Bad luck and MTB trails?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Bad luck and MTB trails?

    Does anybody else have bad luck when it comes to riding trails? I am new this year to MTB's but I love riding. But so far this year since June I have seperated my left shoulder, this past Sunday I have no idea what happened I highsided off the bike and got knocked out. I ended up with a concusion a few stiches and some bumps and bruises.

    Everyone I know other than people that ride think I need to get rid of the bike. I have no plans to do that but I don't under stand what I keep doing wrong. I am a very careful rider and if I have secound thoughts about an area I always get off the bike and walk but I still end up in the hospital.

    I started riding MTB's to stay in shape for track days on my motorcycle. So far I have had decent sucsess with that but have had my butt kicked by a bicycle. What gives?

  2. #2
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    Do you own a 1979 Malibu? That could be your problem

    Actually, it could be you just need more time to get your "biking legs" under you. Perhaps since you ride powered bikes and are likely pretty comfortable pushing things a little, you are pushing just a little too hard for your biking skill level at this stage. Sometimes, there are things that happen and there are no explanations--they even come in bunches. So, maybe slow it down just an increment and be more deliberate about building your bicycle skills. But, even with this in mind, I see skilled free riders and DHers that break bones and have to get stuff stapled and stitched.
    Last edited by Glide the Clyde; 12-01-2009 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #3
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    Highsided

    Quote Originally Posted by white79bu
    Does anybody else have bad luck when it comes to riding trails? I am new this year to MTB's but I love riding. But so far this year since June I have seperated my left shoulder, this past Sunday I have no idea what happened
    I highsided off the bike
    and got knocked out. I ended up with a concusion a few stiches and some bumps and bruises.

    Everyone I know other than people that ride think I need to get rid of the bike. I have no plans to do that but I don't under stand what I keep doing wrong. I am a very careful rider and if I have secound thoughts about an area I always get off the bike and walk but I still end up in the hospital.

    I started riding MTB's to stay in shape for track days on my motorcycle. So far I have had decent sucsess with that but have had my butt kicked by a bicycle. What gives?
    What does this term mean? Did you go flying over the handlebars?

    Are these crashes occuring on downhills?
    Don't let it get you down, but there's a good chance you were an accident.
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  4. #4
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by white79bu
    I am a very careful rider What gives?

    I would hazard a guess that you are being too cautious . Relax , let it flow .

  5. #5
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    I broke my leg my second year riding. Sh!t happens.
    :wq

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForrestJones
    What does this term mean?
    Highsiding is usually the result of braking too hard while leaned into a turn. So say you are taking a left turn, bike leaned to the left, all of the sudden you apply too much front brake, or somthing abruptly slows the bike causing a sudden shift of weight to the right side of the bike resulting in a crash off the bike to the right, which the right side would have been the highside in this instance. A lowside on the other hand would be having your bike wash out from under you in the same left hand turn, typically due to sudden loss of traction while leaned.

    Highsides look really cool to the observers too!!!
    Brandon
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLOWNDFIZ
    Highsiding is usually the result of braking too hard while leaned into a turn. So say you are taking a left turn, bike leaned to the left, all of the sudden you apply too much front brake, or somthing abruptly slows the bike causing a sudden shift of weight to the right side of the bike resulting in a crash off the bike to the right, which the right side would have been the highside in this instance. A lowside on the other hand would be having your bike wash out from under you in the same left hand turn, typically due to sudden loss of traction while leaned.

    Highsides look really cool to the observers too!!!
    It seems to me that one would have to be riding fairly aggressively to highside a mountain bike. I can't imagine it happening unless rocks, roots, or ruts are involved.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLOWNDFIZ
    Highsiding is usually the result of braking too hard while leaned into a turn. So say you are taking a left turn, bike leaned to the left, all of the sudden you apply too much front brake, or somthing abruptly slows the bike causing a sudden shift of weight to the right side of the bike resulting in a crash off the bike to the right, which the right side would have been the highside in this instance. A lowside on the other hand would be having your bike wash out from under you in the same left hand turn, typically due to sudden loss of traction while leaned.

    Highsides look really cool to the observers too!!!
    I think most motorcycle highsides actually happen because of over-reliance on the rear brake, followed by rider panic when a skid happens, resulting in the rider releasing the rear brake. The bike, which had been twisting out of a straight line during the skid, abruptly comes back to a straight line, throwing the rider. Anything that causes the bike to go from straight, to twisting, and back to straight again would do it.

