BB7, Juicy 3, Shimano SLX or Hayes Stroker Trail- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    BB7, Juicy 3, Shimano SLX or Hayes Stroker Trail

    They are somewhat similarly priced (SLX is way more though, but I can get them for $80 each new) and I want/neeed new brakes. I got a new wheelset and my brakes are dun fukked up! If you caan list some good brakes from $45-$80, it would be appreciated.

    Thank ya,
    Andy
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  2. #2
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    i say bb7's. thats what i will be upgrading to next.

  3. #3
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    Of the options you listed I vote BB7.
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  4. #4
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    BB7's for the rock solid simplicity , excellent value .

  5. #5
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    3 out of 3 say BB7's. The jury's out, It sounds like we have come to a final decision....You may also consider some Avid Speed dial 7 levers with the BB7's
    Last edited by gsxunv04; 06-19-2010 at 09:37 AM.

  6. #6
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    I already got SD7 levers.

    I rode a nice (IMHO) Cannondale RZ 120 4 earlier, and a Cannondale Rize 4 (I think it was a Rize 4). The RZ 120 had Shimano Deore BR-M486 disc brakes which I loved and the Rize 4 had Juicy 3's. The fork was fukkked up on the Rize, so I couldn't really see what the front brake could do. It was the squishiest fork EVER. It suuucked!!!!!!!!!!
    Anyways, I'm now considering the BR-M486 brakes. I could do stoppies with one finger braking. If I could test out the Juicys on a better bike, I would be able to make a better decision (if there is one). I know that the BR-M486 brakes are pretty low end Shimano, but I really liked them.
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonys
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  7. #7
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    slx.
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  8. #8
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    I have Shimano hydros on my bike and just this morning put some Hayes Stroker Trails on my wife's bike to replace her BB5s. Huge improvement and very nice brakes. I really like being able to adjust lever position without tools, though once it's set you don't really need to mess with it.

    I've ridden a few bikes with BB7s and messed with my wife's BB5s enough to have a decent feel for them, and to me (notice I said to me, meaning my opinion) any decent set of hydros is a whole league above in terms of feel.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJETT
    I have Shimano hydros on my bike and just this morning put some Hayes Stroker Trails on my wife's bike to replace her BB5s. Huge improvement and very nice brakes. I really like being able to adjust lever position without tools, though once it's set you don't really need to mess with it.

    I've ridden a few bikes with BB7s and messed with my wife's BB5s enough to have a decent feel for them, and to me (notice I said to me, meaning my opinion) any decent set of hydros is a whole league above in terms of feel.
    What Shimano hydros do you have?

    Do you like the feel of the Stroker Trails more than your Shimanos?



    NEW QUESTION: What is a better deal? Shimano SLX M665 Fr/R for $164 without rotors or Hayes Stroker Carbons Fr/R for $190 with rotors?
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  10. #10
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    I have the LX dual-control levers with LX calipers. I haven't ridden the Hayes enough to say I like them better, but I do like that the Hayes pull the pads back much further than mine and the lever design feels better also. Once the pads really bed in I have a feeling I'll buy a set for my bike and get away from the dual control levers with some XT triggers.

  11. #11
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    I want to avoid dual control. IMO, they look cheesy, and if the shifter breaks, you have to replace both units and rebleed the brakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonys
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  12. #12
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    Mine came on my bike (it was a new build from a local guy) and it took a few rides but I did get used to them. If I switch, I'll probably get away from Shimano calipers too which means shifters/levers/calipers and for the amount of money required, it's a minimal gain to me. I actually think the dual controls have more give so they get damaged less often due to pivoting on 2 axes.
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  13. #13
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    BB7's

    Toughest brakes, imo.
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  14. #14
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    bb7
    need more bikes...

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    I have had both BB7s and currently, Hayes Stroker Trails.

    While I enjoyed the feel and hassle free performance of the BB7s, the Stroker Trails absolutely blow them away in terms of modulation, power, and overall consistency. I used to really enjoy the "tight" and direct feeling that my BB7 and XTR levers gave, but after putting 100+ trail miles on my Strokers I could never go back to mechanicals. The ability to lock up a brake with a single finger is something that I never really thought that I would care for, but it was something I immediately noticed as huge improvement over the BB7s. My hands are much less fatigued on the trails now as I really only have 2 fingers on the lever at any given time, regardless of the terrain.


    Considering the fact that you can get a set of Hayes Stroker Trails for under $120, I HAVE to recommend them to the fullest degree.

  16. #16
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    Is a set of Trails for $120 a better deal than Stroker Carbons complete, front and rear, with rotors for $190?
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonys
    Its still just the push of a button away...
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    I just got a pair of Juicy 3.........

    I just got a pair of Juicy 3, I got them new from eBay, I had my LBS do the installation for me & I picket up the bike last night after work, (I did not get to ride the bike)
    This morning riding to work & trying out the brakes, I was disappointed!!! the front brake was just not stopping, the pads are closing on the rotors, but no braking power at all, the rear is a little better, but still not as good as I was thinking Juicy 3 will be.

    Do they need some time to brake in?????

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by arielDB
    Do they need some time to brake in?????
    I think so. If they are anything like car brake pads, you will need to let them bed in before you realize full stopping power. How much bedding in (if any) probably depends on the material of the pads, but I don't know the differences.

    See if they get better as you ride a few times.

  19. #19
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    You need to do around 40 HARD stops to break them in, no matter what kind they are. All pads take some time to break in. I think the sintered metallic pads take the longest
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonys
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  20. #20
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    Ok cool thanks for the help guys

    Quote Originally Posted by hardtailkid
    You need to do around 40 HARD stops to break them in, no matter what kind they are. All pads take some time to break in. I think the sintered metallic pads take the longest


    Ok cool thanks for the help guys. I hope these brakes will be good for me and work well, because Iím done spending $$ on my bike, (my wife wants to kill me)

    I got the brakes NEW!!! For $79, but with no rotors.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by arielDB

    I got the brakes NEW!!! For $79, but with no rotors.
    Well there's your problem. You ought to consider buying some rotors.

  22. #22
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    As a BB7 user, I say SLX if you can spend them money and don't ride in very cold conditions. The SLX have a really nice feel.

