Should I get a spitfire, phantom related- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Should I get a spitfire, phantom related

    After numerous poor bike choices this year, I have sold off everything except for my phantom. For where I live (kansas city) and travel to (Arkansas, Colorado) the phantom is great. In fact, its the best bike I have been on. I actually just raced it in the Santa Fe BME and it cruised that terrain. I'm sure most of you are thinking "what's your point?"

    My point is, would getting a spitfire be redundant? Seems like it the 650 equivalent to the phantom. I would like more travel in a second bike....would the prime make more sense? I enjoy both wheel sizes, and I have never ridden a prime or spitfire.

    I know that there isn't a right answer to this, but the deal is... I am going to get another bike. Just looking for opinions.

    Here's a pic of my phantom mid BME
    Should I get a spitfire, phantom related-20160521_144400.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
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    If you like the short travel 29er then why get an equivalent 27.5? It'll act differently, more poppy and whippy but if I had you phantom I would go for a rune or prime for when things turn really chunky!
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  3. #3
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    Great question. I have not ridden a Spitty, however, it is commonly referred to as the 650b version of the Phantom as you say.

    What are your goals with the second bike?

    I have a Phantom with an Avy'd Fox air shock and an Avy'd Pike at 130. It punches extraordinarily above it's weight. I mean, likely weirdly so. It's an unusually capable bike.

    I say that solely because it covers a lot of ground and makes a secondary bike choice pretty difficult. I'm currently also running a Prime with a DVO Jade and DVO Diamond at 150. I don't think it's the perfect pairing. Honestly, depending on your needs, I think a burlier 160mm 650b bike is the perfect foil to the Phantom.

    I'm having the same struggle, dude. Almost wish I'd kept my MegaTrail.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  4. #4
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    Goals

    The megatrail/rune has crossed my mind. I do ride park once and awhile. The spitty seems more ridable for everday rolling midwest trails.

    I would like more travel. The phantom does eat up chunky terrain in a crazy way. Drops and rowdy terrain aren't an issue, but more travel would be a nice change at times. I have an avy float with a 140mm fork on the phantom.

    If the phantom is chocolate ice-cream, is the prime more chocolatey chocolate? A different flavor might be what I'm after.

    GG did hint at a 29er....which could mess everything up.

  5. #5
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    Last I heard from GG, it was going to be a short (120-ish) 29er. I spoke to Will via email a couple days ago, but he wouldn't give up more info.

    Having run my Phantom at 120-130-140, I definitely think 130 front is the sweet spot for me, plus it opens up doors for a bigger-travel stablemate without so much overlap.

    I feel a little bad about the Prime. I do love the bike, but I suspect I would love it much, much more if I didn't have a Phantom. The Prime climbs incredibly well for as burly as it is. Strava says I'm much faster in significant Phoenix chunk on the Prime, but I FEEL faster on the Phantom.

    If you want to stay 29, Prime might be the one. For smaller wheels, I'd still be looking for a full meal deal 160 Enduro bike. Rune if you want to stay Banshee, but that GG is an incredible bike and a great company.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  6. #6
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    Blatant, how was the megatrail? I have only pedaled one around a parking lot.

  7. #7
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    Well, to be perfectly clear, I have not been a fan of 27.5 bikes. Out of all the bikes of that wheel size I owned, the GG was far and away my favorite.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  8. #8
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    Man, the phantom just defies categorization...which justifying other bikes difficult. Thanks for the advice Blatant!

  9. #9
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    Basically the Prime is the Phantom on Steroids, like major steroids, you go down a trail, you point it wherever you feel like going and it just plows through it and feels like a Caddy in it's plushness, you try the same thing with the Phantom and you're going to have to be paying attention and you'll be getting some serious trail "feedback" from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhbrooks View Post
    If the phantom is chocolate ice-cream, is the prime more chocolatey chocolate? A different flavor might be what I'm after. .
    I think that Phantom and Prime can be an ideal couple, IF, you build them appropriately, i.e. The Prime build towards the burlier side with burlier wheels and tyres and an F36 geared towards shredding the chunk, more gravity oriented, the Phantom build towards the lighter side, but still a 34mms stanchion fork, but overall lighter components, more light Trail/Agro XC type spec.

    I have both, they are definitely two very different feeling bikes in how they tackle the terrain, but what I liked is the handling is very similar, so switching between them does not take any time getting accustomed to one or the other, just pick which better suits what you'll be riding. Right now I'm trying to figure which to pick to take on a trip to CO in September and it's a really hard decision to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  10. #10
    I fix choppers
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    The Prime will ride very similar to your Phantom, but will provide a larger margin of error and the ability to get into nastier mayhem. I have several friends who have Primes and they've ridden just about anything you could find at a park with them not to mention everyday gnar. I personally ride a Rune...on everything. This includes everything from my local trails to all of the craziest Pisgah NC nastiness to bike parks. It handles all of them with aplomb.

    The questions you (and everyone considering purchasing a bike) must answer are A. what do you want this second bike to do? Then B. what do you want to do on a bike that you are unable to do now on your current rig? There are no wrong answers.

    God luck and good speed.
    "Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the replies everyone. I think ultimately I have been wanting a second bike with more margin for error. The phantom is capable of almost anything, but having longer travel option would be a nice option. I think its more about being able to ride similar terrain with a different feel. Rune might be in my future.

