Stumpjumper FSR vs. Trance 1/0- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 36 of 36
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16

    Stumpjumper FSR vs. Trance 1/0

    Going to be purchasing a FS bike and have it down to the trance or the stumper jumper with the brain fade. i will be able to demo the stumpjumper for a day but not the trance so any feedback is appreciated.

  2. #2
    Ogden Utah
    Reputation: GTLTSJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    84

    matsuura

    Hello...........Check the travel & bottom bracket dimensions between the two..........I was looking for a higher BB height & more travel than the Trance.....I went w/ the SJ FSR Comp.............. This evening I added a shorter stem & Race Face carbon bars .................Joe
    Last edited by GTLTSJoe; 12-23-2007 at 08:22 PM.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    thanks for the advice. have you been able to compare your SJ with one equipped with the brain?

    how is the pedaling efficiency / bo on your bike?

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    bo = bob

  5. #5
    Ogden Utah
    Reputation: GTLTSJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    84

    matsuura

    The SJ FSR comp is standard w/ the Fox Triad shock......Its has 3 positions 1. Normal compression 2. Pro Pedal 3. Full lock out............I prefer the Pro Pedal mode as it is stiff during normal peddling action but still reacts to the hard hits.........Ive heard the electronic shock is great but of course its pricey..........You sound new to FS so when youre off the saddle, peddle bob is more prevalant but while seated its is stiff.......I paid $1800 for my bike & honestly Im still getting used to it being that I only have 20 miles on it.........As noted Im setting up my cockpit w/ the shorter stem & the carbon bars...........Let us know what you decide.............Take care..................Joe

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    Thanks for all the info and you're right the only FS bikes i've ridden have been on a demo. i ve been out of the sport for about 10 years and just getting back into it. i'm definitely leaning towards the stumpjumper just trying to decide if it's worth the extra cash for the brain. my concern is with the brains reliability and whether or not it gives a stiffer ride than an SJ without it. thanks again joe

  7. #7
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    My budget was never so big to allow me to seriously consider the Stumpjumper. But compared to the FSR XC Giant offered much better value for the $$.
    Aside from that one of the other main reasons I went with a trance was the not so interrupted seatpost. Something to consider if you like thomson saddles and you like lowering them.
    I realized that having a gravity dropper possibly solves the problem?

    Also putting more travel up front on the trance (130mm) does lift the bb height somewhat.
    energetix



  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    49
    When I went looking last year for a FS it was btw the SJ and Trance. After reviewing them at the LBS's, I felt the SJ fit me better. I then debated what model SJ to get. I wasn't looking to spend big dollars, but ended up with the SJ FSR Pro w/ brain. No regrets, the thing rocks.

    Also, I planned on riding my trusty HT on the shorter, smoother local trails, but for some reason it never made it out of the basement...........

  9. #9
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    I've read mostly good things about the brain, there was an ongoing kind of issue posted here a while ago but specialized took care of it in the end.

    I'd get a few more reports from people who have ridden both types and I reckon you'll probably end up going for the brain. Isn't it hard not to buy "the best" bike (or model) you can!
    energetix



  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    energetix,

    have you been able to ride a SJ with or without brain to compare to youre trance. not sure i'm going to be able to demo both bikes so i'm looking for someone who's ridden both

  11. #11
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    Sorry I haven't ridden a stumpjumper at all - I was referring to you when I said "I'd get a few more reports from people who have ridden both types" meaning that you should do that - which is in fact what you are trying to do.

    Sorry for the confusion!

    A quick search on the term "brain fade" brough up these threads, I haven't read them, they could be useful to you. If you haven't already it may be a good idea to try a few keyword searches or a gander over at the specialized forum - also starting a thread there if you haven't already may get you a bit more response from those who have experience with both bikes.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ght=brain+fade

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ght=brain+fade

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ght=brain+fade

    and here is the link to the specialized forum:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7
    energetix



  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    58
    Get a suspension design that limits bob with out an expensive shock. Trance all the way. 4 bar is dinosaur technology. A lot of companies stick with it because it is reasonably effective and doesn't require huge research dollars to produce a decent bike. Try a VPP based design. They do not REQUIRE pro pedal or an electronic damping system to be effective. They limit bob mechanically while being fully active all of the time. As soon as you use a damper to limit bob your damper limits small bump sensitivity.
    Been workin' on bike's since I was 14. I'm 25 now and still don't know everything.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    Looking for a little clarification, isn't the VPP just another variation of the 4-bar suspension design?

