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  1. #1
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    Why San Diego is a better Beer City than Ashville, NC

    Had some friends down for the weekend I have not seen in years and find out they are just as into Craft beer as we are, so we spent the day visiting a few of the Breweries in San Diego:

    Tastings at the following:
    Alesmith
    Hess
    Rough Draft
    Societe
    Ballast Point
    Mission
    Dinner at Stone.

    Some pics from the day:


















    It was a good Saturday!
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  2. #2
    No no...the OTHER LA.
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    Clearly a better beer city than Ashville ever could be. Thanks for setting us straight!

    /thread

    (oh, also /sarcasm)
    Last edited by RichardinLA; 10-29-2012 at 01:37 PM. Reason: typo!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardinLA View Post
    Clearly a better beer city than Ashville ever could be. Thanks for setting us straight!

    /thread

    (oh, also /sarcasm)
    San Diego Beer > Asheville Beer.

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    There is no denying that San Diego is pretty much the capital of craft beer.

    My only problem with it as a beer city is that it's not really a "city". Stone is 34 miles from downtown for god's sake.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    There is no denying that San Diego is pretty much the capital of craft beer.

    My only problem with it as a beer city is that it's not really a "city". Stone is 34 miles from downtown for god's sake.
    Beer County USA?


    Bend Beer > Asheville Beer.


    That a better comparison?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Beer County USA?


    Bend Beer > Asheville Beer.


    That a better comparison?
    "Beer County USA" is absolutely the case.

    And yes, while I haven't been to either I would have to say Bend>Asheville just in terms of beer.

  7. #7
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    Whoa Whoa Whoa there fellas.

    Fort Collins > asheville/san diago/Bend etc...

    I think we all have a little different preference on this matter. I will not even attempt to deny the fact that San Diago (aka whales vajaja...Anchorman 'a whales vagina' - YouTube) is a solid beer town, but does not mean I would want to live there. Give me Mountains, ability to drive to Solitude, and brewery density per square mile, and I would take Fort Collins, Bend, Portland over San Diago any day for where I want to live. Take all of this with a big grain of salt as I am not a fan of SoCal.

    Ashville is also small at the moment, 5 years from now is when it may be a contender after NB, SN and Oscar Blues move in.

    P.S. Cool pics btw, moar please
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    Yeah, we do have some epic beer around here. Thank God, because the trails are getting bulldozed. The riding in Asheville has SD beat and with the housing market in a slump you can get yourself a nice house for like $16 bucks. I just closed a deal on a cozy little french cheateau style home.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Whoa Whoa Whoa there fellas.

    Fort Collins > asheville/san diago/Bend etc...

    I think we all have a little different preference on this matter. I will not even attempt to deny the fact that San Diago (aka whales vajaja...Anchorman 'a whales vagina' - YouTube) is a solid beer town, but does not mean I would want to live there. Give me Mountains, ability to drive to Solitude, and brewery density per square mile, and I would take Fort Collins, Bend, Portland over San Diago any day for where I want to live. Take all of this with a big grain of salt as I am not a fan of SoCal.

    Ashville is also small at the moment, 5 years from now is when it may be a contender after NB, SN and Oscar Blues move in.

    P.S. Cool pics btw, moar please
    San Diego Beer > Fort Collins Beer.



    Oh, and good luck getting your surf on in any over the other spots!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    I just closed a deal on a cozy little french cheateau style home.
    Nice! Gotta change that winery over to a brewery ASAP.

  11. #11
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    I am very pleased to learn about the superiority of San Diego as a beer city over the extremely pathetic and anemic Asheville, NC area. I have heard that because of the extreme Western nature of the city/county of San Diego that drinking the beer there makes one walk like a very manly cowboy man. Can you confirm this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Whoa Whoa Whoa there fellas.

    Fort Collins > asheville/san diago/Bend etc...

    I think we all have a little different preference on this matter. I will not even attempt to deny the fact that San Diago (aka whales vajaja...Anchorman 'a whales vagina' - YouTube) is a solid beer town, but does not mean I would want to live there. Give me Mountains, ability to drive to Solitude, and brewery density per square mile, and I would take Fort Collins, Bend, Portland over San Diago any day for where I want to live. Take all of this with a big grain of salt as I am not a fan of SoCal.

    Ashville is also small at the moment, 5 years from now is when it may be a contender after NB, SN and Oscar Blues move in.

    P.S. Cool pics btw, moar please
    Ultimate Beer City...

    Beer, beaches, girls and possibly weather (a little too dry for my tastes) of San Diego. Subtract the traffic, sprawl, strip malls and general dbaginess of So Cal. Then add the mountains and trails of Bend, Asheville and Ft. Collins. Add the food of a San Francisco or Portland. Subtract the pretentiousness of those places. Add lots of jobs and cheap real estate. I'm there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Ultimate Beer City...

    Beer, beaches, girls and possibly weather (a little too dry for my tastes) of San Diego. Subtract the traffic, sprawl, strip malls and general dbaginess of So Cal. Then add the mountains and trails of Bend, Asheville and Ft. Collins. Add the food of a San Francisco or Portland. Subtract the pretentiousness of those places. Add lots of jobs and cheap real estate. I'm there.
    Where is this utopia of which you speak?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    San Diego Beer > Fort Collins Beer.



    Oh, and good luck getting your surf on in any over the other spots!
    What? Surfing is huge on Michigan's West Coast where Bell's, Founders and New Holland are. They even do it in Indiana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Ultimate Beer City...

    Beer, beaches, girls and possibly weather (a little too dry for my tastes) of San Diego. Subtract the traffic, sprawl, strip malls and general dbaginess of So Cal. Then add the mountains and trails of Bend, Asheville and Ft. Collins. Add the food of a San Francisco or Portland. Subtract the pretentiousness of those places. Add lots of jobs and cheap real estate. I'm there.
    Im packin my bags, tell me where this is
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    San Diego Beer > Fort Collins Beer.



    Oh, and good luck getting your surf on in any over the other spots!
    Not a surfer, but i can hit trails riding from my doorstep

    Do a google image search of Fort Collins = mountains, solitude, epic
    Same search of San Diego = City, beach, city, city, city

    I guess I just don't like people as much as you do.
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  17. #17
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    It's about time those asshats who proclaim Asheville a better beer city than San Diego; anywhere in Oregon; etc., are put in their place!!

    Lovely city, to be sure. But let's not get pear-shaped delusional!

    (No asshats were harmed in the typing of this response. We're all beer lovers, after all!)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    I guess I just don't like people as much as you do.
    No way man, I know all about FC. Never been there, but it looks wonderful. Especially from what I've seen that you share

    And no, I don't like people very much. At least a ton of people. SD is pretty spread out, MUCH better than the Bay Area in terms of population density.

    Long term goals include owning a home in both SD and Bend. And visiting FC of course. Possibly even living in one of those other areas.

    And you'd dig SD - solid mountain biking, bouldering, and beaches. And you can ride year-round without snow.

    And seriously - the beer is awesome.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    No way man, I know all about FC. Never been there, but it looks wonderful. Especially from what I've seen that you share

    And no, I don't like people very much. At least a ton of people. SD is pretty spread out, MUCH better than the Bay Area in terms of population density.

    Long term goals include owning a home in both SD and Bend. And visiting FC of course. Possibly even living in one of those other areas.

    And you'd dig SD - solid mountain biking, bouldering, and beaches. And you can ride year-round without snow.

    And seriously - the beer is awesome.

    Well maybe its ok then, just very very low on my places to visit. In fact I plan on going to Ashville in the next couple years, as well as Charlette (some amazing history out there) and hit up the Pisgah for riding. No plans for SD, though I will never dispute that good beer is produced there.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    What? Surfing is huge on Michigan's West Coast where Bell's, Founders and New Holland are. They even do it in Indiana.
    Unsalted. I still need to watch this doc.

    Brewery Vivant at the beach...nothing better.


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  21. #21
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    Nothing to see here. Move along.

    Seattle is terrible. Lousy beer and no decent riding. Move to Ashville or Grand Rapids instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Seattle is terrible. Lousy beer and no decent riding. Move to Ashville or Grand Rapids instead.
    Seattle is an awesome city. One of my favorites really. Its proximity to the Olympic Peninsula/San Juan Islands/Cascades make it an amazing destination for outdoor enthusiasts.

    However, the quality of the beer/breweries should be better than they are frankly. Seattle was such a huge part of the initial microbrewery movement in the 80's and 90's I'm not sure why it has fallen behind over the last ten years or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    It's about time those asshats who proclaim Asheville a better beer city than San Diego; anywhere in Oregon; etc., are put in their place!!

    Lovely city, to be sure. But let's not get pear-shaped delusional!

    (No asshats were harmed in the typing of this response. We're all beer lovers, after all!)
    This is what I was going for. I only gave this thread that title because I don't think Ashville deserves to be on the Radar for the best beer city, that whole vote thing that happens every year is obviously broken. Of course any vote that takes place online is going be skewed.

    I just had a wonderful day of beer tasting, probably the most I have been able to do since my stay in the Hospital this past summer, and I wanted to share.

    To the person who mentioned that Stone is 34 miles north of SD, yes that is true, Stone is technically in the City of Escondido. In fact a number of Breweries are located in North San Diego County. Just like many people refer to parts of LA that are actually other incorporated Cities, most people refer to all of San Diego county as being "San Diego".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Seattle is an awesome city. One of my favorites really. Its proximity to the Olympic Peninsula/San Juan Islands/Cascades make it an amazing destination for outdoor enthusiasts.

    However, the quality of the beer/breweries should be better than they are frankly. Seattle was such a huge part of the initial microbrewery movement in the 80's and 90's I'm not sure why it has fallen behind over the last ten years or so.
    It's coming back...just under the radar a bit. While there are a few production breweries up there, most of the breweries aren't big enough to sustain distribution outside of the state. But beers like Wisdom Seeker from Black Raven show that they can definitely make some world-class beers.

    Seattle's a great place with awesome food and one of the best vibes of any major city in the US, but I can't take rain 40% of the year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    It's coming back...just under the radar a bit. While there are a few production breweries up there, most of the breweries aren't big enough to sustain distribution outside of the state. But beers like Wisdom Seeker from Black Raven show that they can definitely make some world-class beers.

    Seattle's a great place with awesome food and one of the best vibes of any major city in the US, but I can't take rain 40% of the year.
    You're a fountain of knowledge jtmartino. I've heard of Black Raven (seen their ads in BA mag and other places) but have not tried any of their beers. Will try to so so next time we are up there. In terms of breweries, we usually go to Elysian when we are in Seattle, which I have enjoyed.

    My dream living scenario would be spending half the year in Santa Cruz and half the year in the San Juans but then again I am a super white boy who doesn't tan and doesn't mind the rain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post

    To the person who mentioned that Stone is 34 miles north of SD, yes that is true, Stone is technically in the City of Escondido. In fact a number of Breweries are located in North San Diego County. Just like many people refer to parts of LA that are actually other incorporated Cities, most people refer to all of San Diego county as being "San Diego".
    Yes, it's not San Diego's fault it's a massive sprawling amoeba. I just don't think it can be compared to places like Portland when talking about beer "cities".

    In regards to L.A. and SoCal in general...I worked with this girl years ago and I asked her where she was from...

    Her-"L.A."
    Me-"Oh. Cool. Where abouts?"
    Her-"Ojai"

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Yes, it's not San Diego's fault it's a massive sprawling amoeba. I just don't think it can be compared to places like Portland when talking about beer "cities".

    In regards to L.A. and SoCal in general...I worked with this girl years ago and I asked her where she was from...

    Her-"L.A."
    Me-"Oh. Cool. Where abouts?"
    Her-"Ojai"
    Exactly, There is no true break between San Diego City Limits and my House in Oceanside, however the City of Carlsbad and Encinitas are both incorporated and they are in-between, however the general feel is that even where I live is considered "San Diego".

    Still, 6 of the seven Breweries I visited are within San Diego City Limits.


    Ojai is in Ventura County, about an hour drive just to get to LA County.... lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    You're a fountain of knowledge jtmartino. I've heard of Black Raven (seen their ads in BA mag and other places) but have not tried any of their beers. Will try to so so next time we are up there. In terms of breweries, we usually go to Elysian when we are in Seattle, which I have enjoyed.
    We kind of like being under the radar up here after almost two decades of a grunge/hipster chic rep (see Hype for more info...).

    You could probably call Black Raven part of the third-wave movement here over the last couple of years -- an explosion of new breweries and, recently, distilleries. And one reason why you might not see distro outside of WA is that we drink most of it here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    My dream living scenario would be spending half the year in Santa Cruz and half the year in the San Juans but then again I am a super white boy who doesn't tan and doesn't mind the rain.
    Rain's good for the trail -- our soils drain well and we've got lots of vert. Come on up any time -- that goes for you too jmartino. We'll drink some beers and shred some gnar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Rain's good for the trail -- our soils drain well and we've got lots of vert. Come on up any time -- that goes for you too jmartino. We'll drink some beers and shred some gnar.
    I seriously love it up there. Find my wife and I a job in Anacortes and I'll start packing.

  30. #30
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    I'm heading down to San Diego this friday to spend the weekend with my son. I sampled Port Brewing's High Tide the other day, I want more!! Really good. Hopefully I can make the rounds to sample the local brews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by norton55 View Post
    I'm heading down to San Diego this friday to spend the weekend with my son. I sampled Port Brewing's High Tide the other day, I want more!! Really good. Hopefully I can make the rounds to sample the local brews.
    Where does he live? Flying or driving?

    The thing about San Diego is that no matter where you are there is amazing beer within a 5 mile radius.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Where does he live? Flying or driving?

