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  1. #1
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    Phantom with offset bushings and longer shock

    I have a RS Monarch Plus 7.5x2 lying around from my previous bike, which I want to try on my Phantom.
    I have a set of offset bushings on the way, with a total of 3mm offset (2+1mm).
    With 0 compression the eye2eye will be 3.35mm (1/4" - 3mm) longer than today, and with full compression the fully compressed shock will be 3mm shorter than today.
    I've checked frame clearance which seems ok.
    If the leverage ratio can be assumed constant, the travel will be 105 x (2/1.75) = 120mm.


    Any reason not to do this?

    How will the suspension work in the 3mm/3.35mm "outside" each end of the current stroke?

  2. #2
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    Absolutely no clue, although I did query Keith on using just the longer shock and he said it wouldn't be good. If it were me personally, since you've got the shock and already ordered the bushings, I'd give it a go and get the answer for myself. You've actually got 2 problems, one being that the shock will take the kinematics outside their designed intent and two the shock may not be tuned to suit the KS link. Please report back if you try it.
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  3. #3
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    Banshee Phantom 29'' 2014 - Linkage Design

    This can give you some idea once you start to understand how to read the info. The way you are doing this is just adding a bit to each end of the travel and I don't see that you will notice much as far as a negative. If you use 30% sag as a constant you will be sitting at almost the same spot with the longer shock/ bushing combo when compared to the shorter stock shock. Thus, pedaling response should be the same as stock.

    I was just contemplating this exact possibility last week so I'm very interested in your journey. I'd be interested in a 120 rear/ 130 front Phantom...

    Please post specifics on the bushings you ordered. How does one bushing give more offset vs the other? Both bolts are 8mm so I'm not following why both aren't the same offset.

    What is the compression/ rebound tune on the stock Monarch for the new Phantom?

    Most every bike designer/ company is going to say this is a bad idea...if for no other reason than legal implications.

    Have fun!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Banshee Phantom 29'' 2014 - Linkage Design

    This can give you some idea once you start to understand how to read the info. The way you are doing this is just adding a bit to each end of the travel and I don't see that you will notice much as far as a negative. If you use 30% sag as a constant you will be sitting at almost the same spot with the longer shock/ bushing combo when compared to the shorter stock shock. Thus, pedaling response should be the same as stock.
    ^^This is what I'm thinking as well. How bad can it possibly get??
    Also, I think I have to learn some spanish..

    Please post specifics on the bushings you ordered. How does one bushing give more offset vs the other? Both bolts are 8mm so I'm not following why both aren't the same offset.
    Ordered from these guys:
    https://www.offsetbushings.com/colle...-bushings-pair

    With an 8mm bolt the max offset per bushing is 2mm, so I specified 2+1mm.

    What is the compression/ rebound tune on the stock Monarch for the new Phantom?
    Don't know, but the shock I'm gonna use is M/M

  5. #5
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    From all the reports and responses I've read from Banshee, on RS stuff, that's the tune you want. Curious if you also have the spec'd 184x44 shock and have or will try that so you can have a true appreciation for your "mod"?
    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    Don't know, but the shock I'm gonna use is M/M
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  6. #6
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    That's good to hear!

    The bike came with the DB Inline shock, so it wont be a 100% comparison.

  7. #7
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    Lol...I don't know Spanish either. I just know how to use Google Translate! Even then I have to read it slow and make sure I know what he's saying. I really like all the work that guy has done to help us compare different bikes and platforms kinematically.

  8. #8
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    Sounds doable with the offset bushings. Keep going with the modifications, and pretty soon you'll have a Prime.

    I shouldn't even mention this, but I've considered long-shocking my Prime to 150mm travel. 8.5 x 2.5 shock. I've measured it out in detail several times. Unfortunately, it involves drilling a new shock mount hole in the frame, and trimming the mount so the original hole is never usable again. XL is probably the only size with enough meat on the mount to do this. The devil is tapping me on the shoulder, but I've been wise enough not to do it....so far.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    Sounds doable with the offset bushings. Keep going with the modifications, and pretty soon you'll have a Prime
    Haha

    I was actually more keen on a Prime, but since I couldn't find one in the correct size I had to go with a Phantom.
    Can't say I regret though

  10. #10
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    Subscribing for curiosity's sake.

