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  1. #1
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    6" Rear travel under 30lb's

    I have started the search for the perfect replacement bike. Trying to get 6" front and rear and still be under 30lbs.

    Riding is mixture of everything except DHR, so must be able to climb and handle epic days as well as some good freeride fun.

    Fork is most likely going to be Maverick DUC 32 as its an awesme fork, plush, 6" and only 3.5lbs.

    So looking for frame options now, Ellsworth Moment is one weighing in at 6.9lbs for the large frame.

    What other options are there that have the 6" rear end without adding an extra 2-3lbs.

  2. #2
    stay thirsty, my friends
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    Yeti 575 has just about 6" (5.75"). Look into that.
    "With that said, until you have done a STR group ride- YOU HAVE NOT LIVED!"
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  3. #3
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    Heckler

    3078 Grams = 6.78583 Pounds

    While technically it's 5", it's very much worth a look IMHO.

    Here's a page for you.

    Dropped the pic in as I think this is a Maverick fork?

    Jim

  4. #4
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    Foes FXR

    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    I have started the search for the perfect replacement bike. Trying to get 6" front and rear and still be under 30lbs.

    Riding is mixture of everything except DHR, so must be able to climb and handle epic days as well as some good freeride fun.

    Fork is most likely going to be Maverick DUC 32 as its an awesme fork, plush, 6" and only 3.5lbs.

    So looking for frame options now, Ellsworth Moment is one weighing in at 6.9lbs for the large frame.

    What other options are there that have the 6" rear end without adding an extra 2-3lbs.
    Look at a Foes FXR. 5.75 rear wheel travel. Mine is 29 lbs with Talas fork, Sram 9.0, Avid juicys, King/819s wheelset. A friend of mine has a Yeti 575 and it's very nice, plus a lighter frame than my FXR. If you're doing much freeriding/hucking it might not be the best choice. The FXR is built a little beefier. Also look at a Ventana X5. They can be configured with different rocker/shock combo's to have 5, 5.4 or 6" travel and are a sweet looking bike.

    If you're looking at a Moment then you are willing to pay the price for any of the high end frames. Personally I wouldn't buy an Ellsworth just because of all the horror stories. That being said I do like the look of the Moment.

  5. #5
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    from what I "think" I heard over on the Ellsworth forum, the Moment is closer to 8lbs, definitely not a 6.9lb frame...that may be the "without shock" weight.

    The lightest almost 6" bike will be the Yeti 575...this frame is basically the weight of a typical XC frame. Awesome bike.

    As somebody else noted, the FXR may be the perfect bike. This sucker is robust enough for the bigger hits. Of course you will pay a weight penalty (compared to the Yeti) but it comes with a benefit....I know, this becomes a tough decision...I went through it recently.

    I can recall the weight but the new Turner 6 pack is aweseome. I am sure this frame too is about 8 lbs but others can correct me or simply check out turnerbikes for specs.

    Also, the new Titus Motolite (I think a 5" / 6") bike would be awesome. You can never go wrong with Titus and this bike is probably at a very good weight for your target.

    My bike weighs about 30lbs. I have a Ventana X-5 with 6" rockers but use the 7.875x2 Romic so I really only get 5.32" of travel. I do this because the head angle is perfect and the bottom bracket is the perfect height. I use the new Marz All Mountain 1 fork up front which switched between 5" and 6" travel for the best of all worlds. This is my dreambike and could not imagine a sweeter ride, but that is just me.

    Definitely check out the threads in the Ellsworth forum....there are a lot of great posts regarding the Moment.

    Keep us posted.

    Cheers

  6. #6
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    second the 575

    frame weight is 6.2 i think...mine is about 29 lbs with big heavy tires...lots of options for a fork but have heard nice stuff about the new fox 36...love my bike, best thing i have ever ridden, up and down...
    BBZ

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  7. #7
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    I have built up a few...

    2 different Giant AC's, 1 6" one 6.3" rear. The 03" 6.3" rear was built with a DUC 32, it weighs 28.5 lbs with real tires.
    Turner 5 spot with DUC, 29 lbs with coilover!
    Giant VT with Talus, 29 lbs. 5.7" travel.
    All of these assume complete and total replacement of parts with top shelf.

  8. #8
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    sub 30 is pretty light for an aggressive bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    I have started the search for the perfect replacement bike. Trying to get 6" front and rear and still be under 30lbs.

    Riding is mixture of everything except DHR, so must be able to climb and handle epic days as well as some good freeride fun.

    Fork is most likely going to be Maverick DUC 32 as its an awesme fork, plush, 6" and only 3.5lbs.

    So looking for frame options now, Ellsworth Moment is one weighing in at 6.9lbs for the large frame.

    What other options are there that have the 6" rear end without adding an extra 2-3lbs.
    If you are running a lightweight fork, there is actually quite a few options available to keep a 6" bike just under or close to 30lbs. With that said, it is not that easy building a sub-30lb bike that can handle the rigors of what you describe.ie freeriding on the side. I think it would be more realistic to try and keep your bike under 34-35lbs if you are going to be riding very aggressively. The Maverick is a trail fork that is very light and plush, but I have heard of durability problems with it when riders push the envelope by freeriding with it. If you dont go too big and keep the hits down in the 4-5ft range then you should be able to use the Maverick without a problem. Also, you may want to consider having two wheel sets if you really want to keep weight under 30lbs.

    Skinny tires and light rims will cut weight, but have limitations for aggressive trail riding with lots of rocks and roots, and are pretty much useless for freeriding. Riding style and rider weight and what you consider to be aggressive/freeride will also determine how light you can build your bike. Here is a quick list of bikes.

    Foes FXR
    Intense 5.5
    The yeti 575
    Ellsworth Moment and Id
    Marin tara series
    Azonic Saber, not a really light frame, but with lighter components the weight is not huge.
    The new Enduro comes with a 6" air shock. I dont know if you can get the Enduro as a frame only. The complete weight is supposed to be around 32lbs but can be made lighter.


    The Heckler is another option that can be built right around that 30lb mark. The new Hecklers with the DHX and longer stroke 5th get 5.6" of rear travel.
    Last edited by ronny; 11-20-2004 at 05:26 PM.

  9. #9
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    Ventana X5 vote

    I'm biased because I have one, but I have one because I think they are the best!
    Also warranted for use with dual crown forks. They are light (sub 30 lbs) and very very strong.
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  10. #10
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Add the Oryx spitfire (think Giant made rebaged AC) to that list. 6" rear travel, 7.6 Ibs frame weight (16.5", coil shock). My Oryx Hurricane (5" rear travel) frame weighs the same (20.5", Fox Float shock), and built as an all-mountain setup its 27.5 Ibs.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  11. #11
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    x-5

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    from what I "think" I heard over on the Ellsworth forum, the Moment is closer to 8lbs, definitely not a 6.9lb frame...that may be the "without shock" weight.

    The lightest almost 6" bike will be the Yeti 575...this frame is basically the weight of a typical XC frame. Awesome bike.

    As somebody else noted, the FXR may be the perfect bike. This sucker is robust enough for the bigger hits. Of course you will pay a weight penalty (compared to the Yeti) but it comes with a benefit....I know, this becomes a tough decision...I went through it recently.

    I can recall the weight but the new Turner 6 pack is aweseome. I am sure this frame too is about 8 lbs but others can correct me or simply check out turnerbikes for specs.

