Chain issues - dirt and grime becoming a real problem- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Chain issues - dirt and grime becoming a real problem

    I was riding the other day and heard what I thought was my chain rubbing on my front derailer. I thought I was dealing with cable stretch (new bike) and that it had just come out of adjustment. Turns out, it is actually sand and grit inside the chain itself making it noisy. I went to adjust the front derailer last night and discovered this.

    I completely cleaned my chain about 30 miles ago. I went through the tutorial posted at the top of the page here, and I used mineral spirits to clean it numerous times and then followed with two cleaings in an ultrasonic cleaner. Funny thing is that I thought it was clean when I put it in the ultrasonic cleaner, but I was way wrong. The water/dishwashing liquid was just as black as it was when it came out of the mineral spirits. Once dry (with an air hose) I relubed the chain with Finish line dry - teflon. I didn't over-do it, but I did make sure I got some on every joint. Before reinstalling I cleaned the front and rear sprockets well to remove any dirt - this was a major pain in the rear? Any hints on cleaning the sprockets in a timely manner?

    This kind of bugs me, because I'm getting better and better at riding greater distances, and I don't want to have to take my chain off to clean it every time I ride or every other time. Where I ride is a mix between hard pack and sandy soil; so alot of dusty dirt and fine sand. This seems to be what has infiltrated my drivetrain again. I know it needs to be cleaned again. When I do it, I want to put something different on for lube. I thought the finish line dry would be better than oil type or wet lube, but it looks like it is just as bad.

    I'm not sure if it has anything to do with my tires, but I'm running the Kenda small blocks (29") and they throw sand all over everything including my legs and obviously the chain right there on the front sprockets.

    Not sure what changes I need to make, but I've got to do something. I don't have time to do chain maintenance every 20 miles or so. How do you guys keep your chains clean and how do you clean them efficiently when they actually get dirty? I guess another topic hotly debated is chain lube. I've read just about all this threads, but I guess I'm looking for something "dryer" than finish line dry, but I am not sure about the wax types. No water where I ride.

  2. #2
    DynoDon
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    Finish Line just released a new wax at or around interbike (Sept), its Ceramic Wax, and has a gold cap on the bottle, the only place I've seen it so far is online. I use White Lightning, I plan on changing to FL Ceramic Wax, I have to wax after ever ride now, and carry wax on longer rides or wet rides, I don't mind waxing every ride I just want the best, I'll be giving FS Ceramic a try.
    http://www.finishlineusa.com/product...c_wax_lube.htm

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by manabiker
    Finish Line just released a new wax at or around interbike (Sept), its Ceramic Wax, and has a gold cap on the bottle, the only place I've seen it so far is online. I use White Lightning, I plan on changing to FL Ceramic Wax, I have to wax after ever ride now, and carry wax on longer rides or wet rides, I don't mind waxing every ride I just want the best, I'll be giving FS Ceramic a try.
    http://www.finishlineusa.com/product...c_wax_lube.htm
    That looks like some stuff I'd like to try but I wonder where I can get it. Doesn't look like they offer it directly off of their site.

  4. #4
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    Nevermind I see it on nashbar.

  5. #5
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    "How do you guys keep your chains clean and how do you clean them efficiently when they actually get dirty?"

    If I rode in the conditions that you describe, I'd be cleaning the chain every 20 or 30 miles. Unfortunately fine grit is a pain in the butt, and it's and even bigger pain if its wet! So when the drive train gets dirty enough to make noise, it's time to clean it, really nothing you can do about it.

    With that said, there are a couple of lubes that I use that seem to do very well. Boeshield T9 is one and Dumonde Tech BCL original is another. Neither are particularly cheap, the Boeshield T9 runs about $10 for a 4 oz. bottle, and the Dumonde Tech runs about $16 for a 4 oz. bottle. Like I said, not cheap, but both last quite a while. The T9 has been my go to lube for quite a while. It works well and lasts even in wet environments. I can usually get about 60 or 70 dirt miles out of it, and around 100 road miles. I'm just trying out the Dumonde Tech original, but it seems to be pretty good stuff. On my commuter, which sees more use than my off road bike, I applied it and ran aobut 100 miles on the first application. Was starting to get a little chain noise and re-applied (without cleaning), and have about 150 miles on the second application and still no chain noise. So far the Dumonde Tech is out lasting the T9 about 2:1 plus a little. I'm betting though that in a few more miles I'll have to clean and relube. But 150 miles on a combination of pavement and gravel roads (with a fine powdery dust on the surface) ain't bad at all for any lube, wet or dry!

