Coerced reviews or bribing for good reviews ?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Coerced reviews or bribing for good reviews ?

    Not good in my opinion, maybe even a little sleazy:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=257487

    I came across this thread a few hours after bikerbob posted it, before the edit.
    He basically said he was going to give away Titus merchandise(socks) to the
    first 5 people who posted positive reviews. I later checked out the Motolite review
    section and found 7 new reviews, all posted on that day, all 5 chilis.
    Motolite is one of the bikes I've been considering when looking to purchase a
    second, all mtn. type bike, but this makes me question how many of those
    reviews are really legit. I also noticed that a few of the Motolite reviewers
    posted twice, once after a few rides, and then another review months later, but this is
    unrelated to the reason I posted this thread.
    Anyway, I just thought I'd give the folks looking for bikes a heads up on this.
    I dont know how common this is, trolling for good reviews for a product you sell,
    (bikerbob sells Tituses)
    but at a minimum this means you should probably take many of these reviews, not
    just the Motolite, with a grain of salt, especially if the person does not have a lot of
    time on the bike or doesnt offer much about why the bike is a great bike.

  2. #2
    I railed it like Kong
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    How many socks did you get for starting a thread about people posting about the motolite, thus giving more attention to the bike? Huh?

    Just Kidding- I agree with you most of the posts in the product review sections should be taken with much salt. On several occasions i have pm'd the posters to ask them more in depth questions on their background and use of the product since the innitial review. Every one has sent back emails and i got a good feel of who was qualified to be giving advice.
    I'm UNIQUE... just like everybody else.

  3. #3
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    Bikerbob probably did it with good intent. He wanted to simply get people to post reviews. I personally would not have approached it that way but I'm not in his shoes. It's never good asking for reviews or good reviews in a public forum when you sell the product.

    Many took advantage of the low prices (under $1K) on last year's frames so there have been quite a few new Titus owners in the past 2-3 months.

    I think vendors/dealers have to be extremely careful when posting here, with good reason. I don't own a Titus, by the way.
    Last edited by Flyer; 01-05-2007 at 12:35 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer

    I think vendors/dealers have to be extremely careful when posting here, with good reason. I don't own a Titus, by the way.
    agree. the 'chili ratings' here are so tainted with non-owner/knucklehead reviews that I don't give them much credit at all. The descriptions/strengths/weaknesses is still helpful though.

    it doesn't mean much when one person gives 5 stars and suddenly another gives 1 star, averaging 2.5 stars.

    i don't own a titus. but i'm a man-whore, and if i saw that thread i would have posted a positive review for a pair of socks!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by misctwo
    i don't own a titus. but i'm a man-whore, and if i saw that thread i would have posted a positive review for a pair of socks!
    That was exactly my point. All seven of those reviews posted on the first look
    like they were hastily done without much thought having gone into them.
    I guess you have to sift through reviews carefully and separate the wheat
    from the chaffe. Perhaps the manuf. forums themselves are a better source
    for info. You can get some very helpful advice from knowledgeable people
    there, but of course you have the knuckleheads and brand loyalists who
    have a hard time engaging in open discussions about bikes/bikecompanies sometimes.

  6. #6
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I don't think BB did that with any nefarious intentions. He does sell that bike, and he maintains a high profile on the Titus board, so positive vibes around the bikes would obviously benefit him, but I seriously doubt this was his primary motivation. He just thought more of the ML owner crowd should post reviews since that model had about 30 percent fewer reviews (*gasp*) than some other popular trailbikes, and he wanted to give the board a kick in the shorts but sorta spaced out and only offered a prize to the "positive" reviews (whatever that means). I think he figured it all out (after some whining on my part ).

    A while back Ellsworth bikes offered a prize for the most gratuitously fawning review of an Ells bike posted to mtbr in a given time period. Now that was in poor taste...
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  7. #7
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    I think the Titus forum may have hurt le_buzz's wittle feewings a couple of weeks ago...



