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  1. #1
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    New question here. Banshee 2019 peekaboo

    I resisted temptation to change my 2013 Prime (even if it is still going strong)
    Banshee 2019 peekaboo-img_6378.jpg

    to a newer frame,
    ..... but for next year won't.
    I'm looking around but I'm my heart I'm hoping for some geo tweaks or upgrade on Prime or Phantom.

    please post news, speculations, thoughts here
    Last edited by filbike; 09-16-2019 at 02:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    LOL. We are all always so stoked for the new bits. Keith has made the move to abolish "model years." Has stated he'll just bring a new bike out when it's time. I can't wait to see exactly what that means. In another thread he mentioned some ongoing engineering projects and ya I suspect some tweaks to those bikes is in order.

    My personal guess is a bit more travel (10-15mm) on both wagon wheelers. I could see Rune going to 170/180 as well since there it is so widely understood that the Spitfire and Rune have a ton of overlap - also would position it nicely to battle against the new crop of these long legged Manduro bikes (Nomad, Firebird, Slayer, etc).

  3. #3
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    I personally don't see much they could do to "improve" the Prime over what they already did last year - increase by roughly 1cm, slacken HTA 1 degree, lightened frame weight. Only thing they might do is increase travel a bit, but honestly, the 130mm of travel the Prime has feels a lot like other bikes that have 15-20mm more travel and you still get the excellent climbing manners.

    I'm personally hoping they don't go bonkers on increasing travel and help further the "over biked" on the mentality to get more travel to help counter lack of working on skills crowd.
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  4. #4
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    Heard a new darkside is coming

  5. #5
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    Heard a new hardtail is coming.

  6. #6
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    I could and would love to see the Prime move in the direction of the new Ibis. Maintain the geometry, but add 15-20mm more travel and a water bottle mount inside the front triangle.
    Banshee 2019 peekaboo-primesidestealth.jpgBanshee 2019 peekaboo-ripmo_builder_xx1kit.jpg

    They are very similar and it is the Ibis DW-link that Banshee's KS-link feels the most like with their exceptional pedaling characteristics.
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  7. #7
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    Would you guys buy something like this?
    -Changed the downtube to allow a 500ml bottle
    -Added frame guard and chain slap guard
    -color way from Legend

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post


    Would you guys buy something like this?
    -Changed the downtube to allow a 500ml bottle
    -Added frame guard and chain slap guard
    -color way from Legend
    Take my money

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post


    Would you guys buy something like this?
    -Changed the downtube to allow a 500ml bottle
    -Added frame guard and chain slap guard
    -color way from Legend
    I thought about this too - a sloped Downtubetowards the bb, as Banshee did on the Scythe or Wildcard ...
    Not sure if Keith shouts out "Hell-Yeah" to the internal cable-routing ...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Not sure if Keith shouts out "Hell-Yeah" to the internal cable-routing ...
    Oh shoot...didn't notice that at earlier glance. At least run the brake external. Then I'd be on-board

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post


    Would you guys buy something like this?
    -Changed the downtube to allow a 500ml bottle
    -Added frame guard and chain slap guard
    -color way from Legend
    Not a fan of bottle on frame....but is just for aesthetics.
    I'd like longer TT and tad shorter CS on all sizes and PM brake mount.
    I'd possibly run cables on or in CS

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HELLBELLY View Post
    I could and would love to see the Prime move in the direction of the new Ibis. Maintain the geometry, but add 15-20mm more travel and a water bottle mount inside the front triangle.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    They are very similar and it is the Ibis DW-link that Banshee's KS-link feels the most like with their exceptional pedaling characteristics.
    Is it me or does the Prime looks a heck of a lot better?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    I'd like longer TT and tad shorter CS on all sizes and PM brake mount.
    Perfect. +1

  14. #14
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    I am still running a 13 Prime...I have test ridden a few bikes but none have been better. The prime is a sexy bike...but just needs a in frame bottle mount to really do well in today's marketplace. The other thing I would like is a XXL with a longer seat tube...the shortening of the ST in the last prime bummed me out.

    One of the other bikes that really look good is the Guerilla Gravity Smash. Just great geo, a long enough seat tube, sexy alu, with in frame bottle mount!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuman View Post


    Would you guys buy something like this?
    -Changed the downtube to allow a 500ml bottle
    -Added frame guard and chain slap guard
    -color way from Legend
    I am not a fan of internal routings and don't care about frame protection either....but making the frame bottle-ready would be extremely cool!

  16. #16
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    Let's see, what would I want in a new Prime? Here goes, although building it the way I want it might be a good way to go out of business.

    1) 150 or 157 rear. I won't buy a Boost or 142 bike unless I really get in a jam. (I'm a real PITA, ain't I?)

    2) Longer reach or an XXL, either works fine for me. I'd like another 1 to 1.5 inches over the current XL Prime, but could make do with .75" or so. I understand that Banshee may not sell the volume to justify that.

    3) What the heck, let's go another 1/2 degree slacker. I'm running mine at 65.5 and happy with it. Wheelbase does get longer, but I can live with that.

    4) I'm happy with the chainstay length. I do understand that on the smaller-sized frames, a little shorter would be beneficial in some cases.

    5) Not a huge need, but I'd prefer more travel as long efficient pedaling can be maintained. I like the anti-squat the way it is, although there is plenty, and just slightly less should be fine. Also I don't think I'd care about AS in the last 30 - 40 mm of travel. But definitely needed in the first 2/3 of the stroke. I am probably alone in my thinking on this, but I'd rather have more travel available, and use the shock volume to tune for a more responsive feel when that is desired.

