How much is to much for a beginner bike?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    How much is to much for a beginner bike?

    Hi all,

    My wife and I recently moved to northern FL. A few weeks ago we discovered some of the local mtb parks (San Felasco, & Santos) and are starting to get interested in the sport. We both have our old cheapy college bikes (a 10 year old rigid Schwinn for me and a walmart special for her) which have been enough to try out a few of the bunny trails, but we are quickly wanting something more. I am planning to sell my motorcycle (2006 Buell Ulysses) and put some of the cash toward new bikes for both of us.

    I discovered the mtbr forums a few days ago and haven't done much else but read them for 3 days now. My question for you guys is, where is the sweet spot for beginner bikes? In other words, at what point are you just throwing away money on diminishing returns? After reading some reviews, it's easy to talk yourself into spending a bit more for mech disc brakes, for example....but then if we spend just a bit more, we could get hydros.. and on and on.

    I've heard the advice of "pick the type of bike you like and then spend as much as you can afford to get the best components", but have any of the newbies out there regretted spending too much on their first bike?

    Just to throw out some details, we are probably looking to spend $2000 to $2500 total to get both of us set up with new bikes and related accessories. We have been looking at hardtail XC bikes in the $600 to $1200 range (and I realize that's a big range) from Specialized, Trek, Kona, Cannondale, GF, and a few others. I would like to get something that will last us for a while that can be upgraded as we progress (rather than buying another cheap bike now and saving for a better one in 6 months). I am a mechanical engineer and don't mind doing the upgrades & maintenance, hell that's part of the fun for me

    Some specific questions:

    1.) Is it worth stepping up to a low end mechanical disc from the beginning (vs V brakes)? My thinking being, if we went with v brakes now, it would be much more costly to upgrade to discs later due to buying new wheels etc. Not that I think we need discs at this point, I'm sure we don't. But it would be nice to have the easy upgrade option in the future.

    2.) 8 speed vs 9 speed on the rear. I honestly don't think we need 27 speeds now, but most of the better components seem to be for 9 speeds. Again, is it worth spending the extra upfront to be more compatible with upgrades later?

    3.) Forks. What is the minimum you would look for? The RS Dart 3 seems to be popular on the bikes we are looking at. If this is in our price range, is there any reason to even be looking at bikes with lesser forks?

    We are going to take as many test rides as we can to find a bike that fits, but most of these companies seem to have comparable bikes at every price range, with regards to components. Just trying to figure out how high up the ladder we should start looking. More bike = less $$$ for accessories and future upgrades, and vice versa. Thanks for the help, guys.

  2. #2
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    Its never too much
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  3. #3
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    Well here goes. I just bought my first real MTB and I'm just getting into things. Here's my list of what I was looking for:

    1. Disc brakes.

    2. 100mm travel fork with lockout

    3. SRAM x5 shifters or better.

    Everything else was a toss up for me. Good brand bike = good frame.

    After much reading and gnashing of teeth, I settled on a Cannondale F5. Having a blast with it. I'm still riding like a grandpa as I learn, over and over, that the bike is much more capable than I give it credit for.

    As for the disc brakes you mentioned, just go ahead and get them. I went with some buds to a trail in Houston called the "triangle" (triangle of death for a n00b like me). Rode through rim deep water with mud to a grinder and straight into a drop. Not much time to dry off rims in that section. I didn't think I NEEDED discs, but I wanted them for just such an occasion.

  4. #4
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    Your budget seems reasonable for hardtails and any of the brands you listed will be good choices. Base the choice of brands on the local dealer and how the bike fits and feels.

    1) I am also a Florida rider and I didn't think I needed disc brakes in a state with no mountains until I tried them. They modulate much better than V's which is an advantage even on flat twisty trails. I have mechanical BB7's and I love them.

    2) Stick with nine speed rear. Eight speed is dying out and parts will be hard to find.

    3) The fork is probably the most critical component. It's worth the extra money to get a quality fork brand and model.
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  5. #5
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    Congrats on your new found interest. I started riding in Aug of this year and absolutely love it! My experience in a nutshell... I went through 3 bikes to understand the importance of size and components. My 4th and final is an '09 GF X-Cal which is awesome. The 1st 3 bikes I was able to return to the shop I bought them at, no money lost. I had been on my local trails about 6-8 times by then, knew I would be good with a HT and understood what a difference some components would make.

