Gary Fisher Model Choice (Need Advice)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Smile Gary Fisher Model Choice (Need Advice)

    First, thank you to all who can help me make a good decision based on my two choices listed below.

    My local bike shop, of which I have dealt with before and do respect their dealings with me and their advice, have offered two choices for me. I am in the market to buy a hardtail and have narrowed it down to two choices they have offered me.

    I am looking at either a Gary Fisher Ziggurat 2004 model or a Gary Fisher Paragon 2002 model.

    The 2004 Ziggurat's specs are:
    http://www.fisherbikes.com/bikes/ful...&bike=Ziggurat

    The 2002 Paragon's specs are:
    http://www.fisherbikes.com/archive/f...agon&year=2002


    The Ziggurat I would leave pretty much 'stock' as the dealer price would be aproximately $1500.00.

    The Paragon's price would be approximately $1600.00 that would include the following upgrades (which stock is less in standards to the Ziggurat):
    Upgrades to the Paragon would be:
    SRAM 9.0 Trigger Shifters
    SRAM 9.0 Rear Derrailer
    Avid SD-7 Brakes/Levers
    Cane Creek S2 Aheadset
    Bontrager Race Stem
    XT-Crankset
    Rock Shox Duke Race
    Time Alium Pedals

    For my situation, I'm looking for the best bang for the buck. The 2002 Paragon is the same frame as the 2004 Ziggurat, however, I was under the impression that the older frame plus the upgrades would be 'less' than the current model (which has comprable components all around).

    I do trust my local bike shop, but would rather also get an opinion from the more experience folks on this forum.

    Thank you and again, I appreciate your input.

    Regards,
    yobdlog
    [email protected]
    Last edited by yobdlog; 02-05-2004 at 08:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    Is the 2002 a used bike? If it is, they are smoking some serious drugs to think it is worth that kind of money. For example take a look at this Carbon Fiber 2003 trek hardtail for $1200 http://marketplace.consumerreview.co...uery=retrieval

    It is a far better bike for less money.

    Just out of curiosity, why are you looking at a Hardtail for $1500? At that price point you should be looking at FS bike. The only reason you should be even looking at a hardtail is if all you want to do is race it. Before you buy, I would strongly suggest that you go look at the FS bikes from Specialized, Fisher, Trek, Giant, and Kona.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    Is the 2002 a used bike? If it is, they are smoking some serious drugs to think it is worth that kind of money. For example take a look at this Carbon Fiber 2003 trek hardtail for $1200 http://marketplace.consumerreview.co...uery=retrieval

    It is a far better bike for less money.

    Just out of curiosity, why are you looking at a Hardtail for $1500? At that price point you should be looking at FS bike. The only reason you should be even looking at a hardtail is if all you want to do is race it. Before you buy, I would strongly suggest that you go look at the FS bikes from Specialized, Fisher, Trek, Giant, and Kona.
    Thanks for your reply. The 2002 is New Old Stock (never sold and was still in stock box).

    I'm looking at a hardtail because I will be training/racing with it as I gear up for a Central American Trek. I have many friends and family who are currently involved with trekking across Chiapas, Guatemala, and Belize. The hardtail is most warranted as the 'less can go wrong' principle applies and the trails are mostly singletrack and XC. Full shock wasn't recommended as a failed mechanism could really prove hazardous and/or cost a lot of time and money to get to a facility to get it serviced when out in the middle of nowhere. The riders I am going with are quite experienced and have guided me to get the 'best' hardtail that has the most serviceable and easy to replace components if need be for the Latin American journey. Gary Fisher was a natural choice because of availability in Guatemala City and Belize and the components I chose were chosen out of recommendation and research on reliability and endurance quality.

    I'm a tad confused as how a supposed lesser price older frame (though still new) with components upgraded to be of equal 'value' and consistency with the '04 specifications still cost $200.00 more. Its not a big deal as for financial sake I'd just get the '04 Ziggurat for that matter, but am curious to see if I'm missing something about the pricing schema of this scenario.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by yobdlog
    I'm a tad confused as how a supposed lesser price older frame (though still new) with components upgraded to be of equal 'value' and consistency with the '04 specifications still cost $200.00 more. Its not a big deal as for financial sake I'd just get the '04 Ziggurat for that matter, but am curious to see if I'm missing something about the pricing schema of this scenario.
    It's called your dealer is screwing you. Sorry.