    6) Maybe this should go without saying, but stay with aluminum, adjustable / replaceable dropouts / threaded BB. I honestly can't remember the last time I adjusted or removed my seatpost. I actually service it on the bike. But I trust that when the time comes, I will be able to remove it from the frame.

    7) Water bottle above the DT would be nice, but low priority compared to the other things I want in a bike.

    I don't desire internal cable routing (other than the dropper of course). What I would prefer is a very positive way to lock down the cables instead of zip ties. My 2012 GT Sensor had water bottle-type holes in the frame for this, which were used to attach 2-piece sandwich mounts.

    Colors and graphics...I've come to a point where I can't handle big contrasting letters splashed on the downtube of a bike. I do really dig the 2017 graphic design other than the downtube. Love the "strobe" effect. I had to strip my 2013 frame because I could not stand the "doodles". I love orange bikes, but don't like the yellow logos on the 2017s. You can please some of the people some of the time...

  17. #17
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    Two more things on my wishlist:

    1. bring the banshee blog to life again!
    2. start blogging!

    @keith
    Maybe I am completely wrong with my impression written down below, but it is how I see it (as a European Banshee fan who is not using facebook. Maybe that's the problem...).
    One of the positive characteristics of your brand is the close communication to us. Banshee used to be great in selling the feeling and spirit of just mtb addicts. We all know you are but this is something I have been missing for a while now. Banshee/you used to be very active and present in forums, the blog, in the news etc. Somehow this has slowly changed over the last year. I totally understand that you cannot and don't want to put new staff on the marked every 10-12 months, but it would be good to at least get some teasers delivered every now and then (I am aware that this is very time consuming). We are all excited to see what's in your brain. We want to know your opinion on certain things etc.
    The websites of the usual suspects like pinkbike, vital mtb, mtb-news etc are full with news, marketing bullshit, crazy ideas etc. The speed of the whole machinery is crazy. You don't have to go this pace, but at least I would like to occasionally get a few bread crumbs.

    Sincerely, one of te biggest fans, Rune and Phantom (replaced my Spitfire) rider.....
    Last edited by grazertourer; 05-16-2018 at 10:42 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Is it me or does the Prime looks a heck of a lot better?
    You are correct. However, I do not think making the few adjustments as noted (bottle cage inside front triangle, a little more travel, etc) would adversely effect the Prime's esthetics and only enhance it's performance.

    "Everything popular is wrong." -Oscar Wilde

  19. #19
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    Impatiently waiting news about new toys (or tweaks to old toys) from Banshee..... I keep riding my ‘13 Prime wondering when or if I’ll be fed up about this bike.
    I’m fully aware that riding satisfaction comes mainly (if not completely) trough skills and fitness improvement and a bike like mine leaves little to desire in terms of capabilities.
    But for the peace of my mind I hope that in short time a longer reach, shorter stay and eye catchin’ fluo green colour Prime frame will pop out from Banshee site.

  20. #20
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    I'm surprised no one caught this from their FB.
    Banshee 2019 peekaboo-35758843_1872935942765068_6809111305627107328_n.jpg
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  21. #21
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    Well don't that look sweet!!

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtMerchantBicycles View Post
    I'm surprised no one caught this from their FB.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    well, not my preferred green but I'd buy it....let's hope for geo tweaks now
    Last edited by filbike; 08-03-2018 at 07:27 AM.

  23. #23
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    Starting with the 2017’s we did away with “model years” and instead switched to doing our releases as “versions”.

    This way we can control release better, and only put a new product to market once fully tested and ready. I also allows our products to remain current and relevant longer for both dealers and our customers, vs. having little updates rendering them out of date.

    So for the Phantom, the version release in calendar year 2017 with the updated hydroformed tub-set and refined dropouts is the most updated version, and this will continue to be the most updated version for a while to come. So no need to worry about a release in a few months with new updates. A new color is coming in a few months, however nothing major is changing for a little while.

    Thanks for reaching out and the interest in the Phantom!

    **Here is the answer to my question about the future Phantom

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFWY View Post
    Starting with the 2017’s we did away with “model years” and instead switched to doing our releases as “versions”.

    This way we can control release better, and only put a new product to market once fully tested and ready. I also allows our products to remain current and relevant longer for both dealers and our customers, vs. having little updates rendering them out of date.

    So for the Phantom, the version release in calendar year 2017 with the updated hydroformed tub-set and refined dropouts is the most updated version, and this will continue to be the most updated version for a while to come. So no need to worry about a release in a few months with new updates. A new color is coming in a few months, however nothing major is changing for a little while.

    Thanks for reaching out and the interest in the Phantom!

    **Here is the answer to my question about the future Phantom

  25. #25
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    So what are you guys running on your primes. I just ordered a gx build from jenson and already looking at upgrading the brakes. I have some new rev grips but everything else stock.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    well, not my preferred green but I'd buy it....let's hope for geo tweaks now
    I'd really love to see an anodised olive/army green Spitfire, done in the stealth frame's style of matte and polished finish. It's a Spitfire, tell me that wouldn't look awesome.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Banshee 2019 peekaboo-fvb6fn2ftvvkxbc.large.jpg  


  27. #27
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    Limited Edition colors for the Rune, Prime, Spitfire, and Phantom. Unfortunately, not included in the End of Season Sale.







