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  1. #1
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    Time To Build The Prime

    Well, the time has finally come for me to start building up my 2013 RAW Prime. Even though I have lost close to 50lbs through diet and exersize, my back is still telling me I need a little more cushion in da rear (I know my technique could improve also, but I really don't want a bad back @ a young age). I will be robbing parts from Trixie, my Sparkle Blue N9, and hope to have in built up by the end of next week.

    Other than the obvious 120>140mm travel increase, and the added rear squish, what should I expect or look for with my PRIME?

    Build list:
    2013 Large RAW
    2014 140mm Pike
    CCDB Coil w/ Renton 550# Ti Spring
    CK 142/12mm 15mmTA Stans Flow EX Wheels
    Hope M4 203mm(f) X2 180mm(r)
    Saint Crank w/ RF 30NW
    X9 Shifting
    Thompson: AM Alloy Handlebar, Stem, Seat Post
    Selle SMP Pro Saddle

    I really shoud be selling my N9 after the build is complete to recoup some funds, but I love that frame soo much idk if I can.

    006 by jonshonda187, on Flickr

    009 by jonshonda187, on Flickr
    Last edited by jonshonda; 07-19-2014 at 06:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    Pressed in the headset (CC40) and chased and faced the bb last night.

    Can't say I am very impressed with the amount of alum. chips laying on the floor after everything was nice and squared up. I was under the impression that higher end frames were supposed to have the service done prior to shipping?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Can't say I am very impressed with the amount of alum. chips laying on the floor after everything was nice and squared up. I was under the impression that higher end frames were supposed to have the service done prior to shipping?

    Hmmm..... Pretty sure they come faced & chased from the factory, mine seemed that way by the paint. Maybe you added some inboard threads?

  4. #4
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    All my Banshee frames seem to have come properly prepped from the factory, but then again I don't have the tools to check. As FM said, maybe you added some threads to the BB

    As to what to expect from the Prime, very efficient climbing, the more technical/rough, the better it climbs. Serious confidence descending, if you've not really got the chunk for it, can make it feel like you're on a monster truck and don't really have to worry about line selection. Quite nimble for how big a bike they are, never had any trouble on slower tech stuff with mine, despite the 48.5" WB, was actually the most stable bike I've had for moves at really slow speeds, especially where you need to pause and re-group, flick it around.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Hmmm..... Pretty sure they come faced & chased from the factory, mine seemed that way by the paint. Maybe you added some inboard threads?
    There was a decend build up of paint on the faces of the shell, which lead me to believe that it was not done...or done before paint?

    I made a drawing of what the issue was (top view of bb shell). The red lines represent the material that was removed to make the shell square and parallel.
    Attachment 906888

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    All my Banshee frames seem to have come properly prepped from the factory, but then again I don't have the tools to check. As FM said, maybe you added some threads to the BB

    As to what to expect from the Prime, very efficient climbing, the more technical/rough, the better it climbs. Serious confidence descending, if you've not really got the chunk for it, can make it feel like you're on a monster truck and don't really have to worry about line selection. Quite nimble for how big a bike they are, never had any trouble on slower tech stuff with mine, despite the 48.5" WB, was actually the most stable bike I've had for moves at really slow speeds, especially where you need to pause and re-group, flick it around.
    I don't have a lot of chunk in my area, I bought the frame because I am a clyde who is hard on/flexes a lot of stuff. The reason I chose the PRIME is for the stiffness and ability to easily hand my forces.

  6. #6
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    There was a decend build up of paint on the faces of the shell, which lead me to believe that it was not done...or done before paint?
    That is odd. Mine had no paint on the BB faces- it had obviously been faced and chased. BB went in smooooth.

  7. #7
    AOK
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    Time To Build The Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    That is odd. Mine had no paint on the BB faces- it had obviously been faced and chased. BB went in smooooth.
    Same here. Frame was well prepped when I got it. I guess the Yellow primes are the "premium" model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Same here. Frame was well prepped when I got it. I guess the Yellow primes are the "premium" model.
    Well, it looks like my frame wasn't treated with such special care. Makes me nervous that my head tube wasn't faced or reamed either. I know my LBS doesn't have the tools for reaming/facing my headtube.

