sure but I thought I read they can use either.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Not sure but I thought I read they can use either.
    Dot 4, DOT 5.1. Same same.
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  31. #31
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    They look real nice, but at the price point they are at ($5-600 for a set), that's pretty steep.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    They look real nice, but at the price point they are at ($5-600 for a set), that's pretty steep.
    I say the same while looking at carbon bikes!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    They look real nice, but at the price point they are at ($5-600 for a set), that's pretty steep.
    Made in America. It's like buying Hope stuff here in the UK, you're not just buying the product, there is a certain pride of ownership attached too.

    Sometimes it's nice just to have something that's different. You know, when all the guys on the trail have Shimano and the guys walking bikes to the car-park have SRAM ;0)

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Made in America. It's like buying Hope stuff here in the UK, you're not just buying the product, there is a certain pride of ownership attached too.

    Sometimes it's nice just to have something that's different. You know, when all the guys on the trail have Shimano and the guys walking bikes to the car-park have SRAM ;0)
    Really, made in America? I actually did not know that but that does change my view of the price point. Thanks for pointing that out!
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Really, made in America?
    Actually, you'd better check that. Maybe they're just an American company but the brakes are made elsewhere. I could be wrong on that.

  36. #36
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    Is that a proper seal on the push rod to keep crud out of the master cylinder?

  37. #37
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    Bump. Anyone have these yet? Universal Cycles has them in stock, $220ea and they have 15% off, comes out to ~$375 for a set.

    I've been waiting for a while to dump my XTs, I'm so tired of the pumping and the rear getting squishy all the time. I don't like how cheap the levers feel either.

    Formula Curas had my eye for a while, and they're cheaper... but I really like the design of these Hayes and the reviews so far are fantastic. They're sooo ugly though :P

  38. #38
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    I respect Hayes and I imagine these brakes will do well. At that pricepoint, for me, Iím buying Hope.
    Last edited by Blatant; 07-24-2018 at 01:34 PM.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Actually, you'd better check that. Maybe they're just an American company but the brakes are made elsewhere. I could be wrong on that.
    Considering there's a HAYES BICYCLE GROUP ASIA based in Taiwan...I'd say it's a safe bet on the made elsewhere.


    Are there any other Hayes brakes that are still available new that are worth looking at as a Guide RS replacement? I'm not willing or able to spend nearly $400 on brakes right now. I'm generally happy with my Guides but getting them setup is a absolute PITA....so much I'm thinking about replacing them. When they are adjusted they work well though so it's a shame they suck to dial in. I've honestly never paid any attention to Hayes brakes in the past so I don't know the first thing about the brand or line up.
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  40. #40
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    Im 215lb, and I liked my hayes strokers. With 8 inch rotors, they had plenty of power. Mine we're 08's, and in that 10 years they got one fluid change after 7 years. I finally retired them last week.

    Im on shimanos now. Id gladly go back to hayes. Id look at primes, which were the stroker replacement/improvement.

  41. #41
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    Do Tektro make anything special? Don't laugh but I've never seen any problems on Tektro hydro brakes.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Im 215lb, and I liked my hayes strokers. With 8 inch rotors, they had plenty of power. Mine we're 08's, and in that 10 years they got one fluid change after 7 years. I finally retired them last week.

    Im on shimanos now. Id gladly go back to hayes. Id look at primes, which were the stroker replacement/improvement.
    I'll check them out. $200 for front and rear...that's just first place I looked. Probably other deals out there. I'd guess I could get at least half that out of the Guides.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Considering there's a HAYES BICYCLE GROUP ASIA based in Taiwan...I'd say it's a safe bet on the made elsewhere.


    Are there any other Hayes brakes that are still available new that are worth looking at as a Guide RS replacement? I'm not willing or able to spend nearly $400 on brakes right now. I'm generally happy with my Guides but getting them setup is a absolute PITA....so much I'm thinking about replacing them. When they are adjusted they work well though so it's a shame they suck to dial in. I've honestly never paid any attention to Hayes brakes in the past so I don't know the first thing about the brand or line up.
    Hayes have dropped all their other hydraulics, this Dominion is it. There are still a few Radar (mineral oil) and Pryme (DOT fluid) brakes available but they're out of production.

    Hayes still do the mechanical brakes too. A big cyclocross thing apparently. But I've never done that.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Do Tektro make anything special? Don't laugh but I've never seen any problems on Tektro hydro brakes.
    TRP is Tectro's big boy brakes.

  45. #45
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    I am considering to get these brakes.
    My main concern now is the longer lever and 1 finver braking. I hope they will work with sram shifter and bikeyoke lever fot wise.
    Will I need the Hayes adapters as well?
    Planning to get the rear and front 180mm D rotors as well
    I am on older xtrs now.


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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Mineral oil is fine in low performance applications. But get it hot and it releases gas. This is why open bath DH forks have air bleed buttons and it's why mineral oil brakes which get hot need bled all the time.

    Hayes are now doing mineral oil in their Radar brake. It's a great brake, but has exactly the same limitation as other mineral oil brakes. Get them too hot and they go mushy as the fluid releases gas. A rebleed fixes it. Until next time.

    DOT fluid brakes used on exactly the same rides stay rock solid. Which is why DOT is used for automotive.
    not sure what you mean by gassing out, but the boiling point of mineral oil (at least shimano type) is higher than DOT, especially after DOT got water in.
    see boiling point table half way down

    The lack of performance under heat is not based on fluid limit due to gas bubbles, but due to lower friction factor of hor brake pads and rotors. Obviously wet DOT fluid could degrade brakes before the pads do. but assuming your fluid isn't boiling, brakes lose power due to less friction when hot. You could have cable brakes (if you have really strong hands!) and experience fading due to heat.

    There was a recent thread of people using some sort of drugstore mineral oil, obviously that won't work well at all. but if you use shimano produced fluid it will withstand heat, beyond what most pads and rotors can.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    not sure what you mean by gassing out, but the boiling point of mineral oil (at least shimano type) is higher than DOT, especially after DOT got water in.
    see boiling point table half way down
    Boiling point is not the issue. If you boil your brake fluid, you're having an extremely bad time.
    Mineral oils produce gas at much lower temperatures. At atmospheric pressure and temperature a mineral oil contains about 8% air by volume. The mineral oil releases gas when heated and does not reabsorb all of it when it cools.

    That is why suspension forks have air bleed valves. They produce gas internally as the oil heats and works which builds up pressure. Enough pressure and they not only impact performance, but they can blow seals.
    Even vacuum degassing the oil does not stop more gas being produced. It reduces the problem, but does not stop it.

    There are no brands of mineral oil brake immune to these fluid gassing problems. If you want to step into synthetic fluids then that's a completely different subject. Take a look at mineral oil brakes and you will see the effort they go to to keep fluid temps low. Including insulating pistons, rotors which conduct heat better and even cooling fins on pads.

    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    The lack of performance under heat is not based on fluid limit due to gas bubbles, but due to lower friction factor of hor brake pads and rotors. Obviously wet DOT fluid could degrade brakes before the pads do. but assuming your fluid isn't boiling, brakes lose power due to less friction when hot. You could have cable brakes (if you have really strong hands!) and experience fading due to heat.

    There was a recent thread of people using some sort of drugstore mineral oil, obviously that won't work well at all. but if you use shimano produced fluid it will withstand heat, beyond what most pads and rotors can.
    Pad fade is a completely separate issue. Pad fade doesn't require your brakes to be rebled afterwards to get a firm lever.

    All mineral oils have this problem. Regardless of brand. Which is one of the reasons why DOT fluids exist.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I am considering to get these brakes.
    My main concern now is the longer lever and 1 finver braking. I hope they will work with sram shifter and bikeyoke lever fot wise.
    Will I need the Hayes adapters as well?
    Planning to get the rear and front 180mm D rotors as well
    I am on older xtrs now.


    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    Hayes have Peacemaker clamps coming to fit with Shimano I Spec and SRAM Matchmaker shifters. What is your concern with lever length?

    Shimano adapters sometimes don't have enough clearance for other brand calipers.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Hayes have Peacemaker clamps coming to fit with Shimano I Spec and SRAM Matchmaker shifters. What is your concern with lever length?

    Shimano adapters sometimes don't have enough clearance for other brand calipers.
    The length.
    Since the lever seems to be longer than xtr/xt one, my concern is the sgifter would be pushed too far inward on the bars.
    The matchmaker could work, but the positioning is also limited.
    I remember not liking sram brake/shifter combo on some demo bike due to not being able to get them exactly where I wanted them.

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    The length.
    Since the lever seems to be longer than xtr/xt one, my concern is the sgifter would be pushed too far inward on the bars.
    The matchmaker could work, but the positioning is also limited.
    I remember not liking sram brake/shifter combo on some demo bike due to not being able to get them exactly where I wanted them.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    The lever is 80mm from pivot to end. It's a completely normal sized brake.
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  51. #51
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    Get a chance to see how much the sintered replacement pads cost yet?
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Get a chance to see how much the sintered replacement pads cost yet?
    RRP is $US30 per set.

    Same price for T106 semi-metallic and T100 metallic.

    For those interested. HFX Mag pads are still available. $US21 per set.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The lever is 80mm from pivot to end. It's a completely normal sized brake.
    80mm might be too long.
    Shimano is 70mm. The adapter might work here.



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  54. #54
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    I'm becoming more interested after reading about it on PB.

  55. #55
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    Could they tear me away from Saints?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    80mm might be too long.
    Shimano is 70mm. The adapter might work here.



    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    You haven't measured from the pivot. It's the shiney pin that looks about 75-80mm on your ruler.

    I measured SRAM guides and some other Shimanos I have lying around. Lever pivot to end of blade.
    SRAM was 81mm, Shimano 77mm.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Do Tektro make anything special? Don't laugh but I've never seen any problems on Tektro hydro brakes.
    Reviews I've read say they lack power.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    Bump. Anyone have these yet?

    I had a prototype set 2 years ago that blew me away with both power and lever feel. Then I got a preproduction set a year ago that was just as good, but more refined.

    Still on that preprod set now. Best brakes I've ever used.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I had a prototype set 2 years ago that blew me away with both power and lever feel. Then I got a preproduction set a year ago that was just as good, but more refined.

    Still on that preprod set now. Best brakes I've ever used.
    Thanks, nice to talk to someone who's ridden them. I like a really powerful brake, XTs are close, but the build quality is trash now, they feel so cheap, and I'm done with the pumping up crap.

    I'll probably buy the Hayes soon. Wish they weren't so ugly though :P

  60. #60
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    Would like to hear some real world ride reports between Saint, the new Cura 4 pistons, and these new Hayes. Based on how good the OG Cura's are, I'd wager their new 4 piston calipers will be the brake to beat. The Hayes do look like they put a lot of thought and engineering into them.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    RRP is $US30 per set.

    Same price for T106 semi-metallic and T100 metallic.