    Does the VPP design stiffen up the suspension under cranking force and braking force?
    Last edited by matsuura; 03-06-2007 at 06:35 AM.

  14. #14
    Ogden Utah
    Reputation: GTLTSJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    84

    Dont Be Fooled Mr. Matsuura

    Its all a matter of taste at the levels of design between Specialized & Giant........Both suspension designs are qualified & functional IMO.....The Enduro series of bikes (All mountain / Downhill) have a rocker style of rear suspension similar to Giants..........I know that Specialize's Bottom brackets & the Seat post Splitter & the aluminum suspension rocker are all forged pieces, (Not sure about Giants) ............Anyway they are both great bike company's..........Remember........I chose mine only because I didnt want the Reigns 6" of travel & over 30lbs & want more than 4" of travel & high bottom bracket.....The Trance didnt meet my wants........My FSR weighs 28 lbs..........Joe

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    58
    First of all, the 6 inch travel version of the Reign is under 30lbs. My 7" Travel Reign X is 34.4 built with a 7" travel totem fork and lots of other freeride components. As for the forged parts....who cares. I work at a shop. Guess how many swing links I have had to warranty for ANY company that we represent? 0.

    A 4 bar design piviots near the Bottom bracket, usually in line with the chain to try to compensate for pedaling induced bob. The wheel path of a 4 bar moves in a forward arch making it push into bumps not away from them. VPP designs have a swing link that allows the wheel to travel in a vertical path before it start arching toward the bike. The extra swing link also isolates the rear triangle movement from the chain and braking force. There are different designs for VPP that do stiffen under pedaling force. Giants design is not affected by braking or pedaling. Only force into the rear wheel. It does not stiffen or soften with pedaling. Some bobbing can be caused by choppy pedal strokes but that is the same with any design including specialized.

    GTLTS Joe is right when he says it is a preference. Most high end full suspension bikes are qualified. I am just giving you my two cents. My suggestion is to go out and ride both bikes. Bike shops are generally cool with test rides. Take each bike and really hammer on the pedals with bad rough strokes. Then find some washboard style bumps and do the same. You will know which one suits you. Don't listen to me or any other expert in a forum.
    Been workin' on bike's since I was 14. I'm 25 now and still don't know everything.

  16. #16
    There's no app for this.
    Reputation: JimC.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,369

    just to clarify for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Crowley
    Get a suspension design that limits bob with out an expensive shock. Trance all the way. 4 bar is dinosaur technology. A lot of companies stick with it because it is reasonably effective and doesn't require huge research dollars to produce a decent bike. Try a VPP based design. They do not REQUIRE pro pedal or an electronic damping system to be effective. They limit bob mechanically while being fully active all of the time. As soon as you use a damper to limit bob your damper limits small bump sensitivity.
    The VPP family of suspension systems are in fact four bar designs. They have short links instead of the longer links on a conventional four bar (chainstay and rocker).

    ...hopefully this won't ruin your love of your Trance

    Jim

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,750
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Crowley
    Get a suspension design that limits bob with out an expensive shock. Trance all the way. 4 bar is dinosaur technology. A lot of companies stick with it because it is reasonably effective and doesn't require huge research dollars to produce a decent bike. Try a VPP based design. They do not REQUIRE pro pedal or an electronic damping system to be effective. They limit bob mechanically while being fully active all of the time. As soon as you use a damper to limit bob your damper limits small bump sensitivity.
    Have you ridden a Stumpy with a propedal shock? They may not be as good in some ways, as VPP/Maestro/dw, but FSRs still climb/descend/etc very very well.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,750
    Quote Originally Posted by matsuura
    Looking for a little clarification, isn't the VPP just another variation of the 4-bar suspension design?

    Does the VPP design stiffen up the suspension under cranking force and braking force?
    no - most (if not all) VPP-style suspensions have a fixed rear triangle riding on top and bottom links, so looking at the links and pivots you can tell if it's VPP-style or 4-bar.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by JimC.
    The VPP family of suspension systems are in fact four bar designs. They have short links instead of the longer links on a conventional four bar (chainstay and rocker).

    ...hopefully this won't ruin your love of your Trance

    Jim
    Just because some VPP designs have 4 linkages does not make them a 4 bar design. 4 bar is not just counting the number of linkages as it is a named suspension design. If that were true most bikes on the market today would be labeled as 4 bar. Look a little closer and you'll see the Trance has a solid rear triangle Moving on only two linkages.