    There was a huge wind-up when he started talking about Titus spreading WMDs (here)

    le_buzz said
    "So is Howard Lindsay the one basically running Titus, or is it Pat Hus.
    I see that the first big thing on Howard Lindsay's resume is his designing/building
    of composite motors for nuclear warheads. Could I somehow be contributing to the
    spread of WMD's by buying a Titus ? Dont think I'd want to be a part of that.
    Could it be that Titus getting broken into was a little bit of karmic payback perhaps ?
    Yeah, I know, I'm way OT. Thats as far as Im gonna go in that direction, but it just seems
    odd that this composite company under this guys direction has wrestled control of a
    bicycle company whose only concern before the merger was making great bikes.
    At the end of the day, composites have nothing really to do with bikes.
    So now theres another issue to think about - is this the kind of company I want to be buying a bike from ? For me these questions still havent been resolved yet. I'm getting the feeling that if could be a fly on the wall in the Viatek board room and got to hear everything, I would probably rather not buy a bike from them. Its too bad, but it seems like the more I find out about this company the less I like it.


    Youre right, Warp, it is a bit speculative. And it could be that thats something he
    did at the time, I guess it was the height of the cold war - the '80's - and then
    moved on to other things. He could still have industry ties, though.
    I mean, its not a coup-de-gras. Its not a black and white, 'oh now Titus is awful, I cant
    buy from them' kind of thing. Its just, I dont know , the way the whole thing happened.
    Do you think these guys
    really cared that much about bikes, or was their primary concern wresling control of a
    profitable company. I'm not sure what it is, but something stinks about this.
    I know Titus has gone corporate, but still - hopefully no other bombshells will drop, and this
    will be the last negative thing we hear about Titus.

    Thats basically what I've been saying, in a round about way. Give them a chance, and dont draw any unnecessary conclusions. It'll all come out in the wash
    eventually. But you'd hate to get a Titus, and then have something come out down the
    road about the company that really makes you cringe. That a chance you take with
    a new company that doesnt have a solid reputation yet. We'll see.


    So Bikerbob said:

    "Vyatek new products



    <HR style="COLOR: #b7b7b7" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Just read in the trades that Vyatek has announced a new partnership with Canada. In addition to high tech tubing for buycycles, golf clubs, kayak paddles, and tennis rackets, they have introduced
    an exogrid club for killing baby fur seals in Newfoundland. Apparently the seal hunters were getting tired afer a few hours of clubbing so they teamed up with Vyatech to make a carbon/titanium club handle. Now they can harvest baby seals all day and not be worn out.

    Also announced-Vyatech is working with Japanese and Norwegian whalers to create a lightweight but strong harpoon. The perfect application for Exogrid technology. A "killer app" perhaps.

    In the works, an isogrid bar for chainsaws to make it easier to clearcut the rainforest.

    Le buzz warned us!"
    Last edited by dulyebr; 01-05-2007 at 06:07 PM.

  8. #8
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    A bribe for LaBuzz

    How many socks would it take for you to stay on the Santa Cruz and Politcal forums and stop maligning Titus (and me)?

    You know, everytime I buy a a car, or purchase electronics or cameras online, I am asked to review the product/service/buying experience.
    I, too, ask my customers for their reviews, of course, but only saw one or two in the last year. So I encouraged them with minimal schwag. Mt bikers are too tired from riding or lazy to write a review, so it was a bit of prodding. Doesn't take much, I found out.
    Then guys like you jump in and call it sleazy.(phonetic).
    Gotta love it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    I think the Titus forum may have hurt le_buzz's wittle feewings a couple of weeks ago...



    There was a huge wind-up when he started talking about Titus spreading WMDs (here)

    le_buzz said
    "So is Howard Lindsay the one basically running Titus, or is it Pat Hus.
    I see that the first big thing on Howard Lindsay's resume is his designing/building
    of composite motors for nuclear warheads. Could I somehow be contributing to the
    spread of WMD's by buying a Titus ? Dont think I'd want to be a part of that.
    Could it be that Titus getting broken into was a little bit of karmic payback perhaps ?
    Yeah, I know, I'm way OT. Thats as far as Im gonna go in that direction, but it just seems
    odd that this composite company under this guys direction has wrestled control of a
    bicycle company whose only concern before the merger was making great bikes.
    At the end of the day, composites have nothing really to do with bikes.
    So now theres another issue to think about - is this the kind of company I want to be buying a bike from ? For me these questions still havent been resolved yet. I'm getting the feeling that if could be a fly on the wall in the Viatek board room and got to hear everything, I would probably rather not buy a bike from them. Its too bad, but it seems like the more I find out about this company the less I like it.