  23. #23
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    Well the guy at my LBS..........

    Quote Originally Posted by popsicleian
    Well there's your problem. You ought to consider buying some rotors.
    Well the guy at my LBS, one of the best in Brooklyn NY that did the installation told me that the old rotors that I have on the bike, Promax Disc will be good to use & there's no problem useing them. & most guys on MTBR have told me that as well.

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    Well today after work I went to my LBS,

    Well today after work I went to my LBS, the guy that did the brakes on my bike told me to give it some time to brake in, & that getting the brakes wet & then riding the bike will be good for braking it in, So it did rain today in NYC so I got to ride back home in the rain. Ill see how it goes

  25. #25
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    BB7's are the LAST set of brakes I would want out of all of those.

    FFS, if you havn't tried all the brakes on the list, DONT just "recommened" BB7's.

    Un-bel-eivable. It brings me to tears the amount of BB7's huggers on this forum.

    Juicy 3's blow BB7's out of the water. No comparison. Hayes Stroker also blow BB7's out of the water, no comparison.

    For the love of god, don't get BB7's. Juicy3's or Stroker and you will be in heaven.

    I have used all 3, in comparison to Juicy 3's and Stroker BB7's are CRAP. Thats right, they are CRAP. The only reason people recommened BB7's is because thats all they know, or they obviously havn't tried anything better.

  26. #26
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    I have owned BB7s and Stroker Trails.

    If I had to start over, I'd just buy the BB7s. To me, they have the same stopping power and the same modulation as the Strokers. The BB7s come with the advantage of running an easy to fix mech cable and my choice of levers. The Hayes levers are poorly designed- they are very easy to bend.

    The advantage of the Hayes are that you can adjust the reach of the levers as standard. Oh, and you can feel smug about having hydros. Really, that's all I can think of.

    I have tried a bike with Juicy 5s, and the brakes sucked despite all the tuning that the owner tried. So no way would I ever be tempted with Jucy 3s.

  27. #27
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    I have bikes currently that have most of the brakes you have listed.

    #1 - SC Superlight - SLX - So far my favorite hydro's to date.
    #2 - DBR XR4 - BB7 - Very good mechanical's
    #3 - Diamondback Sortie - Juicy 3's - these were terrible on the Superlight (turkey warble), however so far on the DB they are working quite well though the front lever is leaking for some unknown reason and the breakaway feature worked but now the levers will not go back to the original position and are too far away from the bar for my liking.
    #4 - SC Bullit - Hayes (unknown model) - This bike I just picked up so I have no good or bad things to report on the Hayes.

    Bottomline get the SLX of the 3 they are by far the most amazing!
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  28. #28
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    If you wipe your rotors with de-natured alcohol and then wipe clean with wet newspaper or brown paper towel(you want no lint, hence the paper products) your brakes will bed in quicker.
    This is a tip I picked up along the way....give it a shot

  29. #29
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    I previously had BB7 brakes on my bike and just picked up a set of juicy 3's. So far I am loving the juicy 3's. The BB7 were great, they had great power when set up correctly and the modulation was good as well. Initially the Juicy 3's did not seem to have as much power but after sorting through threads on here I saw several recommendations to change from the organic pads that come stock in the calipers. After changing to avid semi-metallic pads these brakes have really come into their own. Plenty of power and great modulation. I was a BB7 beleiver but I dont think I can go back after trying even these low level hydros. The lever feel, modulation and power all top my previous BB7 set up (jag ripcords, SD7 levers, G2 rotors). I also got the Juicy 3's for less than what it would cost for a new set of BB7's with levers and good cables. In my opinion you should also replace the rotors on BB7's right away as the stock roundagons stink. Taking that all into consideration I dont see why one would not want to go hydro for the low prices they can be had right now. Unless of course you prefer the feel of BB7's which I can understand and they do perform really well when set up correctly. I would go with a hydro set up but YMMV.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_neon
    BB7's are the LAST set of brakes I would want out of all of those.

    FFS, if you havn't tried all the brakes on the list, DONT just "recommened" BB7's.

    Un-bel-eivable. It brings me to tears the amount of BB7's huggers on this forum.

    Juicy 3's blow BB7's out of the water. No comparison. Hayes Stroker also blow BB7's out of the water, no comparison.

    For the love of god, don't get BB7's. Juicy3's or Stroker and you will be in heaven.

    I have used all 3, in comparison to Juicy 3's and Stroker BB7's are CRAP. Thats right, they are CRAP. The only reason people recommened BB7's is because thats all they know, or they obviously havn't tried anything better.
    Your post is as pointless as just recommending BB7.

    The problem with BB7 is that there are many options regarding cable housing and levers which have a pretty big impact on how the brakes work. It is extremely difficult to compare apples to apples. You may have used a bad combo or are just incompetent in setting them up? Nobody knows. My results with BB7 are very good. They are on par or better compared to Elixir's (on par) and LX (better) brakes.

    There are other reasons for choosing one system over another. Some people may not have a proper place to work with toxic liquids or can't store them for example.

  31. #31
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    I do think there are way too many BB7 huggers on these forums. It starts to get annoying when they say their brakes blow everyones away, yet they are still on their first set of brakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonys
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtailkid
    I do think there are way too many BB7 huggers on these forums. It starts to get annoying when they say their brakes blow everyones away, yet they are still on their first set of brakes.
    You have the same attitude with other products as well. If you want to get usable information on a message board you either need to ask pretty specific questions or read a lot.

  33. #33
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    I will also concur that there is too much of a love fest for BB7s around here.

    I have used them for hundreds of miles (w/ jagwire ripcord full housing) and have no complaints about their performance. However, the stopping power vs a well setup hydro brake is no-contest in favor of hydros. Its a matter of hydraulic vs mechanical leverage, and Hydraulic will always be more efficient.

    That being said, I think most BB7 Huggers either afraid / incapable of bleeding and setting them up correctly on their own. or are satisfied with their BB7s to a point which they have no desire to try anything else.

    There is nothing wrong with either side of that debate, however, being a homer is always annoying.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by arielDB
    Well the guy at my LBS, one of the best in Brooklyn NY that did the installation told me that the old rotors that I have on the bike, Promax Disc will be good to use & there's no problem useing them. & most guys on MTBR have told me that as well.
    It was a joke. I'm sure the other rotors are fine.