    The only draw back to these two products is, they are NOT an "apply and ride" type of lube. Both require that you clean the chain completely of any previous lube, very important. Apply the fresh lubricant and then allow them to sit for a couple of hours. Both are dry lubricants that dry out completely after application and must be allowed to do so before subjected to the trail. I've ridden both products in dry/dusty/gritty conditions and wet muddy conditions. Both work well, keep the chain cleaner than anything else I've used, and both last longer than any dry type lube I've used so far. And so far the Dumonde Tech lasts the longer of the two.

    Like I said, not cheap but both work well. You're call.

    Good Dirt
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncwhiz
    That looks like some stuff I'd like to try but I wonder where I can get it. Doesn't look like they offer it directly off of their site.
    Just click the "Enter Factory Store - Buy Now" button to the right of the first video link, in stock and $5.99 for 2oz.

    I've never ran into any issues while using Dumonde lite, but you have to be meticulous in your application and wiping clean or it can become a mess.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebrahum
    Just click the "Enter Factory Store - Buy Now" button to the right of the first video link, in stock and $5.99 for 2oz.

    I've never ran into any issues while using Dumonde lite, but you have to be meticulous in your application and wiping clean or it can become a mess.
    I see now thanks

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squash
    "How do you guys keep your chains clean and how do you clean them efficiently when they actually get dirty?"

    If I rode in the conditions that you describe, I'd be cleaning the chain every 20 or 30 miles. Unfortunately fine grit is a pain in the butt, and it's and even bigger pain if its wet! So when the drive train gets dirty enough to make noise, it's time to clean it, really nothing you can do about it.

    With that said, there are a couple of lubes that I use that seem to do very well. Boeshield T9 is one and Dumonde Tech BCL original is another. Neither are particularly cheap, the Boeshield T9 runs about $10 for a 4 oz. bottle, and the Dumonde Tech runs about $16 for a 4 oz. bottle. Like I said, not cheap, but both last quite a while. The T9 has been my go to lube for quite a while. It works well and lasts even in wet environments. I can usually get about 60 or 70 dirt miles out of it, and around 100 road miles. I'm just trying out the Dumonde Tech original, but it seems to be pretty good stuff. On my commuter, which sees more use than my off road bike, I applied it and ran aobut 100 miles on the first application. Was starting to get a little chain noise and re-applied (without cleaning), and have about 150 miles on the second application and still no chain noise. So far the Dumonde Tech is out lasting the T9 about 2:1 plus a little. I'm betting though that in a few more miles I'll have to clean and relube. But 150 miles on a combination of pavement and gravel roads (with a fine powdery dust on the surface) ain't bad at all for any lube, wet or dry!

    The only draw back to these two products is, they are NOT an "apply and ride" type of lube. Both require that you clean the chain completely of any previous lube, very important. Apply the fresh lubricant and then allow them to sit for a couple of hours. Both are dry lubricants that dry out completely after application and must be allowed to do so before subjected to the trail. I've ridden both products in dry/dusty/gritty conditions and wet muddy conditions. Both work well, keep the chain cleaner than anything else I've used, and both last longer than any dry type lube I've used so far. And so far the Dumonde Tech lasts the longer of the two.

    Like I said, not cheap but both work well. You're call.

    Good Dirt
    Ok. well I was just under the impression that I might have been doing it wrong. I guess I'm lubing correctly, I just am gonna have to get used to cleaning. I had no idea I would be doing chain maintenance so often. My wife's bike will have to be done too. I'm just gonna have to get to the point where I do it maybe once a week. It is so bad at the moment, I can pinch the chain right above the chainstay where it stretches between the front and rear sprockets and twist it, and it makes the most awful sound. It sounds like two pieces of 80 grit sandpaper rubbing together.