  9. #9
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    My Black Prime frame came properly prepped for build...no chase & face needed...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Same here. Frame was well prepped when I got it. I guess the Yellow primes are the "premium" model.

    What he said

  11. #11
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Well, it looks like my frame wasn't treated with such special care. Makes me nervous that my head tube wasn't faced or reamed either. I know my LBS doesn't have the tools for reaming/facing my headtube.
    Post some pics!
    If your frame is out of tolerance, id contact the shop/distibutor and ask them to either face/chase at no charge, or exchange the frame for one that is within tolerance.

    That said... if the frame is within tolerance, I wouldn't necessarily worry about it being faced/chased. Some brands do it before paint. These days I don't trust LBS's to do this sort of work unless they're an authorized dealer with warranty support, or they do frame work.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Post some pics!
    If your frame is out of tolerance, id contact the shop/distibutor and ask them to either face/chase at no charge, or exchange the frame for one that is within tolerance.
    I have contacted who I feel are the appropriate people to help me figure out what did/didn't happen. IMHO I don't feel like I should have to ask for something from them, it SHOULD BE offered as one of the perks of a high end frame ownership?


    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    That said... if the frame is within tolerance, I wouldn't necessarily worry about it being faced/chased. Some brands do it before paint. These days I don't trust LBS's to do this sort of work unless they're an authorized dealer with warranty support, or they do frame work.
    Based on how much material was removed to square up the shell, I highly doubt it was within tolerance. Facing the bb shell is pretty straight forward, and as long as you thread the taps in correctly (which I did) there is little chance for user error.

    I have continued moving forward with the build, and don't really want to focus on the bb topic any longer. I am hoping my Pike ships today, and can continue the build sooner than later.

  13. #13
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    Well you should be happy, as a bigger guy the stiffness of the Prime/Pike should make you enjoy your ride more
    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I don't have a lot of chunk in my area, I bought the frame because I am a clyde who is hard on/flexes a lot of stuff. The reason I chose the PRIME is for the stiffness and ability to easily hand my forces.
    On the BB thing, I'm sure you'll get sorted, stuff happens, mostly it's caught, but one or two things can make it out the door without being seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  14. #14
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    Added a few pics of the progress!

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    Took her on a maiden voyage yesterday. I need to get everything dialed in, but for now the Large N9 I had prior to this bike gave me a lot more confidence descending. I always felt like I was "in" the bike, where I feel like I am "on top" of the Prime.

    I also noticed the bike likes to be handled much differently than the N9. The N9 I could throw around with my hips (using the saddle) a lot more, whereas the Prime doesn't really respond to that very well.

    I did carry a lot more speed into down hills, but really didn't feel as confident railing burms. I have the neutral chips in right now, maybe I need to swap over to the slack to get that N9 feeling back?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Took her on a maiden voyage yesterday. I need to get everything dialed in, but for now the Large N9 I had prior to this bike gave me a lot more confidence descending. I always felt like I was "in" the bike, where I feel like I am "on top" of the Prime.
    Too small of a frame size on the Prime maybe?

  17. #17
    FM
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    They're very different bikes, and I'm not sure it's realistic to expect the Prime to ride like a 29'er AM hardtail.

    I have both and my Prime gets way more ride time, since it's only a few lbs heavier, and floats over loose chunky rock, soaks up drops and landings, and generally sticks to terrain the hardtail bounces off of at higher speeds....

    But any good hardtail 29'er will have a lower BB and a much shorter wheelbase, compared to most any comparable FS bike. I like my hardtail for smooth, twisty more XC trails that might seem a bit boring to ride on the Prime.

    A bigger bike also requires adjustment to riding style, no doubt. You have to ride further forward and exaggerate all your motions.

    It could be the Prime is not the bike for you, who knows? Not me!
    Your pics never showed up btw.

  18. #18
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    Hum, can't say I had the same experience as you going from the Paradox to the Prime confidence wise, but definitely felt a bit more "up there" because of the added suspension and BB height to accommodate that. I'm not a big guy, that's for sure, barely 175lbs RTR and I found that if I made the conscious effort to really put my hips into and ride the bike instead of just being a passenger that it responded very well, but it did take a lot of effort.

