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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    I agree with you, they should make it public. But to their credit they are really fast to reply on e-mail and they told me the range. But yeah... you shouldn´t have to ask for it.
    Care to share that range with us?
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  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    Care to share that range with us?
    Already did

    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    Edit:
    If the serial number of your brake starts with 26T7 or higher you have 2nd generation. Lower like 21T7 and its 1st generation.

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    Already did
    Now I remember! Thanks
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  4. #504
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    Funny thing though is that out of my two brakes, one of them feels sticky when indoor in my apartment. BUT.... the one that feels sticky in room temperature is the one with the caliper serial suggesting its 2nd generation. The other one that according to serial nr is 1st generation feels snappy and good in room temperature.

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    I agree with you, they should make it public. But to their credit they are really fast to reply on e-mail and they told me the range. But yeah... you shouldn´t have to ask for it.
    No, they really should do a recall, but I'm sure that would be expensive.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    Are the 2017 brakes also affected by this?
    Look, they can't fix this. Have you any idea how long this nonsense has been going on? I was pulling stuck brakes off bikes years ago, and we're still talking about it?

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    Edit:
    Just received news from Sram that one of my brakes has 1st generation and the CPA parts still are red.....so red CPA internals is not a sign of 2nd generation.

    If the serial number of your brake starts with 26T7 or higher you have 2nd generation. Lower like 21T7 and its 1st generation.
    Crap.. based on this I have the 1st gen. Well, I was thinking about replacing them anyway. Might make a good winter project.

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Look, they can't fix this. Have you any idea how long this nonsense has been going on? I was pulling stuck brakes off bikes years ago, and we're still talking about it?
    Has shimano been able to fix the wandering bite point problem? That's actually a serious question.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    Now 7-8 months later, there's apparently fluid getting past a seal on my rear brake's lever, presumably at the piston. One of the guys at SRAM talked me through a host of possibilities, most of which I'd already confirmed were not the problem. He even went and consulted whoever else, and called me back months they were working properly.
    Ok, this was my fault, not the brake's. Why it took months, why it's only the rear brake and how the brake was losing pressure without a noticeable fluid leak, I don't know. I suppose whatever tiny amount of fluid leaked out was chalked up to removing the syringe after bleeding(plus I spray down the caliper immediately due to the DOT fluid).
    Anyway, after swapping pistons again, the problem with my rear brake persisted. I got the bright idea of hooking a Guide lever to a Level caliper, having read their valving was the same. And it worked, my lever was good to go. That narrowed things down to the Guide caliper. I kept wondering why everything was fine during the bleed, but not afterward, and that made it pretty obvious, especially when I'd had some nagging thought about the bleed screw bottoming out not feeling right. And that was it. Those extra o-rings in my stainless caliper hardware kit weren't extras, and I didn't have an o-ring under the bleed screws. Duh.

    Stupid stainless bolts. They look pretty sharp, though, and go ok with the ti mounting bolts. There's an OEM ti set(Guide Ultimate?), too, but I wasn't willing to pay for it.
    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-20171011_084018.jpg
    I feel like an idiot over that o-ring, but *am* glad I got the new pistons swapped in. I can swap lever pistons and get a perfect bleed blindfolded at this point, too

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    Edit:
    Just received news from Sram that one of my brakes has 1st generation and the CPA parts still are red.....so red CPA internals is not a sign of 2nd generation.

    If the serial number of your brake starts with 26T7 or higher you have 2nd generation. Lower like 21T7 and its 1st generation.
    So I got the option from the shop to return my brake and get a new one sent to me. This is just too much of a hassle as I have to remove the brake, package it, send it, whait for new one, install new one, cut brake line, bleed the brake.

    Ended up with them sending me the updated internals kit including a bottle of dot fluid and some dot grease and I´ll change the internals myself.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    I feel like an idiot over that o-ring, but *am* glad I got the new pistons swapped in. I can swap lever pistons and get a perfect bleed blindfolded at this point, too
    Funny I posted that, and when I went to ride, the rear brake "pumped up", and the lever became rock hard with no free movement. I ended up bleeding it again, even draining fluid, squeezing the lever with the caliper bleed screw out, to see if that would relieve pressure in the system. Something, anything. Lever would loosen up and go to the bar, but then pump up again the next time it was squeezed. I kept trying, and the brake actually works perfectly right now(but...why, how?), just firmer at the lever and faster engaging than the front, so it has to be feathered more lightly to modulate. All my problems have been with that same brake, while the front is still fine. I've run out of patience with trying to fix it, being lied to by both my LBS and internet dealer when trying to warranty it, and now having it inexplicably working, yet wondering what it will do next. Don't know, don't care, done with it. Figure it's best to replace them while they're still working, and spent almost $400 getting a set of Maguras with rotors, extra pads, fluid, bleed kit, etc. headed my way this morning. If they're all they're cracked up to be, it will be well worth it not to have to fool with these Guides any more.
    I hope for everyone else that the warranty replacements and Generation 2 versions are free of issues, but that'll be for someone else to discover...

  12. #512
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    Can't help but keep brainstorming. My job is basically keeping problems from happening within multiple contained systems, fixing them when they do, and then keeping them from happening again...
    Since I temporarily used a Level with the same brake line, I cut a bit of excess length off, and switched the barb and olive to the newer "Stealthamajig" ones that are supposed to be backwards compatible. I'd be interested to hear if anyone is using them with older Guides, and am actually kind of tempted to try again with the old style fittings just to see. I tend not to quit plugging away at a mystery problem until there are no stones left unturned

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    Has shimano been able to fix the wandering bite point problem? That's actually a serious question.
    You'll probably find that all manufacturers have had issues with their brakes. What makes Avid/SRAM special is that they have had more or less exactly the same issue from day one and it still keeps reoccurring. Some balloon neg-reped me for saying that they cannot fix this but I've yet to see the evidence that says otherwise. They have yet to produce a series of brakes that has no seizing issues.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    You'll probably find that all manufacturers have had issues with their brakes. What makes Avid/SRAM special is that they have had more or less exactly the same issue from day one and it still keeps reoccurring. Some balloon neg-reped me for saying that they cannot fix this but I've yet to see the evidence that says otherwise. They have yet to produce a series of brakes that has no seizing issues.
    Some balloon? Now that's funny. I'm picturing some troll face painted on a red balloon floating away in panic. You've made my day.

