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  1. #1
    Zipper
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    New question here. Where Are All The "Jerk Lawers"

    I know this isn't bike related,other than being posted by a bike rider. But I need advice...
    I have been off work for 16 months because of the medical situation with my leg( most of you have seen the pics). Now I'm trying to get a job since I have been released to go back to work and am getting the same thing from everywhere I apply, "Oh you've been off work for 16 months, we cant hire you". I want to believe there is something that can be done to counter this but my brain is mush from beating my head against the wall with so many company's.
    PLEASE HELP
    Zipper aka Rob

  2. #2
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    That's a new one to me What type of field are you in?

  3. #3
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    not an attorney....but that does not sound right to me....




  4. #4
    Zipper
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt
    What type of field are you in?
    I'm in the trucking industry, but have gotten that across the board.
    Zipper aka Rob

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtcha
    I'm in the trucking industry, but have gotten that across the board.
    Do they think you forgot how to drive?

    Just an idea, you may look into some kind of refresher course. Not that you donít know how to drive but it would get you some recent hours behind the wheel. Anything courses offered on the cheap by the community colleges?

  6. #6
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    The issue, based on what the OP posted, is likely more along the lines of: "What have you been doing the last 16 months? In prison? Lazy?"

    Obviously not saying those are accurate, but employers generally like to see a consistent work history with no unusual gaps.

    To the OP: Is there a way to account positively for that time (ie. you weren't justing watching Oprah and eating bonbons) without lying? Not sure exactly what a lawyer is going to do for you, unless you believe you're being discriminated against.
    d

  7. #7
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    You shouldn't have to prove anything and it's nobody's business what you do with your time. What if he was traveling for a year or more? 16 months isn't that long of time to be without work. It shouldn't be assumed you were in jail or are lazy. Not working does not always equal lazy.

  8. #8
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    I would include the injury rehab as part of your resume just to fill in the blanks...that way the "watchin Oprah, eatin bonbons" image does not come up. hard to fault someone for being down because of an injury. Bottom line.....don't have a blank in the timeline as Blatant says.




  9. #9
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    Although I am not an employment attorney, I am a jerk attorney that knows enough to be dangerous.

    The issue here is probably not a legal one. In order to prevail in a discrimination case, the employer must discriminate based upon a protected class. These are race, religion, gender, disability and perhaps age. Without getting into detail, unless these potential employers are refusing to hire you because of discrimination based on one of the above protected classes, there is nothing to be done legally. You could possibly argue disability based on your prior injury, but it seems you are not currently disabled in any way.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    You shouldn't have to prove anything and it's nobody's business what you do with your time. What if he was traveling for a year or more? 16 months isn't that long of time to be without work. It shouldn't be assumed you were in jail or are lazy. Not working does not always equal lazy.
    When I apply for a job, every potential employer wants to know exactly what I have been doing with my time. A 16 month gap in work history needs to be filled with some explanation. An injury is precisely the kind of explanation that should work.

    I am not sure if this issue is coming up pre-interview or not, but in my profession I would address this in a cover letter sent with my resume and then at the interview.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    You shouldn't have to prove anything and it's nobody's business what you do with your time. What if he was traveling for a year or more? 16 months isn't that long of time to be without work. It shouldn't be assumed you were in jail or are lazy. Not working does not always equal lazy.
    I have done probably 15 interviews in the past year, at least 50 in my career and another 15 as a candidate. If I see a gap, I want to know why. The fact is its unusual - not bad, but not typical. if someone says "i had a phat contract, then took time off to be with my family" that is fine. but are you gonna do it again? Or yourself saying hey i wanted to travel - np, are you going away again soon? If someone is out of the field for awhile, in software it calls into question how relevant their experience may be. It may suggest a personnel issue that could affect their work performance. If someone such as the OP said he was injured, I'd probably also ask how, was it work related, was it a freak coincidence or are you a pro DHr who might miss more work? hell yeah I am going to ask. My work record and decision-making are reflected in those i hire, and i owe a lot more to my team than to a stranger in an interview room. We probably interview ~10 people for 1 position, and scan 3x the resumes that get past our personnel dept, cause training and firing someone hurts your existing people's productivity and is costly. if I make a bad hire, I'm going to be working harder to pick up the slack. Interviewing is a pain it takes a lot of time, but you get better teammates if you invest in it.

