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  1. #1
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    New frame need advice

    I currently have a soma b side v3 in large (18). I am looking at POSSIBLY a new frame (depending on finances) but canít find a suitable replacement. I want to transfer as many parts as possible. I want a frame with more stack and less reach and a longer HT length so I can ditch the Jones H bars 2.5 and just run regular Jones loops. I just hand built new wheels for this thing 4 months ago. My wheels have Hope pro 4 evo hubs in 135/130 spacing laced to stans flow rims with 29mm internal width. Lastly I use my bike as a do it all. Living in Iowa I ride a LOT of gravel/dirt roads, a little singletrack, and I love bike packing. This bike has done it all well.

    Conditions for new frame must be:
    Must be speced 650b wheel size
    Must have clearance for 2.8 tires
    Must fit existing hubs
    Prefer 68/73mm BB shell
    Must have geometry to work with Jones loop H bars
    Must be steel!!


    I would prefer to re use my Salsa Firestarter fork if steerer isnít too short on new frame as I just got it got Christmas last year. Are there any steel frames on the market that check these boxes? Main issue with my existing frame is the short head tube. Otherwise itís a sweet ride. Tired of having high rise bars combined with high rise stems combined with stacks of spacers to get my bars at seat height.

    Lastly just so I feel justified here, I do not have the money to buy now and I MAY NOT do it at all, but this is something I keep re visiting lately and just wanted to know what all is out there. If something was available that did not require me to re mortgage my house I might seriously consider.

  2. #2
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    Geo chart for reference
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New frame need advice-552d4ccf-9993-4da8-afe1-c049d4c95e6e.jpg  


  3. #3
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    What is your target stack and reach? You should compare those numbers on bikegeo.net. you might find that you can make the exact same fit with a change of stem.

    How tall are you? Crank arm length?

    The singlespeed forum has a lot of steel frame discussion. Vassago tends to make LONG frames, and the Kona Honzo is also long. Chumba might have something for you.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I could look it up, but please list the current and target stack and reach you're going for. You should compare those numbers on bikegeo.net. you might find that you can make the exact same fit with a change of stem.

    How tall are you? Crank arm length?

    I am 6í with 34 inseam and proportioned evenly. Current cranks are Race Face ride at 175mm. I just posted a geo chart. Mine is sized large

  5. #5
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    430-440mm reach perhaps. The Jones bar has a lot of setback.

    Soma Valhallen
    Vassago Jabberwocky- medium for you
    Surly Karate Monkey
    Heyduke Advocate
    Reeb?
    Chumba Stella

    Why are your bars so high? Medical reasons or possible weak core muscles?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    430-440mm reach perhaps. The Jones bar has a lot of setback.

    Soma Valhallen
    Vassago Jabberwocky- medium for you
    Surly Karate Monkey
    Heyduke Advocate
    Reeb?
    Chumba Stella

    Why are your bars so high? Medical reasons or possible weak core muscles?
    Bars that high cause many conversations with Jeff jones and I tend to buy what heís saying. No medical reasons but I donít ride often enough to have super core for long brutal 50+ mile Iowa gravel rides with 5-7 k in elevation. Truth there. I guess now that I think, being 47 and 20 years of wrenching on cars, 10 years of working through winter as cable tv installer have taken a toll on my right arm. Possible symptoms of carpel tunnel and right tricep aggravation makes me want to have options to get low (very flexible body here) to stretch my back and get aero but also get upright with no weight on hands. Thatís why I like H bars. I canít even stand to ride my gravel bike with cowbells anymore. Donít like drops as much as I used to plus gravel around here lends itself well to fatter tires. 42s are too skinny for me lol.

    Of the bikes you
    Mention vassago is a 29er and Val hallen is boost spacing

  7. #7
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    The Jabberwocky can take B+ wheels no problem. It's built for 29x3s, so B+ tires would change the geo a bit, maybe for the better for your needs.

