Banshee Bikes 2018 - Official Rumor Thread- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Banshee Bikes 2018 - Official Rumor Thread

    No no, it's not that I have any information, however, I'd like to start a thread for anything regarding the MY2018 models.
    The reason: I'm about to pull the trigger on a 2017 Rune and selling the 2016 one. It's because I like the new hydroforming and I think it's about time to get a new color for my favorite ride.
    But - in case there are huge changes for the 2018 model (Keith? )- I guess it'd be best to wait. So, if anyone wants to share their thoughts, you're welcome. My predictions for MY2018:

    1) Banshee introduces a super aggressive, long travel 29er (160mm rear)
    2) Banshee will not introduce carbon models for this MY, but announce something for 2019

    P.S.:
    Give me the long travel 29er!

  2. #2
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    Uhhh...weren't the 2017s just released?

  3. #3
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    Bit too soon?

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    Nah, Eurobike is in 3 months, so I'm guessing the first prototypes are almost finished.

  5. #5
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    Don´t speculate ... ride your bike!

  6. #6
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    Exactly. OP, just an FYI, Banshee are not the sort or size company to release new crap every year, their model cycle is about 3 years, can't imagine they'll be doing anything new for a few years after the hydroform/geo refresh for 2017. Thankfully they do not just blindly follow the "new" trends/standards for "trending sake", they make legit changes they feel improve their bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Uhhh...weren't the 2017s just released?
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    Different color schemes and that's it.

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    And new dropouts available for old frames also ?


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    I think we'll see just colour variations over '17 new models.
    Might be new meat on Paradox or playful 29+ front susp.

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    I loved my black ano frame. Bumped up a size and got a painted one. Like the blue paint color, its just not as durable as ano.

    If Keith is listening for color suggestions, ditch the paint. Keep the ano/gloss decal scheme and apply it to other colors. Or maybe raw w/ bead blast logos. A very durable finish fits in with the Banshee ethos.

    Plus when I had my stealthy black frame, people were constantly asking me what I was riding. Always thought that was cool.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    Keep the ano/gloss decal scheme and apply it to other colors.
    +1 !!!!

  12. #12
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    I really liked my Rune, but the bike was way too small for me

    An XL was 50mm too short. I switched to XL Mondraker ( Crafty RR+ 2016 ) with forward geometry and am very happy with it. I miss the stiffness of the Rune tho...

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    A friend of mine ordered a few days ago a YT Jeffsy 29. I'm impatient to see it and try it. He choose a carbon frame and with an unbelievable price vs equipment ratio, it comes at about 13 kg, a bit less according to YT Website. I don't know how the suspension is working, but the weight seems not to be so light in comparison with my '14 Spitfire (which is at 14,3 kg with heavy tires).
    Every time when I start to think about it, i tell myself "my bike should be lighter, it's way to heavy". And after a few time thinking about it, eventually putting one or two rides in between, I come back to reality. The weight, or lack of it, is nothing without good suspension and rigidity. Don't talk about reliability and versatility.
    Come on Banshee! Keep it the way you're doing it. Your rigs are amazing !


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  14. #14
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    My suggestion for MY18, if anyone is taking orders are to have an option for a raw frame and decal color choice. Still loving my Spitty but could always move onto a Rune.


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    Thanks for your thoughts and speculation.

    I've made the descision to stop doing model years for our frames. (buildkit components of couse will still be done by model year).

    The reason for this choice is because I feel it would be of far better benefit to our customers to release new products as and when needed or ready. Not everything will change every year, and not always at the same time of the year.

    This will benefit you all in the long run, and keep you on your toes a bit more to keep an eye out for new product and rolling changes. Just don't expect a whole new lineup this summer.
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  16. #16
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    Since the discussion has been revised, I'll add my thoughts with this past weekends DH WC results....

    I am a 29er diehard fan, have ridden them for 10 years now, they are my defacto wheel size, only other wheel size I will ride is B+ or 29+, nothing smaller. I think it's fantastic that 29ers have finally made it to WC DH and been successful, been proven this way by both tall and short riders, great to see the PB crowd choke on their 29er BS, think they are fantastic for the WC DH circuit, they are fast. That being said, for the every day DHer, I think the fun of it will still come into play and when you couple big wheels with all that travel, what challenge are the tracks then? What challenges will there be left?

    For a company the size of Banshee, I don't think going after this VERY small niche market would be a very wise move financially, cannot see much ROI, even if you could somehow do like SC and initially just design a new rear end for people to try, I just don't see the DH market, except for dedicated, hard core WC type racers, embracing them
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Thanks for your thoughts and speculation.

    I've made the descision to stop doing model years for our frames. (buildkit components of couse will still be done by model year).

    The reason for this choice is because I feel it would be of far better benefit to our customers to release new products as and when needed or ready. Not everything will change every year, and not always at the same time of the year.

    This will benefit you all in the long run, and keep you on your toes a bit more to keep an eye out for new product and rolling changes. Just don't expect a whole new lineup this summer.
    Thanks for participating in this forum. I would agree on updates as needed vs. a new year = a new product. I think Felt did this a few years ago.
    As only one consumer, I do everything possible to not be the typical retail consumer.
    I have been burned in the past spending $ and the product went through a major redesign or change.
    I have to buy current models at a significant discount or wait until changes are announced.
    Or I just like the product enough to purchase a bike in winter / spring.
    That also applies to finding good used gear, be it bikes, skis, etc. Well made/designed products can stand the test of time vs. it is a new year so.....here comes the latest and greatest.
    The $ involved with mountain bikes is too great for us average consumers to change every few years.

    Not a Banshee consumer yet, but getting closer. It is down to a prime or yt jeffsy.

    Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Just don't expect a whole new lineup this summer.
    XL Darkside with 650B specific BB Drop? Please!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Just don't expect a whole new lineup this summer.
    I know moulds are expensive but hopefully a Rune with bigger rear tire/ mud clearance! Hehehe...

  20. #20
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    I'd just like to see a 2017 compatible rear dropout set with post mounts instead of the silly hold-out IS mounts. I mean, WTF not? Stop making me use adapters.
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    is there any chance we'll ever see long travel 29er banshee (160-ish)? =)
    I think having phantom and a prime is kinda redundant, but I'd buy rune-like 29er with a coil shock in a heartbeat.

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    new darkside is my bet

  23. #23
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    Why? It ticks all boxxes their other bikes don't and it get's allot of very good feedback. Just put it on a small diet with new hydroformed tubes and the same smaller dropouts the Rune and Spitty use now. That'll be the moment to retire my 'ol Scythe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoya View Post
    is there any chance we'll ever see long travel 29er banshee (160-ish)? =)
    I think having phantom and a prime is kinda redundant, but I'd buy rune-like 29er with a coil shock in a heartbeat.
    Upping travel 15mm on both bikes - a 120mm Phantom and a 150mm Prime - would set up Banshee nicely against the competition. But Keith and Banshee have never been one to bend to market trends, so doubtful this will happen.

    I have no idea how sales of the Phantom have been, but I think 120mm would only help. Just my completely ignorant, don't really know anything, opinion, on the internet.

    Based on the suspension design, an in triangle water bottle mount seems like pretty much a no-go. IMO the Phantom would benefit the most from this effort, make it their aggro XC bike.

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    What I, and I repeat I would love is a new Spitfire with 27,5 and 29 inches wheels compatibility. As I'm asking myself if a 29er a good thing would be but don't want to change everything directly. I would be able to use my 27,5 wheels at first and then change when the budget is enough to also change the fork.


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    I think more importantly would be realistic head tubes!
    I was looking for a new Enduro bike and thought about Banshee, but I can't mount an FD because of wear from the small ring against the chainstay.
    But the most annoying thing are 115mm headtubes on the Spitty and 125mm an the Rune for an XL frame.
    Maybe they change that with a little weight reduction for 2018...
    Last edited by __U3__; 07-23-2017 at 10:11 AM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by __U3__ View Post
    I think more importantly would be realistic head tubes!
    I was looking for a new Enduro bike and thought about Banshee, but I can't mount an FR because of wear against the chainstay.
    But the most annoying thing are 115mm headtubes on the Spitty and 125mm an the Rune for an XL frame.
    Maybe they change that with a little weight reduction for 2018...
    What is an FR?

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    +1 on the headtubes, and since we're asking chainstays according to size of the bike. But this is for all other manufacturers as well, as frames grow in size all the tubes get longer except headtubes which only get marginally longer (or sometimes not even at all) and chainstayes stay the same for each size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    What is an FR?

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    Sorry, I meant FD cause I'm still riding double in the front

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoya View Post
    is there any chance we'll ever see long travel 29er banshee (160-ish)? =)
    I think having phantom and a prime is kinda redundant, but I'd buy rune-like 29er with a coil shock in a heartbeat.
    I'd like to see Banshee look into doing a long-travel 29er that could be pedaled up.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Is it blue on one side and white on the other or did you buy two of whatever that is?

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    Looks like a couple of the 2018 frames are available on the New Zealand distributor's website, but there's no geometry listed. Has anyone seen the geo chart for the 2018 Rune or Spitfire? Are there any changes?