    Right now, if I can keep up the pace I'm at, I ride 7 miles on tuesday and thursday and then 11 on Sunday. That means about 25 miles a week. Maybe do chain maintenance once a week. I'm not that good yet, but I guess when I get where I can go longer distances I will have to do it more often.

  9. #9
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    Another vote for DuMonde. I've been using the original for several years now. Swore I'd never use a dry lube cause they all sucked. They either did nothing for moisture protection, or contained wax that built up, (no more "clean drivetrain") and required physical intervention to remove, as in, scrape the crap off with a screwdriver, ugh. My wet lube of choice, Triflow? At least I could hit it with degreaser, and start fresh.....

    Then a buddy who lives in Phoenix suggested DuMonde (actually, raved about it), while we were cruising Interbike. I grabbed a free sample, tried it, and have used nothing else in probably 4 years. Sell a ton of it too, folks love it around here.

    Trick is, don't over apply. Wait till it sounds dry, then hit it again. My chains and stuff are lightly covered in a black dusty crud that mostly wipes off with a rag (or my shorts, trail side) is dry to the touch, doesn't transfer easily, and I never have issues with noise, mis-shifting, excessive build up, etc. In fact, I never clean my chain. I simply keep applying lube as needed, (wipe off the exterior post application) and when the chain is beat, I throw it away and start over. At that time, I simply hit my cogs and pulleys with a rag and some citrus cleaner, sparkleicious

    I hate lube zealots, and yet, here I am, being one.
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  10. #10
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    I know you're in some harsh riding conditions, but my guess is that you're just using too light of a lube right now. You might pick up a bit more sand, but you may find that it allows you to keep that awful noise away. Honestly, I'd give one of the Dumonde lubes a go. Apply, let sit overnight and wipe off the excess. I can't say enough good things about my experience with their lubes.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  11. #11
    shining bright
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    SO where can I ge tthis Dumonde stuff?

  12. #12
    My spelling is atroshus
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    I bought a park tool and use it to clean my chain about every third ride. In between I use tri-flow and wipe my chain down before and after every ride.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncwhiz
    SO where can I ge tthis Dumonde stuff?
    http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1...f287704ad18784

    Edit: That citrus degreaser is some powerful stuff if you're looking for something to clean with.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  14. #14
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    I use Rock n Roll, blue, that has teflon in it and lube before and after I ride. Whip it down with a rag and it keeps the chain relatively clean. I can usually get about 400 miles out of a chain.

  15. #15
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    I use DuPont Multi-Use Lubricant with Teflon. It's cheap, it works, it lasts. There's a good chance you can even find it at your local hardware store. The prices being charged for high end chain lubes are insane.

    You'll just need to get used to cleaning your chain. Also learn how to properly check chain stretch, and replace your chain after it's 1/16 over 12".

    http://www.bikebandit.com/dupont-mul...LAID=338724001

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crosstown Stew
    I use Rock n Roll, blue, that has teflon in it and lube before and after I ride. Whip it down with a rag and it keeps the chain relatively clean. I can usually get about 400 miles out of a chain.
    That is another thing I was wondering about. How long should I expect a chain to last?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncwhiz
    That is another thing I was wondering about. How long should I expect a chain to last?
    It depends on your riding conditions, maintenance, condition of your chainrings/cogs, and your riding style.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    I use DuPont Multi-Use Lubricant with Teflon. It's cheap, it works, it lasts. There's a good chance you can even find it at your local hardware store. The prices being charged for high end chain lubes are insane.

    http://www.bikebandit.com/dupont-mul...LAID=338724001
    That drip bottle is probably better than the aerosol. I found the aerosol version at the hardware store, but it's kind of annoying to apply on the chain. Mine doesn't last all that long either. It doesn't gum up as like the Finish Line Dry w/ Teflon though.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ckeyeus
    The drip bottle is probably better than the aerosol. I found the aerosol version at the hardware store, but it's kind of annoying to apply on the chain. Mine doesn't last all that long either.
    Sorry, I should have specified to get the drip bottle. It works a lot better for lubing a chain since you can place a drop on each link. Aerosol just goes everywhere.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncwhiz
    I was riding the other day and heard what I thought was my chain rubbing on my front derailer. I thought I was dealing with cable stretch (new bike) and that it had just come out of adjustment. Turns out, it is actually sand and grit inside the chain itself making it noisy. I went to adjust the front derailer last night and discovered this.