    Also, the new Titus Motolite (I think a 5" / 6") bike would be awesome. You can never go wrong with Titus and this bike is probably at a very good weight for your target.

    My bike weighs about 30lbs. I have a Ventana X-5 with 6" rockers but use the 7.875x2 Romic so I really only get 5.32" of travel. I do this because the head angle is perfect and the bottom bracket is the perfect height. I use the new Marz All Mountain 1 fork up front which switched between 5" and 6" travel for the best of all worlds. This is my dreambike and could not imagine a sweeter ride, but that is just me.

    Definitely check out the threads in the Ellsworth forum....there are a lot of great posts regarding the Moment.

    Keep us posted.

    Cheers
    You got a picture of your bike, it is blue correct? I am thinking of the blue with the zoke am-1. Thanks oh yeah the moment is near 8 with coil, I do not remember exacts but moves to 5.25 inches of travel with air shock as does the Id.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
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    A 6-pack will be about 8.4lb with a romic. An air shock will drop it by most of a pound but will still keep your 6" of travel.

    My Turner (prototype which is very similar to the 6 pack) was weighing 32lb with 6" plates, romic and a 5lb fork (stretched Xvert DC). My parts mix wasn't topshelf, just a mix of XC and trail parts (8" hayes, riser bars, truvativ cranks, mavic 519 (now 719) rims etc).

    So with a smattering of higher end parts and that maverick, you've got room for an 8lb frame while staying under your 30lb target.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  13. #13
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    After reading the Moment discussions I am a little worried now. I'm in New Zealand and the last thing I want is trouble with warrenty claims. There isn't many Ellsworths in NZ so maybe its not worth the risk.... glad I got the tip to look at the thread, thanks.

    I'm not an extreme freeride guy but I like to mix up my riding and have down on the descents as well as be first to the top of the hill on a good day....

    I also like to ride something different to the norm and custom built kit to try and ge the best combinations out there for me.

    I do like the look of the Ventana X-5, Turners are nice as well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    After reading the Moment discussions I am a little worried now. I'm in New Zealand and the last thing I want is trouble with warrenty claims. There isn't many Ellsworths in NZ so maybe its not worth the risk.... glad I got the tip to look at the thread, thanks.

    I'm not an extreme freeride guy but I like to mix up my riding and have down on the descents as well as be first to the top of the hill on a good day....

    I also like to ride something different to the norm and custom built kit to try and ge the best combinations out there for me.

    I do like the look of the Ventana X-5, Turners are nice as well.
    Not sure what the customs shipping considerations are from US to NZ, but I can tell you that Larry Mettler at mtnhighcylery.com is the best in the world to deal with (because of course I have ordered from everybody in the world ). Seriously though, I know some Aussies order from Larry regularly (eg, Bike_freak on this forum and I think even Trevor!, one of the moderators) so you should email them to get the real scoop on ordering from Larry.

    Although I now hate the UKtrailmonster, because of course his X-5 is much prettier than I think mine will every be , I agree with him that the X-5 is "the" bike. I tested ALL possible bikes before buying it. I absolutely love it more (did not think I could) with the 6" rockers. The only thing I think that could even make it better is to replace the Romic shock with the Fox DHX 5.0. I never thought I could say this but it is the dreambike for me. However, I do not really like too slack of a head angle, which is actually one of the reasons I went with the X-5 (since I climb as much on this as on a full on XC bike). I think the stock baseline head angle of 70 is perfect for my riding. However, I believe it changes for 2005 to be 69 which seems to be the target number for this group of bikes. Having said that, I now also run a Marz fork (longer than the Fox so that slackens it) and since it runs in 6" for downhills, but I have lost nothing on the climbs and have gained on the downhill which is even better of course.

    Anyway, talk to Larry to get advice from somebody who sells and has ridden them all.

    Cheers
    Last edited by FoShizzle; 11-21-2004 at 07:25 AM.

  15. #15
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    you show-off!!! I think my bike just saw this picture and now has erectile dysfunction. Man.....it looks like my bike except I think every single part is upgraded by one notch.

    I think the only thing I have on you is that I can ride every single day of the year however, it is pretty cold out here right now....it actually is getting below room-temperature in the morning .

    Cheers

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    you show-off!!! I think my bike just saw this picture and now has erectile dysfunction. Man.....it looks like my bike except I think every single part is upgraded by one notch.

    I think the only thing I have on you is that I can ride every single day of the year however, it is pretty cold out here right now....it actually is getting below room-temperature in the morning .

    Cheers
    Don't worry Shizzle, that one isn't mine. I just stole the pic off another thread to show you can fit the Mav fork. This is my pride and joy
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  17. #17
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    Very nice!!

    I would post a picture of mine except I am the only one in America without a digital camera.

    I thought i remembered you having the Pike. I too would have gone with the Pike, except I was content with the wheelset I already had (standard axle) and got a great deal on my fork. Plus, I am putting money right now into a XC bike as well.....of course a bike I dont need but it is fun nontheless.

    Cheers

  18. #18
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    2nd the FXR

    The FXR is a well built frame with a great shock, and it handles well. The Currnutt shock is a little porky even with the TI spring but the weight is worth it. Mine is built up around 31lbs, but could be build a pound or two lighter with different tires, cranks, and stem.

    I've also heard good things about the Yeti 575 as already mentioned. I test rode a Turner 5-spot which was a really close call between the Foes and Turner.

    Most of the bikes at this level are going to handle very well. For me, after bike performance the deciding factors were fit, frame geometry, and simply which bike called my name the most (the look is not the first thing to consider, but it was the tie breaker in my case... I just always like the Foes look)

    Heres a link with more pics and build specs if your interested.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=62079
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    After reading the Moment discussions I am a little worried now. I'm in New Zealand and the last thing I want is trouble with warrenty claims. There isn't many Ellsworths in NZ so maybe its not worth the risk.... glad I got the tip to look at the thread, thanks.

    I'm not an extreme freeride guy but I like to mix up my riding and have down on the descents as well as be first to the top of the hill on a good day....

    I also like to ride something different to the norm and custom built kit to try and ge the best combinations out there for me.

    I do like the look of the Ventana X-5, Turners are nice as well.
    There is no Ellsworth dealer in NZ, the closest are DirtWorks in Sydney. Turner deals through Bill Dengate at DHdirect.com.au for this part of the world.
    Anything you want to import will cost you another 12.5% GST at the border. It's pretty hard to argue with customs when they have your bike.

    *edit* Just found out that Ydopen are the new New Zealand distrubitors for Turner. */edit*
    Last edited by Dougal; 11-21-2004 at 09:41 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Giant Reign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    I have started the search for the perfect replacement bike. Trying to get 6" front and rear and still be under 30lbs.

    Riding is mixture of everything except DHR, so must be able to climb and handle epic days as well as some good freeride fun.

    Fork is most likely going to be Maverick DUC 32 as its an awesme fork, plush, 6" and only 3.5lbs.

    So looking for frame options now, Ellsworth Moment is one weighing in at 6.9lbs for the large frame.

    What other options are there that have the 6" rear end without adding an extra 2-3lbs.
    If you're looking for a 6" F&R travel trailbike, you might consider the new Giant Maestro Reign line. No one knows what they will weigh in at since no production bikes exist yet. But the word is they will be at or under 30lbs. They will be available very very soon. I'm not sure if they can handle freeriding though. I think they are more along the lines of a trailbike like the Yeti 575.