    For those interested. HFX Mag pads are still available. $US21 per set.
    Thanks, think that's inline considering the size..long as the actual pad material thickness isn't rediculous thin.

    Installed lever reach adj. on my the one's and they snapped/sh!t the bed..went back to the hex adj. and they're just fine but my trigger finger feels like it's time for an upgrade.
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Would like to hear some real world ride reports between Saint, the new Cura 4 pistons, and these new Hayes. Based on how good the OG Cura's are, I'd wager their new 4 piston calipers will be the brake to beat. The Hayes do look like they put a lot of thought and engineering into them.
    Same, though I never really wanted to switch to mineral oil so I have yet to try the new formulas..(shemano is the ugly duck, looks wise imo)
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Would like to hear some real world ride reports between Saint, the new Cura 4 pistons, and these new Hayes. Based on how good the OG Cura's are, I'd wager their new 4 piston calipers will be the brake to beat. The Hayes do look like they put a lot of thought and engineering into them.
    I've ridden these back to back with Saint: Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.- Mtbr.com

    I don't know anyone who rides Formula brakes.
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  64. #64
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    There handlebar photo somewhere w/ lever adjusted full in?

    Thing I am remembering now w/ my FR lever, had to bend the thing w/ c-clamps because the throw started waay too far from the bar..the starting angle was kicked way out

    Can these dominion a4 levers be adjusted so the end of throw is almost bottoming on the handle bars? w/ the lever adjusted all the way in, where is the lever starting, parallel to the bars? I am a picky sob w/brake levers, some have a wacked out reach
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Thing I am remembering now w/ my FR lever, had to bend the thing w/ c-clamps because the throw started waay too far from the bar..the starting angle was kicked way out

    Can these dominion a4 levers be adjusted so the end of throw is almost bottoming on the handle bars? w/ the lever adjusted all the way in, where is the lever starting, parallel to the bars? I am a picky sob w/brake levers, some have a wacked out reach
    Reach is adjustable with the big dial. Bite point is factory set, but you can screw with it if you feel the need.

    I've got big hands and fat grips. But winding the reach all the way in on my prototypes the lever starts to bite about 5-8mm from the grip. It comes out to about parallel.
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Reach is adjustable with the big dial. Bite point is factory set, but you can screw with it if you feel the need.

    I've got big hands and fat grips. But winding the reach all the way in on my prototypes the lever starts to bite about 5-8mm from the grip. It comes out to about parallel.
    How long is the stroke to the bite point set by the factory?
    I am looking for a brake with the shortest one possible. I own shimano xtr.

    Also, do you know if hayes adapters are needed or can i use shimanos?
    180mm rotor rear/front. Post mount.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    How long is the stroke to the bite point set by the factory?
    I am looking for a brake with the shortest one possible. I own shimano xtr.

    Also, do you know if hayes adapters are needed or can i use shimanos?
    180mm rotor rear/front. Post mount.
    Iirc each pad/side in the caliper can be hex adjusted closer, that's gonna make for a nice short as possible adjustment
    video=youtube;][/video]...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I had a prototype set 2 years ago that blew me away with both power and lever feel. Then I got a preproduction set a year ago that was just as good, but more refined.

    Still on that preprod set now. Best brakes I've ever used.
    Do you know if the levers work well adjusted close to the bar? Or are they out of cam like shimono? I had to bend my M8000.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Do you know if the levers work well adjusted close to the bar? Or are they out of cam like shimono? I had to bend my M8000.
    The reach adjustment does not move the cam on M8000

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    Want!

    Subscribed!

  71. #71
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    Do the Dominion brakes have a variable ratio lever like Shimano Servowave and the Hayes Prime do?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    How long is the stroke to the bite point set by the factory?
    I am looking for a brake with the shortest one possible. I own shimano xtr.

    Also, do you know if hayes adapters are needed or can i use shimanos?
    180mm rotor rear/front. Post mount.
    You're going to have to find a set of these to see if they fit your specific needs.

    Shimano adapters often don't have the depth to clear the calipers on other brand brakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Iirc each pad/side in the caliper can be hex adjusted closer, that's gonna make for a nice short as possible adjustment
    Eh? The only brakes adjustable in that way are the old Hope C2's and mechanical brakes. There is no individual piston adjustment on any self-adjusting hydraulic brake.

    The cross-hair alignment is for setting the whole caliper on the adapter so it aligns with the rotor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Do you know if the levers work well adjusted close to the bar? Or are they out of cam like shimono? I had to bend my M8000.
    The cam motion stays set and the lever adjustment moves the blade in relation to the cam. So motion ratios are the same for wound right in to wound right out.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Do the Dominion brakes have a variable ratio lever like Shimano Servowave and the Hayes Prime do?
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean there. Every brake lever has a motion ratio that moves as the brake is stroked. See above regarding the motion ratio of the cam being set independent of lever position.
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I can compare them to Saint and XT. With the stock pads they are similar power for the same lever squeeze.

    With the metallic pads fitted they scare people who normally ride Saint and XT.
    Do you have any time on Hope Tech 3 E4 or V4?
    I am trying to decide between these and Dominion.

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  74. #74
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    Ive not ran the Dominion (yet) but would purchase these over a Hope brake any day of the week. I went from Hope to Magura and will never go back to Hope (and I love their stuff, just not their brakes). Im itching to try these Dominions and compare to the Magura MT7's which have been the best brakes I have ridden to date.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Do you have any time on Hope Tech 3 E4 or V4?
    I am trying to decide between these and Dominion.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    I have not. I don't ride with anyone running a recent Hope brake.
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  76. #76
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    You're going to have to find a set of these to see if they fit your specific needs.

    Shimano adapters often don't have the depth to clear the calipers on other brand brakes.



    Eh? The only brakes adjustable in that way are the old Hope C2's and mechanical brakes. There is no individual piston adjustment on any self-adjusting hydraulic brake.

    The cross-hair alignment is for setting the whole caliper on the adapter so it aligns with the rotor.



    The cam motion stays set and the lever adjustment moves the blade in relation to the cam. So motion ratios are the same for wound right in to wound right out.



    I'm not sure exactly what you mean there. Every brake lever has a motion ratio that moves as the brake is stroked. See above regarding the motion ratio of the cam being set independent of lever position.
    Since it uses a cam to actuate the piston, I assume it's variable leverage.

    The description for the Prime says "Leverage increases throughout the stroke, for better modulation and higher power at the end."

    I want linear brakes. More predictable and controllable. I'll just stick with my Stroker Trails, although they are a bit underpowered. I also don't want high maintenance four piston calipers (i.e., more problems with sticky pistons).

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Eh? The only brakes adjustable in that way are the old Hope C2's and mechanical brakes. There is no individual piston adjustment on any self-adjusting hydraulic brake.

    The cross-hair alignment is for setting the whole caliper on the adapter so it aligns with the rotor.
    Wishfull thinking on my part, due to "used hydro brakes lazy piston seal syndrome"..i must've been tired when I read the article on this new setup
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Since it uses a cam to actuate the piston, I assume it's variable leverage.

    The description for the Prime says "Leverage increases throughout the stroke, for better modulation and higher power at the end."

    I want linear brakes. More predictable and controllable. I'll just stick with my Stroker Trails, although they are a bit underpowered. I also don't want high maintenance four piston calipers (i.e., more problems with sticky pistons).
    You are missing out...

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I have not. I don't ride with anyone running a recent Hope brake.
    One more question.
    Do I need the Hayes bleed kit?
    Any special fotting I would need to bleed these?

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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Since it uses a cam to actuate the piston, I assume it's variable leverage.

    The description for the Prime says "Leverage increases throughout the stroke, for better modulation and higher power at the end."

    I want linear brakes. More predictable and controllable. I'll just stick with my Stroker Trails, although they are a bit underpowered. I also don't want high maintenance four piston calipers (i.e., more problems with sticky pistons).
    Because all brakes use a pivot to drive a sliding master cyilnder, they all have variable rates. It's how they all work. It's not possible to draw conclusions about control from a simple description.

    Sticky pistons is a design problem affecting certain brands/models, it's not related to the number of pistons.

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    One more question.
    Do I need the Hayes bleed kit?
    Any special fotting I would need to bleed these?

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    They use the same M5 bleed ports as other brakes. The only difference is you want to use DOT 5.1 fluid to maintain the high temp performance.

    Remember not to use a mineral oil brake bleed kit. It might be tempting but you do not want to start mixing those fluids in the same bleed tools.
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  81. #81
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    For those interested in these brakes... I thought it would be beneficial to point out that ďSilicone based dot 5 is very different than Glycol based Dot 5.1Ē

    Absolutely do not mix them!

    Also note: Do not get glycol based Dot 4 or Dot 5.1 spilled on important stuff and left without washing... the stuff is like acid, it will even eat powdercoat!

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    For those interested in these brakes... I thought it would be beneficial to point out that ďSilicone based dot 5 is very different than Glycol based Dot 5.1Ē

    Absolutely do not mix them!

    Also note: Do not get glycol based Dot 4 or Dot 5.1 spilled on important stuff and left without washing... the stuff is like acid, it will even eat powdercoat!
    This is one of the main problems with DOT fluid period. It is corrosive and thus was causing issues with the external items when left uncleaned (hence why most brake bleeding instructions had you immediately clean the area and anything that may have been possibly touched with rubbing alcohol). However, I do believe that DOT 5 is supposed to be a "stronger" version of the DOT fluids.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    This is one of the main problems with DOT fluid period. It is corrosive and thus was causing issues with the external items when left uncleaned (hence why most brake bleeding instructions had you immediately clean the area and anything that may have been possibly touched with rubbing alcohol). However, I do believe that DOT 5 is supposed to be a "stronger" version of the DOT fluids.
    Water is the best way to clean up DOT fluid. It's hydrophillic so it absorbs and washes away very well.
    It's not corrosive like acid. It's just a solvent to certain plastics. Like powdercoat.

    Luckily DOT 5 silicone is rare so very few people will make the mistake of using it.
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    Just ordered my set of Dominions. Looking forward to consistent, great feel and modulation braking.

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    First ride with the Dominion A4s. Anyone looking for a brake upgrade and considering Hope, Magura etc. needs to add the Dominion from Hayes to their list. Got my first ride in with them today and they do exactly what the reviews claim. Read the reviews and then buy these brakes if you are riding Trail, AM, Enduro etc. I will update with more testing and time on them to ensure they stay consistent. I found my riding was faster today on my home trails because I am now able to feather the brakes more than I could with well tuned SRAM Guides. And they are quiet as claimed.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Do you know if the levers work well adjusted close to the bar? Or are they out of cam like shimono? I had to bend my M8000.