    I completely cleaned my chain about 30 miles ago. I went through the tutorial posted at the top of the page here, and I used mineral spirits to clean it numerous times and then followed with two cleaings in an ultrasonic cleaner. Funny thing is that I thought it was clean when I put it in the ultrasonic cleaner, but I was way wrong. The water/dishwashing liquid was just as black as it was when it came out of the mineral spirits. Once dry (with an air hose) I relubed the chain with Finish line dry - teflon. I didn't over-do it, but I did make sure I got some on every joint. Before reinstalling I cleaned the front and rear sprockets well to remove any dirt - this was a major pain in the rear? Any hints on cleaning the sprockets in a timely manner?

    This kind of bugs me, because I'm getting better and better at riding greater distances, and I don't want to have to take my chain off to clean it every time I ride or every other time. Where I ride is a mix between hard pack and sandy soil; so alot of dusty dirt and fine sand. This seems to be what has infiltrated my drivetrain again. I know it needs to be cleaned again. When I do it, I want to put something different on for lube. I thought the finish line dry would be better than oil type or wet lube, but it looks like it is just as bad.

    I'm not sure if it has anything to do with my tires, but I'm running the Kenda small blocks (29") and they throw sand all over everything including my legs and obviously the chain right there on the front sprockets.

    Not sure what changes I need to make, but I've got to do something. I don't have time to do chain maintenance every 20 miles or so. How do you guys keep your chains clean and how do you clean them efficiently when they actually get dirty? I guess another topic hotly debated is chain lube. I've read just about all this threads, but I guess I'm looking for something "dryer" than finish line dry, but I am not sure about the wax types. No water where I ride.

    There are a lot of over done maintance procedures on this site....

    Rather than the involved cleaning process you describe, I wash the bike when it gets dirty or muddy maybe every two weeks or so, the chain gets soaped up and hosed off...

    Then I dry everything and re-lube...I will wipe the chain and re-lube frequently maybe every third day....I ride 6 days a week.

    I do about 3 chains a year, including 6 months of salty slushy winter, so it works. That is anywhere from 5000 km to 7000 km/year.

  21. #21
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    It's a mountain bike. Chains get dirty...all the time. You are in dirt.
    I clean my chain every ride, I have to. I dont take it off. i just use a chain cleaning tool. throw the bike on the stand, lcean it in the solution twice, wipe it, re lube and go.
    Tons of maintenance involved in riding in mud/dust wet weather. Get used to it.
    The way you described cleaning your chain is overkill. Buy a chain cleaning tool, the solution for it, it takes approx 5 minutes to clean and relube the chain.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncwhiz
    That is another thing I was wondering about. How long should I expect a chain to last?
    Buy a chain measuring tool, its designed to measure chain stretch. Its inexpensive and a great tool to have.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncwhiz
    That is another thing I was wondering about. How long should I expect a chain to last?
    Like others said, it depends on your riding style/ conditions/ maintenance/ chain. If you use a nickel plated chain like a pc 970/990, all thing the same, compared to a pc 930/950, it will last longer. My road chains, pc 1090's easily get over 1k miles while mtb ss gets 400-500 and mtb geared closer to 700-800.

    Just wipe it clean with some lube before and after every ride, maybe takes 30 secs, and give it a good cleaning like you described above every month and you'll be on par with getting the most out of your chain.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickerman1
    Buy a chain measuring tool, its designed to measure chain stretch. Its inexpensive and a great tool to have.
    The cheap tools are fairly worthless. A 12" ruler is all you need.

  25. #25
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    How exactly does a chain stretch tool work? I mean is it just a gage with a given distance between two points? If this is the case, I can easily make one of these. I guess when the chain gets to the point wher it won't fit between the set distance between the two its time to replace..