  21. #21
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    Hmmm lots of options, although there seems to be one front runner, the Ventana X-5 is looking good.

    I like the full seat tube and have always had concerns with the shock being fouled by the seat post, this could well be unfounded these days but it leads from a bad experience way back...

    I like to ride something a little different as well so the Ventana would be be right up there when it comes to that. It seems to have lots of flexability in the rear travel options and it just seems to really hit my buttons.

    I do like the look still of the Moment and also the 6-Pack, just worried about the warranty and service with Ellsworth and Turner is a heavy little sucker, although they do seem to be quite the shizzle.

    A decision will have to be made soon I guess or there will be news models of everything and I will have to start all over again...

  22. #22
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    Yes, it is blue. I actually do not own a digital camera but will be getting a disposable digital camera today to take pictures (cant afford a real one since all my money goes to bike stuff ).

    I also have the red romic coil so it would not be considered a matching bike for sure. However, I love the way it looks.....to me, a trailbike should not be concerned with matching. Lots of people have commented at how cool (and different it looks). I leave the matching for my XC bike I am building.

    The fork works awesome though. I have zero regrets.

    Cheers

  23. #23
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    your reasons are exactly what led me to the X-5. I loved the Foes but I prefer the full seat tube....the Foes and X-5 (not sure of the order) will be the stiffest which was important to me.

  24. #24
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    You have around 3-4 inches of seat post adjustment before hitting the shock with the Foes. I rarely drop or raise mine more than an inch so its not a problem in my case.

    However, if you move your seat post often, the interupted seat tube may not be the way to go.

    The X-5 is also a great frame. It was on my short list, but I did not find one to test ride and felt comfortable that I would be happy with the Turner or Foes.

  25. #25
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    second the X-5

    I dont have a lot of comparison experience on newer FS bikes, but will throw in another $.02 on the X-5. Mine is at about 29.5 lbs with a DUC 32, romic w/ ti spring, even a rohloff speedhub, Mavic 819's, Schwalbe Big Jim 2.25's, and some expensive lightweight stuff. Admittedly, my cockpit components are pretty light (like me), but sub-30 lbs is definitely not a problem with the X-5, especially if you go with air over coil in the rear.

  26. #26
    Bodhisattva
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    The above posts are pretty much spot-on.
    I don't think you'll get a true 6" sub 30 lbs but you can do it with the X5, 5-spot, 575, Titus Motlite and probably the Titus Switchblade as well.

    Clarification on a few points:
    1. Over on the Ells board, folks are consistently weighing the medium Moment with DHX shock at 8.1 lbs
    2. Turner claims the 6-Pack will be 8.8 lbs with a DHX and their weights have always been accurate in the past.

    It'd be darned near impossible to build either bike below 30# with the DHX shock and a true 6" fork.

  27. #27
    not so super...
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    The above posts are pretty much spot-on.
    I don't think you'll get a true 6" sub 30 lbs but you can do it with the X5, 5-spot, 575, Titus Motlite and probably the Titus Switchblade as well.

    Clarification on a few points:
    1. Over on the Ells board, folks are consistently weighing the medium Moment with DHX shock at 8.1 lbs
    2. Turner claims the 6-Pack will be 8.8 lbs with a DHX and their weights have always been accurate in the past.

    It'd be darned near impossible to build either bike below 30# with the DHX shock and a true 6" fork.
    Not impossible but expensive for sure. It would not macth the intended application of the frame. Why have a 6" travel frame and fork that is as fragile as a 4" xc racer? I could get my Moment from the current 32 to 30 by using a Maverick fork, lighter xc type rims, smaller tires, Ti spring, foam grips, lighter disc brakes and on and on. You get the idea.

    Forget about weight and just build it to ride well and be reliable.

  28. #28
    Bodhisattva
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    Agreed. Not impossible, but pointless. That's my implication.

    Although it'll be close with a Fox 36 up front, a resonable wheelset (I'm thinking Syncros 25 with King), XT or XTR components or comparable SRAM, Thomson/Thomson, King headset, etc.....
    No foam grips, carbon cranks, Ti BB here...

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Very nice!!

    I would post a picture of mine except I am the only one in America without a digital camera.

    I thought i remembered you having the Pike. I too would have gone with the Pike, except I was content with the wheelset I already had (standard axle) and got a great deal on my fork. Plus, I am putting money right now into a XC bike as well.....of course a bike I dont need but it is fun nontheless.

    Cheers
    Thanks. It was a close call for me between the Pike and AM1 you're running. I went with the Pike in the end because they are great value in the UK and I like the 20 mm axle and wide travel adjust range. Since I was buying a new wheelset anyway it was no problem for me.

  30. #30
    not so super...
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Agreed. Not impossible, but pointless. That's my implication.

    Although it'll be close with a Fox 36 up front, a resonable wheelset (I'm thinking Syncros 25 with King), XT or XTR components or comparable SRAM, Thomson/Thomson, King headset, etc.....
    No foam grips, carbon cranks, Ti BB here...
    Whats the Specs on the Syncros 25?

    I have a lot of the light weight parts also - King HS & hubs, XT/Sram X.0 drivetrain, WTB Ti railed saddle, Thomson/Thomson, Fox Vanilla - but then add items like 646 DH pedals, 2.5 kenda tires, thicker tubes, XM321 rims and the weight piles up. Go light where it does not sacrifice durability when you are building a 6" travel bike.

  31. #31
    Bodhisattva
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    Syncros 25 is 25mm wide and weight varies but is generally around 505gm. Nice rim.
    The 28 is 28mm wide and weighs around 540.

    Again, I agree. Save weight in non-critical areas and don't skimp on the important stuff.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    Hmmm lots of options, although there seems to be one front runner, the Ventana X-5 is looking good.

    I like the full seat tube and have always had concerns with the shock being fouled by the seat post, this could well be unfounded these days but it leads from a bad experience way back...

    I like to ride something a little different as well so the Ventana would be be right up there when it comes to that. It seems to have lots of flexability in the rear travel options and it just seems to really hit my buttons.

    I do like the look still of the Moment and also the 6-Pack, just worried about the warranty and service with Ellsworth and Turner is a heavy little sucker, although they do seem to be quite the shizzle.

    A decision will have to be made soon I guess or there will be news models of everything and I will have to start all over again...

    Whereabouts in NZ are you? If you're down south then you could try a ride on my Turner. So far it's made everyone drool no matter what their affiliations.

    I think you should just suck it up and buy a 6-pack, if you don't mind no warranty then a 5-spot with 6" rockers will be over a pound lighter. The ventana is going to have exactly the same pedalling and braking behaviour as a giant AC. Sure it'll be stiffer but I've found that's not the giant killer it's supposed to be.
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  33. #33
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    Under 28 is very possible

    Quote Originally Posted by LBguy
    Yeti 575 has just about 6" (5.75"). Look into that.
    It is very possible with a sub-7 pounds frame like the Yeti.

