575 & Moto-Lite demo at Sea Otter- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    575 & Moto-Lite demo at Sea Otter

    Yeti 575 & Titus Moto-Lite demos at Sea Otter

    Sea Otter was more awesome than ever. Faster riders, more very pretty girls (faster too), better course designs, and more new bike innovations than ever before.

    This was the first time I spent any time on the RP3 shock. It's a very nice air shock with three levels of platform, almost none (very coil like), moderate platform (softer than Propedal), and firm (firmer than Propedal, but appropriate for climbing with longer travel older suspension designs). There was no lockout setting on the RP3's I rode.

    I prefer coil shocks but coil would be impossible to set up for many rider weights and size for a demo bike. So could only imagine the added buttery feel of a coil DHX on the bikes I demoed.

    First ride was the Titus Moto-Lite set up with 5-inch travel. The Moto-Lite is very light, 6 pounds for frame and RP3 air shock. It also has a 4-inch travel setting at the shock bolt mount to the swing link, for more efficient climbing and sport racing. I test rode a medium that felt like a good fit for my 6'1. I?m used to steeper steering and seat geometry on my large 24 inch top tube Intense Tracer set up in a steep adjustment for much climbing. And the slacker 69 or 70 degree steering made the Moto-lite feel stable with about a 1/2 inch shorter top tube. Handling felt quick but not too quick for 5 inch travel, designed to handle downhill without easy over the bar crashes. The Moto-lite designer Chris Coclius was there and said it was designed to also work with a coil shock if desired. Chris has lost a lot of weight, I barely recognized him. Congratulations! if you are reading this.)

    The Moto-Lite pedaled like butter when seated in through smaller to medium bumps with a moderate amount of bob with the RP3 set to lowest platform. When standing while pedaling it firmed up slightly for a very snappy acceleration and climbing feel compared to most other longer travel trail bikes. The 5.5 VPP is more acceleration efficient but relaxes less when climbing in bumps and stalls the pedal cadence more than the Moto-lite.

    Braking was very stable and tracked the ground better than the floating brake IC geometry would imply, When rear braking only without front brake, the rear suspension extends mildly like most Horst links into a lighter spring range for very good bump compliance and traction. The 575 monopivot Yeti I rode had less free extension when rear braking (but nearly as good braking behavior). This evidence shows that IC mapping of leverage is not the tell-all for braking behavior.

    There is a rear tire size limitation of the Moto-Lite to 2.25 Chris said they are addressing for future production runs to allow 2.4 sizes to fit. Fit and finish is at the highest level that is typical of all Titus bikes.

    The Yeti 575 masters monopivot (very near) 6-inch travel trail bike design. Its very light, a 6-pound frame with RP3 air shock. It pedals with surprisingly little bob with the RP3 shock set with least platform damping, when seated or standing due to initial falling rate shock linkage, climbing steep loose inclines like a goat. Pedaling while climbing felt identical to the Ellsworth Truth, very buttery with little squat, excellent for 6-inch travel (only OK if for 4 inch travel compared to the many better climbers than the Truth.). The 575 climbs better with much less squat and bob than the Id. The Moto-Lite pedaled with a bit more snap but was not as plush as the 575, probably due mostly to travel differences. The factory rep that set up the demo for me said that the 575 is warranted with duel-crown use. So the bike could be set up for a heavy-duty use bike. This was surprising to me given the very light 6-pound weight of the frame, I doubt it would hold up to massive hucking, but would hold up to very rough big drop downhill use. The bike felt very low-flex.

    The 575 braking is very stable and modulation of the rear brake is easy without lockup. There are a few better rear-braking bikes, but not by much.

    The large felt stretched out for me, having a 24+ inch top tube. At 6'1 I'd get a medium for trail bike use for more nimble handling that is still very stable. A very tall rider about 6'4+ would fit the large 575 well. The steering was similar to the Moto-Lite with 69-degree head angle and about 73-degree seat. The BB height was fairly low at 13.5 for so much travel, but since it didn't pedal bob much that should be fine for good pedaling clearance.

    Looking at the total package, including frame- w/shock-only pricing barely over $1,000, both bikes are superstars in the trail bike world now. They are light at 6 pounds. Few $2,000 frames are as light with as much travel. The 5-Spot is 1/2 pound heavier with the same shock. Having ridden the also very light Intense 5.5 EVP and if money were no object, I'd choose the 575 for it's superior big bump pedaling leverage compliance, unless I wanted to race too because the VPP is quicker. Perhaps I could get used to the stiffening VPP action when climbing in rocks, but add the price difference and the more extreme use longer travel 1 degree slacker steering geometry, the Yeti wins my choice.

    There is only one longer travel bike I'm still very curious to test ride now, the Iron Horse Mkiii, but at over a pound heavier, the most efficient DW-Link pedaling may not be enough to surpass the 575 in all around climbing and handling. Rumor is that the Mkiii will be lightened up next year to compete better with these long travel trail bikes that climb like they have half the travel.

    - ray
    Last edited by derby; 04-18-2005 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #2
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    faster girls?

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Yeti 575 & Titus Moto-Lite demos at Sea Otter

    Sea Otter was more awesome than ever. Faster riders, more very pretty girls (faster too), better course designs, and more new bike innovations than ever before.
    J/k, nice write up Ray, one of these days must try to get there to check out the faster, er, things.

