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  1. #1
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    bike comparison

    compare the diamondback recoil and the motobecane fantom and the dawes haymaker 1500
    Last edited by tmacrider21; 06-22-2011 at 06:23 PM.

  2. #2
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    I will take the time to do a thoughtful comparison for you.

  3. #3
    Fat-tired Roadie
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    Try riding the Recoil and see what you think.

    bikepedia.com now has a side-by-side comparison function so you can look at all the components on any two bikes. This site, shimanousa.com, and sram.com are good for figuring out what you're looking at, and how they compare.

    I don't think I'd be happy on any of them. But if you must have full suspension, they give you a lower cost of entry.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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    only the recoil is full susp. the others are both hardtails.

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    I am assuming when you say Motobecane Fantom you mean the Fantom HT Trail? Since its $180 more than the other two its obviously better equipped. The Haymaker 1500 beats the Recoil in every important spec except that its a hardtail instead of FS. To me, there is no comparison, the Haymaker is better hands down. But I personally would never buy any new FS bike under $1200.

    Now as to the Fantom vs. Haymaker, that's a tougher choice IMHO. The Fantom is better overall, but not sure if it's $180 better. The obvious wins for the Fantom are Dart 3 over Dart 2 (though neither is very good and likely you would eventually upgrade them) and 27 speed Deore shifters over 24 speed Alivio. Not positive, but I believe the FSA crank would be a win over the Haymakers TruVativ also. But the Haymaker does have the better rear derailleur (SLX over LX). I believe the Avid brakes on the Fantom are better than the Tektros on the Dawes. The rims are the same. The Fantom is obviously better, but I am just not sure its $180 better.
    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Screw the search function... you're new, ask the question(s). If anyone gets thier undies in a bunch it's thier problem.

  6. #6
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    BD can be confusing. I could have sworn the Haymaker was a FS model.

    SLX is not necessarily a better rear derailleur than LX. SLX is a new name of the same line, and many of components are different in name only. There is a SLX Shadow rear derailleur, though, and LX never had that design IIRC. I think it's kind of cool - I have a Deore Shadow on the back of my bike. I think the cable routing is a little cleaner, and I suspect it's functionally better too.

    OP - what kind of riding do you want to do? FWIW, I'm with the above poster on inexpensive full suspension bikes - every time I try one, and I've been trying some expensive ones lately too, I find myself really underwhelmed. But that's also reflective of the kind of riding I do.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    BD can be confusing. I could have sworn the Haymaker was a FS model.

    SLX is not necessarily a better rear derailleur than LX. SLX is a new name of the same line, and many of components are different in name only. There is a SLX Shadow rear derailleur, though, and LX never had that design IIRC. I think it's kind of cool - I have a Deore Shadow on the back of my bike. I think the cable routing is a little cleaner, and I suspect it's functionally better too.

    OP - what kind of riding do you want to do? FWIW, I'm with the above poster on inexpensive full suspension bikes - every time I try one, and I've been trying some expensive ones lately too, I find myself really underwhelmed. But that's also reflective of the kind of riding I do.
    Personally, I dont really see the confusion with Bikesdirect. Full suspension Dawes models are Roundhouse, not Haymaker. Now there are Motobecane Fantom hard tails and full suspension models. I was just guessing which model he is looking at, mostly because its the cheapest Fantom and in the same category (according to BD) as the Haymaker 1500.
    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Screw the search function... you're new, ask the question(s). If anyone gets thier undies in a bunch it's thier problem.

  8. #8
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    Haymaker and Roundhouse are both names for kinds of punch, and since BD's brands are almost all illusory, there are a billion "brand"/model combinations.

    Compared to, say, the Big Red S, where there are three hardtails in their main line and not that many FS bikes, and trim level is signified by "elite," "pro," "comp," whatever, or Trek and Cannondale, where things are numbered - yeah, pretty confusing. FWIW, I think that Kona and Fisher are pretty confusing too. Everything has a unique name. It takes poking through the spec. sheets or a look at the MSRP to figure out the order the specs fit into.

