Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike. - Page 3- Mtbr.com
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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I am trying to source a 180-203 post mount adaptor for my Rockshox pike.
    Does anyone know the part number or the place which sells them?
    If you can't find the Hayes one just get the Hope one. H mount version.

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Hope-Disc-Brake-Adaptor

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

  2. #402
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    I purchased the Paul components one from here..
    https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/compon.../disc-adapter/

    Sent from my J8170 using Tapatalk

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I am trying to source a 180-203 post mount adaptor for my Rockshox pike.
    Does anyone know the part number or the place which sells them?
    Just get the exact one from Hayes:

    https://shop.hayesperformance.com/co...31135026577444

  4. #404
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    Finally finished my new bike build. Thanks for all the help! I've only taken a few spins around the block, so I'm still breaking them in, but overall I'm impressed.

    Coming from Hope E4s, these feel very similar in both modulation and power. The rear brake pulls almost to the bar but I'm used to that with my hopes too. They're quieter than the hopes on sintered pads so far, and I didn't find the bleed process to be too much of a hassle.

    Need some time on the mountain, but thus far I think Hayes nailed it

    EDIT - I bled the brakes again (2nd round) and took it on it's maiden voyage today. Brakes now engage much earlier into the lever, and full lock is well before the bar.

    Sent from my Sony Xperia 1 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by mike_of_earth; 01-08-2020 at 09:36 PM.

  5. #405
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    We're getting positive feedback from a market segment who I didn't think would fully appreciate these brakes. Women.

    It's not the huge power they're liking, because not many of them need that. It's the fine control they like. Reporting being able to smoothly ride down technical sections that were always grabby and jerky before.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  6. #406
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    Dominion A4 vs. rest

    I think that "lev" means leverage.

    Shimano Servo-Wave technology is not factored in.
    The table doesn't factor in rotors and pads.
    It's purely about pistons' size and system leverage.

    SRAM Code
    Formula Cura 4
    Hope Tech V4
    Trickstuff Direttissima
    Hayes Dominon A4
    Magura MT7/MT5
    Shimano XT M8020

    Hope Tech V4 caliper with SRAM Code lever
    Hope Tech V4 caliper with Hayes Domnion A4 lever
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-hayes.png  


    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  7. #407
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    NSMB Reviews are up: https://nsmb.com/articles/hayes-domi...-brake-review/

    Interesting review, one tester loved the sintered metallic pads, the other the semi-metallic.

    Cam McRae's comment on preferring deeper hook levers makes me wonder if he'd like the J-Unit SFL lever blades. I have a set here I need to photograph beside the normal levers to show the differences.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    Dominion A4 vs. rest

    I think that "lev" means leverage.

    Shimano Servo-Wave technology is not factored in.
    The table doesn't factor in rotors and pads.
    It's purely about pistons' size and system leverage.

    SRAM Code
    Formula Cura 4
    Hope Tech V4
    Trickstuff Direttissima
    Hayes Dominon A4
    Magura MT7/MT5
    Shimano XT M8020

    Hope Tech V4 caliper with SRAM Code lever
    Hope Tech V4 caliper with Hayes Domnion A4 lever
    Interesting results. The Dominions are running higher hydraulic leverage than anyone else. Any idea where on the levers they measured the mechanical leverage?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Interesting results. The Dominions are running higher hydraulic leverage than anyone else. Any idea where on the levers they measured the mechanical leverage?
    hmm that's a very interesting question. one would hope that they measured it in the center of the 'hook' on the lever, where your finger would be.

    but if for some reason they did measure from the end of the lever that would be quite different.

  10. #410
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    For those of you who haven't already heard it, the latest CyclingTips Nerd Alert podcast features a highly informative and interesting interview with a Hayes brake engineer

    https://cyclingtips.com/2020/02/nerd...ct-disc-brake/

    "This week, James chats with brake engineer John Thomas about the difficulties in perfecting disc brakes, and how the very nature of the way we put bikes together these days makes it almost impossible to make them completely silent. "

  11. #411
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    I have decided to order the Dominion A4ís to put on my new Alchemy Arktos ST I am building up.

    My question is regarding rotors. My bike came with a DT Swiss wheelset and the hubs are centerlock. Currently there are new 180mm Shimano RT70 rotors installed on my wheels.

    I know the shimano rotors are a bit thin compared to the Hayes ones. Iíd rather not use 6 bolt adapters (seem like extra hassle and more things to go wrong) in order to run the Hayes D series rotors, are there other centerlock rotors that would be better than the ones I have? How about the Magura Storm CL? They are 2mm thick which is really close the the Hayes (1.95 ?). Or just run my Shimano ones for now?

    End game is different wheels with 6 bolt hubs and Hayes rotors, but thatís probably late summer at the earliest. Sorry for the wall of text


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  12. #412
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    Maybe just stick with the Shimano rotors until they are smoked? They are pretty thin, but also pretty light. I assume the weight is why people buy them?

    After that, try some larger, thicker rotors! https://mtbphd.com/2019/08/18/3-reas...bigger-rotors/

    The Hayes rotors are good. The Magura Storm rotors are also good (haven't tried CL).
    MTB scientist guy @ mtbphd.com
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  13. #413
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    I've got DT Swiss centerlock hubs and went with DT's centerlock to 6 bolt adapter. No issues, light weight compared to the Shimano adapter, simple to install, and you can use the proper rotors.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnarzt View Post
    I have decided to order the Dominion A4ís to put on my new Alchemy Arktos ST I am building up.

    My question is regarding rotors. My bike came with a DT Swiss wheelset and the hubs are centerlock. Currently there are new 180mm Shimano RT70 rotors installed on my wheels.

    I know the shimano rotors are a bit thin compared to the Hayes ones. Iíd rather not use 6 bolt adapters (seem like extra hassle and more things to go wrong) in order to run the Hayes D series rotors, are there other centerlock rotors that would be better than the ones I have? How about the Magura Storm CL? They are 2mm thick which is really close the the Hayes (1.95 ?). Or just run my Shimano ones for now?

    End game is different wheels with 6 bolt hubs and Hayes rotors, but thatís probably late summer at the earliest. Sorry for the wall of text


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'd use adapters. I didn't need them myself, but from what I've read I think the bigger issue would be using non-hayes rotors. Some have had success, but to me it's a bigger gamble than some adapters.

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  15. #415
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    Okay, adapters and Hayes rotors it is. Now to explain to the boss why my brand new bike needs more new parts... I guess I can sell the Shimano ones to offset some of it.


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  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnarzt View Post
    Okay, adapters and Hayes rotors it is. Now to explain to the boss why my brand new bike needs more new parts... I guess I can sell the Shimano ones to offset some of it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Good call. I'd use adapters so I could run the rotors the brake was designed with. As well as width being a factor, noise & vibration is also a factor.

    Here's a great podcast that interviews a Hayes brake engineer
    https://cyclingtips.com/2020/02/nerd...ct-disc-brake/

  17. #417
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    Still Loving my new build and brakes. The modulation and power is awesome.

    I have developed a slight squeak on one of the levers (when releasing). Is it okay if I spray a pinch of WD-40 on the hinge to see if that stops it? I don't want to mess anything up.

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  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_of_earth View Post
    Still Loving my new build and brakes. The modulation and power is awesome.

    I have developed a slight squeak on one of the levers (when releasing). Is it okay if I spray a pinch of WD-40 on the hinge to see if that stops it? I don't want to mess anything up.

    Sent from my J8170 using Tapatalk
    Same. I put a bit of tri flow on mine a few months ago. No worries since.
    Commencal Meta TR 29 British Ed. // Commencal Absolut

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_of_earth View Post
    Still Loving my new build and brakes. The modulation and power is awesome.

    I have developed a slight squeak on one of the levers (when releasing). Is it okay if I spray a pinch of WD-40 on the hinge to see if that stops it? I don't want to mess anything up.

    Sent from my J8170 using Tapatalk
    I'd use the wd40 specialist dry lube spray. The ptfe one would work.

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  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabber127 View Post
    Same. I put a bit of tri flow on mine a few months ago. No worries since.
    I've got the same happening with mine. Where did you apply lube? Right on to the pivot bearing?

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin83 View Post
    I've got the same happening with mine. Where did you apply lube? Right on to the pivot bearing?
    It's super easy to remove the lever. Unscrew and remove, then apply a bit of grease on the joint. Less than a 5min job.

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_of_earth View Post
    Still Loving my new build and brakes. The modulation and power is awesome.

    I have developed a slight squeak on one of the levers (when releasing). Is it okay if I spray a pinch of WD-40 on the hinge to see if that stops it? I don't want to mess anything up.

    Sent from my J8170 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by justin83 View Post
    I've got the same happening with mine. Where did you apply lube? Right on to the pivot bearing?
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    It's super easy to remove the lever. Unscrew and remove, then apply a bit of grease on the joint. Less than a 5min job.
    It's probably the ball joint on the end of the plunger. Undo the lever screws and the whole assembly slides out (while the rest of the brake stays nicely together).

    Clean it, tiny dab of grease and good to go for another year.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  23. #423
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    Squeak advice from Hayes Engineers.