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    There are none, changes were made for MY2017 and that's it, don't expect anything now until 2020 I'd say, as Banshee don't tend to do changes unless it's something that's needed or will greatly improve the bike, different colours would be about it. They think like a customer would - who wants to buy a new bike this year, only to have it "out dated" the next.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smashquatch View Post
    Looks like a couple of the 2018 frames are available on the New Zealand distributor's website, but there's no geometry listed. Has anyone seen the geo chart for the 2018 Rune or Spitfire? Are there any changes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    There are none, changes were made for MY2017 and that's it, don't expect anything now until 2020 I'd say, as Banshee don't tend to do changes unless it's something that's needed or will greatly improve the bike, different colours would be about it. They think like a customer would - who wants to buy a new bike this year, only to have it "out dated" the next.
    Thanks for that. Is that speculation, or do you know?
    The colours look the same.
    My 2017 Rune (which I stupidly sold) was really good, but the reach was a bit short for a large and the seat tube on the XL is too long for me to size up.
    In my opinion, longer reach, slacker head angle and steeper seat tubes would be an improvement and fit with the aggressive intent of these bikes.
    Last edited by Smashquatch; 08-05-2017 at 02:41 PM.

  34. #34
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    Heard a rumour that there might be a new Paradox coming. This would be awesome, 'cause I'm thinking about a hardtail for next year...

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    I think that someone was yanking your chain, don't foresee Banshee doing a replacement/update for the Paradox anytime soon, as in the next 2 years and if it is, me thinks it will be steel. If you've ridden a good trail HT like the Paradox and then hopped on a good steel HT of similar design, you'd know why I'm saying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Heard a rumour that there might be a new Paradox coming. This would be awesome, 'cause I'm thinking about a hardtail for next year...
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I think that someone was yanking your chain, don't foresee Banshee doing a replacement/update for the Paradox anytime soon, as in the next 2 years and if it is, me thinks it will be steel. If you've ridden a good trail HT like the Paradox and then hopped on a good steel HT of similar design, you'd know why I'm saying that.
    Since they're not doing model years anymore, it could drop at any time. But steel? Way too many players out there to be competitive. Canfield, Chromag [!], Kona, Niner, On-One [cheap and cheerful], etc. Banshee has done well with Al, and the aesthetic fits well with their other bikes. In terms of the ride, between high-end steel and quality aluminum, I prefer Al: stiff + light. I'd take carbon over steel as well, for exactly the same reason.

  37. #37
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    Steel, alu or whatever material, an updated Paradox is something presently missing in Banshee lineup....and strongly wanted I'd say.

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    Yes it is, but I find it telling that they still make and sell the AMP DJ HT, i.e. they are still selling the Amp and stock moves, whereas the Paradox was not because of how big a market it is, everyone makes an alu Trail HT these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    Steel, alu or whatever material, an updated Paradox is something presently missing in Banshee lineup....and strongly wanted I'd say.
    Not sure if you looked, but much more are doing an alu HT than are doing a steel one and if you look at the threads about active HT usage, a lot are going to steel and/or PLUS to get the ride they want.

    Not sure exactly how old you are or what injuries/nagging aches you have, but for me not far off 50, I've messed myself up a fair bit and continuous cycling has not helped, so the ride of a good steel HT makes the difference between riding a HT and not.

    Seriously, having both the Paradox and Monkey and having the same wheelset on both and same width tyres and riding them down the same trails, it was astonishing to me just how NOT compliant the Paradox is, most especially evident when I hit a nice, at speed little 1.5-2ft drop, on the Paradox it feels like you are landing on a brick, on the Monkey you just flow on down the trail, don't feel a thing. Not bagging on the Paradox, it is a great bike, does exactly what it was designed for, but being a comfortable ride was not one of the design intents.
    In riding these 2 bikes, I have not found one instance where I thought to myself, got this pencil thin stayed steel bike feels flexy and doesn't hold a line, actually the opposite if anything, the steel keeps the rear end planted on the chatter, helps absorb stuff that bucks the stiff alu frame about.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Since they're not doing model years anymore, it could drop at any time. But steel? Way too many players out there to be competitive. Canfield, Chromag [!], Kona, Niner, On-One [cheap and cheerful], etc. Banshee has done well with Al, and the aesthetic fits well with their other bikes. In terms of the ride, between high-end steel and quality aluminum, I prefer Al: stiff + light. I'd take carbon over steel as well, for exactly the same reason.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Not sure exactly how old you are or what injuries/nagging aches you have, but for me not far off 50, I've messed myself up a fair bit and continuous cycling has not helped, so the ride of a good steel HT makes the difference between riding a HT and not.

    Seriously, having both the Paradox and Monkey and having the same wheelset on both and same width tyres and riding them down the same trails, it was astonishing to me just how NOT compliant the Paradox is, most especially evident when I hit a nice, at speed little 1.5-2ft drop, on the Paradox it feels like you are landing on a brick, on the Monkey you just flow on down the trail, don't feel a thing. Not bagging on the Paradox, it is a great bike, does exactly what it was designed for, but being a comfortable ride was not one of the design intents.
    In riding these 2 bikes, I have not found one instance where I thought to myself, got this pencil thin stayed steel bike feels flexy and doesn't hold a line, actually the opposite if anything, the steel keeps the rear end planted on the chatter, helps absorb stuff that bucks the stiff alu frame about.
    We can go back and forth on this forever. It's very possible to make a stiff frame out of any material, just like you can make a flexy frame out of any material. I've owned enough gaspipe 4130 bikes to know I dislike the unfortunate combination of weight and flex that seems to plague so many companies' offerings. Based on your description of the Paradox, it sounds like exactly the type of frame I want - stiff. There's plenty of compliance [a.k.a. flex] in tires and wheels, I don't want too much of it in my frames. FTR, I am almost 50 myself.

  40. #40
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    Sniped from Facebook comment from Banshee. Related to Rune:

    "A few small imporvements for MY18, but all subtle. Probably most obvious will be the lower positioning of the stealth dropper routing to allow more clearance for connectamajigs. It's bee a care of refinement rather than redesign this year, lots of small manufacturing improvements across the board."
    Very cool in my book. That lower area below the shock will be perfect for a backountry research strap or similar with some cable work. Sweet.

  41. #41
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    ok, if no '18 my are expected on shelves we should see '17 production frames available at dealers.....but looking around everything seems sold out. quite impossible finding L PHANTOM production time out?!?!?!

  42. #42
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    I've had my Spitty up at Whistler two summers in a row and plenty of PNW riding in between. I'm waiting to see what becomes of the Rune as far as changes go so I can switch up frames.

    The biggest thing I'd like to see is a longer TT and shorter ST. The XL is a bit much as far as stand over goes and at times in tight sketch trails I'd like my saddle to be dropped a bit further.

    You'd be surprised how well the Spitty handles the bike park.


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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    ok, if no '18 my are expected on shelves we should see '17 production frames available at dealers.....but looking around everything seems sold out. quite impossible finding L PHANTOM production time out?!?!?!
    We have large/black Phantoms ready to go.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtMerchantBicycles View Post
    We have large/black Phantoms ready to go.
    OK thanks. Few days ago your site said "out of Stock"

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    New "tinted raw and red" Rune. Yowza!!!!


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    Photo from Core Bike Show in UK, don't spot any changes for 2018 other than a bit of new kit:


  47. #47
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    I’ve heard a new darkside is coming

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samos View Post
    A friend of mine ordered a few days ago a YT Jeffsy 29. I'm impatient to see it and try it. He choose a carbon frame and with an unbelievable price vs equipment ratio, it comes at about 13 kg, a bit less according to YT Website. I don't know how the suspension is working, but the weight seems not to be so light in comparison with my '14 Spitfire (which is at 14,3 kg with heavy tires).
    Every time when I start to think about it, i tell myself "my bike should be lighter, it's way to heavy". And after a few time thinking about it, eventually putting one or two rides in between, I come back to reality. The weight, or lack of it, is nothing without good suspension and rigidity. Don't talk about reliability and versatility.
    Come on Banshee! Keep it the way you're doing it. Your rigs are amazing !


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    Companies like YT are making it very easy to jump aboard carbon at an even better price than some full aluminum spec. The value is incredible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    Companies like YT are making it very easy to jump aboard carbon at an even better price than some full aluminum spec. The value is incredible.
    Yeah but you have a bunch of industry curmudgeons out there like me, who, the EXACT same bike in metal and plastic, for the exact same price, I'll reach for the metal...every.....single.....time.

    Doesn't make a ton of sense (or cents!!) for a small boutique brand to do this. Banshee sells what 2000 frames per year? It's similar to Knolly, these companies excel at making nice alloy bikes. Knolly only offers 1 of their bikes in carbon, though I bet that'll change with their new rigs dropping in 2018.

    Related to Knolly - anyone see the 157mm press release? Aren't the newest Banshee frames 142/148 only? Did they do away with the 150 drops? My question is with the current setup back there, is there enough space to make a 157-wide-flange set up? Keith?