    For me they do.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailhwk17 View Post
    First ride with the Dominion A4s. Anyone looking for a brake upgrade and considering Hope, Magura etc. needs to add the Dominion from Hayes to their list. Got my first ride in with them today and they do exactly what the reviews claim. Read the reviews and then buy these brakes if you are riding Trail, AM, Enduro etc. I will update with more testing and time on them to ensure they stay consistent. I found my riding was faster today on my home trails because I am now able to feather the brakes more than I could with well tuned SRAM Guides. And they are quiet as claimed.
    How easy were they to set up/install?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    How easy were they to set up/install?
    Not that hard or different than any other brakes.
    I had to cut both lines. That's a 5min job.
    I bled them before I mounted them and did the 3 way bleed on both.
    Lever to 1st caliper bleed port
    Lever to 2nd
    1st Caliper bleed port to 2nd
    The adjustment pads to rotor is super easy and fast.

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  89. #89
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    New question here. One finger?

    What are you guys over 200lbs noticing about the lever pull after getting used to it, beefie return spring or does it feel lighter on extended runs??
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    For those interested in these brakes... I thought it would be beneficial to point out that ďSilicone based dot 5 is very different than Glycol based Dot 5.1Ē

    Absolutely do not mix them!

    Also note: Do not get glycol based Dot 4 or Dot 5.1 spilled on important stuff and left without washing... the stuff is like acid, it will even eat powdercoat!
    Welcome to 1999.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Mineral oil is fine in low performance applications. But get it hot and it releases gas. This is why open bath DH forks have air bleed buttons and it's why mineral oil brakes which get hot need bled all the time.

    Hayes are now doing mineral oil in their Radar brake. It's a great brake, but has exactly the same limitation as other mineral oil brakes. Get them too hot and they go mushy as the fluid releases gas. A rebleed fixes it. Until next time.

    DOT fluid brakes used on exactly the same rides stay rock solid. Which is why DOT is used for automotive.
    .
    You are a fantastic representative and salesman, but facts are here showing your serious bias.

    Mineral oil brakes do not need frequent bleeding and do not turn mushy after just a few rides. The boling point of Shimano oil is 280 degrees Celcius, Dot 4.0 tops at 230 5.1 is somewhere near Shimano oil (275).

    DOT Brake Fluid vs. Mineral Oil - and the Winner is.. | Epic Bleed Solutions

    The Hayes brakes are beautiful, but that does not create advantages which simply are not there. The difference between Mineral and DOT certainly is not in the performance as you suggest, courtesy of independent testing (there are more articles that go into this at length, temperature is not a major difference).

    And about automotive, well, stopping a Car and stopping a bike are mechanically similar, but the amount of force involved is rather different. You would not want a car brake on your bike, now would you?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    What are you guys over 200lbs noticing about the lever pull after getting used to it, beefie return spring or does it feel lighter on extended runs??
    This has me intrigued. Similar to the guides heat issue?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prickly geezer View Post
    You are a fantastic representative and salesman, but facts are here showing your serious bias.

    Mineral oil brakes do not need frequent bleeding and do not turn mushy after just a few rides. The boling point of Shimano oil is 280 degrees Celcius, Dot 4.0 tops at 230 5.1 is somewhere near Shimano oil (275).

    DOT Brake Fluid vs. Mineral Oil - and the Winner is.. | Epic Bleed Solutions

    The Hayes brakes are beautiful, but that does not create advantages which simply are not there. The difference between Mineral and DOT certainly is not in the performance as you suggest, courtesy of independent testing (there are more articles that go into this at length, temperature is not a major difference).

    And about automotive, well, stopping a Car and stopping a bike are mechanically similar, but the amount of force involved is rather different. You would not want a car brake on your bike, now would you?

    I will let him answer but I don't think he was saying that. From his post ""Boiling point is not the issue. If you boil your brake fluid, you're having an extremely bad time. Mineral oils produce gas at much lower temperatures. At atmospheric pressure and temperature a mineral oil contains about 8% air by volume. The mineral oil releases gas when heated and does not reabsorb all of it when it cools."

    I got the impression that he is implying that heating releases the gas from the oil leading to air in the system that can't be re-absorbed by the oil.

    Don't know what is true or not. I personally have used my XT brakes for almost 4 years and have only bled them once.
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  94. #94
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    I have only 2 rides on the Dominion so far.
    Having a problem with my rear.
    I am getting the wandering point of engagement. It happend on my first ride on a shorter but steep and twisty trail, which requires a lot of constant braking.
    My old xtrs used to do it, but only on this particular trail.

    So, I did the bleeding again, the full 3 way bleed and don't think there was much air left, if any. The bleeding was done with the caliper unmounted from the bike.
    Using Motul 5.1.

    Anyway, I just rode 5 steep DHs today, hoping I fixed the problem, but nope. Every single run after a minute or so, the lever stiffend up and the point of engagement moved further away from the bars. It also felt like I had to press it harder,...
    When I let go of the brake for 5sec or more they returned back to normal, but eventually stiffened up again...

    I will try to cut the hose again and do the full bleed, will also call Hayes on monday.



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  95. #95
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    Rode my new Dominions on a short ride this am. Very impressed so far.

    You end up forgetting they are there. Smooth. Linear response. Low effort vs braking power. Very small dead stroke. But not grabby.

    Reach adjustment has finer gradient than others I've tried so that's good if you're finicky about lever position.

    I'm running the sintered pads and there's a tiny chirp from the front with light apply. I may try the semi-metallic pads to see the difference. May just do a re-align procedure first.

    In any case, these are by far the best feeling brakes I've had.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    ... Smooth. Linear response. Low effort vs braking power. Very small dead stroke. But not grabby.

    In any case, these are by far the best feeling brakes I've had.
    I like the sound of this..hope more will chime in..


    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    This has me intrigued. Similar to the guides heat issue?
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I have only 2 rides on the Dominion so far.
    Having a problem with my rear.
    I am getting the wandering point of engagement. It happend on my first ride on a shorter but steep and twisty trail, which requires a lot of constant braking.
    My old xtrs used to do it, but only on this particular trail.

    So, I did the bleeding again, the full 3 way bleed and don't think there was much air left, if any. The bleeding was done with the caliper unmounted from the bike.
    Using Motul 5.1.

    Anyway, I just rode 5 steep DHs today, hoping I fixed the problem, but nope. Every single run after a minute or so, the lever stiffend up and the point of engagement moved further away from the bars. It also felt like I had to press it harder,...
    When I let go of the brake for 5sec or more they returned back to normal, but eventually stiffened up again...

    I will try to cut the hose again and do the full bleed, will also call Hayes on monday.



    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    I don't have these yet, but that sounds more like either over filled, air in system or both..I'd try resetting pistons and bleed + dbl check alignment w/pads out and make sure pistons are extend/retracting at same pace and not bending rotor..hope you get it sorted, keep us posted
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prickly geezer View Post
    You are a fantastic representative and salesman, but facts are here showing your serious bias.

    Mineral oil brakes do not need frequent bleeding and do not turn mushy after just a few rides. The boling point of Shimano oil is 280 degrees Celcius, Dot 4.0 tops at 230 5.1 is somewhere near Shimano oil (275).

    DOT Brake Fluid vs. Mineral Oil - and the Winner is.. | Epic Bleed Solutions

    The Hayes brakes are beautiful, but that does not create advantages which simply are not there. The difference between Mineral and DOT certainly is not in the performance as you suggest, courtesy of independent testing (there are more articles that go into this at length, temperature is not a major difference).

    And about automotive, well, stopping a Car and stopping a bike are mechanically similar, but the amount of force involved is rather different. You would not want a car brake on your bike, now would you?
    Boiling is not the issue. The issue is the air dissolved in mineral oils (~8% by volume) which gets released as the fluid heats. I've already address it in post 47 above. Here it is copied in below again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Boiling point is not the issue. If you boil your brake fluid, you're having an extremely bad time.
    Mineral oils produce gas at much lower temperatures. At atmospheric pressure and temperature a mineral oil contains about 8% air by volume. The mineral oil releases gas when heated and does not reabsorb all of it when it cools.

    That is why suspension forks have air bleed valves. They produce gas internally as the oil heats and works which builds up pressure. Enough pressure and they not only impact performance, but they can blow seals.
    Even vacuum degassing the oil does not stop more gas being produced. It reduces the problem, but does not stop it.

    There are no brands of mineral oil brake immune to these fluid gassing problems. If you want to step into synthetic fluids then that's a completely different subject. Take a look at mineral oil brakes and you will see the effort they go to to keep fluid temps low. Including insulating pistons, rotors which conduct heat better and even cooling fins on pads.


    Pad fade is a completely separate issue. Pad fade doesn't require your brakes to be rebled afterwards to get a firm lever.

    All mineral oils have this problem. Regardless of brand. Which is one of the reasons why DOT fluids exist.
    You claim bias. But it has nothing to do with brand. The Hayes Radar (mineral oil) brakes suffer the same problem when used intensively.

    My bike brakes get hotter than my car brakes.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I have only 2 rides on the Dominion so far.
    Having a problem with my rear.
    I am getting the wandering point of engagement. It happend on my first ride on a shorter but steep and twisty trail, which requires a lot of constant braking.
    My old xtrs used to do it, but only on this particular trail.

    So, I did the bleeding again, the full 3 way bleed and don't think there was much air left, if any. The bleeding was done with the caliper unmounted from the bike.
    Using Motul 5.1.

    Anyway, I just rode 5 steep DHs today, hoping I fixed the problem, but nope. Every single run after a minute or so, the lever stiffend up and the point of engagement moved further away from the bars. It also felt like I had to press it harder,...
    When I let go of the brake for 5sec or more they returned back to normal, but eventually stiffened up again...

    I will try to cut the hose again and do the full bleed, will also call Hayes on monday.



    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

    Sounds like the brake reservoir is overfilled with fluid, so there is nowhere for the extra fluid volume to go as it heats and expands.

    Crack the bleed screw and push the pads back. This will squirt out about the right amount of fluid for the reservoir to work correctly.

    Let us know how you get on.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Sounds like the brake reservoir is overfilled with fluid, so there is nowhere for the extra fluid volume to go as it heats and expands.

    Crack the bleed screw and push the pads back. This will squirt out about the right amount of fluid for the reservoir to work correctly.

    Let us know how you get on.
    Thanks.
    I have just done it, but the pads where almost all the way in to start with. There wasnt much of a caliper sticking out, so could push them in only a little bit. Nothing came out of the lever bleed port...

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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Thanks.
    I have just done it, but the pads where almost all the way in to start with. There wasnt much of a caliper sticking out, so could push them in only a little bit. Nothing came out of the lever bleed port...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    So going back to your earlier description of the problem. Are you holding the brake on constantly or are you releasing the lever so it can reset?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  101. #101
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    Did a longer ride today on the Dom A4s.... I've never felt a more consistent brake. Ever.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


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    Will get some more time on the Dominions tomorrow. Need to bleed the front brake. Had to have it shortened to install and didnít bleed it but have a little play compared to the back on bite point. Other than that the first 3 hour test ride was amazing.