    To their credit, you have to admit, with the Guides SRAM found a completely NEW way to cause the brakes to seize, it's a completely different problem than the Elixirs, which nearly the same result. I mean, ultimately, that takes a certain amount of talent, does it not? Either that, or a room full of engineers that don't know how to balance a differential equation.

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Some balloon? Now that's funny.
    Well, I don't mind getting neg-rep if I say something horrible or stupid but kinda pisses you off when you get it for saying something that's patently true. I would've neg-repped him back but I've already pos-repped him so I can't... yet ;0)

    That's what I mean about them not being able to fix it. There is clearly some defect in the design department when they keep making the same sort of mistakes. I just don't see any reason to trust these people.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107 View Post
    For those of you going the DIY route, a tip on sanding: After removing the seals and pulling off the spring, lightly chuck the piston in a drill by the spring end. Spin it up and and lightly touch the sandpaper to it. If you're careful you can get a pretty consistent diameter rather than a hex/octagon shape if you were to rub the piston along sandpaper on the bench top. Poor man's lathe.


    I had them side by side last night and nothing jumped out as different with the seals. Have to take their word for it. The new piston was slightly smaller diameter than my sanded version.


    Mine wouldn't release at 75*F or in my basement at 65*F. After applying an icepack and testing with IR thermometer they were still stuck at 50*F and I gave up. Once removing the pistons from the bodies i doubt any temperature variance in the metal would have solved how stuck they were. At least for me anyway.
    Hi, I have a lot of guides and DB5's, all gen 1. Sanding has worked great, but it would be nice to know what dia. to sand down to. Did you measure gen 2 dia. by any chance. If not, I'll probably buy a new set to measure. I do the same trick with inserting the piston into a drill. I have done about 7 pairs now, all working great and they all got trhough the Texas summer. Knock on wood.
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  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeus2112 View Post
    Hi, I have a lot of guides and DB5's, all gen 1. Sanding has worked great, but it would be nice to know what dia. to sand down to. Did you measure gen 2 dia. by any chance. If not, I'll probably buy a new set to measure. I do the same trick with inserting the piston into a drill. I have done about 7 pairs now, all working great and they all got trhough the Texas summer. Knock on wood.
    9.38mm is what I've made all mine to.

    The bore is 9.50mm as best I can tell.

  18. #518
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    I went through two sets of these brakes with both sets failing. Ended up ditching them for XTs.


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  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by link1896 View Post
    9.38mm is what I've made all mine to.

    The bore is 9.50mm as best I can tell.
    No claims as to the accuracy of my calipers, but in inches, the ones I just removed were .369(which is 9.38mm)-.371", and the newest ones were .363(9.22mm)-.364". While lacking certainty about the absolute accuracy, I suppose the difference is what's important. So .006-.007"/~.16mm smaller than the previous rendition.

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenM View Post
    No claims as to the accuracy of my calipers, but in inches, the ones I just removed were .369(which is 9.38mm)-.371", and the newest ones were .363(9.22mm)-.364". While lacking certainty about the absolute accuracy, I suppose the difference is what's important. So .006-.007"/~.16mm smaller than the previous rendition.
    FWIW I think a big part of the problem with Avid/Guide brakes is the lack of QC with the manufacture of the lever housings; as said they appear to be of a nominal 9.50mm bore dimension but those that I have measured are always a little undersized even though with wear one would expect them to be slightly oversized.

    I just checked an old Juicy I had laying around and the smallest part of the bore was 9.47mm and the largest part on the piston was 9.50mm or in other words a 0.03mm interference fit. Of course when in position it had positive clearance (brake wasn't sticking) but I could feel the tight spots when removing/installing the piston.

    I had measured the sticking Guide R I had pulled apart and noticed similar discrepancies. Since I originally was getting no help from my LBS I ordered a Gen2 kit to do the work myself and the lands on the G2 spool measured L to R 9.24mm, 9.13mm, 9.13mm, 9.24mm.

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-rtwp_20171125_003%5B1%5D.jpg

    For my next experiment I'm going measure one of these pistons after putting it in boiling water to see what the thermal expansion is. Stay tuned.

    But the happy ending to my Guide R story is that a friend of a friend who knows somebody was able to get me warranty replacement lever assemblies for both of my bikes no charge. Of course I have to do the swap/bleed myself but that's OK. I heard that the "somebody" requested an "herbal" tip for their trouble. Not exactly good for SRAM's warranty service reputation not that I really care.
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  21. #521
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    It's very hard to measure the bore accurately. I sure don't have a bore gauge that can get down to ~9.5mm in a hole this deep.

    I turned up a dummy plug in the lathe, wiping off 0.02mm a time, and tested fit. I found about 5 levers all to be accurately machined to 9.50mm, suggesting the levers were all machined properly with carbide tipped tooling and the fault lies with the nylon pistons.

    I was making my own aluminium pistons for a while. I was machining to 9.40-9.43mm and lubricating with red rubber grease.

    Need to pull my main XC bikes levers apart and look at wear of the lever body. My fear is dirt will get in and score up the bore.

    I'm using calibrated external micrometers to measure, I don't trust my mitutoyo verniers beyond +/- 0.1mm, they just don't have the repeatability.

  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    Interestingly there's a whole bunch of Guide R brake sets showing up on e-Bay from China; all in the $20 range with free shipping. Most claim to be take-offs; some as new and some used. Just for laughs I ordered a pair (a fool and his money will soon be parted?) that allegedly have already had the Gen 2 re-work done by a shop.