    To the OP - hopefully i didn't sound like an ahole, and gave you some perspective on the person across the table. Make your injury fit into the narrative of your positive work history, make the interviewer confident in you, and that should be good. Good luck!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    When I apply for a job, every potential employer wants to know exactly what I have been doing with my time. A 16 month gap in work history needs to be filled with some explanation. An injury is precisely the kind of explanation that should work.

    I am not sure if this issue is coming up pre-interview or not, but in my profession I would address this in a cover letter sent with my resume and then at the interview.
    what if you just didn't feel like working for a year?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    what if you just didn't feel like working for a year?
    nah, man. it is all about serving the Man here. you cannot slack off, that is un-American.

  14. #14
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    then you run the risk of your potential employer coming to the conclusion that you are a sack of.....sad, but true. Just ask yourself this....would you hire George Costanza after "The summer of George"?




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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    nah, man. it is all about serving the Man here. you cannot slack off, that is un-American.
    Why is not working always associated with slacking off?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    what if you just didn't feel like working for a year?
    that would not be a problem if I was hiring for a contract, but if it was contract-to-hire or perm, you would have to convince me that it was not going to happen again in the next 5 yrs. It would certainly be something that would count against you if all else was equal with another candidate. Just telling it like it is...
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Why is not working always associated with slacking off?

    it is a perception that many have. 'not working', in the eyes of many, is associated with laziness, distrust, low productivity, and a general lackadaisical view of life. I do not agree. Some of the most productive people that I have hired take regular sabbaticals. It is regenerative and healthy to take an extended break. Life is not all about work.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    that would not be a problem if I was hiring for a contract, but if it was contract-to-hire or perm, you would have to convince me that it was not going to happen again in the next 5 yrs. It would certainly be something that would count against you if all else was equal with another candidate. Just telling it like it is...



    Then I think that's discrimination. I shouldn't have to prove or convince you of anything. That's what I have a resume and professional references for. I only work contract jobs for that very reason. I really don't see how it makes a difference other than it looks good.



    (just debating here)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Then I think that's discrimination. I shouldn't have to prove or convince you of anything. That's what I have a resume and professional references for. I only work contract jobs for that very reason. I really don't see how it makes a difference other than it looks good.
    you don't have to prove anything to me about yourself as a person, but you absolutely have to out-compete the other candidates for a role of a full-time reliable guy. That included competency, compatibility and potential. For a position with a learning curve, you are more valuable if you will stick around. Your resume gets you the phone interview, that's all.

    I've done contract, and its a different gig. Nothing wrong with it if it suits you. The assignments and expectations are different. I don't expect a contractor to come in and fundamentally add value to my team's strategic position or products - I expect them to do a task that someone has boxed up for them, then leave. They are being evaluated and compensated based only on their current skill set, not additional value-add and institutional expertise that comes with being part of a team over time.

    A contractor is not invested in a company, do you expect a company to become invested in you? If it fits you then that's awesome - its just different ways of getting paid.
    Last edited by chollaball; 01-15-2009 at 02:52 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    It is regenerative and healthy to take an extended break. Life is not all about work.
    I totally agree with that statement! Seems like an explanation of your injury to a prospective employer would suffice and account for your time unemployed. I've conducted many interviews in the last few years, and anytime I see a large gap of time unemployed with no explanation as to what caused it I wonder if there's a performance issue or motivational issue there. If there is a logical reason for it, no problem.

    Oh man..........I just realized I agreed with something Yetisurly said................

  21. #21
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    I wanna just sit on a couch watching Oprah and eating bonbons! Well, maybe not watch the O but the bon-bons...absolutely!

    This fat cat has it made! oops...sorry...I errrr...hijacked. punish me...
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    I wanna just sit on a couch watching Oprah and eating bonbons! Well, maybe not watch the O but the bon-bons...absolutely!

    This fat cat has it made! oops...sorry...I errrr...hijacked. punish me...

    I don't think that they make bon-bons any longer as you may have known them.

  23. #23
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    I generally agree with Cholla from the perspective of a hiring manager. I would want someone to account for the time in that it was a valid reason (medical) or the time contributed to their potential as an employee (training/school). On a personal level, I don't care what they did, but as someone who is going to pay and invest in this person, I'd want to ensure there wasn't any 'residual risk' from the absense or indicators of a 'high risk' employee, especially if I have a lot of other candidates who all accounted fully for the time.