    Youre right, Warp, it is a bit speculative. And it could be that thats something he
    did at the time, I guess it was the height of the cold war - the '80's - and then
    moved on to other things. He could still have industry ties, though.
    I mean, its not a coup-de-gras. Its not a black and white, 'oh now Titus is awful, I cant
    buy from them' kind of thing. Its just, I dont know , the way the whole thing happened.
    Do you think these guys
    really cared that much about bikes, or was their primary concern wresling control of a
    profitable company. I'm not sure what it is, but something stinks about this.
    I know Titus has gone corporate, but still - hopefully no other bombshells will drop, and this
    will be the last negative thing we hear about Titus.

    Thats basically what I've been saying, in a round about way. Give them a chance, and dont draw any unnecessary conclusions. It'll all come out in the wash
    eventually. But you'd hate to get a Titus, and then have something come out down the
    road about the company that really makes you cringe. That a chance you take with
    a new company that doesnt have a solid reputation yet. We'll see.


    So Bikerbob said:

    "Vyatek new products



    <HR style="COLOR: #b7b7b7" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Just read in the trades that Vyatek has announced a new partnership with Canada. In addition to high tech tubing for buycycles, golf clubs, kayak paddles, and tennis rackets, they have introduced
    an exogrid club for killing baby fur seals in Newfoundland. Apparently the seal hunters were getting tired afer a few hours of clubbing so they teamed up with Vyatech to make a carbon/titanium club handle. Now they can harvest baby seals all day and not be worn out.

    Also announced-Vyatech is working with Japanese and Norwegian whalers to create a lightweight but strong harpoon. The perfect application for Exogrid technology. A "killer app" perhaps.

    In the works, an isogrid bar for chainsaws to make it easier to clearcut the rainforest.

    Le buzz warned us!"
    I agreed with Warp's post that that comment about WMD's was speculative, and
    that I should not impune Titus for something the new CEO did over 20
    years ago. I did not mean to inflame Titus stalwarts passions with that comment.
    Maybe I should have censored myself before posting that,

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    How many socks would it take for you to stay on the Santa Cruz and Politcal forums and stop maligning Titus (and me)?

    You know, everytime I buy a a car, or purchase electronics or cameras online, I am asked to review the product/service/buying experience.
    I, too, ask my customers for their reviews, of course, but only saw one or two in the last year. So I encouraged them with minimal schwag. Mt bikers are too tired from riding or lazy to write a review, so it was a bit of prodding. Doesn't take much, I found out.
    Then guys like you jump in and call it sleazy.(phonetic).
    Gotta love it.
    Ha Ha, I have to admit I like your sense of humor even though I find some of your
    business practices borderline unethical. Maybe I should say salesman practices,
    not business practices; you seem to have a decent reputation on the business side,
    I'll admit. What drove me to post this thread, Bob, was your use of the word
    'positive' in your first post, before the edit. So the reviews were supposed to be
    positive to get the socks. Shouldnt the bike be able to stand on its own merit
    without some outsider - not a consumer, but a vendor - driving up the
    ratings in the reviews. I thought there were plenty of good reviews of the Motolite
    before. Just because, as you mentioned, that there were less reviews than the BLT,
    I dont think is a reason to incite positive reviews with the promise of
    merchandise. Thats just plain outright republican sleeeezy smelly, man !

  11. #11
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Boy, this got weird fast.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  12. #12
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    I've seen a lot of vendor/dealer posts go downhill fast and that's probably the reason many don't post or have a policy that no shop employess should post. At least some guys got socks for their efforts. I've spent a fortune on biking socks in the past week.

    The Cold War connection, baby seals, and harpoons sure starts off a brisk Saturday morning in fine fashion. It's time to go hunt some squirrels and chipmunks for breakfast. All this seal/whale talk made me hungry.

  13. #13
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    Off the wall comments or misguided punk

    La_Buzz, can you not say something without being offensive?

    Your quote:

    "Just an observation after reading
    through some of the thread topics here
    recently:
    Whats up with all the name calling ?"