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  50. #50
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    I'm the same, I don't want carbon anything, give me alu for FS, steel for HT/Rigid, I just don't want to have to worry about the frame when I bail on the rocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    Yeah but you have a bunch of industry curmudgeons out there like me, who, the EXACT same bike in metal and plastic, for the exact same price, I'll reach for the metal...every.....single.....time.
    Yes, nothing has changed in the rear tri's overall width AFAIk, just as you say, Banshee is a smaller company, so offering 3 different drop out axle configurations in 2 different lengths would be putting a lot of $$ out necessarily IMHO.
    Smartly Keith went straight to 150mm rear as an option when he designed the original Prime and then Phantom and the rest of the new KS Link bikes, because 142 really just doesn't cut it in terms of any improvement, but 148 certainly does, and the industry has invested heavily in it - just unless you're running big PLUS tyres, don't listen to the industry BS and run your good old normal 50/51mm cranks, absolutely no need for any wider chainline, been running my Phantom with an old M760 XT crank setup 2x for years now with a 150x12 rear and chainline is almost perfect, maybe ever so slightly skewed to the bigger cogs, which is kind of what you want.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfield
    Related to Knolly - anyone see the 157mm press release? Aren't the newest Banshee frames 142/148 only? Did they do away with the 150 drops? My question is with the current setup back there, is there enough space to make a 157-wide-flange set up? Keith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Yes, nothing has changed in the rear tri's overall width AFAIk, just as you say, Banshee is a smaller company, so offering 3 different drop out axle configurations in 2 different lengths would be putting a lot of $$ out necessarily IMHO.
    Perfect, that's what I thought. Gosh I want a new Prime.....bank account you better lock yourself down.!!!! haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'm the same, I don't want carbon anything, give me alu for FS, steel for HT/Rigid, I just don't want to have to worry about the frame when I bail on the rocks.


    Yes, nothing has changed in the rear tri's overall width AFAIk, just as you say, Banshee is a smaller company, so offering 3 different drop out axle configurations in 2 different lengths would be putting a lot of $$ out necessarily IMHO.
    Smartly Keith went straight to 150mm rear as an option when he designed the original Prime and then Phantom and the rest of the new KS Link bikes, because 142 really just doesn't cut it in terms of any improvement, but 148 certainly does, and the industry has invested heavily in it - just unless you're running big PLUS tyres, don't listen to the industry BS and run your good old normal 50/51mm cranks, absolutely no need for any wider chainline, been running my Phantom with an old M760 XT crank setup 2x for years now with a 150x12 rear and chainline is almost perfect, maybe ever so slightly skewed to the bigger cogs, which is kind of what you want.
    at least the aluminum should be cheaper then, banshee aluminum complete bikes are more expensive than YT's carbon, and carbon is obviously more labor intensive to produce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    at least the aluminum should be cheaper then, banshee aluminum complete bikes are more expensive than YT's carbon, and carbon is obviously more labor intensive to produce.
    That's a really hard comparison since a build kit includes so many variables other than frame. You can get Banshee frames all day from Dirt Merchant for $1700 with shock. Dang good price for a solid alloy frame imo. Definitely in line with competition.

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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    at least the aluminum should be cheaper then, banshee aluminum complete bikes are more expensive than YT's carbon, and carbon is obviously more labor intensive to produce.
    YT's carbon bikes are cheaper than a lot of other smaller aluminum only bike companies...not just Banshee. Keep in mind that YT is a consumer direct company.

    4k will buy you a GX level Knolly or Guerilla Gravity made from aluminum. 4k with YT gets you a carbon Jeffsy with XTR drivetrain bits, Next carbon cranks, and a TRS cassette.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    YT's carbon bikes are cheaper than a lot of other smaller aluminum only bike companies...not just Banshee. Keep in mind that YT is a consumer direct company.

    4k will buy you a GX level Knolly or Guerilla Gravity made from aluminum. 4k with YT gets you a carbon Jeffsy with XTR drivetrain bits, Next carbon cranks, and a TRS cassette.
    I agree.. YT is just killing it... incredible value and performance all around parts and frame ... it's gonna be hard to compete in the future against their business model...

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    I guess it comes down to what you want.

    Boutique handmade small batch products will always cost more than large scale production products from corporations. But some people see the value in boutique.

    I'd also argue that in fact alloy bikes are more labor intensive, and certainly more skill is required. Once a carbon mold is machined, it's essentially (in simplest form) just a case of laying down pre-cut carbon patterns in the right place and orientation then the pressure in the mold does the rest. every part of the alloy needs to be forged, extruded, hydro-formed or machined, then mitred, hand welded. heat treated, aligned, re heat treated and post machined. Carbon sounds fancy, but it's actually very basic once layup is worked out.

    With banshee you get a different level of service, support your local bike shop, get support from your local bike shop and have a product that I firmly believe performs better and is far more rare.

    Sure lots of people will buy YT, their full bikes are great value for the parts on them... so good that we can't buy the parts at OEM for the price they sell them for! (start your conspiracy theory now.. haha).

    Some people like to have something a bit different from everyone else on the trail, value performance above all else, and banshee bikes ride totally different to YT... or any other brand for that matter.
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    As someone who's actually swung a leg over their Jeffsy, I'll take my Banshee's any day of the week, was not impressed in the least. Now maybe I'm a "different sort" of person, but I don't want a bike that's only good at speed, I want something that can also handle well in the tight and techy stuff, with a front end that's easy to get off the ground when needed, not take some Herculean effort.
    No one has hoped onto any of my Banshee's and not commented on how sweet they are, how easy/nimble, how stable, one pro Alps tour guides commented after a ride about 7-8 years ago after riding my XL Paradox when he should prob have been on a L (only bike I had to loan at the time) that he just made a huge mistake as he's just bought a 26" Lynsky Ti frame, said the Paradox was night and day better than it, couldn't believe a 29er would ride like this, so fun and nimble.

    Banshee has been ahead of the curve for so long, they were the first to bring out an aggressive HT in the Paradox 9 years ago in 2009, then everyone copied it, then they brought out the Prime in 2012, first of that genera of bike and then everyone else followed. With the very forward thinking they have, I have had a trail bike that can run 135. 142 or 150 axles and enough clearance for PLUS tyres since 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    at least the aluminum should be cheaper then, banshee aluminum complete bikes are more expensive than YT's carbon, and carbon is obviously more labor intensive to produce.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'm the same, I don't want carbon anything, give me alu for FS, steel for HT/Rigid, I just don't want to have to worry about the frame when I bail on the rocks.[/I]
    I'm in that camp as well re the aluminum. I also want the bike sturdy and "overbuilt". I have a 2013 frame, and bought a 2016 frame simply because I didn't want to be SOL if my Prime was stolen (new Primes are not always available). Before buying my backup frame, I researched EVERY bike I could, and literally could not find anything else I'd prefer at any price. Admittedly I'm kind of an odd duck, but I know what I want in a bike, and I have it.

    The big tire clearance and adjustable geo are must-haves for me. I'm pretty happy with 2.6 tires right now, but if the right 2.8 comes along I'd like the option to try it. Also, I do my own work and don't want to mess with a PF BB. And as it happens, the XL size is just about spot-on for me.

    The stealth 2016 frame was so beautiful when it arrived, I didn't start swapping my old parts onto it for a week or two. Just put it in the stand, and walked out in the garage every night and admired it LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Is it blue on one side and white on the other or did you buy two of whatever that is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    As someone who's actually swung a leg over their Jeffsy, I'll take my Banshee's any day of the week, was not impressed in the least. Now maybe I'm a "different sort" of person, but I don't want a bike that's only good at speed, I want something that can also handle well in the tight and techy stuff, with a front end that's easy to get off the ground when needed, not take some Herculean effort.
    No one has hoped onto any of my Banshee's and not commented on how sweet they are, how easy/nimble, how stable, one pro Alps tour guides commented after a ride about 7-8 years ago after riding my XL Paradox when he should prob have been on a L (only bike I had to loan at the time) that he just made a huge mistake as he's just bought a 26" Lynsky Ti frame, said the Paradox was night and day better than it, couldn't believe a 29er would ride like this, so fun and nimble.

    Banshee has been ahead of the curve for so long, they were the first to bring out an aggressive HT in the Paradox 9 years ago in 2009, then everyone copied it, then they brought out the Prime in 2012, first of that genera of bike and then everyone else followed. With the very forward thinking they have, I have had a trail bike that can run 135. 142 or 150 axles and enough clearance for PLUS tyres since 2012.
    I don't doubt this may be true for you, but pretty much every major publication has found the YT bikes to have better performance than the Banshee - and they are cheaper and carbon - hard to beat the reality though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I'm in that camp as well re the aluminum. I also want the bike sturdy and "overbuilt". I have a 2013 frame, and bought a 2016 frame simply because I didn't want to be SOL if my Prime was stolen (new Primes are not always available). Before buying my backup frame, I researched EVERY bike I could, and literally could not find anything else I'd prefer at any price. Admittedly I'm kind of an odd duck, but I know what I want in a bike, and I have it.

    The big tire clearance and adjustable geo are must-haves for me. I'm pretty happy with 2.6 tires right now, but if the right 2.8 comes along I'd like the option to try it. Also, I do my own work and don't want to mess with a PF BB. And as it happens, the XL size is just about spot-on for me.

    The stealth 2016 frame was so beautiful when it arrived, I didn't start swapping my old parts onto it for a week or two. Just put it in the stand, and walked out in the garage every night and admired it LOL.
    There are advantages to aluminum, but certainly wouldn't pay more, the benefits of carbon outweigh at that point, that's pretty much why every manufacturer has moved over to carbon except the ones who couldnt afford to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    I don't doubt this may be true for you, but pretty much every major publication has found the YT bikes to have better performance than the Banshee - and they are cheaper and carbon - hard to beat the reality though.
    Were they German?

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    ... and had full paged show ads/advertising in Magazines or online?