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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by juanbeegas View Post
    I'd really love to see an anodised olive/army green Spitfire, done in the stealth frame's style of matte and polished finish. It's a Spitfire, tell me that wouldn't look awesome.
    That would indeed look awesome... unfortunately because we use superior strength 7005 T6 alloy, anodizing only works in black (goes streaky in lighter colours because of grain structure), and we aren't prepared to switch to cheaper 6061 just to be able anodize in every colour. We continue to look for new anodizing tech that might enable things like this, but no luck so far.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtMerchantBicycles View Post
    Limited Edition colors for the Rune, Prime, Spitfire, and Phantom. Unfortunately, not included in the End of Season Sale.







    well... that green/orange would have satisfied me on the Prime ......really don't like that blue....I'll keep on with my '13 fluo yellow

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    unfortunately because we use superior strength 7005 T6 alloy, anodizing only works in black (goes streaky in lighter colours because of grain structure), and we aren't prepared to switch to cheaper 6061 just to be able anodize in every colour. We continue to look for new anodizing tech that might enable things like this, but no luck so far.
    I never knew that, that's a shame... The streaky colour, not the reluctance to change to an inferior metal. Looks like I may hold onto my 2014 Rune for a while longer.

  31. #31
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    Really starting to toy with the idea of a hardtail. 29er, may go SS, just to change it up, give the Prime a break, keep the skills sharp, and hoon around a bit. Is the Paradox coming back Keith? Or something else? Currently the SC Chameleon tops my list, but if I'm honest, I'm at least ~6mo out and wouldn't mind waiting for a Banshee!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    Really starting to toy with the idea of a hardtail. 29er, may go SS, just to change it up, give the Prime a break, keep the skills sharp, and hoon around a bit. Is the Paradox coming back Keith? Or something else? Currently the SC Chameleon tops my list, but if I'm honest, I'm at least ~6mo out and wouldn't mind waiting for a Banshee!
    ...might be worth waiting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    ...might be worth waiting!
    that's what im talkin bout!!!! Awesome. Will be keeping an eye out!

  34. #34
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    I wish they would make Darkside slightly longer in reach (nothing too drastic though), reach in size Large in slackest position is only 433mm, something at least like 445mm would be perfect.

    And i wish they would make bb height lower for 650 wheels. Somewhere around 343mm in slackest position. I know that would present problems for 26 wheels, the bike would be too low probably but yeah, i wish it were lower with the bigger wheels.

    Pretty much perfect bike otherwise.

  35. #35
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    ^^ And yeah, raw alu color with black signs please.

  36. #36
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    I have a Spitfire that I love but would like to add to my stable an updated Phantom with 120mm rear travel, new geo, and room for bottle cage for those XC rides.

  37. #37
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    OK, what possible "new" geo could the Phantom possibly need? For fvcks sake, it just had some tweaks in 2017, it's a short travel trail bike meant to be able to cover lots of terrain, flat, climbing or descending and be confident as heck going down despite excellent climbing and flat/rolling terrain manners. I swear if you say lower BB and slacker HTA and steeper STA I'll loose it Have you ever even ridden a Phantom or are you just going by your armchair degree?


    Quote Originally Posted by betorac View Post
    I have a Spitfire that I love but would like to add to my stable an updated Phantom with 120mm rear travel, new geo, and room for bottle cage for those XC rides.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    OK, what possible "new" geo could the Phantom possibly need? For fvcks sake, it just had some tweaks in 2017, it's a short travel trail bike meant to be able to cover lots of terrain, flat, climbing or descending and be confident as heck going down despite excellent climbing and flat/rolling terrain manners. I swear if you say lower BB and slacker HTA and steeper STA I'll loose it Have you ever even ridden a Phantom or are you just going by your armchair degree?
    Holy crap! This made me laugh!!

    And I completely agree......

    Sincerely,
    Another extremely happy Phantom owner

  39. #39
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    Yeah don't assume since that makes you look like an ass. Geo tweaks to accommodate a little more travel and water bottle. Reach increased in M to arround 440. STA and HA are good. no on lowering bb, they're low enough and pedals strikes suck. And how you know i was an engineer lol?

  40. #40
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    Didn't assume anything, you're just another EnduroBro following along like a good sheeple

    Luckily Keith is an engineer who actually goes through a thorough thought process before even thinking about doing stuff and if you did that, you'd realise that Banshee only offers their 29ers is 3 sizes, not 4 like the 26"/650B bikes, so when smart you moves the medium reach to 440mm, what's that poor chap a few inches shorter than you sposed to do when he already needed a 35mm stem to fit the current medium?

    Travel is fine, want more, get a Prime. Hope that Keith keeps it as is so that if you own both a Prime and Phantom, there's no hard thinking when deciding what bike to grab as they're quite different in how they feel - Phantom delivers a lot of feedback, really rewards the rider actually riding, fantastic trail bike, Prime is a magic carpet type ride by comparison, really made for bashing, punches well above what the geo might lead you to think, same actually with the Phantom.