  11. #11
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    Bushings in da house..

    ..BUT the front bushing is 5.4 mm too narrow (2017 vs 2016 frame), so I still have to wait some more to test the setup on the trails.

    I still managed to check the shock length in a compressed and extended state, and it seems like a total offset of 4mm (I have 3 now) is well within the range of motion of the rear triangle.

    So I'll buy one more bushing with 2mm offset, to be able to run both 3mm(2+1) and 4mm(2+2) total offset.

    The waiting continues..

  12. #12
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    So...did the shock eyelet widths change from 2016 to 2017?

    What are the correct widths?

    Thanks for doing this!

  13. #13
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    Yep..

    2016:
    25.4x8 & 40x8

    2017:
    20x8 & 40x8

    It's all on the Banshee website.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    I have a RS Monarch Plus 7.5x2 lying around from my previous bike, which I want to try on my Phantom.
    I have a set of offset bushings on the way, with a total of 3mm offset (2+1mm).
    With 0 compression the eye2eye will be 3.35mm (1/4" - 3mm) longer than today, and with full compression the fully compressed shock will be 3mm shorter than today.
    I've checked frame clearance which seems ok.
    If the leverage ratio can be assumed constant, the travel will be 105 x (2/1.75) = 120mm.


    Any reason not to do this?

    How will the suspension work in the 3mm/3.35mm "outside" each end of the current stroke?
    i've used offset bushings in the past to get lower BB and steeper head angle,
    all in all, it is a cheap and effective hack but you can now get 185X50 Metric rear shocks which should fit without bushings

    ​The Ultimate Guide to 'Metric' Shock Sizing and the RockShox Super Deluxe - Mountain Bikes Feature Stories - Vital MTB

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by amrayo View Post
    i've used offset bushings in the past to get lower BB and steeper head angle,
    all in all, it is a cheap and effective hack but you can now get 185X50 Metric rear shocks which should fit without bushings

    ​The Ultimate Guide to 'Metric' Shock Sizing and the RockShox Super Deluxe - Mountain Bikes Feature Stories - Vital MTB
    The new shocks look interesting, but my idea now is to see if I can use my old shock without spending too much money.
    (Also good to have a backup shock if/when the CCDB IL dies..)

  16. #16
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    Any updates on this endeavor?

  17. #17
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    Back again with an update:

    My original estimates wrt how much offset I could use were a bit conservative, so I've ended up with 2mm on each bushing, 4mm total. This is well within the range of motion of the rear triangle.

    The two pics attached (are meant to) show the distance between seat tube and tire, and between seat stay bridge and sest tube. Both taken at full compression.
    Tire is Minion DHR2 2.4 on a 32mm inner rim, with 650b dropouts in slackest setting.
    Sorry about the 90degree error..

    I haven't done any back to back testing against the original CCDB Inline so I can't come up with a list of pros and cons, but I can say it doesn't feel totally wrong
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Phantom with offset bushings and longer shock-img_0454.jpg  

    Phantom with offset bushings and longer shock-img_0455.jpg  


  18. #18
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    Ohhhh snap...

  19. #19
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    So curious, looks like you have loads of room, why the 650B/long drop outs? Still very interested to hear how it rides.
    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    Both taken at full compression. Tire is Minion DHR2 2.4 on a 32mm inner rim, with 650b dropouts in slackest setting.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    So curious, looks like you have loads of room, why the 650B/long drop outs? Still very interested to hear how it rides.
    I'm 6'9" with a 42" inseam (with ditto high seat), so I want the rear wheel as far back as possible for not un-weighing the front wheel on climbs.

  21. #21
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    Oh, well yeah then, makes perfect sense. I'm only 6'2" with a 35.25" inseam and I'm really close to being over the rear axle, back of my saddle comes down inline with the weld from the drop outs to chain stays.


    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    I'm 6'9" with a 42" inseam (with ditto high seat), so I want the rear wheel as far back as possible for not un-weighing the front wheel on climbs.
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  22. #22
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    So, I've had some rides on the new setup, and I really like it.
    Trouble is, I also mounted new carbon wheels, new wider bar and an oval chainring more or less at the same time, so it's hard to say which upgrade contributes to what..

