Thinking about a Prime but not sure, too many choices? Please help.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Thinking about a Prime but not sure, too many choices? Please help.

    I figured those that own them might be able to help me chose the best bike for me. I'm 36, somewhat heavy, and 5'9" so I ride a medium. I currently am riding a Rockshox Bluto'd Boris X9 fat bike as my primary but have extensive riding on older full suspension bikes and I'm trying to reclaim my health and ride the way I used to. My riding varies a bit. I ride several miles of pavement to get to the dirt trail system so I need something that has decent manners on the road too. I actually ride my fat bike about 6 miles of paved and 5 miles of nasty singletrack on a regular basis just fine but the bike is about 38 LBS and the 4" tires hold me back a bit. The thing draws me to the Prime the most is how it is so adaptable to changes and really like the fact you can run a 29+ tire on it since I'm kind of into anything over regular 2" tires. My concerns are that with 29+ would it ride weird with me being only 5'9"? We have a local endure series that I'm looking to start doing as well. I sell the chainstays are short but would this bike still wheelie decent as a 29er. I play around with wheelies a bit too. Any advice would help. Thanks

  2. #2
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    I was kinda put off by the thought of the prime being a heavy pig that only liked to be ridden downhill. People kinda complain about the weight, which also was a factor. I bought the bike because I wanted something a big guy could depend on day after day, not because I wanted a rocket that weighted 25 lbs.

    Now that I have ridden/raced the Prime I can say I not longer even think about how the bike pedals, or how much it weights. It is a perfect all around bike. It does just fine on the roads, and excellent on the trails. It will take a little getting used to, but I do just fine in the group ride with the faster xc race rigs.

    29+ might be stretching the limits of the design for the frame. 650b might be a little better choice ihmo.

  3. #3
    FM
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    The weight is a non-issue. Mine built up easily to 30lbs with a dropper post, which is lighter than a few carbon enduro bikes.

    I haven't personally ridden 29+, but I would say this... The chainstays are short, but the wheelbase on a medium is around 46" depending on your fork (with 2.3 tires). I don't imagine super massive tires are going to make the prime feel more nimble. This isn't a dig on the prime at all, just saying I think long travel/slack 29" can be a bit of a handling challenge for us in the 5'-9" range. Corners are where it's noticable.

    I eventually switched to a spitfire, which has been awesome. Like the Prime but quicker in the corners.

    My hunch is that 29+ on a Prime would just be too much bike.
    But maybe 27+ on a prime would get you the fatty tires and still corner well.
    Or get a spitty and put super wide rims on it. With the extra travel wide tires might be redundant?

    Just random thoughts....

  4. #4
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    I'd add that the Prime pedals exceptionally well. I honestly thought it climbed as well if not better than my Phantom.

  5. #5
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    Regarding the weight - my XL frame with dropouts/axle, shock bolts and nothing else is just under 8 lb. I guess I could have saved 2 pounds and got myself a weaker 6lb frame, but I'll pass on that. As far as I'm concerned, the best place to put an extra 1 or 2 lbs is in the foundation of the bike. It's nice to land a jump off-camber and not have to feel the frame flex and wonder if it's going to break (and my last frame eventually did). I weigh 225, and the burlier frame just feels better when you start pushing it or even when just standing and mashing a tall gear.

    Now that I have a bike that is built like a brick s-house, 150mm rear and all, nothing less will do.

    The anti-squat on this bike seems to be perfect for me, it pedals beautifully. I've not run a granny, so can't speak to that.

    29+ is pushing it for this frame. However as wider rims become more commonplace, I think we are going to see more tires in the 2.5 - 2.7 range. And the Prime will handle those no problem.

    Other pluses are adjustable geo, threaded BB, and low standover.

  6. #6
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    I'll try to add if I can. I'm a light gu, fully kitted to ride, maybe 185lbs and when the Prime was my main ride I rode it with guys on 24lb high end carbon bikes and never once thought the bike held me back. I'm in agreement with FM on the 29+ thing, I initially mocked mine up with new 29+ tyres in the slack position and they fit, never took them on the trail, just felt really weird tooling around on the tarmac and little dirt near my house - A few months later they had grown so much that they no longer would fit with the standard drop outs, but that can be solved with the 650B drop outs which give you an extra 10mm length. I think that the 650B+ in the 2.8" range would be a sweet setup to try on the Prime or Phantom, would keep the overall wheel diameter closer to a stock 2.3" 29er setup and weight would also be fairly similar.

    Not sure if you've tried them yet, but some nice 2.4" tyres on some nice wide rims are amazing, they increase the tyre width by quite a bit, while also giving the tyre so much support you will hardly feel any tyre roll and the bike will feel like it's on rails in corners. I tried my Dually45s (39mm internal width) and my 2.4" Chunky Monkey upfront and 2.4" Ardent in rear and could not believe how amazing it was, so before you go thinking PLUS is all that it is, give a wide rim and good 2.4" a try. Right now that thew WTB TB 2.8" tyres are becoming more easily available, I will be giving them a go on my Paradox, Prime and Phantom to see exactly what it's like, hopefully within then next month or two.