    Again, before you assume and arm chair engineer, ride one and actually get to feel the ride quality

    Quote Originally Posted by betorac View Post
    Yeah don't assume since that makes you look like an ass. Geo tweaks to accommodate a little more travel and water bottle. Reach increased in M to arround 440. STA and HA are good. no on lowering bb, they're low enough and pedals strikes suck. And how you know i was an engineer lol?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  41. #41
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    Ain't no right or wrong

    This last year I moved about 85 miles north. Big change in access and trail styles, and I found it really changed what I wanted out of my bikes geometry. Faster, mostly flatter trails, more jumps, not as much low-speed, steep tech. I went to a 1.5" longer bike and was instantly more comfortable on the high speed jumps. Steeper seat tube is nice on the climbs.

    It had me thinking about how the geometry trends mainly follow shifts in trail access and trail building standards. You don't hear anybody saying "That long wheelbase will suck on skinnies" these days.

    I don't enduro anything, but for sure CDC etc has fueled a lot of local trail building and development, and the new school geometry is purpose built for those styles of trails.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Didn't assume anything, you're just another EnduroBro following along like a good sheeple

    Luckily Keith is an engineer who actually goes through a thorough thought process before even thinking about doing stuff and if you did that, you'd realise that Banshee only offers their 29ers is 3 sizes, not 4 like the 26"/650B bikes, so when smart you moves the medium reach to 440mm, what's that poor chap a few inches shorter than you sposed to do when he already needed a 35mm stem to fit the current medium?

    Travel is fine, want more, get a Prime. Hope that Keith keeps it as is so that if you own both a Prime and Phantom, there's no hard thinking when deciding what bike to grab as they're quite different in how they feel - Phantom delivers a lot of feedback, really rewards the rider actually riding, fantastic trail bike, Prime is a magic carpet type ride by comparison, really made for bashing, punches well above what the geo might lead you to think, same actually with the Phantom.

    Again, before you assume and arm chair engineer, ride one and actually get to feel the ride quality
    When you say thing like "Enduro bro" it make YOU look like a real asshole.Maybe take a step back and think about the horseshit you post.

  43. #43
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    As the saying goings. sayings are like ....., everyone has one and that's yours, I'll stick to mine and call a spade a spade when I see one. People are just too damn lazy these days, want everything easy, with less work, so yeah, the EnduroBro crowd, that are way over biked with head angles and wheel bases approaching or even exceeding that of a DH bike, to trail ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by rideonjon View Post
    When you say thing like "Enduro bro" it make YOU look like a real asshole.Maybe take a step back and think about the horseshit you post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  44. #44
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    It would be nice if Legend had 2 options regarding chainstay length, just like Canyon Sender has for instance. To flip the dropout and choose between 445mm or 430mm - or something.

    I know that we are approaching Darkside territory with short CS but Legend is still a different animal even with shorter CS, it is of course slacker, longer and 200mm of travel.

    Just a thought.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dueling Banjos View Post
    ^^ And yeah, raw alu color with black signs please.

    Want to double this post!
    Please Raw Prime with BLACK decals

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim0791 View Post

    Want to double this post!
    Please Raw Prime with BLACK decals
    Black decals are an easy task for graphics shops.
    Look pic of my 2013 Prime at top of thread

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by betorac View Post
    I have a Spitfire that I love but would like to add to my stable an updated Phantom with 120mm rear travel, new geo, and room for bottle cage for those XC rides.
    You might not get the bottle cage, but from experiences from german Phantom-Riders:
    Most of them go with a 130mm travel fork and angleset for a slacker front. Plus many switched from the standard 184/44mm shock to a 190/50mm shock to get almost 120mm rear travel and low flip chip-setting to compensate the slightly higher bb.

    Might be something to think about.

  48. #48
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    Great suggestions and I'll definitely consider it. However just saw the new Canyon Neuron and its basically what I'm looking for. And I have demo'ed the Giant Trance 29 and Pivot Trail 429, both bikes I really enjoyed and can cover 90% of what I ride. So those 3 are at the top of my list. I'm certain the Phantom is a great bike but probably needs some changes to keep up with the competition. Riding with water bottles on my short rides is such a freeing experience and now a "must have" at least for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazza_wil View Post
    "Pre Production" XL frames are available now.
    https://www.dirtmerchantbicycles.com...egend-29-frame
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    ...might be worth waiting!
    Any idea when you'll be ready to share some info on this?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtMerchantBicycles View Post
    "Pre Production" XL frames are available now.
    https://www.dirtmerchantbicycles.com...egend-29-frame
    That bike is sick! The price didn't really surprise me....until I saw that it includes the Fox Dual-Crown fork!

    I need to move to the mountains.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Any idea when you'll be ready to share some info on this?
    Here! Here! I second this motion.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by benmcgill View Post
    Here! Here! I second this motion.
    Seconded. Thirded? I just checked back on this thread after a month or so of crappy weather hoping to see something. Much excite

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    fourthed as well. super curious

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    Fifthfth'd.

  57. #57
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    Drop us a hint on the new hardtail, Built2Ride

    Saw a pic of an AMP with a sick raw/ghost Ano finish it was smokin'!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopbreakindown View Post
    Drop us a hint on the new hardtail, Built2Ride

    **nods aggressively in approval**

    I am starting to buy parts for a new hardtail build this year but am purposefully waiting on frame to see what Banshee drops. Otherwise it's an alloy Chameleon coming to NC!