    So, as mentioned above, I'd include in a cover letter that it was for injury/rehab etc. I believe an employer CANNOT ask about medical history, but you might want to bring it up yourself to assure them that its behind you and won't be an ongoing issue. A lot of companies might not hire if they think you'll be a drag on insurance/medical costs...legally i think its prohibited, but its one of those things that is likely talked about 'off the record'.

    On another note, could it be a union issue?? I know nothing about unions, so that may be a dumb question.....
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    you don't have to prove anything to me about yourself as a person, but you absolutely have to out-compete the other candidates for a role of a full-time reliable guy. That included competency, compatibility and potential. For a position with a learning curve, you are more valuable if you will stick around. Your resume gets you the phone interview, that's all.

    I've done contract, and its a different gig. Nothing wrong with it if it suits you. The assignments and expectations are different. I don't expect a contractor to come in and fundamentally add value to my team's strategic position or products - I expect them to do a task that someone has boxed up for them, then leave. They are being evaluated and compensated based only on their current skill set, not additional value-add and institutional expertise that comes with being part of a team over time.

    A contractor is not invested in a company, do you expect a company to become invested in you?
    I know for myself that I tend to slack off more when I am a staff employee. As a freelancer, I bring 100% everyday I work because I get to make my own schedule and enjoy time off during the week. No company is really going to invest in you anyways. Its your responsibility to keep up with technology and software upgrades. In the visual effects field you make more as freelancer than you would as a staff employee. Your resume and reel are usually the only thing you need to get a job, no matter how much time has lapsed in between gigs.

  25. #25
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    So yeah, again today I called 3 other trucking firms trying to find out if they would hire me.
    Got the same thing even though I explained that I had not worked in 16 months due to an injury not on the job and that I had finally been released to go back to work.

    This is a real conundrum.
    Zipper aka Rob

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Then I think that's discrimination. I shouldn't have to prove or convince you of anything. That's what I have a resume and professional references for. I only work contract jobs for that very reason. I really don't see how it makes a difference other than it looks good.



    (just debating here)
    It is discrimination. Legal discrimination.

    People may not like it, but it is reality. Indeed, I don't agree with it, but I have had to deal with it often and directly. Lawyer applicants are judged based on all sorts of crazy stuff. Gaps in work history. The law school attended. Grades. Whether your shoes are shined at the interview.

    I myself am part of this mess. Although I am not a law school snob or pedigree jacka$$, if I find one mistake on a resume I am reviewing, be it a misplaced comma or even two spaces where one space should be, I chuck the resume in the trash. I suck at spelling, but in my career if your resume has a mistake, the consequences can be serious.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtcha
    I know this isn't bike related,other than being posted by a bike rider. But I need advice...
    I have been off work for 16 months because of the medical situation with my leg( most of you have seen the pics). Now I'm trying to get a job since I have been released to go back to work and am getting the same thing from everywhere I apply, "Oh you've been off work for 16 months, we cant hire you". I want to believe there is something that can be done to counter this but my brain is mush from beating my head against the wall with so many company's.
    PLEASE HELP
    I have a really stupid question: but what can a jerk lawyer do?
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  28. #28
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    I suck at spelling, but in my career if your resume has a mistake, the consequences can be serious.
    Too many commas can be serious too!
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  29. #29
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    If I interviewed someone and they told me they 'didn't feel like working' for a year or so... I'd really question the candidates passion for their chosen profession. Sure, its none of my business, but that puts up a red flag for any employer.

    In the case of having an employment gap due to an injury, you're doing the right thing being honest and upfront about the 16 months off. I think its more to do with this crummy economy than the supposed discriminatory hiring practice. Many of my clients SAY they have a job opening, but the majority don't have the BUDGET to pull the trigger on hiring when we find them.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    You shouldn't have to prove anything and it's nobody's business what you do with your time. What if he was traveling for a year or more? 16 months isn't that long of time to be without work. It shouldn't be assumed you were in jail or are lazy. Not working does not always equal lazy.
    And just to be clear -- as it appears reading comprehension isn't a strong suit in some cases -- I never suggested the OP was lazy or in prison or an Oprah fan or liked bonbons. I stated -- pretty clearly I thought -- that he needed to be accountable in a positive way for the "missing" time as hiring staff may assume the worst if not provided an alternate explanation.

