FORMULA w/aftermarket hoses ( no warranty)- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    483

    FORMULA w/aftermarket hoses ( no warranty)

    Just a heads up....maybe this is obvious but I thought I'd pass it along.

    4 months ago I purchased a set of FORMULA RX brakes
    They come with the needed hardware for shortening the lines, but rather than shortening the stock lines to fit my bike, I bought a set of JAGWIRE hoses ( yes, the RED hoses looked cooler) and cut/fit/bled and enjoyed 4 months of riding ( resonably happy with the RX's)
    This past week end my back brake lever suddenly pulled right to the bar, no rear brakes.
    I stopped and checked, NO LEAK, figured it must be a failure inside the master cylinder.

    Contacted FORMULA-USA............... My warranty is void because of the aftermarket hoses

    Edit: 2010/11/13
    In the interest of fairness, I'd like to be sure anyone taking interest in this thread has the whole story.

    Even though my initial reply from FORMULA-USA stated that:

    "Because of the aftermarket lines this is unfortunately not something that we can run under warranty for you."

    I've since been assured that the installation of aftermarket brake lines DOES NOT void the FORMULA warranty.

    Chris and Charlie ( of the company representing Formula in the U.S. ) have, via posts to this thread, as well as emails to me and even a phone call, have made their policy abundantly clear.

    The only instance in which aftermarket brake lines would effect warranty would be in a case where the lines themselves are the cause of a failure or where the act of installing them has damaged other parts of the system.

    And finally, Chris and Charlie seem to be quite dedicated to good customer service and upholding the FORMULA name .
    Last edited by scyule; 11-13-2010 at 04:21 AM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fixbikeguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    560
    That is strange. Maybe contact Jagwire and tell them to mention that their hoses may void certain warranties. Did Formula say why?

  3. #3
    Never trust a fart
    Reputation: frdfandc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    4,276
    The hose is only a partial cause to the warranty being voided. Its also the act of modifying. Manufacturers can't control quality of their systems when aftermarket parts are being used.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: subydoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    236

    Sounds Kinda Fishy....

    Not sure I consider aftermarket hoses a 'modification'.

    Seems odd that a hose would cause any problem, guess it's possible though. Maybe a different volumetric flow rate through the new hose? I dunno.

    Formula has been good to me over the years, and I have used aftermarket hoses with them with no problems.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    362
    I call BS. The master cylinder is not rocket science. If you have air in the lines, you're going to have a high flow rate as well. Do they claim that operating the brake when it needs to be bled will damage it? I doubt it.

    The fact of the matter is that they don't want to spend time/money supporting all the various combinations of modifications people may try that they're not getting paid for. Next time, just don't hand a company the rope they need to hang you with.

  6. #6
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    483
    FORULA USA's point of veiw is that aftermarket hoses consitute a MODIFICATION and even if the failure is due to a part unrelated, say a MASTERCYLINDER failure, the fact that the hoses were changed VOIDS the warranty. PERIOD.

    My feeling at this point is that if I send it in and PAY to have it repaired, I have already spent $300. plus the cost of the hoses and got 4 months out of them. If a repair with shipping costs ect, costs me $100. and I ever experience problems again, I'm throwing good money after bad....... Maybe I should take a serious look at buying something else.

    Edit: 2010/11/13
    In the interest of fairness, I'd like to be sure anyone taking interest in this thread has the whole story.

    Even though my initial reply from FORMULA-USA stated that:

    "Because of the aftermarket lines this is unfortunately not something that we can run under warranty for you."

    I've since been assured that the installation of aftermarket brake lines DOES NOT void the FORMULA warranty.

    Chris and Charlie ( of the company representing Formula in the U.S. ) have, via posts to this thread, as well as emails to me and even a phone call, have made their policy abundantly clear.

    The only instance in which aftermarket brake lines would effect warranty would be in a case where the lines themselves are the cause of a failure or where the act of installing them has damaged other parts of the system.

