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  1. #1
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    Hayes 9 bleeding, about to go postal

    i brought the bike into the garage to bleed out the front brake. found most everything i needed (how many 6 mm box wrenches in your town?)... up at the master cylinder i ran into a problem...i used a piece of plastic tubing that fits right into the hole, that is after i took that little rubber o-ring out/off....the bleeding process went fine, no trouble with that....but putting the o-ring back doesn't work now, in fact i'm not sure how it goes in the hole or on the hole...i thought it would just slip into a grooved place, now it just lays on top and the little barb that caps the master cylinder won't engage

    i can't belive this, why is this design so fragile...i need help, has anybody been here and figured it out...i ride my bike for commuting and everywhere
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  2. #2
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    It's a stupid design. Try a little more delicately.

  3. #3
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    Look inside close with a light there is a rubber blader inside that can shift a little not allowing the plug to go in properly.

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    i diffused the situation but replacing my front brake with my good old trusty avid bb7...shaking my head the whole time...

    i'll get my microscope and dental tools out later to attempt to figure out the screwy thing...you go through all this school and then these guys make millions on 99 cent store designs...i don't know, how about a screw and o-ring for example

    your up the creek if you loose that stupid rubber thing or the nanoscale cap job

    just incredible
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  5. #5
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    I guess the "O-ring" is an integrated part of the whole diaphragm-assembly inside the resevoir. You are not supposed to remove any rubber O-ring at the MC bleed hole. Just the barbed plastic fitting. If you managed to remove the rubber thingy which the barbed plastic is supposed to plug into - then you teared the diaphragm in two and will need a new one. You then need a new MC cap because the design does not allow for changing only the rubber inside... Not expensive at all.

    - Fx

  6. #6
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    BTI has them

    <table class="itemTable" align="center"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2"> <table border="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="left" width="33%"> <<Previous Item </td> <td align="center" width="33%"> Back To List </td> <td align="right" width="33%"> Next Item>> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Description:</td> <td class="itemGrid" width="300">Reservoir cap/bladder, HFX-9,Sole each </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Manufacturer:</td> <td class="itemGrid">Hayes Brake - (Part No. 98-16298)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Item No.:</td> <td class="itemGrid"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>HY8528</td><td class="itemType"> In Stock? </td></tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Specs:</td> <td border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <table class="itemLine" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%"> <tbody><tr height="50%"> <td class="itemManufCell itemCellHeader">Model</td> <td class="itemManufCell itemCellHeader">Description</td> <td class="itemManufCell itemCellHeader">Package</td> </tr> <tr height="50%"> <td class="itemDescCell">HFX-9, Sole</td> <td class="itemDescCell">Reservoir cap/bladder</td> <td class="itemDescCell">each</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Features:</td> <td class="itemGrid"> <li class="groupBullets">MC bodies are bare (no guts, lever, etc) <li class="groupBullets">HFX-Mag and '05+ HFX-9 body comes with back clamp and bolts (El Camino back clamp sold separately from body) <li class="groupBullets">For older Orig/DH/FR parts not listed, sub complete HFX-Mag MC/lever assemblies</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Special Notes:</td> <td class="itemGrid"><li class="groupBullets" style="color: red;"> Includes: plastic reservoir cap, rubber bladder, bleed</td></tr></tbody></table>

  7. #7
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    unbelieveable...i did not tear anything, it just popped out...unbelievable design..i'll probably drill and tap mine
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    unbelieveable...i did not tear anything, it just popped out...unbelievable design..i'll probably drill and tap mine
    Yup i learned the hard way also. Ordered the Mag masters, no problem.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    BTI has them

    <table class="itemTable" align="center"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2"> <table border="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="left" width="33%"> <<Previous Item </td> <td align="center" width="33%"> Back To List </td> <td align="right" width="33%"> Next Item>> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Description:</td> <td class="itemGrid" width="300">Reservoir cap/bladder, HFX-9,Sole each </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Manufacturer:</td> <td class="itemGrid">Hayes Brake - (Part No. 98-16298)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Item No.:</td> <td class="itemGrid"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>HY8528</td><td class="itemType"> In Stock? </td></tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Specs:</td> <td border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <table class="itemLine" style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt;" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%"> <tbody><tr height="50%"> <td class="itemManufCell itemCellHeader">Model</td> <td class="itemManufCell itemCellHeader">Description</td> <td class="itemManufCell itemCellHeader">Package</td> </tr> <tr height="50%"> <td class="itemDescCell">HFX-9, Sole</td> <td class="itemDescCell">Reservoir cap/bladder</td> <td class="itemDescCell">each</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Features:</td> <td class="itemGrid"> <li class="groupBullets">MC bodies are bare (no guts, lever, etc) <li class="groupBullets">HFX-Mag and '05+ HFX-9 body comes with back clamp and bolts (El Camino back clamp sold separately from body) <li class="groupBullets">For older Orig/DH/FR parts not listed, sub complete HFX-Mag MC/lever assemblies</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="itemGrid descCol">Special Notes:</td> <td class="itemGrid"><li class="groupBullets" style="color: red;"> Includes: plastic reservoir cap, rubber bladder, bleed</td></tr></tbody></table>

