Dropouts v2 - rear axle loosens- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Dropouts v2 - rear axle loosens

    Hi All,
    Anyone experience this problem? Prime '17+, 29"

    Dropouts v2 Long - rear DT axle (with plastics lever) permanently loosens. 1-2 times per hour axle is loose.

    Axle is screwed really very tight - till lever bends.
    Using more force on the lever may break it or worse, destroy the thread and of course cause accident.

    Any ideas what could be wrong?
    What are steps to do now?

    There is no locking method in manual.
    FAQ – Banshee Bikes

    Thanks,

  2. #2
    26 for life.
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    Yep.
    Swapped it for a Maxle.
    End of problem.
    Sent from the future to destroy the past.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiJohn View Post
    Yep.
    Swapped it for a Maxle.
    Swapped exactly for what? PN?
    Mine is on photo -boost 148x12. Is this maxle or not?

  4. #4
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    Yeah I've also had to check my DT RWS on my 2018 Prime. It's now part of my pre-ride ritual check - tire pressure, shock pressure, and RWS....

    Poster above is referencing the Rockshox (brand) product named Maxle:
    https://www.sram.com/rockshox/component/maxle

  5. #5
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    Any recommendations from Banshee?

  6. #6
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    Interesting, this is not something we have encountered much, and when we have it's always been because the customer hasn't been tightening up to recommended torque from DTswiss (15Nm... pretty damn high torque).

    Worth checking the axle is functioning properly... there should be slip between the handle and the sivler toothed washer. Try a drop of oil in there to ensure that they rotate easily relative to each other.

    Also make sure axle is well greased before assembly. You could use some PTFE tape on the threads to help prevent it working loose.

    One other thing to check... make sure your hub bearings are running smoothly. If they are not then that could contribute to the axle working loose.

    It these don't work then might be worth firing an email to DTswiss to see if they can recommend anything to inspect on the axle.

    I'll do a little research of my own into this.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  7. #7
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    I had those DT RWS axles back in the day for 135/100 and they really cannot take alot of torque, certainly not 15Nm, not from my experience, not the ones with the plastic levers. There's versions which have a metal lever and those you can torque the crap out of. Best advice, just use the standard Banshee axle, been working fine for me for the last 5 years, like the extra security of the DS bolt that screws into the axle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I had those DT RWS axles back in the day for 135/100 and they really cannot take alot of torque, certainly not 15Nm, not from my experience, not the ones with the plastic levers. There's versions which have a metal lever and those you can torque the crap out of. Best advice, just use the standard Banshee axle, been working fine for me for the last 5 years, like the extra security of the DS bolt that screws into the axle.
    My Dt comes loose sometime also, do you have a link for the banshee axle?

    this does look like a good solution if it will fit?
    https://www.jensonusa.com/Rockshox-M...YaAgSyEALw_wcB

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mac View Post
    My Dt comes loose sometime also, do you have a link for the banshee axle?

    this does look like a good solution if it will fit?
    https://www.jensonusa.com/Rockshox-M...YaAgSyEALw_wcB
    That's the one I got.
    The DT was too easy to knock loose.
    Sent from the future to destroy the past.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiJohn View Post
    That's the one I got.
    The DT was too easy to knock loose.
    good to know thankyou, just might have to try that

  11. #11
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    Don't think you can buy the axle separate, usually come with the frame or if you buy a drop out kit. That Maxle should do you fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mac View Post
    My Dt comes loose sometime also, do you have a link for the banshee axle?

    this does look like a good solution if it will fit?
    https://www.jensonusa.com/Rockshox-M...YaAgSyEALw_wcB
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the answers.
    Today I inspected, cleaned and regreased my DT350.
    Everything looks and rools like new, bearings and rachet. Axle also without scratches or any marks.

    Usually I screw everything too tight by hand without a torque wrench.
    So, I checked and the axle was tighten about ~18Nm. And yes it comes loose again after about hour.

  13. #13
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    Did you check that the axle lock mechanism was turning freely relative to the handle? I'm out of ideas if it is working properly, and still coming loose when tightened to torque. At that stage I'd suggest you contact DTSwiss.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  14. #14
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    Yes everything looks like new in the axle. Toothed washer rotates without any problem and lever works as intended. I bought a new frame, it's only six months old.

    And few questions before I change the axle. I will give the last chance to DT.
    Are the v2 dropouts are still sold with a DT a plastic lever?
    Anyone know are there any other differences in plastic vs metal lever? Maybe the toothed washer is bit bigger?

    What maximum force(Nm) can tighten the axle to not destroy the thread in the hanger retained bolt or axle?
    Is the hanger retained bolt available separately? Part #1 on diagram.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by slavi View Post
    Yes everything looks like new in the axle. Toothed washer rotates without any problem and lever works as intended. I bought a new frame, it's only six months old.