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    Let that tickle you if you wish, but I've seen more cracked/broken carbon than alu, so I'll stick to alu thanks very much, gives me good piece of mind to know I can bail on our rocks without worry of maybe scratching a stanchion tube or busting a derailleur, but the frame will be just fine.
    Can't argue the $$, but then if you sell direct from the factory to your customers with no physical shop, that's possible, having a dealer network and physical shops to help customers comes at some expense. As said though, I'll take the handling characteristics of a Banshee over a YT any day of the year, as for those who have bought them and are happy, maybe, just maybe they are so happy more so because of the parts spec for $$ and the fact they own it over actually being really happy - just a thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    I don't doubt this may be true for you, but pretty much every major publication has found the YT bikes to have better performance than the Banshee - and they are cheaper https://www.amazon.com/Speed-Cassett.../dp/B0721MJDT1 - hard to beat the reality though.
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    Pretty much any mainstream mtb publication will agree that YT is a better value and product compare to Banshee. Not saying there isnt a market for aluminum bikes that are higher priced than carbon, its just thats a very small market and shrinking rapidly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    Pretty much any mainstream mtb publication will agree that YT is a better value and product compare to Banshee. Not saying there isnt a market for aluminum bikes that are higher priced than carbon, its just thats a very small market and shrinking rapidly.
    Source of the tests?

    I came across a German magazine (surprise surprise) that tested a 29 Jeffsey to a Spitfire. They were upset that the Spitfire was two pounds heavier couldn't wheelie as good as the Jeffsey. They said that the Spitfire didn't do well unless it went fast (well duh). Every YT they tested was a "test winner".

    I got my Banshee because of the positive reviews I've read.

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    Well the YT generally has much better reviews and recognition worldwide from the mtb media than Banshee. No doubt Banshee is a good frame, but looks wise the YT design, graphics, weight advantage, and overall company vibe makes YT a lot more sophisticated and professional. Combine with the price advantage of YT, and Banshee being mostly an online retailer brand, and I dont see how Banshee stays competitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    Well the YT generally has much better reviews and recognition worldwide from the mtb media than Banshee. No doubt Banshee is a good frame, but looks wise the YT design, graphics, weight advantage, and overall company vibe makes YT a lot more sophisticated and professional. Combine with the price advantage of YT, and Banshee being mostly an online retailer brand, and I dont see how Banshee stays competitive.
    YT vs Banshee? YT used a pressfit BB, no no thanks. Looks wise, banshee frames look nicer with better graphics. They also have a few dropout options, they actually have reasonable sizes, YT's XL is small. And the bonus is I can directly ask and receive information and setup help directly from banshee on here.

    So YT sell frames only yet?

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    I think your in the vast minority.. most riders prefer the look and weight savings of carbon over aluminum. If carbon is cheaper than aluminum its really tough to sell the aluminum, ask any shop owner, its just the way things are. Carbon is sexier and lighter, lighter has always been a big plus people value in the high end bike industry. Geometry is personal preference but i wouldnt say Banshees geometry is anything that much different than the crop of current full suspension bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    I think your in the vast minority.. most riders prefer the look and weight savings of carbon over aluminum. If carbon is cheaper than aluminum its really tough to sell the aluminum, ask any shop owner, its just the way things are. Carbon is sexier and lighter, lighter has always been a big plus people value in the high end bike industry. Geometry is personal preference but i wouldnt say Banshees geometry is anything that much different than the crop of current full suspension bikes.
    Realistically you are only saving about 1lb with a carbon frame. My Spitfire weighs in at 30.5lbs. I also have an aluminum Stumpjumper 6Fattie...and with the addition of some carbon wheels...dipped just under 30lbs. You look at the Evil Calling and Pivot Mach 5.5. Both aggressive riding trail bikes. They are hovering the 30lb mark and 28lb for the big buck builds.

    Why are shops carrying carbon bikes? Its what they want to sell you. Like Keith said...it actually take more skill to weld up an aluminum frame compared to laying up pre cut carbon sheets into a mold. After getting past the extremely expensive carbon molds...its probably easier to mass produce carbon frames than it is for aluminum.

    Anybody that's ridden different bikes will tell you that the frame geo is more important than what the frame is made of...and Banshee's geo is pretty spot on for shredding.

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    Thats a good rationalization but the truth is Keith and Banshee would jump at the chance of making a carbon frame but theyve been honest about the fact that they cant afford it. If they had the financial backing of a YT, Yeti, Pivot, they would have jumped on carbon years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    Thats a good rationalization but the truth is Keith and Banshee would jump at the chance of making a carbon frame but theyve been honest about the fact that they cant afford it. If they had the financial backing of a YT, Yeti, Pivot, they would have jumped on carbon years ago.
    Thanks for making that assumption! haha

    We have looked into it with multiple factories over the years, and we could have easily afforded to do it the cheap ways (buying an off the shelf frame, or using cheap construction methods) as numerous brands do. But we always said that if we ever do a carbon bike, we do it right and make it as good as it can possibly be, by using best materials and technology (some of which is not yet available in the bike world) to make highest performing frame possible... which costs. And yes, for us upfront cost is a factor for sure, as is environmental argument. But scale of production is biggest financial issue for us as minimum order quantities from most factories are significantly more than the batches of 50 we currently produce, and if you go to a smaller carbon factory, the price goes up... and so sell price to customer goes up, so we certainly would not be competing with the likes of YT then, as we want to continue to sell through dealers, as they offer an valuable service to our customers.

    So we have opted to continue doing what we do best, and what our loyal customers demand and work to sell great bikes for a fair price through a dealer network. (FYI, there is nowhere in the world that we sell customer direct). We are just 4 guys working hard to try and make our bikes as good as they can possibly be.

    Honestly I'm not sure why anyone is comparing us to YT, that's apples and oranges.
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    The point is Banshee doesnt have the financial capability or sales volume to produce a carbon bike using the same methods as YT, Yeti, Pivot etc. Thats why Im saying when you factor in the fact that YT is even cheaper now than Banshee, and Banshee being an online sales company at least in the US, doesnt really offer much value in terms of performance, value, weight, and technology compared to the competition. At one point when the competitive advantages are all owned by your competitor, price, performance (carbon), similar distribution (online), you have to change things up and figure out how to give your customers better value for their hard earned dollars.

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    Yeah seriously why are we talking about yt? Have we been trolled guys?? I ain't buying a carbon frame based on what I've seen and ridden. Much less from a website and not a shop where I can get support when it breaks. Nor am I paying $3500 for frame only (Yeti). Norrrr am I buying a Pivot 5.5 for $6k when it's effectively a plastic Spitfire. Move on.


    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I'm in that camp as well re the aluminum. I also want the bike sturdy and "overbuilt". I have a 2013 frame, and bought a 2016 frame simply because I didn't want to be SOL if my Prime was stolen (new Primes are not always available). Before buying my backup frame, I researched EVERY bike I could, and literally could not find anything else I'd prefer at any price. Admittedly I'm kind of an odd duck, but I know what I want in a bike, and I have it.

    The big tire clearance and adjustable geo are must-haves for me. I'm pretty happy with 2.6 tires right now, but if the right 2.8 comes along I'd like the option to try it. Also, I do my own work and don't want to mess with a PF BB. And as it happens, the XL size is just about spot-on for me.

    The stealth 2016 frame was so beautiful when it arrived, I didn't start swapping my old parts onto it for a week or two. Just put it in the stand, and walked out in the garage every night and admired it LOL.

    JACKL I totally know what you mean. When it works, it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    The point is Banshee doesnt have the financial capability or sales volume to produce a carbon bike using the same methods as YT, Yeti, Pivot etc. Thats why Im saying when you factor in the fact that YT is even cheaper now than Banshee, and Banshee being an online sales company at least in the US, doesnt really offer much value in terms of performance, value, weight, and technology compared to the competition. At one point when the competitive advantages are all owned by your competitor, price, performance (carbon), similar distribution (online), you have to change things up and figure out how to give your customers better value for their hard earned dollars.
    Actually all our dealers in USA have brick and mortar shops. Yes some may sell online as well as in store, but they all offer customer support far superior to what is offered by any customer direct brands.

    I'm not really sure what it is you are trying to achieve here? If you are trying to reinforce that Banshee is a small boutique brand, run by a few dedicated riders, who offer product that has developed brand loyalty for many of those who have ridden it, and a more personal service than the big brands, then I think you have achieved. Thanks!
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    Most of your dealers in the US are blowing out your product online like JensonUSA, its just a ruse. They have a brick and mortar location but there business is 99.9 percent online. This is a trick most online dealers use to make you think they are supporting the LBS when in actuality they are doing just the opposite.

    Im just being honest that Banshee cannot continue selling aluminum bikes at prices higher than premium carbon brands without customer disappointment. Almost all bike brands are staffed by riders, offer great service, and are now leading the value game as well. Times are changing indeed.

  76. #76
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    You know what's really disappointing?
    • When your carbon frame fails after 6 months (but the bought-used banshee is still rolling)
    • When your brick & morter LBS sponsors a road racing team, but doesn't do trailwork or fund your local trails advocacy groups
    • When the big-box brand carried by your LBS sponsors a demo day at the local secret trails, and the property owners complain

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    Most of your dealers in the US are blowing out your product online like JensonUSA, its just a ruse. They have a brick and mortar location but there business is 99.9 percent online. This is a trick most online dealers use to make you think they are supporting the LBS when in actuality they are doing just the opposite.