    Is the Moto Lite a VPP, or a 4 bar? I'm falling behind with all the design changes and my old age.

    Cheers, Jim

  3. #3
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    Nice writeup, Ray. Yup, the 575 spanks in every department. One of my favorite bikes. And you didn't miss anything being "stuck" with the RP3. I think it rides better than the DHX in many applications (and most noticeably on my 5-Spot).
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    Great write up!

    I have had a few people who have ridden Spot's and 575's who prefer the 575. I'm not motivated enough to change frames at this point to make the change. But, I hear the 575 is a climbing machine that is plush. Great frame.

    I bet the DHX would be awesome! DGC says it rides smooth then the RP3. I hear they are a pain in the butt to set up. Hard to say.

    Are you still riding the Tracer?

    Jaybo

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Yeti 575 & Titus Moto-Lite demos at Sea Otter

    Sea Otter was more awesome than ever. Faster riders, more very pretty girls (faster too), better course designs, and more new bike innovations than ever before.

    This was the first time I spent any time on the RP3 shock. It's a very nice air shock with three levels of platform, almost none (very coil like), moderate platform (softer than Propedal), and firm (firmer than Propedal, but appropriate for climbing with longer travel older suspension designs). There was no lockout setting on the RP3's I rode.

    I prefer coil shocks but coil would be impossible to set up for many rider weights and size for a demo bike. So could only imagine the added buttery feel of a coil DHX on the bikes I demoed.

    First ride was the Titus Moto-Lite set up with 5-inch travel. The Moto-Lite is very light, 6 pounds for frame and RP3 air shock. It also has a 4-inch travel setting at the shock bolt mount to the swing link, for more efficient climbing and sport racing. I test rode a medium that felt like a good fit for my 6'1. I?m used to steeper steering and seat geometry on my large 24 inch top tube Intense Tracer set up in a steep adjustment for much climbing. And the slacker 69 or 70 degree steering made the Moto-lite feel stable with about a 1/2 inch shorter top tube. Handling felt quick but not too quick for 5 inch travel, designed to handle downhill without easy over the bar crashes. The Moto-lite designer Chris Coclius was there and said it was designed to also work with a coil shock if desired. Chris has lost a lot of weight, I barely recognized him. Congratulations! if you are reading this.)

    The Moto-Lite pedaled like butter when seated in through smaller to medium bumps with a moderate amount of bob with the RP3 set to lowest platform. When standing while pedaling it firmed up slightly for a very snappy acceleration and climbing feel compared to most other longer travel trail bikes. The 5.5 VPP is more acceleration efficient but relaxes less when climbing in bumps and stalls the pedal cadence more than the Moto-lite.

    Braking was very stable and tracked the ground better than the floating brake IC geometry would imply, When rear braking only without front brake, the rear suspension extends mildly like most Horst links into a lighter spring range for very good bump compliance and traction. The 575 monopivot Yeti I rode had less free extension when rear braking (but nearly as good braking behavior). This evidence shows that IC mapping of leverage is not the tell-all for braking behavior.

    There is a rear tire size limitation of the Moto-Lite to 2.25 Chris said they are addressing for future production runs to allow 2.4 sizes to fit. Fit and finish is at the highest level that is typical of all Titus bikes.

    The Yeti 575 masters monopivot (very near) 6-inch travel trail bike design. Its very light, a 6-pound frame with RP3 air shock. It pedals with surprisingly little bob with the RP3 shock set with least platform damping, when seated or standing due to initial falling rate shock linkage, climbing steep loose inclines like a goat. Pedaling while climbing felt identical to the Ellsworth Truth, very buttery with little squat, excellent for 6-inch travel (only OK if for 4 inch travel compared to the many better climbers than the Truth.). The 575 climbs better with much less squat and bob than the Id. The Moto-Lite pedaled with a bit more snap but was not as plush as the 575, probably due mostly to travel differences. The factory rep that set up the demo for me said that the 575 is warranted with duel-crown use. So the bike could be set up for a heavy-duty use bike. This was surprising to me given the very light 6-pound weight of the frame, I doubt it would hold up to massive hucking, but would hold up to very rough big drop downhill use. The bike felt very low-flex.

    The 575 braking is very stable and modulation of the rear brake is easy without lockup. There are a few better rear-braking bikes, but not by much.

    The large felt stretched out for me, having a 24+ inch top tube. At 6'1 I'd get a medium for trail bike use for more nimble handling that is still very stable. A very tall rider about 6'4+ would fit the large 575 well. The steering was similar to the Moto-Lite with 69-degree head angle and about 73-degree seat. The BB height was fairly low at 13.5 for so much travel, but since it didn't pedal bob much that should be fine for good pedaling clearance.

    Looking at the total package, including frame- w/shock-only pricing barely over $1,000, both bikes are superstars in the trail bike world now. They are light at 6 pounds. Few $2,000 frames are as light with as much travel. The 5-Spot is 1/2 pound heavier with the same shock. Having ridden the also very light Intense 5.5 EVP and if money were no object, I'd choose the 575 for it's superior big bump pedaling leverage compliance, unless I wanted to race too because the VPP is quicker. Perhaps I could get used to the stiffening VPP action when climbing in rocks, but add the price difference and the more extreme use longer travel 1 degree slacker steering geometry, the Yeti wins my choice.