    The thing about San Diego is that no matter where you are there is amazing beer within a 5 mile radius.
    He lives close to the Padres stadium. Santa Rosa has direct flights which makes it so much easier for us coastal folks to travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by norton55 View Post
    He lives close to the Padres stadium. Santa Rosa has direct flights which makes it so much easier for us coastal folks to travel.
    Mission Brewery is only 2 blocks from Petco Park downtown. There is also a Rock Bottom Brewery in the Gas Lamp District downtown which has won some awards. Those are both walking distance.

    The next closest would be Ballast Point tasting room at the Home Brew Mark in Linda Vista, Pizza Port in Ocean Beach which are both just a 10 min drive from Downtown. Most of the others in my original post are in the area called "Mira Mesa" which is about 15-20 min from downtown SD.

    There are also a ton of great beer bars in the downtown and North Park area.

    Check out the west coaster for a plethora of info on the SD Beer scene, they also have a nice Craft Beer interactive map:

    SD Brewing Industry Watch 2012 – West Coaster - Serving the San Diego Craft Beer Community

    It is supposed to be in the low 80's this weekend so you will enjoy some great fall weather.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Rain's good for the trail -- our soils drain well and we've got lots of vert. Come on up any time -- that goes for you too jmartino. We'll drink some beers and shred some gnar.
    Sounds awesome. I'd take moist and tacky any day over desert dust that you get in SD. You really have to drive an hour to hit the better stuff down there.

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    I'm going to throw the Boston MA area into the mix. I've got 15 miles of single track out the door, 20 miles North of Boston. Great beer and breweries everywhere. 45 minutes to the beach. SD, really? lots of city there, not my cup of tea. Lots of great riding in pedaling distance and more in 1/2 hour ride. I would put the Boston MA beer as tops anywhere. Good thing we have choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Mission Brewery is only 2 blocks from Petco Park downtown. There is also a Rock Bottom Brewery in the Gas Lamp District downtown which has won some awards. Those are both walking distance.

    The next closest would be Ballast Point tasting room at the Home Brew Mark in Linda Vista, Pizza Port in Ocean Beach which are both just a 10 min drive from Downtown. Most of the others in my original post are in the area called "Mira Mesa" which is about 15-20 min from downtown SD.

    There are also a ton of great beer bars in the downtown and North Park area.

    Check out the west coaster for a plethora of info on the SD Beer scene, they also have a nice Craft Beer interactive map:

    SD Brewing Industry Watch 2012 – West Coaster - Serving the San Diego Craft Beer Community

    Thanks for the info. If you are in the area I'll buy the first round!

    It is supposed to be in the low 80's this weekend so you will enjoy some great fall weather.

    Thanks for the info. If you are in the area I'll buy the 1st round!

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    I'm going to throw the Boston MA area into the mix. I've got 15 miles of single track out the door, 20 miles North of Boston. Great beer and breweries everywhere. 45 minutes to the beach. SD, really? lots of city there, not my cup of tea. Lots of great riding in pedaling distance and more in 1/2 hour ride. I would put the Boston MA beer as tops anywhere. Good thing we have choices.
    Really!

    SD Beer > Boston Beer
    SD Beach > Boston Beach
    SD Weather > Boston Weather
    SD Population Density (3500/sq. mile) > Boston Population Density (6900/ sq. mile)

    Not sure about the MTB scene in Boston as I've never ridden there, but it is a pretty flat area. I'd put east county SD riding up against anything in Boston.

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    Quote Originally Posted by norton55 View Post
    Thanks for the info. If you are in the area I'll buy the 1st round!
    If you're down for a quick drive, head east on Highway 8 and go hit Alpine (especially if you like IPAs.) They are a tiny spot but they serve good BBQ and make some of the best beer in the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Really!

    SD Beer > Boston Beer
    SD Beach > Boston Beach
    SD Weather > Boston Weather
    SD Population Density (3500/sq. mile) > Boston Population Density (6900/ sq. mile)

    Not sure about the MTB scene in Boston as I've never ridden there, but it is a pretty flat area. I'd put east county SD riding up against anything in Boston.
    Seriously, and I'm no hater of Boston nor a huge fan of SD.

    Beer wise they are not in the same conversation.

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    wow Hess has grown a good amount since i have been there, use to be a a small room. My buddy keeps telling me about societe, and how good it is. It is on my list when i get to San Diego. Thank you for sharing the pictures. Hey Klurejr what events are you going to San Diego Beer week???
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    Quote Originally Posted by blumena84 View Post
    wow Hess has grown a good amount since i have been there, use to be a a small room. My buddy keeps telling me about societe, and how good it is. It is on my list when i get to San Diego. Thank you for sharing the pictures. Hey Klurejr what events are you going to San Diego Beer week???
    Yeah Hess took over the space next door and knocked down the wall, so they literally doubled in size... lol.

    They did have plans on the wall for a new bigger production facility in North Park which looks pretty awesome.

    Societe makes great beer, and have a killer setup. They are right next to my office that I am in on Tuesday and Thursday so i get to enjoy the sweet smell of cereal on their brew days! They have a major Barrel Aging setup and should one day rival The Bruery which would be awesome.

    I have yet to plan out my SD Beer week, shame on me. Perhaps the wife and I can look that over tonight and make some plans.
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    So, sounds like a challenge. Overall quality of life. How's that SD traffic ? I would stack up Boston/ New England beer against anywhere. Yes we have winter. Lets stick to Beer. Your top 5 in a throwdown ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Lets stick to Beer. Your top 5 in a throwdown ?
    Once again, I personally wouldn't want to live in SD (even though traffic is no where near L.A. bad btw) but in terms of beer, no metro area can really compare. This from a bay area native that was bred to hate SoCal.

    SD Breweries...

    AleSmith Brewing Company - 9368 Cabot Drive, San Diego
    The Lost Abbey - 155 Mata Way Ste 104, San Marcos
    Alpine Beer Company - 2351 Alpine Blvd., Alpine
    Societe Brewing Co. - 8262 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, San Diego
    Stone Brewing Co. - 1999 Citracado Parkway, Escondido
    Pizza Port Ocean Beach - 1956 Bacon St., San Diego
    Pizza Port Carlsbad - 571 Carlsbad Village Dr., Carlsbad
    Port Brewing Company - 155 Mata Way #104, San Marcos
    Pizza Port Solana Beach - 135 North Highway 101, Solana Beach
    Ballast Point Brewing Company - 10051 Old Grove Road Suite B, San Diego
    Latitude 33° Brewing Company - 1430 Vantage Court, Suite 104, Vista
    Green Flash Brewing Co. - 6550 Mira Mesa Blvd., San Diego
    Blind Lady Ale House & Automatic Brewing Co. - 3416 Adams Ave., San Diego
    Hess Brewing Company - 7955 Silverton Ave., San Diego
    Rock Bottom Restaurant and Brewery - 8980 Via La Jolla Dr., La Jolla
    Rock Bottom Restaurant and Brewery - 401 G Street, San Diego
    Coronado Brewing Company - 170 Orange Ave., Coronado
    Monkey Paw Pub & Brewery - 805 16th St, San Diego
    Aztec Brewing Company - 2330 La Mirada Dr Ste 300, Vista
    Gordon Biersch - 5010 Mission Center Road, San Diego
    The Beer Company - 602 Broadway Ste 101, San Diego
    Iron Fist Brewing Company - 1305 Hot Springs Way #101, Vista
    Mission Brewery - 1441 L Street, San Diego
    Karl Strauss Brewing Company - 5985 Santa Fe Street, San Diego
    Mother Earth Brew Co. - 2055 Thibodo Rd. Suite H, Vista

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    So, sounds like a challenge. Overall quality of life. How's that SD traffic ? I would stack up Boston/ New England beer against anywhere. Yes we have winter. Lets stick to Beer. Your top 5 in a throwdown ?
    I ride a motorcycle to work year round because the weather is so good, so traffic is not an issue.....

    When it comes to beer there is no comparison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    So, sounds like a challenge. Overall quality of life. How's that SD traffic ? I would stack up Boston/ New England beer against anywhere. Yes we have winter. Lets stick to Beer. Your top 5 in a throwdown ?
    Traffic? Are you serious? Way worse in Boston. San Diego is not LA. Boston pops up a bunch of times on here before SD.

    INRIX National Traffic Scorecard

    But since we're talking beer, let's limit you to within an hour of downtown Boston. You can't compare one city to an entire region of the country. I'll do the same for SD.

    Top five breweries:

    1. Pizza Port
    2. Alpine
    3. Alesmith
    4. Port/Lost Abbey
    5. Toss up between Stone and Ballast Point

    Your turn.

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    Oh snap, I'm done. Greenflash, Stone and Pizza Port, got any couch space? I'm great on the BBQ too.
    My five: Sam Adams, Cambridge Brewing, Harpoon, Mayflower, Smuttynose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Oh snap, I'm done. Greenflash, Stone and Pizza Port, got any couch space? I'm great on the BBQ too.
    My five: Sam Adams, Cambridge Brewing, Harpoon, Mayflower, Smuttynose.
    You could have at least gone with Clown Shoes. Smuttynose isn't even in MA!

    Boston is a great city. We stayed with a friend a few years back when she was going to grad school at BU. She lived half a block off Hanover. Prosciutto/Tomato/Mozzarella/Basil on a roll with Balsamic and Olive Oil. I could live on those things.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Once again, I personally wouldn't want to live in SD (even though traffic is no where near L.A. bad btw) but in terms of beer, no metro area can really compare. This from a bay area native that was bred to hate SoCal.
    You'd like North County Coastal a lot, I think. Del Mar, Solana, Cardiff, Encinitas, Carlsbad, Oceanside. Totally different vibe than SD proper or south county.

    The areas around Balboa Park can be cool too - North/South Park, University Heights, Hillcrest, etc. Great beer bars too.

    I wouldn't live in Coastal SD south of La Jolla (except for maybe Point Loma.) I also wouldn't live anywhere else except coastal north county (La Jolla and north).


    Drawbacks of SD include:

    - Tourists
    - Strip Malls
    - Urban Sprawl
    - Young people in the military
    - Relatively expensive

    Population density is a lot less than the Bay Area, which is nice, but it makes tourism more noticeable. Urban sprawl and strip malls (think Westfields and shopping centers with Best Buy as a focal point) are everywhere. The young people in the military stationed in San Diego is a pretty big issue - lots of drinking, fighting, DUIs, and overall tool-baggery. It's less expensive than the Bay Area, but still expensive compared to other parts of the country.

    The area between La Jolla and Carlsbad doesn't suffer from these things as much.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    You'd like North County Coastal a lot, I think. Del Mar, Solana, Cardiff, Encinitas, Carlsbad, Oceanside. Totally different vibe than SD proper or south county.

    The areas around Balboa Park can be cool too - North/South Park, University Heights, Hillcrest, etc. Great beer bars too.

    I wouldn't live in Coastal SD south of La Jolla (except for maybe Point Loma.) I also wouldn't live anywhere else except coastal north county (La Jolla and north).


    Drawbacks of SD include:

    - Tourists
    - Strip Malls
    - Urban Sprawl
    - Young people in the military
    - Relatively expensive

    Population density is a lot less than the Bay Area, which is nice, but it makes tourism more noticeable. Urban sprawl and strip malls (think Westfields and shopping centers with Best Buy as a focal point) are everywhere. The young people in the military stationed in San Diego is a pretty big issue - lots of drinking, fighting, DUIs, and overall tool-baggery. It's less expensive than the Bay Area, but still expensive compared to other parts of the country.

    The area between La Jolla and Carlsbad doesn't suffer from these things as much.
    Oh yeah, North County is pretty sweet. Expensive but sweet. Solana Beach, Encinitas, Carlsbad, etc. We have friends in Cardiff. Those are all cool towns. I also really like North Park. We have friends there too. Great neighborhood. Stumbling distance to 30th.

    Overall, SD is like a better version of L.A. for me though. There are great pockets but the overall vibe isn't my thing. Lots of people love it though so hey. Yes, population density is less than the Bay but the geography up here breaks up the population so you have places where you can escape all the people pretty easily. East Bay Hills, Skyline Blvd., San Mateo Coast, West Marin, etc. SoCal doesn't really have that in my experience. You drive a half hour in any direction and it's just more of the same. Too dry for me too. I gotta have trees and greenery.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Exactly, There is no true break between San Diego City Limits and my House in Oceanside, however the City of Carlsbad and Encinitas are both incorporated and they are in-between...Still, 6 of the seven Breweries I visited are within San Diego City Limits.
    Encinitas is a super rad little beach town. Loved that area. We had relatives in Carlsbad for a little while, that area was cool as well. But you gotta pay to play in Southern California.

    Curious, I trulia'd the areas mentioned here.

    San Diego average and median listing prices - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $352,183

    Encinitas, CA real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Price $658,000

    Denver, CO real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $235,000

    Boulder, CO real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $414,500

    Fort Collins, CO real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $229,375 (where I live)

    Boston, MA real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $505,000

    Asheville, NC real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $186,500

    Bend, OR real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $216,850

    Portland, OR real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $262,000
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    Encinitas is a super rad little beach town. Loved that area. We had relatives in Carlsbad for a little while, that area was cool as well. But you gotta pay to play in Southern California.

    Curious, I trulia'd the areas mentioned here...
    Why the disparity between Boulder and Ft. Collins? Are there that many more jobs in Boulder? I would think they would be closer based on proximity/both college towns, etc.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post

    Overall, SD is like a better version of L.A. for me though.


    I hate LA. With a passion. Could not live there, ever.

    I know what you mean though - the mountains up here allow for some solitude nearby. To get the same in SD, you'd have to head east. And even then, it's desert until you get up into the higher elevations (like out near Alpine brewing.)

    To me it's more than geography - people in SD tend to be friendlier, more laid-back, less cliquey, and they are much better (faster?) drivers than their Bay Area counterparts. Driving around here is stressful - I've never felt such road rage as I do when I drive on the 101 .