  35. #35
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    id rather be beat over the head with my stroker trails than have to use bb7's again!

    bb7's are more upkeep and maintenance than hydro brakes. you install hydros and thats it. nothing more, no adjusting, no knobs, nothing. they just work. theres nothing you can do to remove that cable brake feel anyway. theres a reason 99% of all high end bikes come with good hydros! if bb7's were that good, you'd see them on more bikes.

    j3's are the worst brake avid makes.. j5's are cheap now, theres no reason to consider j3's. they have a good feel, but many people have issues keeping them quiet.

    im satisfied with my stroker trails. they're nothing fantastic, but if i remember right you're a very light rider. strokers would have MONSTER power for a light rider! ive never had an issue with modulation either, very stable and predictable brake.

  36. #36
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    I'm getting too pissed off about my brakes to even ride. They rub no matter what the hell I do, and just a few minutes ago while I was riding, I hit the front brake and it sounded like the pads were chewing on the rotor. It was the most unpleasant sound (other than my rear brake howling like a dog) yet! They just suck too damn badly. I can tolerate alot, but these brakes are just terrible. I should sell them on pinkbike
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonys
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  37. #37
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    You can get a set of J5's here for what seems like a good price.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Avid-Juicy-5...item563d7fd50b

    And the Hayes Stroker deal at Jenson looks pretty good as well but I dont think it includes rotors.

    Blue Sky has J7's and Shimano SLX for for $100 per end. The juicy's say front only but you can cut a new hose and get another adapter and use them on the rear.

    I got my J3's for under $100 both front and rear with rotors off of fleabay. I guess it depends on how much you want to spend. Search around because there are tons of deals to be had on low to mid level hydros. That deal for the J5's looks pretty good to me.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtailkid
    Is a set of Trails for $120 a better deal than Stroker Carbons complete, front and rear, with rotors for $190?
    New rotors will cost you around $20 to $30 a piece so that deal on the carbons seems pretty good considering you get rotors.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by arielDB
    Well today after work I went to my LBS, the guy that did the brakes on my bike told me to give it some time to brake in, & that getting the brakes wet & then riding the bike will be good for braking it in, So it did rain today in NYC so I got to ride back home in the rain. Ill see how it goes

    That's a terrible idea. Getting them wet to break them in?

    What you need is a bunch of hard stops. It's called the bed-in process - it fills microscopic pores in the rotor with pad material and mates the two surfaces.
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  40. #40
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    After my wife getting a few rides in on her new Stroker Trails (both road and trails) I rode it for a couple of minutes last night and was really impressed. Great stopping power, good feel, I actually like them better than my LX hydros, though part of that might be me having 160s and she has 180s though her's is a 29er and mine is a 26.

    I'm probably going to pick up a set while they're $60/each and switch to trigger shifters at the same time.
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  41. #41
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    Stroker Trails have better modulation than BB7s.

    BB7s have more power. Trails have less power but enough to get the job done.

    The Trails are a pain to set-up/bleed but patience yeilds excellent results.

    BB7s are a breeze to set up, but will require frequent adjustments.

    Trails are set and forget, but it is easier to maintain rub free performance with BB7s.

    I have no experience with SLX.

    My experience with BB7 was combo'd with Hayes Rotors.
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  42. #42
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    bb7's are much harder and more complicated to setup than strokers! strokers have no cps washers, no knobs, no adjustments.. you toss them on, center them by eye and ride off. thats the beauty of decent hydros, they're just care free.

  43. #43
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    Are BB7's the heaviest option?

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    bb7's are much harder and more complicated to setup than strokers! strokers have no cps washers, no knobs, no adjustments.. you toss them on, center them by eye and ride off. thats the beauty of decent hydros, they're just care free.

    CPS washers forces you to use proper technique to center your caliper. I use the same technique to center my trails.
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  45. #45
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    Even better, I use CPS on my wife's Stroker Trails. I like the adjustability.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJETT
    Even better, I use CPS on my wife's Stroker Trails. I like the adjustability.
    Doesn't that change your caliper height? Do you have to use them with the avid adapter as well?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Doesn't that change your caliper height? Do you have to use them with the avid adapter as well?
    Yes, I'm using them with the Avid adapters. Perfect fit.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    bb7's are much harder and more complicated to setup than strokers! strokers have no cps washers, no knobs, no adjustments.. you toss them on, center them by eye and ride off. thats the beauty of decent hydros, they're just care free.
    ...until you're sitting there with a flashlight and a file cursing whoever faced your brake tabs.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Are BB7's the heaviest option?
    For the 2010's they are 384g. Heavy, yes. No idea about the others.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Are BB7's the heaviest option?
    I swapped BB7s on in place of some troublesome Stroker Trails. I could feel the BB7 caliper alone was than the Hayes caliper, hose, and lever together. But for me, the big difference is that the BB7s have been trouble free. The Hayes brakes, not so much, I was constantly fighting a sticky piston until I gave up on them. I've been tempted to toss a rebuild kit in and give them another shot, but just haven't gotten around to it.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    id rather be beat over the head with my stroker trails than have to use bb7's again!

    bb7's are more upkeep and maintenance than hydro brakes. you install hydros and thats it. nothing more, no adjusting, no knobs, nothing. they just work. theres nothing you can do to remove that cable brake feel anyway. theres a reason 99% of all high end bikes come with good hydros! if bb7's were that good, you'd see them on more bikes.

    j3's are the worst brake avid makes.. j5's are cheap now, theres no reason to consider j3's. they have a good feel, but many people have issues keeping them quiet.

    im satisfied with my stroker trails. they're nothing fantastic, but if i remember right you're a very light rider. strokers would have MONSTER power for a light rider! ive never had an issue with modulation either, very stable and predictable brake.

    Now my experience is just the opposite.
    I installed BB7s and the only thing I've had to do is occasionally dial the knobs and replace the pads once in a while. No changes to setup. No issues. I don't count turning a knob once every three or five rides to be an issue. Never had to take them off. Never had to realign anything.