    In regards to my own bike I've switched to Shimano XT's (M785) and they work fine; not quite as nice as the Guides IMHO for all the reasons mentioned previously but I don't have to worry about riding on a hot sunny day.

    (Maybe now that winter's coming on I won't have to bother with my wife's bike until spring?)

    In other e-Bay news also from China are aluminum master cylinder pistons ("spools"?) for Guide brakes at $10 a pop; they were out of the "R" version but still had the "RSC" listed. When/if they get back in stock I might try a couple.
    Did they come in? Verdict?

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Did they come in? Verdict?
    In regards to the cheap used Guide R brakes they're not due in yet; literally being shipped (allegedly) via the "slow boat from China"---no notice of shipment yet either which worries me. As soon as they're past their due date I'll try contacting the seller and see if I've been gypped.

    In regards to the aluminum internals they've only recently become available again for the R/RS/etc models; I did order a pair but don't expect to see them until around Christmas.
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  24. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    In regards to the cheap used Guide R brakes they're not due in yet; literally being shipped (allegedly) via the "slow boat from China"---no notice of shipment yet either which worries me. As soon as they're past their due date I'll try contacting the seller and see if I've been gypped.

    In regards to the aluminum internals they've only recently become available again for the R/RS/etc models; I did order a pair but don't expect to see them until around Christmas.
    In regards to the cheap used Guide R brakes from China/Germany both sets were scams and the sellers vaporized. (Maybe the same D-bag with different ID's)

    EBay good to their satisfaction guarantee immediately refunded my money once made aware these crooks.

    In regards to the the aluminum internals I received a set and they are as advertised. Came with the seals, cheaper than buying a plastic OEM SRAM rebuild kit. I no longer have any Guide R brakes to try them in though.

    Maybe someday.
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  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenna View Post
    Edit:
    Just received news from Sram that one of my brakes has 1st generation and the CPA parts still are red.....so red CPA internals is not a sign of 2nd generation.

    If the serial number of your brake starts with 26T7 or higher you have 2nd generation. Lower like 21T7 and its 1st generation.
    So I was looking at 2017 Guide RS Carbon brake set for sale and the serial numbers are 41T6. Does the 6 indicate they are from 2016 and would definitely be 1st gen??

  26. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1ng View Post
    So I was looking at 2017 Guide RS Carbon brake set for sale and the serial numbers are 41T6. Does the 6 indicate they are from 2016 and would definitely be 1st gen??
    So I emailed SRAM and this is what the numbers mean:

    "41T6 would be 2016 production. 41 would be the week of the year, so they would have been the 41st week of 2016."

  27. #527
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    I ordered a pair on Knipex 4811J0 Internal Straight Precision Retaining Ring Pliers 5.5-Inch and they work great. Guide R and DB5 are the most difficult to get the snap ring out of, these really help. Just use a pick to push the ring around to the best position and these pliers are perfect.

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  28. #528
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    For a few months my Guide RSC levers have had “poor return”. I found this thread and ordered the rebuild kits, but since the bike was still rideable, rebuilding the levers wasn’t essential—until today. The first warm day of the year was today, and in the heat, the levers became stuck locking the wheels. Tonight, I rebuilt the levers. The first lever took an hour, and the second lever took 15 minutes. Once you know what you are doing, the rebuild is quite easy. Back to smooth goodness. SRAM should do a campagne to get these bad levers out of the hands of users. It could be a safety issue for an unsuspecting rider.

  29. #529
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    So glad I found this thread. My brakes have been acting weird since last fall. They were dragging intermittently and I couldn't figure out what the deal was. Finally, this past week down in Southern Utah, they locked up completely and the temps were only in the 70s Fahrenheit (sorry rest of the world, I have no idea what that is in Celsius).

    Just got off chat with Trek and they refuse to even acknowledge the issue.

    I'm thinking about getting a battery powered hair dryer, starting at the top of our bomber hill, obtain terminal velocity and then firing up the hair dryer point blank at my front lever and sendin' meself OTB. There's got to be a lawsuit somewhere in there.

  30. #530
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    Did you buy direct from trek? (can you even do that?) If not, go to the place you bought the bike from. Or, go talk to SRAM directly.

    Or just buy the $20 rebuild kit and do it yourself.

  31. #531
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    Yeah, if the bike is still under warranty just take it back and let them deal with it.

  32. #532
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    I took it to the shop I purchased it from and they took it in right away. It was obvious I wasn't the first person coming to their shop with this problem. So, it's in the shop waiting for parts as I type this.

  33. #533
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    I was in Moab last weekend and my Avid Guide model R brakes froze up on two bikes on the same ride. I wasn't aware of this thread and my one bike has 1900 miles on it with no problems. Anyway, took my bikes to the LBS and Avid is sending new levers for both bikes under warranty. I am satisfied. Yay for me! My bikes were model year 2017. I didn't get a chance to see the date codes.

    In other news I have some 2007 Juicey7s that are starting to get mushy. I wonder if they are covered under warranty? LOL

  34. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by CORTH View Post
    For a few months my Guide RSC levers have had “poor return”. I found this thread and ordered the rebuild kits, but since the bike was still rideable, rebuilding the levers wasn’t essential—until today. The first warm day of the year was today, and in the heat, the levers became stuck locking the wheels. Tonight, I rebuilt the levers. The first lever took an hour, and the second lever took 15 minutes. Once you know what you are doing, the rebuild is quite easy. Back to smooth goodness. SRAM should do a campagne to get these bad levers out of the hands of users. It could be a safety issue for an unsuspecting rider.
    I don’t understand how SRAM can avoid doing a recall from this when so many riders are at risk.


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    Well, it definitely wasn't a great time to find out about this in the middle of the desert in Moab. My bike was 1 1/2 yrs old and well broken in. I thought it was the calipers out on the trail and turns out it was the levers. I'm letting all my friends know. I wonder if the NHSA administration knows about this?

