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  1. #1
    caninus xerophilous
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    When world collide!

    Or what went down at the NRA pit yesterday afternoon.

    FRW and MTBR-AZ, from recent happenings in this forum it would seem these two would mix like acids and bases. Probably so given the apparent demographic differences between FRW and MTBR-AZ, be it for one thing, we all love to ride bikes.

    The dastardly e-rider formerly known as DHF invited me up to the NRA for a Dirt Jumping clinic. DJ?ing is something most 39 year olds such as myself refrain from for obvious health reasons in addition to the age and cultural differences of those who typically practice that FR skill set.

    So I hooked up with DHF and some of his FRW brethren. I have only good things to say about DHF/Eric in person, like so many of us already know, we project ourselves somewhat differently on the internet and are often oblivious to such. Right from the get go, it was obvious that he was a warm and genuine person. I also can say the same, nothing but good things, about the FRW crowd that showed up as well as DJbiker.

    There was definitely a prevalent attitude permeating the pit, one of a relaxed team spirit. After showing me around the pit Eric and his bud threw down some aerial maneuvers that had me feeling like I was out of my element. I also found the unfamiliar manmade stunts daunting in the stark and unnatural steepness.

    Not making me feel bad or outclassed, I was directed to an intermediate jump on the far side of the pit. I toyed with the approach, not quite getting the nerve to commit to it. Seeing this, Eric and his bud came over and demonstrated the launch and then Eric suggested I follow him off. This worked and I went flying high and landed well. Suddenly it didn?t seem so different from the rock slabs and boulders that we launch off in Tucson.

    I hit the same jump ten or so times building my confidence, refining my skill, and developing my limits. During this time more and more riders were showing up and jelling into the pit's refreshingly friendly atmosphere. I felt completely accepted.

    I watched and learned as these nuts/excellent riders assessed jumps and gaps that they were aspiring to and stroked those that they had mastered. Soon I was following them down and launching off most of the intermediate jumps. I definitely grew as a rider and benefited from their patience and expertise.

    There was something different here than many of the MTBR group gig's that I have had the fortune to attend. The group attitude was more accepting and encouraging. I am not sure why, but it was something I definitely could feel. Maybe it was the lack of competitiveness and personal insecurities; or rather I should say the presence of unassuming mutual support that was prevalent across the board.

    Perhaps the ambience had something to do with the mutual goal at hand, sharing a good time and a good ride. Perhaps this was because no one person would really slow down and affect the ride and enjoyment of the others in the DJ pit format. Perhaps it was because there was an unreachable limit for all the riders there in spite of their skills.

    I felt like a welcomed kid playing blissfully in a playground learning a new game and making new friends. I felt invigorated by the youth at hand and felt the roots of my life that I used to practice when I was a kid playing in the desert, something like what buggaroo wrote of in his post a few weeks ago. Something some of us old foggies here in MTBR-AZ need to feel again.

    I say tear down the wall and leave some of that comfort and ambient fear and bigotry behind. Answer your fears.
    Last edited by SunDog; 05-26-2005 at 10:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Wohoo. So much peace and love. Did you guys "complete" things right there, out in the open, or did you at least find some bushes?

    As far as DHF goes, him in person - is it real or is it Memorex? So Eric, please tell your thoughts of SunDog. Is he handsome?

    PS: Almost forgot. Obligatory "on point" comments as follows:

    1. Great riding pics. Could you please send me the GPS coordinates?
    2. What tires are you using? They look grippy as heck?
    3. Are those authorized jumps? I hope you are not risking the loss of jump access. Better call IBJA.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  3. #3
    caninus xerophilous
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    Thanks for the FRW hospitality.

    You guys definately know how to ride and have a good time.

    It was well worth the drive up just to see the airshow.

    Some serious talent there.

  4. #4
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    Good post.

    I met Eric once, briefly, and got the same vibe from him. Its hard to believe he and DHF are one and the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Or what went down at the NRA pit yesterday afternoon.