    There is only one longer travel bike I'm still very curious to test ride now, the Iron Horse Mkiii, but at over a pound heavier, the most efficient DW-Link pedaling may not be enough to surpass the 575 in all around climbing and handling. Rumor is that the Mkiii will be lightened up next year to compete better with these long travel trail bikes that climb like they have half the travel.

    - ray

    nice review, I tried the motolite about a moth ago (same size medium with rp3) and i have the same impression: the motolite is the current star of the USA production frame world with stellar performance at a honest price and great construction!

    The 575 sounds great ... too bad i bought my frame last year ... i might give the motolite another try and maybe trade my 5-spot in although t might be too much work to be worth it ...

  6. #6
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    Yep, still on Tracer. It felt like travel on the Tracer was shorter than before after getting off the Moto-lite and especially after the 575.

    That 575 was very impressive. Not quite as refined in pedaling or braking as the Moto-lite or my Tracer, but smooth and well balanced and just as light. It would be very versatile to swap to heavy wheels and use for a shuttle bike. Or lighten the wheels and use for a great all day trail bike. It really climbed steep loose dirt very easily, and was very confidence inspiring downhill using a Talas fork. A better fork like a Pike or AM1 on it would be awesome.

    Now I'm really spoiled for a longer travel lightweight AND durable trail bike! The RP3 works just fine for longer travel. I'll need to research if the 575 can use a DHX, a 5th Element coil should work fine with the falling rate linkage.

    What other 6-pound frame with air shock, near 6-inch travel bikes are there?

    1. The Ellsworth Id is awkward handling, unreliable, and way over priced for less than 575 ride quality.
    2. The Intense 5.5 EVP qualifies in excellent design, but is steeper steering geometry and way more expensive.
    3. The lightweight Prophet and Cake have monopivot suspension that are higher and less optimized for best pedaling when climbing rough and loose trails compared to the 575.
    4. Having demoed the Marin Wolf Ridge, it out performs the Yeti in suspension quality and versatility (quick 4 to 6 inch travel adjustment). The Wolf Ridge frame price is even less at under $1000, but it's over a pound heavier with the same shock and flexier.

    Are there any other 6-pound, near 6-inch travel frames? If not the Yeti 575 is the leader now in class.

    - ray

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    I wonder if the large felt too stretched for you based on stem length. I'm 6'1" as well and wouldn't take the medium 575 for anything other than maybe a 4X frame (assuming I was racing for Yeti . . . hahaha that's funny to think about, so ridiculous). I would take a large but with a 70mm stem, 90 max. The medium would require a 110 stem and that's too long for me, I don't like having my weight that far in front of me on descents. Anyhoo, unless you're 6'1" with a super long inseam and very short torso, I doubt the medium will be your best bet.

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  8. #8
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    don't think the 5th coil is an option

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Now I'm really spoiled for a longer travel lightweight AND durable trail bike! The RP3 works just fine for longer travel. I'll need to research if the 575 can use a DHX, a 5th Element coil should work fine with the falling rate linkage.
    The guys from boutiquebikes really wanted to put a coil shock on the 575, too, and after much effort gave up. I'm not sure what the limiting factor was (clearance?) but ask them and I'm sure they can fill you in.
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  9. #9
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    Large would be better for me

    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    The guys from boutiquebikes really wanted to put a coil shock on the 575, too, and after much effort gave up. I'm not sure what the limiting factor was (clearance?) but ask them and I'm sure they can fill you in.
    The demo 575 had a 120 stem and the seat laid back over one inch. The specs show only .4 inch longer TT than my large Tracer (with a 24 inch TT). I use 12 degree sweep risers with a 90mm stem w/ centered seat on Tompson post on the Tracer. My old large Superlight had a 23.5 inch TT but I used a lower 120 stem. I think I'd rather go with a 50 - 75 mm stem on the large 575 with the seat centered or slightly forward for all the climbing I must do near home.

    The RP3 was very nice and not sticky feeling at all. It's probably best.

    How about a Pike or Reba fork? The Pike may be more versital and smoother.

    Also where can I find some money for it?

    - ray

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    hey Derby,

    I can't help you find the money for a new bike, but If you are interested email me for the prices on a group buy I am putting together.