    The Hayes Stroker Carbons that came on my newer bike have been on it a year.
    They have been bleed twice and I probably need to do the front again as it is getting soft.
    I had to realign them once when I went to 7" rotors so I won't count that.
    But I've had to realign them at least twice in addition to that and that doesn't count pushing the pistons back in to try and reset them when they get to rubbing on one side or the other for no apparent reason.

    They worked great for about six months but after that the maintenace level has been high compared to the BB7s.

  52. #52
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    rotors never go back on perfect after you remove the wheel. they even have tension keeping skewers to try to remedy this. its kind of a problem with disc brakes in general. you remove the wheel, you're going to have to recenter any brake.

    with hydros with no cps washer, you loosen the 2 bolts, spin the wheel and center the caliper so it doesnt rub. tighten the bolts and ride away. ive done the business card/feeler gauge alignment trick and found that centering it by eye works better, makes less noise, and has no difference in power.. but doing this is impossible with any CPS brake, and with bb7's you have to just restart the entire centering procedure.. at which point are your brakes at exactly the same sweet spot as before? probably not. bb7's are so picky about inboard/outboard alignment.

    you might have had a leaky/faulty brake. it happens.. once you get it sorted, you wont have those problems anymore. my 08 strokers havent been bled yet, all though they should have been just for the sake of keeping fresh fluid in them.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    rotors never go back on perfect after you remove the wheel. they even have tension keeping skewers to try to remedy this. its kind of a problem with disc brakes in general. you remove the wheel, you're going to have to recenter any brake.
    Quit making things hard on yourself, all you need is one of these -> http://www.1upusa.com/quicknuts.html

    I prefer to never have to recenter a post mount brake, because eventually I'm sure to screw up the threads and have to break out the drill and heli-coils.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  54. #54
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    I almost never have any rub due to differences in skewer tensiong with the BB7s. If I do then most likely the wheel isn't seated correctly and opening and closing the skewer with the bike on the wheels fixes it. I usually put the wheels on that way anyway so it isn't an issue. I don't find them picky at all. It seems instead that there is enough tolerance in the system that recentering isn't required.

    I don't have a lot of problems with the skewer tension with the Strokers taking a wheel off and putting it back on but enough that I try to avoid taking the wheels off for transport if I can help it.

    The Stroker Carbons don't have as much tolerance as the BB7s.

    If one of the pistons is at all lazy then no mater how well you center the caliper one brake pad will end up resting against the rotor while the other one does all the movement.
    When you bleed them, at least according to the Hayes vid you take the calipers off the mounts. That means you get to go through the recentering process again and not just recentering but realigning as well. You can get it finger tight on a by eye alignment but it is difficult to actually lock them down without movement that screws your setup unless you are using some sort of shims.

    Then you run it around the parking lot and brake a few times and your perfect alignment, center and adjustment from the test stand starts rubbing in spite of the fact that you did a dozen wheel spins and stops on the stand.

    From what I've seen on the forums and my own early experience with the Strokers when they work well they are pretty good. They seem to have more than their share of problems however. Some of that may be the obvious, people who have problems with equipment are more likely to post about it than folks that have a trouble free ride. Even allowing for that it seems there are enough of the same issues coming from a lot of different sources.

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    I dunno how you guys set up your brakes, but Ive been running bb7's, and if you know just how to set them up, you can get single finger braking that is easily as powerfull as the average hydro, and feels pretty nice too, with extremely short throw. Unfortunately I see most people dont set their brakes up to generate that much power, and then go forth to say that they are simply less powerfull. At this point the only brakes Id trust to change out my bb7's for are avid elixr cr's. BB7s are heavy, yes, but they lack no power or modulation if set up correctly (again, single finger braking). In fact I have a friend who is afraid to ride my bike for cause of the brakes.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    Quit making things hard on yourself, all you need is one of these -> http://www.1upusa.com/quicknuts.html
    I will have to agree, nothing on myself is hard with the assistance of a quicknut.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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    I have strokers.
    I take my front wheel off every time I go ride, and do not have any issue with caliper re-centering when I put my wheel back on. (Bontrager race disc wheel with Talas fork).
    If you think about it, why should there be a problem? The fork drop outs should rest against the axle nut in the same spot every time. And skewer tension, even without one of those quick nuts (which look pretty cool), should be pretty consistent each time just from feel.
    I have readjusted my alignment maybe a couple of times in the last year, and it is really no big deal, not as frustrating as archer describes above.

  58. #58
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    With the BB7's I will further emphasize the importance of the cables. If the cables are dirty or kinked, the BB7's have a pretty poor feel. I highly recommend running full length cable housings, as it greatly reduces dirty getting in the cables and eliminates friction points of the cable entering/exiting the housing multiple times. It's definitely a worthy effort with these brakes.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroguy
    With the BB7's I will further emphasize the importance of the cables. If the cables are dirty or kinked, the BB7's have a pretty poor feel. I highly recommend running full length cable housings, as it greatly reduces dirty getting in the cables and eliminates friction points of the cable entering/exiting the housing multiple times. It's definitely a worthy effort with these brakes.
    Hmm, I always figure full length housing ADDS friction. I could see it being necessary if you live in a really wet muddy area, but for a lot of people, I think full housing would not help. A good cable set includes decent ferrules that keep the crud out.

  60. #60
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    What people are missing here is that with the bb7's its not just low friction full length housings that matter (and they matter everywhere, since just dust is enough to crud up cable systems at least a little). What actually matters is full length COMPRESSIONLESS housings. Those would be nokon systems, avid full metal jacket, flak jacket, or even my oddysey linear slik cables. All of these systems can improve the bb7 brake strength by about 30 to 40%, or in the worst to best case scenario, over 50%. Other critical points are rotors and levers. An average v-brake lever will cost you about 20 to 30% of available power, and rotors can increase braking power by about 20% over the crapagon rotors. Brake pads (sintered) also make a good difference but are noisy as hell, and I think I will be replacing them soon and going back to organics and a nokon system. Again what steals the most power from these brakes is not friction but rather cable flex. A question though. Has anyone here used avid bb7s (properly like I just mentioned) and compared them to hayes stroker trails? I can get a set for real cheap and Im not sure if I want to or not. The weight savings are only about 20 grams once all is said and done.