    In dry and dusty conditions the lever to push-rod pivot can develop a little squeak. A drop or two of Triflow is the cure.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  24. #424
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    This thread 1st got me interested in these brakes. Iíve read a lot of other reviews and I donít think I saw any negatives except the bite point adjustment, which for my use seems to be perfect.

    These replaced Shimano XT 4 pot brakes with shimano 203mm Rotors front and rear. No problem whatís so ever with these. I needed brakes for another build Iím doing, so I upgraded to these for my main ride.

    I reused the Shimano 203mm rotors without any issues. Installation was pretty easy and bleeding using the 2 syringes method was a piece of cake.

    I was able to get the lever engagement exactly were I wanted it and no matter how steep the downhills, the brakes engagement stayed the same. Power in my opinion is right there with some of the strongest contenders out there Iíve tried: Saints, TRP and Codes.

    Iím impressed with these brakes and a nice added bonus, these come with extra set of pads!


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  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbiker View Post
    This thread 1st got me interested in these brakes. Iíve read a lot of other reviews and I donít think I saw any negatives except the bite point adjustment, which for my use seems to be perfect.

    These replaced Shimano XT 4 pot brakes with shimano 203mm Rotors front and rear. No problem whatís so ever with these. I needed brakes for another build Iím doing, so I upgraded to these for my main ride.

    I reused the Shimano 203mm rotors without any issues. Installation was pretty easy and bleeding using the 2 syringes method was a piece of cake.

    I was able to get the lever engagement exactly were I wanted it and no matter how steep the downhills, the brakes engagement stayed the same. Power in my opinion is right there with some of the strongest contenders out there Iíve tried: Saints, TRP and Codes.

    Iím impressed with these brakes and a nice added bonus, these come with extra set of pads!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I just pulled the trigger on a set of these too. They should arrive by Friday. I hope they live up to the hype. I bought the Hayes rotors too to make sure to give them the fairest shake.

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbiker View Post
    This thread 1st got me interested in these brakes. Iíve read a lot of other reviews and I donít think I saw any negatives except the bite point adjustment, which for my use seems to be perfect.

    These replaced Shimano XT 4 pot brakes with shimano 203mm Rotors front and rear. No problem whatís so ever with these. I needed brakes for another build Iím doing, so I upgraded to these for my main ride.

    I reused the Shimano 203mm rotors without any issues. Installation was pretty easy and bleeding using the 2 syringes method was a piece of cake.

    I was able to get the lever engagement exactly were I wanted it and no matter how steep the downhills, the brakes engagement stayed the same. Power in my opinion is right there with some of the strongest contenders out there Iíve tried: Saints, TRP and Codes.

    Iím impressed with these brakes and a nice added bonus, these come with extra set of pads!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I had this problem initially, but I know how to deal with it.
    The reason why it was happening: dry pistons not retracting properly or pads not being aligned with the rotor. Easy fix.
    The brakes are great. The lightest actuation in the industry. Lots of power.
    Last edited by jazzanova; 04-20-2020 at 09:11 AM.

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal-Rider View Post
    I just pulled the trigger on a set of these too. They should arrive by Friday. I hope they live up to the hype. I bought the Hayes rotors too to make sure to give them the fairest shake.
    SoCal, I did the steep trails in Aliso Woods and these brakes worked flawless. Good choice for brakes!

  28. #428
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    I've had these brakes for about two weeks now, done 7 rides with them. Very impressed so far. Really not much to say, I can't complain about anything... so boring.

    During the bed in process with the metallic pads and new Hayes rotors they made horrible noises when I pulled the lever too hard before they were fully bed in, which took longer than I am used to (I did two shuttle laps down a 600' road descent). Once that was complete though it was good, and they were silent except for a small amount of noise with very light braking and very low speeds. Even that is gone now. Like I said, boring brakes.

    The dual bleed ports and the caliper alignment thing is really cool.

    The brakes are very strong.

    Compared to a non-servo wave XTR brake, the lever isn't as firm but the power is like quadruple so I don't really notice when I'm actually riding. Lever feels about the same stiffness as most other brakes, like a good Code RSC.

    There is quite a bit of free stroke, but the pads start moving nearly instantly. All the free stroke must be seal rollback, which is good in that it keeps the pads from rubbing but it means you can't really get rid of it if you want brakes that engage instantly (but then it would also be rubbing all the time). The Hayes guy said in some podcast that the more leverage you have the more free stroke you get in terms of mm of lever travel at the tip so it all makes sense.

    In the box was a bleed block and both pad compounds. Thank you Hayes for including both pads and the bleed block!

  29. #429
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    Has anyone tried the Dominion A2's yet? I've had 2 sets of Dominion A4's and love them. Best brakes I've ever owned!

    Considering some A2's on a lighter XC-ish build.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Has anyone tried the Dominion A2's yet? I've had 2 sets of Dominion A4's and love them. Best brakes I've ever owned!

    Considering some A2's on a lighter XC-ish build.
    Hayes website specs state the A4 is only 7g heavier than the A2 (310g vs 303g). Why bother? If nothing else youíd have to deal with a different set of pads in your spares.

  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Has anyone tried the Dominion A2's yet? I've had 2 sets of Dominion A4's and love them. Best brakes I've ever owned!

    Considering some A2's on a lighter XC-ish build.
    I have the A2s on a SB100 with 7" rotors and they work great. After having A4s for about a year I cannot see riding anything other than Dominion Brakes.

  32. #432
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    Just finished up a fat bike build. Taken a long time to finish it but have put on about 300 miles. I purchased a set of a4s over a year ago, just now getting to use them. They are so good. So smooth and powerful. Another brake set would have to really be fantastic for me to want to use something else. I am a hayes brake man now.

  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal-Rider View Post
    Hayes website specs state the A4 is only 7g heavier than the A2 (310g vs 303g). Why bother? If nothing else youíd have to deal with a different set of pads in your spares.
    that was my assessment exactly.

    if/when I replace the Guide T's on my 13 y/o son's bike I will buy the A4. first of all, he rides a 160/150mm travel bike, and he's going very nearly as fast as me downhill so it's totally justified to use the A4 over the A2 anyway.

  34. #434
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    Sorry, I read through maybe 80 posts before I gave up looking. How are people finding these brakes get along with 1.8 mm rotors? I have Centerlock hubs, and nearly new XTR and Formula CL rotors on hand, so I want.my brakes to work well with these rotors. My hope is that 1.8mm rotors would work as long as they are tossed before they get worn down very far...

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin83 View Post
    I've got DT Swiss centerlock hubs and went with DT's centerlock to 6 bolt adapter. No issues, light weight compared to the Shimano adapter, simple to install, and you can use the proper rotors.
    Well shoot, sounds like this would need to be the solution.

  36. #436
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    I started with nearly new XT rotors and then switched to Hayes rotors. Big improvement. Dead stroke was much bigger with Shimano rotors. I have Centerlock hubs so I wasn't happy to go with 6-bolt rotors using adapters, but it was worth IMO.

  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    I have Centerlock hubs, and nearly new XTR and Formula CL rotors on hand, so I want.my brakes to work well with these rotors.
    Yes, your new brakes will work perfectly fine with these rotors. Dead stroke is the result of pad retraction. I can assure you that the pads retract exactly the same for the Hayes, Shimano, and Formula rotors.

    Just stay away from Shimano's Freeza rotors. There's insufficient clearance between the heat sinks and the caliper.

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice-Bear View Post
    I have the A2s on a SB100 with 7" rotors and they work great. After having A4s for about a year I cannot see riding anything other than Dominion Brakes.
    So true - I wonít get any other brakes. I looked to maybe get some A2ís but Hayes lists them as only 7g lighter per assembly.

    A4ís are just amazing. You know a brake set is good when you ride and never even have to think about them.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    So true - I wonít get any other brakes. I looked to maybe get some A2ís but Hayes lists them as only 7g lighter per assembly.

    A4ís are just amazing. You know a brake set is good when you ride and never even have to think about them.
    Yeah it'd be nice if they could lighten the A2 up a bit.

    I really like the feel of the Radar they made for a few years and think that'd make a great kids brake. But the Radar lever doesn't fit small hands like the Dominion SFL ones do.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    NSMB Reviews are up: https://nsmb.com/articles/hayes-domi...-brake-review/

    Interesting review, one tester loved the sintered metallic pads, the other the semi-metallic.

    Cam McRae's comment on preferring deeper hook levers makes me wonder if he'd like the J-Unit SFL lever blades. I have a set here I need to photograph beside the normal levers to show the differences.
    Hi, can you share some comparison between the regular and the SFL levers? Thanks.

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlybirdman View Post
    Hi, can you share some comparison between the regular and the SFL levers? Thanks.
    Seems like the SFL lever just extends inward towards the bar, and also shorter lever, correct?

  42. #442
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    Hi, a stupid newbie question as have not installed hydraulic brakes to a frame with internal routing before (about to install the Dominions on an Ibis Ripley 4 frame): I assume I cut the rear brake hose close to the lever and feed through the frame from rear - but do I have to worry about DOT fluid drops possibly leaking into the frame while feeding the cut hose through it? Thanks!

  43. #443
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    Yes, it will drip. Easiest thing to do is to plug the line with a nail or something.