    1) Disc brakes for me, one of the necessary components once I rode a little. My bike has hyds, they work great, sometimes too good in a panic grab. Definitely worth it to me.

    2) I went from 7 speeds to 9, worth it to have the extra. I never hit my 3rd chainring, may swap for bashguard. I think the 9 speeds actually help me in the lower gears more than anything else, and I'm learning shifting techniques for climbing which is improving my skill level and enjoyment.

    3)The move up to the X-Cal from the Cobia was primarily for the shock, based upon the recommendation from my LBS. There was no pressure to buy a more expensive bike, they just said your getting a better shock, good longterm investment... other components were upgraded as well, but the shock was the biggy.

    I live in NVA, and this bike is well suited for the terrain and the trails I ride. It may be overkill, but I'm real comfortable on it and don't feel I need to upgrade any components. Btw, I love the 29 over the 26, rolls over roots and rocks much easier and I'm more confident as a rider. The others I had were 26's.

    Good luck and enjoy whatever you end up choosing.

  6. #6
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    There's really no such thing as "overbuying," when getting into the sport. Some will tell you to buy a cheap bike now until you get better. But, then you've got to sell and purchase again in a short time, and just isn't worth it. The only time that kind of advice is helpful, in my experience, is when you don't know what kind of riding you want to do: pavement, smooth trails, freeride, etc. It sounds like your needs are decidedly cross-country oriented. A good XC bike will do you well.

    In which case, I would encourage you to buy as nice a bike as you can reasonably afford. Don't go into debt over a bike, but get something nice. You'll be happier in the long run.

    As for some of your specific questions. In the $600 range and above, V-brakes isn't usually even an option anymore. You'll end up with discs, which is a good thing for true xc riding, even on flatter, smoother terrain. They'll let you carry more speed, since you'll have more control for slowing down faster when you need to.

    I'd go with a nine-speed setup. And a nicer fork than the Dart if you can afford a bike with it. The Dart isn't terrible, but it isn't all that nice, either. Closer to your $1200 side will get you a bike that has a Tora or something.

    One other thing to think about is wheel size. Go with a 29er. Yes, I am a 29er zealot, they just work better in most applications, especially XC.

    Here's a few bikes I'd recommend to you if you were in my shop: Haro Ally XC (29er), Giant XTC 29er 1 (this one is a little over your stated budget, but if you can swing it, a really nice bike), Giant XTC 1 26er, Cannondale 29er 4, or even the Cannondale F4 26er.
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the replies. It seems like the general consensus fits with my thinking that it's a good idea to go for the discs and 9 speed out of the gate. How about mech vs hydro discs? For example, looking at the Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc vs the RH Expert Disc which is the next step up. The Comp has Avid BB5 mechanicals vs the Expert's Tektro Aurigo comp hydros. I'm guessing these are low end hydros. Would it be better to stick with the mechanicals and then upgrade to some good hydros (or maybe BB7s) later?

    Haven't really been looking at 29ers, but maybe we should be. In talking with a couple of LBS they seemed to be steering me towards 26" for a first bike and that a 29" would make a great second bike. Has anybody started out on a 29er that could offer some perspective on this? Our focus for a while will probably XC florida singletrack with some onroad/sidewalk riding around town.

    One other question. How quickly do you recommend making the jump to clipless pedals? Should we factor that into the initial cost, or should we ride a few months before we add that to the mix? Thanks again.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WQFTruckster
    Thanks for the replies. It seems like the general consensus fits with my thinking that it's a good idea to go for the discs and 9 speed out of the gate. How about mech vs hydro discs? For example, looking at the Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc vs the RH Expert Disc which is the next step up. The Comp has Avid BB5 mechanicals vs the Expert's Tektro Aurigo comp hydros. I'm guessing these are low end hydros. Would it be better to stick with the mechanicals and then upgrade to some good hydros (or maybe BB7s) later?

    Haven't really been looking at 29ers, but maybe we should be. In talking with a couple of LBS they seemed to be steering me towards 26" for a first bike and that a 29" would make a great second bike. Has anybody started out on a 29er that could offer some perspective on this? Our focus for a while will probably XC florida singletrack with some onroad/sidewalk riding around town.