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    Beware of snake oil: While I am aware there are benefits to exotic housings, I am led to believe they might be negligible. I ran BB7s with budget housings and chepo FR5 levers. They had positive feel, relatively good modulation and comfortable one finger braking ability. Also I doubt much increase in power can be had from cables. Different feel yes, but not so much power. Power is all about clamping force at the caliper. As long as your cable can pull the lever (at the caliper) through its full range,your only limiting factor would be pads and rotors.

    BB7s are the best mechs out there and will slaughter a good many hydros. That said, I still feel that pound for pound the strokers are the better brakes.
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordDRIFT
    Beware of snake oil: While I am aware there are benefits to exotic housings, I am led to believe they might be negligible. I ran BB7s with budget housings and chepo FR5 levers. They had positive feel, relatively good modulation and comfortable one finger braking ability. Also I doubt much increase in power can be had from cables. Different feel yes, but not so much power. Power is all about clamping force at the caliper. As long as your cable can pull the lever at the caliper through its full range your only limiting factor will be pads and rotors.

    BB7s are the best mechs out there and will slaughter a good many hydros. That said, I still feel that pound for pound the strokers are the better brakes.

    So you are just assuming that running a compressionless housing provides a negligible difference in performance simply because your budget setup "worked well" for you?


    Well, I have run BB7s on budget cables and on Avid Ripcord compressionless/teflon housings and the difference is NIGHT AND DAY. No Snake Oil here folks..... Feel was better, modulation was vastly improved, and overall power was improved. When the housing is unable to compress there is no power robbing "squish" when grabbing a handful.

    FWIW

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    No need for the girly rolleyes to spoil a healthy discussion Bro.

    Yes I do feel that way.

    Also to clarify : I did run a compressionless housing - just not the uber $$$ ones.

    Lever feel and modulation I don't doubt (but I believe properly setup the difference is negligible).

    I already stated my position on power. But if you can prove otherwise or provide some tangible reasoning - Im all ears.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordDRIFT
    Beware of snake oil: While I am aware there are benefits to exotic housings, I am led to believe they might be negligible. I ran BB7s with budget housings and chepo FR5 levers. They had positive feel, relatively good modulation and comfortable one finger braking ability. Also I doubt much increase in power can be had from cables. Different feel yes, but not so much power. Power is all about clamping force at the caliper. As long as your cable can pull the lever (at the caliper) through its full range,your only limiting factor would be pads and rotors.

    BB7s are the best mechs out there and will slaughter a good many hydros. That said, I still feel that pound for pound the strokers are the better brakes.
    Look at it this way, once the brake pads impact the rotor, and you continue to apply increased preassure at the lever, that is when cables start to flex or compress. Try it on your bike and you can see it in action. That pressure is your increased effort being dissipated by the cable movement rather than by the caliper clamp pressure increase. That is wasted braking power and wasted finger or lever action. If your cables dont compress, then that pressure your are exerting on the lever is translated directly to the caliper, therein increasing brake force. I only use odyssey linear slic cables but the difference they made is within the 20 to 30% range, so better cables do make a serious difference. This time there aint no snake oil.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    What people are missing here is that with the bb7's its not just low friction full length housings that matter (and they matter everywhere, since just dust is enough to crud up cable systems at least a little). What actually matters is full length COMPRESSIONLESS housings. Those would be nokon systems, avid full metal jacket, flak jacket, or even my oddysey linear slik cables. All of these systems can improve the bb7 brake strength by about 30 to 40%, or in the worst to best case scenario, over 50%. Other critical points are rotors and levers. An average v-brake lever will cost you about 20 to 30% of available power, and rotors can increase braking power by about 20% over the crapagon rotors. Brake pads (sintered) also make a good difference but are noisy as hell, and I think I will be replacing them soon and going back to organics and a nokon system. Again what steals the most power from these brakes is not friction but rather cable flex. A question though. Has anyone here used avid bb7s (properly like I just mentioned) and compared them to hayes stroker trails? I can get a set for real cheap and Im not sure if I want to or not. The weight savings are only about 20 grams once all is said and done.
    By the time you do all that your BB7's are going to cost more than some top of the line Hopes or Maguras!
    What do recommend over an "average V brake lever" that would improve power by 20-30%?
    I think your estimate is high, and also, I doubt a different rotor would help by 20%.

    Good point about compressionless housing.

    What numbers are you using for your calculated weight savings? Here's what I'm figuring:

    BB7 caliper weight (weight weenies) 329g

    Speed dial 7 lever 90g

    cable & housing 60 g

    Total = 479

    Stroker = 406 complete

    Difference 73 grams for front, around 146 for pair, that's a 1/3 of a pound.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    Look at it this way, once the brake pads impact the rotor, and you continue to apply increased preassure at the lever, that is when cables start to flex or compress. Try it on your bike and you can see it in action. That pressure is your increased effort being dissipated by the cable movement rather than by the caliper clamp pressure increase. That is wasted braking power and wasted finger or lever action. If your cables dont compress, then that pressure your are exerting on the lever is translated directly to the caliper, therein increasing brake force. I only use odyssey linear slic cables but the difference they made is within the 20 to 30% range, so better cables do make a serious difference. This time there aint no snake oil.

    I just checked my stuff and saw that I am using compressionless shifter housing not brake housing. So my cables were even worse than I originally thought - or unknown at best.

    Now before I respond, what exactly do you mean by compress and flex?

    Edit: I take it back..They are $5 compressionless cables.
    Last edited by LordDRIFT; 06-30-2010 at 01:49 PM.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    By the time you do all that your BB7's are going to cost more than some top of the line Hopes or Maguras!
    What do recommend over an "average V brake lever" that would improve power by 20-30%?
    I think your estimate is high, and also, I doubt a different rotor would help by 20%.

    Good point about compressionless housing.