  36. #536
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    Though I was lucky (Ha!) that neither of my DB5 failures killed me, I agree that there should have been a recall.

    When my rear lever failed last spring, I specifically asked my LBS to request both levers. They said SRAM would only send the rear.

    All was well for almost a year then the front failed.

    This time, SRAM replaced both with Guide R levers.

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  37. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    I don’t understand how SRAM can avoid doing a recall from this when so many riders are at risk.
    Cost.

  38. #538
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    Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), the failing brakes are locked up which isn't as dangerous as them not working when needed. Therefore, the liability issues are severely lessened which allows them to ignore a recall.
    Last edited by Rockadile; 04-10-2018 at 05:56 AM.

  39. #539
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    On my wife's bike the front brake went into a mode that was either free wheeling or complete lockup if you touched the lever. In Moab that is not something that you want and could easily throw the rider. I remember a while back a major bike manufacture had a recall because the pedals were not torqued properly. I am not ripping on SRAM here since I really like there products, I am just feeling sorry for myself since I don't get to go out of town much and to have both bikes break down for something that could have been prevented was disappointing to say the least. I didn't know about the cold water fix for maybe I could have attached some ice packs to handle bars. LOL

  40. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by DM-SC View Post
    Though I was lucky (Ha!) that neither of my DB5 failures killed me, I agree that there should have been a recall.

    When my rear lever failed last spring, I specifically asked my LBS to request both levers. They said SRAM would only send the rear.

    All was well for almost a year then the front failed.

    This time, SRAM replaced both with Guide R levers.

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    My failed brake levers were "R" models. Hmmmmmm.........

  41. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Warp View Post
    My failed brake levers were "R" models. Hmmmmmm.........
    The new ones they sent were supposedly the latest 'fixed' versions.

    I probably won't find out if they are actually fixed.

    I swapped them for SLX while I was waiting in the SRAM replacements to arrive.

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  42. #542
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    After more than a year (which I hoped in vain), my rear RSC got stuck in the best way possible; it threw me OTB in a valley (thanks God it was a bush to save me) so I'll start with @#%$ SRAM ! ! !

    Anyways, second part of the ordeal , this happened while I was relocating to Barcelona, so the only place that had the kit, sold it for €40 and directed me to someone else for another €26 labor. 64 euros / $80 for a plastic crap

    Now the thing is , picked the bike today from the shop where they barely speak any English to find out shortly that contact point adjuster was stuck.

    So is there anything I can do to make the adjuster work again (and sell them as fast I can) ?
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  43. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan_mb View Post
    After more than a year (which I hoped in vain), my rear RSC got stuck in the best way possible; it threw me OTB in a valley (thanks God it was a bush to save me) so I'll start with @#%$ SRAM ! ! !

    Anyways, second part of the ordeal , this happened while I was relocating to Barcelona, so the only place that had the kit, sold it for €40 and directed me to someone else for another €26 labor. 64 euros / $80 for a plastic crap

    Now the thing is , picked the bike today from the shop where they barely speak any English to find out shortly that contact point adjuster was stuck.

    So is there anything I can do to make the adjuster work again (and sell them as fast I can) ?
    Could be assembled incorrectly, or could be just stuck. Try pliers and a rag to grab the cp adjuster and turn in.

  44. #544
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    I actually like the guide brakes. My bike is super heavy plus riding weight equals 250 lbs total. I thought it was weird that I wore out a rear rotor and several brake pads in the rear while the front was still good. Now I know why.

  45. #545
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    I finally got my EZMTB Master bleed kit (surprisingly good) and some DOT 5.1 so I thought I'd shave the pistons and rebuild my levers today. Not a difficult task but I broke one of the seals on the plastic piston (then went full-tilt Yosemite Sam for a minute). I guess I'll be getting those eBay aluminum pistons kits because it'd be easier than trying to source the piston seals...

    Unless someone already knows where/how to order them???

    FWIW, I live in Thailand.

  46. #546
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    Yosemite Sam in Thailand.....priceless. LOL

    Try calling customer service. Maybe they will send you some new levers. Doesn't hurt to try.

  47. #547
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    Contacted SRAM Thailand via Facebook. Immediate response and they said they were going to see if they had them and would get back to me soon! Woohoo!

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    Sweet!

  49. #549
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    Got new levers with one week turn around. I had "R" models and now I have "RSC" levers. I was charged $20 per bike which I was told was less than half of what they should have charged. Anyway, I have brakes now. Yay for me!

  50. #550
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    Can I get away with not changing to the new style barb and olive when doing a lever swap?
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  51. #551
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    OK, so my Guide RS brakes were seizing up (again) now that it is warm outside. Last time, the LBS where I bought the bike just did a bleed and they were fine - in the cool air conditioning of their shop, of course. And they were fine all winter. Had some issues this week so I just did a quick test with a hair dryer to the lever pistons and they seized right up again; it did not take much heat at all! Dropped off at LBS and they are going to contact SRAM. We'll see how far they are willing to go. This is a 2017 bike.

  52. #552
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    OK, SRAM sent replacement levers, which includes the entire upper assembly, so levers, pistons, reservoir, etc. I asked if they gave it the hair dryer test and they said no. So I got my hair dryer out of my truck, just to make sure, and we are good to go! These are actually Level TL brakes, not Guide RS. My mistake.

  53. #553
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    I just got a set of guide brakes given to me by a buddy. He didn't want to deal with them.

    So I hopped on eBay and ordered a set of the Chinese $20 pistons to give a try.

    I hope to install them this weekend.

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  54. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    I just got a set of guide brakes given to me by a buddy. He didn't want to deal with them.

    So I hopped on eBay and ordered a set of the Chinese $20 pistons to give a try.

