Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Wink Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    I'm looking to get into mountain biking for the first time. I used to ride BMX street and park before I had kids an got lazy so, I'm fairly comfortable and brave on a bike.
    I have budget of around 600 and I know right now I'm looking at hardtail bikes. Still on the fence as far as wheel size and can tell from researching that there is quite a debate on 26, 27.5, and the 29er. I guess its just preference.
    I know I need something somewhat sturdy and big as I am 6'2" and just over 200lbs. I'm really sort of overwhelmed as far as what companies are good and what isn't, what equipment is good, and what I need to look for as far as price.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Burt4x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,748
    Welcome to the land of crazy...crazy huge amount of bikes to choose from.
    Tell everyone what you want to do on a MTB..just pathway riding and around your hood for exercise or do you want to take yer bike to the killer MTB up n down cross country..etcc..
    Do you have fast skills...flying off jumps making it look easy or do you crash alot becouse you "want to" fly like "thoes guys".
    Me I crash alott...LOL

    Once you figure out HOW you want to MTB then you find the best bike for it and RIDE
    Ride MORE = Live Longer
    Love Dirt / Hate Pavement

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Burt4x4 View Post
    Welcome to the land of crazy...crazy huge amount of bikes to choose from.
    Tell everyone what you want to do on a MTB..just pathway riding and around your hood for exercise or do you want to take yer bike to the killer MTB up n down cross country..etcc..
    Do you have fast skills...flying off jumps making it look easy or do you crash alot becouse you "want to" fly like "thoes guys".
    Me I crash alott...LOL

    Once you figure out HOW you want to MTB then you find the best bike for it and RIDE
    LOL. I'm going to use the bike for a couple of things. I need a bike that I can use to pull a trailer during the week. My 7 yr old son loves to ride his bike with me but, my 3 yr old is just a passenger at this point so he needs to be pulled along. But, on the weekends when my wife is here with the kids I want to be able to hit the local trails. I don't see me flying high right now but, a small rhythm jump here and there would be great.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    I found two bikes at a local shop in my range. One is a Giant Revel XL 2012 model for $399 and a Trek X-Caliber 4 for $499. Ofcourse, I still need to go this weekend for a test ride...

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Shakester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,556
    Everyone's opinion will vary so its hard to read all them here just to figure out what you would want. My advice is to head out to your local bike shop and start kicking tires. Test ride a few bikes in different wheel sizes and see which one feels good for you. Thats not to say a few suggestions wouldn't hurt.

    The Airborne Guardian 2.0 (29er) for $600 + shipping isn't a bad deal and you get good bang for your buck with the components. Airborne Bicycles. Guardian 2.0

    A Giant Talon 5 27.5" Giant Bikes Talon 5 27.5" Bike 2014 > Complete Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    Another route is looking for a used bike.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    Well, you're definitely right on needing to head down to the shop and kick some tires. There isn't many shops here in Louisville that have a lot of mountain bikes but, they do carry some (road biking seems to be more popular here). I just didn't want to walk in with no clue and get taken for my money lol.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Burt4x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,748
    I am super happy I chose 29", not sure how to explaine it...just goes over stuff easy all while my balance is easy too...but then again new bikes like a new pair of shoes you know..I can jump soooo high!! LOL
    I like my hydro disk brakes..never had disk brakes let alone hydrolic on a bike!! Had to have it..kinda what landed me with Hardrock Sport Disk 29er, it came with hydro brkes @ $640...perfect fit for my budget so I bought it, 3rd bike I looked at...then researching I found this place...<MY it bought I so budjet, at)

    Good Luck<MY< html>
    Ride MORE = Live Longer
    Love Dirt / Hate Pavement

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fishboy316's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    441
    Hi and welcome! This is a very informative place! Opinions do vary here but all are with good intentions!LOL I just did the research and test rides. Started with $600 budget and bought $1700 Cannondale f29 1 alloy. I am also very happy I got the 29er. They do roll over stuff real well! I was looking at some mail order bikes and there was some real good deals out there. In the end as a newbie I decided to go with the lbs for the support. It comes down to what feels good to you. Was at times very confusing at times. Took me 3.5 mos but the wait was worth it. See what if any 2013 or even 2012 models they have left. Mine was a 2013 model and was $1100 off!
    Good luck with your search!
    Bill
    2013 Cannondale F29 1 Alloy
    2013 Cervelo S5 Rival
    2012 Trek X01 crosser
    2017 Trek Farley 7
    2017Trek Domane SLR 6

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,842
    "What bike" threads rule. Nothing more fun than trying to spend other people's money.