    Regardless - the "new" bike rocks, and now I wonder if I should get a 7.5x2 Inline or Inline Coil....

  23. #23
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    I spoke with CaneCreek and Craig from avalanche and they both discouraged trying to fit a coil on Phantom. It's optimized for progressive air shock.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    So, I've had some rides on the new setup, and I really like it.
    Trouble is, I also mounted new carbon wheels, new wider bar and an oval chainring more or less at the same time, so it's hard to say which upgrade contributes to what..

    Regardless - the "new" bike rocks, and now I wonder if I should get a 7.5x2 Inline or Inline Coil....
    I was going to go with an Inline if I had gone this route.

    Nice to hear updated feedback!

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    Quote Originally Posted by geoya View Post
    I spoke with CaneCreek and Craig from avalanche and they both discouraged trying to fit a coil on Phantom. It's optimized for progressive air shock.
    Thanks! Nice to know.

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    oh lord. Here is a post of mine from earlier in the year in the Phantom thread. An idea which is still wildly bouncing around in my head:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    Anyone wishing they had more travel? I am thinking of building a 2017 up for an XC bike to compliment my burly Spitfire (coil shock, 160mm fork, meaty rubbers, DH brakes, etc). I hate to be a numbers guy without even riding the bike, but if this bike had 115mm of travel, I'd be all over it. With the 105mm, it has me really wondering.

    I ride in western NC (Pisgah and Dupont primarily). Thoughts?


    LOL. Thanks guys...keep the updates coming. Guessing Keith will chime in at some point to tell the pesky tinkering kids to be quiet down there! Or maybe more importantly the engineering reasons to do or not to do this.

  27. #27
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    Perhaps the best question for Keith...engineering thoughts on a 185x50 metric shock on the Phantom? Basically long stroke it.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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    Any more Feedback on this topic? Curious as well...

  29. #29
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    I've got something coming I'm going to try, if it will work, nothing offset though, but definitely not stock or I think recommended

    Quote Originally Posted by rushy41 View Post
    Any more Feedback on this topic? Curious as well...
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I've got something coming I'm going to try, if it will work, nothing offset though, but definitely not stock or I think recommended
    Oooooooh. Pass the popcorn, please!

  31. #31
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    No, nothing like that Dude, just something simple, hopefully will get the parts in next week. I guess it's been just over 3 years I've had the Phantom and nothing new since besides some new wheels and PLUS stuff for my HT/Rigid, so getting a little itchy for anything new and this may or may not work and provide the scratch, we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Oooooooh. Pass the popcorn, please!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    No, nothing like that Dude, just something simple, hopefully will get the parts in next week. I guess it's been just over 3 years I've had the Phantom and nothing new since besides some new wheels and PLUS stuff for my HT/Rigid, so getting a little itchy for anything new and this may or may not work and provide the scratch, we'll see.

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    @ langen

    Still happy with the longer shock? Any more feedback?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    Perhaps the best question for Keith...engineering thoughts on a 185x50 metric shock on the Phantom? Basically long stroke it.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    the 185x50 is a Trunnion-Mount shock, so that won't work..

  35. #35
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    Actually, that's not 100% correct

    Quote Originally Posted by MalcolmX View Post
    the 185x50 is a Trunnion-Mount shock, so that won't work..
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Actually, that's not 100% correct
    Which exeption is there?

  37. #37
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    I have a project I'm working on, still not 100% sure if I'm going to go ahead with it, right now trying to source some hardware to make it work, but suffice to say, it would prove the exception
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    Any updates on these endeavors?

  39. #39
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    Well, my project was kind of put on hold for now as it involves a bit more than offset bushings and haven't found the materials I need to do the alteration necessary, but hoping to get back to it fairly soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    Any updates on these endeavors?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  40. #40
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    I've been idly considering this "problem" myself.

    What differentiates the Phantom from the Prime in terms of suspension layout? I think the rear triangle is the same, are the linkages? Is it the front triangle pivot placements? Or could it just be where the shock mounts on the down tube.