    I hope to install them this weekend.
    Let us know how it goes. Will you use the original seal rings or the ones supplied with the Chinese pistons?

  55. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by jusutus View Post
    Let us know how it goes. Will you use the original seal rings or the ones supplied with the Chinese pistons?
    I installed them with the ones supplied, was that a bad move?

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  56. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    I installed them with the ones supplied, was that a bad move?
    I don't know. I'm always a bit suspicious when it comes to Chinese stuff. Did you compare them to the originals visually?

  57. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by jusutus View Post
    I don't know. I'm always a bit suspicious when it comes to Chinese stuff. Did you compare them to the originals visually?
    I replaced one of my lever pistons with the Chinese aluminum pistons and it has been doing it's job for the last couple of months. Time will tell.

  58. #558
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    Are there any special tool required in addition to the Chinese pistons? I have RSC's so no snap ring AFAIK.

  59. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by jusutus View Post
    Are there any special tool required in addition to the Chinese pistons? I have RSC's so no snap ring AFAIK.
    Not really. I didn't even use snap ring pliers. Mine wouldn't reach down into the bore. I got the snap rings out with a pair of long reach needle nose pliers.

    You will need a Sram bleed kit...

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    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty

    RSC indeed does not use a snap ring. But you need to clock the contact point adjuster if you're not using the RSC rebuild tool that sets the swing links pushrods depth. Wind the contact adjuster barrel all the way in, then put 4.5 turns into the pushrod (starting with it fully tight), it's got about 5 turns before it falls out.

    A piece of 1/2" water pipe and a flat blade screw driver will help assembling the sleeve and coupler.

  61. #561
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    Got my Chinese pistons today but I think I'll replace them during the winter. Haven't had any major issues with heat so far.

  62. #562
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    My Guide R brakes starting acting up after three years of great performance. In heat they would be locked up and then nothing. Shop is replacing them under warranty. I’m picking my bike up Monday so I’ll see what they replaced them with.


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  63. #563
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    What a royal PITA...my brand new bike out of the box had Guides and the left lever is stuck down. Instead of riding my brand new bike, I'm dropping it off for warranty replacement...

    ...I think.

    It's either that, or spend another couple hundred bucks, buy some Shimanos, and be done with it.

    Been on M785 XT's for *years* and I've never had a single problem. Hell, I'm still on the factory bleed.
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  64. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8 APEKS View Post
    What a royal PITA...my brand new bike out of the box had Guides and the left lever is stuck down. Instead of riding my brand new bike, I'm dropping it off for warranty replacement...

    ...I think.

    It's either that, or spend another couple hundred bucks, buy some Shimanos, and be done with it.

    Been on M785 XT's for *years* and I've never had a single problem. Hell, I'm still on the factory bleed.
    May 2017 my Guide RS front locked up. LBS replaced both levers and they've been great since and still on same bleed a year later. The lever pull and strong springy return hasn't changed(other then pad wear) despite being 100+ in my garage at times or direct sun. Hopefully your LBS doesn't screw you and replaces your levers, like they should.

  65. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    May 2017 my Guide RS front locked up. LBS replaced both levers and they've been great since and still on same bleed a year later. The lever pull and strong springy return hasn't changed(other then pad wear) despite being 100+ in my garage at times or direct sun. Hopefully your LBS doesn't screw you and replaces your levers, like they should.
    They said SRAM sent them a box of levers and they replace them on a regular basis (he said 3 last week). I'm just scared they'll still give me issues in the heat.

    In the mean time, I put my front M785 XT on, so I can hopefully ride on Tuesday.
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  66. #566
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    Yup i bought a used but never ridden enduro for my daughter on ebay for her BDay. It basically had parking lot bike store rides on it. Lady buys it never rides it sits for year and a half Sells to me, guides done for right out of the get go when i get it. I did get it for a screaming deal but was like had you told me but shame on me i should have expected it. Luckily jensons 40 mins from house and got xts on it that day, my first world crisis averted.

    I should have known better as my sons guides went out at a park and of course paid full retail for new SLXs but whatcha gonna do when your on a vacation.

    Lesson, just swap em for any shimano and dont be stranded.

  67. #567
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    Got my fat bike back with new levers. Same Guide R as before. But they feel great. Actually better than my 29r with RSC’s


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  68. #568
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    new bike (china cheapo carbon fiber) with sram guide brakes. both front and back locked up tight on the first squeeze. online dealer should be sending me two new levers on monday. what a pita. my other bike (motobecane ti fat bike) with guides are fine other than the rear needs a bleed.

  69. #569
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    My 3 year old RSC levers suddenly started acting funny as the temps warmed. Shop said SRAM sent him a box of levers and to just replace. No questions asked. Got my bike back that afternoon. Brakes feel better than ever.


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    I have Sram DB5's on my 2017 Turbo Levo Hardtail 29er e-bike. I have grown to hate Sram brakes from other mtb's I have. These are doing the lever not returning thing. Does anyone know of a direct Shimano replacement for the 4 piston front brakes? Not even going to mess with LBS or an overhaul kit. Any information would be appreciated.

  71. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireCop View Post
    I have Sram DB5's on my 2017 Turbo Levo Hardtail 29er e-bike. I have grown to hate Sram brakes from other mtb's I have. These are doing the lever not returning thing. Does anyone know of a direct Shimano replacement for the 4 piston front brakes? Not even going to mess with LBS or an overhaul kit. Any information would be appreciated.
    SRAM very much wants to fix this, take the bike to the LBS, they should warranty them, and you *should* get new guide levers because they don't have DB5s anymore, I had to pay for the shop to bleed them though, the replacements are a lot stronger than the originals for some reason as well.

    If you want to go shimano anyway, you would want the saint series brakes for that bike.
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  72. #572
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    Does anyone know of a good specialized LBS local to Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm getting this issue now that it's summer time in Ohio. Makes climbing a lot more difficult!!!!!!