  44. #444
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    I have ordered a pair of dominions but am having trouble getting a hold of a bleed kit. Will a SRAM bleed kit work with the Hayes? Any other options that have worked well. Looks like you just need a screw in attachment.

  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headoc View Post
    I have ordered a pair of dominions but am having trouble getting a hold of a bleed kit. Will a SRAM bleed kit work with the Hayes? Any other options that have worked well. Looks like you just need a screw in attachment.
    Yes SRAM uses the same M5 bleed fittings.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headoc View Post
    Will a SRAM bleed kit work with the Hayes? Any other options that have worked well. Looks like you just need a screw in attachment.
    Although the thread pitch is the same, the Hayes caliper requires a fitting with a longer reach. I have a couple "Amazon" bleed kits, one of which has the long-reach fittings. They drip a little, so I need to be careful.

    You can go cheap, like I did, and endure the added frustration, or buy the correct kit at Jenson for $32.99. I JUST bled my brakes last week, so I won't need to do it again for six months. I think next time around I'll try out the Hayes kit and see how it does.

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    Thanks guys. Ironically I set up the front brake without any problems and the pre-bleed from Hayes was just about perfect. Cut the rear brake hose and ran it through the frame plugged. Hooked up to the lever only spilling a tiny amount of DOT fluid. Hooked everything up and they feel just perfect at the bar. Both brakes equal and firm, not spongy at all. Will bed them in tomorrow and see. Think I can hold off until I get a hold of a Hayes bleed kit. Regardless these things are incredible just right off the bat. Don't know what Hayes did to get piston movement with that light of a lever action but damn its pretty sweet. Can't wait to ride this weekend.

  48. #448
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    Yes that lever action and silky smooth feel. And a boatload of power. I luv em.

  49. #449
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Iíve had these brakes a month or so now and Iím in the same position [mention]jazzanova [/mention] seemed to be with his Dominions at one point. Iíve been fighting the wandering bite point since day 1. Seems like after every downhill I need to adjust the levers a little bit one way or the other.

    Iím now on a bike trip to southern Utah and itís been brake drama almost every ride. Howling front brake on the first ride so I changed the front pads and wiped the rotor with alcohol for the next ride. Ok for a few miles then howling again. Changed the front rotor and it went away. Ok Iíll chalk it up to something getting on the rotor during the drive. Not the brakes fault but still annoying.

    Next dayís ride and get caught in a downpour on the drive to the TH. During the ride the levers start squeaking loudly with every pull. Lubed them up back at the truck and squeak is gone. Again not really a fault with the brakes, but nobody elseís Shimanos squeaked.

    Finally had a relatively drama free last ride but still had to adjust the levers a bit. Rear brake is maxed out on + adjustment at this point. I really donít feel like bleeding them in the campground, so Iím hoping it stabilizes.

    Before the trip I did the piston reset multiple times to lube the seals/pistons. Bled the rear again and got quite a few bubbles out. Fronts seemed ok, so didnít bleed them. After this on the stand and a quick parking lot test, the brakes felt great. No mushy lever. Bite point perfect. I was optimistic I was all set for the trip.

    At this time Iím frustrated with the Dominions but not giving up just yet. Iíll work on bleeding them thoroughly again when I get home. Maybe I somehow didnít get all the air out even though I cycled the syringes a bunch and did both caliper ports. (I am using the bleed block and fresh Hayes fluid.) For the brief moments these brakes work correctly they feel great, so Iím hoping thereís a light at the end of this tunnel.

  50. #450
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    I will say this - you have to bleed Dominions very thoroughly and should follow Hayesí procedure to a tee. Donít skip the caliper bleed either. Trust me once you do youíll be glad. I tried to bleed them too quickly once and had issues with the lever feel. You need a good bleed. Once I did that, solid as a rock.

    PS - One small trick I did for the rear because of the longer length of hose was use the thin side of the red plastic pad spacer when bleeding. Donít use the rotor as the ďspacerĒ.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  51. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal-Rider View Post
    Iíve had these brakes a month or so now and Iím in the same position [mention]jazzanova [/mention] seemed to be with his Dominions at one point. Iíve been fighting the wandering bite point since day 1. Seems like after every downhill I need to adjust the levers a little bit one way or the other.

    Iím now on a bike trip to southern Utah and itís been brake drama almost every ride. Howling front brake on the first ride so I changed the front pads and wiped the rotor with alcohol for the next ride. Ok for a few miles then howling again. Changed the front rotor and it went away. Ok Iíll chalk it up to something getting on the rotor during the drive. Not the brakes fault but still annoying.

    Next dayís ride and get caught in a downpour on the drive to the TH. During the ride the levers start squeaking loudly with every pull. Lubed them up back at the truck and squeak is gone. Again not really a fault with the brakes, but nobody elseís Shimanos squeaked.

    Finally had a relatively drama free last ride but still had to adjust the levers a bit. Rear brake is maxed out on + adjustment at this point. I really donít feel like bleeding them in the campground, so Iím hoping it stabilizes.

    Before the trip I did the piston reset multiple times to lube the seals/pistons. Bled the rear again and got quite a few bubbles out. Fronts seemed ok, so didnít bleed them. After this on the stand and a quick parking lot test, the brakes felt great. No mushy lever. Bite point perfect. I was optimistic I was all set for the trip.

    At this time Iím frustrated with the Dominions but not giving up just yet. Iíll work on bleeding them thoroughly again when I get home. Maybe I somehow didnít get all the air out even though I cycled the syringes a bunch and did both caliper ports. (I am using the bleed block and fresh Hayes fluid.) For the brief moments these brakes work correctly they feel great, so Iím hoping thereís a light at the end of this tunnel.
    SoCAl-Rider you definitely still have air in the system. When you get back from your trip, call me and I'll give you a hand on the bleed.

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbiker View Post
    SoCAl-Rider you definitely still have air in the system. When you get back from your trip, call me and I'll give you a hand on the bleed.
    Thx. Iíll give you a call when I get back.

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal-Rider View Post
    Iíve had these brakes a month or so now and Iím in the same position [mention]jazzanova [/mention] seemed to be with his Dominions at one point. Iíve been fighting the wandering bite point since day 1. Seems like after every downhill I need to adjust the levers a little bit one way or the other.

    Iím now on a bike trip to southern Utah and itís been brake drama almost every ride. Howling front brake on the first ride so I changed the front pads and wiped the rotor with alcohol for the next ride. Ok for a few miles then howling again. Changed the front rotor and it went away. Ok Iíll chalk it up to something getting on the rotor during the drive. Not the brakes fault but still annoying.

    Next dayís ride and get caught in a downpour on the drive to the TH. During the ride the levers start squeaking loudly with every pull. Lubed them up back at the truck and squeak is gone. Again not really a fault with the brakes, but nobody elseís Shimanos squeaked.

    Finally had a relatively drama free last ride but still had to adjust the levers a bit. Rear brake is maxed out on + adjustment at this point. I really donít feel like bleeding them in the campground, so Iím hoping it stabilizes.

    Before the trip I did the piston reset multiple times to lube the seals/pistons. Bled the rear again and got quite a few bubbles out. Fronts seemed ok, so didnít bleed them. After this on the stand and a quick parking lot test, the brakes felt great. No mushy lever. Bite point perfect. I was optimistic I was all set for the trip.

    At this time Iím frustrated with the Dominions but not giving up just yet. Iíll work on bleeding them thoroughly again when I get home. Maybe I somehow didnít get all the air out even though I cycled the syringes a bunch and did both caliper ports. (I am using the bleed block and fresh Hayes fluid.) For the brief moments these brakes work correctly they feel great, so Iím hoping thereís a light at the end of this tunnel.
    Did you exercise the pistons?
    I solved my problem with cleaning and lubricating them. I have to do it regularly in order to keep them working properly. Not a big deal, it's an easy precudure.
    If you have the Hayes bleed kit use the one side block, which let's you retract the pistons on one side to clean and lubricate.
    Exercise them several times to make sure they move out freely without hesitation.
    This has always solved the wandering point of engagement for me.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal-Rider View Post
    Iíve had these brakes a month or so now and Iím in the same position [mention]jazzanova [/mention] seemed to be with his Dominions at one point. Iíve been fighting the wandering bite point since day 1. Seems like after every downhill I need to adjust the levers a little bit one way or the other.

    Iím now on a bike trip to southern Utah and itís been brake drama almost every ride. Howling front brake on the first ride so I changed the front pads and wiped the rotor with alcohol for the next ride. Ok for a few miles then howling again. Changed the front rotor and it went away. Ok Iíll chalk it up to something getting on the rotor during the drive. Not the brakes fault but still annoying.

    Next dayís ride and get caught in a downpour on the drive to the TH. During the ride the levers start squeaking loudly with every pull. Lubed them up back at the truck and squeak is gone. Again not really a fault with the brakes, but nobody elseís Shimanos squeaked.

    Finally had a relatively drama free last ride but still had to adjust the levers a bit. Rear brake is maxed out on + adjustment at this point. I really donít feel like bleeding them in the campground, so Iím hoping it stabilizes.