    I ride a 5-spot which is at 25.3 pounds with a Vanilla fork (4 pounds) and 6.80 frame (Romic Titanium and Titanium pivots/bolts), Schwalbe King/Big Jimmy and solid components

    Add 1 pound for a Marz all-mountain, 1 pound for disk brakes + 1 pound of other stronger bits subtract 0,4 for the lighter Yeti frame and ... voila': sub-28 6" (and some change)

    PS the Maverick is not 3.5 pounds: the whole enchilada (production weight and hub) is 4.0+, still very light ...
    Last edited by Davide; 11-23-2004 at 11:17 AM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Syncros 25 is 25mm wide and weight varies but is generally around 505gm. Nice rim.
    The 28 is 28mm wide and weighs around 540.

    Again, I agree. Save weight in non-critical areas and don't skimp on the important stuff.
    Thanks SW - I'm guessing that Larry carries the Syncros? I like the line under your handle - I must be making his mortgage payment then!

  35. #35
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    How about a Whyte 46? 6" either end, Mav fork, exclusive in the US (I imagine!), around 28lbs.

  36. #36
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    Yup. They're down at the shop. Both the 25 & 28. Good looking rims and he says they built up stiff & strong. We weighed several the other day.
    You're the second to notice my tag line. Not sure if Larry has seen it yet.....

  37. #37
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    What about the Maverick ML8?

    Supposed to be 6.5" rear at approx 6.5# frame. The Maverick for is 3.48# not including hub. The hub is 250grams which is very similar to most hubs when you add in the quick release weight. Remember the QR is on the fork itself.

    I'm not sure about the ride, but have seen some in Boulder and they look great. I would love to hear comments about how they ride.
    just ride

  38. #38
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    Marin Attack Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    I have started the search for the perfect replacement bike. Trying to get 6" front and rear and still be under 30lbs.

    Riding is mixture of everything except DHR, so must be able to climb and handle epic days as well as some good freeride fun.

    Fork is most likely going to be Maverick DUC 32 as its an awesme fork, plush, 6" and only 3.5lbs.

    So looking for frame options now, Ellsworth Moment is one weighing in at 6.9lbs for the large frame.

    What other options are there that have the 6" rear end without adding an extra 2-3lbs.
    No platform shock compromise required unlike nearly all other bikes with over 4 inch travel. RP3 is stock, but Marin factory insider says DHX is even better for superb tuning of a coil ride (but not warranted due to bottom out risk with wrong spring), but better stick with air for your DUC fork to match feel and rate better, and 2 pounds less, to 27 lbs easy. Adjustable trailside in 3 seconds infinitely from 4 - 6 inch travel for even more efficient long climbs and for handling tweaks. Does the DUC adjust 2 inches trailside or on the fly? if not get a fork that does unless you don't climb. Jon Whyte design, truly a championship F1 design perspective, not hype. The Attack Trail frame is built to slam it's travel.

    If there is a new Dave Wegal D-W Link 6 inch design for Iron Horse it would be better performing than any other besides the Whyte/Marin Attack Trail design. Dave knows what makes a fully work right without platform shock compromises.

    The Giant Maestro sounds promising, being close to a D-W Link design.

    The Intense EPV 5.5 is an amazing XC ride, but not a freeride bike, also no platform damping required.

    The Talas/Talas Switchblade is the best of the classics adapted for longer travel, but a bit light weight for freeride slamming.

    The new Specialized Enduro with 6 inch travel should be very adjustable, adaptable and durable, needing platform damping for good pedaling. And potentially better handling than a Moment.

    The Yeti 575 would keep it simple and light, but it's not a freeride slammer. A Santa Cruz Heckler or Ventana X5 or El Salamontes, or a Foes 6 incher would pedal about as well and hold up to freeride much better. The Moment is potentially in this level of performance when set up well to avoid the inherent ICT handling instability. All these require platform damping quality compromises.

    Check out the Marin, it's amazing.

    - ray

  39. #39
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    Lets talk Marin attack trail.

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    No platform shock compromise required unlike nearly all other bikes with over 4 inch travel. RP3 is stock, but Marin factory insider says DHX is even better for superb tuning of a coil ride (but not warranted due to bottom out risk with wrong spring), but better stick with air for your DUC fork to match feel and rate better, and 2 pounds less, to 27 lbs easy. Adjustable trailside in 3 seconds infinitely from 4 - 6 inch travel for even more efficient long climbs and for handling tweaks. Does the DUC adjust 2 inches trailside or on the fly? if not get a fork that does unless you don't climb. Jon Whyte design, truly a championship F1 design perspective, not hype. The Attack Trail frame is built to slam it's travel.

    If there is a new Dave Wegal D-W Link 6 inch design for Iron Horse it would be better performing than any other besides the Whyte/Marin Attack Trail design. Dave knows what makes a fully work right without platform shock compromises.

    The Giant Maestro sounds promising, being close to a D-W Link design.

    The Intense EPV 5.5 is an amazing XC ride, but not a freeride bike, also no platform damping required.

    The Talas/Talas Switchblade is the best of the classics adapted for longer travel, but a bit light weight for freeride slamming.

    The new Specialized Enduro with 6 inch travel should be very adjustable, adaptable and durable, needing platform damping for good pedaling. And potentially better handling than a Moment.

    The Yeti 575 would keep it simple and light, but it's not a freeride slammer. A Santa Cruz Heckler or Ventana X5 or El Salamontes, or a Foes 6 incher would pedal about as well and hold up to freeride much better. The Moment is potentially in this level of performance when set up well to avoid the inherent ICT handling instability. All these require platform damping quality compromises.

    Check out the Marin, it's amazing.

    - ray
    Okay, you got me interested in the Marin. Can the attack trail handle aggressive trail/light freeriding? No one really talks about Marin on this forum and I have never tested one, so I would like an opinion on the all around capabilities of the 6" Marin. I am also very interested in the Specialized 6" enduro/sx trail 6" bikes. I have a Heckler that I am happy with, but I am always looking and testing different bikes.

  40. #40
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    Derby - Can you explain a little further what you are talking about in terms that a non-engineer can understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    No platform shock compromise required unlike nearly all other bikes with over 4 inch travel. RP3 is stock, but Marin factory insider says DHX is even better for superb tuning of a coil ride.
    Aren't the RP3 and DHX "platform" shocks?

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The new Specialized Enduro with 6 inch travel should be very adjustable, adaptable and durable, needing platform damping for good pedaling. And potentially better handling than a Moment.
    Why better handling than the Moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The Moment is potentially in this level of performance when set up well to avoid the inherent ICT handling instability. All these require platform damping quality compromises.
    - ray
    Can you explain? I've never heard of this.

    Thanks - SS

  41. #41
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    high maintenance

    I was quite keen on the Marin Attack Trail (and Whyte 46) until I spoke to people who actually owned them. There appears to be too many reliability issues, particularly related to the swing arm. I know Marin look after their customers, but it's much better not to have problems in the first place. I had a brief test ride on a whyte 46 and wasn't particularly impressed. Lots of creaking noises and ghost shifting. The welding wasn't the best I've ever seen either. I work as a professional engineer in Formula 1 too by the way and they are the most unreliable, high maintenance machines you could ever imagine. Be warned!

    There is nothing wrong with platform shocks either. I have a Swinger 3-way air on my Ventana X5 and it pedals just fine with no obvious loss of comfort. Personally, I like the simplicity of single pivot bikes in the real world. If there is a loss in efficiency I haven't noticed it yet and don't really care.

  42. #42
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    Fully agree with the single-pivot. For those (most) of us who don'thave teams of bike mechanics to look towards after each ride the low-maintenance is an important consideration. Fewer pivots= less to go wrong.