    Is never seen a technical drawing (or a prime for that matter) to check, any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    I've been idly considering this "problem" myself.

    What differentiates the Phantom from the Prime in terms of suspension layout? I think the rear triangle is the same, are the linkages? Is it the front triangle pivot placements? Or could it just be where the shock mounts on the down tube.

    Is never seen a technical drawing (or a prime for that matter) to check, any ideas?
    I was curious and had some time to kill. Looking side by side, looks like same rear triangle but a different upper link to accommodate the longer shock. Hard to to tell on lower link. FWIW, also looks like front triangles are the same dimensions, except for head tube length.

    So it's possible that a Phantom is a short-shocked Prime. Got a hunch there's more to it. Continually wonder if a Prime would be better for Enduro racing. But I place well on my "tiny" little Phantom and people are always amused to hear how little travel it has.

    For next gen, it makes sense to move the Phantom and Prime to 120 and 150ish, if only to keep with similar bikes. Or go 105, 130, 160 and have three models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    So it's possible that a Phantom is a short-shocked Prime. Got a hunch there's more to it. Continually wonder if a Prime would be better for Enduro racing. But I place well on my "tiny" little Phantom and people are always amused to hear how little travel it has.
    Nahhhhh not quite that easy. Check out the tube diameters on the bikes. Way thicker tubing on Prime. I'd sh!t a pickle if not way different geom as well, esp around the shock.

    Depending on your terrain, I have no doubts a Phantom rips in your local Enduro series. For me personally a Prime would crush compared to a Phantom but that's in chunk town with limited flow.


    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    I
    For next gen, it makes sense to move the Phantom and Prime to 120 and 150ish.....
    Ya I've been saying the same thing for a while. 135 on the Prime made loads of sense when they debuted the bike. Ground breaking at the time.


    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    So, I've had some rides on the new setup, and I really like it.
    Trouble is, I also mounted new carbon wheels, new wider bar and an oval chainring more or less at the same time, so it's hard to say which upgrade contributes to what..

    Regardless - the "new" bike rocks, and now I wonder if I should get a 7.5x2 Inline or Inline Coil....
    Langen,

    How is the "travel" upgrade working out after 8 months or so?
    _______________
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    My warranty is almost expired, so I'll fess up and say I did it as well. I swapped the stock 184x44 DBinline for a 190x50 DBinline w/ offset bushings. Running a 130 fork for both setups.

    It gives a little more skoosh over rough ground. Best thing it did was balance out the F/R travel a bit. In 105mm mode with a 130 fork, you got a little of the stapler effect like you do on long travel HTs.

    I haven't hit the back of the ST on any compressions. There is a FD cable mount that is really tight to the linkage but there is no contact.

    Its cool but not life changing.

  45. #45
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    Greenblur,
    Many thanks for that. I maybe putting a Phantom together soon. I plan to put my Fox 34 140mm on the front. I will ride it for a while but I think I will end up with the travel mod. It makes sense to me.
    _______________
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  46. #46
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    Greenblur,

    Your offset bushings:
    Brand?
    How much offset?
    Both ends or just one, if so which end?

    Thanks,
    _______________
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    https://www.offsetbushings.com/colle...-bushings-pair

    3mm offset in both sides. That gets you the 6mm you need from 184 to 190.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    My warranty is almost expired, so I'll fess up and say I did it as well. I swapped the stock 184x44 DBinline for a 190x50 DBinline w/ offset bushings. Running a 130 fork for both setups.

    It gives a little more skoosh over rough ground. Best thing it did was balance out the F/R travel a bit. In 105mm mode with a 130 fork, you got a little of the stapler effect like you do on long travel HTs.

    I haven't hit the back of the ST on any compressions. There is a FD cable mount that is really tight to the linkage but there is no contact.

    Its cool but not life changing.
    Going to try this!

  49. #49
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    Last week I replaced the stock shock (Monarch RT3) on my '14 Phantom with a 190x50 Manitou Mcleod - swap was succesfull. You have to check the clearance on your bike though. Try if a 190mm shock has enough room - some people in German forums mentionned that they had clearance issues with the FD - mount (that can be filed down easily if you are running 1x ). With offset buhings you also have to check if the seat bridge touches the seat tube when the shock is fully compressed - let all the air out and doublecheck. On my L clearance is tight (only 1 offset bush ) but no probs.
    First ride will be this weekend....