  59. #59
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    Good luck with that, it's "Mum's the word" on this one, haven't been able to get one bit of a hint from them on it. Guessing if it's dropping early this year it will either be shown at Taipei or Sea Otter, if later Eurobike. My guess is that they've gone quite a bit slacker, somewhere around 65-66* for the HTA and STA has steepened to 74*, Reach has increased to 475-485mm for the XL and it will fit 3.0" B+ or 29x2.6", of course internal dropper routing, only thing I'm not sure on is if it's going to remain alu or going to go steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    **nods aggressively in approval**

    I am starting to buy parts for a new hardtail build this year but am purposefully waiting on frame to see what Banshee drops. Otherwise it's an alloy Chameleon coming to NC!
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Good luck with that, it's "Mum's the word" on this one, haven't been able to get one bit of a hint from them on it. Guessing if it's dropping early this year it will either be shown at Taipei or Sea Otter, if later Eurobike. My guess is that they've gone quite a bit slacker, somewhere around 65-66* for the HTA and STA has steepened to 74*, Reach has increased to 475-485mm for the XL and it will fit 3.0" B+ or 29x2.6", of course internal dropper routing, only thing I'm not sure on is if it's going to remain alu or going to go steel
    Well, a steel horse is in my dreams, and I'm presently aiming at a SHAN GT from PRODUCTION PRIVEE, but I'm really curious of what will pop out from Keith's mind.

  61. #61
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    Banshee 2019 peekaboo-img_9039.jpg
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  62. #62
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    Is that for real or is that just a mock up? Can honestly say, liking the lines of the front tri (looks like the new Phantom front tri), but not digging the lines of the rear to front at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtMerchantBicycles View Post
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  63. #63
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    Definitely not steel I dare say!
    Curious small rear triangle....must have good reason for that.
    Looking at fork seems to support 140/150 mm
    Really can’t wait to read about geo!!

  64. #64
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    It's an XL proto that has already been through machine testing to above EN standards... This project has been going on for some time. Smaller sizes on the protos lined up better, XL was admittedly a bit disjointed. production frames are improved and look HAWT!

    (Wait til you see the details that make this frame special!)
    Last edited by builttoride; 03-20-2019 at 04:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    It's an XL proto that has already been through machine testing to EN standards... This project has been going for some time. Smaller sizes on the protos lined up better, XL was admittedly a bit disjointed. production frames are HAWT!

    (Wait til you see the details that make this frame special!)
    !!!! Awesome. When can we expect to see/read more?

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    !!!! Awesome. When can we expect to see/read more?

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
    I expect that early info will start popping up on websites in coming days... product will be available by summer in limited numbers.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I expect that early info will start popping up on websites in coming days... product will be available by summer in limited numbers.
    Well, just gives me more time to stockpile parts for a 29er hardtail. Can't wait to read the details.

  68. #68
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    It does look like a Phantom!! I'm eager to see the details for sure!

    Does it retain the Paradox name?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post

    Does it retain the Paradox name?
    Yep, https://www.instagram.com/p/BvOtKbrAECZ/

  70. #70
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    It's a paradox all right!
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    That is looking raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad! Nice work Keith.

  72. #72
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    the only new spec (for banshee) I can spot is the internal routing of der cable in chainstay
    Last edited by filbike; 03-20-2019 at 07:19 PM.

  73. #73
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    There's a "little" bit more than that going on from the pics they posted on FB
    https://www.facebook.com/BansheeBikes/

    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    the only new spec (for banshee) I can spot is the internal passage of der cable in chainstay
    Banshee 2019 peekaboo-54377056_2271010919624233_995920366670970880_o.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  74. #74
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    That thing is hot. Would ride 10/10.

  75. #75
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    Please tell me it will be available in stealth ano!
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  76. #76
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    Poop.

    Just checked out the Facebook page and saw the vid of hand polishing the new Paradox frame. I don't even need a hardtail but you polish some aluminum and...

    Sigh...what's the cost?

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    If I didn't just splurge on a Phantom, this would be my next bike...

  79. #79
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    Hey Keith, are decals under clearcoat or up as usual?
    ....really don't like that blue ....planning custom outfit for that beauty.

  80. #80
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    The blue definitely looks better in real life than it seems to come across in photos... is a very dark blue, but pops under bright light. The decals are under a tinted clearcoat, but as always we are happy to supply decal graphics to customers who want to go custom coloured and stick over the top.
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  81. #81
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    so I have to order a graphicless frame .... is it possible right now or I have to wait for 2nd production?
    ....and also, can I do it through banshee bikes europe?

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    Is there any novelty in the rune or speedfire for 2020 or is everything still the same?

  83. #83
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    Modifying the spitfire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winguba View Post
    Is there any novelty in the rune or speedfire for 2020 or is everything still the same?
    i have been on this site everyday for a year or more waiting to see if Keith is modifying or altering the Spitfire. I guess patience is the key.
    Jester

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    Would love to see a Prime with the Paradox geo.

  85. #85
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    Can't say that this wouldn't be a good thing, although my original Prime rides down pretty much anything as is with a 67.5* HTA, but can for sure see the numbers looking more along the lines of the new Paradox when it gets a refresh. Just remember that the Paradox is a HT and as such, geo is to suit, i.e. the front sags, so angles have to be slacker to take this into account when a rider is actually on the bike - Banshee lists un-sagged angles AFAIK.

    As to when you'll see a refresh of which models, I know that Banshee likes to not even think about revisiting a model within 3 years of the last update/refresh, so you could go by that and assume that maybe 2020 will see an up (3 years since the last one), but more likely a 2021 model year update IMHO.