    I think the OP was just experiencing the much more standard MTB OTB moment, and putting it into the motorcycle language he's more familiar with, though of course I could be wrong and he could have really highsided a bicycle.

    David B.

  9. #9
    Old rigid hardtail
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    Quote Originally Posted by white79bu
    Does anybody else have bad luck when it comes to riding trails? I am new this year to MTB's but I love riding. But so far this year since June I have seperated my left shoulder, this past Sunday I have no idea what happened I highsided off the bike and got knocked out. I ended up with a concusion a few stiches and some bumps and bruises.

    Everyone I know other than people that ride think I need to get rid of the bike. I have no plans to do that but I don't under stand what I keep doing wrong. I am a very careful rider and if I have secound thoughts about an area I always get off the bike and walk but I still end up in the hospital.

    I started riding MTB's to stay in shape for track days on my motorcycle. So far I have had decent sucsess with that but have had my butt kicked by a bicycle. What gives?
    OMG dude if you can't ride a bicycle stay off the motorcycle.....I mean you highsided on a trail???? you must pedal preeeeety fast

  10. #10
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    Personally I did a shoulder sep earlier this year too. I am back on my bike, but after plenty of reading and also investigating the area of my OTB. I determined it was because I was being too cautious ( was a root that took me out which would have been cleared if travelling at normal speed). You need to stay relaxed, but also work on what may have caused it. Think like your moto, if you made a mistake, find it, fix it, and practice so you won't do it again. But as others say, if you stay tense and think you are going to wipe out. Then murphy's law states you will.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbeinct
    I think most motorcycle highsides actually happen because of over-reliance on the rear brake, followed by rider panic when a skid happens, resulting in the rider releasing the rear brake. The bike, which had been twisting out of a straight line during the skid, abruptly comes back to a straight line, throwing the rider. Anything that causes the bike to go from straight, to twisting, and back to straight again would do it.

    David B.
    I've actually witnesses my friend lose control of his bike while leaned. His panic led him to applying the rear brake which stands the bike up causing him to go straight off of the road in a turn. Once off the road he applied too much total brakes and the bike slid out from under him. To much rear brake in that same corner would have locked the rear resulting in a slide out of the rear which would have lowsided the bike. I do see what you are saying and I agree that it could happen but a standard "highside" is usually very sudden stop of the front resulting in basically an uncontrolable catapult off the bike. I've actually experienced something along the lines of what you described while leaned over in a turn I applied too much gas resulting in the rear tire spinning exiting a corner, letting off the gas stood the bike up and once back in the gas I had the biggest tank slapper of my life.
    Brandon
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  12. #12
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    actually moto high-sides are due to a loss of traction at the rear followed by a re-gaining of said traction.....be it too much throttle, too much rear brake, gravel, painted lines, etc....

    ...I miss my moto

  13. #13
    ozz
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    Every friend I've brought into MTBing spent his first few months getting injured and breaking parts. After they've been riding for a few months and get a little experience the injuries and crashes diminish.

  14. #14
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    RE: Going to slow and conservatively.

    What is that saying, "Speed saves until it kills." Something like that.

    You've learned something when you realize that you need to speed up, not use the brakes, pre/mid accident.

    It took me one broken thumb, messed up wrist, shoulder seperation and a herniated neck
    to learn the importance of speed. The upside is that your crashes are more spectacular when you do crash.
    Nobody cares...........

  15. #15
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    Dude, it's mounatin biking! If you ain't fallin down and breaking stuff once in a while, you ain't doing it right!

  16. #16
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    It's just like driving a car. If you're always crashing, slow down a little.
    To the troll mobile, away...

  17. #17
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    And don't be afraid to ride easier trails.

    For example, I prefer more fireroad when I am doing solo night rides. But I want to make sure I get big climbs so I keep working it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by white79bu
    What gives?

    Well, dja piss anyone off lately ? Just a thought cause mountain bike isnít really as hard as moto..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bad luck and MTB trails?-voodoo-doll_love.jpg  


  19. #19
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    I guess the proper term would be an endo more than a highside. I personally don't remember a thing. I have learned from my shoulder seperation that you need momentum when mountain biking. I have picked up the pace alot since then but I need to gain some confidence when going over roots and bridges.