    Or your comments about MTBR's administrators:

    "Now they dont even have that, and my
    opinion of them now is in adding this forum they were just trolling for advertising
    dollars. Scumbags."

    Or:

    "Yes, I realized later that I made a couple of strongly worded statements based on
    assumptions that may or may not be correct. I even thought about editing those out
    as they could get me in trouble with the site administrators, but I had already logged off
    and didnt feel like going through the hassle"

    Or:

    "Oops, here I go making strongly worded statements again, so I will leave this forum
    to the aforementioned folks."

    Or:

    "Could I somehow be contributing to the
    spread of WMD's by buying a Titus ? Dont think I'd want to be a part of that.
    Could it be that Titus getting broken into was a little bit of karmic payback perhaps ?"

    Or:

    " I'm getting the feeling that if could be a fly on the wall in the Viatek board room and got to hear everything, I would probably rather not buy a bike from them. Its too bad, but it seems like the more I find out about this company the less I like it."

    Or:

    "Do you think these guys
    really cared that much about bikes, or was their primary concern wresling control of a
    profitable company. I'm not sure what it is, but something stinks about this.
    I know Titus has gone corporate, but still."

    Or:

    "But you'd hate to get a Titus, and then have something come out down the
    road about the company that really makes you cringe. That a chance you take with
    a new company that doesnt have a solid reputation yet."

    Or:

    "I agreed with Warp's post that that comment about WMD's was speculative, and
    that I should not impune Titus for something the new CEO did over 20
    years ago. I did not mean to inflame Titus stalwarts passions with that comment.
    Maybe I should have censored myself before posting that"

    Or your comments about me:

    "I find some of your
    business practices borderline unethical. Maybe I should say salesman practices"

    Or more about me:

    "Not good in my opinion, maybe even a little sleazy"

    Or:

    "Thats just plain outright republican sleeeezy smelly, man !"

    Advice to Labuzz. Maybe you need to take a look at what you're saying. Mean spirited and misinformed at the same time-sort of like Bill O'Reilly.

    As for my politics, I'm somewhere between Naom Chomsky and Michael Moore.

    As for my business practices, for the past 10 years I have operated a small mountain bike- only shop in a state park. It's right beside the trails that a core group of us build and maintain. It's a unique mt. bike culture and many people got their first offroad experience and bike here.
    The shop is totally solar-powered, is full of mt bikes and trail work tools, and dirt on the floor. Not exactly a Republican stronghold. Air America is on the radio, bike tools and stands are available for free to anyone who needs them, IMBA socks and memberships offered, and our trail crew is always willing to show a newbie the coolest trails.
    I try to hook up whoever I can, do repairs for free when I can, and show people how to fix their own bikes. Meanwhile, I have to support my lifestyle by selling a few nice bikes. I think I make it possible for more people to get their dream bike with my "business practices" Geneorus trade-ins, running tabs for locals, or barter.

    If you bought your bike from a shop like mine, congratulations. If you get your hands on a Titus, better yet. Notice how my Racer X (with carbom stays) is fully capable of pulling a Bob trailer. Plus, IMBA Trail Care Crew visit to my shop and home.

    (I apologize in advance for the blatant Subaru ad in the photos. Hear that, IMBA, you corporate whores!)

    Meanwhile, take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. And edit your thoughts before you post or resort to name calling.

    Bikerbob
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bikerbob.com; 01-06-2007 at 08:34 AM.

  14. #14
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    I dig the solar power use. I love Subarus too and finally bought one. You have some great scenery pics as well, Bob. Do title a few- I was dying to know where the ones you posted a couple of weeks ago (Titus forum) were from.

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    My support goes to Bikerbob.

  16. #16
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    Thoughtless reviews?

    [QUOTE=le_buzz]That was exactly my point. All seven of those reviews posted on the first look
    like they were hastily done without much thought having gone into them.
    QUOTE]
    Really? Here's the first review that day. Guess he pulled it out of his *ss like some of your posts. Must have really needed socks to toss off the following

    Quoting Green Giant:

    "Custom Ti motolite with tweaked geometry. Pike U-turn air. King wheels, xtr/thomson/x.o


    Bottom Line: I've been fortunate enough to own a number of high-end 4-5 inch full suspension bikes. All of which are tremendous in their own right. However, the Motolite is the best of the bunch for me. 4-5 inches of travel (I use both settings). I tweaked the geometry on mine, but the handling is neutral without being sluggish. The advantage of this is that between forks, headset fork races, stems, and bars you can get it to handle how you want it to handle.