    soulfly_NYC@hotmail.com

  11. #11
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    Nice review Ray, funny you posted this, I have been doing my own little comparison lately. I just recieved my new Turner 6 Pack, I also still have my 04 small 575 laying around so I decided to ride them both with the same parts build, wheels and 05 Z1FR fork.
    The trail is a loop in Socal that has a long steep climb, lots of wet stream crossings with sand, mud and rocks, lots of dry stream bed crossings with lots of baby head round rocks, patches of deep soft sand, fast chatterey decents and some short but nice single track. I road the 6 Pack first, and I must say it was a blast. The bike handled great, has good stability with a 68 deg head angle, and soaks up the bumps well, and like any four-bar suspension, brakes great and climbs great. it was built up to 32.8 pounds, gained a few onces with adding a 600# spring to handle my fat butt.LOL
    So down the fast chattered out downhill, I wondered how the 575 would handle this stuff with all equal parts and after getting home, I disasembled the Pack and put all the parts on the 575, now this is a 6" travel Z1, I never tried this before and after a post by billbobzia with a AM 1 on his 575 I had to try this. MAN, all I can say is the 575 with the long travel fork is amazing! Handled as good as the Pack, atleast in my little drop free world. Now in Whistler or the Shore, Im sure the Pack will leave the 575 behind or the Yeti rider looking for a way around the stunts, but I dont do that stuff anyway.
    I always new that the 575 climbed great, I had it at Mammoth last summer, also it is sweet in the tight singletrack but I never new until a day ago how well it decended.
    Im really wondering now about the Pack, I hate this!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix
    Im really wondering now about the Pack, I hate this!
    I really shouldn't have read that. I too love the Pack but making it 1.5-2 lbs lighter would be great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I really shouldn't have read that. I too love the Pack but making it 1.5-2 lbs lighter would be great.
    what color 575 are you getting?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    what color 575 are you getting?
    LOL. Larry came close to becoming a Yeti dealer over the winter but the deal never materialized. If it had, I very well might be on one today.
    Yeti is located 45 minutes south of here in Golden and they offer demos. I may swing by one day & check them out.
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 04-21-2005 at 07:41 AM.

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    Smile Medium 575 better for tight singletrack?

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    what color 575 are you getting?
    I'd get a grey painted one. My Tracer is grey with red, black, white, and silver flame Intense stickers to brighten it up, and it looks great in the woods and desert red rock.

    After thinking about Go-Ride-James comment about duel slalom use, I'm now thinking that the medium would be better at tighter handling for the roller-coaster tight and twisty singletrack riding I do the most. The 23.4 TT is the same as my old Superlight with 100mm Marzocchi making very similar head and seat angles as the 575. My 24 inch TT Tracer felt too long at first untill I got a much shorter stem, the 24.4 inch large 575 would need a DH stubby stem to feel good, better for higher speeds, but I look more for tricky tighter and technical stuff and maybe use a 100mm stem.

    I rode my Tracer on my favorite local single track loop last night and was trying to imagine 2 more inches of usable travel with no more bike weight on the same trail. Very tempting!

    Although I've often said I'd never sell my Tracer if I got another bike, with a 575 the Tracer would probably never be ridden again. Maybe later this summer.

    - ray
    Last edited by derby; 04-21-2005 at 07:37 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I'd get a grey painted one. My Tracer is grey with red, black, white, and silver flame Intense stickers to brighten it up, and it looks great in the woods and desert red rock.

    After thinking about Go-Ride-James comment about duel slalom use, I'm now thinking that the medium would be better at tighter handling for the roller-coaster tight and twisty singletrack riding I do the most. The 23.4 TT is the same as my old Superlight with 100mm Marzocchi making very similar head and seat angles as the 575. My 24 inch TT Tracer felt too long at first untill I got a much shorter stem, the 24.4 inch large 575 would need a DH stubby stem to feel good, better for higher speeds, but I look more for tricky tighter and technical stuff and maybe use a 100mm stem.

    I rode my Tracer on my favorite local single track loop last night and was trying to imagine 2 more inches of usable travel with no more bike weight on the same trail. Very tempting!

    Although I've often said I'd never sell my Tracer if I got another bike, with a 575 the Tracer would probably never be ridden again. Maybe later this summer.

    - ray
    Ray, you are a role model to me. While I too loved my Tracer, I would NEVER be able to resist temptation to change bike to the level you can....and you ride a much wider variety than me! I don't know how you do it

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I really shouldn't have read that. I too love the Pack but making it 1.5-2 lbs lighter would be great.

    Man Im sorry squeak, you got a one of the nicest Packs aboard, I wonder how that Push'd fork would work on a 575. Maybe you should talk to Darren and Jimmy about the 575 now that they are CO locals. I was expecting to find the 575 all messed up with the 150mm travel fork but NNNNO, it still climbed great and I actually felt like the front end stayed planted a little better than the Pack did. This could also just be differnet body placement too. I will have to try the same trail again with both frames. I had fun on both bikes, a few places I think the Pack had some advanages and likewise, the 575 had some as well. 32.8 pounds vs 30.1 on the 575, with the Fox 36 the 575 will get under 30 pounds. A 29 pound 6" bike, makes ya think dont it?

    I might add that the 575 is so plush and thats still with the 5th Air, I have a RP3 but I have been wanting to sell the Yeti and the shock, but for some reason, I could never do it and now Im feeling that I want to ride it more.

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    nice reviews ray.

    drumstix and Squeaky Wheel, you guys SURE you were in the right frame of mind when you bought your 6-Pack frames? sounds like you just pulled the trigger without much thought. not that I've ever done that, of course.

    If I wanted an uberlight 5" travel rig, the Yeti 575 would be it. but I can't in a million years see the 575 replacing the 6-Pack. not a chance.

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    I duuno. The inspiration to get a Pack came to me after downing a 6-pack.

    Good thing it wasn't after a game of truth or dare

    The Pack's not going anywhere. It's all tongue-in-cheek.

  20. #20
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    beef is good

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I duuno. The inspiration to get a Pack came to me after downing a 6-pack.