  50. #50
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    I've been following this thread for a bit and I just put a monarch 190mmx51mm on my 2015 phantom and with no offset bushings I don't hit the FD cable stop. But at full compression the top linkage hits the seat tube. For those that have tried this setup with offset bushings, which way are you installing them?

    Right now it looks like I might just need a single 1 or 2mm offset bushing to make the new shock 192x53 so this linkage doesn't hit.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

  51. #51
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    That sounds strange- fully compressed your shock should have the same length as a184x44 shock......

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    Or does the extra 1mm in the stroke length of the monarch make that difference for the linkages to hit.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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    first feedback after 2 days of riding with a 190x50 mm Manitou Mcleod shock instead of a RS Monarch RT3 184x44mm:
    - I like it, feels good
    - it's not a day and night difference, the Phantom is a bit more stable in gnarly sections
    - in my view pedal efficiency or the snappy feel of the Phantom are not compromised
    - I decided to use the new shock without offset bushings ( clearance between seatstay bridge and seatstay would be too tight otherwise for my liking)
    - geometry is fine (BB height is now 33.5 mm - installed a -1 degree angleset to keep the headangle slack
    - suprised about the performance of the Mcleod, a very good shock in my opinion

  54. #54
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    I have one of the first Phantoms (2013) in large. Has anybody tried the 190x50 trick with one of these? Did anything change between the model years that would affect things?

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    Mine is a 14 model in L - so geometry should be the same....
    But the exact position of the FD cable stop may not be exactly the same....
    But it shouldn't be a big issue....

  56. #56
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    No, you have a 2014 Phantom, as that's the first year they were available and no, no changes were made on them until the redesign with fully hydro-formed TT and new 2 position geo, which is the current model.

    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    I have one of the first Phantoms (2013) in large. Has anybody tried the 190x50 trick with one of these? Did anything change between the model years that would affect things?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  57. #57
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    My bad, memory has been shot since baby arrival.

    Thanks for the advice.


    How much extra vertical travel does this yield? Crude maths of (105/44)x50 gives 119mm but the wheel path isn't straight line vertical. Anybody calculated this properly?

  58. #58
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    Not really - around 120 mm I calculated roughly as well. I didn't want to overanalyze that thing - picked a longer shock for cheap and just did a couple of rides. I could always go back but I won't - I like it.:-)

  59. #59
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    Any updates on the ride and comparison between the 2 shock lengths?

    My DBairIL needs a service and I could get it upped to 190x50 at the same time.......

  60. #60
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    I can't help with the Inline - the McLeod in 190x50 works great and frame clearance is ok.
    I like the way it rides but I changed a couple of other things (130 mm fork instead of 120 mm, -1 degree angleset, new tires) so it's hard to say what contribute to what. I will not go back to 184x44, me personally I don't see negatives.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by neil_240 View Post
    I've been following this thread for a bit and I just put a monarch 190mmx51mm on my 2015 phantom and with no offset bushings I don't hit the FD cable stop. But at full compression the top linkage hits the seat tube. For those that have tried this setup with offset bushings, which way are you installing them?

    Right now it looks like I might just need a single 1 or 2mm offset bushing to make the new shock 192x53 so this linkage doesn't hit.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
    this right here , my brain gets boggled when I think about which way to orient the offset bushings , so which way is correct ? facing inward or outwards ?

  62. #62
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    Outwards. You need to make the eye to eye longer to jump from 184 to 190 length shock.

    Offset bushings are normally used to slacken a bike when using the correct length shock. For that, you point them inwards. It mimics a slightly compressed shock, which slackens HA, STA and lowers bb.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushy41 View Post
    I can't help with the Inline - the McLeod in 190x50 works great and frame clearance is ok.
    I like the way it rides but I changed a couple of other things (130 mm fork instead of 120 mm, -1 degree angleset, new tires) so it's hard to say what contribute to what. I will not go back to 184x44, me personally I don't see negatives.
    I also installed an angleset, so I pretty much have a 120mm Prime. I love it but I had some initial problems dialing in the fork and front tire pressures. It's so much more stable at speed it encourages you to go faster, which in turn means you're running into shit faster. I've had to go up in pressure on both fork and tires to compensate.