    hey dog gone!

    i'm gonna get my hayes fixed up now that i cooled off...i went online and this BTI place is the only site that shows this part...how do you order from them?

    thanks
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    hey dog gone!

    i'm gonna get my hayes fixed up now that i cooled off...i went online and this BTI place is the only site that shows this part...how do you order from them?

    thanks
    LBS

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    LBS
    knew you'd say that...aight, i'm prepared for the 'what now?' with part numbers and a website
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    knew you'd say that...aight, i'm prepared for the 'what now?' with part numbers and a website
    They wont kill ya less than $20 bucks. FWIW -8.00 dealer cost.

  13. #13
    spinnin-n-grinnin
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    leake bladder hole

    Yeah, I had to replace this resevior cap also, can't believe how fragile that design is.

    I got everything together again and then gave a good squeze to the lever. fluid came out of the little tiny hole near the plug. My system won't hold presure now. Re - bleed, squeeze and more fluid comes out the hole. This is a new cap and bladder, not visible tears, I think the fluid is just squirting by the seal the bladder is supposed to make with the master cylinder body.

    I really am having a hard time liking these hayes brakes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcmatt
    Yeah, I had to replace this resevior cap also, can't believe how fragile that design is.

    I got everything together again and then gave a good squeze to the lever. fluid came out of the little tiny hole near the plug. My system won't hold presure now. Re - bleed, squeeze and more fluid comes out the hole. This is a new cap and bladder, not visible tears, I think the fluid is just squirting by the seal the bladder is supposed to make with the master cylinder body.

    I really am having a hard time liking these hayes brakes.
    The calipers are awsome just the only good master cylinder is the Mag.

    Check with Hayes, you can call or email them unless you can track down XSL_WiLL somewhere around here.

    http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/contact.shtml
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcmatt
    Yeah, I had to replace this resevior cap also, can't believe how fragile that design is.

    I got everything together again and then gave a good squeze to the lever. fluid came out of the little tiny hole near the plug. My system won't hold presure now. Re - bleed, squeeze and more fluid comes out the hole. This is a new cap and bladder, not visible tears, I think the fluid is just squirting by the seal the bladder is supposed to make with the master cylinder body.

    I really am having a hard time liking these hayes brakes.
    presumably you had to special order from an LBS like i did, right? cost you about $20 right? anyway, take it back there and let them look at it, it may be that the rubber thing is not sitting properly in the master cylider, although may be the replacement you got was defective? could it be that there is too much fluid in the system? and that it is trying to get the extra fluid out, the easiest or absically only place would be the cap on the master?

    these brakes are pretty good, they require some slowly down and concentration to set up though

    let us know how it turns out, always interested in hydraulic tinkering
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    presumably you had to special order from an LBS like i did, right? cost you about $20 right? anyway, take it back there and let them look at it, it may be that the rubber thing is not sitting properly in the master cylider, although may be the replacement you got was defective? could it be that there is too much fluid in the system? and that it is trying to get the extra fluid out, the easiest or absically only place would be the cap on the master?

    these brakes are pretty good, they require some slowly down and concentration to set up though

    let us know how it turns out, always interested in hydraulic tinkering
    Guess you got your fixed ayy
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  17. #17
    spinnin-n-grinnin
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    presumably you had to special order from an LBS like i did, right? cost you about $20 right?
    Well they happened to have one in stock, $16, Pro bikes in Asheville NC is a great shop...

    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    could it be that there is too much fluid in the system? and that it is trying to get the extra fluid out, the easiest or absically only place would be the cap on the master?
    Yeah, maybe that was it, but how I ended up with too much is a mystery to me.


    Here's where it stands now, I tried to torque down too hard on the Torx bolts to stop the fluid from flowing out around the seal and sneaking out through that hole. Not a good idea, cause I broke the damn bolt...