    As to wheelies, absolutely no issues getting the front wheel up in the air, damn easy in fact, IMHO.
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  7. #7
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    Also thinking of a Prime. I rode Specialised 2016 Stumpys recently (29 & 6 Fattie) and really liked the geometry of both. Looking for a similar ride in another brand. The Speccy Enduro 29er was nice but didn't climb as well in the technical stuff. Front wheel tended to lift too much. The Stumpys descended good enough for me. I loved how I could point and shoot the 27.5+ version into anything.

    I heard a few creaks in these bikes from the headsets. I have found it hard to silence my 2011 Camber & 2003 Enduro over the years. Maybe a Banshee with some solid BB and headset hardware would give me the quiet solid ride I seek.

    I'm not tech savvy enough to understand how a Prime can be adjusted to utilise various hub widths. Could you run Boost wheels and say 2.8" tyres in a 2016 Prime to end up with a 27.5+ bike? Maybe future models from Banshee will be designed to create a purpose built 27.5+. I keep going back to the fun factor of the Stumpy 6Fattie.

  8. #8
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    You don't need boost hubs to run 27.5+.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    You don't need boost hubs to run 27.5+.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    What would you suggest to get 2.8" - 3" tyres on wider rims into a Prime? I believe I would end up with an overall tyre diameter just shy of a 29er, maintaining the nice roll over advantage. I know enough to know I know little about how you can customise a Prime with various dropout options.

  10. #10
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    I'd suggest a wider rim mostly. What do you have presently for wheels?

    The hub won't change tire clearance in the rear triangle. You should be fine with either the 142 x 12 or 150 x 12 drop outs. You could even get the 650b drop outs and run 29+ tires.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I'd suggest a wider rim mostly. What do you have presently for wheels?

    The hub won't change tire clearance in the rear triangle. You should be fine with either the 142 x 12 or 150 x 12 drop outs. You could even get the 650b drop outs and run 29+ tires.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    Thanks. Just got 2.0" X 26" tyres on DT Swiss 445D 24mm rims (2011 Camber). After demoing these newer bikes (29 & 27.5+) I was crushing the trails like never before and riding a lot faster. Obviously it wasn't just the wheels and tyres though.

    I have to go and educate myself on how rear dropouts work. I used to think the frame design locked you in to a particular hub width. I will do some reading on the subject. Maybe you can do pretty much what you want with wheels and tyres on a Prime?

  12. #12
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    OK, it seems you can use various wheels and hubs, but tyre width on a Prime is limited to 2.5" and 2.4" on a Phantom according to Banshee's published specs.

    But then I saw these example of people using up to 3" tyres...
    B+ PRIME (or Phantom). Let's talk about it. - Page 3- Mtbr.com
    http://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes...ut-939538.html
    http://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes...es-963837.html

    Maybe they are cramming in the big rubber but the clearance is not really good enough?

    There are so many permutations of hub, wheel, tyre, BB, crank and whether you use a single or dual chainring. You want to be sure about what you are doing to make it work. I don't know enough so would ask the dealer what is proven to work well.

    Maybe Banshee will do a 27.5+ specific frame in the future? Maybe it is already here in the Prime? A little confused

  13. #13
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    No, we're not, the clearance on the Banshee frames is HUGE,you can easily fit a Maxxis Chronicle 3" tyre into the width, just need to use the 650B drop outs if it's the Prime or Phantom, 650B+ tyres are no trouble at all as they measure up about 1/2-1/4" shorter than a 2.4" 29er tyre.

    Yes, the Prime and Phantom are already 650B+ compatible, they are also Boost compatible if enough people ask for it, as it only requires different drop outs. Personally though, I wouldn't waste my time with it, would go straight to 150x12 like I did at the beginning of this year on mine - fantastic chainline, finally.

    Quote Originally Posted by enuenu View Post
    OK, it seems you can use various wheels and hubs, but tyre width on a Prime is limited to 2.5" and 2.4" on a Phantom according to Banshee's published specs.

    But then I saw these example of people using up to 3" tyres...
    B+ PRIME (or Phantom). Let's talk about it. - Page 3- Mtbr.com
    http://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes...ut-939538.html
    http://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes...es-963837.html

    Maybe they are cramming in the big rubber but the clearance is not really good enough?

    There are so many permutations of hub, wheel, tyre, BB, crank and whether you use a single or dual chainring. You want to be sure about what you are doing to make it work. I don't know enough so would ask the dealer what is proven to work well.

    Maybe Banshee will do a 27.5+ specific frame in the future? Maybe it is already here in the Prime? A little confused
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    No, we're not, the clearance on the Banshee frames is HUGE,you can easily fit a Maxxis Chronicle 3" tyre into the width, just need to use the 650B drop outs if it's the Prime or Phantom, 650B+ tyres are no trouble at all as they measure up about 1/2-1/4" shorter than a 2.4" 29er tyre.

