Need a new frame! HELP ME PLEASE! (yes you!)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Need a new frame! HELP ME PLEASE! (yes you!)

    I've had my tassajara for about a year now and what's apparent to me is its TOO BIG. Its a 21" and with genesis geometry the top tube is more like a 23" bike (its 25"+ ETT). I'm all stretched out and when I try to move and control the bike (I think you guys call it "huckability" --sorry I'm a noob), i can't get any leverage.

    I've been searching for a new frame (I have a bunch of upgraded parts to swap). I want a more compact ride and light. I'm 6"2, but with a bit shorter arms, 205lbs with my gear. One of those bike fitting programs said a typical 18-19" bike would work for me. As for my style: I crash because I suck, but otherwise don't ride too hard. 80% of my riding is commuting around the city anyway.

    I've looked at Kona Primo/Deluxe (hard to find), Kona Supreme, Klein attitude (ebay), and specialized M5 s-works (too much bank).

    Then I got thinking....maybe I should go with a cheaper frame--say a leader 516H or the new Ibex Trophy that's coming out. I also saw a Jamis 2005 Dakota on jenson for $145

    So to boil it down:

    -Kona Primo $450
    -Kona Supreme $550
    -Leader 516H $145
    -Jamis Dakota $150
    -Ibex Trophy $299

    I'm going to try to test maybe the Kona's, but its hard for me to tell how something works without riding it on my trails. I have an idea of what my new geometry should be like on paper: ~24" ETT, ~31" Standover, BB Height ~12" and able to take a 100mm fork. With one of those cheaper frames I could perhaps get a lighter, shorter travel fork, such as the Reba Team I've been eying up.

    I guess the bottom line is I'm looking for feedback on the frames, particularly the cheaper ones. I just found the Jamis last night. Looks sweet.

    Thanks for your help

    Edit: I did see a Moto Rapido on ebay and a 19" Fisher HKEK for 100 bucks on ebay, but I'm not sure about used on ebay....

  2. #2
    Cuánto pesa?
    Reputation: Jake Pay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigduddy
    Edit: I did see a Moto Rapido on ebay and a 19" Fisher HKEK for 100 bucks on ebay, but I'm not sure about used on ebay....
    I'd stay clear of used frames unless its a friend that's selling a frame that you know hasn't been doing mega drops and stairs at speed..Those hair line stress cracks can be hard to see until its to late..

    If you go with the leader, the size wont be as advertised..I order the 516H in a 17" and it was an 18" in reality..Leader USA measures the seat tube from the top of the BB shell rather than the center..The frame was nicely painted and welded and handled well, but sliding off the seat at quick stops could be a tadd bit unpleasant..I gave it to my younger brother (40) and at 6' its right for him..

    As you already know I'm on the first (click>) 07' Trophy Pro (frameset)..I got lucky when the frame that was sent to IBEX for final inspection on the decals was a 16" like I had pre-ordered..Since I was the first to order the 16", I got it..

    I do all my own builds and so far have been very pleased with this frame..The rear triangle does an amazing job of sucking up the vibrations associated with hardtails..The 70 degree head-tube is quite user friendly at fast XC (my style) and plays well in the tight single track..Oh well, I'm not good at this tech talk but I know what rides great for myself..

    I've not spent enough or any time on the other frames you mentioned yet I have heard only good about the Kona geometry..

    Good luck on your quest

    Jake..

    PS. Sorry no red decals
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    Last edited by Jake Pay; 03-12-2007 at 09:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    Have you thought about a steel frame?

    If I ever get a hardtail again, it will NOT be aluminum. Too stiff and punishing for me.

    A quailty steel frame has a wonderful ride characteristic, it mutes trail vibration, and is strong.
    Although is heavier than alu, has rust potential, and lacks the big tube, fat weld look.

    http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...Frames%2FBikes

  4. #4
    Glorified Hybrid Owner
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    Have you looked at the Kona Kula that Bikeman.com has?

    They were $199 last year...$229 now.
    https://www.bikemannetwork.com/bikin...KON/KON-KULA07


  5. #5
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    Very nice bike Jake. Cool pictures too.

    I like the way that Trophy frame looks. I have not ridden that particular frame, so I would not be able to comment about its performance.

    That Kona is a nice frame too. I used to ride a Kona Kula Deluxe (2005/2006) bike. I loved the way the Kula frame felt - its fairly light and sweet handling....I dont know what Kona did with this frame, but I think they hit the sweetspot by blending in comfort, performance and durability in one package.

    I am a fan of Konas oval tubing hardtail frames....I hate that they changed their frame tubing on the XC hardtail and now call them backcountry hardtail....
    Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose. - Bill Gates

  6. #6
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    I am not a proponent of buying online, but if thats what you want to do this is a good option.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-07-Giant-XTC...QQcmdZViewItem

    This guy has this frame in different colors and sizes (check out the link below). Couple of the guys of my riding groups got this frame from him and they are very happy.

    http://stores.ebay.com/M-R-BikeStore...QQftidZ2QQtZkm
    Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose. - Bill Gates

  7. #7
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    Reputation: Jake Pay's Avatar
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    Have ya narrowed it down bigduddy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orca
    Very nice bike Jake. Cool pictures too.
    Thanks, I'm lovin' it
    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Have you looked at the Kona Kula that Bikeman.com has?
    They were $199 last year...$229 now.
    https://www.bikemannetwork.com/bikin...KON/KON-KULA07
    Quote Originally Posted by Orca
    I like the way that Trophy frame looks. I have not ridden that particular frame, so I would not be able to comment about its performance.
    That Kona is a nice frame too. I used to ride a Kona Kula Deluxe (2005/2006) bike. I loved the way the Kula frame felt - its fairly light and sweet handling....I dont know what Kona did with this frame, but I think they hit the sweetspot by blending in comfort, performance and durability in one package. .
    The Kula is a sweet frame, with its 69 degree head tube it should make for fast agile XC ride..

