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  1. #1
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    Another little detail...

    ...that makes it extremely difficult to consider moving to a different bike/suspension design. I have been aboard my Rune V2 for nearly two years. There are really zero downsides to it outside of the weight. This is the only thing I've ever heard/read anyone ever complain about regarding Banshees.

    Nevertheless, after two years of being assaulted by the nonstop shiny new rigs out there one's gaze begins to wander. Last year I tested a Nomad 3. That rig was a sexy beast, but the climbing issue I mentioned was irksome.

    VitalMTB just reviewed the new Bronson. Again, this a bada$$-looking rig and will certainly get many mtb magpies fired up. However, I found it curious that the testers found the same thing regarding the Bronson's climbing... My comments below:


    [QUOTE]I believe this issue: "On the Bronson, it pretty quickly became apparent that square-edge bump compliance was still a hiccup, despite the use of FOX's new EVOL air can. This was most noticeable while climbing over ledges in technical terrain, even at the generous side of the sag recommendations. The sometimes harsh hang up feel and feedback in the pedals made climbing challenging features a little more difficult as we'd occasionally break traction, bounce about on the seat, or lose footing." is not from the shock, but the VPP design itself. Every VPP bike I've thrown a leg over does this. In the past I never really thought about it. I just thought all bikes did this. This is certainly true on hardtails and most single-pivot rigs. It is by no means a deal breaker, but...there are bikes that do not do this and climb much better because of it, weight be damned. I am no ace at climbing, but I have come to find twin-link bikes where the links are rotating in the same direction (DW-link, Maestro, KS, etc) do not exhibit this behavior. My daily driver is a Banshee Rune V2 and the thing that is the most surprising about it is it's climbing prowess in technical terrain. Sure, it's a tank however it motors up and over square-edged stuff without ever getting hung up. This was demonstrated to me last year when I took a Nomad 3 and my Rune out on the same loop in Pisgah back-to-back. The Nomad was three pounds lighter and cost $5K more than my Banshee. Their geometry in size medium is nearly identical with no more than a half a degree or a few millimeters difference. The clincher was that the Nomad did the exact thing mentioned here with the Bronson. I had seriously considered "upgrading" to a N3. It's a killer rig, light, badass looking, yada, yada however I cannot get past that suspension issue. I have come to really appreciate not getting stuck on roots and rocks while ascending and staying on the gas while I'm ready to puke up a lung. Sure, I'd like to shave some weight off my bike, but not for that. I would kill to have Banshee release a plastic Rune, but for now I will wait and see./QUOTE]

    I thought maybe I was just the princess noticing the proverbial climbing "pea" on those bikes, but apparently I am not alone. Who else has noticed this? As noted, I keep riding along on my Rune. The only rig out there now that IMHO would be more than just a lateral (or regressive) move might be an Insurgent. I would throw a Following in there too, but that's a whole different animal.
    Last edited by HELLBELLY; 03-07-2016 at 06:09 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Coming from a dw link hd3, i can say the climbing abilities excel in different ways. Hd3 Just wanted to go forward. That's a good thing! I could climb things faster than any bike I've ridden before. The ks link though does something in the bump compliance that I don't think I experienced with the hd3.

    When I had the knolly, I have to admit it's the only time I truly felt in the bike. Hd3 definitely felt on the bike. The rune does a nice middle ground.

    No ride time on the insurgent, one ride on the following but not really enough to give a proper perspective. Wreckoning does look insane though.

    I think I've found my all mtn rig for the time being. Yes it weighs like a tank but I built mine to handle the downs and that it certainly does. Just slapped on fox x2 shock and that has liven that bike up incredibly...

    Let us know what you end up deciding on. As loyal as I am to banshee now, I'm always interested at the next bike that comes around!
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    Coming from a dw link hd3, i can say the climbing abilities excel in different ways. Hd3 Just wanted to go forward. That's a good thing! I could climb things faster than any bike I've ridden before. The ks link though does something in the bump compliance that I don't think I experienced with the hd3.
    I have a pal that had an HD3 and he said it was "XC fast". Unfortunately, it did not hold up to really aggressive riding and he ended up breaking two frames. Durability issues aside, it would be tough for me to ride one after my time on the Rune with it's far more aggressive geometry that I have come to really like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    When I had the knolly, I have to admit it's the only time I truly felt in the bike. Hd3 definitely felt on the bike. The rune does a nice middle ground.

    No ride time on the insurgent, one ride on the following but not really enough to give a proper perspective. Wreckoning does look insane though.