    Before the trip I did the piston reset multiple times to lube the seals/pistons. Bled the rear again and got quite a few bubbles out. Fronts seemed ok, so didnít bleed them. After this on the stand and a quick parking lot test, the brakes felt great. No mushy lever. Bite point perfect. I was optimistic I was all set for the trip.

    At this time Iím frustrated with the Dominions but not giving up just yet. Iíll work on bleeding them thoroughly again when I get home. Maybe I somehow didnít get all the air out even though I cycled the syringes a bunch and did both caliper ports. (I am using the bleed block and fresh Hayes fluid.) For the brief moments these brakes work correctly they feel great, so Iím hoping thereís a light at the end of this tunnel.
    honest question - how many times, previous to installing the Dominion A4 set, have you installed all-new brakes including cutting hoses and bleeding them? 100% your effort as you've done this time, no involvement from anyone else.

    I ask this because I could have written your very post 10 years ago. I had the same experiences with magura and shimano brakes at that time. there are particular things to do in order to bleed a brake well, and there are some key differences between different models, and it's pretty easy to end up with an improperly bled system.

    even with a lot more experience, I still didn't have a perfect bleed initially with my Dominions. I posted about that here, over a year ago. since then I've re-bled the system once, after replacing the pads a second time.

    do you have a friend who can help? 2 sets of eyes and hands can make a difference. or do you have a local bike shop you trust? it shouldn't matter that they are not 'main' brand brakes; being DOT, they're similar enough to SRAM and every shop has sold bikes with Guide and Level brakes, and worked on them.

  55. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Did you exercise the pistons?
    I solved my problem with cleaning and lubricating them. I have to do it regularly in order to keep them working properly. Not a big deal, it's an easy precudure.
    If you have the Hayes bleed kit use the one side block, which let's you retract the pistons on one side to clean and lubricate.
    Exercise them several times to make sure they move out freely without hesitation.
    This has always solved the wandering point of engagement for me.
    I did exercise the front and rear pistons using the opp. side of the bleed block. Easy enough to do and I was really hoping that would be the cure. Your posts inspired me to do that just before bled the rear before my trip.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    honest question - how many times, previous to installing the Dominion A4 set, have you installed all-new brakes including cutting hoses and bleeding them? 100% your effort as you've done this time, no involvement from anyone else.

    I ask this because I could have written your very post 10 years ago. I had the same experiences with magura and shimano brakes at that time. there are particular things to do in order to bleed a brake well, and there are some key differences between different models, and it's pretty easy to end up with an improperly bled system.

    even with a lot more experience, I still didn't have a perfect bleed initially with my Dominions. I posted about that here, over a year ago. since then I've re-bled the system once, after replacing the pads a second time.

    do you have a friend who can help? 2 sets of eyes and hands can make a difference. or do you have a local bike shop you trust? it shouldn't matter that they are not 'main' brand brakes; being DOT, they're similar enough to SRAM and every shop has sold bikes with Guide and Level brakes, and worked on them.
    Fair enough question. Iíve run Shimano exclusively for 10 years and have set them up with cut lines, bleeding, etc. These are my first DOT brakes bleeding with dual syringes. Iím willing to concede maybe I just didnít do a thorough enough bleed. Mtbbiker has offered to give me a hand so maybe heíll show me something I missed.

  57. #457
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    also, in regards to squealing brakes, make sure your rotor is true (which pretty much none of them are, by the time they get to you) and be aware that the sintered metal pads are installed by default. they have the most strength and especially fade resistance, but they will squeal more than the semi-metallic. unlike any other brake I've ever bought, the Dominion comes with both, so you can remove the sintered and install the semi-metallic for less noise.

  58. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    also, in regards to squealing brakes, make sure your rotor is true (which pretty much none of them are, by the time they get to you) and be aware that the sintered metal pads are installed by default. they have the most strength and especially fade resistance, but they will squeal more than the semi-metallic. unlike any other brake I've ever bought, the Dominion comes with both, so you can remove the sintered and install the semi-metallic for less noise.
    Regarding squealing, in my case it was more of a resonance/vibration from what mustíve been some contamination on the rotor. Edit: And as Iím typing this, it got me thinking I might have got some tree sap on the rotor. Iíve been riding in the junipers in SW Utah. I recall having some sap here and there in spots on my bike and gear.

    I run the semi-metallic pads and get the occasional slight squeal, but then it goes away. No big deal.

  59. #459
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    IME even a tiny bit of contamination from brake fluid will make a rotor squeal interminably under hard braking and of course lose power. I've many times been extremely careful after a bleed to really clean everything up but it still seems all to often that after a bleed I get bad squealing and poor power and hte only solution is new brake pads.

    So yeah, from what I've seen it doesn't take much to ruin a set and have a squealing pig that has very little pad friction. I've heard you can bake it out but I've never tried it as I do have a bad tendency to throw money at my problems.

  60. #460
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    If I get brake fluid on newish pads I'd grind them on a grinding stone per hand or a sandpaper, clean with brake cleaner and after 1 longer downhill they work again. Also clean rotors ofc.
    May not be like new pads but still don't have to throw them away

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  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preston67 View Post
    IME even a tiny bit of contamination from brake fluid will make a rotor squeal interminably under hard braking and of course lose power. I've many times been extremely careful after a bleed to really clean everything up but it still seems all to often that after a bleed I get bad squealing and poor power and hte only solution is new brake pads.

    So yeah, from what I've seen it doesn't take much to ruin a set and have a squealing pig that has very little pad friction. I've heard you can bake it out but I've never tried it as I do have a bad tendency to throw money at my problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by romulin View Post
    If I get brake fluid on newish pads I'd grind them on a grinding stone per hand or a sandpaper, clean with brake cleaner and after 1 longer downhill they work again. Also clean rotors ofc.
    May not be like new pads but still don't have to throw them away

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    Brake fluid is water soluable. Boiling the pads in a pot of water is a good way to get it out. I haven't had any luck with other methods (washing, heat etc) but boiling works great.

    Heat and cleaners work great for oil contamination.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  62. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Brake fluid is water soluable. Boiling the pads in a pot of water is a good way to get it out. I haven't had any luck with other methods (washing, heat etc) but boiling works great.

    Heat and cleaners work great for oil contamination.
    Interesting tip to boil the pads. Will have to try that.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  63. #463
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    Related question would there be any issue or disadvantages to running the Hayes Dominion 1.95mm rotor on a Sram setup?

  64. #464
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    Not sure on Sram but it works fine on Shimano. The only possible downside is when you have brand new pads there might be too much rub until they wear. But again, using Shimano brakes I've never had a problem.

    OTOH I haven't noticed much difference with the thicker rotors, but they can't hurt.
    (better heat management, less warping, less noise would be what I"d like to see)

  65. #465
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    I did some searching around the answer seems like it should work, but no mention of rubbing. There also seems to be mxied reviews on better heat management, though it should should be a little harder to warp.

  66. #466
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    Just gotta say - the ďcross-hairĒ adjustment (set screw) on the Dominion calipers is simple brilliant and a godsend for really trueing up your calipers. I hope they continue implementing that feature on future brakes.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


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    I changed the frame and had to rebleed the rear brake because of the internally routed brake hose.

    Manitou suggests to use another handlerbar at 45 degrees where you attach the lever during bleeding. With internally routed brake hose that will be quite complicated.

    But you can just rotate handlebars 90 degrees and rise the front end of the bike. Fixed the handlebars with so they wont rotate. Much simpler.

    Also the caliper needs to be vertically, so I just hanged it from seatpost using tape. It was easy bleed.

    PS. One lever started to squeak when I release it. What's the cure?

  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    PS. One lever started to squeak when I release it. What's the cure?
    Use the universal antianysqueak cure : oil



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    Quote Originally Posted by romulin View Post
    Use the universal antianysqueak cure : oil
    I agree with this. I had one lever start to make noise after a whole lot of hours.

    I put some thick lube on it- I used a wet conditions chain lube. If you use something thin (WD-40 is abyssmal) it will quickly migrate out. It's probably supposed to be greased, maybe Dougal has a suggestion, but I haven't had any recurrence.

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    FYI. The thick Dominion hose fits through my Yeti SB100 frame internal routing tunnels just fine. Yes, it is a snug fit, but still pushes through just fine.

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    FYI. The HOPE adapter fits the A4 calipers, 160-203 post mount version.

  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlybirdman View Post
    FYI. The thick Dominion hose fits through my Yeti SB100 frame internal routing tunnels just fine. Yes, it is a snug fit, but still pushes through just fine.
    It was a tight fit on my Tallboy as well but it went in.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  73. #473
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    I just recently replaced my Shimano rotors with Sram Centerline rotors front 220mm and rear 200mm. I'm running sintered pads. The front took 2 hard rides to get the pads bedded in. The rear just took two downhill runs to bed in. I've never experienced this before, I'm thinking it must be the sintered pads. But now with them bedded in, the power is incredible and smooth!

  74. #474
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    If anyone is looking, I just posted a barely ridden pair on Pinkbike.