    I now ride a Cannondale Prophet 1000 with the Swinger 3-way..... it is a FANTASTIC shock... not an ounce of bob.. on the rough stuff it climbs better than my hardtail (Orange E3).... and on the smooth the main difference is the couple extra pounds that the Cannondale carried.

    Now I know that mentioning 'Dales in an open forum is something like heresy.... but I tried a lot of bikes, and this one came out on top (with the Orange 5... also with a Swinger 3-way in close second... and the "legendary" Blur a long way down my list......)

  43. #43
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    Iíve demoed the Attack Trail near equivalent, Wolf Ridge, and it was a very stable plush ride with the stock old style Float-R (non-propedal) shock and Talas fork. Iíve also demoed the EVP 5.5, and Heckler, Switchblade (at 4.25 inch travel), and ridden similar bikes to the otherís Iíve listed, including the Iron Hosre Hollowpoint which is also very impressive and is the very best pedaling bike in itís travel class. I donít know about Marin durability issues, but everyone I meet on the trail with a Marin is very happy with their bikes.

    Coil is more fine tunable than air suspension and is smoother rider over smaller bumps and sharp hits. The RP3 and DHX have adjustment setting that can option for platform reactive damping or not. SO a rider has the option if they like the choppier ride of platform damping. Most longer travel bikes and some shorter travel bikes are rather unstable handling and inefficient pedaling without the help of platform damping.

    I prefer bikes that are designed to use faster, freer acting damping while maintaining stability and efficiency through suspension geometry, for better feel and traction. Thatís why I list those bikes at the top of my list. But platform shocks bring all other bikes up closer to the performance of the best bike designs.

    Just my opinion from much demoing and test riding fullies for over 7 years. Other opinions may vary.

    - ray

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Ive demoed the Attack Trail near equivalent, Wolf Ridge, and it was a very stable plush ride with the stock old style Float-R (non-propedal) shock and Talas fork. Ive also demoed the EVP 5.5, and Heckler, Switchblade (at 4.25 inch travel), and ridden similar bikes to the others Ive listed, including the Iron Hosre Hollowpoint which is also very impressive and is the very best pedaling bike in its travel class. I dont know about Marin durability issues, but everyone I meet on the trail with a Marin is very happy with their bikes.

    Coil is more fine tunable than air suspension and is smoother rider over smaller bumps and sharp hits. The RP3 and DHX have adjustment setting that can option for platform reactive damping or not. SO a rider has the option if they like the choppier ride of platform damping. Most longer travel bikes and some shorter travel bikes are rather unstable handling and inefficient pedaling without the help of platform damping.

    I prefer bikes that are designed to use faster, freer acting damping while maintaining stability and efficiency through suspension geometry, for better feel and traction. Thats why I list those bikes at the top of my list. But platform shocks bring all other bikes up closer to the performance of the best bike designs.

    Just my opinion from much demoing and test riding fullies for over 7 years. Other opinions may vary.

    - ray
    I agree you have a valid point of view and it is important to match the shock with the particular suspension geometry of your bike and riding style. Platform damping works very well with certain single pivot designs and can be detrimental to other 4-bar designs. It's also very dependent on riding style. Some people naturally induce more pedal bob than others or are less sensitive to its effect.

    Not sure what you mean about coil shocks being more fine tunable than air?

    For me personally (heavyweight cruiser rather than racer) the potential advantages of a multi-pivot design are outweighed by the increased weight, friction, maintenance and the loss of lateral stiffness. Friends that have had Marins for a short time (less than a year) are usually very happy and others that have had them longer get fed up with replacing swing arms and creaking bearings. As usual every design will have certain compromises so it's a matter of understanding them and making the right choice for your own circumstances.

  45. #45
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    For sub 30lbs (13.65kg), you have the Mondraker Foxy R
    Tires, tubes, must be upgraded to reach the 13,65kgs
    Originally it`s 14kgs.
    Tyres= +/-980grm each
    Tubes= +/- 180 gm each

    All-Mountain 1 = 130/150mm
    Max. Rear Travel= 150mm

    The only thing that is troubling me, it`s the air-spring rear shock. As I read in other parts, they can leak…
    Can a Swinger shock be more reliable than the DHX?

    For weight savings, you can go where:
    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/


    PS- First topic and didn‚Äôt introduce myself. I am from Portugal, and right now, I am choosing between Mondraker Curve R (16.1 kg coil spring 400‚ā¨ less money then the Foxy R (14kg, air sprung,tuna).

    Tchau!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy B
    Fully agree with the single-pivot. For those (most) of us who don'thave teams of bike mechanics to look towards after each ride the low-maintenance is an important consideration. Fewer pivots= less to go wrong.
    Maybe you should talk to some four bar owners and find how little maintenance is needed. I have a four year old FSR with the original bearings in all the pivots (no pivot maintenance either). The reality is a few bikes have a reputation for chewing out bearings but the rest are very reliable. Single pivot bikes have a single very highly stressed pivot (it holds each end of the bike together), these can give a lot of trouble if you pick the wrong bike.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  47. #47
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    Mind my mind up!

    X-5 with 6" Rockers on its way. Will build up and let you know the weight.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    X-5 with 6" Rockers on its way. Will build up and let you know the weight.
    Welcome to the family!!!

    Let us know the specs of the parts you have and/or have planned....I would love to see them

    ...I just ordered a new wheelset for my X-5 today.

    Cheers

  49. #49
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    But still theres more to decide

    Well here starts more problems....

    What I have:
    19" X-5 with the 6" Rockers and the Romic Shock
    Fork is a DUC32 with the Maverick/Hugi 24mm Hub front hub
    Brakes Hope M4's

    What I need:

    Handlebars - most likely,Eastern Monkey Lite Carbon Fibre Riser bars
    Grips - RaceFace Good & Evils - love the fat feel of these puppies in my mits!
    Shifters - most likely XO Gripshift
    Derailleurs - XO front and rear
    Cranks - heres a hard one.... Holzfellers?
    BB- ?
    Seat Post - love those Thompsons
    Rear Hub - Not sure, match up the Hugi I guess
    Rims and Spokes - need help here, toying with the idea of tubless for the added traction but have had issues with them burping when I have ridden on them before
    Tyres - depends on the rims but I like Vertical Pros

    Any input greatfully accepted. Trying to get this reliable XC/Freeride but still under 30lbs. I'm not a big hucker so don't need the DHR gear but like to throw in a few drop offs and doubles after a good hard climb.

    Cheers.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    Well here starts more problems....

    What I have:
    19" X-5 with the 6" Rockers and the Romic Shock
    Fork is a DUC32 with the Maverick/Hugi 24mm Hub front hub
    Brakes Hope M4's

    What I need:

    Handlebars - most likely,Eastern Monkey Lite Carbon Fibre Riser bars
    Grips - RaceFace Good & Evils - love the fat feel of these puppies in my mits!
    Shifters - most likely XO Gripshift
    Derailleurs - XO front and rear
    Cranks - heres a hard one.... Holzfellers?
    BB- ?
    Seat Post - love those Thompsons
    Rear Hub - Not sure, match up the Hugi I guess
    Rims and Spokes - need help here, toying with the idea of tubless for the added traction but have had issues with them burping when I have ridden on them before
    Tyres - depends on the rims but I like Vertical Pros

    Any input greatfully accepted. Trying to get this reliable XC/Freeride but still under 30lbs. I'm not a big hucker so don't need the DHR gear but like to throw in a few drop offs and doubles after a good hard climb.