    FRW and MTBR-AZ, from recent happenings in this forum it would seem these two would mix like acids and bases. Probably so given the apparent demographic differences between FRW and MTBR-AZ, be it for one thing, we all love to ride bikes.

    The dastardly e-rider formerly known as DHF invited me up to the NRA for a Dirt Jumping clinic. DJ?ing is something most 39 year olds such as myself refrain from for obvious health reasons in addition to the age and cultural differences of those who typically practice that FR skill set.

    So I hooked up with DHF and some of his FRW brethren. I have only good things to say about DHF/Eric in person, like so many of us already know, we project ourselves somewhat differently on the internet and are often oblivious to such. Right from the get go, it was obvious that he was a warm and genuine person. I also can say the same, nothing but good things, about the FRW crowd that showed up as well as DJbiker.

    There was definitely a prevalent attitude permeating the pit, one of a relaxed team spirit. After showing me around the pit Eric and his bud threw down some aerial maneuvers that had me feeling like I was out of my element. I also found the unfamiliar manmade stunts daunting in the stark and unnatural steepness.

    Not making me feel bad or outclassed, I was directed to an intermediate jump on the far side of the pit. I toyed with the approach, not quite getting the nerve to commit to it. Seeing this, Eric and his bud came over and demonstrated the launch and then Eric suggested I follow him off. This worked and I went flying high and landed well. Suddenly it didn?t seem so different from the rock slabs and boulders that we launch off in Tucson.

    I hit the same jump ten or so times building my confidence, refining my skill, and developing my limits. During this time more and more riders were showing up and jelling into the pit's refreshingly friendly atmosphere. I felt completely accepted.

    I watched and learned as these nuts/excellent riders assessed jumps and gaps that they were aspiring to and stroked those that they had mastered. Soon I was following them down and launching off most of the intermediate jumps. I definitely grew as a rider and benefited from their patience and expertise.

    There was something different here than many of the MTBR group gig's that I have had the fortune to attend. The group attitude was more accepting and encouraging. I am not sure why, but it was something I definitely could feel. Maybe it was the lack of competitiveness and personal insecurities; or rather I should say the presence of unassuming mutual support that was prevalent across the board.

    Perhaps the ambience had something to do with the mutual goal at hand, sharing a good time and a good ride. Perhaps this was because no one person would really slow down and affect the ride and enjoyment of the others in the DJ pit format. Perhaps it was because there was an unreachable limit for all the riders there in spite of their skills.

    I felt like a welcomed kid playing blissfully in a playground learning a new game and making new friends. I felt invigorated by the youth at hand and felt the roots of my life that I used to practice when I was a kid playing in the desert, something like what buggaroo wrote of in his post a few weeks ago. Something some of us old foggies here in MTBR-AZ need to feel again.

    I say tear down the wall and leave some of that comfort and ambient fear and bigotry behind. Answer your fears.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by funboarder1971
    Good post.

    I met Eric once, briefly, and got the same vibe from him. Its hard to believe he and DHF are one and the same.
    Can anyone explain this? Is he Japanese? Why two totally different people depending on the media used? Does beer have anything to do with it?

    On Point Point:

    Sunrise/Lost Dog - still dirt.

    Eric, I promise to make a trip to the Pit. Will the Turner be able to handle some stuff out there even if I land hard? I broke one once on a flat smooth trail.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Can anyone explain this? Is he Japanese? Why two totally different people depending on the media used? Does beer have anything to do with it?

    On Point Point:

    Sunrise/Lost Dog - still dirt.

    Eric, I promise to make a trip to the Pit. Will the Turner be able to handle some stuff out there even if I land hard? I broke one once on a flat smooth trail.
    Speaking of your Turner did ya get the Kona?
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB
    Speaking of your Turner did ya get the Kona?
    Not yet. It still was not built as of last week and I have not heard anything. I am sort of just waiting, I don't know why, but maybe I want out.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  8. #8
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Not yet. It still was not built as of last week and I have not heard anything. I am sort of just waiting, I don't know why, but maybe I want out.
    What's up with this? You're getting a new bike? SS? Were you going to tell anyone?

