yeti 575 Vs SC heckler- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    ... and if we just ... yeti 575 Vs SC heckler

    Finally I got ok from my CFO to get a new bike, and I have been searching a lot and for the type of ride that I do, I narrowed down to Yeti 575 or SC Heckler w/ 5th element air shock. Anyone out there who can give some feedbacks for this two bikes, or maybe a new posibility??

    I will really apresiate your input

  2. #2
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by CESARVEGA
    Finally I got ok from my CFO to get a new bike, and I have been searching a lot and for the type of ride that I do, I narrowed down to Yeti 575 or SC Heckler w/ 5th element air shock. Anyone out there who can give some feedbacks for this two bikes, or maybe a new posibility??

    I will really apresiate your input
    Heckler with 5th air? If you are considering that - I would bet you will be better off with 575. Faster, snappier bike. Heckler is awesome, but I would only run it with coil if I was going to trash it a bit and not worry about going uphill too much.

  3. #3
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by CESARVEGA
    Finally I got ok from my CFO to get a new bike, and I have been searching a lot and for the type of ride that I do, I narrowed down to Yeti 575 or SC Heckler w/ 5th element air shock. Anyone out there who can give some feedbacks for this two bikes, or maybe a new posibility??

    I will really apresiate your input
    What is the "type of riding" you do?
    Nothing to see here.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CESARVEGA
    I narrowed down to Yeti 575 or SC Heckler w/ 5th element air shock. Anyone out there who can give some feedbacks for this two bikes, or maybe a new posibility??

    I will really apresiate your input
    The 575 has steeper more XC climber frame geometry and the suspension is a nice medium height monopivot compromise for snappy low bob (with platform air shock) climbing and pretty good bump compliance when pedaling or braking. This is more of an excellent mountain climbing trail bike.

    The Heckler is heavier tubed and probably stronger and has a more slack frame geometry for higher speeds, steep drops and jumps and less climbing oriented rider position, that can still climb well up shorter distances due to the higher monopivot suspension stiffening effect pedaling in lower gears. This is more of an excellent desert rocky trail bike.

    Another bike in this price range to consider I've become very impressed with by a recent test ride in various terrain, is the Marin Wolf Ridge. Compared to the other two and nearly all other bikes, it's much more adjustable in travel front and rear (4 - 6 inch rear, with adjustable fork travel) to suit XC long climbing to very DH freeride high speed and drops, strong, stiff, and maybe the best bump compliant and stable pedaling suspension design (without needing a platform shock) when adjusted to any of the 4, 5, or 6 inches of travel. The Wolf Ridge is designed for an air rear shock (standard Float-R), It would need a very progressive rate coil spring if coil was desired, perhaps a Progressive 5th Element or similar Manitou Swinger coil would work. Only the $1000 more expensive Talas Switchblade has as much wide variety in type of ride use tuning and has better braking traction performance than all the others, but the Marin has longer more plush travel with 6 inches and better pedaling performance.

    The Marin crosses over the ride use ranges of both the 575 and Heckler strengths, it's as nearly as light as the 575 and as strong as the Heckler. But to keep it simple either the 575 or Hecker is a great bike with somewhat more limited specific strengths than the more versatile use Wolf Ridge.

    - ray

  5. #5
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    and the suspension is a nice medium height monopivot compromise for snappy low bob (with platform air shock)

    This is more of an excellent desert rocky trail bike.
    No, the 575 is a low-pivot monopivot, and yes it will bob but the platform shock helps reduce that. The low-pivot characteristics include the bobbing, active travel, and no "kickback".

    There are few truely "high pivot" bikes these days, the heckler would be best described as "medium", definitely not low, but not "too high". In a certain gear it will pedal well (middle or big chainring) and in the smaller gear it will kickback more and bob some.

    If anything, the heckler is going to be better when the trails are smoother, when the non-quite as active suspension isn't a hindrance. Climbing up short rocky climbs will be one of it's worst areas, due to the pivot not being "that high" it won't be as bad as some of the past bikes, but the 575 will be much better in this regard. When you downshift to the granny gear, you get more chain-extention in the suspension and the torque from your pedaling affects it adversely and it "kicks back" in rough terrain when you try to pedal. It's definitely a "stiffening trait", but it doesn't make it pedal better or anything.