    What length/travel fork were you running on the N9? IIRC it was a 140mm travel, so that would put the HTA somewhere around 67*, so you should prob try the Prime in the slackest setting, will lower the BB and give you similar HTA to what you were running.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Took her on a maiden voyage yesterday. I need to get everything dialed in, but for now the Large N9 I had prior to this bike gave me a lot more confidence descending. I always felt like I was "in" the bike, where I feel like I am "on top" of the Prime.

    I also noticed the bike likes to be handled much differently than the N9. The N9 I could throw around with my hips (using the saddle) a lot more, whereas the Prime doesn't really respond to that very well.

    I did carry a lot more speed into down hills, but really didn't feel as confident railing burms. I have the neutral chips in right now, maybe I need to swap over to the slack to get that N9 feeling back?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Too small of a frame size on the Prime maybe?
    I have a Large and I am 6'2", and was advised by many that a Large would be just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    What length/travel fork were you running on the N9? IIRC it was a 140mm travel, so that would put the HTA somewhere around 67*, so you should prob try the Prime in the slackest setting, will lower the BB and give you similar HTA to what you were running.
    I had a 120mm on the N9, and also a setback seat post.

    I think the Pike was riding just a little too saged, and was blowing through travel a little too easy, which may have been giving me that "on top" feeling.

    I have swapped the setback post on (I have a longer torso than legs, but still have a 79cm center of crank/saddle height) which seemed to help on the N9. I have also added a token to the pike. Now I won't have time to ride it again until Sunday.

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    Not sure what your stack height is on the bars, but you might consider lowering the bars a bit to bring your weight more forward. The Prime is pretty slack and also has a long wheelbase, which translates to more stability going straight but a bit more effort digging into corners. The more you can use your weight to drive the front end into a corner, the better, as the back end will follow.

    On a long travel 29er with with a slack HA and long stays, you aren't going to be able to ride the back end through corners like you will be able to on a hardtail. You will, however, be able to push the bike harder into corners with a lot more grip once you are more confident in getting aggressive with it.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    The more you can use your weight to drive the front end into a corner, the better, as the back end will follow.
    Best advice ever!
    I have great days and OK days on the Prime. The great days are when I remember to stay as low & forward as possible, and keep my knees and elbows wide open.

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    I appreciate the advice guys!! My stack height is pretty high right now, but I can flip a few things around to see if that improves things.

    I like babyz comment about being able to ride the back end through corners on a hardtail. Putting more weigh up front is going to be a challenge, but I am up for it.

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    Yup, that is so true and the one thing it took me a while to figure out, but if you commit and put that weight on the front to get the grip it will give, you'll be amazed at how fast you can corner. Personally now a bit more comfortable on the size L Phantom with a 450mm Reach compared to the XL PP Prime with it's 472mm Reach, also the 2.5" shorter WB definitely helps - didn't really understand the whole Reach concept then and just went by ETT, so figured a shorter stem would make up the difference, but she was just too big for me and my size to muscle around as effectively as the L Phantom.
    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    On a long travel 29er with with a slack HA and long stays, you aren't going to be able to ride the back end through corners like you will be able to on a hardtail. You will, however, be able to push the bike harder into corners with a lot more grip once you are more confident in getting aggressive with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    if you have a longer torso than legs perhaps the XL would have been better to create that 'in the bike' feeling. I'm just as tall as you and can't imagine riding a Large properly. (I'm on a Spitfire but it's close enough to compare).

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I have a Large and I am 6'2", and was advised by many that a Large would be just fine.



    I had a 120mm on the N9, and also a setback seat post.

    I think the Pike was riding just a little too saged, and was blowing through travel a little too easy, which may have been giving me that "on top" feeling.

    I have swapped the setback post on (I have a longer torso than legs, but still have a 79cm center of crank/saddle height) which seemed to help on the N9. I have also added a token to the pike. Now I won't have time to ride it again until Sunday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooldaddy View Post
    if you have a longer torso than legs perhaps the XL would have been better to create that 'in the bike' feeling. I'm just as tall as you and can't imagine riding a Large properly. (I'm on a Spitfire but it's close enough to compare).
    Based on the geo of the Large N9 and Prime, I think the Prime is a larger frame, which should provide a little more room to move around. I am not expert though, so maybe someone could point to the major geo differences between the two bike (other than the obvious CS length).

