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  1. #1
    Wyoming mtn. Biker
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    Tubeless tire questions

    I'd like to upgrade my wheels and tires to save weight and wanted to give tubeless a try. Please give me some help with the following questions..........

    1. Are all rims tubless compatiable?
    2. Are all tires tubless compatiable?
    3. Why do some tires say tubeless and others say tubeless and UST compatiable?
    4. Does the UST (system universal tubeless) only apply to Mavic wheels?

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
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    Answers.....

    Quote Originally Posted by wyo_biker
    I'd like to upgrade my wheels and tires to save weight and wanted to give tubeless a try. Please give me some help with the following questions..........

    1. Are all rims tubless compatiable?
    2. Are all tires tubless compatiable?
    3. Why do some tires say tubeless and others say tubeless and UST compatiable?
    4. Does the UST (system universal tubeless) only apply to Mavic wheels?

    Thanks for your help.

    First, going tubeless won't save weight.

    1. No
    2. No
    3. UST is an acronym for a proposed standardized system. Some tires and wheels are UST compliant and some aren't.
    4. No but they may have been the company that developed the standard so they're the only wheel mfg that can have the UST designation. I don't remember the history of the UST designation off the top of my head.

  3. #3
    Wyoming mtn. Biker
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    Thanks,

    If going tubeless won't save weight, what is the big advantage to going tubeless?

  4. #4
    ride like you stole it
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    lower tire pressure that gives you a better ride and traction. very low risk of pinch flats.

    tubeless is really convenient and nice but if you have any tire/rim issues during your ride it can be a real hassle.
    I lubed my disc brakes because they squeaked.
    Man was that fun to work out

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyo_biker
    Thanks,

    If going tubeless won't save weight, what is the big advantage to going tubeless?
    First going tubless can save weight if you use a "ghetto" system, or stan's system. UST rims and tires are heavier which results in not much if any weight savings.

    The big advantage of going tubeless is that you get less flats and can run lower air pressure without getting flats.

    If you were looking at saving weight by going tubeless, look at the wheelsets offered by Stan.
    http://www.notubes.com

    Also it may be possible to make your existing wheels tubeless by using a Stan's kit, or "ghetto" method.

  6. #6
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    You know what they say about opinions, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyo_biker
    Thanks,

    If going tubeless won't save weight, what is the big advantage to going tubeless?

    In my opinion, the only real advantage to going tubeless is you are less resistant to thorn punctures than with a tubed wheelset because you're running Stan's, Slime or any other form of sealant.

    Most weight comparisons (and subsequent weight savings argument) neglect to include the weight of the sealant. Basically, you replace the weight of the tube with the weight of the sealant. You may gain some savings if you go with a home made tubeless system but it's not that great a gain. With a UST system, the tires sidewalls are thicker. So you lose the weight of the tube but you gain the weight of the tire (and sealant).

  7. #7
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    The Stans system does take into account the weight of the sealant, but to me that is not a significant advantage.

    The biggest advantages that I have personally experienced are 1) Flats being almost eliminated and 2) Being able to run 7-10psi lower in my tires w/o the risk of pinch flatting.

    I have used true UST in the past and currently run "Ghetto" which I actually like better due to reduced expenses and much more tire selection.

  8. #8
    Wyoming mtn. Biker
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    Thanks for all the help.

    So, I guess the answer to my original question would be yes, using "ghetto" system, or stan's system, almost any wheel could be run tubeless, using most any tire? Correct?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyo_biker
    Thanks for all the help.

    So, I guess the answer to my original question would be yes, using "ghetto" system, or stan's system, almost any wheel could be run tubeless, using most any tire? Correct?
    Yes you are correct. And the keyword there is "almost". If you have a certain combination in mind, probably post up in the wheel and tire forum for opinion on how well it works with a tubeless setup.

    As a followup just so numbers are clear. The weight of a standard tube is about 200g. The weight of 3oz of sealant is approx 85g.

  10. #10
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    Sweet...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    The Stans system does take into account the weight of the sealant, but to me that is not a significant advantage.

    The biggest advantages that I have personally experienced are 1) Flats being almost eliminated and 2) Being able to run 7-10psi lower in my tires w/o the risk of pinch flatting.

    I have used true UST in the past and currently run "Ghetto" which I actually like better due to reduced expenses and much more tire selection.
    That means I could run my psi at 20-23 psi with tubeless? Awesome! How do you keep the tires from rolling off the rim at pressures this low? I run around 30 psi on tubed. I don't have a problem with pinch flats. And for clarity, I've pinch flatted tubeless. It's a pretty expensive fix.

  11. #11
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    Clarity...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldskoolbiker
    Yes you are correct. And the keyword there is "almost". If you have a certain combination in mind, probably post up in the wheel and tire forum for opinion on how well it works with a tubeless setup.

    As a followup just so numbers are clear. The weight of a standard tube is about 200g. The weight of 3oz of sealant is approx 85g.
    Since we're being clear, that's a difference of 115 small paper clips.

  12. #12
    ride like you stole it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    That means I could run my psi at 20-23 psi with tubeless? Awesome! How do you keep the tires from rolling off the rim at pressures this low? I run around 30 psi on tubed. I don't have a problem with pinch flats. And for clarity, I've pinch flatted tubeless. It's a pretty expensive fix.
    roll-outs are one of the main problems with going tubeless, If the be is seated and sealed with something like stans its kind of surprising how much side pressure it'll take to roll the tires off, in fact its only happened to me once in the past two years of tubeless with pressures around 10-20 psi.
    I lubed my disc brakes because they squeaked.
    Man was that fun to work out

  13. #13
    Wyoming mtn. Biker
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    Thanks to everyone for all your help!

    It is much appreciated.