    Good thing it wasn't after a game of truth or dare

    The Pack's not going anywhere. It's all tongue-in-cheek.
    After seeing that 575 w/ the mangled seatstay after an uphill crash, I'd have a hard time being comfortable bombing rocky front trails on it without worrying about crash associated damage. I think the added 2 lbs of the 6 Pack is worth it for piece of mind. Interesting to hear so many good things about the 575's ride, tho. It was a serious consideration of mine last year, except I never could manage to snag a ride on the travelling demo bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I duuno. The inspiration to get a Pack came to me after downing a 6-pack.
    now THAT is something I can relate to, Squeaky Wheel. ahem. uh huh.

    I'll bet the 575 is a TON of fun if you are primarily an XC cat looking to cush the ride, it probably feels and handles very fast. Fruita seems like the kind of place where a 575 would be a rockin' good choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix
    I had fun on both bikes, a few places I think the Pack had some advanages and likewise, the 575 had some as well. 32.8 pounds vs 30.1 on the 575, with the Fox 36 the 575 will get under 30 pounds. A 29 pound 6" bike, makes ya think dont it?

    I might add that the 575 is so plush and thats still with the 5th Air, I have a RP3 but I have been wanting to sell the Yeti and the shock, but for some reason, I could never do it and now Im feeling that I want to ride it more.
    Not to mention......The 575 is like $500 less than the Pack. I rode one at Go-Ride a few weeks ago (medium with Vanilla 130 fork) and it felt good. Will it hold up to more burly type riding? I don't know, but with a true All mountain/FR fork like the Z150, AM1, or Fox 36 I'm betting it would handle pretty much everything I could dish out. Hmm. Is it enough different from my HH to be a second bike.... or would it just replace my beloved 100x? Got me thinking too Ray.

    Thanks for the reviews. Oh, you might add this one to your list of light 6 inch bikes: http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1598

    I wish Titus made something between the Motolite and the Supermoto (in travel and weight) in the semi light 6 inch travel category with 68-69 Head tube angle (Other than the SB). The Supermoto's heavy (11lbs with coil!!) and the Motolite's not different enough from my HH.
    Last edited by KRob; 04-21-2005 at 10:44 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob
    I wish Titus made something between the Motolite and the Supermoto (in travel and weight) in the semi light 6 inch travel category with 68-69 Head tube angle (Other than the SB)
    It's called the Switchblade.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    what color 575 are you getting?
    Ano Black with the Enduro 20 kit
    Nothing to see here.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Ano Black with the Enduro 20 kit

    They also have a nice orange front with a polished rear

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    It's called the Switchblade.
    I actually asked that very question to Titus at Sea Otter. Will you make a 6" version of the ML, and their answer was the SuperMoto... To me, they haven't replaced the Quasi-Moto in the lightish 6" trail bike category.

    Nomad could fill that niche.
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  27. #27
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    6 inch fork is the way to go!!

    has changed my bike completely (and it was great before), have about 7-8 rides on it with the am-1 and it really is what the 575 needs (not necessarily the am-1 but a 6 inch fork)...i like the eta feature at times but i am suprised how well it climbs, i think the extra weight helps keep the front end down...
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  28. #28
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    the supermoto 5/6" travel with air shock is probably close to what u are looking for. the quasi was not light. my quasi with the coil over was about 8 1/2lbs. i think the supermoto is actually even a little lighter.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    I actually asked that very question to Titus at Sea Otter. Will you make a 6" version of the ML, and their answer was the SuperMoto... To me, they haven't replaced the Quasi-Moto in the lightish 6" trail bike category.

    Nomad could fill that niche.
    I guess I don't understand why the Switchblade doesn't fit that niche. Looks & sounds like it does. The older version pretty much came close and the new one looks sweet but there's been little to no buzz surrounding it and I haven't seen one yet up close.

    As another posted said, the SuperMoto in 5/6" can be built fairly light. At least as light as a 6-Pack.

  30. #30
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    I understand the Supermoto to be over 10 lbs and to me that puts it in a different category.

    Billybobzia, Nice looking 575.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    ...
    What other 6-pound frame with air shock, near 6-inch travel bikes are there?...
    Are there any other 6-pound, near 6-inch travel frames? If not the Yeti 575 is the leader now in class.
    - ray
    People are talking about the new 6", 7lb, air shock, Iron Horse MKIII. I've seen but not ridden one and it looks interesting. I think it's suspension design is similar to the the currently hyped Maestro but I believe it originated with the Schwinn Rocket 88 (Nice job Shred).

  32. #32
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    [QUOTE=artnshel]I understand the Supermoto to be over 10 lbs and to me that puts it in a different category.QUOTE]

    Not necessarily. Titus offers several different linkage & shock options. The long travel DH version is over 10, but the 5/6" comes in around 8.5 lbs.

  33. #33
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    36/DHX Combo In the Future

    Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Yeti is planning to come out with an Enduro something model with a 36/DHX combo soon. Check the Yeti boards. There's some talk of it over there.