    Build quality on mine is top notch. The Ti work is right there with moots and seven (Titus should push their custom Ti program more, I've said this for years).

    One of the things that is so nice about this frame is that in it's neutral design (both the geometry and the suspension) it can really take advantage of the shock technology that is out now. The RP23 is just tremendous on this bike. It can be run with no pro-pedal and feel quite coil like, or the pro-pedal can be ramped up and the bike can be very effecient. 4 or 5 inches of travel. I can not stress how big of an advantage this is.

    I also still believe (having owned a few designs) that the horst link is still the most neutral out there. If designed properly for stiffness you can not beat it. It's not a huge difference, but it is a difference.

    Another suggestion if you are building from scratch - get a thru-axle front fork. It makes a big difference up front. I was shocked. I'm 200+ lbs, but it's a big difference.

    Granted mine is Ti, and expensive. However I'm positive that the Aluminum version would have the exact ride characteristics. Based on that, the Value rating on this bike is 5 chili's. NO question it's the best thing going for the money right now.

    If you need/want a different geometry, the custom Ti work is tremendous.

    Three years ago I considered building a custom Motolite. Since that time I went through 2 other frames that were great, but I should have just sucked it up and done this 3 years ago."


    Must have even bothered to use spell check.

    Thanks for more disinformation, La_buzz.

  17. #17
    Ti is addictive
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    Oh geez, here we go with Le Buzz's conspiracy theories again.......First you conjored up a story about Titus and get your words handed back to you, then you take on one of the most reputable online dealers in MTBR........All in the sake of wanting to be the paladin of MTBR.....just buy your epiphany and stay in the Ellsworth forum.......Over on the Titus board we tried to give you good info and then you showed your true colors Le Troll. Then you try to slam a guy who has done more for cycling and riders then most MTBR members could ever dream......What stirs in your mind????? I don't even buy from Bob, yet I feel the need to defend him.

    Take every review on MTBR with a grain of salt......A homer will never write a bad review about his bike, even though he dreams of being on an Ellsworth. Fact is most of the reviews are usually by people who did a test ride for 30 minutes.....does this make for a good review????? Buy with your own decision making process and take reviews with a tongue in cheek attitude, and look at the manufacturers real reputation (not fabricate stuff in your own mind).
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  18. #18
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    Lobbying for positive reviews on a given product with the offering of swag. Is the equevilent of special intrest groups lobbying for a voteby offering money. Not even cool.

    I've never been on the Titus forum, nor riden one of thier bikes. Can't say as I really care to try either as well.

    Bike companies, dealers, LBS's should be very careful posting in forums. I personally try not to spend my money on biased salesman opinions.

  19. #19
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    Lobbyist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll
    Lobbying for positive reviews on a given product with the offering of swag. Is the equevilent of special intrest groups lobbying for a voteby offering money. Not even cool.

    I've never been on the Titus forum, nor riden one of thier bikes. Can't say as I really care to try either as well.

    Bike companies, dealers, LBS's should be very careful posting in forums. I personally try not to spend my money on biased salesman opinions.
    I feel like the Jack Abramoff of MTBR.com.
    So you wouldn't write a review in exchange for a pair of socks? Honorable.
    How about for a new frame, or perhaps a WRX?
    What would it take to get you to try a Titus SuperMoto or El Guapo? Name your price.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    I feel like the Jack Abramoff of MTBR.com.
    So you wouldn't write a review in exchange for a pair of socks? Honorable.
    How about for a new frame, or perhaps a WRX?
    What would it take to get you to try a Titus SuperMoto or El Guapo? Name your price.
    I already own an 03 Sonic yellow WRX Great car BTW.

    Was'nt trying to harp on ya in any way Biker.

    How about you offer a high end fork to the first five who post a negative review on Titus to level the playing field?