    Yes, the Prime and Phantom are already 650B+ compatible, they are also Boost compatible if enough people ask for it, as it only requires different drop outs. Personally though, I wouldn't waste my time with it, would go straight to 150x12 like I did at the beginning of this year on mine - fantastic chainline, finally.
    Thanks. Recent investigations have revealed that getting chain line issues correct are key to ensure the chain doesn't rub on parts it's not supposed to and prevent ghost shifting and other shifting issues. You state that you finally got a fantastic chain line. That indicates that even a person with a lot more knowledge than me had to work at this issue to get it right and working reliably.

    I have recently read that 1 X 11 set ups can be prone to problems due to chain line issues. I had just assumed because they were widely used, they worked without issues. I want a bomb proof bike as I want to ride, not be back and forth on forums trying to sort issues.

    If I could impose on your time a little more, what drive train components did you use to get your dialled Prime (BB, cranks, chainring, chain, chain guide cassette, wheel, hub & tyre)? No point in me going through all the trial and error if someone else has it dialled and willing to share the secret sauce recipe. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Don't have a clue what you're talking about, I still run a 2x setup using 9spd, no clue about 11spd or single ring. As to how I went about getting a better chainline, first off I build a 135 x 10 rear using a Hope SS/Trials short freehub and ran 6 cogs about 7 years ago and ran that on my bikes since then. I then got the Prime PP and stuck to 135x10 because I didn't want to build a new set of wheels right then, got the Phantom with 135x10 and after about a 10 months ordered the 150x12 drop outs, built my new wheels and away I went with basically the same chainline as I was used to running the short freehub and cassette.

    Quote Originally Posted by enuenu View Post
    Thanks. Recent investigations have revealed that getting chain line issues correct are key to ensure the chain doesn't rub on parts it's not supposed to and prevent ghost shifting and other shifting issues. You state that you finally got a fantastic chain line. That indicates that even a person with a lot more knowledge than me had to work at this issue to get it right and working reliably.

    I have recently read that 1 X 11 set ups can be prone to problems due to chain line issues. I had just assumed because they were widely used, they worked without issues. I want a bomb proof bike as I want to ride, not be back and forth on forums trying to sort issues.

    If I could impose on your time a little more, what drive train components did you use to get your dialled Prime (BB, cranks, chainring, chain, chain guide cassette, wheel, hub & tyre)? No point in me going through all the trial and error if someone else has it dialled and willing to share the secret sauce recipe. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for the assistance LyNx. Glad the bike works well for you. Might end up with a Prime. Cheers.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by enuenu View Post
    Thanks. Recent investigations have revealed that getting chain line issues correct are key to ensure the chain doesn't rub on parts it's not supposed to and prevent ghost shifting and other shifting issues. You state that you finally got a fantastic chain line. That indicates that even a person with a lot more knowledge than me had to work at this issue to get it right and working reliably.
    I have recently read that 1 X 11 set ups can be prone to problems due to chain line issues. I had just assumed because they were widely used, they worked without issues. I want a bomb proof bike as I want to ride, not be back and forth on forums trying to sort issues.

    If I could impose on your time a little more, what drive train components did you use to get your dialled Prime (BB, cranks, chainring, chain, chain guide cassette, wheel, hub & tyre)? No point in me going through all the trial and error if someone else has it dialled and willing to share the secret sauce recipe. Thanks.
    I have a prime with xx1 cranks with original spider and 28 tooth ring (49mm chainline I think),142x12 dropouts, and has been working flawlessly for nearly two years, NEVER a chain drop.
    bombproof for me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    I have a prime with xx1 cranks with original spider and 28 tooth ring (49mm chainline I think),142x12 dropouts, and has been working flawlessly for nearly two years, NEVER a chain drop.
    bombproof for me.
    Thanks for that. Bombproof is what I am after as I don't have a lot of patience or time to deal with design issues.

  19. #19
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    I'm running a 1x10 with a 28T Chromag N/W chainring and a 42T OneUp cog out back and have yet to have any major issues with my chain.
    I did have some freehub problems earlier in the summer riding season which did cause me to drop the chain twice but even then it was in a crazy chundery section. Once I got the freehub issue sorted it's been running perfect.

    I was worried about dropping a chain when I went to the single ring front with no chainguide but those worries have been unfounded. Narrow wide actually does what it promises!

    As for chain line, I have no idea what it measures out to. I installed everything following the instructions and it shifts smoothly and accurately with no rubbing on anything.
    I have a SRAM X0 crankset, a 150mm rear and a SRAM X0 Type 2 RD.

  20. #20
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    There is all this talk with ideal chainline and which cranks to use.

    Get the 168mm q-factor. this is a normal mountainbike cranks.

    As for chainline, if you want your ideal chainline to be in the middle of the cassette then the 150mm dropouts are great. I for one am normally a gear or two down from the middle of my cassette and the 135/142mm dropouts work fine for me. I can use all my gears no problem.

    As for is the Prime too much of a bike for standard trail riding? Probably, but who cares. the geo is great at speed and it will save your ass when things get interesting. Also its not like a 160+mm bike that starts to have higher than ideal bb's and other longer travel bike problems (not like they are a real issue for most)
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