    I'm not trying to knock the heckler out of the water, but some of your comments on it are flat out wrong. Some of these effects that I have listed may not be noticable to someone who hasn't ridden a wide variety of bikes, and the effect will vary, but they are there and they are real.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The 575 has steeper more XC climber frame geometry and the suspension is a nice medium height monopivot compromise for snappy low bob (with platform air shock) climbing and pretty good bump compliance when pedaling or braking. This is more of an excellent mountain climbing trail bike.

    The Heckler is heavier tubed and probably stronger and has a more slack frame geometry for higher speeds, steep drops and jumps and less climbing oriented rider position, that can still climb well up shorter distances due to the higher monopivot suspension stiffening effect pedaling in lower gears. This is more of an excellent desert rocky trail bike.

    Another bike in this price range to consider I've become very impressed with by a recent test ride in various terrain, is the Marin Wolf Ridge. Compared to the other two and nearly all other bikes, it's much more adjustable in travel front and rear (4 - 6 inch rear, with adjustable fork travel) to suit XC long climbing to very DH freeride high speed and drops, strong, stiff, and maybe the best bump compliant and stable pedaling suspension design (without needing a platform shock) when adjusted to any of the 4, 5, or 6 inches of travel. The Wolf Ridge is designed for an air rear shock (standard Float-R), It would need a very progressive rate coil spring if coil was desired, perhaps a Progressive 5th Element or similar Manitou Swinger coil would work. Only the $1000 more expensive Talas Switchblade has as much wide variety in type of ride use tuning and has better braking traction performance than all the others, but the Marin has longer more plush travel with 6 inches and better pedaling performance.

    The Marin crosses over the ride use ranges of both the 575 and Heckler strengths, it's as nearly as light as the 575 and as strong as the Heckler. But to keep it simple either the 575 or Hecker is a great bike with somewhat more limited specific strengths than the more versatile use Wolf Ridge.

    - ray

    Are you sure about the geometry? I thought the 575's head tube angle is 69deg vs the Heckler's at 70deg. I may be wrong about this.

  7. #7
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride red
    Are you sure about the geometry? I thought the 575's head tube angle is 69deg vs the Heckler's at 70deg. I may be wrong about this.
    the heckler can take a fork up to 7", that's a pretty big spread and the headtube angle will depend on what fork is used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ride red
    Are you sure about the geometry? I thought the 575's head tube angle is 69deg vs the Heckler's at 70deg. I may be wrong about this.
    Upon review of the Yeti 575 web site specs I was a bit off, the 575 seat tube angle is a tad bit slack for XC climbing at 72 degrees, but not so slack that an adjustable height fork couldn't drop the angle forward to 73 or more, or a rider could use a centered seat post with seat adjusted slightly forward for an excellent climbing position bias. The seat angle is what matters most for seated climbing ease. The 69 degree head tube angle is ideal for a 5 inch travel fork for advanced trail handling.

    The Yeti's middle ring pivot height is a medium height pivot. I would consider small ring pivoting paths to be low pivot. The Yeti 575's combination of a medium height pivot and falling rate shock linkage should be very snappy pedaling and still not produce very noticeable pedal kickback. I haven't ridden the 575 but I have ridden a Jekyll which has the same pivot location as Yeti uses but a more linear rate shock linkage which pedal bobs a little, while the Yeti's falling rate linkage would reduce bob better, but be a little less freely active over bumps than a more linear shock linkage.

    I have ridden the new Hecker and it felt very slack in the seat, the seated position was more behind the pedals than on a climbing bike. Sag makes a big difference on the Santa Cruz monopivots, and a little too much sag makes them feel really slack, perhaps the Fox technician who was demoing the Fox shorn Heckler didn't set up the test tide carefully enough for me. It seemed like a really solid bike and felt very quick pedaling. The steering didnít feel overly slow, it could have been 70 degrees which could work well with 5 inch fork travel with a slacker seat post (about 71 degree) riding position.

    - ray

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    the heckler can take a fork up to 7", that's a pretty big spread and the headtube angle will depend on what fork is used.
    SC's website says up to 153mm fork. I know in the past, they've been fine with DC forks, but not anymore, apparently. Not sure of why the change.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The 575 has steeper more XC climber frame geometry and the suspension is a nice medium height monopivot compromise for snappy low bob (with platform air shock) climbing and pretty good bump compliance when pedaling or braking. This is more of an excellent mountain climbing trail bike.