    Definitely do some test rides to start off. Ride hardtail and full suspension, ride different wheel sizes. Specially since you're no stranger to riding bike, a little saddle time will give you a much better idea of what's going to work for you and how stuff feels. Coming from BMX, definitely ride some 26" bikes, and you may feel more at home on a hardtail too.

    In general, your money is going to go farthest on a used bike. Unless you're particularly mechanically challenged, at your price point and given that you've already got a whole lot more bike handling skills than the average beginner (I say this because I've been trying to learn to ride a 20" in the parks with my kid for the last few years - you can't BS your way through it. Trust me, I've been trying. ), I'd take a good look at the local CL.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about trailer compatibility either - the ones I've tangled with could be made to work with just about anything shy of a DH bike.

    A couple local rigs for sale that could be decent deals...

    This could be a really fun trail bike...
    Cannondale Full Suspension MTB

    2012 Cannondale Trail SL2
    Sinister Bikes
    Wraith Bicycles
    Sunday River Mtn Bike Park
    NEMBA
    Wachusett Brewing Co.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    77
    With my limited experience of about one year I'd say that if your budget is around 600 then spend the 600 and don't go for a cheaper bike. Spend as much as you can and then some. I am very happy that I did that and didn't choose cheaper option like my friend did. He's looking to buy a new bike after only 6 months of riding.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    Wow I never expected this big of a response! Thanks alot guys! Plenty of info here.
    I've been keeping a close eye on CL. Thanks for looking up a couple for me. I may be making a couple of calls on those bikes today.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    808
    Are they any big bike shows in a few hours drive away coming up? I know this weekend in Toronto the anual spring bike show is on and there are deals to be had. I know in the US there must be some sort of spring bike shows/sales going on. Last year I got a FS 29er frame with rear shock for 299. I had the rest of the parts to build it but 299 was a good deal considering the rear shock was more than 299 .
    You can also check pinkbike.com they have thousands of bikes for sale. I use that and have bought tons of parts off it, never had a bad deal yet.
    Good luck in your search.
    Giant XTC 2 29er
    KHS Flagstaff 29er FS
    Neon Bow Trials Bike
    Norco Fluid 9.2 29er FS
    Norco BIGFOOT FATTY

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    Quote Originally Posted by fahza29er View Post
    Are they any big bike shows in a few hours drive away coming up? I know this weekend in Toronto the anual spring bike show is on and there are deals to be had. I know in the US there must be some sort of spring bike shows/sales going on. Last year I got a FS 29er frame with rear shock for 299. I had the rest of the parts to build it but 299 was a good deal considering the rear shock was more than 299 .
    You can also check pinkbike.com they have thousands of bikes for sale. I use that and have bought tons of parts off it, never had a bad deal yet.
    Good luck in your search.
    I'll have to look into bike shows. I checked out pinkbike.com. Lots of cheap bikes on there. There is a guy in Toronto with alot if Jamis FS bikes for 600USD and down. Free shipping as well!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,072
    Is your budget for just the bike...or does that budget have to include any extra gear as well? It's a good idea to factor in buying a helmet, some sort of water carrying system, and a tire repair kit at the very least.