    But don't forget the
    Trophy PRO.........Yeah baby

    Jake..
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  8. #8
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    Never Thought I'd Hear Those Words In The Same Sentance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pay

    with its 69 degree head tube it should make for fast agile XC ride..
    Fast maybe, but agile like a loaded wheelbarrow. 70 is pretty slack for XC and the 42.5"ish wheelbase is also a bit long for agile handling.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca
    I am not a proponent of buying online, but if thats what you want to do this is a good option.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-07-Giant-XTC...QQcmdZViewItem

    This guy has this frame in different colors and sizes (check out the link below). Couple of the guys of my riding groups got this frame from him and they are very happy.

    http://stores.ebay.com/M-R-BikeStore...QQftidZ2QQtZkm
    I emailed Giant about those frames and they told me they "are not sold by Giant" and have no warranty. Kind of cryptic. I never followed up the email to ask if they came out of the Giant factory, if they are real, etc.

  10. #10
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    As far as narrowing it down, I really like the looks and feedback about the Trophy. I will probably hold out for that unless some smoking deal comes along for one of the kona's. I am a little worried about the wheel base issue though. My Tass has me stretched out and seems so long I can't maneuver it for crap. Of course, I stink at mountain biking so that could be a big part of it.

    Another thought I was mulling was trying the Jamis or Leader as a cheap option for the time being, then turn it into a commuter and buy the Ibex eventually....

    edit: oh and my tass wheel base is ~44"

  11. #11
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    They're Real

    Its just that a lot of manufacturers won't support frames/bikes that aren't sold by official dealers. A lot of companies don't allow online sales of their bikes either.

    That said I wouldn't worry about it. Mountain bike warranty sould be some sort of oxymoron. Read the fine print. Most of them are void if you race, some are void if you ride "off road" or do any home maintenance. Buying a bike (or anything else IMHO) based on warranty is pretty silly.

    XTC's are nice frames. If the price is right I would definitely consider them.
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  12. #12
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    Yikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigduddy

    edit: oh and my tass wheel base is ~44"
    No wonder you stink at mountain biking

    One of the bikes from from OCC has got to maneuver better than that off road!
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne
    Its just that a lot of manufacturers won't support frames/bikes that aren't sold by official dealers. A lot of companies don't allow online sales of their bikes either.

    That said I wouldn't worry about it. Mountain bike warranty sould be some sort of oxymoron. Read the fine print. Most of them are void if you race, some are void if you ride "off road" or do any home maintenance. Buying a bike (or anything else IMHO) based on warranty is pretty silly.

    XTC's are nice frames. If the price is right I would definitely consider them.
    That's kind of what I thought. I doubted they were counterfeit and Giant's response was vague enough to tell me what I needed to know.

  14. #14
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    Dakota!

    As long as its Steel of course. If not try and find a steel Dakota. I currently ride Jamis Dragon and its solid ride with great geometry that fits well.

    And at the price you listed assuming it is a steel frame its a hell of a deal.

    I don't have any exerience with the others so I can't help there.
    "you don't wanna know and I don't know!"

  15. #15
    Glorified Hybrid Owner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pay
    The Kula is a sweet frame, with its 69 degree head tube it should make for fast agile XC ride..
    Only if you run a 100mm fork...get an 80mm and you'd be have a 71deg ht and a 73deg st.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayne
    Its just that a lot of manufacturers won't support frames/bikes that aren't sold by official dealers. A lot of companies don't allow online sales of their bikes either.

    That said I wouldn't worry about it. Mountain bike warranty sould be some sort of oxymoron. Read the fine print. Most of them are void if you race, some are void if you ride "off road" or do any home maintenance. Buying a bike (or anything else IMHO) based on warranty is pretty silly.

    XTC's are nice frames. If the price is right I would definitely consider them.

    Very good comments about Warranty. Its more marketing fluff than anything else. I put a variable travel fork (85-120 mm) on my Kona Hardtail and according to Kona my Warranty is void. my bike is two years old. So, what good is warranty? Also, I had a Trek frame cracked....Trake replaced the frame, but the hassel and amount of energy I had to spend behind it was overwhelming and foolish.....

    Also, If I were buying an Aluminum frame I would not ride it for more than 5-7 years anyway.....Material fatigue is an issue with Aluminum.........also, there will be new technology, new desing in the market and I would want to take advantage of that

    .
    Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose. - Bill Gates

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigduddy
    I will probably hold out for that unless some smoking deal comes along for one of the kona's. I am a little worried about the wheel base issue though. My Tass has me stretched out and seems so long I can't maneuver it for crap. Of course, I stink at mountain biking so that could be a big part of it.
    your Tass probably has a genesis geometry. hence the stretching forward positioning. Its not the matter of wheelbase. I dont think you will have this problem with Kona. I personally think that you have to ride a kona to feel the difference. Before I bought the my Koan, I have ridden a lots of bikes. I even drove 2.5 hours to test ride a Santa Cruz Chameleon. But, when I rode the Kona for around 20 minutes....I went back to the store smiling and placed the order right away. I knew what I wanted and that Kona had it all and more...

    Looks of a bike, especially, what you see on the internet, can be very deceiving. Dont buy a bike just by the looks or web based reviews....... Web based reviews are good as general guideline, only if you can point out the bias.

    remember (a geek with a computer and some basic web knowledge can make big comments about things that they dont have any experience with)......or, some one can take an XC bike for dirt jumping and not like the bike at all....the question is, was the bike good for its intended purpose or not...
    Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose. - Bill Gates

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