Banshee Prime - Clyde shock choices / advice?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Banshee Prime - Clyde shock choices / advice?

    I'm looking at a new Banshee Prime.

    I'm also a Clydesdale. Pushing 265. (In my defense, I blame beer for about 15 kilos. The rest is tall parents and weight training.) Anyone else as stout as I am have shock advice?

    RE: Coil shock. I used the Cane Creek shock calculator, and figured out the spring I'd have to buy to go with their coil shocks and it seems like the answers are easy to find if it's Cane Creek. What other brands would you recommend?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    Cane Creek Double Barrell Coil Shock. Find a Renton Ti spring=golden

    Never tried one...but some very good reviews for the Avalanche coil shocks too.

  3. #3
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    Dunno what shock you have on there now but I'd see if you can send it to Avalanche or Push. Cheaper than buying an all new shock, too.

  4. #4
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    Excellent, thanks!

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    I was 250 lbs at the start of the season and was fine with the stock CCDB-CS Air shock on my 2014 Spitfire. I am running 2 air volume spacers and between 180 to 200 lbs of air, depending on where I ride.

    I also thought that I would need to go to a coil as I had always had to change out my Fox shocks for coils. The problem you will find with Coils is that its very hard to find a steel coil over 800lbs and no one makes a Ti coil in this range.

  6. #6
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    The Cane Creek coil calculator gave me a 600 pound coil for their shock, and that was when I padded my weight to account for gear. Maybe the leverage ratio for this bike is advantageous?

    I'm in Sweden, and we're about to be covered in snow (yay fatbike time!), so I have time to research this thoroughly.

  7. #7
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    Since you are a big dude, I'd suggest if you want to go coil, that you look for a shock with adjustable bottom out resistance and turn that up to ramp the shock up to avoid bottom out and work more like an air shock. While I have no doubt that a DB coil will work well for you in most situations, I think that you may end up sacrificing performance by increasing compressio damping to avoid bottoming out on big hits. The DBair can deal with this by adding volume reducers. So I'd probably recommend the air option from cane creek, or a coild shock with position sensitive damping or bottom out resistance. A custom tuned shock is a good call for optimal performance.
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  8. #8
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    I run a DBAir on my Prime. I'm 6'3" & about 235lbs sans gear these days, and have not had any serious issues (had a shock recall dealt with early on in ownership, but Cane Creek took care of it via warranty claim), therefore I would recommend DBAir also. I definitely take the Prime on rides it was intended for...and I LOVE this bike.

    Banshee Prime - Clyde shock choices / advice?-primedrop.jpg

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Since you are a big dude, I'd suggest if you want to go coil, that you look for a shock with adjustable bottom out resistance...
    This looks like you know what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    Haha, yeah, I guess you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by C.P. View Post
    I run a DBAir on my Prime. I'm 6'3" & about 235lbs sans gear these days...I definitely take the Prime on rides it was intended for...and I LOVE this bike.
    Noted, and rad picture.

    I guess from what I'm hearing, the new generation of Cane Creek shocks have enough configurability out of the box that I don't necessarily need to have a specialist replace parts of the guts? If so, this is great news, because five years ago, I used to have to take everything to PUSH to make it work well.

    I also think I'd rather have an air for adjustment - one of my 'bucket list' items for this bike is to put a set of 27.5+ tires on and bikepack. The idea is to travel light, but still, adding 10-12 kilos to the bike might be enough to make the coil work differently. If I can just put a few more PSI in the air shock/fork and call it a day I'd be even happier.

  10. #10
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    I'm running the DBaCS and I'm 6'6" and 235-45 depending on current beer consumption.
    If you've seen any of my pics in the Prime build thread you can see that I ride the bike hard.

    The DBaCS does the job. It's taken a while to get it feeling how I want it to ride.
    I had the shock in for a tune at the end of the summer at a local suspension tuner, Vorsprung, and they upped the pressure in the piggyback reservoir to help with bottom out resistance because I run a higher pressure in the main chamber than the average weight person. It has helped. I don't bottom out near as much.
    What I need to do next is get around to trying out installing volume spacers. I think that if the shock ramped up more at the end of the stroke I might be fully content in how the shock has the bike ride.

    The Cane Creek shock is sweet. It's a tinker's dream come true. However you can easily fall down the rabbit hole and never be happy with the settings because you imagine that if you adjust it a little more you'll eventually find the elusive magical carpet ride from the shock.