    Stop picking on Lost Dog/Sunrise. In fact, as of now, you are not permitted there. (note to self) I am riding there tomorrow early, but you are not invited.
    Ride more; post less...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Not yet. It still was not built as of last week and I have not heard anything. I am sort of just waiting, I don't know why, but maybe I want out.
    Huh? Not a Stinky, right? Please tell me not a Stinky. A SS right?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Huh? Not a Stinky, right? Please tell me not a Stinky. A SS right?
    So he didn't tell you, either...

    He's being seduced by the dark side...
    Ride more; post less...

  11. #11
    caninus xerophilous
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    I thought Yoda said.......

    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    So he didn't tell you, either...

    He's being seduced by the dark side...
    ....fear leads to the Dark Side.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    ....fear leads to the Dark Side.
    Yea, but isnt the dude who played Yoda also the same dude who played Kermit the Frog, who as we all know rides a SS in The Muppet Movie? Is your head spinning yet?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Yea, but isnt the dude who played Yoda also the same dude who played Kermit the Frog, who as we all know rides a SS in The Muppet Movie? Is your head spinning yet?
    Not only a SS, but a fixey.

    And Dirdir is afraid; very afraid...
    Ride more; post less...

  14. #14
    caninus xerophilous
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    Darn!

    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Yea, but isnt the dude who played Yoda also the same dude who played Kermit the Frog, who as we all know rides a SS in The Muppet Movie? Is your head spinning yet?
    I thought Yoda was real!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    ....fear leads to the Dark Side.
    He also said that having feelings for someone, such as having a spouse and loving them, lead to the dark side. I know this will be deemed un-American, but the moral of Star Wars is - don't fall in love, don't get married and don't have kids, because they all lead to the dark side.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  16. #16
    I railed it like Kong
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    Catch 22

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    He also said that having feelings for someone, such as having a spouse and loving them, lead to the dark side. I know this will be deemed un-American, but the moral of Star Wars is - don't fall in love, don't get married and don't have kids, because they all lead to the dark side.
    You can have them if you don't fear losing them.

    Excuse me, i now have to throw myself in front of a bus for chiming in on a Star Wars hijack.
    I'm UNIQUE... just like everybody else.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkonindustry
    You can have them if you don't fear losing them.

    Excuse me, i now have to throw myself in front of a bus for chiming in on a Star Wars hijack.
    Yah, yah, that is right, as Yoda said, you can't fear losing them. I myself fear not losing them so I am all over the good side. Dark side ain't got nothing on me.

    DHF, you are a hooligan.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  18. #18
    caninus xerophilous
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    Quote Originally Posted by .downhillfaster.
    maybe the rest of the MTBR's shouldn't take my online rants and criticisms so seriously? Just an observation, by goddamn you people are judgemental sometimes. Time to get past this XC vs. FR. vs. DH mentality. I'm all about bringing the AZ clan togerther.

    DHF'r
    Dude, I actually sent myself to the little stuff, I just had to ask you guys for directions and pointers, both of which were given in a kind and unassumptuous manner which set the tone for the rest of the session.

    One of the key points of my post was there was no pressure to step outside of one's self or skill set, which was pretty cool. I am sure there were those here that thought our little meeting was going to be some tough guy shootout, based on how you and I have represented ourselves over the internet.

    Another smaller point that I tried to make was that most of us who post frequently, myself included, do project ourselves differently on the interent, intentional or not. So it's not just about YOU.

    Lastly, all I was trying to say was don't be afraid to mix it up, skill and style wise or socially. The fear part was not about being afraid to get hurt, but about putting pre-conceptions aside and opening up some new portals, hence the Yoda reference of fear leading to the dark side.

    Louis

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by .downhillfaster.
    I'm all about bringing the AZ clan togerther.

    DHF'r
    Great timing dude. It's only like 120 out, and most of the AZ clan is staying inside this summer.