  103. #103
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    I installed a set of Dominion A4s yesterday, coming from SRAM Guide RSC. Initial impressions follow. I have not gotten them onto the trail yet - and it's rainy here so maybe late this week, best case.

    The Dominion caliper is huge. It's significantly larger and heavier than the Guide caliper. However, after cutting hoses, I found that the Dominion caliper, hose and lever system is only about 17 grams heavier than the Guide RSC I was replacing. I didn't weigh the cylinder & levers separately, but it seems obvious that Hayes is making back some of the weight in the cylinder and lever assembly.

    I'm using Galfer rotors. Used them on motos a lot of years and have used them a few times before for MTB. SRAM rotors seem to always be untrue regardless of whom I bought them from - Jenson, Amazon, LBS. The Galfers came from Jenson true, and they are cheap and light. Almost 30g per rotor lighter than the same size (180mm) SRAM centerline.

    Installation was relatively easy. I have a little issue with the rear brake mount. I had been using an old Magura QM10 IS-to-post 180mm rotor adapter for a long, long time. I had Magura MT4 brakes multiple bikes ago and the adapter fit, so I was using it. It will not clear the Dominion caliper when the washers are properly installed on top of the IS mount. I had a Shimano 180mm mount and it was not even close to working. I'll be ordering either Hayes or the new Magura mount today (MT7 is pretty huge also. I am fairly confident Magura would clear, and I don't know about Hayes' older offerings.)

    The lever is certainly low effort, and it has a wide range of usable travel. If you want Shimano style 50% braking in your face as soon as the lever engages, this brake does not do that. In fact it seems designed specifically to be the opposite of that. You'll need to ride and retrain your brain to use the Dominion brake lever properly.

    I also don't think my pads are fully bedded yet. I don't have any hills in my neighborhood so I have to pedal up to speed then brake hard.

    I did think it's interesting that they come with both semi-metallic and sintered metal pads. In mine the semi-metallic were preinstalled and sintered in a bag. Yet no bleed block. No problem for me - I found that a Magura bleed block worked great.

    Someone asked if it works well when adjusted close to the bar. I have long fingers (XL or XXL glove), so I'd never ride that way but I tried it out of curiosity. It seemed to me that if you adjusted the lever fairly close to the bar the long travel of the lever could result in pulling the lever all the way to the bar. Adjusted fairly far out for my fingers, I still can pull the lever considerably farther than any other MTB brake I can recall using.

    I was pretty meticulous about the bleeding process, having them off the bike, and always drew air from the highest point. It could be, though, that I need to bleed them again and this will reduce lever travel. There is unquestionably a huge amount of modulation but someone coming from a Shimano on/off style brake will have a big learning curve and they might honestly dislike what they're feeling. I rode Magura a lot of years and liked the modulation, but the power sucked until they came out with the MT5 & 7 four piston brakes. I loved my SRAM Guide RSCs when they were new, but I'm over those damn plastic pistons and ordered the aluminum ones from eBay. I noted from the service manual that the Dominion has an aluminum piston.

  104. #104
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    Pics.

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  105. #105
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    One more. Huge.

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  106. #106
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    Pics with sintered but I'm riding them with the semi-met right now.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Pics with sintered but I'm riding them with the semi-met right now.
    Interesting, yours have white lettering? Mine are black. And I see you have a post mount 180 rear brake so you didn't need an adapter.

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  108. #108
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    No idea why the lettering would be different. Yes post mount rear sized for 180 rotor on the HT LT.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  109. #109
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    Dominion A4 Caliper Lettering Color

    [QUOTE=LCW;13787180]No idea why the lettering would be different.

    Mine are black lettering also. I wonder if Marketing at Hayes Brakes realized it is very hard to see the brake name and changed to white to get the new brake recognized easier

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailhwk17 View Post
    Will get some more time on the Dominions tomorrow. Need to bleed the front brake. Had to have it shortened to install and didnít bleed it but have a little play compared to the back on bite point. Other than that the first 3 hour test ride was amazing.
    Put another 3 hours of time on them today. Now that I bled both lines the are engaging almost right at initial pull and smooth all the way to as much stopping power as you want. I didnít even have to do the three way bleed since if you are careful shortening the lines there is just a little bit of air up in the lever.

  111. #111
    LCW
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    Rode mine again today. These brakes are so amazing I can't recommend them enough!

    Demo'ed some 2019 Santa Cruz's yesterday and they had Guides. Better than my XT M8000's but still garbage in comparison to the Dominions!

    Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  112. #112
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    I've now done about 12 hours of rides on my Dominions, but it's all not much elevation change and thus not much sustained braking. I'll get a chance at some decent descents over the next month but nothing like lift serviced bike parks for a while.

    I love the modulation. With a perfect bleed the lever engages fast with the lever reach fairly far extended.

    Oh yeah; the Hayes rear brake adapter works great. It didn't look anything like the pic on universal cycles, but it clears the caliper easily.

    I have zero braking noise with the Galfer rotors and semi metallic hayes pads.

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  113. #113
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    I've got Stroker Trails on my bike. I'm not happy with the braking power so I'm going to try larger rotors. If that doesn't work, will the Dominions work with these rotors and adapters (Hayes L and V series rotors)?

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    I've got Stroker Trails on my bike. I'm not happy with the braking power so I'm going to try larger rotors. If that doesn't work, will the Dominions work with these rotors and adapters (Hayes L and V series rotors)?
    Yes all the rotors and adapters are interchangable.

    I'd go for the new D series. Then they'll match your new brakes when you upgrade.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  115. #115
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    OK where are people buying these? Keen to get a set

  116. #116
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    Unversal cycles had them
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Unversal cycles had them
    That's where I got mine, but "keen" makes me wonder if this is a European purchase. I didn't check CRC or bike-discount.de

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  118. #118
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    I'm Australian. The listed Hayes distributor doesn't even have any of their stuff.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    I'm Australian. The listed Hayes distributor doesn't even have any of their stuff.
    Australia has been a black hole for a while now. We've been covering all warranty and tech support from NZ. We can ship to Australia and should have our first Dominions for sale within a week.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Australia has been a black hole for a while now. We've been covering all warranty and tech support from NZ. We can ship to Australia and should have our first Dominions for sale within a week.
    That will be awesome if I could order a set through you from NZ. If it's possible to pre-order just send me a PM. Otherwise I'll check out the link in your signature and keep and eye out for them.

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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Iím a Clyde (260) looking for something that will hold up to the heat. Guides didnít quite cut it, XTRís seemed like a flimsy cheap brake, currently on Saints and love the stopping power but burnt some SRAM rotors. Put on ice tech rotors and the pads would rub after hard braking sessions until the fluid cooled down is my guess.
    Are these Dominions the ticket? Iím running 203/180 which is as big as my frame will take.

  122. #122
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    Hey Dougal. I'm close to pulling the trigger on a set of these, but I'm wondering if you can answer something. In the Hayes bleed/hose shortening videos they use a 1-piece compression bushing/barb, but the Dominion bleed kits look like they include a bunch of single compression bushings and maybe 1 barb?

    Can you clarify what the brakes actually require and if the bleed kit or brakes come with extras for a hose shortening? Thanks dude

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Iím a Clyde (260) looking for something that will hold up to the heat. Guides didnít quite cut it, XTRís seemed like a flimsy cheap brake, currently on Saints and love the stopping power but burnt some SRAM rotors. Put on ice tech rotors and the pads would rub after hard braking sessions until the fluid cooled down is my guess.
    Are these Dominions the ticket? Iím running 203/180 which is as big as my frame will take.
    In a huge Hayes fan in general, but just being real, you're not going to do much better than 203 ice techs and saints. That's about as much heat control as bike brakes get.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    Hey Dougal. I'm close to pulling the trigger on a set of these, but I'm wondering if you can answer something. In the Hayes bleed/hose shortening videos they use a 1-piece compression bushing/barb, but the Dominion bleed kits look like they include a bunch of single compression bushings and maybe 1 barb?

    Can you clarify what the brakes actually require and if the bleed kit or brakes come with extras for a hose shortening? Thanks dude
    Short answer is I don't know. I haven't had to cut the hoses on my own set.

    The DOT 4 bleed kit I have has the olives without barb: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/pro-ble...uid-hayes.html
    DOT 5.1 bleed kit hasn't arrived yet, but I'm expecting the same kit with different fluid.

    I've emailed the question and will post up the answer.
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  125. #125
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    The two I have could be dinged, but has anybody else had a problem w/warped 203 shemano rotors, or is it just me?


    Edit* They're the less fuggly mk rotors (like in LCW's pic above), not trying to put the rotors down, but they are a real pain to get straight (enough) again
    Last edited by Deerhill; 09-16-2018 at 08:21 PM.
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  126. #126
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    I don't know what's in a Hayes bleed kit - I just used the same kit as I used for my sram guide - because they're both dot, but what you get with the Dominion brakes (per assembly) is:

    Lever and cylinder
    Hose
    One hose barb and olive
    Semi metallic pads installed
    Sintered metal pads in a bag

    Also, my brakes are probably early production because they have black lettering. Newer have white.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I don't know what's in a Hayes bleed kit - I just used the same kit as I used for my sram guide - because they're both dot, but what you get with the Dominion brakes (per assembly) is:

    Lever and cylinder
    Hose
    One hose barb and olive
    Semi metallic pads installed
    Sintered metal pads in a bag

    Also, my brakes are probably early production because they have black lettering. Newer have white.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    That's handy they ship withetallic pads also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    Hey Dougal. I'm close to pulling the trigger on a set of these, but I'm wondering if you can answer something. In the Hayes bleed/hose shortening videos they use a 1-piece compression bushing/barb, but the Dominion bleed kits look like they include a bunch of single compression bushings and maybe 1 barb?

    Can you clarify what the brakes actually require and if the bleed kit or brakes come with extras for a hose shortening? Thanks dude
    Got word back from Hayes.

    These use the same barbed hose fittings as all Hayes in recent memory do. There's a full bleed and service guide here: http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/wp-con...LEED-GUIDE.pdf

    The olives in the bleed kit are to securely retain the clear hose on the syringe fittings. You can see these fitted in the same bleed guide above.

    As ColinL said, the Dominion kits include a new barbed hose fitting and compression nut so you can shorten your hoses if required.
    They also come with both sintered-metallic and semi-metallic pads.

    These small parts are also available through any shop that does Hayes. I have a small pile of the barb fittings from way back.
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  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Iím a Clyde (260) looking for something that will hold up to the heat. Guides didnít quite cut it, XTRís seemed like a flimsy cheap brake, currently on Saints and love the stopping power but burnt some SRAM rotors. Put on ice tech rotors and the pads would rub after hard braking sessions until the fluid cooled down is my guess.
    Are these Dominions the ticket? Iím running 203/180 which is as big as my frame will take.
    How much heat the brakes take depends on how you brake and how fast you ride. The faster you ride, the faster they cool down. The hottest situation is continuous braking down steep but slow technical tracks.