  20. #20
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    As a 1st year motorcycle rider, I do use almost 90% front brake. That is a formula for disaster offroad.

    On the mountain bike, I drag my rear brake and and pump the front. On my road bike, I use almost only front brake.

    But when I first started mountain biking, I was in abject terror from steep chutes. Even though you are taking twisties at 80mph+, seeing your front wheel drop down can be scary.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLOWNDFIZ
    I've actually witnesses my friend lose control of his bike while leaned. His panic led him to applying the rear brake which stands the bike up causing him to go straight off of the road in a turn. Once off the road he applied too much total brakes and the bike slid out from under him. To much rear brake in that same corner would have locked the rear resulting in a slide out of the rear which would have lowsided the bike. I do see what you are saying and I agree that it could happen but a standard "highside" is usually very sudden stop of the front resulting in basically an uncontrolable catapult off the bike. I've actually experienced something along the lines of what you described while leaned over in a turn I applied too much gas resulting in the rear tire spinning exiting a corner, letting off the gas stood the bike up and once back in the gas I had the biggest tank slapper of my life.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with you and agree with SMB600 below. Certainly none of the moto classes I've taken describe a high side like you do. Tank slappers, which I've never had tho I have gotten some wobble, are more like what you're talking about.

    Either way I think we can agree it would be very difficult to get a true high side on a bicycle. I think the OP has said it was more likely an endo.

    David B.

  22. #22
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    I've had the front wheel wash out, which I corrected by turning in, and when I got traction again the bike when inside, and I fly over it to the outside.

    Not sure if that's really a high side, but it does hurt.

  23. #23
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    Lol, no worries, it happens.
    This year is my first year really getting serious about mtbing, so I bought a brand new (used) bike on a friday in June. Took my new to me bike straight to the trail that same day. I was having a blast, until I went over my bars, broke my hip and elbow, and pulled a bone chip out of the ball of my big toe.
    Of course all the non bikers told me I should sell my bike (it's cursed, blah, blah, blah), but since my recovery, I've been accident free. Knock on wood, so I don't wreck tomorrow...

  24. #24
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    Sounds like your just pushing yourself so hard that when you crash you do some serious damage. As you ride more your will get better and crash less. My first Ride on a real trail I crashed 7 or so times. I have yet to break a bone, but I have done some serious damage including a 4 inch long cut just above my knee.
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  25. #25
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    be smart but at the same time "if your not falling your not trying hard enough".

  26. #26
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    Could you possibly be counter steering? I had done this previously, coming from a Moto and jumping onto mountain bikes. $h!t happens. Just like on the bike - rubber side down, shiny side up. It doesn't always go that way though. Which leads me to my motto: "I've never owned a bike (Moto or MTB) I didn't down."

    Go back to the basics and incorporate some of the things you know from riding the moto...Keep eyes and head up, look through the turns, and work on being smooth. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast! Heal up quick and get back out there.

    High side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85C-f...eature=related

    Low Side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EnzmWVnTXA
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by California L33
    It's just like driving a car. If you're always crashing, slow down a little.
    Actually, I was preaching exactly the opposite. Speed saves in MTB'ing.
    Nobody cares...........

  28. #28
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    you should have seen my legs when I was just starting out, looks like I got owned by a gang of S&M Midgets. Gashes and slashes all over them, not to mention almost breaking my wrist and shoulder a few times, didn't but came pretty close, lots of bruises and swelling.

    All or most were due to hesitation, sometimes I over did it *hehe* guess I have an overdeveloped sense of my own super powers.

    This is not a kiddie sport, it's dangerous even going easy you can get hurt. Hell people get paralyzed riding MTB's.

    Anyhow could be your going to hard, could be your hesitating, you'll have to work that out and try to correct it. Could be your riding trails that are to hard for you.

  29. #29
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    I know this is a slight side topic, but this thread made me think about it.

    How many people have done martial arts and know how to hit the ground and dissipate energy without hurting themselves?

    I almost never get hurt as I travel fast enough that I have time to think before I land, then duck and roll well. I have years of Judo behind me,

    So does everyone here know how to land?

    If not, take 2-3 sessions of judo/jui jitsu etc etc. The first thing they teach you is how to fall!

    Anyone else think this is a good tip?

  30. #30
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    I know this is a slight side topic, but this thread made me think about it.