    Many 29ers will take B+ tires, so that will open a lot of options.

    Any bike with Boost spacing can be remedied with a little spacing adapter on a 142x12 hub.

    The selection of non-boost frames on the market shrinks every day. Just get used to the idea of using an adapter or stick to the used market.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    The Jabberwocky can take B+ wheels no problem. It's built for 29x3s, so B+ tires would change the geo a bit, maybe for the better for your needs.

    Any bike with Boost spacing can be remedied with a little spacing adapter on a 142x12 hub.
    What about 2.4-2.8? My rims are speced for that size not 3.0. And my hub is 135. Can I buy kits to make them 142?

  9. #9
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    If you can fit a 29x3 tire, you can certainly fit something smaller. It would lower the bb a bit and leave more room for mud. For the kond of riding you're doing, a lower BB might be good.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    If you can fit a 29x3 tire, you can certainly fit something smaller. It would lower the bb a bit and leave more room for mud. For the kond of riding you're doing, a lower BB might be good.
    True but still donít think itís possble to modify my current hubs up to 148 so still would have to build new wheels which I want to avoid

  11. #11
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    Hope hubs should have a conversion to 142, then you have to adapt the hub to boost. Like it of not, boost is here to stay, so you're going to have to do that one way or another. There are exceedingly few frames with 135mm spacing and the number of 142mm is shrinking fast as well.

    Surly has a lot of good options for you. The new KM is very adaptable for a variety of modern hubs and wheels. The Bridge Club might work for you too.

    Why not Jones?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Hope hubs should have a conversion to 142, then you have to adapt the hub to boost. Like it of not, boost is here to stay, so you're going to have to do that one way or another. There are exceedingly few frames with 135mm spacing and the number of 142mm is shrinking fast as well.

    Surly has a lot of good options for you. The new KM is very adaptable for a variety of modern hubs and wheels. The Bridge Club might work for you too.

    Why not Jones?
    Jeff told me last night that you would have a hard time buying one of his frames and adapting old parts. I canít afford 3 grand for a new bike.

  13. #13
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    https://www.jensonusa.com/Hope-Pro-2...m-X-135mm-Thru

    https://www.artscyclery.com/Problem_...-PSBSTADA.html

    Yeah, it's a PITA but stuff changes. Either buy a used frame, pay $$$ for a custom, or buy adapt your old hubs.

  14. #14
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    Size large Surly Bridge Club! Just checked the geo on that, looks like it checks all the boxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    https://www.jensonusa.com/Hope-Pro-2...m-X-135mm-Thru

    https://www.artscyclery.com/Problem_...-PSBSTADA.html

    Yeah, it's a PITA but stuff changes. Either buy a used frame, pay $$$ for a custom, or buy adapt your old hubs.
    So I can buy adapters to make my hubs 142 then buy a kit to make it then 148? Why canít u just buy a kit to go 135 to 148? I guess I am more visual and understand better if I can see/hold something in my hand. Hard to understand on words alone lol.

  16. #16
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    The axle kit would make the hub fit in the frame. The boost kit will make the rotor line up with the brake.

    A Bridge Club would circumvent all of that.

    Velo Orange might have some options too.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Size large Surly Bridge Club! Just checked the geo on that, looks like it checks all the boxes.
    I like the bridge club! Trouble is I already looked at it and surly wonít sell just a frame and fork. They have no plans so youíre stuck buying the whole bike. 😞

  18. #18
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    Buy the bike, sell the parts that you don't use.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Buy the bike, sell the parts that you don't use.
    Thought about it lol. I might. Of course sounds like the karate monkey might tick the boxes too.