  21. #21
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    Special interests

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Troll
    I already own an 03 Sonic yellow WRX Great car BTW.

    Was'nt trying to harp on ya in any way Biker.

    How about you offer a high end fork to the first five who post a negative review on Titus to level the playing field?
    Felt a little like harping.

    High end fork for negative review? Sounds like a good idea. Maybe just one or two, though.

    You know Subaru (partly owned by GM) supports IMBA (special interest group who lobbies Congress). Bikes Belong, League Of American Wheelman, Sierra Club, Environmental Defense Fund, Defenders of Wilderness are all special interest groups (whom I support).
    IMBA gives out socks, too, to get your membership money. Must be were I got the idea in the first place.

    I have a bright yellow Mazda Protege 5 wagon. I still wave at yellow cars. Do you get many speeding violations?
    Wife has the Saabaru 92X wagon.

  22. #22
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    Not to derail this thread but I ended up buying a Forester after a lot of test drives and the usual research.

    Anyway, I figured I'd keep this Subaru for a while but I'm afraid they are going to come out with a new Outback or Forester and the temptation to trade up will be too much. I'd probably check out the Outback this time if it's a bit roomier at the back. The main thing is that my dog needs to be able to stand up without crouching.

    A hybrid Subaru engine that gets 30 mpg and 200 plus hp in a 4 cyclinder will be sweet. I think Totota has just bought a stake in Fuji Heavy Industries (Fuji makes Subarus) to be in some sort of partnership in the hybrid engine space. I think that makes Toyota the biggest shareholder of Fuji (GM is out). An Indiana Subaru plant is also being used or will be used to make the Camry. Interesting how Toyota is cuddling up to Fuji/Subaru. Let's hope they don't try to assimilate Subaru too much.

    Anyway, here's to no cool new Subarus anytime soon.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    I feel like the Jack Abramoff of MTBR.com.
    So you wouldn't write a review in exchange for a pair of socks? Honorable.
    I think this has been blown out of proportion, but at the same time I think it was wrong of you to offer socks for positive reviews, which is the way your offer was originally posted. You're allowed to defend yourself, especially since you're being unfairly vilified by someone who may have an agenda, but don't respond as if you did nothing wrong.

    Ant
    Last edited by antonio; 01-07-2007 at 02:44 PM.

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    Seeing how this is called Mountain Bike Review, which is a CONSUMER REVIEW forum. How about all recent reviews of Titus are either deleted or a note posted at the top of each review stating "This biased review was bought and payed for with socks". Consumers have a right to know.

  25. #25
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    Give me a ******* break!

    I woke up New Year's Day and wanted to give away some free schwag. So I posted my offer. I have a over 2 dozen very happy Motoltie customers who love their bikes and needed an incentive to get their reviews up.
    I added the word "positive" at the last moment to avoid giving the socks to trolls like Labuzz and MojoTroll who don't even know what a Motolite looks like and would write crap just to get the socks.
    I removed the word "positive" as soon as I could, after a major Turner fan (who must be stalking me in that he responded so quickly) made mention of it an hour later.

    Once again, if you think people will change their opinion of their bike to get some socks, you should reconsider. What are you willing to do for some free socks?
    And 5 more good reviews, on top of 45 other similar good reviews is not an anomaly.

    So focus your outrage elsewhere and go maintain a trail or take a kid biking.

  26. #26
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    Poor Bob had no bad intentions here so maybe we should let it go. I think he gets the point some of us made. He's a well-like guy in the Titus forum and goes out of his way to help. No, I was not given any socks by him though I sometimes do cruise by the Titus forum to make sure they are still awake over there.

    Speaking of socks- Darn Tough makes THE BEST socks ever. Not the cheapest since they are high-quality Merino and Merino-Coolmax combos made in Vermont but man, are they well made!

    I ordered some Craft, Pearl Izumi, and Smartwool ones on sale and one pair of Darn Tough. The Darn Tough blows the others away. If they ever go on sale, I'm buying a bunch.

  27. #27
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    Good point, Flyer. it's really not that deep.

    Ant

  28. #28
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    is bikerbob the same guy who has that cannondale superV and does front flips?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    So focus your outrage elsewhere and go maintain a trail or take a kid biking.
    Dude that was so tacky it is'nt even funny. You have'nt a clue.