    Just to review Giants Maestro design a little. I had a chance to take my 7" travel Reign X out climbing a bit today. The bike is set up with 20% sag and low pressure in the platform piggy back (i.e. Fully Active). Not to mention a 34t single chainring paired to a 12t-25t road cassette......all the climbing I do is standing and hard strokes. I love it! It climbs like a mountain goat. If it weren't for my Freeride slack head angle I would say that it climbs better than most hardtail's I have owned. I spent a little time trying to throw really ugly hard pedal strokes into it to see if I could get some bobbing going. The only suspension movement I could feel was coming from the washboard packed down ice/snow trail I was climbing up. I felt as if every bit of my pedaling was going into forward movement NOT bobbing. This kind of performance from the freeride version of the Maestro design. Now take that and move to a 4" travel design with a bit more air in the platform and you have a Trance.

    This is a picture of my Reign so you know I am not blowing smoke about riding today.

    Been workin' on bike's since I was 14. I'm 25 now and still don't know everything.

  20. #20
    Ogden Utah
    Reputation: GTLTSJoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    84

    It wont be decided here!

    Hey.........None of us here are going to figure out the design differences between a VPP vs a HL or anything else..........The differences are way too small for us to figure out unless youre some serious mechanical engineer........Look at the dimensions, component mix & price & take a swing.............Ill meet all of you at the trail head for a 12 miler & have you home for lunch...............Regards..............Joe

  21. #21
    There's no app for this.
    Reputation: JimC.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,369

    take it up with

    Wikipedia, not me. Jim

    Four Bar
    The Four Bar (and its variant the Faux bar) use several linkage points to activate the shock. A 'true' Four Bar will have a pivot behind the bottom bracket, one in front of the rear wheel drop out (this pivot being the venerated "Horst Link"), and one at the top of the Seatstays. A Faux Bar will be similar but will have a pivot above the drop out instead of in front of the drop out (ie no Horst Link and no patent problem). The importance of this one pivot is heavily debated with supporters on both sides of the debate. Having the pivot in front of the drop out (i.e. on the chain stay) allows the linkage components to affect the path of the rear axle, thereby allowing for a more vertical travel path. Having the pivot on the seat stay (above the drop out) effectively makes the rear axle travel path very similar to that of a single pivot bike, since the chain stay is the only component that affects the rear axle's arc. Four Bar designs include Norco "VPS" bikes, almost all Specialized bikes, Ellsworth, KHS, Turner (although their new 06 Flux has lost the Horst link), and Ventana. A manufacturer that makes use of the 'Faux Bar' is Kona, who use it on their entire line-up.

    Faux bar suspension designs are in fact single pivots. The rear axle rotates around a single fixed point near the bottom bracket that it is connected to with a single link. The seatstays and rocker only serve to activate the shock and have no effect on the path of travel that the rear axle takes. The term "Faux bar" is used because they look similar to four bars.

    The VPP (or Virtual Pivot Point) is a linkage designed bike that is built to activate the suspension differently depending on what inputs the suspension has received. The VPP design is currently owned by Santa Cruz who also licenses the design to Intense. Yeti Cycles have created a unique rail system to eliminate pedal jacking The DW-Link is another design licensed to Iron Horse and Independent Fabrications. Giant's Maestro is yet another design. Patents have drawn definite lines among the manufacturers.

    To define a VPP/DW-link/Maestro suspension design, imagine a line that follows the path the rear axle takes as it moves through its travel. Continue it into a complete circle. The center of the circle will be the pivot point. It will be a virtual point in space and not an actual pivot on the bicycle. It can either be a fix point or one that moves around as the suspension compresses (floating), depending on the design.

    The VPP family of suspension systems are in fact four bar designs. They have short links instead of the longer links on a conventional four bar (chainstay and rocker).

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    58
    Wikipedia = As reliable as this conversation as I could go edit that line out if I wanted.

    Again, none of this matters. Lets agree then that 4 bar and VPP are technically based on the same design so this thread does not get hijacked to argue this any more. No matter what anyone says they are very different suspension designs. These designs have completely different ride characteristics.

    Going back to trying to give matsuura a couple of different opinions about the trance vs the stumpjumper. I would personally go with the Trance.