    Im just being honest that Banshee cannot continue selling aluminum bikes at prices higher than premium carbon brands without customer disappointment. Almost all bike brands are staffed by riders, offer great service, and are now leading the value game as well. Times are changing indeed.
    You might as well go troll the Guerrilla Gravity, Canfield, and Knolly forums too. They're also continuing to sell aluminum bikes higher than your "premium" carbon brands.

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    There are people willing to pay a premium for an American made product. As for premium for Taiwanese aluminum frames over carbon, Im afraid thats going way of dinosaur. Thats why Knolly was skewered on pinkbike for promoting their 157trail as marketing gibberish devoid of any value added for our hard earned money.

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    True

    There is a place for products like Banshee but the price needs to come down a lot given what other companies have achieved with more expensive components and materials.

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    So which particular Banshee model are you comparing that they price is too high? Their frame prices are pretty much under $2k with a shock. I mean you can't even buy a YT frame. If you look at Taiwan and China made frames from American companies like Pivot 5.5 ($3k) and any Evil ($2800). An S-works Enduro frame alone is $3500. The Trek Slash 29 is $3600...which they have on sale now of $2400.

    Plus they have the modular dropouts that let me run any hub from 135 all the way to 150...including Boost.

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    Complete YT carbon bikes msrp is cheaper than complete Banshee aluminum bikes, and YT offers better spec too.

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    Also Banshee doesnt have a carbon frame yet so its apples and oranges comparing to Evil and Pivot. Also Yeti Pivot those brands have real LBS bases, not mostly online retailers blowing stuff out, but stocking dealers all across the country.

    But just for an example of how overpriced a banshee is, the MSRP of a GX level aluminum Spitfire in 2017 was over $5,000.00. A XT level YT full carbon bike was in the mid to high $3,000s. Its not even close, Banshee needs to step up and provide some value to the customer base or the riders will wisen up very fast. Nobody likes overpaying.

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    Ok man...you win.

    Its Friday 80 degrees out and I'm gonna go ride my bike.

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    Sorry dont mean to be rude.. I just want everyone to get fair pricing for our money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Ok man...you win.

    Its Friday 80 degrees out and I'm gonna go ride my bike.
    Yaaaas! Right attitude. Ride an extra few miles on your subpar Banshee (LOL) for us east coasters who are struggling to get over freezing this weekend! Hooah!

    Veggie move on bruh you're reaching rude troll status. Let us waste our money if that's how ya see it. Different strokes for different folks.

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    Not trying to be rude, just tired of industry marketing BS. Looking out for fellow riders, we all want better value right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    Also Banshee doesnt have a carbon frame yet so its apples and oranges comparing to Evil and Pivot. Also Yeti Pivot those brands have real LBS bases, not mostly online retailers blowing stuff out, but stocking dealers all across the country.

    But just for an example of how overpriced a banshee is, the MSRP of a GX level aluminum Spitfire in 2017 was over $5,000.00. A XT level YT full carbon bike was in the mid to high $3,000s. Its not even close, Banshee needs to step up and provide some value to the customer base or the riders will wisen up very fast. Nobody likes overpaying.
    That build you are referring to is a Jenson in house built build they buy the frames from us and then put their own builds together that they feel best represents what their cstomers are looking for and set their own complete MRSP. Our completes that we sell through all our other small American dealers are competitively priced. You need to do some more homework. Ultimately it's the price that a customer can buy a bike for that is the cost of the bike, and out bikes represent good value for money.

    Also to help dealers out, and dealer in north America can buy a frame from us without having to hold stock. We are doing all the warehousing for them so they have zero risk. It's hard for a good local bike shop to invest $xx thousand in a brand at the start of the year. So we are trying to help them in this regard. I honestly fear for the future of this sport if we end up left without local bike shops.

    With Banshee you get what you pay for... I'm assuming you've never owned a banshee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    That build you are referring to is a Jenson in house built build they buy the frames from us and then put their own builds together that they feel best represents what their cstomers are looking for and set their own complete MRSP. Our completes that we sell through all our other small American dealers are competitively priced. You need to do some more homework. Ultimately it's the price that a customer can buy a bike for that is the cost of the bike, and out bikes represent good value for money.

    Also to help dealers out, and dealer in north America can buy a frame from us without having to hold stock. We are doing all the warehousing for them so they have zero risk. It's hard for a good local bike shop to invest $xx thousand in a brand at the start of the year. So we are trying to help them in this regard. I honestly fear for the future of this sport if we end up left without local bike shops.

    With Banshee you get what you pay for... I'm assuming you've never owned a banshee.
    So you allow your dealers to mark up MSRP to those levels? Arent they authorized resellers? And isnt that MSRP? That's a little bit misleading if Jenson is claiming its a manufacturer suggested pricing and now you are not endorsing that pricing.

    Why not just post the prices on your site so customers can see and compare? If your pricing is competitive you should do that for transparency. You said before you couldnt even buy parts at OEM what other builders are selling at. Now you are playing smoke and mirrors with pricing. Quite frankly I dont think you are being honest with the fact that your products are overpriced for what the market is at.

    Why not just let us know upfront the pricing for similar builds to YT if you are saying its competitive.

    Also I think its a bit misguided to claim support for LBS when your most visible dealers in the USA are the largest LBS killers, like JensonUSA and other online retailers. All your doing with your warehouse is making customers pay higher prices for what will be mostly online deliveries.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    So you allow your dealers to mark up MSRP to those levels? Arent they authorized resellers? And isnt that MSRP? That's a little bit misleading if Jenson is claiming its a manufacturer suggested pricing and now you are not endorsing that pricing.

    Why not just post the prices on your site so customers can see and compare? If your pricing is competitive you should do that for transparency. You said before you couldnt even buy parts at OEM what other builders are selling at. Now you are playing smoke and mirrors with pricing. Quite frankly I dont think you are being honest with the fact that your products are overpriced for what the market is at.

    Why not just let us know upfront the pricing for similar builds to YT if you are saying its competitive.

    Also I think its a bit misguided to claim support for LBS when your most visible dealers in the USA are the largest LBS killers, like JensonUSA and other online retailers. All your doing with your warehouse is making customers pay higher prices for what will be mostly online deliveries.
    We set MRSP for product that we supply and dealers have to list that MRSP. Jenson adhere to this rule too, as they put together all the builds from products that they hold in stock. so stated MRSP on completes the list is based on total for MSRP of all separate parts in the build. So they are following MRSP for all suppliers.

    We offer a wide range of build options. If we posted all MRSP's for completes and frame and shock packages, we would have to list hundreds of prices to cover all variations. For example you can pick multiple wheel sets, multiple fork options, separate drive-train kits etc. We like to give our customers the chance to build the bike they want it built rather than telling them what it comes will... another way we like to separate ourselves from the competition that dictate to their customers the build specs.

    Riders can go into any banshee dealer (or any local dealer who is interested in opening a banshee account) to get a custom build price... with all prices outlined from the start.

    I think you'll find that the largest dealers are always the most visible. Just go to our dealer map to see official dealers that we currently work with. This network is growing, and any dealer can become part of it with no buy in required.

    Our warehouse enables ocean shipments to USA which results in massively cheaper shipping than airing from Taiwan for every sale, avoids import duties to dealer, and fast shipping. So it's cheaper and faster than going factory direct. Win win.
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    Thank you for your response its much appreciated. However Im just not buying why you cant be more transparent with pricing. Just post the price of the frame with the most popular shock and 3 build kit options. Thats very common and there is really no good reason you cant do that as you can still offer custom qoutes.

    If Jenson is pricing out your builds at MSRP you should stand by them if they are an authorized dealer, but the pricing shows a much higher price than better specd carbon bikes which is a really tough pill to swallow for the many loyal customers.

    I hope you can bring the prices of your frames and bikes to more competitive rates like YT, or I simply wont be able to consider the brand like many others. Your frames would be good at around $1000 and $2000s for completes based on what other manufacturers are achieving. Its just more efficiently operating the business and living with less margin to take care of your customers.

  91. #91
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    Veggibiker, who nominated you as the arbiter of what constitutes good value for all of us?
    Last edited by FM; 02-03-2018 at 05:27 PM.

  92. #92
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    I ride a Banshee because I want to ride a Banshee.
    I've never added up what the build cost, it was a 6 month work in progress, but now it's dialled & a killer ride.
    Sent from the future to destroy the past.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    .....I don't doubt this may be true for you, but pretty much every major publication has found the YT bikes to have better performance than the Banshee - and they are cheaper and carbon - hard to beat the reality though......
    ..Would you share these comparative tests on major publications ????

    ....I'll read 'em after a solid ride on my expensive custom build 5 year old grin maker Prime, and re thinking my mates 7500 € Carbine and 3500 € Jeffsy cracked swingarm and top tube.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Veggibiker, who nominated you as the arbiter of what constitutes good value for all of us?
    Just pointing out facts with numbers, nothing personal. If your happy no need to prevent others from expressing their concerns.

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    Like I said, nothing against aluminum, just dont think its good business to be charging more for it than better specd carbon.