    Hoping that maybe the Prime gets a serious update and the Phantom maybe gets a slight refresh and doesn't fully follow the silly slack and long trend we're seeing these days, producing a bike which is clearly DH biased and just gets you to the top decently and pedals horribly on the flats or long days out with wide varying terrain - most people in the world don't live next to or even close to big mountains with serious ups, most I think have a wider, more mixed variety of trail where a 74*> STA just doesn't work, well that's my opinion at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookes1980 View Post
    Would love to see a Prime with the Paradox geo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    I should have been more precise:
    I really love how my Prime rides. I wouldn´t touch the steering angle, but more reach and a steeper seat angle would be welcome.

    Coming from a non SBG-Smuggler, which is a little bit longer in reach, I still feel cramped on the large Prime. I seriously don´t want to ride a longer stem than 50mil. The XL was to much bike for me, even with a shorter stem. The seat angle made me feel like I´m falling right behind the bike. Maybe it´s just bad luck, but right now I´m between sizes.

    I see the prime as a hardcore trailbike and a tad more playfulness would be welcome, which is why I dig the shorter chainstays of the Paradox.

    I´m a long term Banshee-Fanboy, but right now I catch myself eying other bikes like the Ripmo, which is also capable of gnar, but also more roomy and playful. But honestly it is more on the fugly side, whereas most Banshees are absolutely beautiful, which is the reason I can´t part (yet).

    In short: Hoping for a teaser which keeps me faithful and patient.

  87. #87
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    How tall are you Brookes? Curious, as I'm on a pre-production XL Prime with a 40mm stem and 780 bar and depending on which drop out position I use can either run a straight post or bit setback and I'm 6'2.25" tall. I ran the Prime with a 60mm stem for all of the time I had it as my main ride, but after getting the Phantom and swapping parts directly over, just going to a 70mm stem, on the size L with about 25mm less reach, I figured out why I always had trouble weighting the front on faster stuff on the Prime with 60mm stem.

    Everyone's different, but for me, for a bike I pedal all day on a wide variety of terrain, I like the 74* STA, it allows me the ability to easily get my saddle where I like it and I also like the longer than fashionable stays, as with my height and like of being a bit farther behind the BB than most, it keeps things centered and have no trouble maneuvering it through really tight, slow stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    How tall are you Brookes?
    Around 6´0 (183cm). My saddle is shifted as forward as possible. Our climbs here are short but very steep. Standing is a guarantee to lose your rear grip. I rarely have the problem of losing front grip. Coming from a Nomad which really forces you to weigh the front, even with a 60mm stem. Compared to this the Prime is unpretentious and well-tempered.

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    This combined with a shock mounted to the lower link like on the Legend 29 - mine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookes1980 View Post
    I´m a long term Banshee-Fanboy, but right now I catch myself eying other bikes like the Ripmo, which is also capable of gnar, but also more roomy and playful. But honestly it is more on the fugly side, whereas most Banshees are absolutely beautiful, which is the reason I can´t part (yet).
    I finally sat on a Ripmo last week and agree with you here on the aesthetics. I usually love the way carbon looks but the tube shapes on the Ripmo didn't excite me the way the Prime does. However, I did notice how stretched out the large Ripmo felt compared to the large prime which felt nice. That said, the Ripmo also felt like a lot of bike - it could have been due to the angle of the tubes.

    I wouldn't mind 15-20mm (at most) longer reach on the next gen large. The current model fits pretty darn good with a 50mm stem but I wouldn't mind going to a 35mm stem.

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    Any clues to a spitfire update?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rasta_trail View Post
    Any clues to a spitfire update?
    there is a post on Instagram, about a water bottle... tease...
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    Does it says spitfire somewhere?! That's probably the titan, 160mm 29er...no?

    I hope they give us some infos very fast cause the new ripmo AF seems like a super bike for me!!! They will sell fast...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HH4L View Post
    Does it says spitfire somewhere?! That's probably the titan, 160mm 29er...no?

    I hope they give us some infos very fast cause the new ripmo AF seems like a super bike for me!!! They will sell fast...
    Titan? Any more info on that?

  96. #96
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    I have to admit the new aluminum Ripmo AF that just dropped yesterday is tickling me in all the right places. They have 3K build that looks pretty hard to beat for the price. Still loving my orange Prime but would stilllove to see some new bikes from Banshee.

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    I noticed this image on the new Banshee website. Looks like a nice forging for a vertical shock mount / BB area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazza_wil View Post
    Titan? Any more info on that?
    Not any more than what I've read on this forum...
    https://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bike...e-1111043.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler View Post
    I have to admit the new aluminum Ripmo AF that just dropped yesterday is tickling me in all the right places. They have 3K build that looks pretty hard to beat for the price. Still loving my orange Prime but would stilllove to see some new bikes from Banshee.
    Same here! The carbon one wasn't but this one, yesss!!! Pretty sure it still climbs realllyyyy well but will be better for drops and could put a coil if it doesn't bottom out too easily on them! Front and rear coil on a not too heavy aluminium bike that can climb well, is a dream coming true for me!!

    Buuttt Ibis is still not a nice raw Banshee frame though.... so I guess I'll have to give them a chance and wait a bit more to have at least more infos on geo. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by freyrida View Post
    Beautiful machine but Titan is more than I need.
    Let's see if Prime and Phantom will benefit some new geo.....
    (maybe keeping KS1 susp.)