    One other question. How quickly do you recommend making the jump to clipless pedals? Should we factor that into the initial cost, or should we ride a few months before we add that to the mix? Thanks again.
    Both of those are great bikes. I would shoot for mechanical Avid breaks for a beginner. The BB5 are a decent pair that wont let you down.

    As for a 29er. Try em out and see what you think. Their not for evry1 but you may find yourself really liking them.

    As for clipless, its up to you. I ride platform and iv been riding for a few years. unless your bike comes with clipless, ride your bike how it is, then decide what to upgrade first!! Hope this helps

  9. #9
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    get some thing with disk brakes. or its going to cost you more. later on when u deside that you wants disks brakes.
    i just recently also bought a new mountain bike and i am happy with it. its a trek 6000 09

  10. #10
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    double post

  11. #11
    I think I need to Upgrade
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    $10,000 for each bike might be a bit much, but you only live once!

  12. #12
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    I think a 29-er HT is a great choice. I don't know that there is any rule that says you can't jump to a 2nd or 3rd bike as your first bike. I own a Cannondale FS bike and a rigid 29-er HT. They are both fun bikes. Just depends on my mood and the terrain and the group of people I'll be riding with.

    With your budget, there are some really good options out there for bikes. But factor in such things as helmet, clothing, tools in the budget. Also, do you need a bike rack for transport?

    Having to maintain two bikes to start out with may be a challenge if you don't know how to properly adjust and maintain bikes. A good LBS would be highly recommended. It may mean the difference between going from brand A and brand B all things being equivalent.

    I've been riding on mech disc brakes (BB5) for the past couple of months. They don't modulate as well as my Shimano LX hydros, nor do they have as good a feel. But they are easy to adjust and they work great. I ride where it's wet, so discs are a must.

    I think a good fork is gold. Something that can be set up in your weight range with good damping.

    From about $800 to $1500, I would recommend getting the best bike you can afford. This price range usually provides great bang for the buck when you step up in component grade. Beyond that, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Yeah, it's nicer. But do you really need it?

    In the $1000 range, you should be able to find something like a Cannondale F3. Definitely an F4. It'll come with a great fork (fatty headshok 80mm...light, accurate), disc brakes, and reasonable components.

    You can look at some of the big brand name bikes and they may have slightly higher components. Just watch what fork and brakes it comes with. There can be quite the cost associtated with them
    Just get out and ride!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic002
    I think a 29-er HT is a great choice. I don't know that there is any rule that says you can't jump to a 2nd or 3rd bike as your first bike. I own a Cannondale FS bike and a rigid 29-er HT. They are both fun bikes. Just depends on my mood and the terrain and the group of people I'll be riding with.

    With your budget, there are some really good options out there for bikes. But factor in such things as helmet, clothing, tools in the budget. Also, do you need a bike rack for transport?

    Having to maintain two bikes to start out with may be a challenge if you don't know how to properly adjust and maintain bikes. A good LBS would be highly recommended. It may mean the difference between going from brand A and brand B all things being equivalent.

    I've been riding on mech disc brakes (BB5) for the past couple of months. They don't modulate as well as my Shimano LX hydros, nor do they have as good a feel. But they are easy to adjust and they work great. I ride where it's wet, so discs are a must.

    I think a good fork is gold. Something that can be set up in your weight range with good damping.

    From about $800 to $1500, I would recommend getting the best bike you can afford. This price range usually provides great bang for the buck when you step up in component grade. Beyond that, the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Yeah, it's nicer. But do you really need it?

    In the $1000 range, you should be able to find something like a Cannondale F3. Definitely an F4. It'll come with a great fork (fatty headshok 80mm...light, accurate), disc brakes, and reasonable components.

    You can look at some of the big brand name bikes and they may have slightly higher components. Just watch what fork and brakes it comes with. There can be quite the cost associtated with them
    Hi Traffic, Thanks for the response. Funny you should mention the F3. I have been drooling over the 2010 model with the flash frame and lefty for 3 days now. I'm seriously considering increasing the budget a few hundred to get these bikes. There is an excellent cannondale shop close to me and I would love to give them my business.

    They actually have a good deal on a 2009 F4 with the headshock, but there is only one and its a large, so my wife would have to get something different anyways. I test rode it and liked it a lot but I much prefer the look of the 2010 F3. Also, I think I would be kicking myself later if I didn't save up a bit more for the lefty. From what I can tell, upgrading to the lefty later from the headshock would be $800-1k.