    And finally, Chris and Charlie seem to be quite dedicated to good customer service and upholding the FORMULA name .
    Last edited by scyule; 11-13-2010 at 04:22 AM.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Couloirman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    207
    Replace stock hoses onto brakes -> send to formula -> receive new brakes -> use aftermarket hoses again -> go biking

  8. #8
    Industry Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    287
    Hey Scyule,
    Chris here at Perigeum Development / Formula Brake USA.

    There seems to be some sort of misunderstanding or all the information is not being presented. The only case in which putting an aftermarket hose on would void your warranty would be if the problem is caused specifically by that non-Formula installed item or if that item is the actual failure point.

    That being said, MC piston failures are VERY rare with the RX brakes and what you are describing is also potentially consistent with a bad bleed on the brakes or having air in the system - possibly from not getting a good bleed post hose install?

    If you would like to set up an RA, we are more than happy to make sure your brakes are working properly. However, if the problem is that you or the bike shop did not bleed them properly after the hose install, that is not a warranty type repair and we would charge you for the bleed. I hope you find that reasonable. If it actually is an issue with the MC piston or any other part of the MC or Caliper, we are happy to fix it under warranty.

    Just give us a ring at 707.765.2770.

    Cheers,

    Chris Costello
    Perigeum Development / Formula Brake USA

  9. #9
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,024
    swapping aftermarket hoses onto a brake should not void a warranty unless the hose/connector were damaged because of it. If the M/C or some other part of the brake took a crap (like it did) it makes no sense that they wouldn't cover it because of brake lines.

    edit, just saw the post above....
    nice to see customer service to the rescue

  10. #10
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    483
    Chris,
    My FIRST answer from FORMULA USA was
    "Because of the aftermarket lines this is unfortunately not something that we can run under warranty for you. "
    and
    " It is extremely rare for the RX to have a piston problem if that does turn out to be that problem I will see what we can do about taking care of you at least on the parts."



    I have spoken to Charlie again and he thinks that even with 4 months of riding ( since installing the aftermarket lines) without incident before a sudden failure that is could still be a "bad bleed" and that an air bubble could be the culprit.

    I'm going to have to borrow a bleed kit and bleed it and see what happens.

    Edit: 2010/11/13
    In the interest of fairness, I'd like to be sure anyone taking interest in this thread has the whole story.

    Even though my initial reply from FORMULA-USA stated that:

    "Because of the aftermarket lines this is unfortunately not something that we can run under warranty for you."

    I've since been assured that the installation of aftermarket brake lines DOES NOT void the FORMULA warranty.

    Chris and Charlie ( of the company representing Formula in the U.S. ) have, via posts to this thread, as well as emails to me and even a phone call, have made their policy abundantly clear.

    The only instance in which aftermarket brake lines would effect warranty would be in a case where the lines themselves are the cause of a failure or where the act of installing them has damaged other parts of the system.

    And finally, Chris and Charlie seem to be quite dedicated to good customer service and upholding the FORMULA name .
    Last edited by scyule; 11-13-2010 at 04:22 AM.

  11. #11
    Industry Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    287
    Scyule,
    As I mentioned, we are happy to take care of you - just give us a ring. Charlie knows our policy and we deal with AM installed non-Formula parts accordingly.

    It is quite possible for a bad bleed to go unnoticed for a period of time. Here is why: as the pads wear, the caliper pistons rest closer to the rotor requiring more fluid in the caliper. This fluid is fed into the MC/Hose/Caliper from the reservoir and when this occurs, the fluid level in the reservoir drops. Subsequently any air bubbles hiding in there could be introduced into the MC piston area as the fluid level in the reservoir drops, which will then have an impact on your lever feel. When air bubbles are only in your reservoir, the brake will function normal and seem to be fine, but as soon as they are introduced elsewhere in the system, that is when you will experience lever sponginess or if if there is enough air - no contact point at all. If our brakes are bled properly there is no air in the system at all and the diaphragm in the reservoir expands inward to compensate for the fluid level reduction as pads wear.