  75. #475
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    Hayes are back. Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbiker View Post
    I just recently replaced my Shimano rotors with Sram Centerline rotors front 220mm and rear 200mm. I'm running sintered pads. The front took 2 hard rides to get the pads bedded in. The rear just took two downhill runs to bed in. I've never experienced this before, I'm thinking it must be the sintered pads. But now with them bedded in, the power is incredible and smooth!
    I ran a set with Shimano XT rotors and my latest set with the D-series Hayes rotors. I gotta say the brakes feel better with the Hayes rotors. They are slightly thicker at 1.9 mm. Zero bedding in issues and it was quick.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    If anyone is looking, I just posted a barely ridden pair on Pinkbike.
    Well dang it after 4 months of dithering I just ordered a set full retail last night

  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    If anyone is looking, I just posted a barely ridden pair on Pinkbike.
    I might.
    Why are you selling and where are they located?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  78. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I might.
    Why are you selling and where are they located?

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    Colorado. I used them while waiting for a warrantied set to get fixed.

  79. #479
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    Brake Pad Observation:

    After getting my Dominion A4's, I first ran the Semi-Metallics. They were great. I got 466 miles on the pads before replacement. I'm in Socal, where we have little mud, little water, and a lot of dust. I'm somewhat aggressive in style. They're not dragged, but they're hit hard.

    The second set of pads were Sintered. Performance was also great. There's a little bit of noise after going through the occasional stream. Now they're making a little noise when slammed hard on extended downhills, so I'm looking forward to replacing them with Semi-Metallics. There's still enough material left for a couple hundred more miles of riding, so I checked my log sheet. I have 849 miles on these babies! Holy moley. I've never before seen that kind of milage on pads.

    The Sintered are definitely down for the long haul. I like Semi's better, but I'm really impressed with the longevity of the Sintered.

  80. #480
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    been riding my new Dominions for a few weeks now.

    Overall impression is I have found my go to brake system.

    My brakes have been either Saint, 4 piston XT, Magura MT7 and MT7 with Shimano levers.

    Overall impressions are the MT7 and Hayes have equivalent power which is higher than Saints/XT.

    Hayes have the best modulation by far although I've never had a problem with the others, but it IS better with Hayes.

    I don't love the Hayes lever, its a little flat and bulky, very much prefer the shape of the Shimano lever but the Hayes is a bit softer to pull and easy to control.

    Biggest win with the Hayes is the pad rollback, I seem to have a lot more problem than other people with warped rotors and dragging brakes, with the MT7's being so poor I moved them to my DH bike despite loving the brakes (with shimano levers). coming off a muddy ride with lots of braking and the wheels spin free.

    I love the grub screws to align the caliper.

    never even tried the semi-metallics, went straight to sintered. One weird thing I haven't heard mentioned is if you take a short break on a downhill, they will squeal when you restart until they heat up again. Not a big deal but I've never had another brake do this. They must develope a slight glaze, braking power seems unaffected though.

    I haven't had them on a super long downhill (Martha Creek !). The Saints never failed ore really lost effectiveness, but they do start to make noise and feel funky. Based on what I've ridden so far though I have a lot of confidence they will handle anything. For the record the MT7's never got wonky either.

    Everyone says the wandering bite point problem with Shimano's is in the lever/MC not the caliper, but I've had very little problems with wandering bite point on the Shigura setup. Hayes have been absolutely rock solid in that dept, and the levers are easy to adjust. I cut and bled the line without too much problem either although you have to buy the "Pro bleed kit" so that's extra dollars.

    Anyway I see I am kind of rambling, point is I'm very happy with these brakes and expect to stick with them.

  81. #481
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    Question is whether they would work fine with 1.75 mm thick Shimano rotors.

    Wanted to try just 1 for the front, to see how they compare vs. my 4-pot XTR Trail (BR-M9120) in terms of power and feeling.

    Might then completely switch to them.

    The thing is I have Center Lock DT Swiss wheels. So I'm stuck with Shimano rotors. I have adapters to 6 screws that came with the wheels, but don't want to use any adapters + it won't look nice anymore.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  82. #482
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    I see there is also a SFL version of the levers that are shorter than non-SFL.
    I'm used to Shimano levers, since I have them in their current shape since like 2012.

    So SFL levers might be better then, for me?

    Also do SFL (shorter) levers lower the leverage or are SFL levers shaped slightly different to not lower the leverage?

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    The thing is I have Center Lock DT Swiss wheels. So I'm stuck with Shimano rotors.
    Yes, Shimano center lock rotors will be fine... EXCEPT for Freeza's. The Hayes caliper will interfere with the aluminum fin on the rotor.

    You CAN run regular Ice-Tech rotors. That's what I'm running now. You can also run the traditional stainless rotors. Frankly, I can't tell the difference between the two.

  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    I see there is also a SFL version of the levers that are shorter than non-SFL.
    I'm used to Shimano levers, since I have them in their current shape since like 2012.

    So SFL levers might be better then, for me?

    Also do SFL (shorter) levers lower the leverage or are SFL levers shaped slightly different to not lower the leverage?
    The SFL levers are not just shorter in length, but mainly it extends from the pivot towards the bar more, so kids with short fingers can reach better. The one thing I find with my Dominion is that at full lever pull, the lever comes closer to the bar than other brakes (Shimano Servo Wave, SRAM SwingLink, TRP Quadiem), so the SFL would exacerbate this situation.

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    Yes, Shimano center lock rotors will be fine... EXCEPT for Freeza's. The Hayes caliper will interfere with the aluminum fin on the rotor.
    I have Freeza rotors...
    Where I live, my 4-pot XTR Trail are more than enough.
    But wanted to try something else, with more gradual power rampup, smoother/easier lever actuation and even more power than I have now.
    96 kg gear and bike not included.

    Maybe not a good idea after all, since I will have to change the rotors then (my RT-MT900 are almost new) and I have all the tools and 2 bottles of oil to bleed Shimano.
    Quote Originally Posted by onlybirdman View Post
    The SFL levers are not just shorter in length, but mainly it extends from the pivot towards the bar more, so kids with short fingers can reach better. The one thing I find with my Dominion is that at full lever pull, the lever comes closer to the bar than other brakes (Shimano Servo Wave, SRAM SwingLink, TRP Quadiem), so the SFL would exacerbate this situation.
    So you have SFL or regular ones?

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
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  86. #486
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    Have found an interesting post on a german forum, where a really technically inclined guy has made a ranking list of top brakes, based on their power.

    https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/form...#post-15605449

    Tr!ckstuff Maxima, Tr!ckstuff Direttissima, Tr!ckstuff Piccola, Tr!ckstuff Piccola HD
    Hayes Dominion A4 (regular levers), Magura MT5/7 (2-finger levers and stock/HC3 levers)
    Formula Cura 4/2, SRAM Code, Shimano Saint, Hope Tech 3 V4

    and also a mix of a lot of levers and calipers.
    Trimula = Tr!ckstuff levers with Formula calipers
    MXA = Tr!ckstuff Maxima levers
    DRT
    = with Tr!ckstuff Direttissima levers
    PCA = with Tr!ckstuff Piccola levers
    Trigura = Tr!ckstuff levers with Magura calipers
    Tripe = Tr!ckstuff levers with Hope calipers
    Trimano = Tr!ickstuff levers with Shimano calipers

    Tr!ckstuff, Formula, Magura and Shimano are on mineral oil.
    Hayes and Hope are on DOT.


    on place 11 you can also see 2-pot options (22 mm) from Shimano, Hope, Tr!ckstuff and Magura with Tr!ckstuff Direttissima levers

    He also says that differences between place 2 and 3, as well as between 7 - 10 are so small that they can be partially ignored.

    Hayes Dominion A4 are the most powerful out of the box, without mixing their calipers or levers with other brands offers.
    (if one doesn't consider stock Tr!ckstuff Maxima brakes from Ä 1100)

    - 2-pot Formula Cura 2 with Tr!ckstuff Direttissima levers are on par with stock 4-pot Shimano Saint )
    - Magura MT5/7 with Shimano levers are more powerful than with stock/HC3 Magura levers, but not as powerful as with 2-finger Magura levers
    - 2-pot calipers from Shimano, Hope and Magura but with Tr!ckstuff Direttissima levers are more powerful than stock 4-pot Magura MT5/7
    - stock Formula Cura 4 and SRAM Code (9) are imperceptibly more powerful than Magura MT5/7 calipers with Shimano levers (10)
    - Shimano Saint with Tr!ckstuff Diretissima levers (7) are imperceptibly more powerful than Hayes Dominion A4 (8), Formula Cura 4, SRAM Code (9) and Shigura (10)
    - 4-pot Magura MT5/7, Hope Tech 3 V4 and 2-pot Formula Cura 2 with Tr!ckstuff Direttissima levers (4) are more powerful than stock Hayes Dominion A4 (8)
    - Formula Cura 4 with Tr!ckstuff Piccola (2) or Direttissima (1) levers are the most powerful of all brakes available
    - Formula Cura 4 would have been even more powerful with Tr!ckstuff Maxima levers than with Piccola or Diretissima levers, but they're not sold separately, but only as part of a full set of Maxima brakes

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  87. #487
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    I have regular levers.

  88. #488
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    onlybirdman, but what about adjusting both levers so their initial position is further away from the bar, so when you pull, they don't come as close to the bar?
    Or will this then be too far to grab them (properly) or more fatigue in long/steep descents?