    I would make a few suggestions for the type of riding you are considering, mind you I have a Fisher Hardtail and like fisher bikes.

    1) The Ziggernaut is not the correct bike for what you are doing. It is a cross country bike. Also, the fork it uses has a reputation for failing, the hubs in the Bontranger Wheels are known for random failures, rim brakes are not good in wet conditions when loaded, aluminum frames can break.

    2) If you are really concerned about realiability and ability to fix in the field, I would go with a steel frame. Check out the Salsa Ala Carte, Jamis makes some steel hardtails, and there are many others out there.

    3) Run a 100mm coil sprung fork, not an air fork. It will be more reliable and provide a much better ride than an 80 mm fork. Ones that come to mind are the Fox Vanilla, Manitou Black and Marzochii forks.

    4) Given you will probably have a load on you, as well as wet conditions, I would go with Avid Mechanical Brakes, disk brake stopping, rim brake reliability. At a minimum run a front disk with rear rim.

    5) Run good old fashion Shimano XT components, Octalink Cranks, with a LX rear cassette (XT cassettes have been known to bend), SRAM chain.

    6) Use Thomson Seatpost and Stem. Look for a good riser bar, comfort and strength are more important than weight.

    7) Wheels. I would seriously be looking at hand build wheels from Larry at mtnhighcyclery or oddandendos. If you are serious that money is not super importantant, there is no question of getting Chris King Hubs (most reliable and lightest) and probably DT wheels. Both of these guys can advise you what is best for your needs and build you very reliable strong wheels that don't weigh a ton.

    8) Start looking at some good all condition 2.1-2.3" tires.

    This would much more resemble a bike that I would want to ride if I were going in the back country. Being able to get warrantee service and parts don't matter when you are in the middle of nowhere, not breaking does. This bike will not be the lightest, probably 28-30 pounds, but it will be very reliable.

  5. #5

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    I have actually taken much of your advice. I have a Ziggs with Avid mechanicals (185mm), Mavic 819 disc/ust rims with Kings ISO disc hubs, WTB rocket v stealth saddle, WTB weirwolf 2.1 ust tires, Avid flak jackets for shifters and brakes, and will be ordering the Thomson stem and seat post, as well as the Answer Carbon ProTaper riser handlebars.

    I would stay with the hardtail. Price has nothing to do with whether you should buy a FS or HT. For my riding a FS is unneccesary. A friend of mine has a FS Giant and wishes he had bought a HT.

    For further comments see my post in the Fisher/Trek forum.

    Brandon.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    It's called your dealer is screwing you. Sorry.


    I would make a few suggestions for the type of riding you are considering, mind you I have a Fisher Hardtail and like fisher bikes.

    1) The Ziggernaut is not the correct bike for what you are doing. It is a cross country bike. Also, the fork it uses has a reputation for failing, the hubs in the Bontranger Wheels are known for random failures, rim brakes are not good in wet conditions when loaded, aluminum frames can break.

    2) If you are really concerned about realiability and ability to fix in the field, I would go with a steel frame. Check out the Salsa Ala Carte, Jamis makes some steel hardtails, and there are many others out there.

    3) Run a 100mm coil sprung fork, not an air fork. It will be more reliable and provide a much better ride than an 80 mm fork. Ones that come to mind are the Fox Vanilla, Manitou Black and Marzochii forks.

    4) Given you will probably have a load on you, as well as wet conditions, I would go with Avid Mechanical Brakes, disk brake stopping, rim brake reliability. At a minimum run a front disk with rear rim.

    5) Run good old fashion Shimano XT components, Octalink Cranks, with a LX rear cassette (XT cassettes have been known to bend), SRAM chain.

    6) Use Thomson Seatpost and Stem. Look for a good riser bar, comfort and strength are more important than weight.

    7) Wheels. I would seriously be looking at hand build wheels from Larry at mtnhighcyclery or oddandendos. If you are serious that money is not super importantant, there is no question of getting Chris King Hubs (most reliable and lightest) and probably DT wheels. Both of these guys can advise you what is best for your needs and build you very reliable strong wheels that don't weigh a ton.

    8) Start looking at some good all condition 2.1-2.3" tires.

    This would much more resemble a bike that I would want to ride if I were going in the back country. Being able to get warrantee service and parts don't matter when you are in the middle of nowhere, not breaking does. This bike will not be the lightest, probably 28-30 pounds, but it will be very reliable.

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