    1. Fully Active all of the time.
    2. Does not require expensive shock to work.
    3. Giant has a very good value for your money on spec
    4. The Giant maestro bikes I have ridden climb like mountain goats. (Anthem 2, Trance 1 and my Reign X)
    Been workin' on bike's since I was 14. I'm 25 now and still don't know everything.

  23. #23
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    For easy reference:

    Stumpjumper Comp ($2200) & Trance 1 ($2300).

    https://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBk...keTab=techspec


    https://www.giantbicycle.com/en-US/b...ntain/6/24199/




    <table style="width: 636px; height: 6818px;" class="specstable" border="0" cellpadding="15" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr> <td bgcolor="#ffffff" height="100%" valign="top" width="650"><table class="specstable" border="0" cellpadding="15" cellspacing="1" width="540"> <tbody><tr> <td class="table" width="200">FRAME</td> <td class="table" width="340">FSR M5 manipulated alloy frame w/ Transform monocoque TT, sealed cartridge bearing pivots and rear shock mount, replaceable derailleur hanger, two sets of water bottle bosses, disc only, 120mm travel</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">REAR SHOCK</td> <td class="table" width="340">Fox Triad, custom on-the-fly 3-position switch 1) lock out 2) Open 3) ProPedal pedal assisting damping, adjustable rebound, 7.75x1.75"</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">FORK</td> <td class="table" width="340">Fox Float 120 RL, 120mm, rebound/compression adj, lock out, alloy steerer</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">HEADSET</td> <td class="table" width="340">1 1/8" Threadless, alloy cups w/ 10mm insertion, sealed cartridge bearing</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">STEM</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized adjustable rise, OS 31.8, 3D forged w/CNC finish</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">HANDLEBARS</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized XC low rise 31.8mm OS bar, 2014 butted alloy, 6 degree up, 8 degree backsweep, 620mm width</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">TAPE / GRIPS</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized MTB, dual density</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">FRONT BRAKE</td> <td class="table" width="340">Avid Juicy 5, hydraulic disc, G2 Clean Sweep S/M: 185mm rotor, L/XL 203mm rotor </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">REAR BRAKE</td> <td class="table" width="340">Avid Juicy 5, hydraulic disc, G2 Clean Sweep S/M: 160mm rotor, L/XL 185mm rotor</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">BRAKE LEVERS</td> <td class="table" width="340">Avid Juicy 5 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">FRONT DERAILLEUR</td> <td class="table" width="340">Shimano M581 LX, 34.9mm clamp, bottom swing, dual pull</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">REAR DERAILLEUR</td> <td class="table" width="340">SRAM X-9, 9-speed, long cage</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">SHIFT LEVERS</td> <td class="table" width="340">SRAM X-7, aluminum trigger 9-speed</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">CASSETTE / FREEWHEEL</td> <td class="table" width="340">Shimano HG50, 9-speed, 11/34t</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">CHAIN</td> <td class="table" width="340">SRAM PC-951 w /Power Link</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">CRANKSET</td> <td class="table" width="340">Truvativ Stylo, 2pc crank/BB</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">CHAINRINGS</td> <td class="table" width="340">22S/32A/44A 4mm thick outer, 4 bolt 104/64mm</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">BOTTOM BRACKET</td> <td class="table" width="340">Truvativ GXP, sealed outboard cartridge bearing</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">PEDALS</td> <td class="table" width="340">Shimano M-520 SPD</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">RIMS</td> <td class="table" width="340">DT custom for Specialized X430, 24mm w/eyelets, 32h</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">FRONT HUB</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized Stout disc, sealed cartridge bearing, high/low flange, 32h</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">REAR HUB</td> <td class="table" width="340">Shimano M-525 disc, 32h, alloy QR</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">SPOKES</td> <td class="table" width="340">DT Swiss 1.8mm stainless, black, alloy nipples</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">FRONT TIRE</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized Resolution Pro 26x2.1", 120TPI, aramid bead, dual compound</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">REAR TIRE</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized Resolution Pro 26x2.1", 120TPI, aramid bead, dual compound</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">TUBES</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized Ultralight 26x2.0", presta</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">SADDLE</td> <td class="table" width="340">Specialized BG Rival, hollow Cro-Mo rails</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">SEAT POST</td> <td class="table" width="340">2014 butted alloy, black, 30.9 x 350/400mm</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">SEAT BINDER</td> <td class="table" width="340">7050 hard annodized alloy collar w/ QR, 34.9mm clamp ID, black</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="table" width="200">NOTES</td> <td class="table" width="340">Protective clear coat, derailleur hanger, reflectors, owners manual</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr> <tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">Can't get rid of this gap so please scroll down. Sorry - some kind of text boxes I can't delete!
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr><tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td><td style="vertical-align: top;">
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
    <table><tbody><tr><th>msrp</th><td></td></tr><tr><th>size</th><td>14.5", 16", 18", 20", 22"</td></tr><tr><th>color</th><td>Gray / Brushed</td></tr><tr><th>frame</th><td>ALUXX Butted aluminum, 4.2" Travel Frame Set Available</td></tr><tr><th>fork</th><td>rockShox Reba Race, 100mm travel</td></tr><tr><th>shock</th><td>Fox Float RP2</td></tr><tr><th>handlebar</th><td>RaceFace Evolve XC</td></tr><tr><th>stem</th><td>Race Face Evolve XC</td></tr><tr><th>seatpost</th><td>Race Face Evolve, 350x30.9</td></tr><tr><th>saddle</th><td>WTB Devo Team</td></tr><tr><th>pedals</th><td>NA</td></tr><tr><th>shifters</th><td>SRAM X.9 Trigger</td></tr><tr><th>front derailleur</th><td>Shimano XT</td></tr><tr><th>rear derailleur</th><td>SRAM X.9</td></tr><tr><th>brakes</th><td>Hayes HFX 9 XC</td></tr><tr><th>levers</th><td>Hayes</td></tr><tr><th>cassette</th><td>SRAM PG980, 11.34</td></tr><tr><th>chain</th><td>Shimano HG 53</td></tr><tr><th>cranks</th><td>RaceFace Evolve XC</td></tr><tr><th>BB</th><td>RaceFace X-Type external</td></tr><tr><th>rims</th><td>WTB LaserDisc XC</td></tr><tr><th>hubs</th><td>DT Cerit</td></tr><tr><th>spokes</th><td>DT Competition</td></tr><tr><th>tires</th><td>Hutchinson Piranha, / Barracuda folding</td></tr></tbody></table>
    Last edited by energetix; 03-07-2007 at 12:20 PM.
    energetix