    Historically I've been able to turn my front Hayes rotors a shade of purple with heat (almost 300C). I've always run DOT 5.1 or Super DOT 4 and never had a fluid heat problem.
    But interestingly I have not yet discoloured the rotors on my Dominions. I suspect I'm riding faster so more cooling wind and braking harder but less often so less heat soak. I didn't expect stronger brakes would change my usage enough to run that much cooler!

    You will need to run the sintered-metallic pads if you're getting them that hot. They maintain friction at very high temps.

    Oxide colours vs temp here:

    Heat Treatment - DT Online
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  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Got word back from Hayes.

    These use the same barbed hose fittings as all Hayes in recent memory do. There's a full bleed and service guide here: http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/wp-con...LEED-GUIDE.pdf

    The olives in the bleed kit are to securely retain the clear hose on the syringe fittings. You can see these fitted in the same bleed guide above.

    As ColinL said, the Dominion kits include a new barbed hose fitting and compression nut so you can shorten your hoses if required.
    They also come with both sintered-metallic and semi-metallic pads.

    These small parts are also available through any shop that does Hayes. I have a small pile of the barb fittings from way back.
    Looks like 1 barb/nut for one hose shortening? Hopefully I don't have to shorten either, but we'll see. Might be time to pull the trigger... thanks for checking into that for me.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    Looks like 1 barb/nut for one hose shortening? Hopefully I don't have to shorten either, but we'll see. Might be time to pull the trigger... thanks for checking into that for me.
    Each brake box set (front or rear) includes the bits to shorten the hose. So buy a pair and you can shorten both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    How much heat the brakes take depends on how you brake and how fast you ride. The faster you ride, the faster they cool down. The hottest situation is continuous braking down steep but slow technical tracks.
    Thanks, Iím at a crossroads now between these or MT7ís. Really like that MT7ís have been tested by third parties and their strengths and weaknesses are well documented. This brake, well, besides this thread Iíve found nothing else online. A couple people in here saying itís the best brake ever and one guy who had some small problems.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Thanks, Iím at a crossroads now between these or MT7ís. Really like that MT7ís have been tested by third parties and their strengths and weaknesses are well documented. This brake, well, besides this thread Iíve found nothing else online. A couple people in here saying itís the best brake ever and one guy who had some small problems.
    There are several reviews from popular mtb sites. I read them all and jumped in after my sram guide rsc seized.

    There's only been 2 issues reported in this thread, both of which are really set up issues.

    1) Some existing brake mounts will be too small. Hayes works obviously.

    2) Spend the time to cut and bleed the lines properly. If you've never really mastered the two syringe technique invite a capable friend over for a beer to help you.

    Personally, I found that a final bleed at the reservoir only took my front brake from "pretty good" to "perfect". I would have redone all three ports if necessary... It just wasn't.

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  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Thanks, Iím at a crossroads now between these or MT7ís. Really like that MT7ís have been tested by third parties and their strengths and weaknesses are well documented. This brake, well, besides this thread Iíve found nothing else online. A couple people in here saying itís the best brake ever and one guy who had some small problems.
    I was tossing up this same choice and ultimately just ordered the Dominions. They're similarly priced but it sounds like the Dominion wins on modulation which is important coming from Guides which actually have great modulation (when they work).

  135. #135
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    I was tossing up this same choice and ultimately just ordered the Dominions. They're similarly priced but it sounds like the Dominion wins on modulation which is important coming from Guides which actually have great modulation (when they work).
    Thanks, miss the modulation from my Guide Ultimates. Itís a hard toss up for me but I came across a Magura deal too good to pass up so Iím gonna try some MT5/7 variants (MT1893) for a bit. If they become too fussy which is my biggest fear for them, I know the Dominion is the next brake on the list!
    Last edited by farfromovin; 09-19-2018 at 01:35 PM.

  136. #136
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    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Very nice review. So according to them the power goes from MT7 to Saint to Dominion to Code. However, the Dominion has the best lever feel and modulation on the market. Not too shabby!

  138. #138
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    After reading what you guys were saying about the new Dominions, I was curious. My Guide RSC's have performed flawlessly, but sometimes they require a lot of lever input. Could these newfangled Hayes be all they're cracked up to be? Are they just hype? There's only one way to find out.

    Most of the online prices were the same, but I found a place that would give me a discount. I ordered up some Hayes Dominions with two-day shipping, expecting that I'd just bolt 'em on, and I'd be riding an hour after the UPS guy showed up at the door. Riiiiiight...

    The first "glitch" was in the rotors. Hayes doesn't show centerlocks on their web page, so I decided to stick with my Shimano Freeza's. Nope. The calipers on the Dominions are pretty huge, and don't clear the aluminum fins on the Freeza's. Great. So off the shop I went, and came home with a couple regular Ice Tech's. That problem was solved.

    The next "glitch" was also a result of the gargantuan Hayes calipers. None of the adapters I had on the shelf would accommodate the caliper. None of the shops near here carry Hayes adapters. The Southwest distributor for Hayes says that they're no longer a distributor for Hayes. Hayes finally called me, and gave me some part numbers, but my shops can't find one of those numbers. Sigh. Off the the bike shop again to dig through their retail stock as well as their parts drawer. I found a Shimano 203 and 180, and brought them home. The 203 was a perfect fit on the front. The 180 adapter didn't quite fit, so I clamped it into the milling machine and fixed it. Now the calipers were mounted.

    Mounting levers should be easy, right? It should have been, but I forgot that my Sram setup had an integral clamp for the lever and shifter. The project has now evolved into a chore. Mrs. Iron was calling me for dinner, and I needed a break anyway. After dinner, I realized that I CAN use the integral clamp. It would function fine, and look good to all but the most discerning eye. So I put it all together, and then went inside to order up the correct clamp.

    The hoses were stupidly long, so I chopped them and used the supplied barb to put everything back together. Bleeding is like bleeding anything else. The thread size is the same as Sram, Avid, Formula, etc. For the caliper, you need a bleed adapter with a long snout. No surprises in the bleed.

    After a break in, in front of the house, and a quickie ride, today I took the new brakes on a trail where I could really use them. I could tell you my impressions on their performance, but all the professional reviewers have already done their work, and they all seem in agreement: there's loads of modulation and a ton of power. They're right. When you let off, the brakes are OFF.

    There's a bit of a learning curve. The same lever input that I used on the Guides is a bit hamfisted for the Dominions. Gotta pay attention to using more finesse. But when I do, I can charge further and faster before shedding speed. Now I'm eager to get them into some steep technical rocks. So far I'm happy with the performance. Maybe I'm not as happy after throwing down for the brakes... and then new rotors... and then new adapters... and finally a clamp. But I'll soon forget about that, and all that will be left is the new brake stoke.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Very nice review. So according to them the power goes from MT7 to Saint to Dominion to Code. However, the Dominion has the best lever feel and modulation on the market. Not too shabby!
    And then you put the metallic pads in the Dominions and the power steps up higher.

    My riding mates (some of whom ride saints) were then scared by the braking power. I'm a great fan of the sintered metallic pads. But they do make some noise when wet.

    For adapters, I've sorted them all by part number and application here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou...hayes/adapters
    Any bike shop can order Hayes parts.

    Hayes adapters fit every other brake. Because the 74mm Post-Mount standard and the 6 bolt hub standard were designed by Hayes back in 2000. But some other brake makers adapters are too shallow to fit anyone elses calipers.

    Matchmaker clamps are still a few months away to bolt Shimano and Sram shifters to the levers.
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    Fairly confident my existing adapters I have for my guides will work.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Fairly confident my existing adapters I have for my guides will work.
    I'm not sure about that. I posted this before but the Dominion is much larger than the Guide caliper.

    I was using an old magura adapter which didn't work. The current magura adapters should work as the MT5 and mt7 are pretty large.

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  142. #142
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    I am still having the problem of wandering engagement point with my rear brake.
    I have released some oil at the lever per the Hayes recommendation to prevent overfill.
    It didn't help.
    I am going to do another full bleed (my 3rd) and if the problem persists I might take it to some shop with a good bleed guy or just warranty it.

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  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I am still having the problem of wandering engagement point with my rear brake.
    I have released some oil at the lever per the Hayes recommendation to prevent overfill.
    It didn't help.
    I am going to do another full bleed (my 3rd) and if the problem persists I might take it to some shop with a good bleed guy or just warranty it.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    If you can't fix it with a bleed then send it in for warranty. They'll get you sorted.
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  144. #144
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    Just fit up my new Dominions from Dougal. Only done a few laps around the yard with the organic pads but so far they seem to everything they're talked up to be. The alignment screws are bloody genius.The lever feel is so light that it makes minute feathering so much easier (I may finally learn to wheelie like a pro haha). I'll have one ride with the organics before switching to the metal pads but thus far they already feel every bit as powerful as my guides did with metal pads.

    For future reference they seem to work fine with my ice-tech rotors with plenty of adjustment available. My existing adapters also worked, I'll get part numbers of them later.

  145. #145
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    Adapters I used are just Shimano one's, 180-203 post to post on the front and IS to 203 on the rear. Part numbers are as follows
    SM-MA-F203P/PM
    SM-MA-R203P/S

  146. #146
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    Got my new Dominions fitted and hoses trimmed. Iíve only ever bled Shimanos which are insanely easy with the bleed nipple. I wanted to ask you guys - how do you bleed these style of brakes without getting DOT fluid everywhere?

    When I go to take the syringes off, fluid comes seeping out of the bleed port before I get the screw back in. Hayes video says to apply positive pressure on the syringes, but Iím wondering if that overfills the system?

    Anyway, with a bit of a learning curve to the bleed, my second try has the brakes feeling pretty good, in the garage at least. Lever feel is superb, minimal sponginess. Some rotor rub, as again I think Iím overfilling the system which results in the pistons being pretty far out by default.

    Havenít been able to bed them in yet, but I will post another update after I have some time on them.

  147. #147
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    First test ride on the Dominions done, can say I still hate organic pads. I had a horrible resonant vibration from the rear under moderate to slow speed braking. Front was fine and the braking was perfectly consistent, but I just don't like the feel of organic pads, never have. Threw the metal pads in as soon as I got home and the noise and vibration from the rear was gone, just typical metal pad noise that I'm used to. The power with the organic pads was probably on par with my guides with metal pads but much less effort is needed, which is a little scary if you ham fistedly grab a bunch of brake. Keen to get out and try the metal pads now.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    First test ride on the Dominions done, can say I still hate organic pads. I had a horrible resonant vibration from the rear under moderate to slow speed braking. Front was fine and the braking was perfectly consistent, but I just don't like the feel of organic pads, never have. Threw the metal pads in as soon as I got home and the noise and vibration from the rear was gone, just typical metal pad noise that I'm used to. The power with the organic pads was probably on par with my guides with metal pads but much less effort is needed, which is a little scary if you ham fistedly grab a bunch of brake. Keen to get out and try the metal pads now.
    If the noise persists, your rear rotor is not true. My semi metallic pads are silent, so I'm fairly sure it is your rotor, anyway.