  73. #573
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    Thanks very much for the info and suggestion bbqmike !

  74. #574
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    My rear Guide RS started sticking about 6 weeks ago - UK has had a summer. Sanded down the piston and it worked, but ordered a replacement from Taiwan - arrived within a week, and replaced So far the front has been fine.

  75. #575
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    This is what can happen when the front lever locks up on you

    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty-20180625_181224.jpg

    Apologies if anyone is having breakfast while viewing this photo (!) but this is the result of my Guide R front brake locking up on me in the recent hot weather in the UK. Went to dab the front brake, along with the rear, to scrub off a bit of speed before a rocky corner and the front brake did not release. Front wheel locked up all the way into the corner, became uncontrollable, bars whipped right around, front end went down hard and I went over the bars then on to the nearest hospital to have this scrubbed out and dressed. Cost me a few days off work and a painful week of trying not to roll over on it in bed, but nothing broken and nothing that won't grow back as it should.
    This "lever sticking" problem is a pretty serious concern as far as I can see. If brake failure of any type is not seen as a warranty issue on a bicycle then I'm not sure what is really. I guess if I had more time on my hands I'd be shopping for a lawyer rather than some new brakes!

  76. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheffbiker View Post
    If brake failure of any type is not seen as a warranty issue on a bicycle then I'm not sure what is really. I guess if I had more time on my hands I'd be shopping for a lawyer rather than some new brakes!
    Sorry about your injury. I'm glad it wasn't worse, it could easily have been.

    I do agree that the response of SRAM, amd Avid before them, has been woefully inadequate. If a car manufacturer had behaved like this I reckon there would be people in jail by now.

    What I really don't get is the people who defend SRAM brakes. Sure, they may be working ok for many people once they have been modified etc but the problem is too deep to be making excuses. The behavior of SRAM has been reprehensible and there are still hundreds, probably thousands of people out there still using SRAM or Avid brakes that are potentially dangerous. In my opinion the only acceptable response is to completely boycott SRAM brake products.

    Not only refuse to buy SRAM brakes but refuse to buy a bike with SRAM brakes on it, and tell the retailer that. Or insist you'll only buy the bike if they replace the brakes free of charge. If SRAM find themselves wiped out of the brake market they might realize there are consequences to selling dangerous products and not adequately addressing the problem. It would send a clear message to them any all the other manufactures that is they don't look after us they will not get away with it.

    As it is they have no real incentive to do better. They can produce shoddy kit and get away with it because people will still buy it. I don't understand it at all.

  77. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheffbiker View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    If brake failure of any type is not seen as a warranty issue on a bicycle then I'm not sure what is really.
    They do warranty it. I think you mean recall. I've got a theory on why they haven't done a recall.

    I've had four levers replaced under warranty for this issue. The thing is, none of them just locked up without warning. They all started to feel a little off, then went into a non-returning (but not locking up - they lost all free stroke) mode before they locked up. And I mean days before they locked up. On the last lever, since it was a rear brake, I let it go until it locked up just to see. Even then, it wasn't as though when I pulled on it, I couldn't tell it was getting ready to lock up prior to the ride. So I have to ask - did your levers feel funny, or did they go from feeling like brand new to completely locked up in one brake pull on one ride? Maybe SRAM thinks people will feel this happening and stop riding the bike, since we all agree brakes are of vital importance, and have it checked out if the process to failure involves stages rather than being sudden and catastrophic.

  78. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    They do warranty it. I think you mean recall. I've got a theory on why they haven't done a recall...
    Which I cannot agree with at all. It should not be left to the end user to predict if and when his brakes will fail. He is not qualified to do that. If a user knows nothing about this issue, how are they supposed to know that it could cause total brake-lock? Most people would reasonably assume that the product is properly designed and tested and that failure mode is impossible. Which it should be.

    And besides, there isn't always warning.

    SRAM knew of the problems with their brakes and have done the absolute minimum. Not good enough, not interested in excuses and I will never buy SRAM brakes, ever.

  79. #579
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    I have a set of SRAM Level TLs that came on my EX8. They've been working fine for a couple of seasons but yesterday I noticed that I apparently have a sticking piston -- squeezing the lever leaves it loose (although it doesn't lock the wheel). After about a mile it begins working more-or-less normally. I haven't put the thing on the stand yet, but I'm guessing either the caliper pistons are stuck or it just needs a bleed. I suppose it's also possible that it's the lever piston. I'm going to jiggle the pistons and rebleed today, but I haven't really bought any bike parts so far this summer so I confess that I did order a front/rear set of Shimano XT BR M8000s. Hope they work with my Centerline rotors.

  80. #580
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    Guide RS Levers not Returning: Replaced Under Warranty

    There is no reason they wont work with your rotors. Your fine and after my sons went out i went shimanos as well. I do think that sram got this all fixed in 2017 though but anything earlier in the 2015/16 range is suspect to fail.


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    Last edited by Dropper; 07-08-2018 at 01:10 PM.

  81. #581
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    I totally agree that Sram should do a recall. With all the risk involved with brake problems it is unreasonable not to. Can not assume that end user should be able to assess for possible brake failure.


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  82. #582
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    Just buy Shimano. Job done.

    Avid/SRAM have sucked for DECADES.

    I won’t buy a bike with those branded brakes at all.




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  83. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    They do warranty it. I think you mean recall. I've got a theory on why they haven't done a recall.
    Even then, it wasn't as though when I pulled on it, I couldn't tell it was getting ready to lock up prior to the ride. So I have to ask - did your levers feel funny, or did they go from feeling like brand new to completely locked up in one brake pull on one ride? Maybe SRAM thinks people will feel this happening and stop riding the bike, since we all agree brakes are of vital importance, and have it checked out if the process to failure involves stages rather than being sudden and catastrophic.
    Mine started to feel funny, and I knew what it was based on this thread. I figured I'd put it off until winter. Stopping to chat with the bike lying in the sun, then hopping off to continue riding escalated things quickly. Temp has a big impact on this and can happen a lot quicker than over days/weeks.