    I should probably jump to a Prime but I'd only be gaining 15mm of travel. A 145-150ish Prime would get my money.

  64. #64
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    After more than 2 months of riding I can honestly say that long-shocking the Phantom was a good idea - I really enjoy it. This bike has always been fast but it's even faster now - crazy fun! Destroyed a wheeset in a high alpine trail - center, shit happens!:-)

  65. #65
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    Installed McLeod today. No offset bushings,just file 1mm down from FD cable stopper. Was immpressed with McLeod while parking lot test
    Tomorrow will take phantom for proper trail ride

  66. #66
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    Nice, please report back! What tune did you go for (assuming that they come in different tunes, not exactly clear from the online shops.....)

    Ta,

    S

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    Nice, please report back! What tune did you go for (assuming that they come in different tunes, not exactly clear from the online shops.....)

    Ta,

    S
    As I find out on mtbr suspension forum, McLeod has only one tune and 2 cans. Standard and King can.
    The tune it has perfectly matches phantom's kinematics.
    Fully open IPA position gives nice bottomless coil like fill with nice progression in the end. Bike fills like my CB Riot with coil shock, but more stabile due to longer chainstays.
    First impressions- I was blown away how this shock performs compare to rs monarch, how each IPA click is changing riding characteristics...
    Need to ride more, to get a full picture.
    Later,I'll report back...

  68. #68
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    I have had the same experience the Mcleod is a really underrated shock! And escpecially for the Phantom it is perfect, with spacers you can go from 190x50 to 184x44 or something in between perfect!

  69. #69
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    Cheers! Now I just need them to come back into stock in the UK...............

  70. #70
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    What are you talking about, CRC has them in stock for the Phantom, I'm personally waiting for them to get the size for my Prime.
    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod129744

    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    Cheers! Now I just need them to come back into stock in the UK...............
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  71. #71
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    OK, thanks, they do now but didn't last night. No need to be quite such a dick about it though.

    They have been out of stock for weeks and I haven't had the restocking notification that I subscribed to.

  72. #72
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    So where exactly was I dick about it, they've been in stock since sometime last week when I was looking for one for the Prime.Maybe if you're really interested you'd do like me and others and regularly check back because you know that modern "smart" mail programs/sites will often send stuff like those notifications to spam, or junk or other such mailboxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    OK, thanks, they do now but didn't last night. No need to be quite such a dick about it though.

    They have been out of stock for weeks and I haven't had the restocking notification that I subscribed to.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    What are you talking about, CRC has them in stock for the Phantom, I'm personally waiting for them to get the size for my Prime.
    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod129744
    Be careful with CRC. They are selling '15 McLeods (look at decal graphics and rebound knob colour) 2015 mcleods may have obsolete ifp pistons.
    Cheap new mcleods are on german bike24.de now

  74. #74
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    What are you talking about,
    Not the phrasing I would use if I were helping someone. Rather rude in fact.

    And they were showing up as out of stock last night, and on Friday. As in I looked at the website. Like you patronizingly suggested.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'm personally waiting for them to get the size for my Prime.
    BTW,what can size are you planning to use on Prime? Standard or high volume king can?

  76. #76
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    I'm debating that right now, the King Can is 1/2 the price of the shock, so thinking I'll just order the regular version and see how it goes, if I find it lacking, then I might give the KC a go and see if that helps after I've exhausted all tuning options with the regular can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim0791 View Post
    BTW,what can size are you planning to use on Prime? Standard or high volume king can?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  77. #77
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    Any updates from the long shock testers? Comparisons between with and without offset bushings?

    Crc have 190x50 mcleod back in stock.......

  78. #78
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    I have only used the long shock with offset bushings. I thought it worked very well and the offset bushings kept the geometry of the bike almost the same. The extra travel was nice when hammering through rock gardens. It still has the feel of being connected to the trail like with 105mm of travel but just a little less. If you're wishing your phantom had a little bit more travel it is worth it. You will also have a back up shock or can adjust the bike based on where you are riding.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    Any updates from the long shock testers? Comparisons between with and without offset bushings?