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    Encinitas is a super rad little beach town. Loved that area. We had relatives in Carlsbad for a little while, that area was cool as well. But you gotta pay to play in Southern California.

    Curious, I trulia'd the areas mentioned here.

    San Diego average and median listing prices - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $352,183

    Encinitas, CA real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Price $658,000

    Denver, CO real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $235,000

    Boulder, CO real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $414,500

    Fort Collins, CO real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $229,375 (where I live)

    Boston, MA real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $505,000

    Asheville, NC real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $186,500

    Bend, OR real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $216,850

    Portland, OR real estate overview - Trulia.com Median Sales Price
    $262,000
    I live in Oceanside, 2 blocks from the Carlsbad City limits and paid $246k for my 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage home with a pool back in 2008.

    The reason the Median house prices are so high is because there are so many big houses in gated communities. There is affordable housing if you look for it as well.


    I will say this in agreement with things I do not like about my area, The young military types and the tourist. Other than that it truly is America's Finest City. More people come to San Diego on Vacation and end up moving here than any other city in the US, there must be a reason they want to stay.
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post


    I hate LA. With a passion. Could not live there, ever.

    I know what you mean though - the mountains up here allow for some solitude nearby. To get the same in SD, you'd have to head east. And even then, it's desert until you get up into the higher elevations (like out near Alpine brewing.)

    To me it's more than geography - people in SD tend to be friendlier, more laid-back, less cliquey, and they are much better (faster?) drivers than their Bay Area counterparts. Driving around here is stressful - I've never felt such road rage as I do when I drive on the 101 .
    101 is brutal. I avoid it all costs. 880 is a race track though but that's the other side of the bay. Interesting about the friendlier and more laid back comment. I remember the first week or so after I had left the Bay to go to school up at Humboldt State. Some random person said hello to me and I thought there was something wrong with them.

    I still love the bay area although there's a reason I live over the hill here in Santa Cruz County. I can access all the best parts of it whenever I want but I don't have to live in it.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    But you gotta pay to play in Southern California.
    Coincidentally, the real estate prices are usually a reflection of the job market. SD has a lot more high-paying jobs than Fort Collins.

    North county coastal is usually damn expensive because it's awesome. People will pay for the weather and the beaches.

    Surprising that Asheville is cheaper than Bend, although not by much. Portland seems to be a good deal at that price.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post

    I still love the bay area although there's a reason I live over the hill here in Santa Cruz County. I can access all the best parts of it whenever I want but I don't have to live in it.
    I'd be your neighbor if I could work closer. There's no way I'm commuting over the 17 just to come all the way up the peninsula for work (I hate commuting.)

    Plus, apparently you now have the hot new little brewery in the area. Would be nice to live near the beach again and have some great beer down the street - I used to ride my bike to Pizza Port for lunch.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    I'd be your neighbor if I could work closer. There's no way I'm commuting over the 17 just to come all the way up the peninsula for work (I hate commuting.)

    Plus, apparently you now have the hot new little brewery in the area. Would be nice to live near the beach again and have some great beer down the street - I used to ride my bike to Pizza Port for lunch.
    I commuted to SF from Santa Cruz for a year and a half. It was the worst. That was before I was married and had a kid. There's no way I could do it now. The job market is pretty bad here. Most non students either commute over the hill to SJ, scratch out some kind of living here in town, or have family money or roots here. Other than that there aren't a whole lot of options. I live here for the weather, the outdoor recreation and the crazy people. And yes, we finally have a decent (quite awesome) brewery. I wish we could get a Pizza Port North up here though. I think it would do well.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post


    I hate LA. With a passion. Could not live there, ever.
    I needed an excuse to post this...
    <iframe width="512" height="288" src="http://www.hulu.com/embed.html?eid=954zvvpi_5cjoqayqgaoow" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Why the disparity between Boulder and Ft. Collins? Are there that many more jobs in Boulder? I would think they would be closer based on proximity/both college towns, etc.
    Boulder/Broomfield/Denver area has more job opportunity for sure...especially in high tech/startups. I read at one point there was more venture capital money going into Boulder county than the bay area. Boulder is a bit more upscale, kind of like a mini Santa Monica or La Jolla I guess you could say. It's got the biggest college in the state as well. I've seen more big Audi's in Boulder in one afternoon than many cities in Germany. It's borderline ridiculous.

    Fort Collins is more normal middle class america I guess you can say. More flannel, more dinged and dented vehicles, more working class. We're 70 miles north of Denver, so out of the "big city" feeling, though the area is sprawling. Just about everything is less than 5 miles, and there are many bike paths. For instance, I can ride 5.8 miles on a bike paths to work without crossing a intersection (or road for that matter with exception of my street I ride to get to the path) - it is very easy to ride here.

    In terms of bike riding, I can't remember the last time I had a rack on my car. We all ride due west of the downtown to bike trails. And for drinking beer, you can hit no fewer than 10 breweries and world class beer bars within 1 mile of downtown Fort Collins. Ride your bike everywhere. Continues to be "best place to live" for a reason. https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp...w=1920&bih=979
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    When i lived down in mission valley and worked in carlsbad. I would almost have to stop on my way home , because i left at a horrible time to be on the highways or a charger game. I would stop at Iron Fist, Mother Earth, Hess or Ballast Point to kill a couple hours, shooting the **** with them. When my wife and i moved to california from ohio, her rate of pay almost double from what she was getting in ohio.

    O man do i miss Pizza Port, I guess I could go to San Clemente for a fix.
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    never tried anything new..... Albert Einstein

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    < - Planning to visit Rough Draft on my way home today to pickup a special Brewery release bottle.... I love having about 15 breweries between my work and home...... :-)
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    Make sure you try some Kern River Citra next week. From their FB page:

    If you can’t join us up here in the mountains, next week we’ll be taking some down to San Diego Beer Week (we’ll be at Toronado on Tuesday, O’Brien’s on Wednesday and Encinitas Ale House on Thursday).

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    ooops.. misread the title..

    i was about to sign the why asheville is a better riding city than san diego thread.

    beer forum. that explains it.

    go ride.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    We kind of like being under the radar up here after almost two decades of a grunge/hipster chic rep (see Hype for more info...).

    You could probably call Black Raven part of the third-wave movement here over the last couple of years -- an explosion of new breweries and, recently, distilleries. And one reason why you might not see distro outside of WA is that we drink most of it here!
    This is an interesting article addressing Washington breweries and the fact that they're still a little "behind the times."

    The Pour Fool: What to Drink from the World and the Northwest | You'll usually taste as many as fourteen different bottles to find one that fits your tastes and budget. The Pour Fool can help you beat those odds – with beverages of character, q

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    Great little column there. He hits it right on the nose. It's not that there isn't quality beer in WA. It's just that the innovation or "passion" is lacking.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Great little column there. He hits it right on the nose. It's not that there isn't quality beer in WA. It's just that the innovation or "passion" is lacking.
    Meh. The piece is interesting, but kind of ironic since guys like Adam at Reuben's (who's down the street from my place) and Matt and Heidi at Schooner Exact (Matt's a former semi-pro XC/DH racer and a total shredder) really represent the mainline direction of the brewing scene, rather than some marginalized "rebels".

    If anything, I think the scene is in a new creative cycle, sort of similar to "Third-Wave" coffee. Place like Pike, Pyramid, Red Hook and (earlier) Bert Grant's helped to pioneer a craft brewing trend in Washington back in the decade from the mid-80s to the mid-90s. The brewers that came out of that generation -- Dick Cantwell at Elysian for example, went on to start their own breweries and, for the most part, prospered. Witness the fact that it's very difficult to find a place in the state, whether blue-collar dive or college sports bar, that doesn't have at least one locally produced handle. Sure, we've got our share of beer snobs (uhhh...like me, probably); but local craft beer is not considered elitist or upscale.

    With that cultural success has come a certain level of comfort. However, over the last few years a whole new group of brewers is beginning to take the reins. Some of this cohort have been assistants in the larger, established houses; some are from the huge ranks of home brewers. Adam from Reuben's is an interesting example -- he is an engineer who started brewing less than 10 years ago as a hobby, began to win homebrew competitions, did the Siebel program and finally decided to go pro (though he's still trying to quit his day job) this year. There has been an explosion of new openings, and there are now somewhere around 170 breweries in the state. Wait a little longer -- when these guys have production to the point where they want to distribute outside of the state, you'll have the chance to see some of the innovation and passion that is supposedly lacking.

    And FWIW, those of us in the local scene know Steve Body's opinion quite well and while he's got his column in the online Seattle P-I, he is a wine guy. Definitely not very hooked into what's going on despite his protestations to the contrary. Let's just say, I attend a lot of beer events and he is never around....

    Better to read Kendall Jones's Washington Beer Blog, Geoff Kaiser's Seattle Beer News or Don Scheit's columns in the Celebrator. Steve's kind of old. And I say that as an old guy...

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    If you have to go around professing that your city is a better beer beer city than ours by creating new threads then obviously you are not and your insecurities proves it.

    Besides, we are just too busy riding some of the best trails in the world here in Western NC to deal with your nonsense

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Meh. The piece is interesting, but kind of ironic since guys like Adam at Reuben's (who's down the street from my place) and Matt and Heidi at Schooner Exact (Matt's a former semi-pro XC/DH racer and a total shredder) really represent the mainline direction of the brewing scene, rather than some marginalized "rebels".

    If anything, I think the scene is in a new creative cycle, sort of similar to "Third-Wave" coffee. Place like Pike, Pyramid, Red Hook and (earlier) Bert Grant's helped to pioneer a craft brewing trend in Washington back in the decade from the mid-80s to the mid-90s. The brewers that came out of that generation -- Dick Cantwell at Elysian for example, went on to start their own breweries and, for the most part, prospered. Witness the fact that it's very difficult to find a place in the state, whether blue-collar dive or college sports bar, that doesn't have at least one locally produced handle. Sure, we've got our share of beer snobs (uhhh...like me, probably); but local craft beer is not considered elitist or upscale.

    With that cultural success has come a certain level of comfort. However, over the last few years a whole new group of brewers is beginning to take the reins. Some of this cohort have been assistants in the larger, established houses; some are from the huge ranks of home brewers. Adam from Reuben's is an interesting example -- he is an engineer who started brewing less than 10 years ago as a hobby, began to win homebrew competitions, did the Siebel program and finally decided to go pro (though he's still trying to quit his day job) this year. There has been an explosion of new openings, and there are now somewhere around 170 breweries in the state. Wait a little longer -- when these guys have production to the point where they want to distribute outside of the state, you'll have the chance to see some of the innovation and passion that is supposedly lacking.

    And FWIW, those of us in the local scene know Steve Body's opinion quite well and while he's got his column in the online Seattle P-I, he is a wine guy. Definitely not very hooked into what's going on despite his protestations to the contrary. Let's just say, I attend a lot of beer events and he is never around....

    Better to read Kendall Jones's Washington Beer Blog, Geoff Kaiser's Seattle Beer News or Don Scheit's columns in the Celebrator. Steve's kind of old. And I say that as an old guy...
    Well said and I appreciate your input as a WA local. Still, from my perspective as an outsider, I have to agree somewhat with ol' Steve's assertion. Where is the Upright, Crooked Stave or Lost Abbey of Seattle or WA? I remember a time, like you probably do, when Washington state and the PNW in general was the king of "micro" beer and San Diego wasn't even on the map. As an outsider it just feels like WA is stuck in the 90's a bit. That's not to say that if you're not doing sour/fruit/barrel aged blah blah blah you are irrelevant but tastes and palates have evolved from 20 years ago.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    If you have to go around professing that your city is a better beer beer city than ours by creating new threads then obviously you are not and your insecurities proves it.

    Besides, we are just too busy riding some of the best trails in the world here in Western NC to deal with your nonsense
    Did you even check out my original post, it was more about my afternoon of tasting than anything else.
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    Please god will some city re-take the curse of the beer city title. Too many morans cluttering up my bars and trails. That and I don't think there is a enough time in the week to ride off the beer gut I'm sporting these days.

  71. #71
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    Trip update. My son's girlfriend comped me for the beer tasting at Broadway Pier. Score!!!
    Even got the food pairings upstairs. Had a great time and some great San Diego beers. Then stayed at her parents house in Encinitas and celebrated my son's 32 birthday in the lap of luxury.

    Coming from Sonoma County, San Diego is giving us a run for the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by norton55 View Post
    Trip update. My son's girlfriend comped me for the beer tasting at Broadway Pier. Score!!!
    Even got the food pairings upstairs. Had a great time and some great San Diego beers. Then stayed at her parents house in Encinitas and celebrated my son's 32 birthday in the lap of luxury.

    Coming from Sonoma County, San Diego is giving us a run for the money.
    Maybe it was the much better weather ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattnmtns View Post
    Please god will some city re-take the curse of the beer city title. Too many morans cluttering up my bars and trails. That and I don't think there is a enough time in the week to ride off the beer gut I'm sporting these days.


    Sorry, I just had to do it!

    The word is "moron". Think of "Mormon" without the second "m".

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post


    Sorry, I just had to do it!

    The word is "moron". Think of "Mormon" without the second "m".
    Nice. I think he was talking to the Australian "Moran" crime family though and urging us here in the USA to "go". Today I'm thinking about the word "Mormon" without the word "Mitt". I'm so glad we have a president that drinks the occasional beer and even has his chef brewing beer over a guy that's forbidden to drink beer ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Nice. I think he was talking to the Australian "Moran" crime family though and urging us here in the USA to "go". Today I'm thinking about the word "Mormon" without the word "Mitt". I'm so glad we have a president that drinks the occasional beer and even has his chef brewing beer over a guy that's forbidden to drink beer ever.
    Mormon's drink like fish, but stop after they get re-converted on their "missions".