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    Every frame cracks ... ive seen plenty of problems with Banshee too like loose and worn pivot shafts in earlier models... but carbon is still believed to be a superior material to aluminum by virtually every bike maker in the world except the ones that cant afford to develop a proper carbon frame. This alone, comparing high end carbon to alum is already apples and oranges with the carbon winning out all other things being equal. I think this is obvious to most in the industry and nearly every high end manufacturer like Ibis, Pivot, Yeti, SC, Canyon, etc.. not exactly controversial points here.

  97. #97
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    He's still going...
    Sent from the future to destroy the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    The point is Banshee doesnt have the financial capability or sales volume to produce a carbon bike using the same methods as YT, Yeti, Pivot etc. Thats why Im saying when you factor in the fact that YT is even cheaper now than Banshee, and Banshee being an online sales company at least in the US, doesnt really offer much value in terms of performance, value, weight, and technology compared to the competition. At one point when the competitive advantages are all owned by your competitor, price, performance (carbon), similar distribution (online), you have to change things up and figure out how to give your customers better value for their hard earned dollars.
    Veggibiker. I am not a very good fisherman, but there is a lot of chum in the water.

    Public discourse. Great.

    I have been looking for a bike for about 12 months - my requirements, alloy, 29er, min rear travel 135, max 140/145, cost, geo, and spec! In no particular order my short list: Instinct, Prime, Smash, Jeffsy (outliers - Snabb 150 plus, Process 153 - 29, a few others).

    For me, it comes down to price, spec, and geo....most of these current mid travel 29ers would work. My skill set most likely lags for what these bikes will do. Long story short, I can't and will not drop $3k plus every 3-4 years for a new bike (guess I agree somewhat with your thoughts). My current ride, process 111, is super fun.....if I can find a bit more rear suspension at a good value, I will buy it.

    Banshee will live, die, or change as the owners see fit. It is their business to succeed or fail. If the XL Jeffsy had just a bit longer top tube (6'3" and not a fan of long stems) and a treaded bottom bracket, I would be riding it.

    So, the Prime is still in the running.....if my local bike shop can cut me a good deal and still feel good about a discounted sale....I may be riding a prime in the future.

    From a pure value ($) point of view, Banshee is probably not the cheapest, but haven't seen pricing on their build kits or options.

    But the Jeffsy is not an ideal bike for me unless it is too good of a deal to pass up given its compromises....and right now, it does not work!

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiJohn View Post
    He's still going...
    I PM'd him yesterday, no reply.

    He kept it up... Banned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggibiker View Post
    Not trying to be rude, just tired of industry marketing BS. Looking out for fellow riders, we all want better value right?
    I found this an interesting comment, but not one that's in the same reality as the rest of us. 'Industry marketing bullshit', modular dropouts are the antithesis of industry bullshit. Being able to update you frame to the latest standard, or use a older 'substandard' is an amazingly attractive attribute of a banshee frame.

    If only banshee made something in 28.99, we'd be on the cutting edge of progression.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill=sad View Post

    If only banshee made something in 28.99, we'd be on the cutting edge of progression.
    Haha, this made me chuckle!
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    The new "burnished black" models from Jenson look so sick.



    I mean...not to say these aren't equally rad...can't wait for in the flesh photos.

    Last edited by Lithified; 02-05-2018 at 02:57 PM.

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    To Veggibiker,

    if you wanna talk about YT, please go to YT forum and talk about it. why need to compare the bike? Don't be an asshole and ride happy.

    Thanks!
    banshee and santa cruz rider.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    The new "burnished black" models from Jenson look so sick.

    Is this a Jenson specific Frame-Color-Sheme? Looks great!

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Is this a Jenson specific Frame-Color-Sheme? Looks great!
    This is a Jenson specific graphic colour. We offer this raw tint finish, but with different decal colours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    This is a Jenson specific graphic colour. We offer this raw tint finish, but with different decal colours.
    I've seen the raw+red on Prime and Rune (on instagram i think), but what graphic colors are you doing on the new Spitfire/Phantom?

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    This is a Jenson specific graphic colour. We offer this raw tint finish, but with different decal colours.
    Thank you Keith! Unfortunately Jenson-Only - would love to get a new Spitfire through everyday26 that way ...

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    Does anyone know when we can expect the next significant model change? I' m guessing it would be 2019 or 2020?

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    What do you find is missing from the current lineup of bikes? They've all recently moved to 148x12, and some small geo tweaks, so can't imagine what they'd be changing anytime soon. As I was discussing my 2012 Prime with someone today and pointing out the geo compared to today's bike, it was quite funny to see how far head of the curve Banshee was with geo.

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrytiger View Post
    Does anyone know when we can expect the next significant model change? I' m guessing it would be 2019 or 2020?
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    I'm happy with my 2014. Spitfire. Just asking the question so I can plan ahead for potential replacement

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    ...it was quite funny to see how far head of the curve Banshee was with geo.
    That's true for that era of Banshee bikes. They were ahead of the curve. I'm interested to see how this new long reach, short stays, and potentially short offset/slack (e.g. Transition SBG) stuff goes. Because if that stuff is here to stay, then Banshee is presently behind the curve. 445mm stays on the Prime? Large reach of 450-455mm on the bikes? 66.5-67° HTA on Prime? All of these things were ground breaking when introduced, but everyone seems to have caught up, right? Hmmmm.

    I'm still interested in a Prime for my next frame but given the state of the industry right now, I'd wait to see what Keith cooks up in the next batch.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    That's true for that era of Banshee bikes. They were ahead of the curve. I'm interested to see how this new long reach, short stays, and potentially short offset/slack (e.g. Transition SBG) stuff goes. Because if that stuff is here to stay, then Banshee is presently behind the curve. 445mm stays on the Prime? Large reach of 450-455mm on the bikes? 66.5-67° HTA on Prime? All of these things were ground breaking when introduced, but everyone seems to have caught up, right? Hmmmm.

    I'm still interested in a Prime for my next frame but given the state of the industry right now, I'd wait to see what Keith cooks up in the next batch.
    All I'm going to say about this, is that latest hype doesn't always equate to a better ride. It's interesting to talk to people who have spent time on the 'new breed' of long slack bikes... some people definitely love them (normally the best riders (racers) who rank speed as most important factor). However most averagish riders, of which I would classify myself one, will often struggle in certain situations when things are too long and slack.

    To ride long slack bikes you need to attack all the time to get the most of them, so get weight really far over the handlebars to weight your front wheel... even when going down really steep stuff. For most people this does not inspire confidence. Plus as you gain stability at speed, you generally also loose playfulness, so you need to consider what is important to you personally.

    This statement is not to say I'm ignoring the recent push towards long and slack by any means. There can be benefits, and new offset forks do help weight the front wheel... but there is a sweet spot for weight distribution. Oh and chain stay length is part of this equation. The shorter the chainstay, the harder it is to weight a front wheel as more weight will naturally be on your back wheel... so I would certainly argue against merits of long reach and short chainstay.

    Bikes can't just keep getting longer and slacker forever because the marketing guys decide that is the easiest way to sell bikes. Like everything in the bike industry... it's cyclical. I'll laugh if (when) in a few years brands start raving about the benefits of more compact bikes! haha
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    Right on Keith. Awesome feedback. Like I said "if these things stick around...." because you're totally right - it's trending now but who knows where we'll settle.

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    I think it's a fad because of all the roadie type geo mountain bikes had for years in the XC/Trail categories and people are just going to the other end of the extremes to find the limits. Personally for me at 6'2.25", nearly 50, some nagging back/leg issues, even if I ran a 30mm stem, a Reach over 490mm would absolutely be too big for me. Where I see the new longer Reach playing a big role is for all those really tall guys who had to get by on "real" size XLs when they needed to be on a "real" XXL or even XXXL.

    Took a guy out from Canada on our local group ride yesterday and he had a small custom frame he just purchased, he's about 6ft and a smidge, said he's raced mtn bikes since he was 15 (now in his early 30s) and he went with a "medium" because the reach was just so long even on that at 448mm, was running a 70mm stem/780ish bar and he definitely could handle a bike.
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    Most of these extreme-geo bikes are on the long-travel end of the spectrum and are simply too much bike for an average rider on average trails. I see a lot of folks buying these mega slack 160mm 29ers and loving the geo but not loving the weight and crappy pedaling. They'll want that same geo in a trail-bike package.

    The only evolution I'd like to see on the Banshee geo philosophy would be to have ST and standover heights as low as possible for all sizes. If your average 5'10" rider could ride all three sizes, would provide max flexibility to choose based on desired ride characteristics. Combine that with the long/short dropout options and you'd have a very flexible roster of bikes.

    Personally, at 5'10", I'd love to try an XL Prime as my next enduro bike. But I'd need at least 20mm off the seat tube and a touch more standover.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    Personally, at 5'10", I'd love to try an XL Prime as my next enduro bike. But I'd need at least 20mm off the seat tube and a touch more standover.
    Main issue with making ST as low as possible on XL frames is they no longer fit actual XL sized riders. With long legs at 6'3 I already have the pole at the minimum insertion line.

    I also don't have the choice in many frames nowdays as a trend in keeping bikes low, means if I downsize a frame size to get a shorter reach, the seat can never be high enough.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill=sad View Post
    Main issue with making ST as low as possible on XL frames is they no longer fit actual XL sized riders. With long legs at 6'3 I already have the pole at the minimum insertion line.