    As for the bike itself, $600 will go a lot farther buying a hardtail, especially a used one that's a few years old. Test riding a lot of bikes will help you make your decision. The big downfall of buying a bike online is not being able to test ride it to make sure it fits you. Another thing to keep in mind if you're buying a bike online is that you'll have to do some assembly and possibly tuning. It's a good opportunity to learn some maintenance skills, but if you're not comfortable with that you'll have to factor in some shop labor for a bike build into your budget.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    Quote Originally Posted by owensjs View Post
    Is your budget for just the bike...or does that budget have to include any extra gear as well? It's a good idea to factor in buying a helmet, some sort of water carrying system, and a tire repair kit at the very least.

    As for the bike itself, $600 will go a lot farther buying a hardtail, especially a used one that's a few years old. Test riding a lot of bikes will help you make your decision. The big downfall of buying a bike online is not being able to test ride it to make sure it fits you. Another thing to keep in mind if you're buying a bike online is that you'll have to do some assembly and possibly tuning. It's a good opportunity to learn some maintenance skills, but if you're not comfortable with that you'll have to factor in some shop labor for a bike build into your budget.
    Well, gear is going to have to be apart of the 600. I hadn't really thought about it until now. I can make do with a cheaper water carrying system for now but, I want a decent helmet. It really all depends on what I can find locally vs what deals are online. I don't mind doing some assembly and adjustments myself. I've built a habit of being a little tight with cash when it comes to things I can learn to do myself.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fishboy316's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    441
    That sl2 that slaphead found is a good deal. I almost got one of those new. Real nice ride. If I were closer I would think about that bike! Keep looking. You will find something!
    2013 Cannondale F29 1 Alloy
    2013 Cervelo S5 Rival
    2012 Trek X01 crosser
    2017 Trek Farley 7
    2017Trek Domane SLR 6

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,842
    Personally, I dig the Jekyll. Little older, but really good part spec, and the thing looks like it's begging to be ridden hard.
    Sinister Bikes
    Wraith Bicycles
    Sunday River Mtn Bike Park
    NEMBA
    Wachusett Brewing Co.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Personally, I dig the Jekyll. Little older, but really good part spec, and the thing looks like it's begging to be ridden hard.
    I like it as well. Going to see tomorrow what his bottom dollar is. Didn't have time today to give him a buzz.

  19. #19
    R.I.P. DogFriend
    Reputation: jeffj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,887
    That Jekyll is an interesting find. It has some plusses and minuses. The first thing I will tell you is that 2003 was the last year they did not have a platform shock on the rear of the Jekyll. The 2003 models will have a little more 'bob' than the newer ones.. The second thing, is that the rear has 135mm travel, and I don't know what the front has, but they typically didn't have quite as much front travel.

    The good news: 1) the rear wheel has a DT Swiss 240 hub and that = very reliable and super easy to service 2) The rims are Mavic X3.1 which are their first generation UST rims, so you can run UST tires reliably (in which case you technically wouldn't need even need to use sealant, but I would) 3) XT drivetrain = excellent 4) you can switch a bolt to put the shock into different positions. One position features a lower bottom bracket stance for cornering, and the other a higher bottom bracket for more rock/log clearance. You can also turn a ring on the shock to move it forward or back in the bracket. This equals more tuning options which is a good thing 5) it has the standard swingarm instead of the elevated chainstay swingarm. The elevated chainstay swingarms had reliability issues, but this isn't one of them, so that is a good thing 6) the Lefty is a VERY precise steering fork, and some of them are pretty nice as far as damping and ride quality.

    IF it's still got the original parts, and isn't flogged, that isn't a terribly outrageous price for a bike that originally cost $3,000, but maybe a little high given that it's 11 years old.

    2003 Cannondale Jekyll 2000 - BikePedia

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    whats the deal with these Giants? 2012 Giant Revel 1

  21. #21
    R.I.P. DogFriend
    Reputation: jeffj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,887
    The one in the ad looks like an XXL. If you're that tall, you should at least consider something with 29" wheels. The Cannondales you were looking at earlier were a large. How tall are you?

    If a bike doesn't fit, it's not a deal at any price.