  24. #24
    There's no app for this.
    Reputation: JimC.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,369

    I can't argue the Trance

    as I've never ridden one, just a Blur VPP. My Stumpy does me well, and since I cant climb worth a dang, I can't comment there either.

    let's just say they're both great bikes, but I prefer the 4 bar vs. VPP, even though I've had 3 SC bikes in past. I didn't like the feel of the VPP personally, so I didn't get one.

    Cheers, Jim

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    Pulled this off of the Giant website, according to them FSR and Maestro are equal on everything except pedalling efficiency. Trying to upload the graph but not sure how to do it.






    [graph.gif










    FSR (True Four-bar)
    Full range of bump compliance: A: From stutters to big hits, Four-bar excels in bump compliance.
    Pedaling efficiency: B: With its near-vertical wheelpath (but not perfectly vertical), the compressing rear wheel pulls back slightly on the chain when in the smallest chainring.
    Braking Independence: A: This type of suspension remains completely active even under heavy braking.

    Linkage (Semi Four-bar)
    Full range of bump compliance: A: Bump compliance is still very good
    Pedaling efficiency: B: Pedals well, with only minor pedal feedback
    Braking independence: C: Because the pivot is on the seatstay, not the chainstay, these bikes experience significant brake jacking

    Single Pivot
    Full range of bump compliance: B: Dependent on shock technology, single pivots can react fairly to both stutters and larger hits.
    Pedaling efficiency: D: Highly reliant on shock technology and completely dependent on pivot placement, single pivot bikes can exhibit the greatest levels of pedal feedback (depending on which chainring the rider is in).
    Braking independence: D: Unless a brake idler arm is used (very rare) single pivots exhibit high levels of brake jack.

    Virtual Pivot Point
    Full range of bump compliance: B: Dependent on whether the chain is under tension or not, VPP can be fairly reactive to varying sizes of bumps.
    Pedaling efficiency: B: With it's S-shaped wheelpath, the VPP design intestinally utilizes pedal feedback to keep the suspension "locked-out" in its initial travel under pedaling force. This design results in pedal feedback as the suspension compresses through its initial travel.
    Braking independence: A: Performs very well under braking.