    What numbers are you using for your calculated weight savings? Here's what I'm figuring:

    BB7 caliper weight (weight weenies) 329g

    Speed dial 7 lever 90g

    cable & housing 60 g

    Total = 479

    Stroker = 406 complete

    Difference 73 grams for front, around 146 for pair, that's a 1/3 of a pound.
    Actually by average I meant any random crap vbrake lever. In fact I use the avid fr5 lever and it gave me a massive stopping power increase, it is what I would recommend. The cables I use cost me 13 bucks each. I replaced the rotors to avid g3's in the front and hayes v6 in the back. The total weight of the system with an avid g3 rotor and all other components comes to about 400 grams. The problem is that avids weight system for the bb7 includes the crapagon rotor, and not individual parts spec. Take a look at this.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=365630
    Those are actual weights of each component, added together they are about the same as the hayes with an equivalently sized rotor on it. I think the fr5 lever now weighs about 77 grams, though Im not certain...might go weigh one I have and find out. So as to weight, were talking about the same weight. Now when it comes to price its iffy, since now I see bb7's going for 77 bucks, and 2 months ago I saw them at 44, weird. Then you have to factor the rotor (35 bucks), the levers (20 bucks) and the low compression housing (for me 13 bucks each for odyssey linear slics, although if you go for flak jacket its about 40, and nokons are about 80). There isnt really a clear winner here, but my point is that bb7's are serious competitors and generally superior to basic and even some mid level hydraulics if used properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    but my point is that bb7's are serious competitors and generally superior to basic and even some mid level hydraulics if used properly.
    I think most of us agree with this.
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    The problem is that avids weight system for the bb7 includes the crapagon rotor, and not individual parts spec. Take a look at this.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=365630
    Those are actual weights of each component, added together they are about the same as the hayes with an equivalently sized rotor on it. I think the fr5 lever now weighs about 77 grams, though Im not certain...might go weigh one I have and find out. So as to weight, were talking about the same weight. Now when it comes to price its iffy, since now I see bb7's going for 77 bucks, and 2 months ago I saw them at 44, weird. Then you have to factor the rotor (35 bucks), the levers (20 bucks) and the low compression housing (for me 13 bucks each for odyssey linear slics, although if you go for flak jacket its about 40, and nokons are about 80). There isnt really a clear winner here, but my point is that bb7's are serious competitors and generally superior to basic and even some mid level hydraulics if used properly.
    The 160 roundagon rotor weighs 127 g compared to 104 for the clean sweep. That would save a little weight, again with more cost. Still the Strokers are lighter.
    But I agree you can get them pretty close in weight and they are obviously a serious contender, as shown by the number of people who like them.

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    The BB7s I'm running are with Avid AD3 levers that came stock on the bike and the cables and housings currently are basic Shimano XT, same ones used in the initial conversion from V brakes 4-5 years ago.

    Like I said on the Strokers, when they work right they are great, when anything is the least out of sorts they can be a PITA. I thought it was interesting that the Hayes video that shows how to bleed them doesn't show the wheels spinning and a few test stops after they are put back in place. Of course they could just edit out any fiddle factor... but the cut and dried 'just that easy' attitude hasn't been something I've been blessed with on my copy of the brakes.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    The 160 roundagon rotor weighs 127 g compared to 104 for the clean sweep. That would save a little weight, again with more cost. Still the Strokers are lighter.
    But I agree you can get them pretty close in weight and they are obviously a serious contender, as shown by the number of people who like them.
    We are clearly getting are weight sources from different places. No matter. I guess we agree that whether the bb7s are about 10g's less or 20 more the brakes are still fantastic. I guess that leaves us to decide whether the brakes are better than hayes stroker trails or not... I found the trails pretty cheap and Im not sure which is superior overall (maintenance factor, power, modulation, reliability all included).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    We are clearly getting are weight sources from different places. No matter. I guess we agree that whether the bb7s are about 10g's less or 20 more the brakes are still fantastic. I guess that leaves us to decide whether the brakes are better than hayes stroker trails or not... I found the trails pretty cheap and Im not sure which is superior overall (maintenance factor, power, modulation, reliability all included).
    The bb7's are mechanical and the hayes are hydros, so there is your debate. This topic has been beat like a dead horse...bb7s will be more user freindly as far as maintenance goes but you will get mixed reviews on which brakes brake better(power/modulation). Just pick one of them up and I am sure you will be satisfied. Trying them out for yourself will be the only way to tell which ones "brake" better

  73. #73
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    Well Ive tried some hydros which I really liked, like avid elixr cr's and shimano slx's. Then Ive tried avid juicy 3's and some others which were garbage. My bb7s are close to the slxs, a bit off the elixrs, and well beyond the juicy 3s and the rest. Not sure where the hayes fall in that bunch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    We are clearly getting are weight sources from different places. No matter. I guess we agree that whether the bb7s are about 10g's less or 20 more the brakes are still fantastic. I guess that leaves us to decide whether the brakes are better than hayes stroker trails or not... I found the trails pretty cheap and Im not sure which is superior overall (maintenance factor, power, modulation, reliability all included).
    I'll still stick with my 1/3 pound per pair weight disadvantage for BB7's comparing stock to stock.

    From the thread you linked to, this guys numbers of actual weights seem to agree with my calcs.

    I can contribute with some weights from my new Avid BB7 (2008)-Setup:

    - 1 Caliper + pads: 182g
    - CPS Hardware (1 break): 22g
    - Avid Roundagon 160mm rotor: 127g
    - 6 rotor bolts: 12g
    - 1 Avid Speed Dial SL: 78g
    - 160mm front adapter (if you have no postmount): 15g
    - Avid Full Metal Jacket (typical fullsuspension MTB setup front+rear with all parts): 130 - 140g

    So I get a total weight of 1022g for both breaks (only rear adapter needed). This is damn heavy! I will switch to 160mm Alligator Windcutter rotors, so I can save 70g and will end up with about 950g.
    1022 for BB7 and 812 for Strokers= 210 g difference even more than I estimated. that's close to 1/2 lb.
    Note that the 812 g is reported by Hayes. If anyone has a n actual weight that would help, but its probably close.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    I'll still stick with my 1/3 pound per pair weight disadvantage for BB7's comparing stock to stock.

    From the thread you linked to, this guys numbers of actual weights seem to agree with my calcs.