    How many people have done martial arts and know how to hit the ground and dissipate energy without hurting themselves?

    I almost never get hurt as I travel fast enough that I have time to think before I land, then duck and roll well. I have years of Judo behind me,

    So does everyone here know how to land?

    If not, take 2-3 sessions of judo/jui jitsu etc etc. The first thing they teach you is how to fall!

    Anyone else think this is a good tip?

    Yep , tuck and roll , there is a thread somewhere on here about that very subject . Everyone knows how to crash , just dont know how to do it right .

  31. #31
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    Suck it up princess! Just kidding.

    I've got 2 concussions this year and some massive bruises. It's all good. In my case it came from trying to do too much at the end of the ride when I was tired. Just keep going. You'll be fine. If you don't ever fall, well, you ain't trying hard enough.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    I know this is a slight side topic, but this thread made me think about it.

    How many people have done martial arts and know how to hit the ground and dissipate energy without hurting themselves?

    I almost never get hurt as I travel fast enough that I have time to think before I land, then duck and roll well. I have years of Judo behind me,

    So does everyone here know how to land?

    If not, take 2-3 sessions of judo/jui jitsu etc etc. The first thing they teach you is how to fall!

    Anyone else think this is a good tip?
    Yeah, it's good if it works. I've walked away from a lot of crashes from tucking and rolling, but even though I landed good on this last crash, I still broke my hip and elbow.

  33. #33
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    The other trick is to land on something flat =-)

  34. #34
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    I learned how to fall when landing under a parachute... I've eaten it OTB a few times, and only ONCE I rolled, and I'm 100% sure it was NOT intentional hehe.

    I once saw an article suggesting is a good idea to actually learn how to fall... simply ride over something soft, like grass, and roll off the bike with speed...

    Even though I don't actually go out to practice, I end up practicing it anyways.

    BTW, pics anyone? :-)

    My worst bruise yet... riding for 6 months or so.

  35. #35
    The White Jeff W
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    Quote Originally Posted by white79bu
    I guess the proper term would be an endo more than a highside. I personally don't remember a thing. I have learned from my shoulder seperation that you need momentum when mountain biking. I have picked up the pace alot since then but I need to gain some confidence when going over roots and bridges.

    You might want to think about an upgrade to your fork. My first MTB was constantly trying to throw me over the bars until I replaced the crappy Dart II fork. That bike nearly killed me

    Since you ride moto you probably already know this but make sure your weight is shifted back when going down hill on rough terrain. You might even benefit from an adjustment to your cockpit. Move the seat back a bit, shorter stem, etc, to move you weight back on the bike.

  36. #36
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    Better and newer components are skill compensator's.
    So, yes, buying a new fork may reduce your crashes, but so will learning technique.

    What bike do you ride?

    I have about as much skill compensation on my bike as possible, probably why I can thrash it but rarely crash.

    The best cyclist I rode with had a 20 year old junker bike,
    He cycled upto a 3' gap with a 2' drop. stopped, cycled backwards a few feet, went into a stationary wheelie and rolled upto the edge and jumped the gap.
    This was all on a 20 year old halfords special.

    I was impressed.

    I am not sure if I had a point, but just in case i will add one below.

    moral: getting a better bike may reduce crashes, but will not make you a better rider, learning to ride will have the same effect.

  37. #37
    Ride it 'til it breaks
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    white79bu, I would argue that you need to slow down a bit until you get your skills up. Or start with less challenging trails. I haven't gotten hurt yet from going too slow. Every time I "crash" from going too slow, I'm able to catch myself before getting hurt.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by white79bu
    I guess the proper term would be an endo more than a highside. I personally don't remember a thing. I have learned from my shoulder seperation that you need momentum when mountain biking. I have picked up the pace alot since then but I need to gain some confidence when going over roots and bridges.
    Momentum is important, but not quite as important as when you CHANGE said momentum. Do your braking before your obstacles, turns, etc. For example, approaching a log of any size at any speed, when you get within a couple feet of it, no matter how fast you're going, braking action will put enough weight on the front wheel that the obstacle becomes impossible to negotiate. Coming down off of even small drops - stay off the brakes, as long as you're moving forward, the bike will want to roll out of all but the steepest drops, just keep your weight back and let it roll. It's one of the things that still messes with my head, but it gets easier every time it goes well.

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