    Cheers.
    Great choices....

    bars - while Eastons are great, I am fond of the Answer Pro Taper Carbon (made by Easton though I think).

    Shifters - this is subjective of course and if you prefer gripshift, X.0 clearly way to go to keep weight down. I am putting those on my XC bike.

    Grips - I like the feel of race face as well. I JUST CANT STAND non ODI-lock grips though. I love the lock and complete inability for grips to slip...just my preference though.

    Derailleurs - X.0 in back of course. Not sure I would put the SRAM der on front though. In addition to being new, they are about 50grams heavier than XTR I believe.

    Cranks - While I loved the Holzfellers on the Bullit, they are not light (cant remember but I am sure over 900 grams with bb included) of course but are pretty light for their strength/weight ratio. Given your intent for the bike, if you want to stay under 900 grams perhaps just the XT cranks (I think about 860 or so w/ bb). Personally, if you dont mind a bit over 900 grams (for cranks and bb), I would also consider the Race Face Atlas (about 960 if i recall w/ bb).

    Seatpost - For an All Mountain up to freeride bike, definitely Thomson.

    Wheels - ahhh, probably the hardest part. Perhaps the best All Mountain type of setup are the Mavic XM819 rims. Very popular setup for this type of bike. Listed weight under 500 grams per rim (460 I think) but I have heard they actually weigh a tad over 500grams. They are however tubeless compatiable which sounds like a preference for you. Talk to your wheelbuilder about spokes but I personally am going with butted 14/15 spokes and brass nipples on my All Mountain wheelset though it seems many folks are going with supercomp spokes which are lighter. Personally, I am doing them on my XC build but not my X-5 build. Rear hub I guess you cant go wrong with Hugi. Other top contenders of course are Hadley, King, and Hope. I am going with Hope Bulb hubs on my new X-5 wheelset. They are relatively light but cheaper than King and Hadley....give me the optoin of standard or 12mm axle in rear and come on colors!!!

    I am running Kenda Cortez tires which I love for my terrain. They are very fast rolling and are 2.4 large volume tires and weigh under 700 grams....this will vary by terrain of course. I will try the infamous combo of Kenda Blue Groove 2.35 front / Kenda Nevegal 2.1 rear next time though.

    Cheers

  51. #51
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    A couple suggestions

    Hi Phimple, here are my suggestions:

    Frame: Maverick ML8 - 6.5" travel at 6.5 lbs. Yes it is a freeride worthy frame, and so is their fork for moderate freeride. You don't want to do downhills, and probably not go to a jump park, but moderate jumps etc. You should check it out. They're just starting to become available, and are the same price as a Moment, but lighter and a bit more travel.

    Fork: Maverick DUC32. I have had one for well over a year, and like you, am not a DH hucker but an ex-XC guy who likes technical stuff, the occasional 3-footer, still likes to climb, etc. The fork is bombproof. Tracks dead-on straight. Insanely light. I rarely use the 4" mode because bob is not bad even when out of the saddle if you set it up right. I don't even use the 4" mode when commuting to work on it, because I like to play around on curbs etc.

    Bars: I really like the Easton Monkeylite DH bars which are 225 grams, lifetime warranty, and 28" wide. The width is great for technical stuff. Mine just finished their 3rd season and are still going strong. I've heard the '05 bars are even stronger.

    Shifters-Derailleurs: Try the gripshift twisters or X.9 triggers with the X.0 rear. X.0 shifts as well or better than XTR, doesn't require the funky integrated shifters of XTR, and the rear derailleur is actually lighter.

    Seatpost: Thompson.

    Tires: Tough choice, and most importantly, really depends on your riding style and WHERE you ride. Conti Vert Pros are great for loose stuff like in the Colo Rockies, but really measure like a std 2.1 not a 2.3. That's not freeride. Plus the casings aren't too strong. I really like the Kenda Kinetics 2.3 STICK-E's b/c they're $20 each and last a good half season at least. I set them up (non-UST) with Stan's on UST rims. That's a fairly bombproof combo.
    just ride

  52. #52
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    Great choice of parts. I have a couple of suggestions to throw out.

    For the handle bar - look at the Maxm MX-5 and or MX-6. Great, strong, and light Carbon Bar

    Cranks - I second the Race Face Atlas. I've been running mine for a few months with no problems. The replaced Race Face Next LP's with a Ti Bottom Bracket (which was my favorite set up) and I like the Atlas better.

    Rims - The Mavic Rims are great, but also consider the DT Swiss XR4.1D with Supercomp spokes. With the Hugi hubs it gives you a full DT setup. You can also run the DT tubless conversion kit with the DT Rims if you want to try tubeless. Would be a light and strong combo.

    I also second the Kenda Nevgal/Blue Groove Set up. Run the 2.1's or 2.35's.
    Last edited by string; 12-02-2004 at 07:26 AM. Reason: spelling and format

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by string
    Great choice of parts. I have a couple of suggestions to throw out.

    For the handle bar - look at the Maxm MX-5 and or MX-6. Great, strong, and light Carbon Bar

    Cranks - I second the Race Face Atlas. I've been running mine for a few months with no problems. The replaced Race Face Next LP's with a Ti Bottom Bracket (which was my favorite set up) and I like the Atlas better.

    Rims - The Mavic Rims are great, but also consider the DT Swiss XR4.1D with Supercomp spokes. With the Hugi hubs it gives you a full DT setup. You can also run the DT tubless conversion kit with the DT Rims if you want to try tubeless. Would be a light and strong combo.

    I also second the Kenda Nevgal/Blue Groove Set up. Run the 2.1's or 2.35's.
    Good point on the rims. It will certainly help on the weight factor and they are awesome rims (mine are almost done being built for my XC bike). My only concern with them for an All Mountain type of bike is that may be too XCish....but I defer to expert wheelbuilders on this one.

    Other options on rims perhaps are the Syncros 25 (or 28), both under 600 grams. Plenty of folks seem to give these the thumbs up and the price is right as well. Mavic XM321 are listed at 570 grams and are cheap but my guess is that they probably weigh closer to 600 grams, but that is a guess based on other mavics weighing more than listed weights.

    The Mavic Xm819s really do sound great.....but unfortuntately, they may be out of stock right now I was told yesterday. The weigh in at about 500 grams real weight, and can be run tubless which sounded like a desired feature.

    Cheers

  54. #54
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    The syncros does seem to be hot rim right now.

    I've got a year on the DT Rims 9 months on my 4.5" travel FSR and 3 months on my Foes FXR and they have held up well. I'm not a hucker, but they have handle drops in the 3 foot range and several direct impacts that have sent me over the bars with out damage or truing to the rim. They are some what in between a freeride and XC rim. Heavier than the light XC rims, but lighter than a true freeride.

  55. #55
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    The problem with skinny rims isn't the strength, it's the amount of tyre roll you get when running large and soft tyres on them.

    I swapped a sun DS1-xc (horrrible rim) which was about 17mm wide (inside) for a mavic 519 (now called 719) which are 19mm inside. It made a surprising difference to the visual tyre profile and the amount of tyre roll. I really like the solid feeling you get from rims like the old 321 (now 729), but they're a little ridiculous if 30lb is your target.

