Rune pivot axles wearing out- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Rune pivot axles wearing out

    I love my rune, but I am finding the pivot system is not reliable.

    I have just worn through my 2nd pivot axle (not the plastic bushing, the aluminum axle) on my rune in around 5 months of ownership. It causes heaps of play and deteriorates quick. I have been greasing the pivots etc etc. Has anyone else had trouble with this? At over $100 for replacement axles I am not very happy.

    Anyone else have similar experiences?

  2. #2
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    speak to your Banshee dealer?
    Last edited by hampstead bandit; 02-22-2011 at 05:02 AM.

  3. #3
    FM
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    2 axles in 5 months says to me that pivot wear might be the symptom of something else. Maybe your frame is out of tolerance somehow, or you have some bad bushings...Is it the main axle only? Do you have the bb hole?

    I really like the bushing system personally. If banshee is going to ti axles for bearing bikes, why not ti or harder Alu for the bushing frames? That and better grease ports would pretty much perfect it in my opinion. My bushings outlasted a headset....

    But 2 axles in 5 months is not normal...

  4. #4
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    I wore out the pivot on the lower link frame side, then the pivot on the upper link frame side.

    I dont have the hole in the BB, already checked that.

    The bolts are done up "tight", but not so tight that i shear the bolt head off (been there, done that.....).

    It doesnt appear to be misaligned, everything goes together without an issue. But the evidence suggest some large misalignments are occurring.

    I like the bushing system as well, but only if it works properly or if Banshe give me a bunch of spare axles.

    How am i supposed to go about warranty parts? I bought the bike when i was living in the UK, but now I am in Australia. I have emailed Banshee USA two times in the last two weeks but they have not responded so far.

  5. #5
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    Cave dweller, drop Keith a line (aka "Builttoride" on this forum). What you described just doesn't add up. He will be able to get your sorted. I know he's currently working on the new Prime prototype and has been traveling to Taiwan and such. He's always very prompt to reply. Banshee will stand behind you as a customer. No worries in that department. I'm sure other riders can chime in and attest to this.

  6. #6
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    I have talked with Keith about it already. He has been very helpful and quick to reply but i didnt get an exact answer as to why this has happened.

    He cant help with any warrenty claims or spares though. I know he is working on some alternate coatings to axles but it doesnt really help me keep my bike working in the short term.

    It doesnt add up to me either, the plastic bushing should wear before the aluminum axle.

    I just wanted to know if other have had the same problems and how they fixxed it, or if they just put up with changing axles every so often.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rune pivot axles wearing out-nottsnov10062a.jpg  

    Rune pivot axles wearing out-imag0090a.jpg  


  7. #7
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    aussie banshee rep is darren ,you find him on web at barspin - imports use goggle for exact website.
    team banshee is at national round this week so a reply may be slow.

  8. #8
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    As Tribesman said, BarSpin IMports is the Auzzie dealer for Banshee, contact them and I'm pretty sure they'll sort you out. Dude from there posts on here, goes by the NIC of Cooch http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=300418
    Quote Originally Posted by cave dweller
    ..................How am i supposed to go about warranty parts? I bought the bike when i was living in the UK, but now I am in Australia. I have emailed Banshee USA two times in the last two weeks but they have not responded so far.
    I'd have to concur with FMs assesment, if you're getting that sort of premature wear, something, somewhere is not aligned right. Sometimes things can slip by QC, it happens - once again check with BarSpin and see what they can do to help you figure it out and get you sorted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  9. #9
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    yeah, there should be a solution, seems to be a tolerance thing...

    my rune is in its second season with very little maintainance, i ride it at least once or twice a week all year for 3 hours or so, so it has at least 2000miles on it, and all i changed so far is the bushings in the seatstaypivots (the small ones)

    and the 2000 miles are 85% rough stuff, since i dont do that much XC-riding or similar on the rune...

  10. #10
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by davel
    Do you know if the current model Rune (2011) will be retrofitable with the new bearing system that you mention is coming for 2012? I'm looking at purchasing a Rune, but would hold off if a re-design is coming down the line.
    Perhaps Keith could chime in on the potential of bearing being used in the Rune rather than bushings.
    I think Keith addressed that here.

    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride
    nothing will happen (if anything does) with that regard before 2013 at earliest.
    Cave dwells situation is unique...The current bushing system typically works well, is super stiff, quiet, and inexpensive to maintain.. just requires regular care & feeding. No need for a "Rune placeholder"

  11. #11
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    towards what davel said - the answere will definately be no... it can't be retrofitted, since the frame construction is simply a completely different one in the matter of bearing interfaces...

    good news is, for nearly everyone, the system is perfectly working as it is, and the ones with problemes usually get sorted in the end with the best banshee support and if the part is out of tolerance, ultimately replacement.
    so no worries about the rune pivot system.

  12. #12
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    I know you mentioned you got things tightened "just right", but this pivot system is VERY sensitive to tightening specs. I used to have this problem with my first Rune (2008) and sheared a couple of pivot bolts and would wear down the axles prematurely as well. It wasn't until I only tightened to 3-5Nm max (with torque wrench) for chainstay and rocker pivot bolts and 5-6Nm to main pivot bolt. Along with keeping the axle bolt nice and lubed (Manitou Prep M) and replaced bushings as needed that I was able to remedy the problem. So far, my 2010 Rune pivots have been great with one bushing replacement at about the 5-6month interval (not until there was a bit of extra movement at the pivot). I would say go with the axle that is in the best shape, replace the bushings at that given pivot, lube the heck out of the axle before installing (just in case your grease gun isn't doing the job effectively), and only tigthen to spec, not to exceed 5Nm at all. If noticing a bit of extra movement following this then you may need a new axle bolt following or contact Keith (Banshee) for further suggestions. Just a thought and what I found to be very helpful for me in the past.
    Last edited by jgusta; 02-22-2011 at 10:09 PM.
    Ride On!