  26. #26
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    Yeah, a chain stretch tool is just a convenient gauge, so you can accomplish the same with a ruler, although it's not as sexy

    For lubing I also use Rock n Roll. It's self cleaning, so I just apply, then wipe off excess. Just remember that it's the spaces between the links and rollers in the chain (places where friction occurs) that need lube, not the outside of the chain, so keep the outside of the chain lube free.

  27. #27
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    I've taken chains off the bike to clean them in the past. I decided it's way too much like pushing a boulder up a mountain in Hades.

    I keep a rag on the stand where I keep my bikes. When I get home from a ride, I drag the chain through the rag for a couple of rotations. It gets a fair amount of dirt off. I use White Lightning Clean Ride (wax lube) on my off-road bikes. It's a lot like a dry lubricant, just leaves a different kind of residue. My chains generally stay fairly clean, although the soils in my riding areas are a little finer than what it sounds like you're dealing with, and the quick clean every ride seems almost as effective to me as taking the chain off and spending more time on it was. Since some of my rides can reach 20 or 30 miles in one shot, doing the full routine every time would be wildly unacceptable to me.

    How long does a chain last? It depends. If you ride a lot and the weather sucks, killing a chain in a month is not unheard of. I don't have as much time as I'd like, so it usually takes me about a season. I also keep a measuring tape on my bike stand, so I can keep an eye on chain stretch without undue drama.
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  28. #28
    Mountain Man Dan
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    Can't go wrong with Prolink Gold. Lubes well, and keeps the chain miraculously clean!
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  29. #29
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    In your OP you asked about cleaning sprockets. I use a paint brush dipped in my favorite degreaser. The bristles get in everywhere. Be careful not to get them snagged. Also spend an extra dollar for the next step up from the cheapest you can buy.

    BTW, I clean my chain about every 50 miles if I'm doing shorter rides. I hose off and relube every chance I get. (My bike too.)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncwhiz
    SO where can I ge tthis Dumonde stuff?
    Here you got.
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...0&category=208

    Good Dirt
    "I do whatever my Rice Cripsies tell me to!"

  31. #31
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    I need to oil mne after about 50 miles.

    I heard oil for chainsaws was a good or bicycles so I just bought some Echo bar and chain oil for about 5 dollars a quart. I'm to cheap to pay 5 dollars for a couple ounces of bicycle oil.

    I have been using some Mil-Spec oil thats pretty good at removing dirt. The rollers and the links facing the rollers stay pretty clean. When the rear sprockets starts getting gunked up I sray it down with WD-40. I have not taken my chain of the bike for cleaning that is after 500 miles.

  32. #32
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    I clean my chain every couple hundred miles or when it starts to make noise. Take the chain off, throw it into some paint thinner or mineral spirits and slosh it around. Spray the chain off with the air hose and repeat the procedure. A four lock tupperware works good for this. Orange cleaner degreaser really doesn't clean all that well unless you scrub the chain. While the chain is soaking the second time clean the cassette, rings and derailleur with orange cleaner. Spray the frame and rims with Windex. Put the chain back on and apply your favorite chain lube. I have more important things to do then clean my chain all the time. Some people say well your chain will where out premature if you don't keep it clean, I have to ask how much is a chain, cassette and rings? How often do you have to replace them if you keep the chain clean? How often do you have to replace them if you don't keep the chain clean? How much is your time worth? Personally I would rather be riding or getting things done so I can ride then cleaning metal bike parts that are going to wear and need replaced.

  33. #33
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    This is the stuff I have been using for a little over a year.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=508171

  34. #34
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    You'll likely have to try a few different lubes depending on your trail conditions and how often you want to lube/wax the chain. I've used White Lightning, and while great for my road bike, it's not so good for my MTB. I end up having to wax the MTB chain after every ride and it gets noisy sometimes before I'm finished with a ride. I've also used Finish Line Teflon Dry, and that works a bit better, although a little more sloppy. Be ready to clean your drive train!

    The lube I've settled on now is Tri-Flow, which works good and lasts longer than the wax. I definitely suggest trying what others in your area are using, but don't be afraid to try other lubes.
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