    And few questions before I change the axle. I will give the last chance to DT.
    Are the v2 dropouts are still sold with a DT a plastic lever?
    Anyone know are there any other differences in plastic vs metal lever? Maybe the toothed washer is bit bigger?

    What maximum force(Nm) can tighten the axle to not destroy the thread in the hanger retained bolt or axle?
    Is the hanger retained bolt available separately? Part #1 on diagram.
    There is no difference between the plastic and alloy levered DT siwss axles apart from the lever. We only offer the plastic handles currently as until now we have not been aware of issues.

    Is there any damage to the axle thread or thread inside the retainer bolt?

    when tightened, is the steel ring of the axle biting into the dropout at all (it should be slightly)

    The retainer bolt is design to have the axle tightened up to 15Nm to match the axle.

    If you need another spare hanger they are available here...
    https://www.bansheeusa.com/collectio...t=820999782425

    If you want to switch axle, and 12mm axle with 1.75mm thread pitch and 178-180mm length should work.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  16. #16
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    Wright or wrong, I point mine facing the rear because I often bushwhack and scrub oak or sage like to get caught on the “hook” if lever is facing forward like in photo. Do most run forward in case something is flipped up and it is less likely to get Jammed between lever and disc? Lever would probably snap before it got pushed into disc. My DT stays tight but I do not think it has anything to do with orientation.
    Sometimes Rickety, not a turd

  17. #17
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    The pre 2017's came with a bolt through axle. Maybe you can find something like it.

    Dropouts v2 - rear axle loosens-img_0592.jpg

  18. #18
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    I had one of those DT skewers on a Canfield Yelli Screamy, and it too constantly came loose. Any good shop should be able to set you up with a replacement. I don't think you'll miss the lever if you just do a bolt axle, ideally with a something on the other side to keep it from loosening up.

  19. #19
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    See post #10 in this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes...s-1042342.html

    I replaced my DT skewer with a straight maxle not because the DT loosened but because it's not likely to get snagged on something. It stays tight too.
    '20 Banshee Titan 29er
    '16 Banshee Rune (sold)
    '91 Spec Allez Epic Carbon (wall art)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Don't think you can buy the axle separate, usually come with the frame or if you buy a drop out kit. That Maxle should do you fine.
    Right, the older Banshees had the bolt through Banshee axle, but 2017/2018+ ship with an RWS from the factory.

  21. #21
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    OK. The last chance was given.

    To be sure the threads was degreased and axle was tightened 22Nm . Impossible to perform this by hand with plastic lever. And that's why I was worried about the thread and availability of the hanger bolt. It seems to me that can not handle many tightening rounds.

    ... and almost two days of riding and it did not loosen.


    So it looks for me that for heavy bike setup more force on axle is needed.
    In my case 29" WTB i35, DHR2 2.4" ... and almost 100kg/220lbs rough rider


    Lever is set facing forward parallel to triangle for easy check that it does not unscrew.

  22. #22
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    Does anyone know if the older (pre 2017 ?) banshee bolt through axle is compatible with the newer dropouts? I.e. can I use the old bolt instead of the new DT Swiss axle?
    Thanks.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pembo6 View Post
    Does anyone know if the older (pre 2017 ?) banshee bolt through axle is compatible with the newer dropouts? I.e. can I use the old bolt instead of the new DT Swiss axle?
    Thanks.
    In theory yes, this should work fine as thread is the same axle standard and length is the same... however there is no chamfer at the end of the thread on the old axles, so it's touch and go if it will work. In theory it should, but out of the axles we have tested we found that about 20% of them tightened on the retainer bolt internal thread before the frame.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  24. #24
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    Thanks builttoride. Just got my new banshee spitfire frame from Banshee NZ and waiting on some dropouts. Will probably use my older rune through axle if it fits. I prefer the stealth look and really like the old axles. Just got to use a torque wrench.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiJohn View Post
    Yep.
    Swapped it for a Maxle.
    End of problem.
    Correct! Maxle FTW! End of problem!

  26. #26
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    I bought a new Spitfire at the end of November 2018, same thing, the darn thing was coming loose, so much so that after every run, at every intersection I would check it out, most of the time it would be loose. I finally ended up using some PTFE tape on the threads and it hasnt backed out since.
    Good to know about the maxle, thanks for the tip, I will be purchasing one soon.

    BTW, I am completely stoke with the frame, goodness, it handles like its on rails when cornering. Friggin love it.

  27. #27
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    I would like to ask again if 'hanger retainer bolt' is available separately? Part # 1 on diagram Also marked on attached photo.Dropouts v2 - rear axle loosens-drops1.jpg

  28. #28
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    The sales manager/half owner had e perienced the same problem as a few other Banshee owners have. Put a maxle on it and the problem is gone.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by slavi View Post
    Swapped exactly for what? PN?
    Mine is on photo -boost 148x12. Is this maxle or not?
    That’s not amaxle. Its a DT RWS. Maxle far superior to this.

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