    I think I've found my all mtn rig for the time being. Yes it weighs like a tank but I built mine to handle the downs and that it certainly does. Just slapped on fox x2 shock and that has liven that bike up incredibly...

    Let us know what you end up deciding on. As loyal as I am to banshee now, I'm always interested at the next bike that comes around!
    That's an interesting point on the Knolly. I've never ridden any FSR/Horst-link bikes I liked. While they do possess that "in the bike" feel, I have never cared for their vague if not mushy feel. I know, I know it must be set up right, blah, blah, blah, however I know how to set up my suspension and they just don't do it for me. I would imagine the additional linkage on the Knolly changes it completely, but then I become leary of the additional pivots and added complexity.

    Speaking of complexity or lack thereof, Banshee's simplicity and ease of maintenance is big plus for me too. You can get the bearings for next to nothing and replacing them is simple. This among the many factors is big reason it is making it tough for me to consider anything else. I've had a few offers on my bike, but like I said there isn't much out there that would truly improve on these aforementioned traits. Then of course I go ride it and it smokes so maybe I should just STFU and ride.
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  4. #4
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    The hd3 certainly had its issues which is why I'm no longer riding her. Ibis is hands down the best customer service experience I've ever had though. Also with a angleset, the geo was altered to cater to the type of riding I do.

    Knolly actually was not as bad as you think when it came to maintenance. Had I chosen a chilcotin from the beginning I would prob still have her in my garage but I was too aggressive with the endorphin and ended up breaking it.

    Rune is pretty bombproof so far! Hard for me to convince you to go elsewhere!
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  5. #5
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    How about that regressive Rune suspension? Blowing thru travel much?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    How about that regressive Rune suspension? Blowing thru travel much?
    Uh...no. The Rune ramps up at the end of it's travel. I use all of the travel on big hits which is probably less than 15% of any ride. It never feels harsh on bottoming out either.

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  7. #7
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    I have noticed the same "issue" with VPP bikes. On the longer travel bikes I also noticed it in coasting situations from time to time. I have owned a Blur LTC, Nomad Carbon, and a Tallboy over the past years. On the Blur LTC and Tallboy the issue was noticeable, on the Nomad though it was VERY noticeable.

    I recently switched to a Prime and this issue is all but gone. I do notice it every so slightly in the worse situations, slow climbing large square edge bump. Also nice that the Prime rips downhill as well.

    I was a plagued by the carbon bug for far too long. Not that I wouldn't ride carbon again
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  8. #8
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    Good to know. Does it suit a coil shock?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HELLBELLY View Post
    Uh...no. The Rune ramps up at the end of it's travel. I use all of the travel on big hits which is probably less than 15% of any ride. It never feels harsh on bottoming out either.

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    The positive slope at the end of the tune actually tells you that it's regressive. That's not to say that coil shocks are out because of that though. I had a CCdb coil cs on mine before switching to a x2. I really had no complaints, I just wanted to try the hype on the x2. The support was all there on my coil.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    The positive slope at the end of the tune actually tells you that it's regressive. That's not to say that coil shocks are out because of that though. I had a CCdb coil cs on mine before switching to a x2. I really had no complaints, I just wanted to try the hype on the x2. The support was all there on my coil.

    The Darkside is nearly identical to Rune albeit with slacker angles and more travel. I cannot imagine it's coil shock behaving that much differently other than being more linear. Thus, there is no reason to think a coil shock would not perform well on a Rune. Like you said, the DB coil on yours worked without complaint. I am guessing the X2 probably feels very similar to a DB Air. As I understand it a former CC employee/designer went to work with Fox and had a hand it's design. They are eerily similar in layout. However, since Cane Creek is just up the road from me here in Georgia, I will be sticking with them.
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  11. #11
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    Another little detail...

    It's weird I had that stipulation as well but whatever fox did, It has much more midstroke support when I have the beginning and end feel dialed down. I think it's quite minimal difference in feeling ImO if you really know how to tune your db well! For you, that makes total sense!
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  12. #12
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    I've got a Prime. Very happy with it and won't touch anything else, other than getting a backup frame, which I probably won't ever need.

    Overall I find the pedaling excellent. I will say that the DW bikes I've experienced will pedal over edges and bigger rocks just a little better than my Prime. They feel a little more fluid in that situation. But they also bob a bit on flats with an open shock and sag a bit more when climbing. I can get away with a pretty darn low bottom bracket on the Prime, and oddly, this all-mountain bike doesn't bob for me even on the street. I've got a CCDB air, and it's tune-able enough to do whatever I want going down. Which is very little HS compression damping and spacers to prevent bottoming.

