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  1. #1
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    Specialized EPIC Comp or Motobecane Fantom DS Pro

    Hey, I finally got my wife to let me get a new bike. I test drove a 2008 Specialized EPIC Comp at my LBS. They have this bike for $1,800 and feels very good. It has the SRAM derailleurs which feel great. I am upgrading froma TREK 3700 and want a bike that will last me a while as well as let me rip the trails at Markham, South Florida. So the only other bike that I am considering, and please don't jump me, is the Motobecane Fantom DS PRO. I don't know what it is, maybe the components on the bike or the fact that I have only found one complaint about the frame, that makes me consider this bike for $300 less. I know Specialized is cosnidered to be a superb brand, considering that was also what I mostly saw in the olympics, but.......... Can someone shine a light please. I think I will be purchasing the bike tomorrow.
    Thanks
    Last edited by ongo; 11-29-2008 at 10:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Pacifist Guerilla
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    In this case its basically whatever one you prefer i would say, but the specialized is a little better. Unless you can test the moto, go for the spesh if it feels good.

  3. #3
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    See below...

  4. #4
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    Haven't had many replies but might as well keep things documented in case it might help someone in the future.
    Test drove the EPIC and it feels great. Very fast bike, light, and the SRAM derailleur couldn't be more precise. The brain seems to work pretty well even though I only went up the curve in the LBS parking lot. The bike feels right. Really leaning towards the EPIC, will try to find someone with the Motobecane to test ride. It really sucks that I can't test drive my bike before I buy it. It's not like I'm spending $1.

  5. #5
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    Go for it

    Man......If you can find a bike that feels right, Go for it! In the long run a bike that feels good from a lbs and a quality manufacturer you will not miss the 300 clams. The Epic is a top notch xc race rig, is there other choices I might make, maybe but I am not the one riding it (of coarse I am considering one). But like I said before if it feels good go for it

  6. #6
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    I have an Epic. I love it. Love it love it love it love it.
    :wq

  7. #7
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    Here's my take....

    A buddy has had his Epic for 3-4 years now, and still loves it; he raced 2-1/2 seasons on it, and the only reason he's looking for something else is because of his aggressive/abusive riding style, he believes he's worn out the frame.

    I had a Motobecane in '03; I'm a much less aggressive rider, but 1-1/2 times my buddy's size. My Moto lasted just over 1 year, the frame cracked in one place (seatmast) and broke clean thru in another (weld @ seat-tube/BB). The factory ignored me, as did the online dealer. $700 down the crapper.
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  8. #8
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    Motobecan has a lifetime warranty.. as long as you kept your receipt, and are willing to ship the frame back to them they will cover you.....


    In this case the Moto's parts spec Sh*ts and i mean a juicy turd all over the 08 Epic for less money. I thought of a way to point this out nicely but the 08 epics don't even come remotely close to the MB spec.

    Tho if you are hell bent on getting an epic these guys have the best price
    http://scooty-cycles.mybisi.com/prod...08_339420.html

  9. #9
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    If Motobecane had been worth a sh** to deal with, I'd at least have gotten an ANSWER from them, if only to say, "You need to..." do whatever to get something done. But, nothing. Not about to deal again.

    Parts don't make the bike, BTW; the frame is the heart of the bike. If the Moto parts are that much better than the Epic for less money, you have to wonder (at least you SHOULD) what corners they cut in the frame. Now, if it was a made-in-the-USA Yeti, that would be less of an indicator. But both the Spec & Moto are Taiwan babies.

    One last note: Pacific Cycle puts a lifetime warranty on the Wal-Fart Mongooses, too; does that make them worth a sh**?
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  10. #10
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    While i feel bad that you were unable to get the service others have received, You might want to look at why an answer was not afforded to you. Maybe it would be worth another try.

    The higher end moto frames are welded in the same factory as 90% of all bikes we buy. My guess is no corners were cut.

    If you ever worked at a Cannondale or Specialized shop and saw the dealers markup % you would not be singing the same song.

    We are arguing about 2 bikes, one that has entry level components with garbage in house rear shock and marginal entry level front fork and another with top of line / better in general components.