  76. #76
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    All wrong!

    Best city is Brussels. I think it is somewhere outside Bakersfield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattnmtns View Post
    Please god will some city re-take the curse of the beer city title. Too many morans cluttering up my bars and trails. That and I don't think there is a enough time in the week to ride off the beer gut I'm sporting these days.
    Good point Matt.

    You are right, Asheville sucks for beer and out trails are horrible.

    Everyone go to San Diego, they are the best.

    Besides, we have way too many bees here.

  78. #78
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    Not that I want you all coming here but Grand Rapids, MI did just win Beer City this year:

    Breweries:
    Founders(enough said)
    Brewery Vivant
    Harmony
    Grand Rapids Brewing Co.
    Schmohz
    Hideout
    The Mitten
    Hopcat
    The B.O.B.
    Perrin


    that's just in Grand Rapids, take in the rest of these all within a short drive and were awesome!
    Bells
    Arcadia
    Dark horse
    Shorts
    Jolly Pumpkin
    North Peak
    New Holland

    We don't have the mountains of CO, but we've probably got 150 miles of legal trails within an hour drive of downtown

    And don't forget Lake Michigan, endless miles of some of the most beautiful beach anywhere.

    Yeah, I'm a little biased.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhugo71 View Post
    Not that I want you all coming here but Grand Rapids, MI did just win Beer City this year:

    Breweries:
    Founders(enough said)
    Brewery Vivant
    Harmony
    Grand Rapids Brewing Co.
    Schmohz
    Hideout
    The Mitten
    Hopcat
    The B.O.B.
    Perrin


    that's just in Grand Rapids, take in the rest of these all within a short drive and were awesome!
    Bells
    Arcadia
    Dark horse
    Shorts
    Jolly Pumpkin
    North Peak
    New Holland

    We don't have the mountains of CO, but we've probably got 150 miles of legal trails within an hour drive of downtown

    And don't forget Lake Michigan, endless miles of some of the most beautiful beach anywhere.

    Yeah, I'm a little biased.
    as someone who has been to Grand Rapids, I say yes; yes you are a little biased

  80. #80
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    Come on, be nice to my slightly conservative city!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhugo71 View Post
    Come on, be nice to my slightly conservative city!
    I'm sure it's pretty nice; but you might want to check out the beaches in San Diego.

  82. #82
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    I've been to the beaches in San Diego, they are great, don't discount our beaches here if you haven't been.

  83. #83
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    Our scenery isnt too bad
    Name:  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1352917009.257633.jpg
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    Or our other "scenery"
    Why San Diego is a better Beer City than Ashville, NC-imageuploadedbytapatalk1352917043.572748.jpg


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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhugo71 View Post
    I've been to the beaches in San Diego, they are great, don't discount our beaches here if you haven't been.
    As a native Californian, how about I just discount your weather?

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    All right, ya got me there.

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    hahaha, no kidding, most of those beaches are covered in snow during the winter.

    I do like Founders and Jolly Pumpkin, both great breweries!
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I'm sure it's pretty nice; but you might want to check out the beaches in San Diego.
    I have. The water is thoroughly polluted with that salt stuff and it has sharks with big teeth too, yuck!

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    As a native Californian, how about I just discount your weather?
    That's a good one but you could have gone for our lack of mountains too. We don't have many earthquakes or a lack of good fresh water like Southern California does though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    That's a good one but you could have gone for our lack of mountains too. We don't have many earthquakes or a lack of good fresh water like Southern California does though.
    I live in northern California (SF Bay Area) and we have plenty of water, beaches, mountains and good weather; mountain biking was also invited here of course. Earthquakes don't happen that often compared to the disasters that hit other parts of the country like clockwork.

    In all fairness however, some places can flood or burn and the price of starter home would make your head explode!

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    Who is the "butterface" in that second photo? Is she supposed to be someone famous? Her "butterface" does not ring a bell (although it may have struck a bell a few times).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Whoa Whoa Whoa there fellas.

    Fort Collins > asheville/san diago/Bend etc...

    :
    Ft. Collins, home to the worst mega-craft brewery in the country. What else does FoCo have that doesn't suck? It's been a while since I've been their.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhugo71 View Post

    Or our other "scenery"
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	737475

    Don't get me wrong, yes, I would hit that.
    However, she isn't that frigging hot where I would be posting pics up to brag about for the state.

    I used to live in Cali and there are way hotter women there.
    Hell, there are way hotter women everywhere.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Ft. Collins, home to the worst mega-craft brewery in the country. What else does FoCo have that doesn't suck? It's been a while since I've been their.
    Ever had the Lips of Faith series? Super IPA is as good as anything made by Boneyard or Crux. New Belgium also makes awesome sours. La Folie, Le Terroir, Eric's, Love, etc.

    Fort Collins is also home to Funkwerks, Equinox, and Odell.

  94. #94
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    ^^^ Also Lark Burger.!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhugo71 View Post
    I've been to the beaches in San Diego, they are great, don't discount our beaches here if you haven't been.
    I would take Wrightsville, Hatteras, Myrtle or Carlina Beach over ANY California beach. Why? Because they are so much cleaner, the water is clear and free of kelp and seaweed and you won't get a staff infection from swimming in it. And the best thing about beaches in NC? the water temp is 75 degrees or more all summer. Yes you can swim and not freeze your ass off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    I would take Wrightsville, Hatteras, Myrtle or Carlina Beach over ANY California beach. Why? Because they are so much cleaner, the water is clear and free of kelp and seaweed and you won't get a staff infection from swimming in it. And the best thing about beaches in NC? the water temp is 75 degrees or more all summer. Yes you can swim and not freeze your ass off.
    Staff infection, really? Millions of people swim in the ocean without getting a staff infection.

    The beaches are pretty nice in NC, we went there as a kid. The warm water is pretty awesome too.

    Not sure why we are comparing beaches but if we need to go there, the overwhelming reason I would pick the west coast over the east coast for beaches is the total lack of hurricanes on the west coast. East coast beaches can be scary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    I would take Wrightsville, Hatteras, Myrtle or Carlina Beach over ANY California beach. Why? Because they are so much cleaner, the water is clear and free of kelp and seaweed and you won't get a staff infection from swimming in it. And the best thing about beaches in NC? the water temp is 75 degrees or more all summer. Yes you can swim and not freeze your ass off.
    Myrtle is in SC

    The water is warmer, but it's humid as hell there too. And there aren't as many breweries nearby.

    The guy you quoted, however, was comparing SD to Grand Rapids beaches. Two completely different animals. I did hear that they finally got some surf in the wake of Hurricane Sandy though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Ft. Collins, home to the worst mega-craft brewery in the country. What else does FoCo have that doesn't suck? It's been a while since I've been their.
    Clearly only have had Fat Tire, eh amigo?

    This is what doesn't suck. fort collins best place to live - Google Search
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I live in northern California (SF Bay Area) and we have plenty of water, beaches, mountains and good weather; mountain biking was also invited here of course. Earthquakes don't happen that often compared to the disasters that hit other parts of the country like clockwork.

    In all fairness however, some places can flood or burn and the price of starter home would make your head explode!
    Every place has its pluses and minuses, except maybe places like Iowa and Missouri. They're all minuses. Can't we all get along as Americans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Every place has its pluses and minuses, except maybe places like Iowa and Missouri. They're all minuses. Can't we all get along as Americans?
    Well...Missouri has Boulevard and Iowa has this place that a friend was telling me is amazing so they're not all bad.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Well...Missouri has Boulevard and Iowa has this place that a friend was telling me is amazing so they're not all bad.
    Boulevard's Nutsack Ale sounds interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kety_smith View Post
    San Diego i a realy good beer, i like it
    You don't say.

  103. #103
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    This has been blowing up on the SD Beer scene Social Media pages:

    America’s Ten Best Beer Towns: The Non-Fiction List | The Pour Fool: What to Drink from the World and the Northwest - seattlepi.com

    I thought it applied to this thread. I am not sure I would rank Seattle so high, nor do I think they should of separated the Colorado Cities. I would rank Colorado Second and not have them listed as two separate area's since he puts all of San Diego county as one area.
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    I agree that Seattle is too high.

    And I think Bend should be 5th (above Grand Rapids, San Fran, and "the other Colorado" areas); which, considering Bend is 80,000 people in the middle of nowhere, is not too shabby.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    This has been blowing up on the SD Beer scene Social Media pages:

    America’s Ten Best Beer Towns: The Non-Fiction List | The Pour Fool: What to Drink from the World and the Northwest - seattlepi.com

    I thought it applied to this thread. I am not sure I would rank Seattle so high, nor do I think they should of separated the Colorado Cities. I would rank Colorado Second and not have them listed as two separate area's since he puts all of San Diego county as one area.

    Yeah isolating things to cities is tough. San Francisco actually isn't that great of a beer city in terms of production breweries - most of the good beer is made in the surrounding area. Replace Seattle with Philly and you have yourself a good list.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Replace Seattle with Philly and you have yourself a good list.
    While, I'll never turn down a chance to tout Philly's wonderful beer scene...My next comments are unbiased

    The list is flawed on many levels.
    He fails to keep to city limits on many accounts, and recognizing Vermont as a "brewing city"? Even with his total lack of geographical knowledge, he could have at least just said Waterbury instead of the whole state

    It's a list...of many of these types of lists.
    No creditability should be given.

    While I agree that city based isolation is indeed tough, allocating a states region brewing prowess into the nearest major city lines and calling it good is poor journalism in this context.
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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Yeah isolating things to cities is tough. San Francisco actually isn't that great of a beer city in terms of production breweries - most of the good beer is made in the surrounding area. Replace Seattle with Philly and you have yourself a good list.
    Besides 21st Amendment and Anchor, what other breweries are actually in the city limits of San Fran? I think the bay area has some great breweries, Drakes, Moylans, Marin, RR, Lagunitas, Heck I would even consider Bear Republic to be "Bay Area"

    Quote Originally Posted by JFryauff View Post
    While, I'll never turn down a chance to tout Philly's wonderful beer scene...My next comments are unbiased

    The list is flawed on many levels.
    He fails to keep to city limits on many accounts, and recognizing Vermont as a "brewing city"? Even with his total lack of geographical knowledge, he could have at least just said Waterbury instead of the whole state

    It's a list...of many of these types of lists.
    No creditability should be given.

    While I agree that city based isolation is indeed tough, allocating a states region brewing prowess into the nearest major city lines and calling it good is poor journalism in this context.
    What I liked about his list is he seemed to at least have some knowledge of the breweries, and I like how he called out that lame online poll that puts Ashville at the top of some lists, when it obviously does not belong up there.



    The best of anything is still a subjective list no matter what you talk about, and when it comes to food or drink even more so since individual palates can vary to such a wide degree. A person who really enjoys an IPA but cannot stand a Gueuze, or the person that feels the exact opposite are both right in the sense that they know what feels right according to their own taste buds.

    I don't think I could personally write up a list of what the best breweries are in the US simply because I do not have the time to taste every single offering from every single brewery in this country. There was what, over 1400 submissions at GAMF this year? it would take one person weeks to taste each of those beers, and they would have to take comprehensive notes on each one and still they would have a hard time ranking them all from best to worst.

    Do I think SD is the best beer city? Yes, am I biased because I live here, yes. Have I even been to all the other cities on this list, no. I have been to San Fran, I have been to Portland and Seattle, but the rest are just my speculation and my ability to try brews from those areas when they are sold near me.
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    The argument I've made before is that if we are truly talking about "Beer Cities" and not "Beer Metro Areas" it's Portland, OR and everybody else. It's the only city (in the U.S.) I can think of where you can hit 5-10 top flight breweries on foot in a day then do it all over again the following day.

    Saying that, I think expanding to "Beer Metro Areas" makes any list a lot more interesting and fun but also tricky since deciding where those metro areas begin and end can be tough. I actually thought this list was pretty well thought out. I do think Seattle is too high and I thought "Vermont" maybe deserved it's own category. Personally, I would also like to see bars and pubs factored in as this list only looks at breweries which seems a little limiting. Overall, it's a better list than most in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Besides 21st Amendment and Anchor, what other breweries are actually in the city limits of San Fran?
    Speakeasy, Magnolia (which he didn't mention), Social Kitchen, Thirsty Bear, Almanac (I believe they contract), Pacific Brewing Lab (contract?), Triple Voodoo (yet another contract?). Honestly, if the list is strictly brewery based and strictly city limits, SF probably isn't even top 10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JFryauff View Post
    While, I'll never turn down a chance to tout Philly's wonderful beer scene...My next comments are unbiased

    The list is flawed on many levels.
    The author is notorious for making contentious and silly comments in his blog. I agree that his list is flawed (and so is his methodology), but even so it's one of the best I've seen officially published. He should've done "regions" or metro areas or "within 25 miles of a city." Something to that effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Besides 21st Amendment and Anchor, what other breweries are actually in the city limits of San Fran? I think the bay area has some great breweries, Drakes, Moylans, Marin, RR, Lagunitas, Heck I would even consider Bear Republic to be "Bay Area"
    Haha, yeah all the ones you listed are not in SF. I agree they are excellent, but they are definitely in the surrounding area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Speakeasy, Magnolia (which he didn't mention), Social Kitchen, Thirsty Bear, Almanac (I believe they contract), Pacific Brewing Lab (contract?), Triple Voodoo (yet another contract?). Honestly, if the list is strictly brewery based and strictly city limits, SF probably isn't even top 10.
    Yeah those last three are contract brewed. Almanac is brewed by Hermitage in San Jose which is one of the worst breweries around, IMO. They previously were brewed by Drake's.

    Pac Brew Lab and Triple Voodoo are brewed by Devil's Canyon in Belmont.

    High Water brews at Drake's and Devil's Canyon. Schmaltz brews at Mendocino Brewing.