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
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  89. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    I might try a new 203mm adapter on the rear some day just for experiment's sake but honestly I kinda like saving a few grams for no drawback 
    Hi! Did you have a chance to try different adapter? I have a similar problem (https://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/h...n-1148247.html) and the workaround was to remove the adapter and go from 180mm disc to 160mm.

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    Hi! Did you have a chance to try different adapter? I have a similar problem (https://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/h...n-1148247.html) and the workaround was to remove the adapter and go from 180mm disc to 160mm.
    From memory he went from a 203mm rotor to a 180mm and the problem went away.

    I had the same issue on my Bergamont, the rear stays were too flexy and would turn into a tuning-fork with a 203mm rotor. I had to modify the mount to fit a 180mm and then it all went quiet.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  91. #491
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    Well, in my case what was interesting is that I only changed the front triangle of the bike and the problem appeared.

  92. #492
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    ...
    Last edited by Groove_c; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:12 AM.

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  93. #493
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    Formula Monolitic (Center Lock) rotors are 1.95 mm thick and pads contact area is 15 mm wide.
    Hayes rotors are also 1.95 mm thick and Dominion A4 pads are ~15 mm wide.

    So Formula Monolitic (Center Lock) rotors should be perfect for Dominion A4.
    No idea if any vibration or noise.

    No need for Hayes or other 6-bolt rotors + CL adapters.

    Using Shimano (non-Freeza) or SRAM rotors or rotors thinner than 1.95-2.0 mm is not optimal, since they're only 1.75-1.8 mm thick and pads contact area is just slightly wider than 14 mm.

    It results in worse lever feel (with new pads), since free stroke is much longer than with 1.95-2.0 mm rotors and brake force is lower, since less pads contact area (<15 mm) vs. 15-15.5 mm for Formula Monolitic (Center Lock), Hayes D, Magura Storm HC or Tr!ckstuff Daechle HD rotors.
    + the lever blade comes closer to the bar, beacause of thinner rotors.

    Pads worn out combined with thin rotors (Shimano/SRAM), lever feel and pistons retraction can be simply bad.
    So stick to 1.95-2.0 mm rotors for shortest possible free stroke and so pistons don't have to come out more than foreseen by manufacturer (Hayes).

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Use centerlock-6 bolt adapters. It's what I'm using for my Dominions. No fuss.
    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I started with Shimano XT Icetech rotors that are thinner than Hayes rotors. I hoped that pistons will auto-adjust to thinner rotors, but apparently that wasn't the case. Freestroke was still too long for my liking, I had too run levers far from bars in order to get sufficient stopping power. Yesterday I upgraded to Hayes rotors using Shimano Centerlock adapters. Pushed back the pistons, etc. The freestroke is now really minimal, I'm able to run levers closer to bar.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnarzt View Post
    My bike came with a DT Swiss wheelset and the hubs are centerlock. Currently there are new 180mm Shimano RT70 rotors installed on my wheels.

    I know the shimano rotors are a bit thin compared to the Hayes ones. Iíd rather not use 6 bolt adapters (seem like extra hassle and more things to go wrong) in order to run the Hayes D series rotors, are there other centerlock rotors that would be better than the ones I have?
    Quote Originally Posted by justin83 View Post
    I've got DT Swiss centerlock hubs and went with DT's centerlock to 6 bolt adapter. No issues, light weight compared to the Shimano adapter, simple to install, and you can use the proper rotors.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    I'd use adapters so I could run the rotors the brake was designed with. As well as width being a factor, noise & vibration is also a factor.
    Quote Originally Posted by RAG2 View Post
    Sorry, I read through maybe 80 posts before I gave up looking. How are people finding these brakes get along with 1.8 mm rotors? I have Centerlock hubs, and nearly new XTR and Formula CL rotors on hand, so I want.my brakes to work well with these rotors. My hope is that 1.8mm rotors would work as long as they are tossed before they get worn down very far...
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    I don't see the problem using Hayes rotors with Centerlock adapters on Centerlock hubs. That's what I do. Using another manufacturer's rotor is problematic unless you carefully research and match the width of the brake rack, diameter, and rotor thickness.
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    Hayes doesn't show centerlocks on their web page, so I decided to stick with my Shimano Freeza's. Nope. The calipers on the Dominions are pretty huge, and don't clear the aluminum fins on the Freeza's. Great. So off the shop I went, and came home with a couple regular Ice Tech's. That problem was solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    For future reference they seem to work fine with my ice-tech rotors with plenty of adjustment available. My existing adapters also worked, I'll get part numbers of them later.
    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Installed Dominions today with D series rotors
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-formula-monolitic-cl.jpg  


    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
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  94. #494
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    In an effort to save some money, I put TRP Slate brakes on my enduro bike. While they've been quite reliable, the power just isn't there for the steep and gnarly trails that I'm riding these days.

    I think it's time to pony up and get some brakes that will give enough power and save my poor cramping hands. It looks like the Dominions will be perfect for me. I'm not seeing much in the way of complaints here.

    If Preston likes them, then they're probably pretty damn good.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  95. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    In an effort to save some money, I put TRP Slate brakes on my enduro bike. While they've been quite reliable, the power just isn't there for the steep and gnarly trails that I'm riding these days.

    I think it's time to pony up and get some brakes that will give enough power and save my poor cramping hands. It looks like the Dominions will be perfect for me. I'm not seeing much in the way of complaints here.

    If Preston likes them, then they're probably pretty damn good.
    Hayes Dominions are great, you'll love them. However, don't forget that Trickstuff makes pads for Shimano Saints and compatible with TRP 4 piston brakes, including the Slate. Trickstuff 260 Power pads. That's probably the cheapest TRP upgrade. I got both Dominion and TRP Quadiem, and the Dominion is the one I love. Both are plenty powerful assuming you have the Trickstuff 260 Power pads on the TRP, but the Dominion has a fantastic feel that is superior.

  96. #496
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    If somebody has problems to find Hayes adapters, Magura are ok, like QM 26 or QM 44 for 203 mm.

    Also since Hayes makes the clamp for I-Spec EV/ Matchmaker X only for the right side, you can use Magura Shiftmix clamp for the left, to use there Rockshox Reverb dropper remote without additional clamp or Shimano or any other droppers remotes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-image1.jpg  

    Hayes are back.  Dominion 4 piston released at Eurobike.-image.jpg  


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  97. #497
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    Good tip, but I personally despise having shift and brake levers on a single clamp. it prevents you from customizing the reach between lever and shifter, as well as the angle of each.

  98. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    but I personally despise having shift and brake levers on a single clamp
    ???

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  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    ???
    I explained why right after. Or are you even asking why? I see this is for a dropper lever, same reason. I generally do not want my shift or dropper levers tied to the position and angle of the brake lever. Thus everything needs separate clamps.

    Is that what you meant to ask with your three question marks? If not... I don't know what it was.

  100. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I generally do not want my shift or dropper levers tied to the position and angle of the brake lever. Thus everything needs separate clamps.
    Actually you can move the shifter/dropper remote left/right and like 60į up/down on the same clamp.

    No need for separate clamps to be able to do this.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
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  101. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    Actually you can move the shifter/dropper remote left/right and like 60į up/down on the same clamp.

    No need for separate clamps to be able to do this.
    I had the brake/shifter hayes matchmaker, didn't work for me. Not enough adjustment range.

  102. #502
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    I'm still hesitating to try them out as front brake instead of my 4-pot XTR.
    Since I would need to buy Formula Monolitic (Center Lock) rotor (instead of my Shimano XTR Freeza rotor) + Magura 203 mm adapter (since Hayes adapters are out of stock in EU) + Magura Shiftmix clamps + DOT bottle.

    A lot of money to just see if it's worth the step or not.

    Not as nice as XTR, not as well thought clamps for shifters adjustements, no Servo-Wave = longer lever pull.
    But I'm somehow tempted to make the step, since power seems greater, along with modulation.

    Mineral oil or DOT, I don't care.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  103. #503
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    Well, I ordered a set for my bike. New rotors too since it seems my Shimano ones might be too thin.

    Now it appears I'll need adaptors for 180 rotors. That seems odd to me since I'd expect a strong 4-piston brake to be designed around 180+ rotors. The Dominion doesn't seem like an XC brake.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  104. #504
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    Surely that's a fork and frame issue? That's what determines the rotor size. I have one fork that has a 160mm post mount and another with 180mm. So it has nothing to do with the brake companies.

  105. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    I'm still hesitating to try them out as front brake instead of my 4-pot XTR.
    Since I would need to buy Formula Monolitic (Center Lock) rotor (instead of my Shimano XTR Freeza rotor) + Magura 203 mm adapter (since Hayes adapters are out of stock in EU) + Magura Shiftmix clamps + DOT bottle.

    A lot of money to just see if it's worth the step or not.

    Not as nice as XTR, not as well thought clamps for shifters adjustements, no Servo-Wave = longer lever pull.
    But I'm somehow tempted to make the step, since power seems greater, along with modulation.

    Mineral oil or DOT, I don't care.