  11. #11
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    Frankly, components and fork aren't going to make the bike for the guy. He should ride both (if he can ride a moto) and pick which he likes the best.

    To compare the two, and just to state it for the OP, the bikes are pretty different. Shifters and derailleurs aren't the only pieces that make a bike. The geometry of the bikes are different, more travel on the moto, which may be good or bad depending on the riding style. Again, ride the bikes - that's what is important. Additionally, consider the savings you may experience from buying a bike through a local shop. A bike may be $300 less online, but I know with both my mtb and my road bike, I've saved hundreds on services and even received discounts on accessories and parts by being a loyal customer to a good shop.

    We all love our bikes, but we should consider the needs of the OP, especially in the beginners forum.
    :wq

  12. #12
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    I am coming from a HT and a big concern is power loss due to dual suspension, which is why I am considering the Specialized EPIC with the brain on the rear suspension.
    My riding style could be described as mainly power for the climbs where I really like the challenge of having enough strength and having technique and trail knowledge to actually make it to the top but I want control when I do drops to get that adrenaline rush of actually making through the drop. I feel that the hardtail does not give me enough stability to make the tougher drops as I would like. I also want to give my legs and back a break when going over too many roots and bumps (harshe terrain).
    From what my riding style what do you think would suit me better?

  13. #13
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    I've ridden my Epic for two years now, and it does climb fantastic, however if you're riding drops, and steep trail obstacles it might not be the right bike. The bottom bracket is pretty low, so you have to pay very close attention to where your pedals are in relation to rocks or other obstacles sticking out of the ground. The seating position puts you upright and forward, so when you go off drops, or down steep rock faces, where you are positioned makes things seem much steeper and more difficult than they actually are (at least in my experience). For example, I rode a few rock faces on a Canondale Prophet the first time I rode that bike and I'd be hesitant to even try them on my Epic after two years. Additionally, though you can tune the brain on the Epic to make it more plush, it's still a very stiff bike. I never feel like I'm losing traction over bumps, but I sure feel every bump out there.

    Maybe something that climbs well but has a bit more slack in the geometry would suit you better. The stumpjumper might be a good option, but for similar money, you maybe should check out th Canondale Rize. If I were buying a new bike tomorrow, it would be the Rize.
    :wq

  14. #14
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    ongo,

    The front are rear shock on the moto have different settings to help it to lock out on a climb d the bike can be set to 3 - 4- 5" travel. Considering your price range without a doubt the moto is better for you. If you prefer the name brand by all means buy the inferior bike and spend more money.

    I have said all i can, if you have any questions and want an unbiased opinion about any other bikes you can pm me.

    -Dave

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotboostedvr6
    ongo,

    The front are rear shock on the moto have different settings to help it to lock out on a climb d the bike can be set to 3 - 4- 5" travel. Considering your price range without a doubt the moto is better for you. If you prefer the name brand by all means buy the inferior bike and spend more money.

    I have said all i can, if you have any questions and want an unbiased opinion about any other bikes you can pm me.

    -Dave
    you funny
    :wq

  16. #16
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    Considering the fact that I Ride a $3,400 Trek 08 Fuel EX9 and I am recommending a Moto bike to this guy should show at least that i can be unbiased.

    You ride 2 "S" bikes
    2007 Specialized Epic Comp
    2006 Specialized Allez Triple

    what does that say for you?

    I could also get into how The Big "S" feels that rear triangles are not part of the frame because they are a moving part and are not covered beyond a year by the "Frame" warranty.
    Last edited by gotboostedvr6; 12-05-2008 at 01:59 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotboostedvr6
    Considering the fact that I Ride a $3,400 Trek 08 Fuel EX9 and I am recommending a Moto bike to this guy should show at least that i can be unbiased.

    You ride 2 "S" bikes
    2007 Specialized Epic Comp
    2006 Specialized Allez Triple

    what does that say for you?

    I could also get into how The Big "S" feels that rear triangles are not part of the frame because they are a moving part and are not covered beyond a year by the "Frame" warranty.
    Slow down there, turbo.