    I also don't have the choice in many frames nowdays as a trend in keeping bikes low, means if I downsize a frame size to get a shorter reach, the seat can never be high enough.
    You need a bigger pole! Surly a 9.8 200mm dropper would fit, that's 380mm at min insertion!

    Also important is max insertion depth. I was able to slam my 200mm dropper on a XL Rune. That requires ~300mm insertion, not many frames are capable of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtMerchantBicycles View Post
    You need a bigger pole! Surly a 9.8 200mm dropper would fit, that's 380mm at min insertion!

    Also important is max insertion depth. I was able to slam my 200mm dropper on a XL Rune. That requires ~300mm insertion, not many frames are capable of that.
    I think they are somewhere around 550mm total length? would be plenty long enough, however I am using KS LEV's as they have never let me down or anyone in the riding group (possible we all have gotten lucky), and the longest they make is 490mm total length.

    I also have to choose taller saddle were possible, every extra mm helps.

    Another issue is with massive amounts of seat pole, the 'effective' STA are terrible, these fandagled ridiculously long bikes at least get that bit correct for us tall peeps 76>+

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    there are quite a few innovations that i'm waiting for Banshee to adopt,
    --34.9 dropper post, which would allow longer and stronger dropper and lower stand over,
    --metric shock, longer stroke design.
    --usable bottle cage location, this is the hardest to implement on current frame design, impossible almost, unless Keith goes vertical shock design.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    Most of these extreme-geo bikes are on the long-travel end of the spectrum and are simply too much bike for an average rider on average trails. I see a lot of folks buying these mega slack 160mm 29ers and loving the geo but not loving the weight and crappy pedaling. They'll want that same geo in a trail-bike package.

    The only evolution I'd like to see on the Banshee geo philosophy would be to have ST and standover heights as low as possible for all sizes. If your average 5'10" rider could ride all three sizes, would provide max flexibility to choose based on desired ride characteristics. Combine that with the long/short dropout options and you'd have a very flexible roster of bikes.

    Personally, at 5'10", I'd love to try an XL Prime as my next enduro bike. But I'd need at least 20mm off the seat tube and a touch more standover.
    I completely agree. I'm looking at an XL Rune for the reach over my 15' Spitty but the seat tube may be a bit too tall. Wondering if the seat tube could be cut down safely.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangtime View Post
    I completely agree. I'm looking at an XL Rune for the reach over my 15' Spitty but the seat tube may be a bit too tall. Wondering if the seat tube could be cut down safely.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I've cut a carbon seat tube down, I'd say you could get it done on aluminum. I wouldn't hesitate if the bike was set up right to get it done.

    You just need to leave enough above the top tube brace to allow it to flex while clamping on the seat post. Just dremel the notch down and bore the little hole at the bottom to mirror what it was before you cut.

    Looking at pics the Prime may not have enough seat tube sticking up above the brace to make this feasible.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill=sad View Post
    Main issue with making ST as low as possible on XL frames is they no longer fit actual XL sized riders. With long legs at 6'3 I already have the pole at the minimum insertion line.

    I also don't have the choice in many frames nowdays as a trend in keeping bikes low, means if I downsize a frame size to get a shorter reach, the seat can never be high enough.
    Totally agree!

    42" inseam makes my Phantom look like this:
    Banshee Bikes 2018 - Official Rumor Thread-img_0760.jpg.jpg

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    Gosh😳😳😳 ......you’d need 32 inch wheels

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    Wow...

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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    Totally agree!

    42" inseam makes my Phantom look like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now there is a bike that I can fit on Actually, I don't think I'd even need the dropper at full extension! edit: My inseam with cycling shoes on is 41 inches, you are officially very tall.

    Picture also highlights the issue with effective vs actual STA, with the longer longer seat poles / higher seat height resulting in very slack effective STA, which makes for a pretty substandard seated climbing position.

    I was impressed that the last Rune update had steeper STA's in L and XL, very forward thinking compared to many brands, but half a degree is negligible, needs to be 1.5-2 degrees steeper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    Totally agree!

    42" inseam makes my Phantom look like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Simply actual XL bikes are not proportionate to taller riders. This pic reminds me how looked like my 26" bikes.
    I think 6'3"/6'4" is the height limit of actual bike proportions....beyond that it is necessary to increase wheel diameter and crank length
    Last edited by filbike; 05-24-2018 at 12:40 AM.

  127. #127
    vko
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    I believe the line up needs one more size like xxl.
    I currently ride Rune xl i'm 1.88m and I'd like to try a 500mm reach maybe with a 40mm stem instead the 50mm I use.
    But I have to give credit to Keith one more time since one of the most anticipated, hi end, super expensive frames from the design guru Cesar Rojo the 5000€ Unno Burn is actually a carbon rune maybe with a tweak in kinematics.
    https://www.unno.com/burn/

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill=sad View Post

    Picture also highlights the issue with effective vs actual STA, with the longer longer seat poles / higher seat height resulting in very slack effective STA, which makes for a pretty substandard seated climbing position.
    Spot on!

    This is why, even though I'm super happy with the Phantom, I'm tempted to try out something from Guerilla Gravity.
    The Pole Evolink bikes are even more extreme when it comes to STA (and reach), but their seat tubes are sadly too short..

    My (selfish) wishes for future Banshee models:
    -Steeper STA..
    -..and compensate with longer reach
    -Go back to 21" seat tubes

  129. #129
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    I’ve owned and thoroughly enjoyed a number of Banshees.

    Here’s the reality for me (and I certainly don’t apply it across the board): if I can’t get a bottle inside the triangle, it’s pretty much a deal-killer.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by vko View Post
    I believe the line up needs one more size like xxl.
    I currently ride Rune xl i'm 1.88m and I'd like to try a 500mm reach maybe with a 40mm stem instead the 50mm I use.
    But I have to give credit to Keith one more time since one of the most anticipated, hi end, super expensive frames from the design guru Cesar Rojo the 5000€ Unno Burn is actually a carbon rune maybe with a tweak in kinematics.
    https://www.unno.com/burn/
    Looks more like a Dave Weagle Link-Variation to me ... ?

    But yes, you can´t serve everyone when it comes to frame-size and therefor seat-tube-length. I personally would always prefer a shorter seat-tube and I´m happy Banshee has shorten them since MY17. I think really tall riders are in need of a real XXL frame ...

  131. #131
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    Suggestion for 2019 Prime colour...

    Banshee Bikes 2018 - Official Rumor Thread-28161832_10156554104702668_8347721130602505843_o.jpg

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    yes! like!

  133. #133
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    absolutely like .....with a tad more reach and siacker HA geo tweaks
    Last edited by filbike; 02-26-2018 at 07:12 PM.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    Totally agree!

    42" inseam makes my Phantom look like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I sold my Rune three years ago and wept when doing that, but XL was just too small for me and I am "merely" 6'5". The bike was a real shredder, stiff and well made, but way too small. 36" inseam.

    I moved to Mondraker Crafty RR+, exploited the + tyre fad and put 29" wheels there. Its geometry is spot on, especially after I put 1.5* headset, but I can't use an FD and the rear is kind of flimsy.

    The bike looks like this:


  135. #135
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    Yeah, when I heard they made the ST shorter I was kinda bummed. I have a 13 Prime and any shorter would really mess things up.

  136. #136
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    Wow! Give me that color option for the Rune and you'll have my money in no time! Loved the raw / black decals back then!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    The new "burnished black" models from Jenson look so sick.


  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindPatterns View Post
    Wow! Give me that color option for the Rune and you'll have my money in no time! Loved the raw / black decals back then!
    .......

    http://www.jensonusa.com/Banshee-Run...nson-Bike-2017

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  138. #138
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    I'm located in Germany, unfortunately (no shipping due to manufacturer restrictions). And just interested in the frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    .......

    Banshee Rune GX Eagle Jenson V1 Bike 17 | Jenson USA

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  139. #139
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    I'm wondering to change my 15 rune with a new one or a Spitfire . Not having lot of time at bike park and riding most of the time on rough Alps trail , what do you suggest ?

    C

  140. #140
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    I'd say it sounds like a good plan, once you can afford it and/or sell the old one to make something back and are looking for some new bike stoke. No sense lugging around more bike than you need might even spark a refreshed enjoyment when you do encounter trails with bigger features and you have to maybe work a bit harder to clean them. I just got a new rigid and while it's a crap load of work and hard on the body, it gives me great sense of accomplishment when I clear trails most others think they "need" a 130mm> bike to ride, really is giving me some new passion to ride again.

    Quote Originally Posted by krj View Post
    I'm wondering to change my 15 rune with a new one or a Spitfire . Not having lot of time at bike park and riding most of the time on rough Alps trail , what do you suggest ?

    C
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by vko View Post
    Hmmmmm. Dual crown bumper eh?

    EDIT: Now that I bring it up on PC, you can see it's a new Legend. But how new? Or just new colorway??
    Last edited by Lithified; 03-19-2018 at 03:27 PM.

  143. #143
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    29er? Everyone else is doing it! If the rune had a 29 option I’d buy it yesterday

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    krj I made that switch last month and it feels good. Depends on what you ride, for 90% of trails I didn't need all of the runes capabilities and spitfire is more than enough.


    Hey Keith, when is the blog coming out?

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by winkothemadman View Post
    krj I made that switch last month and it feels good. Depends on what you ride, for 90% of trails I didn't need all of the runes capabilities and spitfire is more than enough.