    Before bleeding the brake again, give us a call in the office and we will give ya a quick tip or two which may help us get to the bottom of the problem quicker. There may be a few other things we can check off as possible causes before you do any more work on the brakes.

    Cheers,

    Chris

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    56
    Nothing too add but would like to share a comment.

    I get about 90 to 95% of my bike buying decisions from reading this forum. What ever my LBS or friends say I come back to these forums just to double check.

    Its always nice to see someone from the company doing rounds on these sites. For all I know the Formula rep could be bogus and The complaint could also bogus and its a marketing scam by formula to show how good their customer service is.

    I doubt that, thats a lot of work to go through.

    I wish more manufactures would answer their warranty issues on this website.

    P.S. Planing on replacing my XT with R1 when 2011 become available in China. I was going to change the cables to Jagwire to keep the same color scheme. I am very interested i seeing how this ends up.

  13. #13
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    483
    Quote Originally Posted by Perigeum Development
    Scyule,
    As I mentioned, we are happy to take care of you - just give us a ring. Charlie knows our policy and we deal with AM installed non-Formula parts accordingly.

    It is quite possible for a bad bleed to go unnoticed for a period of time. Here is why: as the pads wear, the caliper pistons rest closer to the rotor requiring more fluid in the caliper. This fluid is fed into the MC/Hose/Caliper from the reservoir and when this occurs, the fluid level in the reservoir drops. Subsequently any air bubbles hiding in there could be introduced into the MC piston area as the fluid level in the reservoir drops, which will then have an impact on your lever feel. When air bubbles are only in your reservoir, the brake will function normal and seem to be fine, but as soon as they are introduced elsewhere in the system, that is when you will experience lever sponginess or if if there is enough air - no contact point at all. If our brakes are bled properly there is no air in the system at all and the diaphragm in the reservoir expands inward to compensate for the fluid level reduction as pads wear.

    Before bleeding the brake again, give us a call in the office and we will give ya a quick tip or two which may help us get to the bottom of the problem quicker. There may be a few other things we can check off as possible causes before you do any more work on the brakes.

    Cheers,

    Chris

    I just got back from dropping the brake off with a friend who has a bleed kit. Unfortunately I acted on the info I had already been given and just read the above reply now.
    Once it's bled I'll get it back on the bike and see how things are.
    Should there still be an issue, I'll call you, Chris.

  14. #14
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    483
    Edit: 2010/11/13

    In the interest of fairness, I'd like to be sure anyone taking interest in this thread has the whole story.

    Even though my initial reply from FORMULA-USA stated that:

    "Because of the aftermarket lines this is unfortunately not something that we can run under warranty for you."

    I've since been assured that the installation of aftermarket brake lines DOES NOT void the FORMULA warranty.

    Chris and Charlie ( of the company representing Formula in the U.S. ) have, via posts to this thread, as well as emails to me and even a phone call, have made their policy abundantly clear.

    The only instance in which aftermarket brake lines would effect warranty would be in a case where the lines themselves are the cause of a failure or where the act of installing them has damaged other parts of the system.

    And finally, Chris and Charlie seem to be quite dedicated to good customer service and upholding the FORMULA name .

  15. #15
    PSYCHOLUST
    Reputation: scyule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    483
    For anyone not completely bored with this saga yet..... I bled and reinstalled the brakes and they are the same... the lever drops to the bar.........on to the next step

  16. #16
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,516
    Quote Originally Posted by scyule
    For anyone not completely bored with this saga yet..... I bled and reinstalled the brakes and they are the same... the lever drops to the bar.........on to the next step
    Not bored here! I am very interested how this plays out. I have a new set of RX's and I have recommended them to people now I hope they stand behind them. It will help to decide my future with formula as well.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.