    Just tonight I laid my Prime down on a pile of rocks. Messed up my leg a big, but didn't think twice about the frame. Anyone that wants to save 2 pounds with carbon, go for it, but that is not for me. Don't get my wrong I am not totally immune to the seductiveness of carbon, but the way I treat bikes, I know better.

    I'm currently running 3.0 Dirt Wizards with the Rune 650B dropouts. The jury is out on that, but any other standard FS 29er you don't even have that option. I think ultimately I will settle on a 2.6ish tire when more are available, and my Prime will handle that no problem.

    Bottom line, Banshee is a company that "gets it" from my perspective. I am lucky enough that I found the bike that I would have designed for myself if I could have.

  13. #13
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    I have to agree with jackl here. Banshee is just bombproof. Just yesterday I stripped some components apart to grease and loctite again because it about that time for maintenance and everything on my rune was still in great shape. Looks like I acquired my high maintenance schedule off the plastic bikes I was riding prior.
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  14. #14
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    Absolutely agree with Jackl on this, never, ever, have I even thought of looking at the frame when I've taken a crash or laid it down, not on any of my Banshees. Have always said that I could chuck my Prime off a cliff, go find it and just replace the broken components, no worries about the frame

    Then of course there's the versatility of them, with the modern replaceable drop outs, despite being a bit heavier solution for geo adjustment, gives you the ability to pick what ever axle configuration you wish and when/if a new standard comes out, all you have to do is buy the new drop outs when Banshee has made them and bolt them on.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I've got a Prime. Very happy with it and won't touch anything else, other than getting a backup frame, which I probably won't ever need.

    Overall I find the pedaling excellent. I will say that the DW bikes I've experienced will pedal over edges and bigger rocks just a little better than my Prime. They feel a little more fluid in that situation. But they also bob a bit on flats with an open shock and sag a bit more when climbing. I can get away with a pretty darn low bottom bracket on the Prime, and oddly, this all-mountain bike doesn't bob for me even on the street. I've got a CCDB air, and it's tune-able enough to do whatever I want going down. Which is very little HS compression damping and spacers to prevent bottoming.

    Just tonight I laid my Prime down on a pile of rocks. Messed up my leg a big, but didn't think twice about the frame. Anyone that wants to save 2 pounds with carbon, go for it, but that is not for me. Don't get my wrong I am not totally immune to the seductiveness of carbon, but the way I treat bikes, I know better.

    I'm currently running 3.0 Dirt Wizards with the Rune 650B dropouts. The jury is out on that, but any other standard FS 29er you don't even have that option. I think ultimately I will settle on a 2.6ish tire when more are available, and my Prime will handle that no problem.

    Bottom line, Banshee is a company that "gets it" from my perspective. I am lucky enough that I found the bike that I would have designed for myself if I could have.

    Agree 100%. Banshee definitely gets it. I've met tons of people who ride or have ridden them and NO ONE has ever had anything negative to say about them. If not for the Rune's weight it would be at the top of the enduro pile. As is it already out-pedals most of them and descends with the ground leveling authority of DH sled.

    Are you running those Dirt Wizards on 26" rims ala the Surly Instigator 2.0 or 27.5" ones? I demoed an Instigator last summer and loved it. I had an Instigator 1.0 for over 13 years and it ruled as a do-it-all trail/jump/beater/in between other bikes bike. I hope to score something like it or a mother-trucking 29er eventually.
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  16. #16
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    Dirt wizards in 26*2.75 is like 26+ !!!! I love it. Does it have enough space in a Spitfire ?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HELLBELLY View Post

    Are you running those Dirt Wizards on 26" rims ala the Surly Instigator 2.0 or 27.5" ones? I demoed an Instigator last summer and loved it. I had an Instigator 1.0 for over 13 years and it ruled as a do-it-all trail/jump/beater/in between other bikes bike. I hope to score something like it or a mother-trucking 29er eventually.
    Oh no, these are 29x3.0 Dirt Wizards. They are actually one of the smaller 29+ tires. The casing is probably more like a 2.75, but the knobs are huge. The Rune 650B dropouts allow them to fit. Actually I did one ride with the standard dropouts, but my new Dirt Wizard was growing during the ride, and was rubbing by the end of the ride. The 650B dropouts addressed that.

    The traction is off the chart on these tires. Handling is good at times, but a bit awkward at others. Basically the low pressures that give such great benefits at low speed allow the tire to get kind of squishy at high speed.

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