    They're all great brakes at the end of the day. I'm glad I switched from Shimano to Hayes though. The long lever stroke was bothersome at first but I got used to it, and it is now a none issue. The feathery lever feel and modulation is the main reason I have no buyer's remorse. In fact, I've been contemplating getting a set of Dominion A2 to replace my TRP Quadiem.

  106. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    Surely that's a fork and frame issue? That's what determines the rotor size. I have one fork that has a 160mm post mount and another with 180mm. So it has nothing to do with the brake companies.
    Well, clearly I need more coffee today. Of course it's the fork/frame.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  107. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Well, clearly I need more coffee today. Of course it's the fork/frame.
    Don't sweat it. I'm on my third cup!

  108. #508
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    Had a big ride in the mountains on Saturday and a small ride in the foothills on Monday with the new brakes. The power and modulation were great for the most part on the stock organic pads. The 2,200' descent on Saturday though I felt I could use a bit more power on the steeper sections. I'll swap to the metallic pads this week and I'm pretty sure that will work awesome.

    I looked at the Hayes installation video and found that I didn't have the necessary tools for the job, so I had the LBS do the install. There seems to be a lot of freestroke with them.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  109. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Had a big ride in the mountains on Saturday and a small ride in the foothills on Monday with the new brakes. The power and modulation were great for the most part on the stock organic pads. The 2,200' descent on Saturday though I felt I could use a bit more power on the steeper sections. I'll swap to the metallic pads this week and I'm pretty sure that will work awesome.

    I looked at the Hayes installation video and found that I didn't have the necessary tools for the job, so I had the LBS do the install. There seems to be a lot of freestroke with them.
    Welcome to the select group of people riding the best brake available today.

    A couple of things. First and foremost, if your LBS had never set up Dominions before, they may not have done it right. With 2 bleed ports their setup is unique.

    Second. The lever does have a long range of travel but it starts moving the pistons fairly quickly, just in a very small amount, and with a lot of modulation. If you put it on a stand and spin the wheel then lightly grab the brake you can see and probably hear the piston starting to move pretty early in the lever travel. If there's a lot of take-up slack before you see/hear this, then it's likely they aren't bled properly.

    There's a big learning and familiarity curve to them if you're coming from Shimano because Shimano have very little lever stroke with which to modulate the brakes, and their initial power is very high. After you get used to riding the Dominion, you'll hate Shimano. I went through this years ago when I switched from Shimano to Magura. Magura to Dominion has a lot more in common.

  110. #510
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    I'm probably going to pick up a set here soon. I have a bunch of random brake bleeding parts left over from a dozen different older brake systems, Avid, TRP, Shimano, etc. Are the Hayes ports any different? Any reason I need to buy the "pro bleed kit" for another $40?

  111. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by ungod View Post
    I'm probably going to pick up a set here soon. I have a bunch of random brake bleeding parts left over from a dozen different older brake systems, Avid, TRP, Shimano, etc. Are the Hayes ports any different? Any reason I need to buy the "pro bleed kit" for another $40?
    The main reason for the bleed kit would be the bleed block, which allows to move the pistons just on 1 side = easy cleaning, lubing and exercising the pistons.
    I do it regularly in order to keep the free stroke to minimum. It's an easy and quick job.

  112. #512
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    I don't know what size the threads are on the Hayes M/C, and you can take your chances and and wait until they arrive to check, but my guess is that nothing is compatible between brands

    I've got a lot more riding on these Hayes now including big enough downhills that would have made my Saints "complain" (albeit still more or less work okay). The Hayes never change their bite point or grab, they work without complaint. And as time has gone on I've REALLY begun to appreciate the modulation. Didn't seem like a big deal at first but now I really like the feel. Still don't like the lever shape all that much, prefer the Shimano levers, but at least I don't have to bubble bleed them every 2 weeks and they are 100% consistent all the time. And most importantly, the wheels both spin free as a bird all the time with no drag. I've never had a disc brake I could truly say that after multiple rides.
    Only complain is what I mentioned before, when you heat them up, and then they cool off, they squeal upon use until they scrape off that glaze (30 seconds of trail riding if you're using your brakes, and it doesn't happen when they are cold).

    I haven't tried TRP or Diritessima (whatever) but I agree with the post above that they are the best brake choice on the market right now. and the copper color matches my Ransom 910 frame color perfectly. Wasn't that hot on the frame color when I bought the bike but now I love it, all because of these brakes ha.

  113. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by ungod View Post
    I'm probably going to pick up a set here soon. I have a bunch of random brake bleeding parts left over from a dozen different older brake systems, Avid, TRP, Shimano, etc. Are the Hayes ports any different? Any reason I need to buy the "pro bleed kit" for another $40?
    I've picked up an "universal" bleed kit cause I'm greedy. Works fine, has a few different tips so 2 of them fit. I think it's the same thread as sram.
    Why you want the Hayes kit is : on the caliper those bleed ports don't have much space around them, so you need a long tip for the syringe. The cheap kit only has one long , so regular bleed ok, caliper only bleed is a no go.
    You can see them in their bleed video

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  114. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Not enough adjustment range.
    I had the same experience when trying to combine clamps on previous bikes. So I decided to hell with it, separate clamps always works. Bars are wide enough nowadays that handlebar clutter isn't a problem.

    I don't understand the continued push for combined clamps, tbh.

    1.5yrs in on my Dominion A4's and I love them just as much as the day I installed them. Best brakes I've ever used. So consistent. So reliable. What's not to love?

  115. #515
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    Do different brake designs deal with heat better than others, assuming identical rotors?

    Why?

    I overheated some Maguras on an admittedly a steep/ long/ fast descent, but when I compare them to other brakes, most of the 'heat sink' difference is in the brakes, not the rotors. What I mean is the Magura brakes are lighter than Hayes, but the rotors themselves aren't much different in weight, and I would think that's where the ability to deal with extended heat would come from. Is there a difference between DOT & mineral oil or some other factor I'm not considering?

    PS. If I was buying new brakes they would be the Hayes as they appear to be the best out currently, but in reality they weigh 200+ grams more than my current set up and for aggressive trail riding, not sure I'd gain anything from any additional braking feel/ force in my daily riding conditions.

  116. #516
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    Not sure about the overheating and how different brands deal with it.

    However, to the point of gaining anything in buying these brakes, depending on what you are riding now, I would take the +200gm penalty for what these offer over any other brake I have run. I have not touched mine in a year, no weird sounds, no bleeding, they just work and work everytime, the same way as the time before and since new. That in itself is worth it to me, because I can deal with just about anything being a bit off on the bike, but having 100% trust in my brakes I have learned changes the way I ride and my confidence. Not that I had bad brakes before, but these are that good, the feel, the power. Once you accustom to it, it's almost like jedi mind power takes over and there is no thinking about them, braking is just an extension of your mind and you don't think about braking. For it being a "subtle" difference, the effect on riding is bigger than I would have thought.

  117. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I had the LBS do the install. There seems to be a lot of freestroke with them.
    Which rotors do you use?

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  118. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Do different brake designs deal with heat better than others, assuming identical rotors?

    Why?

    I overheated some Maguras on an admittedly a steep/ long/ fast descent, but when I compare them to other brakes, most of the 'heat sink' difference is in the brakes, not the rotors. What I mean is the Magura brakes are lighter than Hayes, but the rotors themselves aren't much different in weight, and I would think that's where the ability to deal with extended heat would come from. Is there a difference between DOT & mineral oil or some other factor I'm not considering?

    PS. If I was buying new brakes they would be the Hayes as they appear to be the best out currently, but in reality they weigh 200+ grams more than my current set up and for aggressive trail riding, not sure I'd gain anything from any additional braking feel/ force in my daily riding conditions.
    Yes there are massive differences in how brakes handle heat. I have been riding Hayes brakes for just over 20 years now and the Dominion is the first one that I haven't been able to turn an 8" rotor purple on. The Hayes brake engineers tell me the Dominion is twice as good at shedding heat compared to their previous brakes it that claim appears to be totally true.

    Also a big difference in how fluids handle heat. Mineral oil contains dissolved air and as it heats this air expands out of solution to form bubbles. The same thing happens in suspension which is why we vacuum degas the oil for rear shocks that run hot.
    DOT fluid doesn't do this, which is why all high performance brakes (cars, motorbikes, trucks, buses etc) use DOT fluid. Mineral is only used for slow machinery with immersed wet brakes (forklifts, loaders, bulldozers etc). They need mineral oil for seal compatibility as the whole brakes are sitting in axle oil.

    A good brake with fresh DOT fluid can run a rotor until it glows without fading out: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5TKN9CBkPE/
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  119. #519
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    That makes sense. Figured the fluid might be a big part of the difference.

    On the edge of ordering new brakes... Pretty sure I'm going to order something new and save these Maguras for a WW build for my daughter soon.

    Also looking hard at the Piccola HDs, but don't want to drop a wad of cash and be in the same position regarding overheating.

    Edit: I feel that Hayes makes the best brakes but I ordered Trickstuff just cause they've always intrigued me and wait time wasn't an issue for me. Hope I don't regret it!

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Suns_PSD; 1 Week Ago at 12:34 PM.