    I don't really want to rush to conclusions yet, as I know I don't have everything dialed in. Once I know forsure I have the sag correct, enough tokens and air in the fork, and the rear shock dialed. I will then start *****ing if it doesn't feel right.

    Time To Build The Prime-n9-geo.jpg

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  26. #26
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    You are correct, the Large Prime has a Reach of 440mm and the XL N9 has a Reach of 439mm, so L Prime=XL N9 Reach. All I think you're experiencing is the same thing I did when I first got the Prime feeling a bit more "up there" because of the travel and higher BB, once you've had it for a bit and put in some miles, it will start to feel right, like 2nd nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Based on the geo of the Large N9 and Prime, I think the Prime is a larger frame, which should provide a little more room to move around. I am not expert though, so maybe someone could point to the major geo differences between the two bike (other than the obvious CS length).

    I don't really want to rush to conclusions yet, as I know I don't have everything dialed in. Once I know forsure I have the sag correct, enough tokens and air in the fork, and the rear shock dialed. I will then start *****ing if it doesn't feel right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

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    So the setback seatpost is helping, and I might switch to a 90mm stem from the 70. I also may lower the stack height a bit. One thing at a time....I know.

    I did see a large improvement from adding a token to my Pike, and did a bit of tuning on the CCDB with the lcs/lsr. I am still finding this thing to be quite different in the corners compared to what I am used to.

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    Setback post, 90mm stem? Definitely on the wrong size frame IMO. I would rather be on a bigger frame/short stem than small frame and long stem. Even 70mm is longish these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Setback post, 90mm stem? Definitely on the wrong size frame IMO. I would rather be on a bigger frame/short stem than small frame and long stem. Even 70mm is longish these days.
    +1. stem size design on most frames 50mm, now some are even shorter. if i needed more than 50mm i'd move up a size too

  30. #30
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    Setback post has NOTHING to do with if a frame is too big or small, it has to do with STA and leg length, full stop. I have always had to run a setback post on all of my, so far XL frames for my long 35.25" inseam and steep STA of 74*> like the Prime is a definite. On my Phantom I actually have the saddle pushed about as far as it should go back on the rails as well as the setback post because the STA is steeper than the Prime by a bit.

    As to the stem, remember, he got this frame for it's burliness for his size, so maybe he won't be using it to the more aggressive side of it's possible usage

    For me, for anything I'm sposed to be able to ride down AND pedal up a lot, I find it hard to use a stem shorter than 60mm, I think Josh is just going to take some time to get accustomed to the different feeling of the Prime compared to the N9 and if he gives the 70mm a chance, may come to like it, but 90mm wouldn't be all that bad if he feels he needs it. Personally these days I like a stem for such an up/down bike in the 60-80mm range, normally somewhere between 65-75mm.
    Curious Josh, what width bar are you using? If it's <740mm, then maybe a wider bar might be in order and would make the 70mm stem feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Setback post, 90mm stem? Definitely on the wrong size frame IMO. I would rather be on a bigger frame/short stem than small frame and long stem. Even 70mm is longish these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  31. #31
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    Always wary of people using "enduro" long-reach geometry to get their long, time-trial road bike fit on an MTB with a 50mm stem. Likewise...frame sizing by leg length and STA doesn't tell you much about how a bike descends out of the saddle...

    I'm sure we can all agree that it's the whole package that counts, not just reach or ETT, chainstay length, whatever.

    I do think that a lot of riders with a road or XC background are convinced they need a much longer bike than they really need (yes that was me years ago) and there's no silver bullet...longer = faster, but not so hot for jumps/drops and corners.

    Anyways...Jonshonda- I wouldn't offer you any fit advice without riding with you first. But I would say... a 90mm stem - even a 70- on a Prime is like lo-pro tires on a lifted truck....just ain't right!

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    I was just tossing some stuff around in my head with regards to fitment. I will lower the stack height first to see if that improved the feel of being soo high over my front wheel.