    The Heckler is heavier tubed and probably stronger and has a more slack frame geometry for higher speeds, steep drops and jumps and less climbing oriented rider position, that can still climb well up shorter distances due to the higher monopivot suspension stiffening effect pedaling in lower gears. This is more of an excellent desert rocky trail bike.

    Another bike in this price range to consider I've become very impressed with by a recent test ride in various terrain, is the Marin Wolf Ridge. Compared to the other two and nearly all other bikes, it's much more adjustable in travel front and rear (4 - 6 inch rear, with adjustable fork travel) to suit XC long climbing to very DH freeride high speed and drops, strong, stiff, and maybe the best bump compliant and stable pedaling suspension design (without needing a platform shock) when adjusted to any of the 4, 5, or 6 inches of travel. The Wolf Ridge is designed for an air rear shock (standard Float-R), It would need a very progressive rate coil spring if coil was desired, perhaps a Progressive 5th Element or similar Manitou Swinger coil would work. Only the $1000 more expensive Talas Switchblade has as much wide variety in type of ride use tuning and has better braking traction performance than all the others, but the Marin has longer more plush travel with 6 inches and better pedaling performance.

    The Marin crosses over the ride use ranges of both the 575 and Heckler strengths, it's as nearly as light as the 575 and as strong as the Heckler. But to keep it simple either the 575 or Hecker is a great bike with somewhat more limited specific strengths than the more versatile use Wolf Ridge.

    - ray
    Ray,
    After reading a couple of your posts, I see you really like that marin bike.
    Have you modeled it on the linkage program? if so send me a copy to look at axle path and suspension rate.
    Do you plan to get one. From your writings, it seems you feel it behaves better, and offers more than any other bike period.
    I have become interested on this bike.
    pedro

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro
    Ray,
    After reading a couple of your posts, I see you really like that marin bike.
    Have you modeled it on the linkage program? if so send me a copy to look at axle path and suspension rate.
    Do you plan to get one. From your writings, it seems you feel it behaves better, and offers more than any other bike period.
    I have become interested on this bike.
    pedro
    I've only test ridden the Wolf Ridge fairly thoroughly off road and talked to the Marin reps about the path. Iíll need to measure it for the Linkage program, but the links are so short it may be difficult to get an accurate map, and Linkage may not be completely accurate too. The pedaling path feels like an exaggerated or parabolic modified Horst link path similar to the Hollowpoint with enough rearward curve near sag to prevent pedal bob and quickly curving below sag to vertical and more forward deep in travel for better bump compliance when pedaling and for better braking traction. They brake as least as good as the VPP's, better than average (floating brake linked Horst designs by Intense and Titus brake the best for XC riding in my experience). They have a great component package at the Wolf Ridge level, and there is a level above and two pretty good packages below.

    I can't afford another bike right now (unemployed programmer/analyst, except for occasional temp contracts) and don't really need more travel than my Tracer where I live. And my coil suspended Tracer is smoother over smaller stuff than the air sprung Wolf Ridge (an adjustable height coil fork rather than the stock Talas on the Wolf Ridge would cure that difference, perhaps the Minute 1). But The Wolf Ridge would be on my short list with the Switchblade Talas or possibly Swinger 4 with Minute 1 (coil fork) for over $1000 more. I'd like to test ride the Yeti 575 too, and the similar longer travel XC Foes bike. The Wolf ridge suspension feels so well designed for pedaling in all conditions it doesn't need to be compromised with platform damping. I'd like to see Jon Whyte, the designer, apply his talent to add some adjustable height coil sprung semi-anti-dive front suspension to the Wolf Ridge.

    Try to get a test ride. It was a bike that I didn't want to give back and my Tracer felt like it had much shorter travel afterwards.

    - ray

  12. #12
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    DC Forks

    Quote Originally Posted by esquire
    SC's website says up to 153mm fork. I know in the past, they've been fine with DC forks, but not anymore, apparently. Not sure of why the change.
    The SC website shows the Maverick as one of the fork options for the Heckler. Where did you hear that they are not allowing DC forks?

  13. #13
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    I know, but.....

    I see what they show, the Maverick, but they also, on this page (same page), is the statement "up to 153 mm fork". The Maverick DC is 150mm.

    So, to clarify, as long as the DC is only 6" in travel, they apparently are ok. Same thing with the Chameleon.

    http://www.santacruzmtb.com/bicycles/heckler.php

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