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  149. #149
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    This is kinda dumb but does anyone have or know the best way to get a Hayes bleed block besides spending $55 for a new bleed kit? I contacted Hayes, they wonít hook me up. I suppose I could cut a block of wood to the right width, but it wouldnít be as hard as plastic 🤔

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    This is kinda dumb but does anyone have or know the best way to get a Hayes bleed block besides spending $55 for a new bleed kit? I contacted Hayes, they wonít hook me up. I suppose I could cut a block of wood to the right width, but it wouldnít be as hard as plastic 🤔
    Use your SRAM bleed block, or one from a generic kit (such as Jagwire). I used Magura, it fit better than SRAM. You will need to gently press in the pistons after bleeding regardless, I suggest a clean plastic tire lever. Watch the seals.

    Regarding your question previously about bleeding, yes, I saw in the Hayes video that they suggest to apply light pressure before unscrewing the syringe. This will of course make some fluid leak out.

    Other vendors such as SRAM suggest applying very light vacuum, which will prevent a leak, but if you overdo it, you'll suck in air when the syringe is removed. So I can see the merit in the idea to apply light pressure and just clean up the spill. A damp rag and then a lint free cloth with rubbing alcohol is the best way to clean.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Use your SRAM bleed block, or one from a generic kit (such as Jagwire). I used Magura, it fit better than SRAM. You will need to gently press in the pistons after bleeding regardless, I suggest a clean plastic tire lever. Watch the seals.

    Regarding your question previously about bleeding, yes, I saw in the Hayes video that they suggest to apply light pressure before unscrewing the syringe. This will of course make some fluid leak out.

    Other vendors such as SRAM suggest applying very light vacuum, which will prevent a leak, but if you overdo it, you'll suck in air when the syringe is removed. So I can see the merit in the idea to apply light pressure and just clean up the spill. A damp rag and then a lint free cloth with rubbing alcohol is the best way to clean.
    Thanks for the info. I have a generic bleed kit, and the block is a little bit narrower than the inside of the caliper. So, it doesn't push and hold the pistons back during the bleed. The result is that I have some rotor rub because the pistons are at rest sticking out a little bit, during the bleed.

    You mentioned I need to push them back after the bleed: Do this with the syringes still attached? I'm thinking after the bleed with the syringes still attached I could press the pistons back in a bit to force that extra fluid out. Maybe I'll play around with it some more.

    Edit: Played with them a little more, easy enough to just push the pistons back in before you take off the syringes. No more rub. Brakes feel rock solid.
    Last edited by griffsterb; 09-29-2018 at 09:18 AM.

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    If the noise persists, your rear rotor is not true. My semi metallic pads are silent, so I'm fairly sure it is your rotor, anyway.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    You're probably right but the metal pads seem to have fixed it. I'll get some new rotors soon though.

  153. #153
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    Hmm, wonder if the Magura 20mm post mount adapter clears cause I canít use the Hayes offset style (with separate bolts) 20mm post adapter on the rear of my frame, no clearance. The Magura is MUCH deeper than your typical Shimano adapter.

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    I just ordered a full set from Universal Cycles on Thursday. Then Friday I had a chance to ride Code brakes and I was underwhelmed. The Enduro Mag review said these are on par with the Codes plus a little extra power. I'm coming from Magura MT-5's that I've never loved although I know they are supposed to be the $hit. Mine haven't been consistent and are hard to bleed well. I'm running a 203 front rotor with Galfer semi metallic pads. If you are considering Magura definitely get the HC levers.
    I want big power with modulation. I'm wondering if I'm going to get the front brake power I want from the dominions?
    If there weren't so many stories of Saints being inconsistent I'd be on those but maybe they would still be a better bet for the power I want. Can anyone compare the Hayes to Saints?
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  155. #155
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    Well I still have a resonant noise and vibration from the rear, but now just under hard braking. Guess I'll buy a new rotor. Also getting seriously loud pad rattle. The braking however is fantastic. Not sure how I'm going to address the pad rattle issue yet, or if I can just live with it. I'm wondering if a few well placed drops of plastidip on the outside edges of the pads would work but the heat concerns me.

    Edit: I have some permatex rtv gasket maker silicone that's rated to 650 degrees F that I'll try if I can't live with the pad rattle.
    Last edited by GRPABT1; 09-29-2018 at 06:01 PM.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel View Post
    I just ordered a full set from Universal Cycles on Thursday. Then Friday I had a chance to ride Code brakes and I was underwhelmed. The Enduro Mag review said these are on par with the Codes plus a little extra power. I'm coming from Magura MT-5's that I've never loved although I know they are supposed to be the $hit. Mine haven't been consistent and are hard to bleed well. I'm running a 203 front rotor with Galfer semi metallic pads. If you are considering Magura definitely get the HC levers.
    I want big power with modulation. I'm wondering if I'm going to get the front brake power I want from the dominions?
    If there weren't so many stories of Saints being inconsistent I'd be on those but maybe they would still be a better bet for the power I want. Can anyone compare the Hayes to Saints?
    I can only guess as I havenít ridden Dominions but I have ridden Saints and MT1893ís. I think to get the power youíre after youíll need to run these with Sintered pads so when they get hot they just grab more. Thatís kinda how my Saints were. At low speeds the power was just ďmehĒ, but on long descents at high speeds with sintered pads they have that anti-gravity effect lol. And fwiw I never had anything BUT consistency with Saints. Not a fan of the huge lever dead space before engagement but you get used to it. That sucks you were underwhelmed by Codes. Were they RSCís? Those brakes should be nice.

  157. #157
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    OK so I had a spare 203mm ice-tech rotor that I removed ages ago as I know it was bent and couldn't stop it rubbing with my guides. Whacked it on the rear and surprisingly it doesn't rub and has stopped most of the resonant noise and vibration. Will still be buying a new one on pay day though.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    I can only guess as I havenít ridden Dominions but I have ridden Saints and MT1893ís. I think to get the power youíre after youíll need to run these with Sintered pads so when they get hot they just grab more. Thatís kinda how my Saints were. At low speeds the power was just ďmehĒ, but on long descents at high speeds with sintered pads they have that anti-gravity effect lol. And fwiw I never had anything BUT consistency with Saints. Not a fan of the huge lever dead space before engagement but you get used to it. That sucks you were underwhelmed by Codes. Were they RSCís? Those brakes should be nice.
    I was on 3 sets of Codes yesterday at demo event and I think at least 2 were RSC's. One set needed to be bled but the others were fine and consistent. I want more than fine.
    In the Shimano pad world I like metallic more than the resin or organic pads. The Enduro article preferred the sintered didn't state which was stronger in the dry. Dougal seemed say the metallic pads were stronger than the sintered.
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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel View Post
    I was on 3 sets of Codes yesterday at demo event and I think at least 2 were RSC's. One set needed to be bled but the others were fine and consistent. I want more than fine.
    In the Shimano pad world I like metallic more than the resin or organic pads. The Enduro article preferred the sintered didn't state which was stronger in the dry. Dougal seemed say the metallic pads were stronger than the sintered.
    Fortunately, the Dominion comes with both semi metallic and sintered pads, so you can try them both. Or just go with sintered and if the noise doesn't bother you, then don't worry about the semi metallic.

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    OK swapped ANOTHER 203mm rotor onto the rear, not an ice tech just a cheap BBB stainless and after bedding in its incrementally better but the noise and vibration is still there. 3 different rotors and the fact the front is fine leads me to believe it's not the rotors at fault. It's also not the pads as both sets they came with have done it. So I'm going to hope they come good with a bleed from my LBS when I trim the hoses soon. For now I'll keep riding it as is and see if it gets worse or better.

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    This noise is driving me insane!

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Well I still have a resonant noise and vibration from the rear, but now just under hard braking. Guess I'll buy a new rotor. Also getting seriously loud pad rattle. The braking however is fantastic. Not sure how I'm going to address the pad rattle issue yet, or if I can just live with it. I'm wondering if a few well placed drops of plastidip on the outside edges of the pads would work but the heat concerns me.

    Edit: I have some permatex rtv gasket maker silicone that's rated to 650 degrees F that I'll try if I can't live with the pad rattle.
    The pad spring should stop any rattle. Check it's installed correctly and hasn't been squashed.
    Noise can be a variety of things. Contamination, a flexible brake mount or something loose.

    What's the bike? Got any pics of your setup? Email is good.
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  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    This noise is driving me insane!
    Bare with me here... what if you had somehow left a little bit of dot on your rear caliper and after a bit of riding it contaminated your organic pads. That caused the vibration on braking and contaminated your ice tech. Then you swapped to sintered and it was better but still there. The contamination on your ice tech is now also on your sintered pads. Then you swapped in cheap test rotor and it still persists.

    My recommendation when you get a new rear rotor is to pull your pads, thoroughly clean the caliper and surrounding area, and install new sintered pads.

    I mean, Iím just guessing at the problem here but I know one time I, err I mean a friend of mine, did something just like this...

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Bare with me here... what if you had somehow left a little bit of dot on your rear caliper and after a bit of riding it contaminated your organic pads. That caused the vibration on braking and contaminated your ice tech. Then you swapped to sintered and it was better but still there. The contamination on your ice tech is now also on your sintered pads. Then you swapped in cheap test rotor and it still persists.

    My recommendation when you get a new rear rotor is to pull your pads, thoroughly clean the caliper and surrounding area, and install new sintered pads.

    I mean, Iím just guessing at the problem here but I know one time I, err I mean a friend of mine, did something just like this...
    That might be a vague possibility if I had bled the brakes at all yet. Currently still have long ass hoses as they come out of the box. No fluid has gone near them.

    PM and email sent Dougal, thank you for helping.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    That might be a vague possibility if I had bled the brakes at all yet. Currently still have long ass hoses as they come out of the box. No fluid has gone near them.

    PM and email sent Dougal, thank you for helping.
    Damn!

    For Douglas or any Dominion owners how is the pad clearance on the rotor? Do these pistons roll back a lot like Shimano? I tend to put little warps in rotors from heat so if thereís a decent amount of clearance itís no big deal but on tight brakes like Maguras, it becomes a big deal...

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Damn!

    For Douglas or any Dominion owners how is the pad clearance on the rotor? Do these pistons roll back a lot like Shimano? I tend to put little warps in rotors from heat so if thereís a decent amount of clearance itís no big deal but on tight brakes like Maguras, it becomes a big deal...
    Yes the pistons and pads roll back. Not as far as the original Hayes Mags and recent Primes, because these brakes run at higher hydraulic leverage. But enough that you can see daylight either side of a well aligned rotor as it spins.
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  167. #167
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    First ride today. Brakes are great. The lever just feels so good, itís the best Iíve tried. Code RSCs have a good lever feel, as do the new TRPs, but the Hayes are tops. The free stroke is feather-light, the engagement is quick. Build quality is top notch, no lateral play in the pivot.