    Other breweries actually in SF include: 21st Amendment (not the production brewery), Beach Chalet, Pizza Orgasmica and Southpaw.

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    Shouldn't quality of beer count, beside geographical region? I mean, I had 21st Amendments IPA, and it was horrid! Tasted like a midwestern IPA, and a poor one at that.

    The name alone should not count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Shouldn't quality of beer count, beside geographical region? I mean, I had 21st Amendments IPA, and it was horrid! Tasted like a midwestern IPA, and a poor one at that.

    The name alone should not count.
    To answer your question, yes, quality should probably be the #1 factor. Secondly, that 21st Amendment you had (if it was in a can) wasn't actually brewed in SF. Thirdly, you are aware that there are amazing IPA's coming out of the Midwest right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    To answer your question, yes, quality should probably be the #1 factor. Secondly, that 21st Amendment you had (if it was in a can) wasn't actually brewed in SF. Thirdly, you are aware that there are amazing IPA's coming out of the Midwest right?
    I've had Three Floyd's; Lake Louie; Bells, and several others. They have all underwhelmed. I'm not saying there isn't a good IPA in the midwest, it's just that myself (originally from there), and my family (still in the midwest) have not found one yet that actually is on par with a NW IPA. But we keep searching!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I've had Three Floyd's; Lake Louie; Bells, and several others. They have all underwhelmed. I'm not saying there isn't a good IPA in the midwest, it's just that myself (originally from there), and my family (still in the midwest) have not found one yet that actually is on par with a NW IPA. But we keep searching!
    Different strokes for different folks I guess but it's kind of ironic because other than the wonderful IPA's that I hear are coming out of Bend (which I have yet to try), I can't think of any PNW IPA's that are really standouts. Fresh Blue Dot from Hair of the Dog perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Different strokes for different folks I guess but it's kind of ironic because other than the wonderful IPA's that I hear are coming out of Bend (which I have yet to try), I can't think of any PNW IPA's that are really standouts. Fresh Blue Dot from Hair of the Dog perhaps.
    Bend leads the PNW in IPA production. Deschutes makes some great seasonal ones like Hop Henge and a few that aren't bottled like Phil's Trail. Aside from Boneyard, Bend is also home to Crux and Silver Moon, both of which make great IPAs. Silver Moon can be found in bottles up there too - I'm a big fan of the Hoptagon.

    There are some other IPA producers in Oregon - Rogue, Ninkasi, Hopworks, Laurelwood, Hop Valley, HotD, Cascade, etc. But I'm partial to Boneyard. I was in Bend for IPA day last year and had samples from 11 different IPAs/DIPAs at Platypus Pub. Boneyard wasn't served and surprisingly I chose Cascade's IPA. I say surprising because they are really well known for their sours, and people don't talk about their other beers much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Bend leads the PNW in IPA production. Deschutes makes some great seasonal ones like Hop Henge and a few that aren't bottled like Phil's Trail. Aside from Boneyard, Bend is also home to Crux and Silver Moon, both of which make great IPAs. Silver Moon can be found in bottles up there too - I'm a big fan of the Hoptagon.

    There are some other IPA producers in Oregon - Rogue, Ninkasi, Hopworks, Laurelwood, Hop Valley, HotD, Cascade, etc. But I'm partial to Boneyard. I was in Bend for IPA day last year and had samples from 11 different IPAs/DIPAs at Platypus Pub. Boneyard wasn't served and surprisingly I chose Cascade's IPA. I say surprising because they are really well known for their sours, and people don't talk about their other beers much.
    I, too, am a huge fan of Boneyard RPM. And I, too am a fan of Deschutes short-run IPA's. Alpha, Fresh Squeezed, Phil's Trail, etc. are truly works of art. Much better than their year-round IPA, Inversion, IMO.

    And Crux Fermentation Projects Outcast IPA gets better with each batch. It rewards repeated tastings.

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    No doubt San Diego has great beer and beautiful weather.......Its a great place to live as long as you dont mind rolling blackouts, seaweed infested ice cold water at the beach ,an outrageously high cost of living ,illegal immigrants, fires, endless traffic and some of the worst air quality in the country. Give me Asheville any day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    No doubt San Diego has great beer and beautiful weather.......Its a great place to live as long as you dont mind rolling blackouts, seaweed infested ice cold water at the beach ,an outrageously high cost of living ,illegal immigrants, fires, endless traffic and some of the worst air quality in the country. Give me Asheville any day!
    I'm pretty sure the topic was why San Diego was "a better beer city" than Mayberry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    No doubt San Diego has great beer and beautiful weather.......Its a great place to live as long as you dont mind rolling blackouts, seaweed infested ice cold water at the beach ,an outrageously high cost of living ,illegal immigrants, fires, endless traffic and some of the worst air quality in the country. Give me Asheville any day!
    This makes me smile. SD definitely has its drawbacks, but there's a bunch of reasons people want to live there. Same for Asheville. FWIW I never experienced a rolling blackout in the 8 years I was there.

    As far as beer is concerned, SD has Asheville beat. For now

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    No doubt San Diego has great beer and beautiful weather.......Its a great place to live as long as you dont mind rolling blackouts, seaweed infested ice cold water at the beach ,an outrageously high cost of living ,illegal immigrants, fires, endless traffic and some of the worst air quality in the country. Give me Asheville any day!
    AIRNow - Homepage - Looks like Utah currently holds the title for worst air quality cities at the moment. Being close to the ocean our air is actually very clean, you want bad air quality travel north 80 miles to LA or Riverside.....
    I would rather have seaweed infested ice cold water than no ocean.... I don't recall Ashville having any ocean.....
    It costs more to live in the San Fransisco Bay area, or NYC than it does to live in San Diego. I happen to own a 3 bedroom 2 bath 2 car garage home with a pool, and I paid under $250.00 for it, and I am only 5 min from the ocean.
    Fires can happen anywhere.
    I am pretty sure there are illegal immigrants living in ashville as well.
    The traffic is pretty bad, but you know what, most of that traffic is from tourist's coming from ashville to see our amazing beer scene.....


    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I'm pretty sure the topic was why San Diego was "a better beer city" than Mayberry.
    Roger that.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    This makes me smile. SD definitely has its drawbacks, but there's a bunch of reasons people want to live there. Same for Asheville. FWIW I never experienced a rolling blackout in the 8 years I was there.

    As far as beer is concerned, SD has Asheville beat. For now
    I too have not experienced a rolling blackout in the 10 years living here.
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    ''our air is actually very clean''!?!?! Um, no. Air Quality In San Diego Among Worst In Nation | KPBS.org The air quality in San Diego is horrible. No Asheville does not have an ocean but it has some of the best rivers and streams in the country for white water!! Enjoy your kelp :-) I know how high the cost of living is in NY, thats why I dont live there anymore.... Having said that, San Diego has a much higher cost of living than most cities in the US including Asheville-which is quite affordable I might add. Yes fires can happen anywhere, but the ones that happen in densely populated areas in extremely dry climates with strong costal winds are the worst!! When was the last time you saw 1700 homes burn in Asheville? Last time i checked New Belgium, Oskar Blues and Sierra Nevada were heading to Asheville.....
    I would be remiss if I didnt mention the Mountain biking around Asheville-its AWESOME!!! Some say 'epic''! Mountain biking around San Diego.....not so much.

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    and....I just read an article that claims San Diego county has an estimated 198,000 illegal immigrants!!!! Thats more people than the entire population of Asheville.... wonderful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    and....I just read an article that claims San Diego county has an estimated 198,000 illegal immigrants!!!! Thats more people than the entire population of Asheville.... wonderful.
    Oh NOOOOOO!!!!!

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/768h3Tz4Qik?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Hey Carl here is a taste of the real world...... Maybe you can foot the bill?
    Victim: The Healthcare Industry
    By Carol Plato
    Victims of Illegal Immigration - The Social Contract Press

    ''Read Victim: The Healthcare Industry in PDF format
    I am Carol Plato. I am from Martin County (Florida), and I am Director of Corporate Business Services for Martin Memorial Medical Center. I have a couple brief stories to tell you about. In 2001 we had a Guatemalan, an illegal patient, in our hospital. He was there from 2001 until 2003. He had over $1.5 million in healthcare services. We forcibly returned him to his home country of Guatemala at our own cost of $30,000. You ask why am I telling you about a case that happened in 2003? Because today that case is not over; we have spent and are spending up to a quarter of a million dollars in legal fees, because his family here in the United States is suing us because they think it was inappropriate for us, to return this illegal patient to his home country.
    Currently, as of today, I have a patient from Mexico who has been in my hospital for 760 days. He has severe brain damage; he has no family, no friends. His charges, to date, for almost 2 years is $1.5 million, and we have contacted the Mexican Consulate four times; we have contacted Immigration, and nobody will help us return this patient to Mexico. We are even willing to spend our own $30,000 to return this patient. We can't get anyone to help us with that.
    In 2007 the Florida Hospital Association estimated that there was 100 million dollars in costs for illegal patient care. One of the major problems that healthcare institutions have today, that you need to be aware of, is ongoing care. If somebody comes into our emergency room, we don't turn them away. But if somebody comes into our emergency room and they have renal failure, and they require dialysis -- well, right now I have six patients (illegal, undocumented patients) that we are seeing every 3 days for renal dialysis. For all of this that I've talked to you about, we have received no reimbursement. This obviously affects all of us; our healthcare costs are severely affected by this.'' ........enjoy your cartoons :-)

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    ''our air is actually very clean''!?!?! Um, no. Air Quality In San Diego Among Worst In Nation | KPBS.org The air quality in San Diego is horrible. No Asheville does not have an ocean but it has some of the best rivers and streams in the country for white water!! Enjoy your kelp :-) I know how high the cost of living is in NY, thats why I dont live there anymore.... Having said that, San Diego has a much higher cost of living than most cities in the US including Asheville-which is quite affordable I might add. Yes fires can happen anywhere, but the ones that happen in densely populated areas in extremely dry climates with strong costal winds are the worst!! When was the last time you saw 1700 homes burn in Asheville? Last time i checked New Belgium, Oskar Blues and Sierra Nevada were heading to Asheville.....
    I would be remiss if I didnt mention the Mountain biking around Asheville-its AWESOME!!! Some say 'epic''! Mountain biking around San Diego.....not so much.
    First and foremost, have you even been to SD? I've been to Asheville.


    Asheville and SD are two very different places. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, and there are very clear explanations as to why. You can bag on SD for many reasons, but there are at least an equal number of reasons to bag on Asheville (as mentioned above.) I recently had some close friends move from SD to Asheville to be closer to family and they will say the same thing - they both have their pros and cons.


    Bottom line is this: the beer scene in San Diego absolutely crushes that in Asheville. Even with the help of Sierra, New Belgium and Oskar Blues installing their East Coast production sites, it's still not enough to beat SD unless the local Asheville breweries can do better.

    And as a side note, Bend, OR is a better small beer town than Asheville.

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    SD is an awesome place and has some great beers for sure.

    I think one poster said it best, breweries are one thing but you have to factor in the pubs and availability of good beers.

    Not to be a Oregon nuthugger - but the great thing I feel like PDX has to offer is the variety of beer available from all over the US/World along with locally produced stuff. I can get off the wall random stuff at a number of the pubs downtown that I can't find by the bottle in nice bottle shops. That is was really seals the deal for me.

    Not to count the fact the PDX is less than 3 hrs from Bend....that's gotta count for something, right?

    I will admit though, MTB riding SUCKS in PDX....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizRider View Post
    SD is an awesome place and has some great beers for sure.

    I think one poster said it best, breweries are one thing but you have to factor in the pubs and availability of good beers.

    Not to be a Oregon nuthugger - but the great thing I feel like PDX has to offer is the variety of beer available from all over the US/World along with locally produced stuff. I can get off the wall random stuff at a number of the pubs downtown that I can't find by the bottle in nice bottle shops. That is was really seals the deal for me.

    Not to count the fact the PDX is less than 3 hrs from Bend....that's gotta count for something, right?

    I will admit though, MTB riding SUCKS in PDX....
    But will our Hannity-loving, paranoid wingnut friend from Asheville be willing to travel to such a depraved, Socialist blue state as Oregon to taste said beers?

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    Just to clarify, because there seems to be some confusion and some really sore man boobies.... I have been to SD once. Weather was great, lots of good beer too- other than that it was a major let down. Would not go back. Just my opinion, you guys have yours.
    I live in PA not Asheville NC. I have been to Asheville many times and would love to move there but my job and family keep me in PA. The riding here in PA is awesome though, super techy stuff. I think Hannity and the rest of the Fox clowns are idiotic. I am not "paranoid', or a 'wing nut", just informed. If you put down the water bong dirt farmer you might be too. Bend is on my list of places to go. I hear the riding and beer are great!!! Any thoughts on Cog Wild tours?

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    RE: Cog Wild. Never ridden with them but hear good things.

    Classic stereotype of Oregon - dirt farms, not much of them here in Portland! We got hipsters though, which are dirtier. You need to catch up on your Portlandia

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    ''our air is actually very clean''!?!?! Um, no. Air Quality In San Diego Among Worst In Nation | KPBS.org The air quality in San Diego is horrible. No Asheville does not have an ocean but it has some of the best rivers and streams in the country for white water!! Enjoy your kelp :-) I know how high the cost of living is in NY, thats why I dont live there anymore.... Having said that, San Diego has a much higher cost of living than most cities in the US including Asheville-which is quite affordable I might add. Yes fires can happen anywhere, but the ones that happen in densely populated areas in extremely dry climates with strong costal winds are the worst!! When was the last time you saw 1700 homes burn in Asheville? Last time i checked New Belgium, Oskar Blues and Sierra Nevada were heading to Asheville.....
    I would be remiss if I didnt mention the Mountain biking around Asheville-its AWESOME!!! Some say 'epic''! Mountain biking around San Diego.....not so much.
    I think TL3 changed his screen name..... ;-)

    I live in San Diego, and That report is not very accurate, The air is constantly cleaner here than up in LA and Riverside, you can actually see the gross haze in the air up there. If you read that article it collected its data from 2007-2009 and was written in 2011, and it even stated that the air quality was already on a track of improvement..... If the air here really was horrible as you state I would imagine the cases of lung disease would be much higher than they are..... but they are not.