    Maybe its because I was coming from a 120mm TOWER PRO, and now riding a 140mm Pike? I would be interested to know the distance of both the N9 (w/ 120mm tower) and Prime (w/140mm pike) from the ground to the top of the head tube.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I would be interested to know the distance of both the N9 (w/ 120mm tower) and Prime (w/140mm pike) from the ground to the top of the head tube.
    The Prime will have a higher BB, so the fork/Headtube would also be longer to get you the same "stack" (think feet to hands, rather than ground to hands)

    I think if you look at most riders who are happy with their Primes, or any other similar burly AM FS 29'ers, nearly all are running 50mm stems, flat or 20mm rise wide riser bars, and no spacers under the stem. Thats a recipe for a bike that will corner and descend well, assuming the correct frame size.

    6'2" on a large sounds good. An XL would have an even longer wheelbase which is going to slow the bike down in corners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    6'2" on a large sounds good. An XL would have an even longer wheelbase which is going to slow the bike down in corners.
    see to me it doesn't sound right. He describes himself as having a longer torso than legs. At 6'2" that would make an XL a better fit imho, with no-offset seat post and short stem. You can't ride around an ill fitting bike, you can adjust the riding style and deal with the longer wheelbase. These longer bikes require a bit more aggressive cornering, weight more forward style, to avoid the bike bogging down in corners.
    I'm 6'2" on an XL Spitfire, torso or legs aren't out of wack. I come from an xc stretched out riding past as well, where bikes were short and stems loooong. I've been going shorter and shorter in small steps to avoid getting frustrated with big adjustments, soon I'll change from a 65 mm stem to 60 or 55 and I switched from a fixed off-set seatpost to a center-mount dropper to stay centered on the bike. That simply wouldn't be possible if my bike was a Large. Never had a bike that fitted and rode as well as this XL Spitfire. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    The Prime will have a higher BB, so the fork/Headtube would also be longer to get you the same "stack" (think feet to hands, rather than ground to hands)

    I think if you look at most riders who are happy with their Primes, or any other similar burly AM FS 29'ers, nearly all are running 50mm stems, flat or 20mm rise wide riser bars, and no spacers under the stem. Thats a recipe for a bike that will corner and descend well, assuming the correct frame size.
    I don't do a lot of descending, and this fact has seemed to go unaccounted for every time I ask about the prime being a good bike for me. I am just a big dude who wants a full squish that will handle correctly under my weight. I doubt you will EVAR see another prime riding in my area, as the travel really isn't required for 75% of the riding I do. There are a lot of 110-120mm full squish bikes rolling around here, as that may be an more appropriate bike/geometery for the conditions.

    I have been lead to believe that I would be able to set the bike up to be a burley XC type of bike.....if that is what I wanted.

    Like others have mentioned, it WILL take some getting used to. It sounds like switching from any ht to full squish would come with a bit of a learning curve.

  36. #36
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    I do think it comes down to personal preference, as I said earlier I wouldn't offer any fit advice without riding with someone first.

    I do have several friends over 6' who liked the fit of my medium, and honestly at 5-9 I'd prefer a slightly shorter top tube and wheelbase than my medium prime. The prime is also a much bigger/longer bike than a spitty... Food for thought!

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    I now see how much bigger an XL Prime is over the XL Spitfire. Interesting. OK I take back my previous feedback lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I do think it comes down to personal preference, as I said earlier I wouldn't offer any fit advice without riding with someone first.

    I do have several friends over 6' who liked the fit of my medium, and honestly at 5-9 I'd prefer a slightly shorter top tube and wheelbase than my medium prime. The prime is also a much bigger/longer bike than a spitty... Food for thought!

  38. #38
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    I would really like to ride a 27.5 spitty with a similar build to my Prime...more travel and a shorter wheelbase sound good. I do love the big wheels though. Hard to say without actually riding both!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I don't do a lot of descending, and this fact has seemed to go unaccounted for every time I ask about the prime being a good bike for me. I am just a big dude who wants a full squish that will handle correctly under my weight. I doubt you will EVAR see another prime riding in my area, as the travel really isn't required for 75% of the riding I do. There are a lot of 110-120mm full squish bikes rolling around here, as that may be an more appropriate bike/geometery for the conditions.