    If you're in a position where you feel you don't need to be accountable or to explain your actions, well, rock on, Che.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linoleum
    If I interviewed someone and they told me they 'didn't feel like working' for a year or so... I'd really question the candidates passion for their chosen profession. Sure, its none of my business, but that puts up a red flag for any employer.

    In the case of having an employment gap due to an injury, you're doing the right thing being honest and upfront about the 16 months off. I think its more to do with this crummy economy than the supposed discriminatory hiring practice. Many of my clients SAY they have a job opening, but the majority don't have the BUDGET to pull the trigger on hiring when we find them.

    dude, its a freaking job. It's purpose is to pay the bills, not be your passion.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtcha
    So yeah, again today I called 3 other trucking firms trying to find out if they would hire me.
    Got the same thing even though I explained that I had not worked in 16 months due to an injury not on the job and that I had finally been released to go back to work.

    This is a real conundrum.
    I am wondering if this has something to do with the economy. My pops is a trucker (he is not an independent though) and he says it is slow, slow, slow. Could be just an excuse?
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  33. #33
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    I'm wondering if the OP treats his potential employers like he does the people he request input from ... "Jerk Employers" are not likely to hire you.

  34. #34
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    It may also be somewhat like my job interview/application process. For pilots, you have to usually have a certain amount of experience within the last 90 days or year, regardless of the total experience the job requires.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    I know for myself that I tend to slack off more when I am a staff employee. As a freelancer, I bring 100% everyday I work because I get to make my own schedule and enjoy time off during the week. No company is really going to invest in you anyways. Its your responsibility to keep up with technology and software upgrades. In the visual effects field you make more as freelancer than you would as a staff employee. Your resume and reel are usually the only thing you need to get a job, no matter how much time has lapsed in between gigs.
    jrock you are lucky to have found something you are good at that lets you be happy too! I agree in your specialty its more about the skills than the institutional knowledge. My direction went the opposite of yours - I worked startups etc and developed good skills and work habits, but got tired of becoming an expert in something that might vanish overnight, and not cashing in. So i picked a place where the vibe was startup-like, but stable enough to let me really take advantage of all that "unquantifiable" stuff you pick up when you specialize in a product. in my company, we have such an elaborate and proprietary set of products and unique needs, that the company gains an incredible advantage by its employees getting past the learning curve. So we like to keep our folks around and its so important to get the hire right.

    back to the OP - good luck and vibes to you!
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  36. #36
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    True but passion for the job

    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    dude, its a freaking job. It's purpose is to pay the bills, not be your passion.
    should at least be faked.

    And, it's supply and demand, right now the worker bee is not in the drivers seat but our day will come again.

  37. #37
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    Hmmm

    Since this is an admittedly off-genre thread...

    Does anybody know how to break into the writing field? I'm hoping that there might be a (willing) audience for my bloviations...

    No suggestions? How about a job that pays better than 8.00/hr and won't require that I be enveloped by a 'league of morons'?

    It 'aint easy being a misanthrope, but someone's got to do it...
    Last edited by PatrickNix; 01-20-2009 at 05:03 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Since this is an admittedly off-genre thread...

    Does anybody know how to break into the writing field? I'm hoping that there might be a (willing) audience for my bloviations...

    No suggestions? How about a job that pays better than 8.00/hr and won't require that I be enveloped by a 'league of morons'?

    It 'aint easy being a misanthrope, but someone's got to do it...

    anything over $8.00 an hour automatically qualifies you to be in a 'league of morons'. for example, i worked in the mortgage industry for 7 years, worked with the 10th largest mortgage company in the nation and at the time of my departure (June 07) i was making a hefty amount for my age but i also paid for it by dwelling in exactly a 'league of morons' everyday...it was the same thing....

    now, i work in a completely different and much more 'economically sound' industry but still, i get to deal with morons and self indulgent a-holes everyday (well except my wife).

    it is what it is and if you want to make some money, you have to look past WHO you work with and HOW they act, and just make the best of it...do i like what i do now? its just alright, but its stable, and thats what my family needs....

    to the OP, i hope you find work soon, and have you thought about going and getting a 'temporary' job outside of your industry until you can find a trucking gig?
    ...Dying is the easy part, its living that's the challenge...

  39. #39
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    I'm a moron that works with Exodus

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