    There have been plenty of fires in other states, Colorado, Texas, etc that have wiped out large numbers of homes. I hope you realize the fires in San Diego were in the outlying area's of the county, not anywhere near the city.

    I am actually quite surprised to find so much hate for one of the biggest tourist destinations in the US.

    Also, Mountain Biking in San Diego is actually awesome, I recommend you check it out. MountainBikeBill's Mountain biking Trail Reviews, Videos and Pictures has some great write up and guides for some of the local trails.

    Personally I cannot comment on things like air quality or general quality of life in Ashville, because I have never been, but the one thing I can be sure of without visiting is that San Diego is still a far better destination for beer lovers, and that is what this thread is about.

    Lets try to stay on topic shall we?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizRider View Post
    SD is an awesome place and has some great beers for sure.

    I think one poster said it best, breweries are one thing but you have to factor in the pubs and availability of good beers.

    Not to be a Oregon nuthugger - but the great thing I feel like PDX has to offer is the variety of beer available from all over the US/World along with locally produced stuff. I can get off the wall random stuff at a number of the pubs downtown that I can't find by the bottle in nice bottle shops. That is was really seals the deal for me.
    There are actually a large number of great pubs and some brew pubs in San Diego, however due to the way the region is laid out it would be harder for one to do a big bicycle tour of all the pubs.

    According to this directory there are 30 brew pubs in the greater SD area:
    Directory – West Coaster - Serving the San Diego Craft Beer Community

    I do however love Portland. Lucky Lab felt very much like Pizza Port to me when I visited a few years ago. If I was forced to move out of SoCal for some reason I would want to land in Portland or Denver, though Denver would be harder for me since they do not allow pit bulls in the city.....
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    On topic it is!!! While your opinion may be that San Diego is ''a far better destination for beer" there are plenty of people that disagree- me being one of them. Grand Rapids & Asheville share BeerCity USA 2012 title - National beer | Examiner.com Asheville has won Beer City USA I believe 4 times now if Im not mistaken there are over 50,000 beer drinkers/industry types voting. Its no coincidence that Oskar Blues,New Belgium and Sierra Nevada are moving there!! Its already a great scene with potentail for lots of growth. My understanding is the water supply/quality is excellent. Wondering how you can make a informed decision about a place you have never been to?!?!? At any rate, cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    On topic it is!!! While your opinion may be that San Diego is ''a far better destination for beer" there are plenty of people that disagree- me being one of them. Grand Rapids & Asheville share BeerCity USA 2012 title - National beer | Examiner.com Asheville has won Beer City USA I believe 4 times now if Im not mistaken there are over 50,000 beer drinkers/industry types voting. Its no coincidence that Oskar Blues,New Belgium and Sierra Nevada are moving there!! Its already a great scene with potentail for lots of growth. My understanding is the water supply/quality is excellent. Wondering how you can make a informed decision about a place you have never been to?!?!? At any rate, cheers!

    You keep stating these brewing companies are "moving there". They are simply opening production facilities there; they will still - now and forever - be headquartered in Chico, Fort Collins, and Longmont.

    It's like Miller or Pabst in the city I grew up in: Milwaukee... they brewed all kinds of different beers there, most of which were not sold at all in the Wisconsin area.

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    Yes they will be new production facilities....thanks for the keen insight. According to press releases from Oskar Blues “The small town will also be home to a separate restaurant and live music venue as well.''This goes well beyond the scope of just a production facility! It will have a direct impact on tourism and the beer sence as a whole.

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    Yes they will be new production facilities....thanks for the keen insight. According to press releases from Oskar Blues “The small town will also be home to a separate restaurant and live music venue as well.''This goes well beyond the scope of just a production facility! It will have a direct impact on tourism and the beer sence as a whole.
    Yes it will. But to think that those breweries are going to take Asheville's city water and turn it into beer is plain ignorant. All breweries of that size treat their water to reach the right mineral content for their beer. Asheville will be no different.

    Sure, it's nice to think that Asheville is desirable to breweries because it is a beer destination itself. But the primary reason those breweries are moving to that area of the East Coast is tax breaks. New Belgium alone is getting $13 million in publicly funded financing. More info here:

    New Belgium CEO on North Carolina incentive packages | BeerPulse

    Your examiner.com article is biased because so many people from Asheville vote. I've read that the poll was started by an Asheville group. Take it for what it's worth. Personally, I like to go off award-winning beers produced in a city. And then there's no comparison.

    If you go onto any of the popular beer websites (BeerAdvocate or Ratebeer) this topic regularly comes up. And it always seems to be the consensus that San Diego rates in the top 3 (with beer quality being a heavy factor) and Asheville is lower in the list. There is no way to get around the fact that while Asheville is a great little city, the beer produced there just doesn't hold a candle to many other cities in the nation like SD, Portland, Bend, Grand Rapids, etc.

    So if you enjoy good weather, beaches, a solid job market and a big-city feel you'd choose SD. If you want a small recreational mountain town, you'd choose Bend. If you want the small mountain town but can't live in Bend or Fort Collins (or Denver or Boulder) then you choose Asheville.

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    And from Sierra Nevada...... CHICO, Calif. — Jan. 25, 2012 —Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. is pleased to announce that it has chosen a site in western North Carolina for the future home of an East Coast brewery. The site, approximately 90 acres in the Henderson County Town of Mills River— along the French Broad River, 12 miles south of Asheville — will be home to the new production facility, as well as a proposed restaurant and gift shop. “We are thrilled to have found an ideal location in western North Carolina for our second brewery,” says Ken Grossman, founder of Sierra Nevada. “The beer culture, water quality and quality of life are excellent. We feel lucky to be a part of this community.” They seem to think a quality water source is a good place so start ! But why would I listen to them when I have all these arm-chair experts who from what i gather have never even been to Asheville. I realize east coast production/distribution were the main reason for opening,but they have a real respect for the Asheville area! The restaurant will be serving their beer, again having a direct impact on the local beer scene and economy. Asheville keeps getting better by the day. You can keep your insane cost of living,endless traffic , fires and lame mt biking....

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    Not to sound like a beer snob/elitist (even though I am) I wouldn't consider that New Belgium or Sierra Nevada moving to a city means anything besides good business, tax breaks, cheaper land...aka lower overhead. Good business is not necessarily good beer.

    I think good beer scenes include a handful of large quality manufacturers, sure, but it is really driven by the QUALITY small micro/nano brewery. This, at least in my mind and some others, is the real determining factor.

    That article reference above holds no merit, look how far in front the top two are! Not to mention, as much as I LOVE Bend, the beer and the riding in no way does it have the beer scene Portland does.

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    Skewed much? From the article:

    "Votes were cast from 90 countries. It’s not surprising that the top two states from which votes were cast were Michigan with 10,560 and North Carolina with 8,164. New Jersey, Missouri, Oregon, California, South Carolina and Pennsylvania voters all cast more than 2,000 votes each."

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    c'mon, guys, stop feeding the troll. He called Colorado and California mountain biking "lame mt biking" (in his very last sentence). He obviously has never biked beyond the 100th meridian, and is simply a "homer" at best, or a troll at worst.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    And from Sierra Nevada...... CHICO, Calif. — Jan. 25, 2012 —Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. is pleased to announce that it has chosen a site in western North Carolina for the future home of an East Coast brewery. The site, approximately 90 acres in the Henderson County Town of Mills River— along the French Broad River, 12 miles south of Asheville — will be home to the new production facility, as well as a proposed restaurant and gift shop. “We are thrilled to have found an ideal location in western North Carolina for our second brewery,” says Ken Grossman, founder of Sierra Nevada. “The beer culture, water quality and quality of life are excellent. We feel lucky to be a part of this community.” They seem to think a quality water source is a good place so start ! But why would I listen to them when I have all these arm-chair experts who from what i gather have never even been to Asheville. I realize east coast production/distribution were the main reason for opening,but they have a real respect for the Asheville area! The restaurant will be serving their beer, again having a direct impact on the local beer scene and economy. Asheville keeps getting better by the day. You can keep your insane cost of living,endless traffic , fires and lame mt biking....
    For the record, Asheville seems like a great place. Lot of outdoor activities, etc. I would absolutely love to visit. My friends who moved to Nashville a few years ago, visited Asheville and were trying to convince us to move there. Personally, I would probably prefer it to San Diego, but as has been mentioned, different strokes for different folks.

    However, in strictly beer terms, which I think this thread is still about, when I hear that a few breweries from CA and CO moving to Asheville is the best thing about the Asheville beer scene, it speaks volumes. Not to say that SN and New Belgium and Oskar Blues moving there isn't a big deal because it is. It obviously speaks to the desirability of living and working there (I'm pretty sure other areas of the country were offering tax incentives) since they all chose Western North Carolina. Saying that, Asheville can't be considered a top 5 beer city until the breweries that actually started in Asheville start making world class beer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    On topic it is!!!
    Actually no, you have been going well off topic in many posts, especially the ones talking about air quality, cold oceans and fires.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    c'mon, guys, stop feeding the troll. He called Colorado and California mountain biking "lame mt biking" (in his very last sentence). He obviously has never biked beyond the 100th meridian, and is simply a "homer" at best, or a troll at worst.
    In this case I would say more homer than troll, though he is trying to push into troll territory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Saying that, Asheville can't be considered a top 5 beer city until the breweries that actually started in Asheville start making world class beer.
    Touche! Great point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    And from Sierra Nevada...... CHICO, Calif. — Jan. 25, 2012 —Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. is pleased to announce that it has chosen a site in western North Carolina for the future home of an East Coast brewery. The site, approximately 90 acres in the Henderson County Town of Mills River— along the French Broad River, 12 miles south of Asheville — will be home to the new production facility, as well as a proposed restaurant and gift shop. “We are thrilled to have found an ideal location in western North Carolina for our second brewery,” says Ken Grossman, founder of Sierra Nevada. “The beer culture, water quality and quality of life are excellent. We feel lucky to be a part of this community.” They seem to think a quality water source is a good place so start ! But why would I listen to them when I have all these arm-chair experts who from what i gather have never even been to Asheville. I realize east coast production/distribution were the main reason for opening,but they have a real respect for the Asheville area! The restaurant will be serving their beer, again having a direct impact on the local beer scene and economy. Asheville keeps getting better by the day. You can keep your insane cost of living,endless traffic , fires and lame mt biking....
    I've been to Asheville and went to 7 different breweries/beer bars and tried everything I could. The beer doesn't compare.

    I've been to the SN brewery (as well as many others) on a beer tour. They ALL modify the water to get the right mineral content. Obviously a high-quality base water supply is important, but they can get that in many different places. Tax breaks are more important than water quality.

    And the MTB scene in SD is solid - plenty of high elevation east county riding though the Lagunas and Noble Canyon to satisfy. Sure, it's not the same as Pisgah and the surrounding areas, but it's still pretty damn good.

    Asheville is definitely awesome, and keeps getting better every day. But it's not a top 3 beer city yet.

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    That is a bold statement. Between Stone and Duck Rabbit, I'd choose DR, and Stone is very good. DR Might not count as it's in Farmville.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Performula View Post
    That is a bold statement. Between Stone and Duck Rabbit, I'd choose DR, and Stone is very good. DR Might not count as it's in Farmville.
    Yeah, not even close...they are on opposite ends of the state.

    What do you think DR does better than Stone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Yeah, not even close...they are on opposite ends of the state.

    What do you think DR does better than Stone?
    The dark beers, that's DR's specialty, the RIS and Baltic are phenomenal. Stone's Smoked Porter is in it's own category (Smoke Jumper by Left Hand is GOAT for smoked porters) and Stone Ruination is candy in a bottle. It's all what we really prefer. Stone does more of the Pale/IPA/Strong Americans which seems to be their specialty. Both companies are very good.

    In the thread's defense, I do not like Highland, I think I've had one beer I liked from them. And ironically, Duck Rabbit's Wee Scottish was the worst micro beer I've ever had, might have been the style too.

    FYI, to everyone, I'm not being a beer snob like some can be. I've been drinking Mics since 2002. These are my opinions, not end all be all.
    Last edited by Performula; 03-19-2013 at 01:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark View Post
    That article is laughable. Yes, San Diego is suburbia hell. But any place in the country that desirable would face the same dilemmas. Kurt's comment:

    "While I understand “progress” is inevitable, there are still parts of the country where land is abundant and people understand that non-stop development is an unsustainable practice"

    is a joke. He's obviously never lived anywhere else that is hugely desirable and subject to a housing boom. Bend saw it in 2003-2007, and will see it again soon. Parts of Asheville are seeing it now and it's a huge issue in nearby RTP where local industry has caused an influx of people moving there for work, and subsequent housing construction. I see it here in the Bay Area - not necessarily near SF itself as there is limited land, but simply looking to the East Bay or South Bay will yield the same image of suburbia. Nowhere is immune to urban sprawl and development unless the city is constrained by natural features or is a master planned community. Kurt says "sure, the weather here is great, but for me, it’s not great enough to justify what’s happening to a place that used to be a complete paradise" which is ironic because 5 years ago, San Diego wasn't that much different. I know because I lived there at that time. He's claiming it used to be a paradise when in fact it's likely his personal views that have changed dramatically, not San Diego itself.