    Crc have 190x50 mcleod back in stock.......
    So far,so good
    140mm MRP Stage/190x50 McLeod no offset bushings.
    I was so impressed how McLeod works, so I build Prime with 200x57 McLeod also.
    For shuttle days will use MRP Raze,if mcleod will start packing

  80. #80
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    Hi Vadim and Chris,

    Thanks for the replies, any head angle changes that you made to make up for the longer shock? Which rear wheel position do you use?

    Ta,

    S

  81. #81
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    I have been using the 190x50 McLeod as well - 130 mm fork, slackest setting and a
    - 1 degree works components angleset to bring BB height and headangle back in line.
    No offset bushings - but that may be different from frame to frame.
    Setup works flawlessly - can only recommend it....

  82. #82
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    Right then. Shock ordered, wish me luck!

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    Hi Vadim and Chris,

    Thanks for the replies, any head angle changes that you made to make up for the longer shock? Which rear wheel position do you use?

    Ta,

    S
    No head angle change,but thinking to go with -1 and drop fork travel from 140mm to 130mm
    Using long (27,5) dropouts in slack position.

  84. #84
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    Shock fitted. Needed 2mm offset bushing. Found that a stone had already crushed the front der cable stop so not much left to foul there...... !

    Any suggestions for base rebound settings for the mcleod before I head out?

  85. #85
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    So first ride with the mcleod.

    Did 12 back to back runs down our local DH/enduro tracks swapping between 190x50 mcleod (2mm offset) and 184x44 dbair IL (6 runs with each).

    No real difference on smooth flow stuff but in the rooty, rocky high speed stuff with braking bumps the mcleod felt more composed and smoother. The dbair got me down but I felt more rattled and tired. Strava suggests 5-15 seconds faster across the board for a ~3 min run with the mcleod.

    Bike also felt more balanced with the suspension at 120r/130f.

    Have to see how long term goes but so far I think that it is a better bike if you do choppy trails.

  86. #86
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    I'm looking to do this to my Phantom as well. Anyone running the McLeod on a Medium frame with no offset bushings?

    FYI - I am running 27.5 30mm ID rims with 2.8 tires, and plan to keep it that way but I still want to be able to run 29x2.4 as well. I don't mind cutting off the FD cable stop if I have to.

    Thanks!

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69tr6r View Post
    I'm looking to do this to my Phantom as well. Anyone running the McLeod on a Medium frame with no offset bushings?

    FYI - I am running 27.5 30mm ID rims with 2.8 tires, and plan to keep it that way but I still want to be able to run 29x2.4 as well. I don't mind cutting off the FD cable stop if I have to.

    Thanks!
    Nobody?

  88. #88
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    Not on a medium frame but my large 2014 needed the front der stop removing (or crushed by rock in my case) and 2mm of offset bushings. It is all very close to manufacturing and frame tolerances so I think that it will be specific to your frame.

    I tested it before mcleod purchase by drilling holes in some 10mm wooden battens and putting it in in place of the shock. 188mm was the longest I could get in even with my rock crushed front der stop. Shorter than that and the top linkage hit the seat tube at full compression (i.e. if the holes in the wood were less than 138mm (140mm for compressed shock minus 2mm for offset bushing)).

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by shackleton View Post
    Not on a medium frame but my large 2014 needed the front der stop removing (or crushed by rock in my case) and 2mm of offset bushings. It is all very close to manufacturing and frame tolerances so I think that it will be specific to your frame.

    I tested it before mcleod purchase by drilling holes in some 10mm wooden battens and putting it in in place of the shock. 188mm was the longest I could get in even with my rock crushed front der stop. Shorter than that and the top linkage hit the seat tube at full compression (i.e. if the holes in the wood were less than 138mm (140mm for compressed shock minus 2mm for offset bushing)).
    Thanks Shackleton. That's a great idea. I can make a shock mock-up tool. I guess it would be a length of material with 2 holes being 190mm apart and another tool with holes 140mm away from one another.

  90. #90
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    Yep, pretty much!

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