    Now I'll probably need a new master cylinder body. Strong Expletive!

    I'm taking her into a shop, pay to get it fixed. This is the only mechanical issue I have not been able to do myself. Expensive lessons.


    Otherwise, the brakes work well, as I remember, haven't been able to ride for over a week....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcmatt
    Well they happened to have one in stock, $16, Pro bikes in Asheville NC is a great shop...



    Yeah, maybe that was it, but how I ended up with too much is a mystery to me.


    Here's where it stands now, I tried to torque down too hard on the Torx bolts to stop the fluid from flowing out around the seal and sneaking out through that hole. Not a good idea, cause I broke the damn bolt...

    Now I'll probably need a new master cylinder body. Strong Expletive!

    I'm taking her into a shop, pay to get it fixed. This is the only mechanical issue I have not been able to do myself. Expensive lessons.


    Otherwise, the brakes work well, as I remember, haven't been able to ride for over a week....

    that really sucks, now your at the mercy of an LBS, hope they turn it around fast

    one suggestion would be to pick up one, or better, a pair of avid bb7's...these brake are fantastic and they are almost bulletproof...cost for a pair might be around $110 or so

    let us know how much your lbs charges you for this repair and all the lost riding time, then we can do some math and compare

    i've got spares of brakes and all sorts of parts, they come in handy
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  19. #19
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    HFX-Mag master
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    HFX-Mag master
    Dogonfr, are Mag master cylinders compatiable with the HFX-9 calipers? I have the HFX-9's currently and I am scared to bleed them with all the problems I have read about. I have always taken brake issues to the LBS. Right now, my rear brake has move lever movement than my front brake. I would like to add fluid to the rear system but I am not about to open Pandora's box and I don't want to take it back to the LBS since they are the ones that set it up like this.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Dogonfr, are Mag master cylinders compatiable with the HFX-9 calipers? I have the HFX-9's currently and I am scared to bleed them with all the problems I have read about. I have always taken brake issues to the LBS. Right now, my rear brake has move lever movement than my front brake. I would like to add fluid to the rear system but I am not about to open Pandora's box and I don't want to take it back to the LBS since they are the ones that set it up like this.
    The 9 & Mag calipers are the same, G-2. The master is where the feel & power are located.

    The lever travel is normialy adjusted by the push rod screw at the lever. Bleeding is not the problem as much as the foolish plug for the bleed addaptor to fit into. The plug fits into a ribbed blader to seal the system, its very easy to malform the blader if not very carefull removing & installing the plug.

    One would think that since alot of these brake manufactures make systems for motos they would know how to do it right but no they have to go & reinvent the whole system for a different porpose.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    The 9 & Mag calipers are the same, G-2. The master is where the feel & power are located.

    The lever travel is normialy adjusted by the push rod screw at the lever. Bleeding is not the problem as much as the foolish plug for the bleed addaptor to fit into. The plug fits into a ribbed blader to seal the system, its very easy to malform the blader if not very carefull removing & installing the plug.

    One would think that since alot of these brake manufactures make systems for motos they would know how to do it right but no they have to go & reinvent the whole system for a different porpose.
    Lever travel is different. The push rod screw adjusts the lever reach. Both brake levers are at 3 in out at the tip of the lever to the grip. When I squeeze the brakes with the same pressure, the rear brake lever is 1/4" - 1/2" closer to the grip. The action itself feels much softer on the rear as well.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Lever travel is different. The push rod screw adjusts the lever reach. Both brake levers are at 3 in out at the tip of the lever to the grip. When I squeeze the brakes with the same pressure, the rear brake lever is 1/4" - 1/2" closer to the grip. The action itself feels much softer on the rear as well.
    your right, you need more fluid in the rear brake system...if you bled with a business card in between one piston and the rotor, that should leave enough room for no drag after bleeding...and it will push the pistons out just a bit but not too much

    maybe if you describe the situation to the head machanic at your lbs they can do it for you...should take more than 20 minutes, you could grab lunch while they do it
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Lever travel is different. The push rod screw adjusts the lever reach. Both brake levers are at 3 in out at the tip of the lever to the grip. When I squeeze the brakes with the same pressure, the rear brake lever is 1/4" - 1/2" closer to the grip. The action itself feels much softer on the rear as well.
    Mine was doing that up to a point where the lever ran out of stroke and the brake wouldn't engage. It turned out to be a defective piston (according to Hayes, where I sent it for repair) that would leak fluid/let air in slowly over time (I never saw the leak). I bled the thing twice before I gave up and sent it to Hayes.