  120. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    Which rotors do you use?
    1.9 mm Maguras.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  121. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    1.9 mm Maguras.
    Should be fine, since they're of same thickness as Hayes rotors.
    Then your LBS probably hasn't bled them properly and maybe they didn't have the Pro bleed kit from Hayes and thus couldn't bleed both sides of the caliper.
    They probably have used SRAM/AVID syringes to bleed, since same thread, but only 1 side of the caliper and not both sides + the thread on SRAM/AVID is much shorter.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  122. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groove_c View Post
    Should be fine, since they're of same thickness as Hayes rotors.
    Then your LBS probably hasn't bled them properly and maybe they didn't have the Pro bleed kit from Hayes and thus couldn't bleed both sides of the caliper.
    They probably have used SRAM/AVID syringes to bleed, since same thread, but only 1 side of the caliper and not both sides + the thread on SRAM/AVID is much shorter.
    Yeah, I doubt that they have a dedicated Hayes bleed kit on hand. I guess I'll order one and try to figure out the process. My problem with bleeding anything is that my eyesight isn't so great at close range and it's hard to see bubbles.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  123. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes there are massive differences in how brakes handle heat. I have been riding Hayes brakes for just over 20 years now and the Dominion is the first one that I haven't been able to turn an 8" rotor purple on. The Hayes brake engineers tell me the Dominion is twice as good at shedding heat compared to their previous brakes it that claim appears to be totally true.

    Also a big difference in how fluids handle heat. Mineral oil contains dissolved air and as it heats this air expands out of solution to form bubbles. The same thing happens in suspension which is why we vacuum degas the oil for rear shocks that run hot.
    DOT fluid doesn't do this, which is why all high performance brakes (cars, motorbikes, trucks, buses etc) use DOT fluid. Mineral is only used for slow machinery with immersed wet brakes (forklifts, loaders, bulldozers etc). They need mineral oil for seal compatibility as the whole brakes are sitting in axle oil.

    A good brake with fresh DOT fluid can run a rotor until it glows without fading out: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5TKN9CBkPE/
    I'm going to save this post for future reference.

    Dougal, do you have an opinion as to why Shimano and Magura still use mineral oil in their bicycle brakes? Is it good enough*, and they simply don't want to change and 'relegate' all their existing install base?

    *statistically, most riders- especially in flatter areas- don't use their brakes heavily, and pro riders have a mechanic bleed their brakes frequently, and refresh the fluid.

  124. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes there are massive differences in how brakes handle heat. I have been riding Hayes brakes for just over 20 years now and the Dominion is the first one that I haven't been able to turn an 8" rotor purple on. The Hayes brake engineers tell me the Dominion is twice as good at shedding heat compared to their previous brakes it that claim appears to be totally true.

    Also a big difference in how fluids handle heat. Mineral oil contains dissolved air and as it heats this air expands out of solution to form bubbles. The same thing happens in suspension which is why we vacuum degas the oil for rear shocks that run hot.
    DOT fluid doesn't do this, which is why all high performance brakes (cars, motorbikes, trucks, buses etc) use DOT fluid. Mineral is only used for slow machinery with immersed wet brakes (forklifts, loaders, bulldozers etc). They need mineral oil for seal compatibility as the whole brakes are sitting in axle oil.

    A good brake with fresh DOT fluid can run a rotor until it glows without fading out: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5TKN9CBkPE/
    I'm guessing this might help explain all of the heat management on Shimano brakes such as the finned pads, freeza rotors, etc. Maybe they're trying to keep the heat down so that the fluid doesn't start degassing.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  125. #525
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    Mineral oil is sufficient for almost anyone on a bike. It can handle the heat. So companies use it since DOT needs to be degassed, if not you'll get air in the lines and people blame the brakes. DOT is better after about 6 month. Since it will absorbed water and only slightly drop the billing point. Mineral oil won't absorb water and it will probably end up in the caliper. This water will boil and cause all sorts of problems.

  126. #526
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    To be fair, I was on the Monarch Crest Trail, and it entailed a rather long descent that's not the usual. But then, it's not super steep either.
    However these same mineral brakes have gotten a bit soft at times at a small lift assist local park too and that bothered me.
    As a result of all this, I ordered Trickstuff brakes because effortless 1 finger actuation is exactly what I desire and being Dot 5.1 fluid it seems they don't require as large of rotors to deal with excess heat. Hayes is probably a better brake and certainly a better brake for the money but the sharp bite point and 250 saved grams of the TS brakes won me over.
    To top it off I choose the TS Heavy Duty rotors as they have a bit more pad surface area to better cope with heat and the pads will also last longer.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  127. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I'm going to save this post for future reference.

    Dougal, do you have an opinion as to why Shimano and Magura still use mineral oil in their bicycle brakes? Is it good enough*, and they simply don't want to change and 'relegate' all their existing install base?

    *statistically, most riders- especially in flatter areas- don't use their brakes heavily, and pro riders have a mechanic bleed their brakes frequently, and refresh the fluid.
    That's exactly it. The vast majority of riders have no issues at all with heat. They're riding little elevation change at moderate speeds.

    Pro's don't need their brakes as much as us mortals do. The worst case for brake heat is someone with the skill and ambition to ride a lot of vertical, but who rides it at a controlled speed with a lot of brake usage.

    Like me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Mineral oil is sufficient for almost anyone on a bike. It can handle the heat. So companies use it since DOT needs to be degassed, if not you'll get air in the lines and people blame the brakes. DOT is better after about 6 month. Since it will absorbed water and only slightly drop the billing point. Mineral oil won't absorb water and it will probably end up in the caliper. This water will boil and cause all sorts of problems.
    DOT doesn't need degassed and mineral oil doesn't handle heat well.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  128. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    To be fair, I was on the Monarch Crest Trail, and it entailed a rather long descent that's not the usual. But then, it's not super steep either.
    However these same mineral brakes have gotten a bit soft at times at a small lift assist local park too and that bothered me.
    As a result of all this, I ordered Trickstuff brakes because effortless 1 finger actuation is exactly what I desire and being Dot 5.1 fluid it seems they don't require as large of rotors to deal with excess heat. Hayes is probably a better brake and certainly a better brake for the money but the sharp bite point and 250 saved grams of the TS brakes won me over.
    To top it off I choose the TS Heavy Duty rotors as they have a bit more pad surface area to better cope with heat and the pads will also last longer.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    If you have long decents and need to drag the brakes at all DOT is a better fluid. Mineral is ok for on and of braking. Probably why Shimano has the servo wave to grab. You can't go wrong with TS.

  129. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    ... I ordered Trickstuff brakes because effortless 1 finger actuation is exactly what I desire and being Dot 5.1 fluid it seems they don't require as large of rotors to deal with excess heat. ...

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Is TS now using DOT 5.1? I thought they use plant based oil, something they call "Bionol"? https://trickstuff.de/bremsfluessigkeit/

  130. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roto599 View Post
    Is TS now using DOT 5.1? I thought they use plant based oil, something they call "Bionol"? https://trickstuff.de/bremsfluessigkeit/
    5.1 compatible.

    I'll have to break the system anyways to route and adjust lines and I'll bleed with a 5.1 recommended by TS as it has higher temp rating than the Bionol.

    Whenever a bike part fails or lets me down, I search out a solution that won't let me down in the future. Axles, spokes, rims, cranks, tires, handlebars, droppers and now brakes have been upgraded after failures. Usually if you are willing to spend more money you can improve performance without a significant weight penalty.

    The problem with TS brakes of course is parts availability. On a bike trip having commonly available parts is really helpful, but short of overheating I've never had a brake, break.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  131. #531
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    @Suns_PSD, it's actually Hayes thread, not Tr!ckstuff.

    Scott Genius 710 (2016)
    XTR Trail levers (BL-M9120) + XTR Trail calipers (BR-M9120)

  132. #532
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    Got my Dominion a4's set up and went for a ride today. Really impressive! Love the power and the modulation on them. I used the Hayes rotors as well. Everything is extremely confidence-inspiring.

    I did get a bit of a wake-up call on setting them up. I'm used to Shimano and TRP where I was able to slice the line, slide it through the frame, put a new barb on and reconnect it, and off to the races. Not so with the Dominions. The master lost all fluid as soon as I pulled the old barb out, which necessitated a full bleed, and of course this is DOT so you want to keep that stuff away from clearcoat (so naturally it flung all over everywhere when I was removing the bleed container). And then of course the location of the bleed port on the calipers made me think I'd be a fool not to pull the pads out (no bleed nipple here!). So in the end, it took quite a bit longer than others to set up.

    No complaints though, the end result was definitely worth it.

    And of course, after taking my new $400 brakes for a spin, I found out my Next SL cranks finally bit the dust...so I guess it's time to loosen up the bank account again. Sigh.

  133. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    In an effort to save some money, I put TRP Slate brakes on my enduro bike. While they've been quite reliable, the power just isn't there for the steep and gnarly trails that I'm riding these days.

    I think it's time to pony up and get some brakes that will give enough power and save my poor cramping hands. It looks like the Dominions will be perfect for me. I'm not seeing much in the way of complaints here.

    If Preston likes them, then they're probably pretty damn good.
    Give the DH-R EVO's a try

  134. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wls4ever View Post
    Give the DH-R EVO's a try
    See post #508.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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