    1022 for BB7 and 812 for Strokers= 210 g difference even more than I estimated. that's close to 1/2 lb.
    Note that the 812 g is reported by Hayes. If anyone has a n actual weight that would help, but its probably close.
    Oh I see. You were comparing both front and rear when you suggested 1/3 lb. Now I get it. Those flak jackets are dam heavy. I might get those hayes just to give them a try but Im fairly sure the housings Im running are nowhere near that heavy, and probably almost as effective. I guess the other thing with bb7s is the versatility of setup. Each (effective) setup is clearly personalized to the riders taste, and so the performance and weight ranges will also alter considerably. Of interest perhaps to you, Ive seen some threads of people actually cutting out some metal from the caliper lever arm as well as other parts and sanding it down to shave weight, what they call the sl bb7. Apparently there is even a standard method to doing this. Quite interesting, unfortunately I dont have the forum anymore. Ill look for it again.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    Well Ive tried some hydros which I really liked, like avid elixr cr's and shimano slx's. Then Ive tried avid juicy 3's and some others which were garbage. My bb7s are close to the slxs, a bit off the elixrs, and well beyond the juicy 3s and the rest. Not sure where the hayes fall in that bunch.
    Elixers are loads more powerful than strokers (trails anyways). I still feel the strokers have better modulation though. I do like the feel at the lever with elixirs - though subjective.
    Last edited by LordDRIFT; 07-01-2010 at 06:51 AM.
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    1/3 of a pound sounds like a lot, but considering brakes are one of the most important parts on a bike, its not that big of a deal to +/- .3 lbs on a 27-30 lb bike. (Apologies to weight weenies out there). I think BB7's are cool. I'd like to try some on my second bike, which has V brakes right now, but I don't want to buy new wheels.
    Right now my Hayes need to be bled. It kind of sucks. I can't find a bleed kit at any shop, so I have to mail order one, or have a shop do the bleed for me (40-50 bucks).
    I like having full control over how my bike works, and doing stuff myself. Cable actuation is a beautiful thing, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arielDB
    I just got a pair of Juicy 3, I got them new from eBay, I had my LBS do the installation for me & I picket up the bike last night after work, (I did not get to ride the bike)
    This morning riding to work & trying out the brakes, I was disappointed!!! the front brake was just not stopping, the pads are closing on the rotors, but no braking power at all, the rear is a little better, but still not as good as I was thinking Juicy 3 will be.

    Do they need some time to brake in?????
    Yeah, the Juicy 3's take some time to get working right. The 3.5's are much better (I think the chamber connected to the lever is slightly different) They have notably better modulation, and a distinct full lock. At least that has been my experience.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    1/3 of a pound sounds like a lot, but considering brakes are one of the most important parts on a bike, its not that big of a deal to +/- .3 lbs on a 27-30 lb bike. (Apologies to weight weenies out there). I think BB7's are cool. I'd like to try some on my second bike, which has V brakes right now, but I don't want to buy new wheels.
    Right now my Hayes need to be bled. It kind of sucks. I can't find a bleed kit at any shop, so I have to mail order one, or have a shop do the bleed for me (40-50 bucks).
    I like having full control over how my bike works, and doing stuff myself. Cable actuation is a beautiful thing, IMO.
    IMO the Hayes bleed kit is a bit of a disapointment.
    $15 for the plastic fitting you need, 3 fittings you don't need, a bit of tubing, a miniture plastic squeeze bottle (Think 3 ounce glue bottle) and about 5-6 ounces of DOT4.

    The bleed video reccomends the use of a Hayes compression fitting to help hold the tubing on the bleed valve but doesn't include it and the only place I've been able to source it requires you to buy 10 plus shipping. I used a bit of aluminum tubing the right diameter to get the same effect. Getting the tubing on the plastic bottle is slightly annoying as the bottle spout is tapered and about 1/5-2 times the tube ID at the tip so you are stretching it quite a bit and the only thing holding it on is compression/friction. A pair of .015" feeler gauges are very helpful getting things back together.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer
    IMO the Hayes bleed kit is a bit of a disapointment.
    $15 for the plastic fitting you need, 3 fittings you don't need, a bit of tubing, a miniture plastic squeeze bottle (Think 3 ounce glue bottle) and about 5-6 ounces of DOT4.

    The bleed video reccomends the use of a Hayes compression fitting to help hold the tubing on the bleed valve but doesn't include it and the only place I've been able to source it requires you to buy 10 plus shipping. I used a bit of aluminum tubing the right diameter to get the same effect. Getting the tubing on the plastic bottle is slightly annoying as the bottle spout is tapered and about 1/5-2 times the tube ID at the tip so you are stretching it quite a bit and the only thing holding it on is compression/friction. A pair of .015" feeler gauges are very helpful getting things back together.
    I agree the kit looks like a disappointment. I just found one locally and bought it. The youtube video hayes put out shows you need a receiver bottle and the compression fitting, so why the heck do they not supply those things? they are already charging you 20 something bucks for 50 cents worth of crap, so why not make it a complete kit?
    Anyway, I read that a zip tie can help hold the tubing on. What kind of bottle can I use for a receiver, that has a tapered top for a tubing connection?

    I've used business cards to center the pads which works pretty well in place of feeler guages.

  81. #81
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    Any catch container works. I agree they should have included the catch bottle, compression fitting and feeler gauge(s). The first two couldn't cost them a buck. Unless they included their elaborate dual feeler gauge with fake disc section the feelers cost could be included in that buck as well.

    The bottle in the video is particularly nice as it is rigged with a fitting through the cap and so forth but I used a giant squeeze bottle that I ran the tube through the cap and it worked ok.

    The wrench I typically use once or twice a year when I'm pressed for time or when I want to see something done used a plastic drink bottle hung off the handlebar with a bent spoke.

    The business cards work ok with worn pads.
    In my limited experience they are too thick to use with new pads.

  82. #82
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    Weve had a lot of bantering here, some great arguments, and a couple of fairly dumb comments, but so far only one person has ventured as far as to give an objective comparison between the performance of bb7's, slx's and hayes strokers. Anyone else wanna pitch in their experience? I mean people who actually understand how these things work, both hydraulic and mechanical, not just pointless comments of how one design is inherently better with no experience or proof to back it up.