    Kurt's comments are about urban sprawl and development in general, and are not limited to San Diego. Ironically Kurt will never be able to escape those things unless he moves somewhere that isn't as desirable. This has nothing to do with San Diego itself, but America as a whole. There are a lot of people here, and that number is growing. I share his pain as I hate crackerbox developments myself - I saw my hometown of Bend get subjected to it back when there was money to be made on cheap developments. It sucks, and it destroys any images of quaint, pristine beauty you may have held of the area. His idealistic philosophy about development density is not realistic - both profits and lack of space drive the need to build homes close together, as much as we despise it.

    Good luck to Kurt in Reno, but there's a reason people aren't flocking there in droves.

    That said, San Diego is still the best beer city out there, IMO. Unbelievably good stuff coming from Alpine, Societe, Pizza Port, Port/Lost Abbey, Stone and all the others these days. No amount of suburbia hell is going to change that.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    That article is laughable. Yes, San Diego is suburbia hell. But any place in the country that desirable would face the same dilemmas. Kurt's comment:

    "While I understand “progress” is inevitable, there are still parts of the country where land is abundant and people understand that non-stop development is an unsustainable practice"

    is a joke. He's obviously never lived anywhere else that is hugely desirable and subject to a housing boom. Bend saw it in 2003-2007, and will see it again soon. Parts of Asheville are seeing it now and it's a huge issue in nearby RTP where local industry has caused an influx of people moving there for work, and subsequent housing construction. I see it here in the Bay Area - not necessarily near SF itself as there is limited land, but simply looking to the East Bay or South Bay will yield the same image of suburbia. Nowhere is immune to urban sprawl and development unless the city is constrained by natural features or is a master planned community. Kurt says "sure, the weather here is great, but for me, it’s not great enough to justify what’s happening to a place that used to be a complete paradise" which is ironic because 5 years ago, San Diego wasn't that much different. I know because I lived there at that time. He's claiming it used to be a paradise when in fact it's likely his personal views that have changed dramatically, not San Diego itself.

    Kurt's comments are about urban sprawl and development in general, and are not limited to San Diego. Ironically Kurt will never be able to escape those things unless he moves somewhere that isn't as desirable. This has nothing to do with San Diego itself, but America as a whole. There are a lot of people here, and that number is growing. I share his pain as I hate crackerbox developments myself - I saw my hometown of Bend get subjected to it back when there was money to be made on cheap developments. It sucks, and it destroys any images of quaint, pristine beauty you may have held of the area. His idealistic philosophy about development density is not realistic - both profits and lack of space drive the need to build homes close together, as much as we despise it.

    Good luck to Kurt in Reno, but there's a reason people aren't flocking there in droves.

    That said, San Diego is still the best beer city out there, IMO. Unbelievably good stuff coming from Alpine, Societe, Pizza Port, Port/Lost Abbey, Stone and all the others these days. No amount of suburbia hell is going to change that.
    Totally agree with everything said here. I read Kurt's article yesterday and it felt like sour grapes mixed with a total lack of perspective. Painting San Diego as some pristine natural wonderland just now getting eaten up by developers...that would have been a valid point of view...in the late 1930's. And he's leaving SD to move to RENO?!? Yeah, no McMansion sprawl there or anything. Comedy.

    Face it, if you don't like sprawl/traffic/people there are places you can move but you better either have a job that allows you to work from home or family money.

  150. #150
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    Back on topic, San Diego now has over 70 Breweries.... How many does Ashville have?

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  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Back on topic, San Diego now has over 70 Breweries.... How many does Ashville have?

    ...........................................
    Bend still wins the per-capita contest, and Portland wins the breweries-easily-accessible-by-public-transportation contest.

  152. #152
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    Never been to Asheville but I gotta say that SD is the best beer city in my book, both in quality and quantity of breweries. There's definitely still affordable housing within the county, the people are a little bit more laid back, the weather is perfect 300+days/year and they do have the best fish tacos in the world. Just got back from Raleigh/Durham and it was awesome to say the least. NC has some super nice people and the beer scene is pretty good, not to mention the astronomical NC BBQ. That being said, I, now, hate where I live.........Los Angeles

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Bend still wins the per-capita contest, and Portland wins the breweries-easily-accessible-by-public-transportation contest.
    Speaking of Bend, I see we now have yet another one, Rat Hole Brewing. No website yet, just a rudimentary FacePalm, err... I mean Facebook page.

    I saw their beer in Newport Market this week.

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    I think that GuitarMark gave up way too early on his point about San Diego seaweed . . . .

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Bend still wins the per-capita contest, and Portland wins the breweries-easily-accessible-by-public-transportation contest.
    Who needs public transportation in Ballard?

    Why San Diego is a better Beer City than Ashville, NC-reubens.jpg

    (FWIW, there are five -- and two new ones coming on line this summer -- within my neighborhood in Seattle. But I'm not jumping into the "who's-beer-city-is-best" fight.... )
    Last edited by GeePhroh; 06-07-2013 at 10:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Who needs public transportation in Ballard?

    (FWIW, there are five -- and two new ones coming on line this summer -- within my neighborhood in Seattle. But I'm not jumping into the "who's-beer-city-is-best" fight.... )
    Awesome

    Stay out of the fight - Seattle is one of craft beer's best kept "secrets." But on the topic of Portland, this would be hard to do anywhere else:

    Summer Guide 2012: John Lovegrove hits 50 Oregon breweries in a single day

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    Subscribed for retarded internet argument.

    Denver!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Subscribed for retarded internet argument.

    Denver!!!

    FYI, you can subscribe without making derisive comments. The subscribe option is in the "Thread Tools" dropdown at the top of the page.

    Welcome to the Beer forum, feel free to contribute something other than criticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    FYI, you can subscribe without making derisive comments. The subscribe option is in the "Thread Tools" dropdown at the top of the page.

    Welcome to the Beer forum, feel free to contribute something other than criticism.
    I'm already getting my money's worth! Great advice thanks!

  160. #160
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    Thanks to Carl Hungus for providing this awesome map - highly recommended everyone reading this thread take a look!

    A New Yorker Interactive

  161. #161
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    I went to Coronado's tasting and Iron Fist's last week. Not bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Thanks to Carl Hungus for providing this awesome map - highly recommended everyone reading this thread take a look!

    A New Yorker Interactive
    That map tool is killer. I hope they keep it up to date.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Thanks to Carl Hungus for providing this awesome map - highly recommended everyone reading this thread take a look!

    A New Yorker Interactive
    Great map JT. The areas with great beer seem to be places I'd consider living. Interesting how the works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Bend still wins the per-capita contest, and Portland wins the breweries-easily-accessible-by-public-transportation contest.
    Agreed. I am originally from Portland and have visited back home regularly and Portland is the leader in breweries by far in the US. I currently live in San Diego which is a pretty strong second with great places like Stone (Point Loma), Ballast Point and Mission Bay but it just doesn't have anything on the huge variety of beer per capita that Portland does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    Agreed. I am originally from Portland and have visited back home regularly and Portland is the leader in breweries by far in the US. I currently live in San Diego which is a pretty strong second with great places like Stone (Point Loma), Ballast Point and Mission Bay but it just doesn't have anything on the huge variety of beer per capita that Portland does.
    Plus, the whole beer culture is much better up there. Breweries are far more experimental, growler laws are easier, draft beer is cheaper and they can have awesome things like the Cycle Pub in Bend. Oregon definitely has it down.

    At least San Diego is making ridiculously good beer. I recommend Alpine and Societe if you haven't already checked them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    Agreed. I am originally from Portland and have visited back home regularly and Portland is the leader in breweries by far in the US. I currently live in San Diego which is a pretty strong second with great places like Stone (Point Loma), Ballast Point and Mission Bay but it just doesn't have anything on the huge variety of beer per capita that Portland does.
    Have you had a chance to visit all 70+ Breweries in the county?

    I know I have not, and I have lived here for over 10 years now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    Agreed. I am originally from Portland and have visited back home regularly and Portland is the leader in breweries by far in the US. I currently live in San Diego which is a pretty strong second with great places like Stone (Point Loma), Ballast Point and Mission Bay but it just doesn't have anything on the huge variety of beer per capita that Portland does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Have you had a chance to visit all 70+ Breweries in the county?

    I know I have not, and I have lived here for over 10 years now.
    Does he need to have visited all 70+ breweries??

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Does he need to have visited all 70+ breweries??
    Considering he only mentions two breweries I just wonder how much of the San Diego brew scene he has truly experienced to make a comment that Portland is still better.

    Nothing in Portland compares to Alpine or Societe. Societe is going to become the next Russian River IMO.
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Considering he only mentions two breweries I just wonder how much of the San Diego brew scene he has truly experienced to make a comment that Portland is still better.

    Nothing in Portland compares to Alpine or Societe. Societe is going to become the next Russian River IMO.
    Hoppy beer is definitely better in SD, but the wild ale scene is seriously lacking. Lost Abbey cranks them out, but they're expensive and not as popular in SD as a whole. Portland and Hood River are just booming with farmhouse and sour styles.

    The huge plus to the Portland beer scene is that many beer destinations are in or near downtown and a lot of it is walkable or within striking distance from public transportation. You need a car to check out the scene in SD. Also, Oregon's beer laws are far superior to those in California, particularly surrounding growler fills. Bottle shops and taprooms are also better in Portland overall, with bigger, more diverse selections and cheaper beer prices.

    But I agree with you - SD has more "world class" breweries and the beer is overall better in SD. On the plus side, in 5 years things may be totally different and another city may become mecca for craft lovers. It's never a bad thing to be surrounded by amazing beer wherever you go!

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    What "hoppy beer" can I get in San Diego that would be a worthy upgrade to a Bend or Portland brewed IPA?.

    Not equal, but "better"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    What "hoppy beer" can I get in San Diego that would be a worthy upgrade to a Bend or Portland brewed IPA?.

    Not equal, but "better"?
    Alpine Nelson, Duet, Pure Hop, Bad Boy, Expo
    Societe Apprentice, Pupil
    Anything from Pizza Port


    Boneyard is up there with them. I have yet to be wowed by a Portland IPA to the same level, but that means I need to try more

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Alpine Nelson, Duet, Pure Hop, Bad Boy, Expo
    Societe Apprentice, Pupil
    Anything from Pizza Port


    Boneyard is up there with them. I have yet to be wowed by a Portland IPA to the same level, but that means I need to try more
    Tried Breakside? Fanno Creek? Captured By Porches?

    Also, how do Deschutes short run IPA's contend? I'd make a hefty wager on many of their short run IPA's (not including Fresh Squeezed IPA, which is strictly Citra and Mosaic hops)

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Hoppy beer is definitely better in SD, but the wild ale scene is seriously lacking. Lost Abbey cranks them out, but they're expensive and not as popular in SD as a whole. Portland and Hood River are just booming with farmhouse and sour styles.

    The huge plus to the Portland beer scene is that many beer destinations are in or near downtown and a lot of it is walkable or within striking distance from public transportation. You need a car to check out the scene in SD. Also, Oregon's beer laws are far superior to those in California, particularly surrounding growler fills. Bottle shops and taprooms are also better in Portland overall, with bigger, more diverse selections and cheaper beer prices.

    But I agree with you - SD has more "world class" breweries and the beer is overall better in SD. On the plus side, in 5 years things may be totally different and another city may become mecca for craft lovers. It's never a bad thing to be surrounded by amazing beer wherever you go!
    I agree with this. All of it. San Diego has kind of owned the last decade due to being on the forefront of the hop explosion or whatever you want to call it but they are seriously missing the boat on Sour/Wild/Funk. There are a couple new players who will be dabbling in this realm including Societe, which might be the best brewery in SD right now, but they have some catching up to do.

    I still contend Portland is my favorite beer city, cause it's an actual city and you can literally walk from brewery to brewery. I will also say that after having a couple of Boneyard hoppy beers, I would put them in the conversation with the best IPAs in SD.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Tried Breakside? Fanno Creek? Captured By Porches?

    Also, how do Deschutes short run IPA's contend? I'd make a hefty wager on many of their short run IPA's (not including Fresh Squeezed IPA, which is strictly Citra and Mosaic hops)
    I've had Breakside. They are one of my favorites in Portland. I had their stuff two weeks ago when I was up there. I have not had Fanno Creek nor Captured by Porches, although a buddy of mine had Captured's Invasive Species IPA and said it was pretty bad out of the bottle, so I don't think I'm going out of my way to track some of their stuff down.

    Deschutes' IPAs that are brewed at the pubs are great, to be sure. But I'd still rather drink Boneyard. And given the choice between Boneyard and Alpine/Societe/Pizza Port, I'd go with the SD breweries. There's something about the SoCal style of IPA that I enjoy - lighter bodied, restrained bitterness and huge aromatic hops. Just a tremendous balance to the beer rarely matched by other breweries. Deschutes tends to go lighter with the aroma hops and heavier with the malt, which is why most of their beers are darker in color (even their pales.)

    As Carl Hungus said above me, there is definitely something to be said for Portland being an actual "beer city." Cascade, Hair of the Dog, Burnside, Commons, Deschutes, Apex and Bailey's taproom are all pretty close to downtown. In fact, most of the craft beer destinations in Portland are within 3 miles of the downtown area. And it's definitely the place to go if you want to get your Brett and sour beers on.

  175. #175
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    From my office in Downtown Denvr right now, I can walk, yes walk, to:

    Great Divide
    Denver Beer Company
    Probst
    Breckenridge
    Wynkoop
    River North Brewing
    Rock Bottom ( this is where they started)

    I heard there are 14 of them pretty close by. In the metro area it seems endless.

    Carry on.

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    Denver beer facts (article is about a year old)

    There are 139 licensed craft breweries in the state, and there are another 75 breweries in the planning stages.

    Colorado brewers account for at least 6,600 beer-related jobs

    Eight percent of the craft breweries in the U.S. are located in Colorado, which, the study points out, is remarkable considering less than two percent of the country lives in the Centennial State.