  34. #34
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    [QUOTE=The Squeaky Wheel]
    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    I understand the Supermoto to be over 10 lbs and to me that puts it in a different category.QUOTE]

    Not necessarily. Titus offers several different linkage & shock options. The long travel DH version is over 10, but the 5/6" comes in around 8.5 lbs.
    I think the Supermoto is pretty sexy but at the 6" setting you are getting the same travel as the above discussed Yeti but with 2.5 extra pounds worth of strength. Personally I'm not that hard on bikes and would lean to a lighter frame for a given travel assuming the travel quality was roughly comparable.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    People are talking about the new 6", 7lb, air shock, Iron Horse MKIII. I've seen but not ridden one and it looks interesting. I think it's suspension design is similar to the the currently hyped Maestro but I believe it originated with the Schwinn Rocket 88 (Nice job Shred).
    MKiii = 5 inch travel. Although like the Hollowpoint, the DW designed suspension is probably a very buttery and plush 5 inch travel compared to any other that pedals nearly as well. The 575's extra 3/4 inch travel and 1 pound lighter weight are significant.

    I personally think the 575 has a great visual look. A 5 year defect warrantee from Yeti, a reputable manufacturor, is very impressive too.

    I'm still infatuated with the 575 demo ride. I haven't been so impressed with one ride since my Tracer demo ride 4 years ago. I'm coming down to earth gradually.

    My Tracer really does everything I want very well. But the 575's extra 2 inches of usable travel at the same weight or even lighter than my coil suspension Tracer is very tempting.

    And I can resist anything except temptation!

    - ray

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfiend
    Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Yeti is planning to come out with an Enduro something model with a 36/DHX combo soon. Check the Yeti boards. There's some talk of it over there.
    Enduro-20 is listed on Yeti site with a DHX AIR rear shock with the 36 fork, a 6 inch talas like fork w ith 20mm axle drop outs.

    What is a DHX AIR? (It doesn't sound like a coil shock).

    - ray

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel
    I think the Supermoto is pretty sexy but at the 6" setting you are getting the same travel as the above discussed Yeti but with 2.5 extra pounds worth of strength. Personally I'm not that hard on bikes and would lean to a lighter frame for a given travel assuming the travel quality was roughly comparable.
    It seems to me that there is a new crop of light long travel bikes and that seems to be the next trend. Nomad, Reign, ML8 can probably be set up at 30lbs with air shocks while giving you 6-6.5 inches of rear travel.

    I guess we're getting back to the Turner board discussion as to whether a 5" or 6" travel bike is more appropriate. I got a 5" bike that can probably handle a whole lot more than I can achieve, but the thought of having a 30lbs 6" travel bike is appealing in some situations.
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  38. #38
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    DHX air is set for release this fall.
    It features a reservoir like the standard DHX, but no spring.
    Will have adjustable platform, bottom-out, etc. like the standard DHX.
    There are several threads about the DHX air over on the Turner board.

  39. #39
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    DHX Air

    Need it!

    Nothing to see here.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    MKiii = 5 inch travel.
    - ray
    Oops

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I'm still infatuated with the 575 demo ride. I haven't been so impressed with one ride since my Tracer demo ride 4 years ago. I'm coming down to earth gradually.

    My Tracer really does everything I want very well. But the 575's extra 2 inches of usable travel at the same weight or even lighter than my coil suspension Tracer is very tempting.

    And I can resist anything except temptation!

    - ray
    You've excitement has got me looking for a way to at least try a 575 too.

  41. #41
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    SB is even coil approved now

    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    I actually asked that very question to Titus at Sea Otter. Will you make a 6" version of the ML, and their answer was the SuperMoto... To me, they haven't replaced the Quasi-Moto in the lightish 6" trail bike category.

    Nomad could fill that niche.
    And with coil shock, it's 5.5" of travel. Is that extra 1/4 to 1/2" really that significant?
    Or is it b/c it's too light? They take a pretty good amount of abuse, or at least my '02 did...
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    DHX air is set for release this fall.
    It features a reservoir like the standard DHX, but no spring.
    Will have adjustable platform, bottom-out, etc. like the standard DHX.
    There are several threads about the DHX air over on the Turner board.

    Hey Squeaky, has Darren mentioned this shock at all as a good alternative for the DHX on a Pack since we can use a RP3?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Yep, still on Tracer. It felt like travel on the Tracer was shorter than before after getting off the Moto-lite and especially after the 575.

    That 575 was very impressive. Not quite as refined in pedaling or braking as the Moto-lite or my Tracer, but smooth and well balanced and just as light. It would be very versatile to swap to heavy wheels and use for a shuttle bike. Or lighten the wheels and use for a great all day trail bike. It really climbed steep loose dirt very easily, and was very confidence inspiring downhill using a Talas fork. A better fork like a Pike or AM1 on it would be awesome.

    Now I'm really spoiled for a longer travel lightweight AND durable trail bike! The RP3 works just fine for longer travel. I'll need to research if the 575 can use a DHX, a 5th Element coil should work fine with the falling rate linkage.

    What other 6-pound frame with air shock, near 6-inch travel bikes are there?

    1. The Ellsworth Id is awkward handling, unreliable, and way over priced for less than 575 ride quality.
    2. The Intense 5.5 EVP qualifies in excellent design, but is steeper steering geometry and way more expensive.
    3. The lightweight Prophet and Cake have monopivot suspension that are higher and less optimized for best pedaling when climbing rough and loose trails compared to the 575.
    4. Having demoed the Marin Wolf Ridge, it out performs the Yeti in suspension quality and versatility (quick 4 to 6 inch travel adjustment). The Wolf Ridge frame price is even less at under $1000, but it's over a pound heavier with the same shock and flexier.