    I actually tried a 29er rigid single speed the other day, just to get a feel for it. I liked it. It was definitely a nice smooth ride. However, I think I'm still leaning towards the 26 in bikes. They just feel sharper and crisper to me. I'm still relatively young, and don't mind a slightly harsher ride to save some weight and cost.

    Are there any reviews on the 2010 F3 yet? Any idea on weight?

    The shop I'm interested in also carries Scott and Jamis. Any recommendations for comparable bikes to the F3 to look at? Also, I realize at ~$1500 we are almost in the price range of full sus bikes, but I'm still leaning toward a very good hardtail vs an entry level FS. Is that good logic?

  14. #14
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    I have a Lefty DLR2 on my Rush. Great "fork." Very accurate, smooth, light. Feels similar to a Fox fork with 15mm axle.

    But the headshok employs the same technology of the 88 needle bearings. Unless you actually need the 110mm of travel vs the 80mm, then I'd just stick with the F3. (Well, I guess the F2 has nicer wheels and components as well.) I think the F3 has the rebound adjustment which is nice to have to fine tune the action.

    You can quickly go up in price with parts and all. But the F2 and F3 have the same frame (I'm not sure for '10) I believe the F4 is not made in USA. And I'm not sure if the any of the Caffeine frames are made in USA anymore in '10?? If that makes a difference.

    Also, you can find used examples if you look around a bit.

    I would lean towards a good HT vs a mediocre FS bike. HT feels great. FS bikes are great for riding 2+ hours and you don't feel beat up. For less than 2hrs riding, I find they lack...um...challenge. You have to ride so much faster to get the sense of speed. I like dancing with my bike and "working it" as part of the enjoyment. Just preference.

    Again, check on the trails nearby. Where will you be riding? With whom? Consider the skill and fitness of your partner. Maybe she's the one that should get an F2. :P Lighter 26-ish #) and with nicer parts. You can "struggle" with an F3 or older F4. ;-)

    I've read some good things about the Scott...err 40? I don't know that you can really go too wrong. Just which bike fits you.

    The Caffeine bikes are known for their handling. The whole headshok/Lefty is a love it or hate depending on if your LBS can support you or not.
    Just get out and ride!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic002
    But the headshok employs the same technology of the 88 needle bearings. Unless you actually need the 110mm of travel vs the 80mm, then I'd just stick with the F3. (Well, I guess the F2 has nicer wheels and components as well.) I think the F3 has the rebound adjustment which is nice to have to fine tune the action.

    You can quickly go up in price with parts and all. But the F2 and F3 have the same frame (I'm not sure for '10) I believe the F4 is not made in USA. And I'm not sure if the any of the Caffeine frames are made in USA anymore in '10?? If that makes a difference.
    I believe the F3 comes with the lefty in 2010 (not 2009). Also the 2010 F3 has the Flash frame which is still made in the US. I assume it is a step up from the caffeine? The new F4 and below use the Trail SL frame which is Asian made. While I don't know that I need the extra travel now, I am just thinking about the $$$ it would take to upgrade the 2009 F4 headshock in the future. I'd kinda rather start with the best frame and fork I can get out of the gate, and then leave them alone.

  16. #16
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    If you have the means, I would agree to get the best frame and fork possible. Everything else, you can upgrade when the time comes or when things break.
    Just get out and ride!

  17. #17
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    I wouldn't spend too much on your first serious bike.
    $600-$800 for a hard tail and $800-$1000 for a full-suspension will get you into a quality (albeit basic) bike that will help you figure out what kind of riding style you will gravitate toward. Then, after a year or so, pop multiple Grover Clevelands for a higher quality bike that more specifically suits your needs... all-mountain, trail, XC, hard tail... who know maybe your a single-speed rigid type and you can get off really cheap for a helluva ride.

    Anyway, don't go cheap, but don't go all out on your first 'real' MTB.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WQFTruckster
    ...
    at what point are you just throwing away money on diminishing returns?
    ...
    we are probably looking to spend $2000 to $2500 total to get both of us set up with new bikes and related accessories. We have been looking at hardtail XC bikes in the $600 to $1200 range (and I realize that's a big range) from Specialized, Trek, Kona, Cannondale, GF, and a few others.
    ...
    1.) Is it worth stepping up to a low end mechanical disc from the beginning (vs V brakes)? My thinking being, if we went with v brakes now, it would be much more costly to upgrade...