    I have been lead to believe that I would be able to set the bike up to be a burley XC type of bike.....if that is what I wanted.

    Like others have mentioned, it WILL take some getting used to. It sounds like switching from any ht to full squish would come with a bit of a learning curve.
    I wonder if you would be happier on a Phantom?

    I'm far from an expert, but it doesn't seem to make sense to put you on an AM bike just because your a big dude to only ride XC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    I wonder if you would be happier on a Phantom?

    I'm far from an expert, but it doesn't seem to make sense to put you on an AM bike just because your a big dude to only ride XC.
    On a few occasions I asked Keith the same questions, and his response every time was "for a guy your size....I would go PRIME!!!"

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I don't do a lot of descending...

    I have been lead to believe that I would be able to set the bike up to be a burley XC type of bike.....if that is what I wanted.
    For many of us near mountains"burly XC" means big descents...just not so much airtime and plenty of climbing too.

    But regardless the prime will work out great good for you... Just keep an open mind!

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    I think FM's right, it's just going to take time to adjust yourself to the FS after riding the HT for so long. I was very happy with my PP Prime for over 3 years and I'm a paltry 160lbs nekked, the suspension is just so good, it climbs amazing and descents were just super confident. If I was a heavier dude I wouldn't have minded, but being the lightweight I was, it was just too much for me and the Phantom suites me better. Maybe a Phantom would suit better, maybe, but I'd give the Prime a good shot before you write it off. Will say, that so far the Phantom has really blown me away, more connected feel to the trail, more efficient climbing and not noticing the lack of travel on the downs, but almost the same confidence as the Prime, but I don't have any serious, fast descents with big drops etc and I don't weigh anything, so not sure how it's feel under a guy of Josh's size.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    of Josh's size.
    Where did you get Josh from?

    I am not even close to thinking about doing anything other than riding the bike and getting it dialed in. I was more just curious about the differences in fit/feel I was observing, and if anyone else had similar results.

    I have dropped the stack height a lot, almost slammed. I will ride it that way and see how it feels. I do have a Thomson 730mm bar, but it feels a little too wide now vs. the N9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I don't do a lot of descending, and this fact has seemed to go unaccounted for every time I ask about the prime being a good bike for me. I am just a big dude who wants a full squish that will handle correctly under my weight. I doubt you will EVAR see another prime riding in my area, as the travel really isn't required for 75% of the riding I do. There are a lot of 110-120mm full squish bikes rolling around here, as that may be an

    I have been lead to believe that I would be able to set the bike up to be a burley XC type of bike.....if that is what I wanted.

    Like others have mentioned, it WILL take some getting used to. It sounds like switching from any ht to full squish would come with a bit of a learning curve.
    Good luck with your new bike.
    -Z
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    rocnbikemeld

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    Sorry Dude, every time I read it the "n" seemed to not be there, saw Josh dyslexia, not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Where did you get Josh from?
    Wow, 6'2" and a 730mm wide bar feels too wide I won't ride anything narrower than 750mm these days, prefer my 785mm bar, despite sometimes making it a bit difficult in the really tight stuff, but the control it gives in the chunk and tech fars out weighs the small negatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I am not even close to thinking about doing anything other than riding the bike and getting it dialed in. I was more just curious about the differences in fit/feel I was observing, and if anyone else had similar results.

    I have dropped the stack height a lot, almost slammed. I will ride it that way and see how it feels. I do have a Thomson 730mm bar, but it feels a little too wide now vs. the N9.
    Last edited by LyNx; 07-31-2014 at 12:00 PM.
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    FM
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    FYI. LyNx's real name is LYnda NiXon. I think.

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    VERY, very close FM
    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    FYI. LyNx's real name is LYnda NiXon. I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Wow, 6'2" and a 730mm wide bar feels too wide I won't ride anything narrower than 750mm these days, prefer my 785mm bar, despite sometimes making it a bit difficult in the really tight stuff, but the control it gives in the chunk and tech fars out weighs the small negatives.
    Maybe its the Thomson bar itself. I have an Answer Pro Taper 720 on my fatbike, and I like that very much. Maybe I will try a pro taper on this bike too?

