Carbon-Ti and Magnisium BB7's!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Carbon-Ti and Magnisium BB7's!

    OK, just a wish, sorry for the tease

    I swear, if the BB7's were lighter I'd change over all my hydraulics to BB7 mechanicals...

    I like the modulation better and the fact that if you have a problem on the trail you have at least a chance of repairing it... opposed to hydraulic brakes where you ride home singe braking...

    I do love my new XTR hydraulics, but I just like the direct input of mechanicals!

    CJS
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade
    OK, just a wish, sorry for the tease

    I swear, if the BB7's were lighter I'd change over all my hydraulics to BB7 mechanicals...

    I like the modulation better and the fact that if you have a problem on the trail you have at least a chance of repairing it... opposed to hydraulic brakes where you ride home singe braking...

    I do love my new XTR hydraulics, but I just like the direct input of mechanicals!

    CJS
    You can make them very competitive weight wise via levers, rotors, ti bolts, housing, cables with no waiting for Avid to come out with a lighter version.

    I have 3 sets of the type N caliper which weighs 138g compared to the BB7 later version which weighs 155g (I have 1 set of those).

    Looking at real weights for a front brake [weight includes lever, lever bolts, hose, fluid, caliper, pads but no adapter, no caliper bolts, no rotor, no rotor bolts]:

    Avid Juicy 7: 266g
    Avid Elixir R: 246g
    Avid Elixir CR: 250g
    Avid Juicy Ultimate: 219g (with trimmed housing length)
    Avid BB7 (type N)/Avid Ultimate levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 267g
    Avid BB7 (type N)/Paul Love levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 251g
    Avid BB7 (type N)/Extralite Ultra levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 225g
    Avid BB7 (type N)/KCNC levers/PowerCordz cable/iLink housing/liner: 214g

    If running the current BB7's - add 13 to 17g for the above over the 2nd Generation Type N (the lightest ever caliper from the Avid mechanical disc to date) to get your "competitive weight".

    If you go a bit deeper with $$$, you can change out the bolts to Ti, get Windcutter or Airotors and dial in a very competitive weight wise set up with the BB7's. But as you can see, if you pony up for the right levers and housing - you can be right at or near the Juicy Ultimate weight using the mechanical discs. Pretty cool and that's what I did (I did not do Ti bolts as I kept the stock bolts). Not total weight weenie, but a pair of BB7 brakes at 800g (includes rotors, levers, housing, cables, calipers, pads, adapters) isn't too bad at all in the competitive weight realm. Of course, it costs $$$. But so would a carbon ti magnesium, etc... .

    Since those don't exist, the only way is to tune the set up. I use avid sintered pads, Alligator Windcutter 160mm up front, 140mm rear, Jagwire Ripcord cables/housing, Paul Love Levers and Avid Speed Dial Ultimate Levers on my bikes.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/4085993147/" title="RaceLightDos by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4085993147_c10f89a218_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="RaceLightDos" /></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/4093747667/" title="RIPit by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2535/4093747667_4e02bbf201_b.jpg" width="1024" height="767" alt="RIPit" /></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/3662070031/" title="NoTubes Volume by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3362/3662070031_25fa968f92_b.jpg" width="1024" height="818" alt="NoTubes Volume" /></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/3634664194/" title="Sugar2009 by singingsingletracker, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3634664194_2d75f0696d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="746" alt="Sugar2009" /></a>

    Of if you want to use the machine shop and go Ninja Tuning on the BB7's, you can DIY some lighter calipers like Andred did.

    BB

  3. #3
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    As an aerospace guy Ti and Carbon aren't always all they are cracked up to be and everyone ought to know exactly what a couple grams are before they go sweating over the numbers.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer
    As an aerospace guy Ti and Carbon aren't always all they are cracked up to be and everyone ought to know exactly what a couple grams are before they go sweating over the numbers.
    Ya, tell that to the Formula 1 guys, without Ti, Carbon, Al and Mag, a F1 car would be one of those POS Neckcars (Nascar).

    Not sure what "cracked up" means, but these advances materials, when used correctly can make a bike much light, stronger and stiffer, etc......But you are an aerospace guy, so you already know that (I assume). btw, this doesn't mean adding a small carbon part for $100 to save 10 grams makes any sense, it all depends on where you draw the line or what your budget is.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer
    As an aerospace guy Ti and Carbon aren't always all they are cracked up to be and everyone ought to know exactly what a couple grams are before they go sweating over the numbers.

    Hey! I mentioned magnesium!

    Agreed though, use best materials for best application... just a hint to Avid
    Largest NorCal XC Race Series
    http://www.bicyclingevents.com
    http://www.UavTechReview.com
    Best in the West!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodH
    Ya, tell that to the Formula 1 guys, without Ti, Carbon, Al and Mag, a F1 car would be one of those POS Neckcars (Nascar).

    Not sure what "cracked up" means, but these advances materials, when used correctly can make a bike much light, stronger and stiffer, etc......But you are an aerospace guy, so you already know that (I assume). btw, this doesn't mean adding a small carbon part for $100 to save 10 grams makes any sense, it all depends on where you draw the line or what your budget is.
    And that is my point. Appropriate / correct use is often neglicted in favor of negligable weight savings for massive cost increase. Of course there is always the BLING factor.

    Performance especially in terms of durability often suffers.

    I wouldn't exactly include Aluminum but did intend to include Magnesium in my initial response.

  7. #7
    Meh.
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    If you tune a lightweight hydraulic with Ti/aluminum bolts and light rotors, you'd save weight too... Not sayin... but just sayin...

  8. #8
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    Thanks for reminding me. I've got a set of Type Ns in storage. I did a full Ti bolt conversion before adding new pads and rebuilding the calipers. Since my XTR hydros on Alligator WindCutters is making a terrible "click" at every serration, I've got to do something. It's probably chewing up my pads and braking sucks.

    I've got an XTR 140 on back with an Alligator WindCutter. It slows down the wheel, but it certainly does not stop the wheel, even in loose dirt.

  9. #9
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    Has anybody successfully removed the two steel bolts running through the BB7's caliper body and replaced them with alu bolts?

    I've seen ti bolts run there with no problems, am wondering if I can run the lighter alu bolts without issue.

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