    Colorado ranks second among total number of craft breweries, third in breweries per capita, and first in draft beer consumption.

    Beer Buzz: Colorado's Brewing Business | 5280

  177. #177
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    So then we can all agree that Portland, SD and the Greater Denver Area are all better than Ashville, right?

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  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    So then we can all agree that Portland, SD and the Greater Denver Area are all better than Ashville, right?

    :stokethefire:
    LOL. I don't personally feel any urge to determine "best".

    Asheville is too small of a town to compare to those others isn't it?

    I think its pretty meaningless to compare large cities to small towns.
    Durango CO, for example, I consider a very cool little beer town, although I only know of 4 breweries there (Steamworks, Ska, Durango, and Carver). All great.

    Towns like Asheville, Bend, Boulder, Durango, etc, should probably be a different category of meaningless bickering .

    I haven't been to Asheville in a long time, but what I can say is that even though my motto is "west is best", Asheville is VERY cool, and I did some excellent mountain biking in that area!

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    Why San Diego is a better Beer City than Ashville, NC

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Have you had a chance to visit all 70+ Breweries in the county?

    I know I have not, and I have lived here for over 10 years now.
    I have not. Nor have I in Portland though. They keep popping up all over the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Considering he only mentions two breweries I just wonder how much of the San Diego brew scene he has truly experienced to make a comment that Portland is still better.

    Nothing in Portland compares to Alpine or Societe. Societe is going to become the next Russian River IMO.
    Those are most of my favs. I've been to smaller ones all over and frequent pizza port regularly to sample the no names. I brew at home so the need to explore a lot is limited. Regardless, the entire beer scene in Portland is better than SD. Hops are grown everywhere, every restaurant/bar has a variety of beer and they are all close to one another.

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    Why San Diego is a better Beer City than Ashville, NC

    Where do you think SD gets their hops from? The NW!

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    i'm not even a beer drinker and know that colorado DESTROYS san diego in terms of beer culture.

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    Why San Diego is a better Beer City than Ashville, NC

    I can't speak for them recently because I haven't been in about 5 years but year after year SD walks away from them in the rankings. Not sure how SanFran jumped into the #3 spot

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Asheville is too small of a town to compare to those others isn't it?

    I think its pretty meaningless to compare large cities to small towns.
    well, that was the original intent of my comment that SD>Ashville, because year after year Ashville keeps winning some weird online poll that puts them as the best beer city in the US.

    If you go back to my original post it was about showing how in one afternoon I was able to drive to a number of Award winning breweries and enjoy samples with friends and that was not possible to do in Ashville because they do not have as many award winning breweries....


    The entire argument however is starting to get a little tired.

    As to comparing Portland/Denver and San Diego, I personally think it is pretty close to being a three way tie. I have been to Portland and I live in San Diego, and I am planning a beer themed anniversary trip to Denver this September, so I will continue to give my money to breweries from all three local's because they all make award winning beer in one way or another.

    I will say this, SD beer has certainly used it's awards to push its beer up the distribution channel, when I go to NYC to visit I can find more Beer from SD Breweries than I can from most other states. I know this does not exactly equate quality or best, but it is something to consider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm925 View Post
    i'm not even a beer drinker and know that colorado DESTROYS san diego in terms of beer culture.
    Destroys?

    This word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Colorado does not Destroy San Diego in beer culture, have you been to SD in the last 5 years?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    well, that was the original intent of my comment that SD>Ashville, because year after year Ashville keeps winning some weird online poll that puts them as the best beer city in the US.

    If you go back to my original post it was about showing how in one afternoon I was able to drive to a number of Award winning breweries and enjoy samples with friends and that was not possible to do in Ashville because they do not have as many award winning breweries....


    The entire argument however is starting to get a little tired.

    As to comparing Portland/Denver and San Diego, I personally think it is pretty close to being a three way tie. I have been to Portland and I live in San Diego, and I am planning a beer themed anniversary trip to Denver this September, so I will continue to give my money to breweries from all three local's because they all make award winning beer in one way or another.

    I will say this, SD beer has certainly used it's awards to push its beer up the distribution channel, when I go to NYC to visit I can find more Beer from SD Breweries than I can from most other states. I know this does not exactly equate quality or best, but it is something to consider.
    Ok, now I'm sucked in

    "Best" beer city, (as ridiculous as it is to try and argue), may not be the city with the most breweries, or the most awards. There are other things that make a city a great beer city like:

    -Breweries per capita
    -Breweries near each other that can be walked or biked to.
    -A beer oriented section of town or community as a whole
    -Local establishments that carry large selections of microbrews on tap, (regardless of origin), and I suppose bottled beer counts too.
    -Tradition of beer festivals and such
    -Community pride and support of the beer industry
    - A general love of beer by the locals
    -The magical connection between mountain biking and beer
    - Other stuff

    So, for example, I would say Durango, Ft. Collins, and Boulder CO, seem more like "cool beer towns" than Denver, just because the breweries in these small towns have more influence over the character of the town than they can in a large city.
    In Denver I can hit more breweries, and have more variety than in these little towns, but I can also be in parts of Denver that are not part of the beer scene. Those little towns I mentioned are all very mountain bike oriented, which also seems to make them better as beer towns.

  186. #186
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    The answer is Boulder, Colorado. End of argument.

    the only beer san diego has in other markets is the Stone brands.

    also, san diego needs to be defined as 'downtown san diego,' 'escondido' etc. If you frame it like that, you'll see that san diego sucks. heck, even if you use the whole county, it still sucks compared to colorado or oregon. you guys have to drive an hour to get to your trails. we can ride to them from our houses.

    the craft beer renaissance started here in colorado.

    san diego is just a military town w/ no real history and absolutely no bike culture.

    no one rides anywhere in san diego. they all drive...to the store...to the bar..2 hours each way to work. it's a total car culture. everyone hides in their houses and uses any possible excuse to drive the car.

    san diego doesn't have any real mountains.

    if it's not even tall enough to have a tree line and snow on the top year round, it's not a real mountain. idyllwild, big bear etc aren't part of san diego county and are 2-3 hrs by car. again, they dont count. they have zero breweries and beer towns nearby--just a bunch of meth labs and cactuses.

    so to conclude: no mountains, limited breweries that are miles upon miles apart, trails that are encroached upon by tract home communities and walmarts, no open space protection--just whore it out to the highest bidder. bring walmart and costco and pave it all--is the mentality. The first thing california did when it went bankrupt is the fire all national and state-funded parks employees. shit like that WOULD NEVER happen here in colorado.

    No one cares about the environment in socal. They're just about profit and expansion above all else--fcuk the environment. most of the locals probably even couldnt' tell you the last time they've been in the ocean.

    socal is full of people that claim they love the outdoors, and the sunny weather, but then never actually spend any time in it.

    let your sewage systems overflow into the ocean after minor rain showers...no problem. socal has that covered. every time we got a small amount of rain, the beaches would be closed do to dangerously high bacteria levels. you could literally see brown and yellow foam floating on the surface on the water. in laguna beach, their sewage system just overflows into the streets. yep, nuggets on the pch is a regular occurrence.

    In colorado, you can roll around a corner on your local trail, and the air smells of hops and pine needles from the locals enjoying a beer they brought with them.

    we have group rides that start and end at breweries.

    breweries (like oskar blues, for example) are heavily involved in supporting the mountain bike community.


    and chances are, they're riding to a brewery from the trails after their ride, and maybe even back to the trails after that.

    boulder, golden, lyons all support this lifestyle--to name a few towns.

    if you're talking about an area the size of san diego county--lets say denver to ft. collins, then the argument gets even more ludicrous.

    socal has NOTHING on the beer/mountain bike culture in colorado.

    take your big box stores and tract homes and freeways. no thanks. no comparison.

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  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm925 View Post

    the craft beer renaissance started here in colorado.
    Oh, is that where Fritz Maytag opened Anchor Steam back in '65? Or where New Albion got it start in '76?



    And I won't touch the rest of your post, except to say I wish more people shared your opinions because then maybe housing prices would cool off a bit down there.

  188. #188
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    Scorching criticism!

    Even though I am a Colorado boy, I am very familiar with San Diego, friends and family live there. I like it. A lot.
    And no one can deny they make truly great beer there.
    And there is good mountain biking there as well.

    But I would say that the "beer culture" is not as apparent there as it is in Denver or Portland. If you want to find it you can, and it is great, but its not as out in the open. Maybe because there are too many other things going on as well

  189. #189
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    Jamesm925

    you have no idea what you are talking about.

    I can ride to both a brewery and to the trails from my home, and I live in a suburban area of Oceanside.

    Stone is not the only brewery that distributes outside of the state. I have trouble doing trades with my friends in NYC because he can get beers from Ballast Point, Alesmith, Stone and other breweries from San Diego, yet I am unable to get beers like Southern Tier anywhere near the west coast.

    As for the rest of your diatribe, I have heard it before, always from out of state haters who seem to hold some weird grudge against this state and the people who live in it as if the other states in this union are free from corruption and the constant theme of the rich using money and power to take advantage of the poor. I am sorry but there is no such nirvana.

    I am not going to nit pick the things I do not like about your state and present things as facts when I have not presented anything to back it up. Furthermore most of your complaints have nothing to do with the original topic of this thread. Nuggets on PCH is not a regular thing, and that was a very ignorant thing to say. Much of your post is borderline offensive and you should be ashamed of it.

    Please take your Anti-California Hate Speak elsewhere.
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  190. #190
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    No wonder people in Colorado hate California. Apparently it's where we send all our angry a holes.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Jamesm925

    you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Well, he tried to warn you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm925 View Post
    i'm not even a beer drinker and know that colorado DESTROYS san diego in terms of beer culture.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Oh, is that where Fritz Maytag opened Anchor Steam back in '65? Or where New Albion got it start in '76?
    Don't forget the Hopland Brewery (1st Brewpub in the U.S./later became Mendocino Brewing Co.) and Sierra Nevada Brewing. Those are from Colorado too.

  193. #193
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    well, I was referring more to his comments about how he thinks California sewers run out onto PCH and the ocean.... That comment was extremely ignorant.
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  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    No wonder people in Colorado hate California. Apparently it's where we send all our angry a holes.
    Zing! The irony is that there is plenty of urban sprawl in CO too. And on a recent trip to Colorado Springs, my fiancee told me the traffic from Denver was worse even than what we see here in the Bay Area. First world problems - mountain town vs. beach town, and which you prefer. I'd like both!

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Don't forget the Hopland Brewery (1st Brewpub in the U.S./later became Mendocino Brewing Co.) and Sierra Nevada Brewing. Those are from Colorado too.
    True, true! I simply reached back to the origins of the revival. What about the first DIPA down in Southern California, just an hour from SD? Gotta give credit where it is due.

    I hate to say it, but Colorado was actually pretty late to the craft beer game. It was real hard for the smaller guys to get a start in a state completely dominated by Coors.

  195. #195
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    I think the first "craft" beer I ever had was Sierra Nevada, living in No Cal in the mid-late 80's. It had yeast in the bottom of the bottle back then.
    I was in Chico mountain biking in the late 80's. Great trails, college town, and Sierra Nevada brewery. It was my first taste of what a beer town should be.

    I remember drinking Anchor Steam way back as well. And Henry Weinhards.

    I moved to Alabama in 1990 for a while and was pissed that there was no beer selection down there, so I guess even back then I was into the craft scene.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Denver beer facts (article is about a year old)

    There are 139 licensed craft breweries in the state, and there are another 75 breweries in the planning stages.

    Colorado brewers account for at least 6,600 beer-related jobs

    Eight percent of the craft breweries in the U.S. are located in Colorado, which, the study points out, is remarkable considering less than two percent of the country lives in the Centennial State.

    Colorado ranks second among total number of craft breweries, third in breweries per capita, and first in draft beer consumption.

    Beer Buzz: Colorado's Brewing Business | 5280
    A lot has happened in that year, evidently.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I am not sure what the per-Capita numbers really tell anyone these days.

    If you could only purchase and drink the beer your state brews then it might make a difference, but I get and drink beers from all over the US and the world.

    With the ability to distribute across state lines per capita numbers hold very little meaning to me, can someone enlighten me as to why these numbers are important?

    What I get from this list that California at 316 Craft Breweries has the most Breweries of any state in the union, with Washington 158, Colorado 151 and Oregon 140 pulling in 2nd 3rd and 4th.


    What amazes me is that I live in a County that has more Breweries than the majority of States out there. That is pretty cool.
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  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaan View Post
    I think that GuitarMark gave up way too early on his point about San Diego seaweed . . . .
    I hear there is a Kelp IPA coming out of Stone Brewery....Cant wait to try it! ;-)

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm925 View Post
    you guys have to drive an hour to get to your trails. we can ride to them from our houses.

    the craft beer renaissance started here in colorado.

    san diego is just a military town w/ no real history and absolutely no bike culture.
    I don't know when you last visited the SD area but bikes have been invading this area. As for riding whether it's road or moutain, I step out my door and am about 2 miles from the Olympic Training Center which is surrounded by awesome dirt trails that lead up into the mountains and valleys. It my be a little dry and warm but I will take my ability to ride every day of the year and not be rained or snowed out. I am originally from Portland and do love it there but the hipsters have ruined it for me. Colorado is nice don't get me wrong but the elevation and lack of an ocean ruins it for me.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    It my be a little dry and warm but I will take my ability to ride every day of the year and not be rained or snowed out.
    I think a lot of people don't realize Mountain Biking is a 365 day a year kind thing here in San Diego, and for those of us who also like winter sports, it is only a 2 hour drive to the local lifts, winter or summer.

    What is crazy is since I started this thread over 10 new breweries have opened up and this town continues to grow in the beer world.
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