    Anything wider than 730 on my trails...... and after no too long your knuckles will look like Tysons from punching soo many trees.

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    720 isn't overly narrow, still 28"+ (for some reason it just sounds narrow). I run 780 (30") which is normally totally fine in Colorado, but the other day I found a super flowy trail through a ton of trees that caused a few oh sh!t moments. That hadn't happened in years, if I rode it often I'd start cutting my bars...

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    Finally got a chance to go for a ride today after dropping my stack over 1" (I error on the side of caution to start out...don't hate!!)

    What a difference it has made in the feel. It no longer feels like a monster truck, I am starting to feel a bit more in "tune" with the bike. The bars don't feel nearly as wide, and a lot more comfy. Thanks for the tips fellas!!

    This was only my 3rd ride on the prime (3yo and 8mo at home, as well as a yet identified strain in my calf/hammy), and I am liking it more. Just my luck tonight was one of the only times this week I could ride, and it poured rain for a hour before the ride. Time to get out the cleaning supplies. Sooooo much for a clean bike.

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    Glad things are feeling better. I always run about 1-2" of saddle to bar drop on my bikes (used to be more in years past when I was younger), but like you also started with the bars a bit high, about level with saddle height and it still climbed like a Mtn Goat on crack, but front end felt a good bit Ugh on fast descents, going back to my usual drop helped put weight on the front and it improved immensely.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Finally got a chance to go for a ride today after dropping my stack over 1" (I error on the side of caution to start out...don't hate!!)

    What a difference it has made in the feel. It no longer feels like a monster truck, I am starting to feel a bit more in "tune" with the bike. The bars don't feel nearly as wide, and a lot more comfy. Thanks for the tips fellas!!

    This was only my 3rd ride on the prime (3yo and 8mo at home, as well as a yet identified strain in my calf/hammy), and I am liking it more. Just my luck tonight was one of the only times this week I could ride, and it poured rain for a hour before the ride. Time to get out the cleaning supplies. Sooooo much for a clean bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    Got a chance to ride again last night. I am thinking I have the fit very close with the setback post and only (1) 1/2" spacer under the stem. I have dialed the lsc & lsr to be a little on the stiff side for now.

    I feel like this thing has WAYYYY more traction when climbing steep stuff out of the saddle than my N9 or YS did.

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    Yup, I got that same feeling real quick when I switched from the Paradox (which I thought was the best climbing bike ever) to the Prime, the rear just follows the terrain and gives way more tyre to ground contact and hence traction - seemed if I could keep the gear turning over, no matter how slowly it would keep climbing on up.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I feel like this thing has WAYYYY more traction when climbing steep stuff out of the saddle than my N9 or YS did.
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    Have about 60 miles on the bike now....really liking it more and more each ride. I have developed a creak/pop when pedaling. Doesn't happen when not pedaling, and happens seated or standing. I have greased the dropouts and rear axle, and tightened down the front chainring.

    Taking the wife out for her second ride today, so I will have some time to kill while she catches up.

    You guys grease your suspension pivots often? Any other tips for creaks on a full suspension?

  55. #55
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    If it doesn't happen when you're pedaling, then it has nothing to do with the suspension most likely, check your crankset, check your chainrings, check your pedals.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Have about 60 miles on the bike now....really liking it more and more each ride. I have developed a creak/pop when pedaling. Doesn't happen when not pedaling, and happens seated or standing. I have greased the dropouts and rear axle, and tightened down the front chainring.

    Taking the wife out for her second ride today, so I will have some time to kill while she catches up.

    You guys grease your suspension pivots often? Any other tips for creaks on a full suspension?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  56. #56
    FM
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    My Prime's developed a creak a couple of times, everytime it's been the seatpost/seat tube. Thick grease or anti-seize fixed it.

    Not a big deal to check the pivots, just pull the axles and check to see if the bearings rotate smoothly. If they don't rotate or fall out, the bearing bores may need some work, which is actually not as bad as it sounds. Never a bad idea to pop the bearing seals and repack with grease while it's all apart. Don't bother to remove the bearings unless there are obvious issues.

    Anyways I've gone through this several times, and the pivots/bearings were never actually the source of the creak.