    (Not to sound like an elitist jerk, but the **** and gay stuff is just silly. But I know you are a stand up kind of guy.)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by .downhillfaster.
    And how could you possibly know that?
    Good point. I'm guessing.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by .downhillfaster.
    typical
    Nice try. I ain't going there. It's the new Jeff. No more boat rocking.

  22. #22
    It rains here. :(
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Yea, but isnt the dude who played Yoda also the same dude who played Kermit the Frog, who as we all know rides a SS in The Muppet Movie? Is your head spinning yet?
    I can't believe I know this..or would admit to it.

    Fozzy Bear was Yoda not Kermit. It sux when you reveal part of yourself because you want credit for knowing some pointless bit of info.

    KILL ME NOW!

  23. #23
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    Im a newbie at this game but why such friction between the different riding styles/groups? Maybe I'm just reading more into some of the posts I have read recently! Heck I think getting out and riding in all conditions is a blast. I know this tread was more related to people having fun together, which it great. But just a little curious as to what makes some sore feelings for one style or another. As stated just curious not trying to start anything with anyone here!!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbrous
    I can't believe I know this..or would admit to it.

    Fozzy Bear was Yoda not Kermit. It sux when you reveal part of yourself because you want credit for knowing some pointless bit of info.

    KILL ME NOW!
    And all this time I thought it was Kermit. Thanks for clarifying

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    I�m a newbie at this game but why such friction between the different riding styles/groups? Maybe I'm just reading more into some of the posts I have read recently! Heck I think getting out and riding in all conditions is a blast. I know this tread was more related to people having fun together, which it great. But just a little curious as to what makes some sore feelings for one style or another. As stated just curious not trying to start anything with anyone here!!!!
    There's not. There may be one or two individuals who have a distaste for one or the other, but for the most part, biking is biking, as long as you stay on the trail.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    I?m a newbie at this game but why such friction between the different riding styles/groups? Maybe I'm just reading more into some of the posts I have read recently! Heck I think getting out and riding in all conditions is a blast. I know this tread was more related to people having fun together, which it great. But just a little curious as to what makes some sore feelings for one style or another. As stated just curious not trying to start anything with anyone here!!!!
    That's the $20,000 question. Honestly I don't know why anyone deserves to be criticized for riding ( or not riding!) in a particular way. I think there's more underlying tension having to do with the cultures associated with specific riding styles -- jumpers are knuckleheads, racers are arrogant, weekend riders are sissies, DHers are thugs, etc.

    It's all just poorly veiled bigotry, but there's a lot of that going around these days. Believe me, the big BIG world of cycling does not give a rat's ass about any of this.

    p.
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  27. #27
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Society will always have some with a bias against someone else be it wealth, education or any other reason. Jumper, well I can catch a little air. Racer, not yet and sure the heck would not be arrogant finishing in the back of the pack. Weekend rider, well I get out doing the week also for a few miles. But you could classify me as a sissy I guess. I’m the one looking for oxygen just playing around in Papago! Downhill, love it as it means I already made the climb to the top!

    Like I said I’m new to this game but really enjoy all aspects of it. I would like to hook up with some of you all at some point but I’m just not ready enough and would not want to slow the pack down waiting for me to catch my breath. Plus you all have me thinking about rattle snakes in my sleep! Never seen one in Papago but that is a city park. I’m a native and have seen a few out dirt bike riding in my younger years, but that was out past Lake Pleasant.

    Really would like some input on my Frame Option post! I like Titus because they are local. Landis suggested Foes and many good reports on the Ventana.

    Hope I don’t infringe on the admin rules!

    Since we live in the wonderful state of Arizona we now it gets a little warm. I run an auto a/c forum, www.autoacforum.com. Now I don’t care what type of riding style you prefer if you need a little help with you vehicles a/c please feel free to visit our site. Feel free to mention this site or you are a MTB rider!!!!

    Well yards are mowed and I’m off to the office and to some LBS on Tatum to look at the Ventana line. Hope they have a few frames in stock.