    The Revel is an OK entry level bike, but not a bike I would put much into upgrades on. For one thing, they have a straight 1-1/8" head tube, and the trend moving forward is tapered head tubes.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffj View Post
    The one in the ad looks like an XXL. If you're that tall, you should at least consider something with 29" wheels. The Cannondales you were looking at earlier were a large. How tall are you?

    If a bike doesn't fit, it's not a deal at any price.

    The Revel is an OK entry level bike, but not a bike I would put much into upgrades on. For one thing, they have a straight 1-1/8" head tube, and the trend moving forward is tapered head tubes.
    Gotcha. I'm 6'2". I'm still open to 26" just because I'm making the transition from bmx to mtb'n. We'll just have to see what fits tomorrow.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  23. #23
    R.I.P. DogFriend
    Reputation: jeffj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,887
    6'2" is one of those heights that is generally right on the cusp between L and XL.

    Most bikes these days employ what is known as 'modern' geometry which features a sloping (and/or curved) top tube as one of the distinguishing features. One of the things that does, is that it lets a given size frame fit a wider variety of riders than one with a more traditional level-ish/straight top tube will. The reason I mention this, is because it might be theoretically possible for you to have a body type (at 6'2") that could fit some XXL frames if you had legs just tall enough to get the saddle at an acceptable height, and you have a long torso with unusually long arms. It's not out of the question, but it's not likely either IMHO.

    Coming from BMX, you may be most comfortable (at least in the beginning of your transition to MTB) on a bike that might feel a bit cramped to others. Regardless of whether or not you would be able to sink a large amount of money into a bike, I think it's wise not to sink too much into a bike until you get a better feel for what works for you in both size and type of bike.

    FWIW, I think you're on the right track by checking out a variety of bikes and sizes, but I would also advise you to be a little patient and make sure to find a bike that fits since you may need to live with it for a while.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Burt4x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,748
    Yeah must ride, for me it was.
    for referance I'm 6' @ 215lbs and I felt best on 19" L the 21"XL felt way up there, oh on 29ers
    I too was BMX in my youth, but then I got into off-road full size Chevys and I learned the value of large tires out on the trail so I went right for the 29" cuz I knew it would be "eaiser" off-road.
    anyway
    .02c worth
    Ride MORE = Live Longer
    Love Dirt / Hate Pavement

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fishboy316's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    441
    Check this one out. Looks kinda nice: Jamis Exile Comp Mountain Bike 2012 > Complete Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop I have sram x9 and they are real nice! x7 are nice also!
    Check it out!
    2013 Cannondale F29 1 Alloy
    2013 Cervelo S5 Rival
    2012 Trek X01 crosser
    2017 Trek Farley 7
    2017Trek Domane SLR 6

  26. #26
    Lone Wolf
    Reputation: Osco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,789

    Cool-blue Rhythm

    I spent bout' $625 on a Scott Aspect 940,,, It has wet brakes XD

    Put a good seat on it,

    After my first summer I ditched all the front gear stuff, lost the 22 and the 44 tooth rings, kept the 32.
    Now I got me a 1X9,,, Less rattle, less gears, a little less chain.

    Funny thing is I still use the same 4 or 5 gears as before...

    As for the 'What bike to get' question ?

    Wet brakes make a difference, Other than that, pick one that fits and don't spend much.
    Then go ride the snot out of it, hack it up, mod it and ride it to death..

    Then You can buy something fancy next time when you have a little more knowledge on what's out there, the trail conditions you like to ride and a better understanding of how much bike you NEED or want or lust for.....

    Course if your trying to be cool spend about $2500, that should do it :P

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffj View Post
    That Jekyll is an interesting find. It has some plusses and minuses. The first thing I will tell you is that 2003 was the last year they did not have a platform shock on the rear of the Jekyll. The 2003 models will have a little more 'bob' than the newer ones.. The second thing, is that the rear has 135mm travel, and I don't know what the front has, but they typically didn't have quite as much front travel.