    2.) 8 speed vs 9 speed on the rear. I honestly don't think we need 27 speeds now...

    We are going to take as many test rides as we can to find a bike that fits,
    I think around $1000 should buy you a very good hardtail bike. $600 to $1200 is a good range to look at.

    1) In that price range, you may find decent hydraulic brakes too. Usually hydraulics are very low-maintenance. Discs are superior if you ever ride in wet or dirty conditions. Upgrading IS more expensive.

    2) 9 speed rear is really the standard now. Good availablility of parts. I don't need 27 gears either: I have fun on just one. I hear Florida does not have lots of big mountains that would be impossible to ride without "granny ring"...

    Test riding is a great idea. Buy the bikes you like best.

  19. #19
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    I'd shoot for around the $800 range for a hardtail. I guess most around this price would have discs, but I wouldn't rule out V-brakes if it meant getting other better quality components (at least get a bike that's ready for discs). I upgraded my bike from V's and ended up spending about $20 more upgrading rather than getting a lesser brake stock. It was worth it in my case.

    Bottom line: Get the bike that you like and will want to ride. If you don't ride it, any bike will be a waste of money.

  20. #20
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    You may want to take a look at the Forge Sawback 5xx, everything that you listed but an excellent price. Goto this link:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...sawback+silver

    Or Forge's website:
    http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5red.asp

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikefun
    You may want to take a look at the Forge Sawback 5xx, everything that you listed but an excellent price. Goto this link:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...sawback+silver

    Or Forge's website:
    http://www.forgebikes.com/saw5red.asp
    The guy wants a quality hard tail, not a 32 lb janky target bike.
    :wq

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nachomc
    The guy wants a quality hard tail, not a 32 lb janky target bike.

  23. #23
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    I was just in a similar situation (last week), although I only had half as I only had to shop for myself. Read reviews and find something that you feel comfortable with. People are going to find something negative about any bike.

    What kept me at peace was knowing that it's probably not going to be my last bike. Also, go price out components. You'll realize that stuff isn't SUPER expensive if you find something you don't like with whatever you buy. Multiple changes can be expensive but simple ones like brakes, headsets, handle bars, etc are really not all that badly priced. Disc brakes from the start will give you something to sell and make a few dollars on down the road if you upgrade.

    I ended up putting a deposit down Redline D660, $1400. I dunno if it's the best deal for the money or not, but I was happy with what I saw. Good reviews, decent parts right from the factory (X.9, BB7, RS Reba fork), and a good dealer who is a pleasure to work with.

    I'm not saying that it's the bike for you, just saying to be comfortable with whatever you buy. In a world where there are 4,000 manufacturers and 4 million different configurations, it's not always easy to say "I like it" and put it in your price range.

  24. #24
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    Definitely disc brakes (I have both BB7s and Shimano hydros...prefer the hydros, but it's a toss up) and 9 speed. The Trek 6500 goes for under $1,200 and has a Rockshox Tora and Shimano hydros. If you ar ealready riding on older/cheaper bikes and know you really want to keep doing this, then spring for as much as you can without hurting your families budget. I started out with a Trek 4300 with V-brakes and 1 1/2 years into it wanted something better. Get something you are really going to like and be proud of. It's worth it.

  25. #25
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    Lokking at the FORGE website, the bike as it is specced there, doesn't seem THAT bad. It's got shimano deore, which is reasonable for beginners. Granted it's a dart ONE but at least it ain't a no-name painted the same color as the bike. And Avid BB5s... I've got a set I've had for a few years now, and transfered from bike to bike a few times because I love them so muich. They're reliabled, have good (though not FANTASTIC) stopping power, they're easy to maintain and adjust... Personally I've chosen them over more expensive hydraulic brakes for more than one build-up. Anyway.. I digress.

    Personally I had a schwinn of similar specs as my first 'bike store' bike. I loved it, and grew out of it after just one season, and it wasn't a terribly big loss to trade it in and buy something a little better the next year.

    I wouldn't call the Forge a race-winner, but it doesn't look like particularly a walmart bike either.