  28. #28
    It rains here. :(
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    I?m a newbie at this game but why such friction between the different riding styles/groups? Maybe I'm just reading more into some of the posts I have read recently! Heck I think getting out and riding in all conditions is a blast. I know this tread was more related to people having fun together, which it great. But just a little curious as to what makes some sore feelings for one style or another. As stated just curious not trying to start anything with anyone here!!!!

    I look at it as the same as freeway traffic. I've had people get mad at me on the road just for going faster than them. (No, I don't speed that much! )Some drivers are d1cks and try to play police roles.

    The best example is the people hanging out in the left lane. I'm behind them and I hang back patiently, they never yield so I pass on the right. Then they speed up and directly block you. This is the most crazy thing I've ever seen but, it happens.

    When dealing with biking:
    People seem to get pissed off at others who don't behave or ride like them. Because someone is different they feel they need to be a d1ck. This is typical human behavior.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by .downhillfaster.
    Glad to have you here. Welcome.

    Don't forget to check out Turners & Santa Cruz as well. The best stocked SC dealer is Adventure Bikes on Alma School & Southern (NEC). As far as Turners, I know DNA Cycles in Mesa has quite a few in stock, but I'm sure there are dealers over in Phoenix that do too.

    DHF
    Thanks, spent some time today at Airpark Bikes. Getting close to deciding on the Intense 5.5 with the Firefly fork. XTR componets and Chris King head and wheel sets. I know this is more then I can use at this point! But I also want more bike then the Trek 8500 has and don?t want to buy a twice again. Only part I still am debating is how to part with $ 4300.00 dollars for a bike without a motor!

  30. #30
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    Total threadjack here, but to the guy thinking about the 5.5 + Firefly: That's probably a good combo! Can I ask what's attracting you to that particular fork?

    I think if I had to do it again I'd get the AM1 or a Fox 36 on my 5.5. I've seen one out there with a Nixon Platinum, which is probably a great choice for the weight but no good for someone at my weight (190ish).

    Note the 5.5 is a comparatively steep-angled race-ish bike. If you're new to biking and want a good do-everything bike I can't recommend it. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably look at a Yeti 575, Foes or Turner 5-Spot.

    p.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by .downhillfaster.
    OR, if I may suggest, you could always look at the Specialized Enduros or the Rocky Mountain Switch...maybe even the Cannondale Prophet?

    I do know a lot of the guys on this board love their 5-Spots, though.

    DHF'r
    Thanks again DHF, I think I will check out these Turners before making a choice. If you have any other suggestions feel free to email me, trb@ackits.com.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Total threadjack here, but to the guy thinking about the 5.5 + Firefly: That's probably a good combo! Can I ask what's attracting you to that particular fork?

    I think if I had to do it again I'd get the AM1 or a Fox 36 on my 5.5. I've seen one out there with a Nixon Platinum, which is probably a great choice for the weight but no good for someone at my weight (190ish).

    Note the 5.5 is a comparatively steep-angled race-ish bike. If you're new to biking and want a good do-everything bike I can't recommend it. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably look at a Yeti 575, Foes or Turner 5-Spot.

    p.
    Paul, I by no means meant to highjack the thread! So feel free to delete any of my posts which as a moderator you feel has distracted from this fine forum!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Paul, I by no means meant to highjack the thread! So feel free to delete any of my posts which as a moderator you feel has distracted from this fine forum!
    Kore Bike Industries in Tempe has Turners (sometimes) built up. Supergo in Chandler carries Turner frames and occasionally builds them up.
    Louis - sorry for the threadjack.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Paul, I by no means meant to highjack the thread! So feel free to delete any of my posts which as a moderator you feel has distracted from this fine forum!
    I'm still kind of interested that you never addressed the question in the thread that you did create regarding your new bike choices. I had observed that you seemed interested in a really nice XC bike, but seemed to be looking to put together a medium weight "trailbike" instead.

    The Intense 5.5 and the Turner 5-Spot (my personal choice in this category) are still bigger travel trail bikes than the nimble XC bike you may have been referring to in your own thread.