    Are there any other 6-pound, near 6-inch travel frames? If not the Yeti 575 is the leader now in class.

    - ray
    First off. Great review on the 575 and ML. I was wondering if you rode a Blur and would the new long travel blur be similar to your 5.5?

  44. #44
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    Just for your viewing pleasure

    few pics of my new 575
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  45. #45
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    Switchblade

    Quote Originally Posted by dbabuser
    And with coil shock, it's 5.5" of travel. Is that extra 1/4 to 1/2" really that significant?
    Or is it b/c it's too light? They take a pretty good amount of abuse, or at least my '02 did...
    Yea, the Switchblade frame only with RP3, at $2000, is $600 more than the 575/RP3. It's about the same weight. The SB has steeper and quicker steering, more tight trail lower speed XC geometry, and a much steeper seat tube by 1.5 degrees for easy long seated climbing without lowering the fork a lot on the 575 or pushing the seat forward of center an inch for a similar seated postion over the pedals.

    I don't feel that a Horst link with over 4 inches travel has any significant pedaling advantage over a lower monopivot (not below small ring chain height) with the same travel, they both require some platform addition for more efficient pedaling. The Switchblade longer travel 5.5 - 5.6 options have a rising rate shock link leverage and need more platform damping than the 575's falling rate linkage near sag turning to rising rate including air ramp up deeper in travel.

    The Switchblade more rising rate suspension would adapt to coil better then the 575. The 575 would need rising rate damping like the 5th Element to use coil.

    And the Switchblade's rather optimum rising rate floating brake has a slight rear tire traction advantage compared to the 575's slightly more linear rate firming braking geometry. But the difference is very small in rear braking geometry and the 1.25 degree slacker 575 steering makes hard braking more stable and helps keep the rear tire down on the ground noticeably better with the same fork travel, stem and handle bar height. The slow speed braking should be very similar and then the 575 better at higher speeds and hard braking.

    It's been 4 years since I demoed the Switchblade on South Mountain in Tempe with 4.25 inch travel, and it's changed a little with steeper steering geometry. And a platform adjustable RP3 with a 5.5 Switchblade should be pretty awesome. Back then I bought the Tracer because the links could be adjusted to handle many ways including the Turner XCE (now Burner/Flux) and Switchblade or RacerX and the Intense machine and finish design work is a step or two more refined than any other in the suspension bike leaders.

    It's all good. The 575 and Moto-Lite stand out with a much lower price value combined with near equivalent quality with the best in low weight longer travel trail bike class. These bikes that can be built with XT quality components to 27 - 28 pounds with 5 - 6 inch travel.

    - ray

  46. #46
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    Not that this would matter to me or anyone because the 575 is made overseas, but isnt the new Titus offering mentioned here the only out-sourced of the Titus line? Does anyone know where its made?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix
    Not that this would matter to me or anyone because the 575 is made overseas, but isnt the new Titus offering mentioned here the only out-sourced of the Titus line? Does anyone know where its made?
    I believe Kinesis makes it in Portland, OR.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumstix
    Not that this would matter to me or anyone because the 575 is made overseas, but isnt the new Titus offering mentioned here the only out-sourced of the Titus line? Does anyone know where its made?
    Huh? Where is the 575 made?

  49. #49
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    Pedal kickback comparison?

    Nice review, thanks!

    You didn't mention if one or the other suffered more from pedal kickback as the suspension compresses.

    I don't know if many people actually care about it, but I find it irritating to have my cadence interrupted during technical climbs. I don't have much time in on Horst bikes, but can feel it on most low-pivot simple swingarm designs.

    Depending on the positioning and length of the SSs and upper link, a Horst design could behave much differently or nearly identically to a simple swingarm, in this regard.

    Any thoughts?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.F.L.
    Nice review, thanks!

    You didn't mention if one or the other suffered more from pedal kickback as the suspension compresses.

    I don't know if many people actually care about it, but I find it irritating to have my cadence interrupted during technical climbs. I don't have much time in on Horst bikes, but can feel it on most low-pivot simple swingarm designs.

    Depending on the positioning and length of the SSs and upper link, a Horst design could behave much differently or nearly identically to a simple swingarm, in this regard.

    Any thoughts?
    i rode a specialized SJ FSR last year and now have the 575 and i really do not notice pedal kickback except on very rare occasions. why? i don't really know but there also is no brake jack issues either...going from the horst link bike to a single pivot has not been a negative at all to me, in fact in think the 575 is a better climber for me..
    BBZ

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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybobzia
    i rode a specialized SJ FSR last year and now have the 575 and i really do not notice pedal kickback except on very rare occasions. why? i don't really know but there also is no brake jack issues either...going from the horst link bike to a single pivot has not been a negative at all to me, in fact in think the 575 is a better climber for me..
    No noticable extra pedal kickback when hitting sharp bumps with either the 575 or Moto-Lite.