    When we tyr to convince folks just getting into cycling tha ANY bike that costs less than a grand is not even worth riding, we do a disservice to them,a nd to the sport of cycling. We continue to push forward the false impression of cyclists as elitist pricks.

    So, yeah if they want to get something like the forge, or some of the more basic schwinns etc. that are not quite walmart, but don't grace the top shelf at the bike store either... go ahead.

    Bottom Line: Anything that is reliable, decent quality, and gets you riding long enough to figure out what kind of rider you really are, is a great beginner's bike.

  26. #26
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    Just a couple quick points. Stay away from anything below a R.S. Dart. The dart isn't amazing, but it will be fine. Anything below that will be a second tier manufacturer and you want nothing to do with those.

    Brakes; get discs. Avid mechanicals are the only worthwhile choice (good power, easy to find pads, easily adjustable) for mechanical brakes. If you get a choice then hydros are generally better. But again, look for a well known company and stay away from price point systems. The Avid Juicy 3 is a great brake for the price. I have found any disc system by Tektro is vastly inferior. Bad power and feel, impossible to locate replacement parts, and it is very difficult to even find brake pads at most shops. No Tektro brakes, only Avid Mechanicals.

    Also, I hate the Lefty. Too much maintenance. But perhaps that's for another time.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebrahum
    Just a couple quick points. Stay away from anything below a R.S. Dart. The dart isn't amazing, but it will be fine. Anything below that will be a second tier manufacturer and you want nothing to do with those.

    Brakes; get discs. Avid mechanicals are the only worthwhile choice (good power, easy to find pads, easily adjustable) for mechanical brakes. If you get a choice then hydros are generally better. But again, look for a well known company and stay away from price point systems. The Avid Juicy 3 is a great brake for the price. I have found any disc system by Tektro is vastly inferior. Bad power and feel, impossible to locate replacement parts, and it is very difficult to even find brake pads at most shops. No Tektro brakes, only Avid Mechanicals.

    Also, I hate the Lefty. Too much maintenance. But perhaps that's for another time.
    Many view the Dart to be a consumable fork.

    300+hours on my Lefty with zero maintenance. It's probably about time to regrease the bearings. Meanwhile my friend's Fox F100 RL has been in the shop for complete overhaul of blown seals.

    I think your Lefty comment is a gross generalization.
    Just get out and ride!

  28. #28
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    Reputation: nachomc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy33
    When we tyr to convince folks just getting into cycling tha ANY bike that costs less than a grand is not even worth riding, we do a disservice to them,a nd to the sport of cycling. We continue to push forward the false impression of cyclists as elitist pricks.
    I appreciate what you're saying, but if you read the rest of the thread, you'll see that the guy has a good budget and doesn't want an entry level bike.
    :wq

  29. #29
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    To be fair, just because you haven't serviced your Lefty doesn't mean it doesn't need it. How often do you check the needle bearing migration? Go measure your axle to crown, I'll bet you're not getting full travel. I'll take a half hour of service a couple times a season on my Fox to the constant wonder if my Lefty is actually working properly.

    Everyone has opinions, mine is that I hate the Lefty. It is a fine, very stiff "fork"; it can be amazingly light. I know all the selling points, but I prefer almost every other similarly priced option to the Lefty.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebrahum
    To be fair, just because you haven't serviced your Lefty doesn't mean it doesn't need it. How often do you check the needle bearing migration? Go measure your axle to crown, I'll bet you're not getting full travel. I'll take a half hour of service a couple times a season on my Fox to the constant wonder if my Lefty is actually working properly.

    Everyone has opinions, mine is that I hate the Lefty. It is a fine, very stiff "fork"; it can be amazingly light. I know all the selling points, but I prefer almost every other similarly priced option to the Lefty.
    Rigid is better I did a full "spray with water and wipe off" service on it the other day. Restored that luster.
    :wq

  31. #31
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    i heard hitler rode a rigid 29er

    buy a bike at a price point thats not going to stress you out.. a lot of people ***** about newbies getting high end ~$4000 bikes, but if thats a drop in the bucket for you, you'd appreciate the quality. a guy who buys a 4k bike by selling all his stuff and eating ramen for months will probably regret it!

    if you cant get a really great mostly xt/deore mixed bike for 1200 bucks you're not trying! tons of good deals out there lately. forget about all this dart talk. could get something with a reba or recon or even a low end fox for that.

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