    The performance appears to be superb but I need a little more time on them to gauge. The stopping power is there, no question about that. I need to hit some longer, steeper descents to really put them through the wringer. Theyíre way better for practicing wheelies too, compared to shimanos.

    Also, I had some minor rotor rub after installing but itís gone after the first ride.

    Still on the stock organic pads, as well.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Damn!

    For Douglas or any Dominion owners how is the pad clearance on the rotor? Do these pistons roll back a lot like Shimano? I tend to put little warps in rotors from heat so if thereís a decent amount of clearance itís no big deal but on tight brakes like Maguras, it becomes a big deal...
    In my rotor swapping antics I've found that rotors I couldn't get to not rub on other brakes have cleared fine on the Dominions, and yet the adjustment level at the lever is still ample so it's not too much free stroke.

    I think I've sorted my vibration issues, will report back tomorrow after a proper ride.

  169. #169
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    Hooray! Finally fixed my resonant vibration issue. 180mm ice-tech rotor on the back robbed off my XC bike completely fixed it. It seems these big, powerful brakes combined with a tall caliper adapter for a 203mm rotor act like a tuning fork for my carbon stays sending vibrations all through the bike that I could feel in feet and hands. At first I was very reluctant to reduce rotor size as I'm not a light guy and that kinda negates the point of upgrading but I can now confidently say there was no need to worry. In the past I've needed every bit of braking I could get from my Guide RSC's and 203mm rotors all round, never boiling the fluid like I have with Shimano XT's but pulling all the way to the bars and still accelerating. I just did a ride with a 5 minute downhill run and the Dominion's were absolutely faultless. The consistency is magic, never had more confidence inspiring braking than this. The bite point never changed and I didn't need to pull hard at all on the levers, and yet it was very controllable, not on/off like Shimano's at all. I could still lock up the rear easy enough if need be and overall the braking was much more effortless than my guides with 203's all round. I'm now a very happy customer.

    I might try a new 203mm adapter on the rear some day just for experiment's sake but honestly I kinda like saving a few grams for no drawback 

    Now I've sorted my issues I can get around to trimming the hoses and giving them a bleed with some Motul RBF600 fluid.
    Last edited by GRPABT1; 10-02-2018 at 03:43 AM.

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Hooray! Finally fixed my resonant vibration issue. 180mm ice-tech rotor on the back robbed off my XC bike completely fixed it. It seems these big, powerful brakes combined with a tall caliper adapter for a 203mm rotor act like a tuning fork for my carbon stays se sing vibrations all through the bike that I could feel in feet and hands. At first I was very reluctant to reduce rotor size as I'm not a light guy and that kinda negates the point of upgrading but I can now confidently say there was no need to worry. In the past I've needed every bit of braking I could get from my Guide RSC's and 203mm rotors all round, never boiling the fluid like I have with Shimano XT's but pulling all the way to the bars and still accelerating. I just did a ride with a 5 minute downhill run and the Dominion's were absolutely faultless. The consistency is magic, never had more confidence inspiring braking than this. The bite point never changed and I didn't need to pull hard at all on the levers, and yet it was very controllable, not on/off like Shimano's at all. I could still lock up the rear easy enough if need be and overall the pranking was much more effortless than my guides with 203's all round. I'm now a very happy customer.

    I might try a new 203mm adapter on the rear some day just for experiment's sake but honestly I kinda like saving a few grams for no drawback 

    Now I've sorted my issues I can get around to trimming the hoses and giving them a bleed with some Motul RBF600 fluid.
    Great to hear.
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  171. #171
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Installed Dominions today with D series rotors in 203/180 using Magura QM26 (+23 PM to PM) and QM40 (+20 PM to PM) adapters with sintered pads. Iíve bled Shimano, SRAM, Magura, and now Hayes and I gotta say I appreciate SRAMís Bleeding Edge for a mess free setup but thereís something fun about Hayes twin port on the caliper. Got it rub free on the stand easy enough.

    **edit** Did a 10 mile trail Iím very familiar with this afternoon with a nice 1kí descent mixed with flow and technical rock sections, best brake experience Iíve ever had. Saint power levels (or more) with Guide modulation (or better) with the lightest lever on the market. Iíve ridden Guide Ultimates, XTR Trails, Saints, Magura MT1893ís, and these are hands down my favorite brake on the market. Iíd prefer a different lever design as I think it sits a little far from the bar but itís something Iíll happily get used to because of that light lever pull.

    Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-img_0145.jpg

    Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-img_0142.jpg

    Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-img_0143.jpg
    Last edited by farfromovin; 10-04-2018 at 07:55 AM.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Installed Dominions today with D series rotors in 203/180 using Magura QM26 (+23 PM to PM) and QM40 (+20 PM to PM) adapters with sintered pads. Iíve bled Shimano, SRAM, Magura, and now Hayes and I gotta say I appreciate SRAMís Bleeding Edge for a mess free setup but thereís something fun about Hayes twin port on the caliper. Got it rub free on the stand easy enough.

    **edit** Did a 10 mile trail Iím very familiar with this afternoon with a nice 1kí descent mixed with flow and technical rock sections, best brake experience Iíve ever had. Saint power levels (or more) with Guide modulation (or better) with the lightest lever on the market. Iíve ridden Guide Ultimates, XTR Trails, Saints, Magura MT1893ís, and these are hands down my favorite brake on the market. Iíd prefer a different lever design as I think it sits a little far from the bar but itís something Iíll happily get used to because of that light lever pull.

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    I just ordered the same kit that you have, now waiting for them to arrive so I can install. Sounds like it is working great for you, hoping I have the same experience!

  173. #173
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Ugh, glazed my rotors/pads a bit last weekend. I was camping and doing an easy group family ride around the campground with my dog on a leash on my left hand dragged my rear brake down a long hill and started howling at the bottom. Figured it was just hot, understandable, but went on a real ride the following day and sure enough, the rear was howling immediately. Did some ridiculously steep chutes with sharp switchbacks, probably only 600í of drop maybe but by the time I was at the bottom the f/r were both howling.
    Rotors had a slight black sheen. Gave the rotors a nice scrub with 240 grit and lightly removed the top pad layer as well. Since the brakes were apart I replaced the fluid with some Motul RBF600! Time to bed the brakes in again.
    This is the sintered metallic pad. I expected the heat from dragging the rear but the front surprised me a little. Even though howling, they still had power but I could tell it was reduced. I used to always run organic or semi metallic pads as itís always dry here in SoCal so I donít have a ton of experience with sintered. I thought they didnít glaze? Well, I should say, the pads didnít look bad at all, just the black sheen on the rotors but I didnít see that coming from the sintered setup.
    Last edited by farfromovin; 10-10-2018 at 02:19 PM.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Ugh, glazed my rotors/pads a bit last weekend. I was camping and doing an easy group family ride around the campground with my dog on a leash on my left hand dragged my rear brake down a long hill and started howling at the bottom. Figured it was just hot, understandable, but went on a real ride the following day and sure enough, the rear was howling immediately. Did some ridiculously steep chutes with sharp switchbacks, probably only 600í of drop maybe but by the time I was at the bottom the f/r were both howling.
    Rotors had a slight black sheen. Gave the rotors a nice scrub with 240 grit and lightly removed the top pad layer as well. Since the brakes were apart I replaced the fluid with some Motul RBF600! Time to bed the brakes in again.
    This is the sintered metallic pad. I expected the heat from dragging the rear but the front surprised me a little. Even though howling, they still had power but I could tell it was reduced. I used to always run organic or semi metallic pads as itís always dry here in SoCal so I donít have a ton of experience with sintered. I thought they didnít glaze? Well, I should say, the pads didnít look bad at all, just the black sheen on the rotors but I didnít see that coming from the sintered setup.
    I was about to install mine and then read this. Back to the hell of analysis paralysis.
    2 wheels

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Ugh, glazed my rotors/pads a bit last weekend. I was camping and doing an easy group family ride around the campground with my dog on a leash on my left hand dragged my rear brake down a long hill and started howling at the bottom. Figured it was just hot, understandable, but went on a real ride the following day and sure enough, the rear was howling immediately. Did some ridiculously steep chutes with sharp switchbacks, probably only 600í of drop maybe but by the time I was at the bottom the f/r were both howling.
    Rotors had a slight black sheen. Gave the rotors a nice scrub with 240 grit and lightly removed the top pad layer as well. Since the brakes were apart I replaced the fluid with some Motul RBF600! Time to bed the brakes in again.
    This is the sintered metallic pad. I expected the heat from dragging the rear but the front surprised me a little. Even though howling, they still had power but I could tell it was reduced. I used to always run organic or semi metallic pads as itís always dry here in SoCal so I donít have a ton of experience with sintered. I thought they didnít glaze? Well, I should say, the pads didnít look bad at all, just the black sheen on the rotors but I didnít see that coming from the sintered setup.
    I think I slightly glazed my rear the other day, didn't bother touching it and just rode again today and it quietened down once it got some heat in it.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    I think I slightly glazed my rear the other day, didn't bother touching it and just rode again today and it quietened down once it got some heat in it.
    I sanded all the glaze off the rotors to a near new finish and took the top layer off my pads. Did some parking lot pulls till I got my power back and went on a normal ride with a nice 1kí descent. Started to get some howling again when the brakes were getting worked (not dragged), but checked the rotor wear pattern and theyíre not fully bedded yet.
    So today after work Iím gonna give these guys a real workout. A nice 7 mile 3500í descent. High speed so lots of cooling opportunity with enough flat spots where I donít have to be on the brakes constantly like in short tech sections. That should sort out these pads and get everything playing nice again. Pads and rotors donít play nice unless theyíre bedded together properly, and sintered takes a little more time than semi metallic.

  177. #177
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel View Post
    I was about to install mine and then read this. Back to the hell of analysis paralysis.
    Iím pretty sure I forced my brakes back into quiet submission. Gave them a great workout down a very large descent. Stopped every so often, waited for them to cool, poured water on the pads just for some more grinding action. Theyíre powerful and for the most part quiet again now. The greatest thing is the rotor never rubbed! This route had my Saints with ice tech rotors rubbing for a good 5 minutes after finishing the descent.
    If I were you Iíd install them and ride the crap out of them.

    I am kinda curious about the semi metallic pads though... I might get another set of D rotors and try them out.
    Last edited by farfromovin; 10-15-2018 at 07:44 AM.

  178. #178
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    Brakes' performance is good but the levers don't have that rock solid feel when they engage. Just a tad bit squishy. Any techniques to bleeding or removing air that have worked for you guys?