    Monolink
    Full range of bump compliance: C: Heavily dependent on whether the rider is seated or standing, this design also exhibits heavy pedal influence on the suspension. Crank hard and the suspension stiffens-up significantly.
    Pedaling efficiency: C: Because the suspension is influenced by pedaling input, the opposite is also true; suspension compression pulls back on the cranks, making Monolink relatively inefficient.
    Braking independence: B: Heavy braking can influence suspension suppleness.

    Maestro
    Full range of bump compliance: A: From rapid-fire stutters to heavy "G-out" compression hits, Maestro remains fully active under all types of impacts.
    Pedaling efficiency: A-: Only the slightest amount of pedaling feedback can be felt in the small chainring, making Maestro the most efficient pedaler on the trail.
    Braking independence: A: Heavy braking has no influence on the suppleness of Maestro

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    Looks like it worked.

    Does anyone have an opinion on how giant broke it down?

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    53
    Is anyone surprised that Giant ranks their suspension design higher than that used by their competitors? It may very well be, but I'd be more interested in seeing an analysis done by a professional team of folks that don't have a financial interest in the results. For instance, I know the Ellsworth site has a chart that suggests their design (similar to FSR type but they call it something else) excels above all others. Not sure if it mentions Maestro though.

    Personally I chose the Stumpy because I wanted something more adept on technical terrain. Plus I've got enough aches and pains where I prefer to have the bike take the beating instead of me. The Stumpy does that better than the Trance. If my riding style were more XC oriented the Trance would have been tough to beat.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    You have to expect the report to be biased towards Giant. So it would seem to me that it if the same study was done by an independant the results would favor FSR (since Giant basically judged it a tie). They give no information as to what tests were done and how the values translate. As far as we know a value of 1 on the graph could be half of a percent under coditions that favor the Maestro. I would say the graph speaks highly for the FSR since it was done by Giant.

    My impression thus far, from what i've read, was that the Brain equipped FSR is the most efficient.

  29. #29
    Going for a ride......
    Reputation: energetix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,145
    So true - about it being biased. I remember reading a big spread - a few pages or so on Specialized bikes in a MTB magazine. Of course the diagrams they drew showed the specialized wheel path being better than anything else (maestro and just about every competitor bike sketches were included). I wouldn't fully believe the marketing from any manufacturer - because that's what it is, marketing and not a factual unbiased study.

    I don't know how you can say that the specialized absorbs bumps better than the trance or any other bike for that matter. In my opinion suspension systems should be well developed enough now to be pretty equal in that regard, absorbing bumps isn't the problem it's more isolating the effect on other things like pedaling efficiency, performance under braking etc.

    That's just my understanding though, and I will not claim that I'm anywhere near proficient in understanding all the different systems out there.
    energetix



  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by energetix

    I don't know how you can say that the specialized absorbs bumps better than the trance or any other bike for that matter.
    My assertion that the Stumpy absorbs bumps better is based on the fact that it has more travel in the front and rear shocks than the Trance. By that logic I would contend the Giant Reign (w/ 6 inches of travel) absorbs bumps better than the Stumpy. Perhaps I could have stated that better initially.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    58
    Matsuura, Why is it not possible for you to test ride both bikes? I saw earlier in this comparison that you said you would only get to ride the FSR?
    Been workin' on bike's since I was 14. I'm 25 now and still don't know everything.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    The Specialized dealer has a demo bike available for me to take for a day but the Giant dealer i had originally gone had no trances to demo for more than just a ride around the lot. I have since found a giant dealer where the owner might let me ride his 07' trance 0 for a few hours. So it looks like i will probably get the opportunity to demo both.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    58
    I am confident that the Trances performance will blow you away.
    Been workin' on bike's since I was 14. I'm 25 now and still don't know everything.

  34. #34
    Calm Like a Bomb
    Reputation: pipes10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,092
    just looking at the 2007 stumpjumper fsr comp on the specialized website and their catalogue....they only state they have it in green or silver....do they also carry it in black and red????

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ReXTless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    446
    The 2007 SJ FSR Comp comes in black with red accents or green with black accents. At least that's the story in the US. I'm not sure about color schemes for this model in other geographic regions.

    I've seen the black/red in person and it looks great. Haven't seen a shop with a green one one on the show floor.

  36. #36
    Calm Like a Bomb
    Reputation: pipes10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,092
    yeah i'm in Canada and the only have this model in green or silver....the US has it in the black/red which i love

    i need to find a way to get the US model now

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.