    I've also concluded that any bike that gets ridden hard will have some creaks!

  57. #57
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    Didn't suggest the seatpost/seatpost interface because he said it stopped while pedaling, but always a good place to check. Had a guy with a TranceX, had a creak, sounded like it could be the headset, pulled that, checked bearings and re-greased to no avail, then checked the BB and cranks, chainrings bolts, pedals and it slowly seemed to make it's way back, then thought to check the torque on the seatpost clamp and it wasn't tightened properly, torqued it up and noise was gone.
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    I've had my rear axle creak on me before...that was the issue last time. Sometimes even the saddle rails can creak. The best way to eliminate the saddle/seat issue is to remove it from the frame and test ride it. Not so easy if you have a remote dropper however.

    Your frame is fairly new right? Doubt it would be the pivots, just make sure everything is torque'd to spec.

    Oh and grease the sh!t out of the axle...it's probably the axle

  59. #59
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    Time To Build The Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I've had my rear axle creak on me before...
    Same here. Particularly the little nut that goes into the drive side of the 142x12 axle.

    Despite several bouts of creaking, it has never been due to the Prime suspension or pivots. Always the rear axle or in one case my headset.

  60. #60
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    Three spots I've found creak/squeaks on my Prime.
    1. Rear axle (it has been quiet since I replaced the OEM 150mm with a Maxle)
    2. Seat post (RS Reverb with Salsa Liplock)
    3. BB/Crankset

    All of them were on components that you can find creaking (on any bike) and none of the creaks originated from the suspension or frame itself...
    Last edited by C.P.; 08-19-2014 at 10:17 AM.

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    The creaks on my Prime come from KS Lev's seat clamp......Can't make it quiet !!!

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    Pulled the rear end appart and greased all mating surfaces of the flip chips, greased the axle and associated concact points, and snugged up the preload on my CK hubs just a tad, as I could feel a little bit of play. I also snugged up the chainring bolts and made sure the lock ring was tight on the cassette.

    I am pretty sure the noise is gone for now, but something is feeling funky with my crankset area. Time to evaluate pedals/bb/arms before the race this wknd.

  63. #63
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    Well the GREAT news is that it's dead simple since Banshee has their heads on and still use threaded BBs, so easy to remove and service and replace if you need.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Pulled the rear end appart and greased all mating surfaces of the flip chips, greased the axle and associated concact points, and snugged up the preload on my CK hubs just a tad, as I could feel a little bit of play. I also snugged up the chainring bolts and made sure the lock ring was tight on the cassette.

    I am pretty sure the noise is gone for now, but something is feeling funky with my crankset area. Time to evaluate pedals/bb/arms before the race this wknd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    Everything felt great on the last ride. No noises out of the ordinary. Race is tomorrow, lots of sand I guess, so NN better be up to the task of directing all 270lbs of us around the trails.

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    Well, the Prime treated me right in the race this wknd. Got 4th, and I was WAYYYY over biked for the trails. But man....that rear squish is really nice.

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    Time To Build The Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Well, the Prime treated me right in the race this wknd. Got 4th, and I was WAYYYY over biked for the trails. But man....that rear squish is really nice.
    That is the cool thing about the Prime. I am way over biked for most of the trails I ride with it. But I don't feel like I am giving up much other than a little weight. Handling is great, and it is an efficient pedaler with the KS link. Just a great all-around bike.

    I have a Phantom coming in soon. It will be interesting to see which one I prefer in the long run.

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    If that statement is right, I do believe that you will order up some even more burly parts for the Prime in time, to keep for Park days or lift days the Phantom will be your go to bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    That is the cool thing about the Prime. I am way over biked for most of the trails I ride with it. But I don't feel like I am giving up much other than a little weight. Handling is great, and it is an efficient pedaler with the KS link. Just a great all-around bike.

    I have a Phantom coming in soon. It will be interesting to see which one I prefer in the long run.
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    Took the Prime and my 9ZERO7 to Cuyuna in Mn., had a blast!!


    026 by jonshonda187, on Flickr

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    Well, after much riding, tweaking, evaluation, I have decided to move up to an XL Prime. Found a nice one today, and hopefully will be riding it within the next week.

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