    Some day, when I'm a rich semiretired engineer living on patent residuals (ha!) I'll have a vanity bike company, and the bikes will just be named by purpose and spec. level. Want a FS cross-country race bike? Get the SwitchCycles FS Race XTR. Maybe I'll use some accepted euphemisms. Want a road bike for a fat guy who'll never ride far or fast? SwitchCycles Endurance Ultegra. Midlife crisis bike for a fat guy who'll never ride far or fast and doesn't have any friends? SwitchCycles Triathlon Dura-Ace. Etc.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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    Ok, I do agree that BD does have way too many different brands since they are fictional brands. Why the heck do they need hard tail, full suspension and 29ers from Gravity, Dawes, Windsor and Motobecane? Truthfully seems to me that just Motobecane would be fine. Or maybe one other if they wanted to do an entry level brand and a premium brand. But since they market all the brands on the 60% off a bugus fictional MSRP you can't consider any of them premium. I guess its probably just a way to cover up the fact that all their brands are "house brands". The more I look at BDs marketing the less I like them. But the value they offer, and the fact that Mike seems to be a very knowledgeable, helpful, and willing to listen rep keeps me interested in their products.
    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Screw the search function... you're new, ask the question(s). If anyone gets thier undies in a bunch it's thier problem.

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    Personally I find GTs lineup a little hard to decyfer as well. They have relatively low level hard tails named Avalanche, Aggressor and Karakoram, maybe one other as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Screw the search function... you're new, ask the question(s). If anyone gets thier undies in a bunch it's thier problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Test Dumby View Post
    Ok, I do agree that BD does have way too many different brands since they are fictional brands. Why the heck do they need hard tail, full suspension and 29ers from Gravity, Dawes, Windsor and Motobecane? Truthfully seems to me that just Motobecane would be fine. Or maybe one other if they wanted to do an entry level brand and a premium brand. But since they market all the brands on the 60% off a bugus fictional MSRP you can't consider any of them premium. I guess its probably just a way to cover up the fact that all their brands are "house brands". The more I look at BDs marketing the less I like them. But the value they offer, and the fact that Mike seems to be a very knowledgeable, helpful, and willing to listen rep keeps me interested in their products.
    Bogus fictional msrp's? I hope you don't mean on all of the bikes because then you'd feel pretty awkward, seeing as my brother is getting the GT Force 1.0 2010 model for 1600, and its retail is 3100. WHICH WE CHECKED ON SEVERAL OTHER WEBSITES. just saying.

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    The front fork and rear shock on the Recoil absolutely suck. They will be the first 2 things you will need/want to replace. It's also a bit heavy, I don't have any exact numbers, but I know it's not light.

  13. #13
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    You realize that last year's bikes never sell for MSRP?

    I'm not saying it's not a kickass deal. It's just not as kickass a deal as BD makes it out to be.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  14. #14
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    Recoils seem like they would be like they are a decent budget FS bike. But they aren't. I've rode them personally and sell them. It's like hauling one big ass boat behind you the thing is HEAVY. Can't get any air time, the rear suspension sucks, the fork sucks, the brakes suck, and the shifting sucks.

    I like DB a lot but it's just what you get when you buy a lower end FS bike, the suspension technology just isn't there and it makes the entire bike heavier and work less efficiently. You definitely get more bang for the buck with the Response Comp which has actually nice components on it.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmacrider21 View Post
    Bogus fictional msrp's? I hope you don't mean on all of the bikes because then you'd feel pretty awkward, seeing as my brother is getting the GT Force 1.0 2010 model for 1600, and its retail is 3100. WHICH WE CHECKED ON SEVERAL OTHER WEBSITES. just saying.
    Tmac, I am referriing solely to BDs "house brands", Motobecane, Windsor, Gravity and Dawes. They own and are the ONLY seller of current year models of those brands. And since they use a fixed pricing plan their price is the only price, no need for "MSRP" as with big brands sold by thousands of dealerss worldwide. They also buy non current model year GTs and sell them at substantal discounts. These discounts are real, but pretty typical for non current year bikes. And it appears they sell their non current year leftovers to several big EBAY stored, check out CHICABIKE, SPORTYMAMA and BIKEISLANDSITE. They are currently selling 2010 Motobecanes, Dawes, Gravitys and Windsor. Just this morning I bought a 2010 Windsor Cliff 4900 from Chicakike for $380 Shipped to my door and it has Deore/XT shifters and derailleurs, Truvatuv crankset, and los of WTB stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Screw the search function... you're new, ask the question(s). If anyone gets thier undies in a bunch it's thier problem.

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