    Would a moderator please remind BikerBob here that this is a consumer review site and not a place to lobby for positive reviews.

  30. #30
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    I removed the word "positive" as soon as I could, after a major Turner fan (who must be stalking me in that he responded so quickly) made mention of it an hour later.
    Man, my stalking skills are slipping. It's taken me TWO hours this time.

    Don't be paranoid, Bob.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by misctwo
    agree. the 'chili ratings' here are so tainted with non-owner/knucklehead reviews that I don't give them much credit at all. The descriptions/strengths/weaknesses is still helpful though.

    it doesn't mean much when one person gives 5 stars and suddenly another gives 1 star, averaging 2.5 stars.

    i don't own a titus. but i'm a man-whore, and if i saw that thread i would have posted a positive review for a pair of socks!
    And that right there is all that needed to be said.


  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    La_Buzz, can you not say something without being offensive?

    Your quote:

    "Just an observation after reading
    through some of the thread topics here
    recently:
    Whats up with all the name calling ?"

    Or your comments about MTBR's administrators:

    "Now they dont even have that, and my
    opinion of them now is in adding this forum they were just trolling for advertising
    dollars. Scumbags."

    Or:

    "Yes, I realized later that I made a couple of strongly worded statements based on
    assumptions that may or may not be correct. I even thought about editing those out
    as they could get me in trouble with the site administrators, but I had already logged off
    and didnt feel like going through the hassle"

    Or:

    "Oops, here I go making strongly worded statements again, so I will leave this forum
    to the aforementioned folks."

    Or:

    "Could I somehow be contributing to the
    spread of WMD's by buying a Titus ? Dont think I'd want to be a part of that.
    Could it be that Titus getting broken into was a little bit of karmic payback perhaps ?"

    Or:

    " I'm getting the feeling that if could be a fly on the wall in the Viatek board room and got to hear everything, I would probably rather not buy a bike from them. Its too bad, but it seems like the more I find out about this company the less I like it."

    Or:

    "Do you think these guys
    really cared that much about bikes, or was their primary concern wresling control of a
    profitable company. I'm not sure what it is, but something stinks about this.
    I know Titus has gone corporate, but still."

    Or:

    "But you'd hate to get a Titus, and then have something come out down the
    road about the company that really makes you cringe. That a chance you take with
    a new company that doesnt have a solid reputation yet."

    Or:

    "I agreed with Warp's post that that comment about WMD's was speculative, and
    that I should not impune Titus for something the new CEO did over 20
    years ago. I did not mean to inflame Titus stalwarts passions with that comment.
    Maybe I should have censored myself before posting that"

    Or your comments about me:

    "I find some of your
    business practices borderline unethical. Maybe I should say salesman practices"

    Or more about me:

    "Not good in my opinion, maybe even a little sleazy"

    Or:

    "Thats just plain outright republican sleeeezy smelly, man !"

    Advice to Labuzz. Maybe you need to take a look at what you're saying. Mean spirited and misinformed at the same time-sort of like Bill O'Reilly.

    As for my politics, I'm somewhere between Naom Chomsky and Michael Moore.

    As for my business practices, for the past 10 years I have operated a small mountain bike- only shop in a state park. It's right beside the trails that a core group of us build and maintain. It's a unique mt. bike culture and many people got their first offroad experience and bike here.
    The shop is totally solar-powered, is full of mt bikes and trail work tools, and dirt on the floor. Not exactly a Republican stronghold. Air America is on the radio, bike tools and stands are available for free to anyone who needs them, IMBA socks and memberships offered, and our trail crew is always willing to show a newbie the coolest trails.
    I try to hook up whoever I can, do repairs for free when I can, and show people how to fix their own bikes. Meanwhile, I have to support my lifestyle by selling a few nice bikes. I think I make it possible for more people to get their dream bike with my "business practices" Geneorus trade-ins, running tabs for locals, or barter.

    If you bought your bike from a shop like mine, congratulations. If you get your hands on a Titus, better yet. Notice how my Racer X (with carbom stays) is fully capable of pulling a Bob trailer. Plus, IMBA Trail Care Crew visit to my shop and home.