    1. I don't have the Allez anymore. I replaced it with a Tarmac. It's a fantastic bike.
    2. So far, you've recommended only the Moto, even before he mentioned the kind of riding he does. You've been extremely aggressive and immature throughout the thread (for example saying how the component spec "shits a juicy turd" on the Epic, which it really doesn't), and you've not relented a single bit about the moto.
    3. I think from my posting in this thread, you'll see that I attempted to find out what his needs are, then when I found out what he wants to do, I recommended against the Epic and instead recommended an S bike and a non-S bike that may be more suited to his needs. I think this behavior says more about me than the fact that I happen to have two S bikes. Indeed, as I said before, if I could buy another mountain bike tomorrow, it would be a Rize and I may buy one next year.
    4. I haven't asked him this yet, but you're also not considering that some people may prefer to buy a bike from an LBS as opposed to purchasing from a direct bikes dealer online, with no brick and mortar establishment. Additionally, they may prefer the benefits they generally receive from an LBS in the service department, help with the bike, discounts on accessories, or other things an IBD can't provide like an LBS can. While it may not be important to him, you haven't even considered it and haven't even mentioned it.
    5. I don't really care what kind of bike you ride, and couldn't be less concerned with how much it costs

    Take a deep breath and calm down.
    :wq

  18. #18
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    1. Don't care tarmac is still a "S" bike
    2. I'm aggressive sorry but thats the way i am. Considering that fact that the Moto can be adjusted 3-5" asking this questin would be a waste B/C the bike can pretty much do any kind of Fast XC to comfortable XC.
    3. see #1
    4. He obviously is considering the online purchase, (hence the topic)
    5. my point is i ride a pricy name brand bike so i know what you get from going this route, but i still strongly recommend buying a lesser brand name because of the quality and component spec.

    see #2

  19. #19
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    [QUOTE=gotboostedvr6]While i feel bad that you were unable to get the service others have received, You might want to look at why an answer was not afforded to you. Maybe it would be worth another try.

    The higher end moto frames are welded in the same factory as 90% of all bikes we buy. My guess is no corners were cut.
    QUOTE]

    I know for a FACT that corners were cut; in addition to the breakage problems, I traced the source of the breaks to torsion in the frame...caused by a swingarm that was so poorly constructed, it was over 10mm out of line to one side.

    I put the parts on other bikes, tore down the frame, and replaced it with a better one 4 years ago. That repl. frame did well for 2 years, I upgraded & built the old one back up for my brother-in-law, and have 2 years on the upgrade, with no end in sight on it. To even CONSIDER Moto again would be a standing broad jump BACKWARDS....

    (Not even going to engage on the rest of your post....)
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  20. #20
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    Spec. vs Moto?? Spec.= real bike co. nation wide network of bike shops to sevice/warrany you. Moto= mail order. cheap frame no backing from shop. Have a problom and you are on your own. If frame does break you will need to strip and ship back to moto and pay to strip and rebuild. With Spec. thay has out side rep that will look at warranty and order what you need. And a good dealer will strip and re build for no charg. I dont sell Spec. I sell Giant and Trek but I will say for only $300 diff I would go with a world class company and a world class bike witch is Specialized...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambo2166
    Spec. vs Moto?? Spec.= real bike co. nation wide network of bike shops to sevice/warrany you. Moto= mail order. cheap frame no backing from shop. Have a problom and you are on your own. If frame does break you will need to strip and ship back to moto and pay to strip and rebuild. With Spec. thay has out side rep that will look at warranty and order what you need. And a good dealer will strip and re build for no charg. I dont sell Spec. I sell Giant and Trek but I will say for only $300 diff I would go with a world class company and a world class bike witch is Specialized...
    Specialized makes good bikes
    Motobecane makes good bikes
    Many models of Specialized and Moto are made in the same factories
    Motobecane does not bring ANY models from China; not something that can be
    said about many brands
    Dealer support is closer for most buyers of Specialized; however Motobecane stands
    behind every bike sold
    Frames used on Motobecane bikes are not cheap - in fact, some are amoung the
    finest frames made in Taiwan by factories that build for most high priced brands. Moto Ti
    frames cost more to build in Hardtails than Most FS Frames cost to build.

    We sell out of Fantom DS PRO everytime we get them; much quicker than we can get more. Fantom Team sells out even quicker and we never are able to keep them in stock all year long.