    The 575 is smoother in bumps due to more travel and softer spring and more vertical path near sag, and the 575 bobbed more than the Moto-lite when pedaling on smooth flats but not with any excess, both don't bob at all while very steep seated climbing in the lowest gears. The Moto-lite is a little snappier accelerating, partly due to shorter travel and partly due to the tighter curving Horst link path.

    - ray

  52. #52
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    The 575 enduro 20 will come with a dhx shock and a fox 36 forx

    For the frame size i am 6.1 and i ride a large frame 120 stem and thomson seat back
    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Yeti 575 & Titus Moto-Lite demos at Sea Otter

    Sea Otter was more awesome than ever. Faster riders, more very pretty girls (faster too), better course designs, and more new bike innovations than ever before.

    This was the first time I spent any time on the RP3 shock. It's a very nice air shock with three levels of platform, almost none (very coil like), moderate platform (softer than Propedal), and firm (firmer than Propedal, but appropriate for climbing with longer travel older suspension designs). There was no lockout setting on the RP3's I rode.

    I prefer coil shocks but coil would be impossible to set up for many rider weights and size for a demo bike. So could only imagine the added buttery feel of a coil DHX on the bikes I demoed.

    First ride was the Titus Moto-Lite set up with 5-inch travel. The Moto-Lite is very light, 6 pounds for frame and RP3 air shock. It also has a 4-inch travel setting at the shock bolt mount to the swing link, for more efficient climbing and sport racing. I test rode a medium that felt like a good fit for my 6'1. I?m used to steeper steering and seat geometry on my large 24 inch top tube Intense Tracer set up in a steep adjustment for much climbing. And the slacker 69 or 70 degree steering made the Moto-lite feel stable with about a 1/2 inch shorter top tube. Handling felt quick but not too quick for 5 inch travel, designed to handle downhill without easy over the bar crashes. The Moto-lite designer Chris Coclius was there and said it was designed to also work with a coil shock if desired. Chris has lost a lot of weight, I barely recognized him. Congratulations! if you are reading this.)

    The Moto-Lite pedaled like butter when seated in through smaller to medium bumps with a moderate amount of bob with the RP3 set to lowest platform. When standing while pedaling it firmed up slightly for a very snappy acceleration and climbing feel compared to most other longer travel trail bikes. The 5.5 VPP is more acceleration efficient but relaxes less when climbing in bumps and stalls the pedal cadence more than the Moto-lite.

    Braking was very stable and tracked the ground better than the floating brake IC geometry would imply, When rear braking only without front brake, the rear suspension extends mildly like most Horst links into a lighter spring range for very good bump compliance and traction. The 575 monopivot Yeti I rode had less free extension when rear braking (but nearly as good braking behavior). This evidence shows that IC mapping of leverage is not the tell-all for braking behavior.

    There is a rear tire size limitation of the Moto-Lite to 2.25 Chris said they are addressing for future production runs to allow 2.4 sizes to fit. Fit and finish is at the highest level that is typical of all Titus bikes.

    The Yeti 575 masters monopivot (very near) 6-inch travel trail bike design. Its very light, a 6-pound frame with RP3 air shock. It pedals with surprisingly little bob with the RP3 shock set with least platform damping, when seated or standing due to initial falling rate shock linkage, climbing steep loose inclines like a goat. Pedaling while climbing felt identical to the Ellsworth Truth, very buttery with little squat, excellent for 6-inch travel (only OK if for 4 inch travel compared to the many better climbers than the Truth.). The 575 climbs better with much less squat and bob than the Id. The Moto-Lite pedaled with a bit more snap but was not as plush as the 575, probably due mostly to travel differences. The factory rep that set up the demo for me said that the 575 is warranted with duel-crown use. So the bike could be set up for a heavy-duty use bike. This was surprising to me given the very light 6-pound weight of the frame, I doubt it would hold up to massive hucking, but would hold up to very rough big drop downhill use. The bike felt very low-flex.

    The 575 braking is very stable and modulation of the rear brake is easy without lockup. There are a few better rear-braking bikes, but not by much.

    The large felt stretched out for me, having a 24+ inch top tube. At 6'1 I'd get a medium for trail bike use for more nimble handling that is still very stable. A very tall rider about 6'4+ would fit the large 575 well. The steering was similar to the Moto-Lite with 69-degree head angle and about 73-degree seat. The BB height was fairly low at 13.5 for so much travel, but since it didn't pedal bob much that should be fine for good pedaling clearance.

    Looking at the total package, including frame- w/shock-only pricing barely over $1,000, both bikes are superstars in the trail bike world now. They are light at 6 pounds. Few $2,000 frames are as light with as much travel. The 5-Spot is 1/2 pound heavier with the same shock. Having ridden the also very light Intense 5.5 EVP and if money were no object, I'd choose the 575 for it's superior big bump pedaling leverage compliance, unless I wanted to race too because the VPP is quicker. Perhaps I could get used to the stiffening VPP action when climbing in rocks, but add the price difference and the more extreme use longer travel 1 degree slacker steering geometry, the Yeti wins my choice.

    There is only one longer travel bike I'm still very curious to test ride now, the Iron Horse Mkiii, but at over a pound heavier, the most efficient DW-Link pedaling may not be enough to surpass the 575 in all around climbing and handling. Rumor is that the Mkiii will be lightened up next year to compete better with these long travel trail bikes that climb like they have half the travel.

    - ray

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