    They have quite a bit of dead stroke too. When I first put them on I fiddled with the bleeding a lot - I only have experience bleeding Shimanos which are clean and easy. These are a bit harder to bleed imo. I might just do another full bleed on both, I suppose it possible that riding and breaking them in knocked some more air bubbles loose that I couldn't flush initially?

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    Brakes' performance is good but the levers don't have that rock solid feel when they engage. Just a tad bit squishy. Any techniques to bleeding or removing air that have worked for you guys?

    They have quite a bit of dead stroke too. When I first put them on I fiddled with the bleeding a lot - I only have experience bleeding Shimanos which are clean and easy. These are a bit harder to bleed imo. I might just do another full bleed on both, I suppose it possible that riding and breaking them in knocked some more air bubbles loose that I couldn't flush initially?
    They definitely donít have that Magura solid feel, more akin to SRAM on the lever feel. On a good bleed youíll notice on the stand a couple mmís of lever pull starts to engage the brakes. That might be less apparent on the trail as there is little stopping power at that level of lever force. But, I wouldnít say mine have ever been squishy. You should be able to squeeze them to the bars and have a firm point where the levers donít go any further, like all brakes.

  180. #180
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    I have heard people say that you can't pull too much vacuum when using a dual syringe method or you could blow a seal in the lever/cylinder assembly. But it hasn't ever happened to me.

    During initial setup I followed the Hayes procedure exactly. I got my rear brake to about 90% of what I thought it should feel like, and the front was softer, maybe only 75%. So I left the wheels on, left the pads in, and elevated the front of the bike in a stand. Then I rotated the levers so that the bleed valve was level and I put on a syringe filled with fluid and repeated the lever-side procedure.

    I was able to pull quite a bit more air bubbles out of the system and then both levers were firm, for Dominions. By design, there is simply not as much lever effort with the Dominion as any other hydraulic brake I have ever used. So it feels soft compared to SRAM in particular, but man, they have a lot of power.

    Also, if you have your lever reach adjusted close, you'll have a softer lever and more travel than if you have it all the way out. Every brake I've used with adjustable reach has this 'feature'. It's just the way the lever actuates the cylinder.

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    Brakes' performance is good but the levers don't have that rock solid feel when they engage. Just a tad bit squishy. Any techniques to bleeding or removing air that have worked for you guys?

    They have quite a bit of dead stroke too. When I first put them on I fiddled with the bleeding a lot - I only have experience bleeding Shimanos which are clean and easy. These are a bit harder to bleed imo. I might just do another full bleed on both, I suppose it possible that riding and breaking them in knocked some more air bubbles loose that I couldn't flush initially?
    They are a softer feel than previous Hayes. Simply because they run at higher hydraulic leverage. With a good bleed you've got firm engagement point but can squeeze the lever all the way to the grip if you want to. If you don't have firm engagement then you've likely got air inside.

    Because of the power they've got, you don't apply much lever force riding.
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  182. #182
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    Shimano rotors are 1.8mm thick. Is it still ok to use them with Dominion? I need Centerlock discs thats why I ask.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    Shimano rotors are 1.8mm thick. Is it still ok to use them with Dominion? I need Centerlock discs thats why I ask.
    You can NOT use the Freeza rotors because the aluminum fins interfere with the Hayes caliper. You CAN use Shimano's Ice Tech rotors.

  184. #184
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    I think the best answer to the rotors would come from Hayes. On another recent thread about Maguraís, a Magura tech said absolutely do NOT use smaller rotors with their brakes. I know, this is about Hayes and not Magura but they both use 1.95mm thick rotors. Really just depends on how far out the pistons can safely retract on a worn down (1.6mm) non-Hayes rotor. I bet itís fine, but I didnít design the caliper lol.

  185. #185
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    Mine are at Hayes now, I couldn't get rid of the wandering bite point in the rear.
    Hayes has had the brakes for more than 2 weeks now, but they have not touched them yet...

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    I think the best answer to the rotors would come from Hayes.
    I asked "Can I use Shimano XT rotors with Dominion? I need Centerlock rotors."

    and [email protected] gave this answer:

    "If you use a different rotor than the hayes one* you will lose your warranty because we never tested dominion with
    a shimano rotor , so the answer is No .

    You can use a IS / centerlock adapter to fix the hayes rotor on your shimano hubs ,"

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I asked "Can I use Shimano XT rotors with Dominion? I need Centerlock rotors."

    and [email protected] gave this answer:

    "If you use a different rotor than the hayes one* you will lose your warranty because we never tested dominion with
    a shimano rotor , so the answer is No .

    You can use a IS / centerlock adapter to fix the hayes rotor on your shimano hubs ,"
    and Im betting their are PLENTY out there on all sorts of rotors other than hayes..

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I asked "Can I use Shimano XT rotors with Dominion? I need Centerlock rotors."

    and [email protected] gave this answer:

    "If you use a different rotor than the hayes one* you will lose your warranty because we never tested dominion with
    a shimano rotor , so the answer is No .
    I think that would be enough to make me cross Hayes off my list. I've been running my Dominions for about 250 miles, and I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have been to eager to jump on their bandwagon.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    I think the best answer to the rotors would come from Hayes. On another recent thread about Maguraís, a Magura tech said absolutely do NOT use smaller rotors with their brakes. I know, this is about Hayes and not Magura but they both use 1.95mm thick rotors. Really just depends on how far out the pistons can safely retract on a worn down (1.6mm) non-Hayes rotor. I bet itís fine, but I didnít design the caliper lol.
    Huh, I didn't realize that the Hayes D-series rotors were 1.95mm. I've used Magura brakes in the past and am familiar with their 1.95mm thick rotors.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Huh, I didn't realize that the Hayes D-series rotors were 1.95mm. I've used Magura brakes in the past and am familiar with their 1.95mm thick rotors.
    Yup, Hayes and Magura 1.95, Shimano 1.8, SRAM 1.7. Then subtract .2 for each for the minimum thickness. Besides these Dominions, my next favorite brake setup was Saints with SRAM rotors cause the narrower rotor gave the required clearance to allow the Shimano rotor to not rub when warm.
    Maguraís almost always rub, Shimano rub when hot, Sram and Dominions just donít rub (based off my experiences with M9020, M820, Guides, MT7ís, and Dominions). I prefer the Dominion power, modulation, and thick rotors.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    I think that would be enough to make me cross Hayes off my list. I've been running my Dominions for about 250 miles, and I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have been to eager to jump on their bandwagon.
    I don't see the problem using Hayes rotors with Centerlock adapters on Centerlock hubs. That's what I do. Using another manufacturer's rotor is problematic unless you carefully research and match the width of the brake rack, diameter, and rotor thickness.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Yup, Hayes and Magura 1.95, Shimano 1.8, SRAM 1.7. Then subtract .2 for each for the minimum thickness. Besides these Dominions, my next favorite brake setup was Saints with SRAM rotors cause the narrower rotor gave the required clearance to allow the Shimano rotor to not rub when warm.
    Maguraís almost always rub, Shimano rub when hot, Sram and Dominions just donít rub (based off my experiences with M9020, M820, Guides, MT7ís, and Dominions). I prefer the Dominion power, modulation, and thick rotors.
    If your rotors rub when warm, you possibly have too much fluid in the system.

    Often with a new brake (or even new pads) it's difficult to get it all running drag free on the stand. After a couple of rides they behave normally and are easy to realign drag free.
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  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    I think that would be enough to make me cross Hayes off my list. I've been running my Dominions for about 250 miles, and I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have been to eager to jump on their bandwagon.
    The question is, what warranty issue are you going to have that is pad/rotor related?

    If you had a 3rd party rotor explode and gark up the caliper, extremely rare, that wouldn't be covered under warranty.
    But I can't see them stiffing you on a caliper or lever leak.

    Warranty serves two purposes:
    1. Ensure the customer gets what they paid for.
    2. Fast feedback to the manufacturer for any product issues.

    The Hayes warranty guys are very good and if there is any issue, they want to know about it.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    I think that would be enough to make me cross Hayes off my list. I've been running my Dominions for about 250 miles, and I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have been to eager to jump on their bandwagon.
    Let me know if you want to sell them.... i would be interested....

  195. #195
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    After sending my Dominions to Hayes warranty with the wandering bite point I have received a new pair.
    They said they couldn't find what was wrong with them /which could also mean they didn't find anything wrong/ anyway, the new set works just like it should, no more stiffening lever under high braking.
    However, the rear brake lever throw is a little longer compared to the front.

    I mounted the new Dominions thinking I would try them how they come before I cut the hoses. To my surprise they were already cut to the right length. /Matching my old set/ Thanks Hayes!

    I have arthritis in my right index finger and was sometimes having problem to completely lock my xtr/180mm ice tech.
    Dominions do not require as much force to stop.
    I also like the modulation. How it has been mentioned before, the lever doesn't stop abruptly, it has a nice soft control at the end, but it doesn't feel spongy.

    I would compare it to my trusty old Audi, the brake modulation has a soft, light feel, where the power comes gently but surly with a lot of control.
    They are very intuitive, the adjustment period is short.



    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by jazzanova; 12-03-2018 at 10:57 AM.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    After sending my Dominions to Hayes warranty with the wandering bite point I have received a new pair.
    They said they couldn't find what was wrong with them /which could also mean they didn't find anything wrong/ anyway, the new set works just like it should, no more stiffening lever under high braking.
    However, the rear brake lever throw is a little longer compared to the front.

    I mounted the new Dominions thinking I would try them how they come before I cut the hoses. To my surprise they were already cut to the right length. /Matching my old set/ Thanks Hayes!

    I have arthritis in my right index finger and was sometimes having problem to completely lock my xtr/180mm ice tech.
    Dominions do not require as much force to stop.
    I also like the modulation. How it has been mentioned before, the lever doesn't stop abruptly, it has a nice soft control at the end, but it doesn't feel spongy.

    I would compare it to my trusty old Audi, the brake modulation has a soft, light feel, where the power comes gently but surly with a lot of control.
    They are very intuitive, the adjustment period is short.



    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    Always nice to see good customer service.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Always nice to see good customer service.
    I completely agree.

    Also, my rear lever is slightly softer than front. I am pretty confident they are equally well bled. I speculate this is due to the significantly longer length of tubing, and the associated flex when pushing hydraulic fluid.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I completely agree.

    Also, my rear lever is slightly softer than front. I am pretty confident they are equally well bled. I speculate this is due to the significantly longer length of tubing, and the associated flex when pushing hydraulic fluid.
    My thoughts as well.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

  199. #199
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    It looks like Pinkbike likes them:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbi...ar-winner.html
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    well deserved!

    I did several costly things this year...
    Guide RSC -> Dominion A4
    Spank Oozy wheels -> Bontrager Line 30 Pro (AL to carbon and 6 deg engagement to 3.3)
    Manitou Mattoc Pro -> MRP Ribbon Air fork

    Dominion was the cheapest and by far the most impactful.

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