    The OP should buy what he feels comfortable with; one downside to buying the Moto is limited stores have them to test ride. Most test rides are short and tell the rider little; and most magazine reveiws are based on very short rides. DirtRag did test this Moto DS frame on several short races and a 24 hour race -- very long detailed experience for a magazine test: http://www.dirtragmag.com/print/arti...=stuff_reviews

    I think both the Fantom DS Pro and Fantom Team will continue to sell out quicker than we can get supply. {Although component spec improve each year; we have sold these 2 proven models with the same frame for 5 years} These bikes are priced way below prices on any equally equipped bikes that I know of.

    The great thing is: lots of choices in bikes today and in how and where to buy them. It is a fantastic time for cyclists.

  22. #22
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    All I have to say is that is one hell of a deal on that Epic.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GPRider08
    All I have to say is that is one hell of a deal on that Epic.
    I have no idea what the 2008 Specs are on an Epic Comp - but if they are the same as the 2009 bike; then for $1800 it is a very good deal {infact, if you can get 33% off list in a bike shop you can count on the deal being good}

  24. #24
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    Actually, I was talking about the price this online dealer is selling the '08 Epic for:
    http://scooty-cycles.mybisi.com/prod...08_339420.html

    At that price point, I'm considering it myself.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GPRider08
    Actually, I was talking about the price this online dealer is selling the '08 Epic for:
    http://scooty-cycles.mybisi.com/prod...08_339420.html

    At that price point, I'm considering it myself.
    I hope you're not seriously considering buying from that site. You'll never see a bike if you place an order.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compton
    I hope you're not seriously considering buying from that site. You'll never see a bike if you place an order.
    You're right. I looked into it after posting that comment. It doesn't seem legitimate. No contact info other than an email address.

  27. #27
    I'm SUCH a square....
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Specialized makes good bikes
    Motobecane makes good bikes
    Many models of Specialized and Moto are made in the same factories
    Motobecane does not bring ANY models from China; not something that can be
    said about many brands
    Dealer support is closer for most buyers of Specialized; however Motobecane stands
    behind every bike sold
    Frames used on Motobecane bikes are not cheap - in fact, some are amoung the
    finest frames made in Taiwan by factories that build for most high priced brands. Moto Ti
    frames cost more to build in Hardtails than Most FS Frames cost to build.
    Sure Spec makes good bikes; they're not my personal pref, though.
    Motobecane, based on my empirical experience, do NOT. Same factory or not, I've seen the results of different assembly lines from the same factory -- might as well be separate countries. (15000 -- yes, the number is correct -- builds tell me that.)
    See my last post above you; it details the problems with my Moto (bought from YOU, btw, and you didn't do sh** for me either in '04), and then you can try and tell me they're good quality. I will call BS til the day I die.
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  28. #28
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    To begin the scooty-cycles site seems very weird. They informed me that they only accept wire transfers or money orders before the bike gets shipped. Hey, it might be a real deal but I am not willing to be the guinea pig with $1,200.
    I really sucks that I could not test the Moto, but instead I tested a Stumpjumper and an EPIC.
    My review as a fairly new guy to the beautiful sport of mountain biking:
    The Stumpjumper receives great reviews from everyone as far as I was able to read. However, I did find that some people found it to be too much if it can actually be considered that. In fact for me, it was too much. The suspension is great and again the SRAM gears are an asset. But I felt anesthesized to the ground below me. Who knows maybe in the future if get into really hard core downhill I would buy one.
    The EPIC, I found was best for me. The Brain is great at giving you the hardtail feel but working when you need it to give good traction on tougher terrain. Also the 100 mm of travel for the front suspension give you just enough but does not make you numb to the trail. Needless to say I bought the EPIC at a pretty good price I think, I could not ask for more or less. I love this bike, and for the record it does climb like a freaking mountain goat. I found myself going up technical climbs that I could never do before. We'll see what the future in this sport brings for me. For now I the EPIC was the best choice.

  29. #29
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    Great choice. I really liked the feel of the Epic when I tested one out awhile back, but it was too pricey for me. I'm going to wait a few years and see just how much I really get into this before I drop that kind of money. Regardless, it's a great bike. Enjoy, and post picks!

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