  102. #102
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    From pics I guess we have reverse compatibility with v2 dropouts and v3 FS models.

  103. #103
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    Only 100 frame sets each for the V3 and Titan? Is Banshee crowd sourcing testing or something?

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    They have released prototypes to selected riders in the past.
    Bet they didn't have to pay for them though.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarKmaN View Post
    Only 100 frame sets each for the V3 and Titan? Is Banshee crowd sourcing testing or something?
    This is fairly average scale of production for us. We are only a small boutique company who normally do batches of 50.

    And yes, generation 2 dropouts carry over to V3's.
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    ........

    And yes, generation 2 dropouts carry over to V3's.

  107. #107
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    I was just joking Keith. I've had a few Banshee's in my lifetime (scythe, rune, rune, rune) and would want nothing more than to have my hands on the new V3 (even though it looks uglier than the current Rune)... perhaps on the 2nd or 3rd production run...

    Btw, What is the weight (without shock) versus the previous Rune? Thanks!

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarKmaN View Post
    I was just joking Keith. I've had a few Banshee's in my lifetime (scythe, rune, rune, rune) and would want nothing more than to have my hands on the new V3 (even though it looks uglier than the current Rune)... perhaps on the 2nd or 3rd production run...

    Btw, What is the weight (without shock) versus the previous Rune? Thanks!
    Rune V3 is 3.9KG (8.5 lbs) Medium black ano frame including Float X2 shock, dropouts w/ axle, and seat post clamp. My rune with solid parts throughout, alloy wheels, tire inserts front and rear, one up edc tool and pedals weighs in at 33.5lbs. I wouldn't want it much lighter to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Rune V3 is 3.9KG (8.5 lbs) Medium black ano frame including Float X2 shock, dropouts w/ axle, and seat post clamp. My rune with solid parts throughout, alloy wheels, tire inserts front and rear, one up edc tool and pedals weighs in at 33.5lbs. I wouldn't want it much lighter to be honest.
    So is another batch of raw Primes with the Titans and Runes?

  110. #110
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! new Banshee RUNE v3

    ((((((((( FAKAWI )))))))))))

    ((((((((( FAKAWI )))))))))))

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    This is fairly average scale of production for us. We are only a small boutique company who normally do batches of 50.

    And yes, generation 2 dropouts carry over to V3's.
    Hey Keith, are there some batches V3 Phantoms and Spitfires in the making too ... ?

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    Keith, let's get nerdy.

    Tell us the differences between V2 and V3 Rune from both an engineering and rider perspective please?

    Any chance you will add rear brake tabs for external routing option in the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiebruster View Post
    Keith, let's get nerdy.

    Tell us the differences between V2 and V3 Rune from both an engineering and rider perspective please?

    Any chance you will add rear brake tabs for external routing option in the future?
    Well, in terms of linkage, you can see in most the press releases the basic linkage graphs. Overall... the linkages are similar, the 2 biggest differences are reduces antirise, and more progressive (more coil friendly) leverage curve. But its how these work in harmony with the geometry that really matters. The V3 feels most different in terms of geometry... honestly it took me a few rides to get used to steeper seat angle and longer reach, but once I started to gel with it I couldn't go back. It certainly helps with climbing, and on the descents it makes you feel more 'in' the bike, and gives a real sense of confidence at speed. Don't worry tho, they are still really fun bikes! The lower center of gravity and increased stiffness around the BB really helps with efficiency and control through rough off camber stuff.

    I've always been an advocate for external cable routing... and kept it on most protos... but it simply doesn't work well with the design (unless you run under downtube, and nobody wants that),a nd internal really is very easy to install and cable runs very straight and almost no stretch at any location throughout travel.
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  114. #114
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    Any short travel bikes in the works

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Well, in terms of linkage, you can see in most the press releases the basic linkage graphs. Overall... the linkages are similar, the 2 biggest differences are reduces antirise, and more progressive (more coil friendly) leverage curve. But its how these work in harmony with the geometry that really matters. The V3 feels most different in terms of geometry... honestly it took me a few rides to get used to steeper seat angle and longer reach, but once I started to gel with it I couldn't go back. It certainly helps with climbing, and on the descents it makes you feel more 'in' the bike, and gives a real sense of confidence at speed. Don't worry tho, they are still really fun bikes! The lower center of gravity and increased stiffness around the BB really helps with efficiency and control through rough off camber stuff.

    I've always been an advocate for external cable routing... and kept it on most protos... but it simply doesn't work well with the design (unless you run under downtube, and nobody wants that),a nd internal really is very easy to install and cable runs very straight and almost no stretch at any location throughout travel.
    Under the downtube does suck! Thanks for the insight - bikes look great!

  116. #116
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    stitched mouth on Phantom and Prime!!!!?????

    I'm so impatient !!!!

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    Or even a dark side or legend?

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    Just to remind you that I'm only one guy who designs all bikes from start to finish while also managing every other aspect of the business... and I will not rush designs!
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    Only the one of you? Well what are you doing slacking off on a MTB forum? Get back to your workstation, these beauties don't design themselves. ;^)

    Joking...

    Keen and enthusiastic cats are keen and enthusiastic!

  120. #120
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    Haha, yes master!!!
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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Just to remind you that I'm only one guy who designs all bikes from start to finish while also managing every other aspect of the business... and I will not rush designs!
    mmmmhhh.....man or octopus????