  12. #12
    FM
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    Having owned both a Prime and a Spitfire, I would pick the spitfire every time for the more challenging DH trails. However I think that has to do with my height (175cm) and trails I ride. I simply find the spitfire to be much faster in corners, easier to jump & more nimble. The suspension feel (+more travel) is very noticeable on shop & chunder too.

    If you were riding more chunky gnar, maybe the bigger wheels would be better.

    I'd think more across wheel sizes, i.e. the Prime is a beefier version of the Phantom, while the Spitfire is a lighter/lower version of the Rune.

    My current stable is the Evil FOllowing + the Spifire, with pretty much identical builds. I ocassionally think about swapping the spitty for a Rune, since either way the 27.5" bike will be my choice for double-black DH stuff. But the spitfire is really capable.

  13. #13
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    So, you prime and phantom riders......are these bikes pretty similar? One just has more travel, which is the better climber? If you could change one thing on the prime, what would it be? Your one change on the phantom would be?

    Thanks for your time.

    Note:

    I am down to a couple of bike: kona process 111, transition smuggler, and maybe the phantom.

    A second choice are the yt jeffsy and maybe a prime or canfield riot. The larger travel bikes are my 2nd choice because, I am coming off of a 29er hardtail for the last three years and want something with travel, but not a full downhill bike......needs to be a good climber, and a good point it downhill and hang on bike!

    This will probably be my last bike. In my mid 50's, and budget is a concern with three kids on full sus bikes.

    Banshee seem pretty reasonable, price wise.....so will probably make a decision shopping the late summer closeouts.

  14. #14
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    Then you definitely don't want a Prime

    Seriously, the geo is almost "identical" on paper, but they ride SO completely different. I had the Prime first as part of the testing phase and it was awesome,rode it everywhere, climbed great, descended great, handled the slow tech great, but always felt a bit "too much", so when the Phantom's were announced I managed to snag a pre-production and ordered a new V2 Paradox to go with it to replace my V1 I'd sold.
    Of course I built up the Phantom first with all the parts off the Prime and rode that for a few weeks and it was like moving from a monster truck to a WRC car,could handle a lot of what the Prime could, but with more feedback and more rider input/control needed.
    Then I built up the Paradox, because I should and was interested to see what the changes from the V1 were like, I rode that for only a couple rides before I decided that the Phantom was much nicer on all the little small chattery stuff, yet gave up next to nothing when it got smooth, or climbing, especially the more tech it got and the Paradox was relegated to my bike for leading tours.

    I now have the Phantom & Prime built up and the Prime sits in the slack position built with my older Pro2/Flow w/ HR2s and weighs in at 34lbs 8oz without dropper, the Phantom has my new Pro2/Asym i29 w/Minion SS/DHR2, dropper and weighs in at 33lbs 6oz. Have not had the Prime setup in a while and so took it to a very rocky DH trail to do some testing and setup of the suspension, had ridden this trail the previous week on the Phantom and again the Prime reminded me what a monster truck it is, how much less attention you need to pay on that sort of stuff, that really it is a big bike, for big stuff if you own both a Phantom and Prime. When the $$ are there, plan to build a new wheelset for the Prime to better compliment it's nature and will prob throw on 2.5" DHFs.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerryl View Post
    A second choice are the yt jeffsy and maybe a prime or canfield riot. The larger travel bikes are my 2nd choice because, I am coming off of a 29er hardtail for the last three years and want something with travel, but not a full downhill bike......needs to be a good climber, and a good point it downhill and hang on bike!

    This will probably be my last bike. In my mid 50's, and budget is a concern with three kids on full sus bikes.

    Banshee seem pretty reasonable, price wise.....so will probably make a decision shopping the late summer closeouts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  15. #15
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    Thanks LyNx. The only reason I was considering the big travel bikes, was the entry level price of the yt jeffsy ($2,700 or so - but not available until fall?).....which got me looking at the prime, or riot. But for what I do (trails - intermediate bike park stuff, and climbing) phantom appears to be fine......

    I got word the 2016 phantom frames have been sold out in XL for a couple of months now, so I might wait for a late summer closeout on a different bike(process 111 or smuggler) or pick up a used one? Two things I like are the tire clearance on the phantom at 2.4....plus the rear axle adjustments are slick!

    Whichever bike I choose, will run a 130/140mm fork setup.

  16. #16
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    NHbrooks, i just got on a Legend after riding my rune last year. Now i am swapping my rune build kit over to a spitfire. The rune is a great bike but almost comes to an overlap with the DH capabilities of a full on DH bike. The spitfire will shave a bit of weight and give me a bit more "feedback" when trail riding.

    Anyhow this leaves me selling my MY15 Rune frame, medium, with ccDBair and headset pressed in. Im going to be taking pics and listing it soon but if you want to PM about buying it that'd be cool. (sorry to spam this)

    Whichever way you go you'll be a happy camper!

  17. #17
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Dub View Post
    (sorry to spam this)
    Sent you a PM!

  18. #18
    live long and huck
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Sent you a PM!
    And your Spitfire??? Are we getting ready to start a round of musical bike frames??? Lol.
    Low and slack.

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