  14. #14
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    That means I could run my psi at 20-23 psi with tubeless? Awesome! How do you keep the tires from rolling off the rim at pressures this low? I run around 30 psi on tubed. I don't have a problem with pinch flats. And for clarity, I've pinch flatted tubeless. It's a pretty expensive fix.
    Well, I had to run 35psi to prevent pinch flatting and I run 25-28psi with the exact same tires with a ghetto tubeless set up. Also, the ghetto setup puts a seal between the liner (split tube) and the tire so you do not get the burping issues that are common with running standard tires w/stans on a UST rim. I use a wire beaded tire (as stated before, weight savings is not the reason I use tubeless) and the WTB rims I use have a very good bead lock.

    If you like tubes then good for you, but save the smarta$$ remarks for someone else OK

  15. #15
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    Golly...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    Well, I had to run 35psi to prevent pinch flatting and I run 25-28psi with the exact same tires with a ghetto tubeless set up. Also, the ghetto setup puts a seal between the liner (split tube) and the tire so you do not get the burping issues that are common with running standard tires w/stans on a UST rim. I use a wire beaded tire (as stated before, weight savings is not the reason I use tubeless) and the WTB rims I use have a very good bead lock.

    If you like tubes then good for you, but save the smarta$$ remarks for someone else OK
    I was repsonding to your very generalized statement that tubeless allows you to run your psi 7-10 pounds below whatever pressure you're running now.

    If I run 7-10 pounds below where I run now (30 psi), I roll off the rim in corners, regardless of whether I'm running Stan's, UST or tubes. It has nothing to do with the seal and everything to do with the sidewall rolling underneath the rim.

    I'll stop offering smart ass remarks when you stop offering generalized comments like "Also, the ghetto setup puts a seal between the liner (split tube) and the tire so you do not get the burping issues that are common with running standard tires w/stans on a UST rim." If the tire rolls off the rim, you'll get burping.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyo_biker
    Thanks for all the help.

    So, I guess the answer to my original question would be yes, using "ghetto" system, or stan's system, almost any wheel could be run tubeless, using most any tire? Correct?
    heres the lowdown
    UST means the tire or wheel will hold air without sealant, and rims and tires have special lip/ bead that locks together

    TLR, 2Bliss, Tubeless and tubeless ready are all tires meant to be used with sealant on rims that have a UST type lip, and some type of tape to seal the spoke holes

    Ghetto tubeless is just about any tire or rim that you can get to seal and stay together

    UST tires are usually heaviest because they have an extra layer of rubber to seal them

    all tires can be used on all rims

    For best results I recommend the tubeless ready type tires with UST or tubeless type wheels

  17. #17
    Older & Faster...downhill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    Since we're being clear, that's a difference of 115 small paper clips.
    In Weight Weenie world that's HUGE. But for most it's no big deal. Stick with tubes.
    My 32lb AM rig has tubes. 18lb WW rig, not tubes.

  18. #18
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    I've been running tubeless for the past five years. I have done it all: ghetto tubeless, stans conversion and UST tires with UST Mavick rims .

    The setup I finally settled on is this: Regular (non-UST) tires on UST rims with Stans sealant. IMO, even running a completely UST system is worthless without some type of sealant......I think the sealant is what makes the whole tubeless thing actually work with the least amount of headaches.

    My front wheel is a regular Kenda Nevegal on a Mavic 819 UST rim. My rear is a regular Kenda Small-block 8 on a Mavic Crosstrail UST rim.

    I need to keep the psi in the back around 30 psi or greater or I will experience the "burps" on the turns. The front can go lower, but I also keep at at 30 or greater because I dont' want to damage my rim....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by osmarandsara
    I've been running tubeless for the past five years. I have done it all: ghetto tubeless, stans conversion and UST tires with UST Mavick rims .

    The setup I finally settled on is this: Regular (non-UST) tires on UST rims with Stans sealant. IMO, even running a completely UST system is worthless without some type of sealant......I think the sealant is what makes the whole tubeless thing actually work with the least amount of headaches.

    My front wheel is a regular Kenda Nevegal on a Mavic 819 UST rim. My rear is a regular Kenda Small-block 8 on a Mavic Crosstrail UST rim.

    I need to keep the psi in the back around 30 psi or greater or I will experience the "burps" on the turns. The front can go lower, but I also keep at at 30 or greater because I dont' want to damage my rim....
    maybe try a "tubeless" type tire, with the locking bead it may not burp at lower pressures

  20. #20
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    so what happens when you get a flat with tubless on the trail. Do you have to put a tube in there? Or does the sealant close the hole, and you pump it back up? I just got a new bike with tubeless wheels, and I needed some some mud tires, so I got tubeless to try it out. But I dont' know what is going to happen if I get a flat.

  21. #21
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    UST means that the bead of the tire and the rim are built to a similar standard, much more precise than most tires. It forms a tight seal that allows you to run without tubes. TLR, 2bliss, etc. means that the beads are still UST spec but have thinner sidewalls than true UST tires.

    IMO the biggest benefit of tubeless isn't running lower pressure, but the lower rolling resistance. Tubeless just feels like a smoother ride, even at the same pressure.

    (Oh, and true weight weenies still run tubes, as it's often lighter than tubeless if you use superlight tubes.)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlepito
    so what happens when you get a flat with tubless on the trail. Do you have to put a tube in there? Or does the sealant close the hole, and you pump it back up? I just got a new bike with tubeless wheels, and I needed some some mud tires, so I got tubeless to try it out. But I dont' know what is going to happen if I get a flat.
    depends, if the hole isnt too big or a ripped sidewall then the sealant will seal. most people around here carry a spare tube just in case

    http://www.notubes.com/movie_newdemo.php

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