  84. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravewoofer View Post
    Just buy Shimano. Job done.

    Avid/SRAM have sucked for DECADES.

    I won’t buy a bike with those branded brakes at all.




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    I'd buy a bike with them but would have shimanos already sitting on the bench ready for install the minute I got the bike home. I'd rather ride shimano entry level hydraulics (still have a set on one bike) than risk Sram failing on me.

    Sram could make good brakes but their motto is to just slap shit together to get it up for sale at a premium price. Where as shimano prefers the "if it ain't broke dont fix it, improve in it or change the look but dont risk reputation"

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    100 degrees F at the downhill Mtn last sunday. I told 2 different people that their levers did not need a bleed but were stuck due to heat and not to ride them. Almost no end users know about this issue and SRAM should do a recall.

  86. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravewoofer View Post
    Just buy Shimano. Job done.

    Avid/SRAM have sucked for DECADES.
    Totally this. Why bother debating it, just don't use the brakes. It's not as if there are no alternatives. Even if you don't like the feel of Shimano there are still plenty of options to choose from.

    What I would really like to see is people going into shops and saying 'I'm not buying that bike because it has SRAM brakes on it'. If enough people did that and it starts getting back to the bike manufacturers they might stop fitting them. Even if the current SRAM brakes are fine, I would still like to see that as it would send the message to SRAM that they can't treat their customers like shite and not face consequences.

  87. #587
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    If brakes acted like this on any automobile, the DOT would mandate a recall. Why not on bikes too.


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  88. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecanoe View Post
    If brakes acted like this on any automobile, the DOT would mandate a recall. Why not on bikes too.
    In the UK at least, there hardly seems to be any real rules about the quality levers a bike has to meet. It sounds like the US is similar. Some of the 'box bikes' sold very cheaply in supermarkets are terrible, plastic brake levers and even plastic calipers. In my opinion they are not safe but no one seems to care.

    Just look at threads like this. SRAM put dangerous brakes out year after year and what is the typical reaction? Replace them, try and get SRAM to fix them or fix them yourself. Very few people are saying 'Hang on, why is this even being allowed to happen?'.

    And I think you're correct, it comes down to lack of regulation. Car manufacturers know that if hey do not treat customer safety seriously there is a regulatory body waiting to hammer them.

  89. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Which I cannot agree with at all. It should not be left to the end user to predict if and when his brakes will fail. He is not qualified to do that. If a user knows nothing about this issue, how are they supposed to know that it could cause total brake-lock? Most people would reasonably assume that the product is properly designed and tested and that failure mode is impossible. Which it should be.

    And besides, there isn't always warning.

    SRAM knew of the problems with their brakes and have done the absolute minimum. Not good enough, not interested in excuses and I will never buy SRAM brakes, ever.
    I just said it was a theory on why they didn't do one. I didn't say it was good reason. I'm a big fan of companies doing things right. It does seem like the right thing would be a recall, but at least no one I personally know has had a hard time getting warranty levers. As for Shimano, it's the same old song and dance. I simply don't like the way they feel. I'm thinking about trying something different on my next bike, but I don't know what it'll be yet. The bike, or the brakes.

  90. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    It does seem like the right thing would be a recall, but at least no one I personally know has had a hard time getting warranty levers. As for Shimano, it's the same old song and dance.
    I am happy with Shimano brakes but I suspect that if Shimano had been the ones to suffer the issues that have effected SRAM/Avid brakes they would have behaved in more or less exactly the same way. I think that SRAM have failed to step up to their responsibilities but I believe that their attitude is typical of the majority of the industry.

  91. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    And I think you're correct, it comes down to lack of regulation.
    About the last thing we need is 'regulation' although I can see where that idea comes from.

    In the end, it comes down to the consumer. In a free market, this crap is allowed to happen only so long as the consumer signals that it is acceptable. By continually buying the crap product, be it due to apathy or ignorance, the manufacturer has zero reason or incentive to change.

    I was already not-a-fan of SRAM brakes in general but when I picked up a new Stumpy that came with Guide Rs, I didn't even have to wait for the sticking issue to realize I didn't like them. (Shitty feel in general, inadequate power for my riding style, etc.) Living in Arizona where I was riding in the afternoon in temps nearing 110 just days ago, I also knew I wasn't interested in taking any chances with the Guides. They got used for about 1-2 rides until I had the hardware on hand to swap my Shimano's over, and they have collected dust on a shelf ever since.

    In stark contrast, I know quite a few people who I have discussed the issues with and they are either not capable of giving a damn, or because they are on a different model from SRAM think that they'll be fine. And they may be, but they still end up supporting a company that has proven to be inept, and possibly full-on negligent.

    At this point it's kinda like the Ford Pinto days. If you drive one, and it explodes, it's kinda your own fault anymore... not Ford's. The issue is extremely well-known, and using that product is clearly at-your-own-risk.

    As for the Shimano feel that so many dislike, I can only implore you to try out a nice set of the new 8020's if you can find a set to demo. =)

    At the very least, there are lotsa other options if that still isn't your cup of tea.

  92. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Sorry about your injury. I'm glad it wasn't worse, it could easily have been.

    I do agree that the response of SRAM, amd Avid before them, has been woefully inadequate. If a car manufacturer had behaved like this I reckon there would be people in jail by now.

    What I really don't get is the people who defend SRAM brakes. Sure, they may be working ok for many people once they have been modified etc but the problem is too deep to be making excuses. The behavior of SRAM has been reprehensible and there are still hundreds, probably thousands of people out there still using SRAM or Avid brakes that are potentially dangerous. In my opinion the only acceptable response is to completely boycott SRAM brake products.