    (I apologize in advance for the blatant Subaru ad in the photos. Hear that, IMBA, you corporate whores!)

    Meanwhile, take your conspiracy theories elsewhere. And edit your thoughts before you post or resort to name calling.

    Bikerbob
    Allright BB, consider this an edit of my previous negative comments.
    I found what you did distasteful, thats all. You might be a very good person to buy
    a Motolite from for all I know, I just found that particular thing distasteful, and you
    changed it. Theres nothing wrong I suppose, for asking for more ML reviews, but
    doing it under the guise that they should be positive I thought cheapens the value of the
    reviews section on this website. Enuf said about that.

    As far as your extensive research into every other negative comment I've posted here
    I'm going to introduce some context for the benefit of anyone who cares. This :

    "Now they dont even have that, and my
    opinion of them now is in adding this forum they were just trolling for advertising
    dollars. Scumbags."

    was part of a rant I did in the heat of the moment when francois deleted a thread
    critical of the new 'Car and Biker forum'. In retrospect that was probably something
    I shouldn't have said, as there was no evidence that was what they were doing.
    My opinion now is that they just wanted to add another forum, and this was one
    they thought of. I still dont think that subject is worthy of a forum, but thats another
    thread.

    My comments about Titus - WMD's were mostly tongue and cheek, but I didnt provide
    the proper context, so people got the impression that I really thought that there could be
    a Titus - WMD connection, which would be a silly statement, so I'll own up to that and
    make a formal retraction of any misconceptions anyone may have gotten from those comments.
    I still believe the current ownership of Titus wrestled the company from Chris C.
    Thats my only beef with Titus the company. Chris C. himself alluded to this when he
    said he didnt want to be an employee at his own company, but perhaps this is partially
    his fault for allowing his company to be merged with a composite company that makes
    golf clubs. My personal belief is that this says something about the character of the company, but since were not privy to exactly how things transpired, maybe this is unfair also. One can only speculate and come to their own conclusions.
    I've never said anything negative about the bikes themselves. I dont
    believe it would be fair to make any comments like that without having gone on a real
    ride on one of them.

    As for your comment:

    "As for my politics, I'm somewhere between Naom Chomsky and Michael Moore."

    Thats very surprising given that you live in a very conservative part of Ohio, but I will
    give you the benefit of the doubt of that. I sincerely would much rather see a small
    company like you do well( I bought my bike from a small LBS)
    than a company like Performance, regardless of your personal politics.
    Cheers, and good luck in the new year !

  33. #33
    Too busy to talk
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    I've decided to join MTBR just because you get bare knuckle fights like this thread breaking out all over the forum about any subject you care to imagine. It's not really about the bikes or the trails, just people firing up for the hell of it.

    Titus and WMD's? Almost as funny as the thread by the newbie who asked about the Mongoose XR 850 ...sixty-six posts later it finally dawned on people that the OP had been blown off and that people were just playing true to MTBR form - landing blows for the sake of it and for no real reason other than to hurt their fellow forum members.

    Gotta say, makes me laugh and sure beats anything on TV

    -----

    Nothing beats raising the old rusted dead threads.

  34. #34
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
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    My Sledgehammer POS rocks; it is the best machine I've ever ridden. I'm glad I spent the extra $$$$$$.........5 Flaming chilies!!!!!

    Yeah, right.

    Like anything here you just have to look at the details and not the ranting/raving. A large number of posts is really helpful. Looking at multiple posts often reveal trends.
    I don't rattle.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
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    Why isn't the number 11 pronounced onety-one?

  36. #36
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    Yeah, you're right Berkeley Mike, if you can peer long enough through the fog of war the trends do become apparent and the information contained herein is very helpful.

    I've been doing pre-purchase research on 29er hardtails and time and time again I find myself coming back to MTBR to learn more. MTBR is my 'go-to' place on the net for any information and having all the differing opinions really helps. That's the reason I am on this thread actually; there was a Titus offered for sale in the classified section here recently and I wanted to know more about what people thought... and somehow, after all the punches thrown I feel slightly more informed.

    So rather than just lurk on MTBR soaking up all the info, thought I'd join and partake of the fun. So thanks for the warm welcome guys, it's very much appreciated

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