  20. #20
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    Iím going to have to do my homework. Your comment about adapting my hubs to 142 then adapting to 148 so my rotors line up lost me. I got a good LBS whoís a surly dealer and I think I am going to sit down with him and let him assist me. But now my wife is saying to wait till next year at tax time so bummer this might be a long wait!!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowamtb View Post
    Iím going to have to do my homework. Your comment about adapting my hubs to 142 then adapting to 148 so my rotors line up lost me.
    the spacing on a 148 booth hub/ frame is different in more than one way. the axle, of course, is 12mm, so you would need to start by converting your 135x10 hub to 142x12 so you have the right diameter. the spacing for both the drivetrain and the rotor are different on Boost, but you can make drivetrain work, but if you don't also space the rotor away from the hub on a boost frame, the rotor will never fit in the caliper. hence the need for a spacer to make the 12mm axle wide enough for the frame and to put the rotor in the right place to be functional.

    I think a conventional hub's chainline can work on a Boost frame, but don't quote me on that. if you're using a 650B+ wheelset, you'd probably benefit from going full-on Boost though. might be worth considering.

    I share your frustration though. I have owned a few frames over the past few years and going from 135 to 142 was enough of a pain. at least most hubs can be converted easily with an axle change. however, the move to Boost requires new hubs or goofy conversions. When you buy a new hubset, it sucks because you expect those hubs to last you a long, long time. I'll resist the boost thing as long as I can because my Hadley hub was not cheap.

    many frames that have adjustable dropouts from Paragon Machine Works or IRD (Kona, Soma, Vassago, Chumba, etc) might work as they usually have more than one dropout/ axle option.

    if you want to save money and get something that will work, look into an older Karate Monkey or something like that. Probably lots of steel options out there like old Monocogs and Gunnar frames that have "old" geometry. a lot of old 29ers will take B+ tires.

    I am kind of surpised that you want plus sized tires for the type of riding you're doing. I ride a rigid singlespeed with 29er 2.25-2.4 tires and would only go plus sized for really gnarly trails.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    the spacing on a 148 booth hub/ frame is different in more than one way. the axle, of course, is 12mm, so you would need to start by converting your 135x10 hub to 142x12 so you have the right diameter. the spacing for both the drivetrain and the rotor are different on Boost, but you can make drivetrain work, but if you don't also space the rotor away from the hub on a boost frame, the rotor will never fit in the caliper. hence the need for a spacer to make the 12mm axle wide enough for the frame and to put the rotor in the right place to be functional.

    I think a conventional hub's chainline can work on a Boost frame, but don't quote me on that. if you're using a 650B+ wheelset, you'd probably benefit from going full-on Boost though. might be worth considering.

    I share your frustration though. I have owned a few frames over the past few years and going from 135 to 142 was enough of a pain. at least most hubs can be converted easily with an axle change. however, the move to Boost requires new hubs or goofy conversions. When you buy a new hubset, it sucks because you expect those hubs to last you a long, long time. I'll resist the boost thing as long as I can because my Hadley hub was not cheap.

    many frames that have adjustable dropouts from Paragon Machine Works or IRD (Kona, Soma, Vassago, Chumba, etc) might work as they usually have more than one dropout/ axle option.

    if you want to save money and get something that will work, look into an older Karate Monkey or something like that. Probably lots of steel options out there like old Monocogs and Gunnar frames that have "old" geometry. a lot of old 29ers will take B+ tires.

    I am kind of surpised that you want plus sized tires for the type of riding you're doing. I ride a rigid singlespeed with 29er 2.25-2.4 tires and would only go plus sized for really gnarly trails.
    I am starting to reconsider keeping what I got. Really I was thinking different geo so I could get my bars higher with standard Jones h bars. Currently I am running the 2.5 riser versions. Maybe I should just stick with what I have as the bike rides really really nice. You know the old n+1 theory LOL? Itís fun to dream but it sounds like itís going to be more of a pain than itís worth. Iíll just wait until I can afford to build a whole new bike from the ground up. Maybe I can satisfy my urges with a fresh powder coat job this winter

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Dude! Thank you. I will put that in the book marks

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