    So I am still curious as to whether you are looking at what you really wanted in the first place, or whether the concept has morphed significantly along the way?

    Part of why I ask is because if you really want a "kick-ass XC" bike with FS, the Turner Burner is an awesome bike, and the Chandler SuperGo still has about five of those frames at $850 or so, as long as they had your size, and you would have no reason to get into $4,300 worth of expense.

    Build it up with XT or SRAM components/bits and pieces, Race Face cranks, a Fox or Manitou Fork, etc, and you had better come in at less than $3,000.

    It depends on what you really want, which still isn't entirely clear to me.

    John W.
    Body Armor--Don't Leave Home Without It!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Paul, I by no means meant to highjack the thread! So feel free to delete any of my posts which as a moderator you feel has distracted from this fine forum!
    Threadjacking isn't prohibited or even frowned-upon. I was just commenting that I had, myself, threadjacked by adding to the which-bike-to-buy discussion. It's all good.

    DHF'er made excellent recommendations. And I feel him re. the Turner blahs -- it was one really dumb reason why I went with the 5.5 (i.e. I didn't want to have the same bike as everyone else, even though it is an excellent product).

    I wonder what next year's 5-Spot is going to be? I'm betting the long-travel Blur.

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  36. #36
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    I want a 5 to 6 inch setup. I’m a big guy at 230 plus and deal with diabetes. So I want a daily bike to do local riding which I consider XC stuff. If I’m not using the correct terms I apologize. But knowing myself from my motorcycle desert riding days, as I get some more time riding and skill level improves I will be wanting more bike. I know I will enjoy the harder areas of riding in the future such as the trails on South Mountain.

    There is just so much information between bike shops and the nice people that have responded to my questions. It’s tough to get a real good feeling on which direction to take. When you are looking at this level of bike I’m pretty sure all the manufactures will have a good product.

    Where is SuperGo located? I plan of heading out here in a little bit to DNA cycles.

  37. #37
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    That’s cool, the last thing I want to do is upset the forum!

    As for the fork question I’m still kicking that around if I go with the Intense package. As stated in the other post there is just so much data that can be attained. Main reason for the Firefly set up was AirPark Bikes said frame alone or with the fork same cost. Did not look like a bad option and I do want to make this bike the best I can the first time around without going overboard.

  38. #38
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    Maybe a question nobody's asked you yet: how do you know you want a 5-to-6 inch bike? That's a very specific requirement from someone who doesn't have much experience in the sport.

    Seriously, you can buy/build a much more efficient, lighter, and even cheaper bike in the 3-4 inch range. Since you're a big guy dealing with health issues, I'd personally put a higher premium on efficiency. The type of bike you're talking about takes a lot of strength and experience. More than you may realize, and SPV doesn't make up all the difference.

    John mentioned the Burner -- great ride from a popular company. The Jekyll is another good one, especially matched to a 4" Lefty. Hard to beat the Stumpjumper for the price. Even the Jamis Dakar is a very sweet ride in that category.

    Careful with marketing hype. Bike manufacturers have different, and sometimes incompatible, priorities from actual riders.

    p.
    Last edited by Paul B; 05-29-2005 at 12:21 PM. Reason: p. being anal about his typoes
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    I want a 5 to 6 inch setup. I’m a big guy at 230 plus and deal with diabetes. So I want a daily bike to do local riding which I consider XC stuff. If I’m not using the correct terms I apologize. But knowing myself from my motorcycle desert riding days, as I get some more time riding and skill level improves I will be wanting more bike. I know I will enjoy the harder areas of riding in the future such as the trails on South Mountain.

    There is just so much information between bike shops and the nice people that have responded to my questions. It’s tough to get a real good feeling on which direction to take. When you are looking at this level of bike I’m pretty sure all the manufactures will have a good product.

    Where is SuperGo located? I plan of heading out here in a little bit to DNA cycles.
    trb,

    SuperGo is at Ray Road/Kyrene, about 3 miles east of the I-10/Ray Road interchange. The Burner frames are large and X-Large which could suit you if that was what you were after.