  83. #83
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    IMO the list goes from bad to great. strokers are AMAZING!!! remember:IMO
    uʍop ǝpısdn sı ɹǝʇndɯoɔ ɹnoʎ sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
    i just love this

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHmonkey123
    IMO the list goes from bad to great. strokers are AMAZING!!! remember:IMO
    lol ill leave your opinion alone with regard to the strokers but you think juicy 3s are better than bb7? In every instance ive tried jucies fell well below my bb7s. Hydros are nice and ive foud several far more powerfull than bb7s but really...jucy 3s straight up suck. For a set of hydros those things fail. The 3.5s i dont know...

  85. #85
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    I will say the the tool free pad removal setup of the strokers, causes the pads to jiggle/shift a bit causing inconsistent feel at the lever - at the front especially, I guess beacause of the shorter hose run.

    No Biggie, but I notice it.

    What happened to the Op?
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordDRIFT
    I will say the the tool free pad removal setup of the strokers, causes the pads to jiggle/shift a bit causing inconsistent feel at the lever - at the front especially, I guess beacause of the shorter hose run.

    No Biggie, but I notice it.

    What happened to the Op?
    I wonder if you would notice a difference with the stroker rydes, the cheaper version without the tool free feature. I never saw the problem with removing a bolt to take your brake pads out once a year anyway.
    Although, I have the rydes, and I think I know that jiggly feel you are talking about....
    hmm.

  87. #87
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    Just go SLX. (There's a reason why they're normally more expensive.)

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    lol ill leave your opinion alone with regard to the strokers but you think juicy 3s are better than bb7? In every instance ive tried jucies fell well below my bb7s. Hydros are nice and ive foud several far more powerfull than bb7s but really...jucy 3s straight up suck. For a set of hydros those things fail. The 3.5s i dont know...
    My experience has been much different. I replaced a set of BB7's with Juicy 3's and have been very happy. My BB7's were set up properly and provided very powerful single digit braking and good modulation. I grabbed a set of Juicy 3's on the cheap because I wanted to give hydro a try without shelling out too much $ for something I may not like (my bb7's treated me that well). I can honestly say that my Juicy 3's perform better than my BB7's did. They have slightly more power and modulate much better with a much better lever feel than my bb7's. I also experience less arm fatigue at the end of longer downhill sections which was a welcome surprise. Set up was easy on both the Juicies and the BB7. I had to deal with sticky pistons on the Juicy brakes initially and the stock pads sucked. I fixed the pistons and installed a set of semi-metallic pads and have been happy ever since. Bleeding was a cake walk as well. I like both systems but I dont think I can go back to mech after experiencing hydro. Opinions are always going to vary but I dont think the OP can go wrong with any of the brakes listed. Just get what you can afford and ride.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    I wonder if you would notice a difference with the stroker rydes, the cheaper version without the tool free feature. I never saw the problem with removing a bolt to take your brake pads out once a year anyway.
    Although, I have the rydes, and I think I know that jiggly feel you are talking about....
    hmm.
    Funny you should ask... I upgraded to the Trails from the Rydes. I never had that problem with the Rydes. After My BB7s on my previous bike though, I was not happy with the performance of the Rydes at all (and these were my first hydros owned).
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  90. #90
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    If you feel it too it may be another aspect of the design?
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  91. #91
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    Any opinions on Juicy 3.5s, 5s, Hayes Stroker Carbons vs. Trails?
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonys
    Its still just the push of a button away...
    I am no longer a hardtailkid. 2012 Trek Remedy 9!

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by fisheo
    Just get what you can afford and ride.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordDRIFT
    If you feel it too it may be another aspect of the design?
    I don't know. I could never figure out what that feeling was. Sometimes I would check my rotor and caliper to see if it was loose. Even with the rydes, although there is a pin through the pad ears, it isn't a snug connection. It might reduce the jiggle without completely eliminating it.

  94. #94
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    My bb7's have been causing me finger fatigue for a while now. I think its more related to my grips than the brakes, but I want to try a hydro setup through and through and establish a good opinion on owning them. Would you guys recommend hayes stroker trails? Would they give me as much or more power with less finger effort, so as to alleviate fatigue?

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    My bb7's have been causing me finger fatigue for a while now. I think its more related to my grips than the brakes, but I want to try a hydro setup through and through and establish a good opinion on owning them. Would you guys recommend hayes stroker trails? Would they give me as much or more power with less finger effort, so as to alleviate fatigue?
    It took a lot less effort for me to lock brakes (intentionally) on BB7s than on Trails. That said the trails are powerful enough for trail/AM, and the modulation is far better. I have never experienced finger fatigue with either (1 finger braking).

    I could pull a stoppie fairly easily on BB7s, but I have to greatly exaggerate my body position and do a fairly violent weight shift to achieve this on trails.

    Trails are slightly herky jerky on steep down hill switch backs, and I found the BB7s to be smooth as silk.

    The only flaw with this comparison is that the brakes were mounted on different bikes so YMMV.
    -Don "LordDRIFT" Draper.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    My bb7's have been causing me finger fatigue for a while now. I think its more related to my grips than the brakes, but I want to try a hydro setup through and through and establish a good opinion on owning them. Would you guys recommend hayes stroker trails? Would they give me as much or more power with less finger effort, so as to alleviate fatigue?
    Try repositioning the brake levers. They may not fatigue you as much.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxunv04
    Try repositioning the brake levers. They may not fatigue you as much.
    I have actually. I have them set up for about as much power as they can generate. I guess most of the fatigue comes from the grips (which are garbage). I think Im going to replace the brakes with shimano slx's tho. I found then for 99 and one in the front with a bb7 in the rear (the rear is working perfectly) seems like a good mix. If I keep investing in these to get them perfect Ill just have paid for some (good) hydros in the process, and may not achieve desired results anyway.

  98. #98
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    Wow, I just removed my sintered pads and put my old organics back in. What a difference! It seems like I have regained about 70% modulation and lost 100% of noise! Those sintered pads shriek! Never plan on using that garbage again. Now to see if I can return them to performance...

  99. #99
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    ive ridden all and personally ride bb7's and slx

  100. #100
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    I have had my Stroker Trails for two years now and no problems...well other than the pads,they're noisy so I may try organics soon.

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