    The good news: 1) the rear wheel has a DT Swiss 240 hub and that = very reliable and super easy to service 2) The rims are Mavic X3.1 which are their first generation UST rims, so you can run UST tires reliably (in which case you technically wouldn't need even need to use sealant, but I would) 3) XT drivetrain = excellent 4) you can switch a bolt to put the shock into different positions. One position features a lower bottom bracket stance for cornering, and the other a higher bottom bracket for more rock/log clearance. You can also turn a ring on the shock to move it forward or back in the bracket. This equals more tuning options which is a good thing 5) it has the standard swingarm instead of the elevated chainstay swingarm. The elevated chainstay swingarms had reliability issues, but this isn't one of them, so that is a good thing 6) the Lefty is a VERY precise steering fork, and some of them are pretty nice as far as damping and ride quality.

    IF it's still got the original parts, and isn't flogged, that isn't a terribly outrageous price for a bike that originally cost $3,000, but maybe a little high given that it's 11 years old.

    2003 Cannondale Jekyll 2000 - BikePedia
    I may have this bike down to $600. He's at $625 but, I love to haggle. lol

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    Got it to $600. I'm going to check it out tomorrow along with every LBS in a 50 mile radius.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,842
    I'm kinda rooting for the C-dale. If it's in good shape, that's a pretty solid deal IMO. Take some getting used to the whole suspension thing, but if you end up getting into trail riding, I think it'd be more fun than the typical $600 new bike. You'll know a lot better after you throw a leg over a few bikes what's gonna work for ya. Good luck.
    Sinister Bikes
    Wraith Bicycles
    Sunday River Mtn Bike Park
    NEMBA
    Wachusett Brewing Co.

  30. #30
    R.I.P. DogFriend
    Reputation: jeffj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,887
    ^^^^^ I agree ^^^^^ If the Jekyll is in good shape and has the original parts, it would be a good deal at $600. It's a large and should fit you well. Good luck.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    Have road a couple bikes and have already decided that 29ers just aren't my style. Tried out a Giant Talon 5 27.5 and I liked how it felt in comparison to the 29ers. Checking out the Jekyll next. LBS gave me some tips on what to look for as far as issues with the Jekyll. Super nice guys.
    Thanks everyone for your continued help thru my buying process!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    I bought the Jekyll! Fits the best out of any bike I've rode today. Me and my son are going for a ride. Thanks for all the help!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  33. #33
    R.I.P. DogFriend
    Reputation: jeffj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,887
    A 'couch shot' would be cool, but I'd settle for less ;~)

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?


    This is after we got it home. Family photobombed the picture.
    It came with clip on shoes and a helmet. I'm probably going to switch to a bmx style pedal. The bike rides really smooth with no noise in the shocks or brakes. Rear brake pads will need replacing soon but, still do the job.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fishboy316's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    441
    WOW What a sweet ride! Nice price too!! CONGRATS!!! Lefty is the stuff! BEWARE the clipless!!!! I got em and I have fallen a bunch of times!Keep waiting to hear "Oh the poor old man fell down!!LOL We really do need to learn to use em but man it's a lot at one time!
    Have FUN!
    Bill
    2013 Cannondale F29 1 Alloy
    2013 Cervelo S5 Rival
    2012 Trek X01 crosser
    2017 Trek Farley 7
    2017Trek Domane SLR 6

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sorry for another What bike should i get thread but....what bike should i get?

    Lol thanks. I'm going to play with the clipless stuff in the next day or so. I'll give it a shot.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

  37. #37
    R.I.P. DogFriend
    Reputation: jeffj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,887
    That's a great bike for $600! I like the photo with the kids and wife too.

Similar Threads

  1. No Focus bike thread under Mountain Bike Manufacturer
    By jerry98vert in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-22-2013, 08:22 AM
  2. Oh no, not another which bike to buy thread!
    By lamazion in forum Bike and Frame discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-01-2013, 01:25 PM
  3. Another Which Bike Thread
    By bryan.gurc in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-17-2012, 01:02 PM
  4. My Bike Thread
    By dltmdwns in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-18-2012, 06:59 AM
  5. Another new guy/which bike thread :)
    By BradR in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-06-2012, 04:05 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.