    I appreciate your dilemma in as much as there are many choices, so much information, and everybody you ask has strong, and often divergent opinions.

    Just a suggestion about what you may have "heard". I wouldn't be so quick to discard consideration of the Titus line of bikes, for example, due to what you may have heard. If you were going by what you would have "heard" from me, Titus would be a top line of bikes to consider.

    Good luck.

    John W.
    Body Armor--Don't Leave Home Without It!

  40. #40
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    Went to both DNC and SuperGo.

    Still more information gathered and more decisions to make. Liked the weight and looks of the Specialized S-works Stumpjumper.

    SuperGo had the Enduro Pro which looked like a nice option. They also had a Turner frame discounted I think it was a 04 model. They are working up a quote on that and said they would email me later today.

    As far as Titus goes, personally I have had nothing but a positive experience with them. They have offered a Demo bike for a few days and may take them up on that offer.

    Just curious as to why the Intense 5.5 is not really/correct option for me?

    I really want to think all of you for the opinions, suggestions and vendor locations!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Just curious as to why the Intense 5.5 is not really/correct option for me?
    I'm sure you're directing this one my way. I thought I had explained the issue clearly but the fact that it's not clear to you tells me the 5.5 is not the bike for you. Basically, the geometry is not newbie-friendly: The front end is quite steep compared to other bikes in its class, which makes it great for climbing and great if you're an experienced rider. However, steep bikes can be scary on descents, since your body weight is further over the front wheel. Additionally, as nice as the 5.5 is, it's an extra 3-5 lbs. over a 3-to-4" bike.

    Having owned one for almost a year now, it's not clear to me what the bike's correct niche is. It's radical overkill (for me) on XC stuff but it's not nearly enough protection (again, for me) on aggressive/technical XC.

    Basically, the 5.5 is something you buy when you know exactly what you want. It's quite unlike the Enduro, for example -- much better in some ways, not so good in others.

    For $2000 less you can have a bike that's better suited to your skill and fitness level.

    If you have a chance to demo a Titus Racer-X, take it. Take every demo opportunity you can get.

    p.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by .downhillfaster.
    Paul, don't you have a Kona Stinky too?
    Yup. Great bike! I would never wish it on a new rider, though.

    One reason the 5.5 didn't live up to my expectations is that the Dee-Lux is only .5" longer travel front/back but waaaaaay slacker and safer. It was a quick introduction to just how big a deal geometry is.

    p.
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  43. #43
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    I thought that was what you meant Paul! Just wanted to be sure it was not more then one reason. Heck I rode a CR500 for years with a little head shake at speed.

    DHF, I looked at the RMS today at SuperGo. After speaking with Don at DNA I am not so sure I have to have 6” worth of travel for my intensions. I also think there was a post back a few that mentioned the same thing.

    I think I might just relax and absorb as much as I can with research and demo rides. During this time I will continue to ride my TREK 8500 out in Papago after work building up strength and ability!

    BTW, what trail would you all suggest as the next set up from Papago.

    Again I want to thank you all! As this thread origainlly stated. There seems to be a bunch of helpful/nice people out there no matter what riding style you prefer!!

  44. #44
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    Since this thread is now fully hijacked ...

    Supergo does have a RM Switch in stock and on clearance right now. I might humbly suggest that if a 5-inch trailbike -- not a true freeride bike -- is what the gentleman wants, the Switch is probably too much bike.

    I'm a big Rocky Mountain fan and I'm riding a new Flow FS, 5 inches front and rear coil-sprung. I bought mine from Kore Bikes in Tempe and Ryan the owner made a big fan in me with his attention to detail and small one-man-shop mentality.

    The Flow does really well as a trailbike, it's plush but not too heavy to pedal. Just my nickel.
    dion

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    I thought that was what you meant Paul! Just wanted to be sure it was not more then one reason. Heck I rode a CR500 for years with a little head shake at speed.