    Not only refuse to buy SRAM brakes but refuse to buy a bike with SRAM brakes on it, and tell the retailer that. Or insist you'll only buy the bike if they replace the brakes free of charge. If SRAM find themselves wiped out of the brake market they might realize there are consequences to selling dangerous products and not adequately addressing the problem. It would send a clear message to them any all the other manufactures that is they don't look after us they will not get away with it.

    As it is they have no real incentive to do better. They can produce shoddy kit and get away with it because people will still buy it. I don't understand it at all.
    I agree with not buying the product or supporting the company, but I also think that is preferable discipline to more regulation. Regulation ends up imposing a huge cost that only large companies can afford and it ends up being ineffective.

    I thought SRAM had to develop SRAM branded brakes because Avid had earned such a bad reputation with customers and companies that product spec the bikes?

    All that said, I was attempting to use a temporary seatpost last night and this Truvativ post had me cussing up a storm in the garage. They put heavy lock tight right where the bolts should tighten down on the rails, and the little nuts that it bolts into do not fit in slots, so it’s nearly impossible to tighten down and clamp your saddle. WTF? After becoming so frustrated with that and having read through this thread, I also decided to swear off SRAM and SRAM owned products. I was at my end over a loust saddle clamp—urrggghhh!!!

    If there is a real safety risk, as with the post above and the gnarly injury, at least in the states you can shop it to a trial attorney who specializes in bike or moto injuries. With pictures like his he should be able to attract an attorney.

    All that said, if SRAM is openly using warranty through boxes of replacements shipped to LBS, I don’t think one can craft a regulation with a better outcome, or it may have a perceived better outcome but with a huge unintended cost.




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  93. #593
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    I believe if enough of us file a complaint with the US Consumer Products Safety Commission, they'll force a recall. I'll fill this out now...
    https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMS...tIncident.aspx

  94. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    I believe if enough of us file a complaint with the US Consumer Products Safety Commission, they'll force a recall. I'll fill this out now...
    https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMS...tIncident.aspx
    I stopped as soon as it required registration and a password—safety loses.


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  95. #595
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    Do you guys know if I can get the updated lever internals warrantied if I wasn't the original purchaser of the brakes? Mine are new take-off's from a 2018 Giant Reign but the serial number starts with 22T7, which from the info above means I have Gen 1 brakes (kind of crazy since they apparently found/fixed this in 2016).

    I've ridden them hard in 95+ degree weather, lift assisted downhill, and 20+ mile rides with a few 1000+ ft descents each ride. I would have thought I would see the issue pop up by now, now that I'm reading into it.

  96. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    - did your levers feel funny, or did they go from feeling like brand new to completely locked up in one brake pull on one ride? c.
    Sorry for the delayed reply - been away working for a few days. My brakes didn't give me any warning of this lock up, but possibly because my local ride is a steep climb up then a downhill back home, and they locked up on the way back down. I think the air temperature was around 25 Celsius perhaps and the climb up under tree cover takes around 35-40 minutes, followed by a 15-20 minute downhill back to the start of the loop (my house) over open ground. It was probably a lot warmer there as it was in full sunshine and I stopped at the beginning to take a phone call for 10 minutes. So maybe the brake got hot at that point and reached the "lock up" temperature. I couldn't really tell if the brakes were dragging at the start of the descent as I was using them on and off from the beginning. I tend to only notice brake drag when I'm riding uphill mostly.
    When I recreated the effect in my back garden a few days later the brakes seemed to go from working sluggishly to total lock-on with only around 5 degrees temp difference.
    I've since sent the brakes to Sram in the UK "for inspection" and received them back with replaced lever assembly, so will fit them in the next few days and try them out to see if the issue is resolved. Sram obviously do know about the issue I'm guessing, but are not being proactive in trying to sort it out. I'm guessing they are sitting waiting to see if anyone contacts them with the issue, which I still feel is a little unreasonable on their part. I also do quite a bit of rock climbing and the attitude of most climbing gear companies now seems to be "if in doubt, issue a safety bulletin and some kind of resolution for users", this is a lot more honest and transparent I think. As a company they seem to be taking a gamble that this brake lock up will not cause any very serious (disability or death) type injuries, but I think in this day and age you get more respect from customers if you admit there was a design/manufacture problem and you have addressed it. Word does travel quickly on the internet in the biking world.

  97. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    I believe if enough of us file a complaint with the US Consumer Products Safety Commission, they'll force a recall. I'll fill this out now...
    https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMS...tIncident.aspx
    But...how can I file a complaint? My lever is a big spongy but it hasn’t caused me a problem. The brakes haven’t locked up and haven’t caused me to be injured. I’d feel a bit silly when filling in the blank “I read about it on the internet” in explaining what happened.

  98. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuyuna View Post
    But...how can I file a complaint? My lever is a big spongy but it hasn’t caused me a problem. The brakes haven’t locked up and haven’t caused me to be injured. I’d feel a bit silly when filling in the blank “I read about it on the internet” in explaining what happened.
    One option is to GoPro yourself riding “My brake lever is stuck, Oh no!!!”. and go over the bars and then file the complaint. Or just go to a shop with the box of warranty levers, tell them yours sucks, too, and ask for the replacement.


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  99. #599
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    Had my '17 Specialized Turbo Levo E-Bike in the LBS for several weeks getting the motor replaced under warranty. When Igot it back, I experienced the Sram "no return" problem on my next ride. I got to thinking, this is probably the 1st time the bike had been in air conditioning that long. Also, we are in a heck of a heat wave here (Kansas), with heat indicies @ 105 to 107.
    Anyhow, the LBS was very accomodating. New brake levers, wheel cylinders, rotor, the whole 9 yards. I did not even have to pay for install labor. I forget what Sram brake group they installed. I will check when @ my bike again. It was only the front brake that was seized, but they did the whole back assembly as well ! Much as I hate Sram products, they are taking responsibility for a bad product.

  100. #600
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    If they were responsible they would do a recall not just fix after the fact.


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