  11. #11
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    Curious if you've looked at their Eleven6 shock as an option? Since you've dealt with them a lot and they custom tune it for you etc, I'd think maybe something you'd consider, why not give them a call and chat?

    Quote Originally Posted by schnee View Post
    I guess from what I'm hearing, the new generation of Cane Creek shocks have enough configurability out of the box that I don't necessarily need to have a specialist replace parts of the guts? If so, this is great news, because five years ago, I used to have to take everything to PUSH to make it work well.

    I also think I'd rather have an air for adjustment - one of my 'bucket list' items for this bike is to put a set of 27.5+ tires on and bikepack. The idea is to travel light, but still, adding 10-12 kilos to the bike might be enough to make the coil work differently. If I can just put a few more PSI in the air shock/fork and call it a day I'd be even happier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  12. #12
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    Huh, missed that one. Reading up on it now. Looks pretty cool.

    My main challenge is since I'm in Yurop anything I buy through the states will incur VAT when I bring it here. If I can solve my problems with an OEM shock it'll be much, much cheaper than that Eleven6.

  13. #13
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    Can't you get their stuff and tuning through their UK affiliate company, MOJO or is it TF Tuned? Here you on the damn VAT and duties, we get drilled down here with that as well
    Quote Originally Posted by schnee View Post
    Huh, missed that one. Reading up on it now. Looks pretty cool.

    My main challenge is since I'm in Yurop anything I buy through the states will incur VAT when I bring it here. If I can solve my problems with an OEM shock it'll be much, much cheaper than that Eleven6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  14. #14
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    Keith does most of this carry over to the Rune frame? I'm considering ditching my CTD trail adjust for something else.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider76 View Post
    Keith does most of this carry over to the Rune frame? I'm considering ditching my CTD trail adjust for something else.
    Yeah, I'd say that advice here would acrry over to any frame being ridden by a heavier than average rider. The rune is a bit more progressive than the prime partially due to smaller wheels, but would still benefit from a well set up shock to match demands of rider.
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  16. #16
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    I noticed on Canecreeks site it suggests the XV can for the Rune, I actually just picked up a CCDB air with the standard can. Pretty sure it wont be a issue for me(I usually have to add volume spacers to most shocks). Any of you guys around the 250lb mark know what volume spacers are in you bikes and what can you have? I put 2 small spacers in and set it up for a base tune but I'm waiting on the mounting adapters yet so no clue how it will feel.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  17. #17
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    I am 280+ and have been punishing my Prime since Banshee released it...and it's been awesome. It came with a Fox CTD and....meh, then I got a CC DBAir Inline and love it, I feel way faster. The issue I have is getting enough air into the thing though, so I run a tiny bit more sag. I have not run into any bottoming issues at all.

  18. #18
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    I rode my Rune for the first time tonight with the CCDB. I cant believe how much better it feels over the CTD.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  19. #19
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    Rad! This is helping a lot.

    I keep looking around for other options, but I keep coming back to the Prime. Looks like it's just a matter of when.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    I am 280+ and have been punishing my Prime since Banshee released it...and it's been awesome. It came with a Fox CTD and....meh, then I got a CC DBAir Inline and love it, I feel way faster. The issue I have is getting enough air into the thing though, so I run a tiny bit more sag. I have not run into any bottoming issues at all.
    What air can are you using? Standard can would help or using some volume spacers.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    What air can are you using? Standard can would help or using some volume spacers.
    I remember being told by PUSH to run a smaller canister shock, as it's difficult if not impossible to get enough pressure in a large canister for my weight. Is that what you're getting at?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnee View Post
    I remember being told by PUSH to run a smaller canister shock, as it's difficult if not impossible to get enough pressure in a large canister for my weight. Is that what you're getting at?
    Exactly.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  23. #23
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    I have the normal sized can on my CCDB with 2 small volume spacers. It feels good and I haven't quiet bottomed it yet BUT I haven't rode park with it yet.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  24. #24
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    Crap, I just bought a Spitfire and it came with a monarch plus. I have pumped that shot a million times and I can't get it to the right sag. I wish I would have seen this thread earlier. I have no idea how to add volume spacers to a shock.

    I'm 255 with no gear.

  25. #25
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    Search youtube, bet you can find a video showing how to do it.