    Hey Keith, when is the blog coming out?
    Got a few big project deadlines I've set myself coming up... blog will come when engineering is done!
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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    Banshee Blog

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by krj View Post
    I'm wondering to change my 15 rune with a new one or a Spitfire . Not having lot of time at bike park and riding most of the time on rough Alps trail , what do you suggest ?
    Same here: When the Rune is "too much" then the Spitfire is just right. The frame is rigid and durable enough for rough alpine trails.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Got a few big project deadlines I've set myself coming up... blog will come when engineering is done!
    +1 for the blog! I really miss it!

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    This is a Jenson specific graphic colour. We offer this raw tint finish, but with different decal colours.
    My buddy just ordered a Red Prime with black decals from Jenson (didn't know this color existed other than the 2014 model which IMO are unicorns). I told him he doesn't have to worry about passing another red Prime on the trail.

    As much as I love mine, he is more of a speed-focused XC guy so I was skeptical about him getting a Prime. He doesn't want carbon, which rules out most of the bikes you can demo around here that meet his requirements. He's fast going up, slow going down. We spent 2 hours setting him up on my other friend's medium Prime. He ended up killing it on the downs, and was just as fast going up. He was concerned about the pedaling, but after riding it, couldn't find a downside there. After trying it on a few different trails, he just flat-out wanted one.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Is it blue on one side and white on the other or did you buy two of whatever that is?

  149. #149
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    Great I 'm so close to put this project live that i' m just wondering about the size of a my2018 spitfire. With rune 15 I'm perfect on a L after rode a M. Looking at s 18 I've founded the top tub 0.5 cm longer but the reach more than 1.2 cm. So being 1.79 tall I was wondering the right choice

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by winkothemadman View Post
    krj I made that switch last month and it feels good. Depends on what you ride, for 90% of trails I didn't need all of the runes capabilities and spitfire is more than enough.


    Hey Keith, when is the blog coming out?
    Not far to have it up and running but, out of the size doubt posted earlier, I'm setting on the fence about these new big project : should I stay or should I go?
    :-)

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by vko View Post
    Ummmm.......!!!!!!!

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/feat...0683/sspomer,2


  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    My buddy just ordered a Red Prime with black decals from Jenson (didn't know this color existed other than the 2014 model which IMO are unicorns). I told him he doesn't have to worry about passing another red Prime on the trail.

    As much as I love mine, he is more of a speed-focused XC guy so I was skeptical about him getting a Prime. He doesn't want carbon, which rules out most of the bikes you can demo around here that meet his requirements. He's fast going up, slow going down. We spent 2 hours setting him up on my other friend's medium Prime. He ended up killing it on the downs, and was just as fast going up. He was concerned about the pedaling, but after riding it, couldn't find a downside there. After trying it on a few different trails, he just flat-out wanted one.

    Dude that looks sick. And a great spec for the price.


  153. #153
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    Yeah I personally don't go for built bikes, but most everything on the bike should work well for him, and the rims "should" be 30mm internal based his research. His bike was the last one and is gone now, but it was 2999 for the GX with a 12-speed, Pike RTC3, Monarch shock, stealth dropper, and I think everything else was lower end. We saw that the XO build was $1000 more. I just hope it has everything listed in the spec...we will see. I thought it was almost too good to be true.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Is it blue on one side and white on the other or did you buy two of whatever that is?

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    Yeah I personally don't go for built bikes, but most everything on the bike should work well for him, and the rims "should" be 30mm internal based his research. His bike was the last one and is gone now, but it was 2999 for the GX with a 12-speed, Pike RTC3, Monarch shock, stealth dropper, and I think everything else was lower end. We saw that the XO build was $1000 more. I just hope it has everything listed in the spec...we will see. I thought it was almost too good to be true.
    Oh dude, GX build for $3k? Win! The GX is the sweet spot for $$/performance for me. Good deal. Some real world shots would be great if you're riding with him!

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  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by krj View Post
    Great I 'm so close to put this project live that i' m just wondering about the size of a my2018 spitfire. With rune 15 I'm perfect on a L after rode a M. Looking at s 18 I've founded the top tub 0.5 cm longer but the reach more than 1.2 cm. So being 1.79 tall I was wondering the right choice
    I´m 180 cm tall, with 84 cm inseam. Went first with a medium Spitfire, but switched to a large one after 3 month. Since then I never looked back to a smaller size again!
    The roomier cockpit simply feels better and more comfortable on the ups and downs during a long day in the saddle.
    So, with your measurements I would recommend large. Stem-length between 30 and 50 mm.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Got a few big project deadlines I've set myself coming up... blog will come when engineering is done!
    Hi Keith,

    "A few" means we should expect more that the 29er Legend???

  157. #157
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    Banshee Bikes 2018 - Official Rumor Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vko View Post
    Hi Keith,

    "A few" means we should expect more that the 29er Legend???
    A slight rework on the Prime perhaps? 150/160 LT with 64 degree HA?


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    Last edited by Hangtime; 05-29-2018 at 05:47 PM.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post
    there are quite a few innovations that i'm waiting for Banshee to adopt,
    --34.9 dropper post, which would allow longer and stronger dropper and lower stand over,
    --metric shock, longer stroke design.
    --usable bottle cage location, this is the hardest to implement on current frame design, impossible almost, unless Keith goes vertical shock design.
    check out what SC Nomad ended up with, a shorter stroke shock in metric than compared to the 8.2 2.5 on their previous model... I get that new standards protect the investment, but for me LR is way more important than a new standard that ultimately does not add value to my ride,
    18 Intense Tracer NM
    16 Canfield Balance
    15 Banshee Darkside

  159. #159
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    Fan Art Banshee



    Fan art of my dream spitty, lower stand over and crucial frame guards

  160. #160
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    wow- that would look great!

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post


    Fan art of my dream spitty, lower stand over and crucial frame guards
    That looks dope!
    My wishlist would look something like this:

    -a little bit more progression and mid stroke support. apparently my taste is for more progression than most manufactures but on almost every bike i have ridden in the past one or the other is too mellow. sadly fixing one usually impacts the other negative

    -since im on flatpedals, a little less chaingrowth

    -geometrie: mainly just cut the seattubes, especially on the 29ers.
    chainstay,lw etc who cares. a few mm here or there is just keyboard warrioring. if it really bothers fix it with angle set/offset bushings. overal the geo is fine, with the prime as the "enduro" 29 maybe the most outdated looking

    -unpopular but: get rid of the swapable dropouts

    -whatever you do, dont become more expensive!

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by livanh View Post
    That looks dope!
    My wishlist would look something like this:

    -a little bit more progression and mid stroke support. apparently my taste is for more progression than most manufactures but on almost every bike i have ridden in the past one or the other is too mellow. sadly fixing one usually impacts the other negative

    -since im on flatpedals, a little less chaingrowth

    -geometrie: mainly just cut the seattubes, especially on the 29ers.
    chainstay,lw etc who cares. a few mm here or there is just keyboard warrioring. if it really bothers fix it with angle set/offset bushings. overal the geo is fine, with the prime as the "enduro" 29 maybe the most outdated looking

    -unpopular but: get rid of the swapable dropouts

    -whatever you do, dont become more expensive!

    Im only getting a Rune today, because of the modular dropouts, I can use my non-boost wheel set and when I get to sell it, I can throw in both dropouts.. I could not care less about boost., but I will hit a little bit less to have a the bike boost updated for resale value
    18 Intense Tracer NM
    16 Canfield Balance
    15 Banshee Darkside

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by luisgutierod View Post
    Im only getting a Rune today, because of the modular dropouts, I can use my non-boost wheel set and when I get to sell it, I can throw in both dropouts.. I could not care less about boost., but I will hit a little bit less to have a the bike boost updated for resale value
    Yeah i understand why people like them. i just dont

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by livanh View Post
    That looks dope!

    -geometrie: mainly just cut the seattubes, especially on the 29ers.
    What year you riding? ST on my'18 Prime is ridiculously low. At 5'10 I run a 170 dropper in a Large frame....

  165. #165
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    For the love of god, please do not cut the seat tubes any more, or if you do...make an XXL for those of us who are taller. Long dropper posts are just huge levers and for those of us on the bigger side it put's a lot of strain on the frame and the post...broken stuff sucks.

  166. #166
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    What about a new paradox ?
    I‘d Love to see an aggressive 29er Trail hardtail

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindPatterns View Post
    Wow! Give me that color option for the Rune and you'll have my money in no time! Loved the raw / black decals back then!
    Nice! Anyone know if these clear coated or totally RAW?

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler View Post
    Nice! Anyone know if these clear coated or totally RAW?
    Clear coated
    18 Intense Tracer NM
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    15 Banshee Darkside

  169. #169
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    Still waiting to see what projects banshee has in the works. I bought a beautiful burnished black prime last month and now my son wants one. Just waiting to see what else banshee may come up with

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigso View Post
    Still waiting to see what projects banshee has in the works. I bought a beautiful burnished black prime last month and now my son wants one. Just waiting to see what else banshee may come up with
    I'm waiting too, but probably won't be soon.

  171. #171
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    Limited Edition colors for the Rune, Prime, Spitfire, and Phantom. Unfortunately, not included in the End of Season Sale.







    Dirt Merchant Bicycles
    Providing unrivaled support and unbeatable pricing on all cycling goods to riders near and far.

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