    The reason I run mavics is the nice hard alloy. They don't suffer from flatspots even when you think they should.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  56. #56
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    Tubless Tyres

    All good points.....

    Are the Kenda Nevegal/Blue Groove tubless? I had a look at the Kenda website and couldn't really tell 100%. I have never run any Kenda or haven't even had any friends run them, the closest I have been is a Kenda Surprise which was a few years ago.....

    Good idea on the Hope hub being able to run the bigger rear axle is a great idea, does it come with the bigger axle as well?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    All good points.....

    Are the Kenda Nevegal/Blue Groove tubless? I had a look at the Kenda website and couldn't really tell 100%. I have never run any Kenda or haven't even had any friends run them, the closest I have been is a Kenda Surprise which was a few years ago.....

    Good idea on the Hope hub being able to run the bigger rear axle is a great idea, does it come with the bigger axle as well?
    I do not think the Nevegal or Blue Groove (at least not in larger sizes) come tubeless but I certainly could be wrong. You can make your wheelset tubeless however using stans notubes...I think kendas work quite well in that regard but defer to others to confirm.

    not sure on the Hope Bulb hub axle question...I am ordering mine with standard QR.

    Cheers

  58. #58
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    Blue Groove & Nevegal are being release in a 2.1 UST this winter. The larger sizes are standard only.
    I've been running the standard tires tubeless with Stan's on DT 4.1's. No problem with the 2.1 tire, but have had a hard time getting the small pinhole leaks on the 2.35 to seal no matter how much sealant I add or how many times I shake it. It holds for a few days and then flats. Not the biggest deal since I just check the pressure before a ride and leaks so slowly that its not noticeable over a 3 hr ride, but annoying just the same. May have something to do with the narrow profile of the rim and the width of the tire, but I don't really know.

  59. #59
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    575 + Duc 32 = :^ )

    You will not find a better value than the Yeti 575 with the Maverick DUC 32 up front. As long as you do not plan to beat the snot of of it, this should be at the top of your list. If you think you will be dropping the bike over 4 feet, then check out the 6 pack, but you will pay in weight. Contact the guys over at http://www.boutiquebikes.com/ for their opinion. They sell nothing but the best and have great service with flexibility. Their lines are Turner, Santa Cruz, Yeti, Intense, Banshee, Evil and Ventana. Smokin' prices too!!
    Ride it like you stole it!

  60. #60
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    Its here!

    Well the frame has made it arrival in NZ, and might I say it is even more beautiful in person. It was a hard weekend looking at it and not being able to ride it. I have even sold my old bike so had to hit the tarmac on the roadie instead.

    Just waiting on the forks to turn up now so I can try it out. Hopefully they make it here before Santa does...

    It so purdie, it will seem like a sin to get it all dirty and dinged up. The first scratch is going to be tears.....

    Will post pics when shes all built up.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    Well the frame has made it arrival in NZ, and might I say it is even more beautiful in person. It was a hard weekend looking at it and not being able to ride it. I have even sold my old bike so had to hit the tarmac on the roadie instead.

    Just waiting on the forks to turn up now so I can try it out. Hopefully they make it here before Santa does...

    It so purdie, it will seem like a sin to get it all dirty and dinged up. The first scratch is going to be tears.....

    Will post pics when shes all built up.
    I must have missed something, what frame did you get?

  62. #62
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    And the winner is...

    Ventana X5 with the 6" rockers and the Romic shock - colour Star Dust

    And shes soooooooo fine...

  63. #63
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    Ventana X5

    Phimple,
    Got a Friend that loves his X5 and will get another in 2005.
    You will be very impressed with the ride and quality construction and customer service, if you should even need it. You can't go wrong with this bike.
    If you are do not have a LBS to get the bike you want, give my LBS a call, as they will ship anywhere in the world, great guys, and will swap out any parts from any build kits at iether no or little cost - very accomodating and flexible that way. At the very least, contact Don or Brian from their website and get price and availability when you are ready: http://www.boutiquebikes.com/
    I do wish you well and good luck finding the ultimate bike!!
    Brooksie
    Ride it like you stole it!

  64. #64
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    Finally shes built up!

    Many a sleepless night of anticipation on this one... but Christmas is early and I'm one happy camper.

    Final build summary:

    19Ē Ventana X5 with 6Ē Rockers and Romic
    Maverick Fork
    XT cranks
    XTR front derailleur
    XTR Cables
    XTR/Dura Ace chain
    Sram XO shifters
    Sram XO rear derailleur
    Hope M4 Brakes
    Front wheel Ė Mavic 819 (or X3.1 they call them here) Maverick hub
    Rear wheel Ė Mavic 819, Hope Bulb hub, Hope skewer
    Tires - Kenda Nevgal/Blue Groove 2.1 and 2.3 on the front
    Monkeylite Carbon riser bars
    Raceface grios
    Thompson laidback seat post
    Fizik Niscene Cow seat (trusty favorite)
    Time pedals

    Final weight a smidgeon over 29lbs.

    I have been for one quick ride right on dark because I couldnít sleep and I was very impressed, even with all the adjustments not right it still rode extremely well. Both ends are ultra stiff and compared to previous bikes the ride and tracking is amazing. Even setup wrong it climbed and descended very well things can only get better with time to tinker.

    Iím not running the tires tubeless yet and I could loose some more weight by going to a titanium spring I guess.

    Looking forward to a decent ride and some time to play with the setup.

    Thanks for all the advice guys!
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    Last edited by Phimple; 12-21-2004 at 04:57 PM.

  65. #65
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    Very nice!!!! congrats

  66. #66
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    Giant AC under 30 lbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by rideit
    2 different Giant AC's, 1 6" one 6.3" rear. The 03" 6.3" rear was built with a DUC 32, it weighs 28.5 lbs with real tires.
    Turner 5 spot with DUC, 29 lbs with coilover!
    Giant VT with Talus, 29 lbs. 5.7" travel.
    All of these assume complete and total replacement of parts with top shelf.

    How'd you do that? list your parts so I can copy, er.. admire your work..

    REEK

  67. #67
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    Congrats. it looks fantastic. The ultimate trail bashing machine!

  68. #68
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    Spoke to soon.....

    When I said things could only get better I may have been wrong.....

    Went out yesterday morning to setup the Romic and DUC's.

    Wound up the spring tension on the Romic to get the sag correct, gave it some more rebound, maybe too much I think...

    Adjusted the pressure in the DUC's upto 100psi (I weigh 87kgs so around 191lbs) and had a play with the rebound adjuster, didn't seem to do much? Went for a short ride around the house and off some little (6") drops, seemed much better.

    Went inside feeling all smug on what I was about to realease on my unsuspecting riding buddies.

    Couple of hours later went for a ride around the corner to a mates place to get some protective tape to cover the cable rub spots on the frame (whish is the only issue I have with the frame so far and its only because it has beautiful paintwork so you notice the rub marks), riding up his drive thought man this thing is really bouncing all over the place and the peddling is getting hard with all the bucking...

    AND... stopped to see what was wrong, left hand front seal had blown out and dumped all the shock oil into the Hope brake pads..... I sat on the side of the drive thinking thoughts I dare not type and wondering what would be the chances of getting a warranty job done now in time for Christmas holidays.....