  26. #26
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    I'll definitely go on YouTube to look for videos. But can anyone explain it in layman's terms? I thought the advantage of the debonair was the large volume, wont volume spacers take away that feature?

  27. #27
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    Large volume canisters work great for lighter people. The low volume keeps the spring rate from ramping up as fast. For a bigger guy it usually won't ramp up fast enough causing you to run super high pressures and or wallowing feeling and blowing through your travel.

  28. #28
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    Jenson is sending me some vlome spacers at no charge. That's very cool of them. Can't say enough nice things about how great their customer service is.

    Anyone know how to find out how many spacers I should use?

  29. #29
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    And how will the extra vlome spacers affect the tune of the shock? If it's tuned for my Spitfire, will the extra spacers now make the tune inaccurate?

  30. #30
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    The volume spacers do no effect the damping at all, just the prorogression of the air spring. A smaller volume means that the pressure ramps up faster as the shock compresses, and so makes the suspension resist bottom out more. Of course this will make the suspension feel different, and so you may want to change sag slightly, and adjust damping to mae it feel exactly like you want through depth of travel.
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  31. #31
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    Ugh. I'm not a suspension expert by any means. I'm not even average at setting suspension. Changing the sag and dampening to get it to feel how I like doesn't sound fun. I don't know if I'll be able to tell what to change to get it right.

    Will this solve my problem of not being able to get the sag correct no matter how much I pump? How many spacers should I start with?

    Thanks for taking time to answer this. Getting answers from the suspension designer is awesome.

  32. #32
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    I'm afraid I have no personal experience with debonair tunes on the prime. I suggest that you could try adding as many as you have and riding it. that way you will get a really noticable feel for the effect it has on the suspension, and can fine tune the volume from the 2 extremes.

    As for sag:
    Banshee Prime - Clyde shock choices / advice?-prime-sag.jpg
    The x-axis is shock compression in mm, Y axis what sag that is equivalent to in the linkage. On the prime Id recommend somewhere in the 15-16mm of shock compression range for most riders.

    Ignore any sag measurements marked on the shock, they are wrong.
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  33. #33
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    Thanks for the info, but I have a spitfire not a prime. I was chiming in on this thread because I'm a Clyde that is also having problems with my shock and setting sag

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by richulr View Post
    Thanks for the info, but I have a spitfire not a prime. I was chiming in on this thread because I'm a Clyde that is also having problems with my shock and setting sag
    Spitfire equivalent can be found here: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CqmVkDS9BW...ire+V2+Sag.png
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  35. #35
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    I am getting more and more lost. Got the volume spacers, or bottomless rings thinking this would help. I watched a YouTube video on how to install them. It's actually really easy.

    I had no idea how many I would need so I put six of them on. I pumped up the shock to about 300 and hopped on the bike to check and see how much it helped. The shock fully compressed. Before the rings I could get it to about 40% sag. Now it's like 100% sag and bottoming out. It's now way worse.

    What am I doing wrong? How did it get worse? Maybe I am too fat and just need a coil shock, but why did it seem to have a negative effect on the shock? If I can't figure this out, I'll have to send the bike back, which sucks, because I always wanted a Spitfire.

    Any ideas out there? Thanks guys.

  36. #36
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    There is no way that the shock should be fully compressing when you sit on it when pumped up to 300psi. Have you checked that the shock was correctly reassembled and that the shock pump was properly connected?
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  37. #37
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    It should be put back together correctly. I just removed the o ring and slid the sleeve off, put the band's on, slid the sleeve back on, and put the o ring back on.

    I'll check it again tonight. I'm at work right now.

    Thanks for chiming in again on this thread, Keith.

  38. #38
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    It looks like everything is put back together properly on the shock. Everything looks tight.

    My shock pump is a few years old but I don't think it is malfunctioning. It took a ton of pumps to get it to 300 psi. Seemed about right to me. And it gets really hard to pump when I hit that number, so I assume it's putting air in there properly.

  39. #39
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    Something isn't quite adding up, 300psi should make for a pretty damn firm setup. I suggest tat maybe you try a different shock pump just to double check there isn't a false reading and that the air is going into the shcok properly.
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  40. #40
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    If as Keith said, you did not in fact tighten the pump on fully, it will do exactly as said and say that the air chamber is being filled and be damn hard to pump. It should actually be pretty easy to get the shock up to about 100 PSI, then from there it should start getting harder to pump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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