    ...this means that I have some more time to enjoy my 2013 Prime !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Just to remind you that I'm only one guy who designs all bikes from start to finish while also managing every other aspect of the business... and I will not rush designs!
    Keith, so where do I submit my resume showcasing my Solidworks design skills?

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by neil_240; 09-26-2019 at 04:30 AM.

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    I commend your work Keith, so tired of these mass produced plastic bikes.... keep up the good work and fight!!!

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    it simply doesn't work well with the design (unless you run under downtube, and nobody wants that),and internal really is very easy to install and cable runs very straight and almost no stretch at any location throughout travel.
    What about under the top tube, over and/or under the seat stays? I mean in a good percentage of recent bike reviews I've read, the reviewer mentions rattling, or general annoyances about with the cable/hose routing, whatever the frame. So why is there a general push for internal routing? It really adds nothing to a frame, but annoying faffing about.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by juanbeegas View Post
    What about under the top tube, over and/or under the seat stays? I mean in a good percentage of recent bike reviews I've read, the reviewer mentions rattling, or general annoyances about with the cable/hose routing, whatever the frame. So why is there a general push for internal routing? It really adds nothing to a frame, but annoying faffing about.
    Tried those, looked messy and lots of baggy cables as suspension moved. Honestly I was very anti internal cable routing... until I tried it. Tool make 15 mins longer to build my bike, not too big a deal.
    Last edited by builttoride; 09-19-2019 at 01:42 AM.
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    *speculation time*

    Metrics shocks might have made the Prime/Spitfire redundant. On paper, it looks like both the Titan and Rune V3 could be run with 205x57.5 shock and a ~150mm fork, which would give you travel numbers similar to the Prime/Spitfire, along with a more trail-oriented head angle.

    Selling "trail" versions of the Titan/Rune with a different stroke shock might make more economic sense for Banshee than engineering whole new framesets.

    *end speculation*

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoCo View Post
    *speculation time*

    Metrics shocks might have made the Prime/Spitfire redundant. On paper, it looks like both the Titan and Rune V3 could be run with 205x57.5 shock and a ~150mm fork, which would give you travel numbers similar to the Prime/Spitfire, along with a more trail-oriented head angle.

    Selling "trail" versions of the Titan/Rune with a different stroke shock might make more economic sense for Banshee than engineering whole new framesets.

    *end speculation*
    Keep in mind that Phantom and Spitfire have different tubing than Prime and Rune, or now Titan and Rune. Toptube and downtube are lighter and more slim compared. Also different overall geometry. Plus different mini-links and different geometry rear triangle resulting in different suspension linkage. I think just a little less shock-stroke and/or shorter shock doesn´t do the real ticket ...

    Let´s see and wait how Banshee is going to revise a possible V3 Phantom and Spitfire. They can go all in with KS2 link, new tubing and all geometry and linkage overwork.
    Not sure about a revised Prime, as the Titan looks like being it´s successor ... ??

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Tride those, looked messy and lots of baggy cables as suspension moved. Honestly I was very anti internal cable routing... until I tried it. Tool make 15 mins longer to build my bike, not too big a deal.
    Man, I've been riding your bikes since the Wildcard and I've owned and ridden a whole bunch of different Banshees from that time. I'll continue doing so because I respect what you're doing with Banshee, I mean what other company actually takes the time to hang out and talk to their customers personally(plus goddamn, the raw and stealth frames are the nicest looking finishes available out there), but I stand by what I've said about internal routing.
    I'm really looking forward to changes, if any, to the Spitfire.

  129. #129
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    I'm just sizzling about thinking if a new Prime will ever pop out, and in case will it bear Titan & Rune susp. design or will keep something similar to actual???

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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    I'm just sizzling about thinking if a new Prime will ever pop out, and in case will it bear Titan & Rune susp. design or will keep something similar to actual???
    IF there are new revised Primes, Phantoms or Spitfires in the making I´m pretty much sure those will get the new KS2-Link suspension-layout too. To me it doesn't´t make sense to tweak only geometry as an update, but go all in through the whole line-up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    IF there are new revised Primes, Phantoms or Spitfires in the making I´m pretty much sure those will get the new KS2-Link suspension-layout too. To me it doesn't´t make sense to tweak only geometry as an update, but go all in through the whole line-up.
    Yeah that seems super reasonable. New Titan and revise the Rune, the rest will follow suit in normal update cycles?

    I actually sold my Prime and went full time single speed hardtail. Enjoying the change of pace (both figuratively and literally, LOL), but always will have an eye for Keith's bikes. As my riding style has changed, I am keen for a revised Phantom the most!! Update the short travel ripper

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoCo View Post
    *speculation time*

    Metrics shocks might have made the Prime/Spitfire redundant. On paper, it looks like both the Titan and Rune V3 could be run with 205x57.5 shock and a ~150mm fork, which would give you travel numbers similar to the Prime/Spitfire, along with a more trail-oriented head angle.

    Selling "trail" versions of the Titan/Rune with a different stroke shock might make more economic sense for Banshee than engineering whole new framesets.

    *end speculation*
    Looks like I got this wrong:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/banshe...re-frames.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoCo View Post
    Hmm.. less travel than previously on the Spitty.
    Was looking forward to updating from my V2.1 but I'm not so sure now.
    Don't think I'm out-riding it but would I go even faster on a Rune?
    I'm deffo not the fastest up a hill but love smashing it on the way down.

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