    So I had a sleepless night tossing and turning, got up at 0500 (NZ time) and rung Maverick, Frank V answered the phone (everybody else snowed in at home, got to love have summer here!) and he was like "Oh yeah, sounds like you got one of the faulty Air Shocks, I'll send you another" No drama, didn't even have time to rant, so at 0502 the dog got it in the ear cos I had to vent.

    Still at least somethings on the way, no bike for the holidays (I'm guessing its going to take ages to get here with all the bank holidays etc) but still at least I know its a known issue and Maverick are sorting it out.

    So time will tell how good it really is as a combo. And I am left thinking maybe I should have a backup bike....and if so what will it be? I have some time on my hands now to look as I won't be biking....

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    When I said things could only get better I may have been wrong.....

    Went out yesterday morning to setup the Romic and DUC's.

    Wound up the spring tension on the Romic to get the sag correct, gave it some more rebound, maybe too much I think...

    Adjusted the pressure in the DUC's upto 100psi (I weigh 87kgs so around 191lbs) and had a play with the rebound adjuster, didn't seem to do much? Went for a short ride around the house and off some little (6") drops, seemed much better.

    Went inside feeling all smug on what I was about to realease on my unsuspecting riding buddies.

    Couple of hours later went for a ride around the corner to a mates place to get some protective tape to cover the cable rub spots on the frame (whish is the only issue I have with the frame so far and its only because it has beautiful paintwork so you notice the rub marks), riding up his drive thought man this thing is really bouncing all over the place and the peddling is getting hard with all the bucking...

    AND... stopped to see what was wrong, left hand front seal had blown out and dumped all the shock oil into the Hope brake pads..... I sat on the side of the drive thinking thoughts I dare not type and wondering what would be the chances of getting a warranty job done now in time for Christmas holidays.....

    So I had a sleepless night tossing and turning, got up at 0500 (NZ time) and rung Maverick, Frank V answered the phone (everybody else snowed in at home, got to love have summer here!) and he was like "Oh yeah, sounds like you got one of the faulty Air Shocks, I'll send you another" No drama, didn't even have time to rant, so at 0502 the dog got it in the ear cos I had to vent.

    Still at least somethings on the way, no bike for the holidays (I'm guessing its going to take ages to get here with all the bank holidays etc) but still at least I know its a known issue and Maverick are sorting it out.

    So time will tell how good it really is as a combo. And I am left thinking maybe I should have a backup bike....and if so what will it be? I have some time on my hands now to look as I won't be biking....

    Sorry to hear that. So you don't have another fork and front wheel you can ride?

    I've got the other problem at the opposite end of the country. My bike is running great but we've had heavy rain almost every day for the whole of december. It takes about 3-4 days for the trails to dry out so that's been a long time with no riding.

    But I'm heading to Central Otago for Christmas, the driest place in NZ for some quality riding.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
    SPV Devolve

  70. #70
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    A back-up fork and rear shock might be more cost effective than an entire bike. There are some bargains to be had on e-bay if you go for something a couple of years old and you can easily sell them on if you never use them.

  71. #71
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    whyte 46

    Hey! If your looking at a lightweight bike that clibs well but that can take some hits, take a look at the whyte 46, it has a maverick fork like you want with 4-6" of ajustable travel and the rear has 4-6" of ajustable travel as well.

    This is the link to the bike on their website, take a look at it and see what you think.

    http://www.whytebikes.com/whyte-2004...uSubCat=models

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques12345
    Hey! If your looking at a lightweight bike that clibs well but that can take some hits, take a look at the whyte 46, it has a maverick fork like you want with 4-6" of ajustable travel and the rear has 4-6" of ajustable travel as well.

    This is the link to the bike on their website, take a look at it and see what you think.

    http://www.whytebikes.com/whyte-2004...uSubCat=models
    Already been discussed earlier in this thread along with the Marin Attack Trail. Looks great on paper and very good uk press, but questionable build quality and reliability. I've noticed quite a few second hand ones for sale recently, which is not a good sign. Definitely worthy of a mention though I admit.

  73. #73
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    http://cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/model-5VE4.html this is 140 mil travel front and rear and is 24 pounds

  74. #74
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    if phimple's bike weighs under 30 lbs I'll eat my own feces.

    his build is not that different from my 35 lbs X-5, which is a lighter framed medium. the only difference is he has a 1.5 lbs lighter fork.

    I call BS on the weight. and I call it loud and clear.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    if phimple's bike weighs under 30 lbs I'll eat my own feces.

    his build is not that different from my 35 lbs X-5, which is a lighter framed medium. the only difference is he has a 1.5 lbs lighter fork.

    I call BS on the weight. and I call it loud and clear.
    I'd like to know how you managed to get your X5 up to 35 lbs. It must be a pretty hefty build if this is correct. My large X5 is a fraction over 30 lbs weighed accurately on calibrated scales. This ties up pretty well with the calculated figure I had for all the components. I'm running a Pike fork, Swinger air shock, Crossmax XL wheels and all the usual trimmings. No carbon bits.

  76. #76
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    Not wanting to call anyone out here, but this Bullit weighs 34.5 pounds and I bet there is a full pound difference in frames with the X5 being lighter. I also use the new Z1 FR1 fork that weighs 5.9 pounds, so I guess that there is about 2 pounds differnce there. Three pounds of weight will drop the weight to 31.5, I also am running 2.35 Minions that weigh 850g's and flat DH type pedals, so 1/2 pound might be lost there, the other 1.5-2 pounds will be a bit harder to see, so I guess that a 30lb X5 is not hard to do, any lighter though would be tougher.
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  77. #77
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    I'm pretty close to 30

    I want to find a good scale.
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    Are you wearing protection?
    This message is hidden because gmaki is on your ignore list.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phimple
    I have started the search for the perfect replacement bike. Trying to get 6" front and rear and still be under 30lbs.

    Riding is mixture of everything except DHR, so must be able to climb and handle epic days as well as some good freeride fun.

    Fork is most likely going to be Maverick DUC 32 as its an awesme fork, plush, 6" and only 3.5lbs.

    So looking for frame options now, Ellsworth Moment is one weighing in at 6.9lbs for the large frame.

    What other options are there that have the 6" rear end without adding an extra 2-3lbs.
    Moment sounds good, some mag (i forget which) gave it rave reviews.... DUC 32 should kick ass on anything...
    People who really know what happened aren't talking. And the people who don't have a clue, you can't shut them up.
    Tom Waits

  79. #79
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    Cannondale Gemini custom build

    How about a custom built Gemini? I bought a standard Gemini 900 2 years ago and have been upgrading it ever since. I have now got a 7" travel all day trail bike that is capable of freeride duties that weighs under 32 lbs. I had the Fox vanilla RC shock re-valved in 2003 to the 2004 spec with pro pedal custom to my weight and riding style. It now pedals extremely efficiently for a 7" single pivot bike.

    Below is the spec of my bike:
    Cannondale Gemini- large - with custom tuned Fox Vanilla RC shock with Ti coil
    Maverick DUC fork + hub + stem
    Hope Mono M4 200 /180 brakes with Goodridge hoses
    XT, XT, XTR
    XT HollowTech II cranks + BB
    Crank Bros EggBeater pedals
    MonkeyLite Bars
    RaceFace XY seatpost
    WTB Speed V saddle with Ti
    Mavic XM321 rims, DB spokes, Maverick front hub, Hope XC rear, Continental Vertical ProTection 2.3" Tyres
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