    You should try and bleed the brake, but you may end up having a leak somewhere like I did. If you've had the brake less than 2 years, take advantage of Hayes's warranty. I wasted a lot of time and money for nothing.

    I'm very close to giving up on hydros and going to Avid BB7's.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Lever travel is different. The push rod screw adjusts the lever reach. Both brake levers are at 3 in out at the tip of the lever to the grip. When I squeeze the brakes with the same pressure, the rear brake lever is 1/4" - 1/2" closer to the grip. The action itself feels much softer on the rear as well.
    Some people dont understand that & say the brakes are getting weaker walk over & look at the screw, way out there. Try what adamantane said with the card or you can use feeler gauges.
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  26. #26
    spinnin-n-grinnin
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    I'm going mechanical

    The Hayes hfx 9's were very good brakes. Good power, good control and I never really had any drag. After 1.5 years they needed service. That seems like a very reasonable time period before I needed to do more than change pads.

    But then the trouble started. These brakes are not well designed for maintenance, imho. That tiny little plug in the master cylinder, on a $100 plus brake? You must be kidding. LBS said they would charge @ $90 to rebuild the piston and bleed. These are just way to tedious for me. maybe its just me and my tolerance, maybe I just got one of the 'bad batches' I have heard (from a wrench at a big shop "some of these hayes just aren't worth fixing and some you can't fix 'cause they have bad pistons. I can put new shimano deore on for less than repair"). Another quote from a different mechanic "we do more work on hayes than any other kind of brake. I never recommend Hayes products." Now maybe they were just trying to sell me something, but I don't think so, I think Hayes are just fine 'til you need to work on 'em. Which in my book means they are crap.

    I am getting rid of these brakes and going mechanical, avid bb7. I understand they are plenty powerful (I'm going 185 in front 160 in back). I also expect I will have to touch them every few rides, but I also understand that when I touch them they will respond predictably and allow me to fix them, ie, they are designed so I can work on them and be successful. Sold. At around 170 for front back and speed dial 7 levers from pricepoint.
    Last edited by mrcmatt; 09-21-2006 at 04:46 AM.

  27. #27
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    avid bb7 plenty good

    Just to follow up, I got the avid mechanicals, bb7.

    installed and ready to go in @ 2 hours.

    Gave them a good work out today and I am satified. They have all the stopping power I need, but my forarms do feel the difference - guess I'll look like popeye soon enough.

    the hayes 9 were just way to tempermental and labor intense. I like to ride not fuss with brakes.

    rock it.

  28. #28
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    I hear a lot here about busting the bladder with the bleed plug... I didn't get the kit and used a piece of hose just bigger and slipped it in there for the master cylinder bleed. no plug to rip anything, but that little cap bugger, thank god I din't bust that!!

  29. #29
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    I have the same problem, more lever play on the back brake... How do you add fluid from the master cylinder (first set of hydros) The front brake (one of my dumb buddies pulled the brake when I was changing the tire) so now its really tight. I did what the manual said. Push the pistons back after taking the pads out that didnt help... Its not rubbing or anything but its just really tight, the pull is tiny and I dont know how to bleed or add fluid and I really dont want to try...
    Gamut
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    I have the same problem, more lever play on the back brake... How do you add fluid from the master cylinder (first set of hydros) The front brake (one of my dumb buddies pulled the brake when I was changing the tire) so now its really tight. I did what the manual said. Push the pistons back after taking the pads out that didnt help... Its not rubbing or anything but its just really tight, the pull is tiny and I dont know how to bleed or add fluid and I really dont want to try...
    it sounds like you want to remove a bit of fluid from that master cylinder...maybe put a business card on each side of the rotor, between the rotor and pads, and bleed...this should add a bit more distance between the pads and rotor after the bleed...making the lever throw for that brake a bit longer, less tight
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  31. #31
    EastBaySteez
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    As I said I am very new to Hydro brakes, I have had cables for the past few years. I dont know how to bleed.. and I dont have a bike stand to bleed them on!?!?!?!
    Gamut
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
    As I said I am very new to Hydro brakes, I have had cables for the past few years. I dont know how to bleed.. and I dont have a bike stand to bleed them on!?!?!?!
    Good LBS is in need here.
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  33. #33
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    meh this makes me nervous...mine 9's need bleeding soon haha...i guess i'll just take it to the LBS
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