  13. #13
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    I dont suspect I have over tightened.

    But out of interest, how could over torquing in the preload direction result in wear in the vertical direction like i have shown? I cant quite see how this links up.

  14. #14
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    This guys got me worried now... i got my rune over winter and been riding her pretty hard. How often should i check my bushings? And what are the signs i should look out for when they are ready for maintenance?

    Thanks,

    DM

  15. #15
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    don't worry, you'll notice a developing play, once the bushings should be replaced...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmeat
    This guys got me worried now... i got my rune over winter and been riding her pretty hard. How often should i check my bushings? And what are the signs i should look out for when they are ready for maintenance?

    Thanks,

    DM
    dont worry. this is just one instance out of many many Runes out there. if you dont feel play in your frame youre fine. if there is play, it will likely be a pretty easy fix of just swapping the worn bushings with new. its a really simple system

    I looked into my bushings after about 5 months of hard riding. one of the flanges on one of the bushings had a little crack. i replaced it, but even then there was no play in my links at all and im sure i could have keep riding it like that for a long time

    ive greased them like 2x, and ive ridden it for 8 months now and often in nasty conditions and my bushings are holding up fine

  17. #17
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmeat
    This guys got me worried now...
    Yeah, don't sweat it. One of the great things about the bushing design is that worst case scenario, even if everything gets clapped out, replace the bushings and axles, and it should be good as new.

    On mine, the main pivot seems to wear about 3x as fast as the others.Never hurts to try the grease gun, but I think you can put off the overhaul until you hear some clicking.creaking from the pivot. Then I'd overhaul and plan on replacing at least those bushings. I think for me, doing the main pivot 2-3x a year, and the rest of the pivots annually is about right.

  18. #18
    fried not baked
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    whew...back to riding hard...

  19. #19
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    I had the same situation with the axles and pivots on my Spitfire last season after riding the bike for about six months and keeping the pivots lubricated and happy with Prep M.

    Loads of vertical play developed and the axles showed similar wear to that posted by cave dweller. Banshee sent me replacement bushings and axles under warranty and I rebuild the linkage with the new hardware. I'll pay close attention this season, probably replace bushings as soon as play starts developing and see if that prevents damage from happening to the axles.

    Also, the pivots on my Spitfire required tightening every five rides or so even with blue loctite on the threads. It is possible that that was a consequence of the extra movement due to the worn axles, so again I am curious to see what will happen this season.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmeat
    This guys got me worried now... i got my rune over winter and been riding her pretty hard. How often should i check my bushings? And what are the signs i should look out for when they are ready for maintenance?

    Thanks,

    DM
    I just replaced my main pivot bushing when I noticed some top to bottom slop or movement when holding bike by saddle and gentle dropping it or tapping the rear wheel on the ground. Feels like a worn eyelet bushing to the rear shock, but actually was due to worn main pivot bushings. I did this about 4-5 months of riding about 3x/wk in varied conditions year round. My CS and rocker pivots are still going strong with about 6-7 months on them, just add/purge old grease every month or so.
    Ride On!

  21. #21
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    in my experience it helps to pre-grease everything during the assembly process. using the injection approach after assembly doesn't seem to spread lubrication as evenly.

    second is to replace the bushings as soon as significant play develops. If you let it go too long, the axles will start to get worn out. apparently you can even by the bushings direct from IGUS inexpensively.

  22. #22
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    Cave Dweller,

    Have you replaced bushings on those pivots?

    The reason I ask, is that my rune's suspension was taking a ridiculously long time to break in and loosen up, so I removed one of the main pivot bushings that was a really tight fit and replaced it with another. The new bushing was no where near as tight, and has made an appreciable differnce to the plushness of the bike.

    Perhaps the variation in the manufacturing of the IGUS bushings can lead to too tight tolerances?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Cuz
    Cave Dweller,

    Have you replaced bushings on those pivots?
    There was no need to seeing the bike is not that old.

    Once i notice some slop i find the pivot and tear down, so far the above was what i found which requires new pivots and bushings, not just a bushing change. I dont know if the bushings are tight, they get destroyed when i remove them.

  24. #24
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    Pivot axle key fell out - or is this normal? Please help

    Sorry for the grave dig but I have a related issue that I'd be grateful for any insight on. (I didn't have enough posts to start a new thread)

    I just replaced all the lower bushings on my Spitfire tonight. I removed the main pivot axle (above the bottom bracket) and noticed the key fell out on the floor. Every other time I have removed the pivots it's never just fallen out. Is this normal?

    I'm a little bit stuck as we no longer have a Banshee distributor in Australia so not sure what to do about warranty claims if it's faulty?

    Thanks
    Kenji
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rune pivot axles wearing out-key-.jpg  

    Rune pivot axles wearing out-key-out.jpg  


  25. #25
    Shortcutting Hikabiker
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    Just glue it back or or don't run it. Mine doesn't even have keys on the axles.

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