    I think I might just relax and absorb as much as I can with research and demo rides. During this time I will continue to ride my TREK 8500 out in Papago after work building up strength and ability!

    Again I want to thank you all! As this thread origainlly stated. There seems to be a bunch of helpful/nice people out there no matter what riding style you prefer!!
    Did you ride your CR500 down steep, boulder strewn rutted downhills with it like that?
    Anyway, Paul's point is it is way too easy to go over the handlebars on the 5.5, and from conversations I have had with him it doesn't sound like the kind of thing you just get used to.

    Whatever, your idea to settle back and try all the demos you can is a good one. Once you have ridden your Trek on a bigger variety of the Valley's trails, you will begin to get a better sense of what you want your bike to be able to handle.

    Since you have said you don't want to make a mistake on this one, relax and take your time. I no longer own or ride the first three mountain bikes that I built up a few years ago because I rushed into them and spent a fortune on bikes that really weren't great for the kind of riding I fell in love with over time.

    John W.
    Body Armor--Don't Leave Home Without It!

  46. #46
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn
    Did you ride your CR500 down steep, boulder strewn rutted downhills with it like that?
    Well I did desert riding/racing so there was some pretty fun stuff at times. Head shake was mostly at speed, 70 plus MPH.

    Looking at some different frame specs I noticed that the Intense had a 70 degree head angle. One bike suggested had 68 or 69 degree. So if I understand this correctly a lower head angle kicks the front wheel out more making the over all bike a little longer and more stable. Is there more to it then just head angle, such as distance from seat position to bar position and head angle? The Trek I have has a head angle of 71, would this be less stable then the Intense?

    Trust me I fully plan on riding what I have for a while! I am really glad for the different responses! There is a very good chance responses helped not get into something that may not have been right for me! I believe I have the geometry issue down but just thought I would ask.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Well I did desert riding/racing so there was some pretty fun stuff at times. Head shake was mostly at speed, 70 plus MPH.

    Looking at some different frame specs I noticed that the Intense had a 70 degree head angle. One bike suggested had 68 or 69 degree. So if I understand this correctly a lower head angle kicks the front wheel out more making the over all bike a little longer and more stable. Is there more to it then just head angle, such as distance from seat position to bar position and head angle? The Trek I have has a head angle of 71, would this be less stable then the Intense?

    Trust me I fully plan on riding what I have for a while! I am really glad for the different responses! There is a very good chance responses helped not get into something that may not have been right for me! I believe I have the geometry issue down but just thought I would ask.
    You have the headtube angle concept correct. My Turner DHR, a true DH racing bike has a very slack HT angle of 66 degrees, while the Turner 5-Spot which is a trail bike has HT angle of 69 degrees. Most quick and nimble XC racers have HT angles more like 71 degrees. The more slack or shallow the HT angle, the more stable on the descent, and the less easy it is to go flying over the handlebars as the front wheel strikes obstacles.

    The penalty is that the more slack the HT angle, the less nimble, quick and responsive the bike is in tight maneuvering.

    Seat to bars dimension (effectively the top tube length, which can be adjusted by the length of the stem and the positon of the seat on the seatpost) does also effects how easily you can slide backwards off the seat to get your weight back and lower over the bike, and body position over the bike certainly impacts downhill stability no matter what the HT angle. So those lengths and dimensions are important as well in determining over all stability and handling.

    John W.
    Body Armor--Don't Leave Home Without It!

  48. #48
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    Darn threadjackers!

    Lets get back to what it's all about, STAR WARS!

    As long as folks are talking about bikes and riding, who gives a poop.

    Turb 2929 have you considered building up a Titus Switchblade. Excellent and versatile trailbike. Take advantage of the Titus Demo program and check one out.

    And just what color is Yoda's light saber?

  49. #49
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    Specialized

    FYI,
    Not sure about the other bikes but if you are the original owner of a specialized they have a lifetime warrenty for the original owner in fact I cracked my frame and they sent me a new one this was on my stumpjumper.
    My friend cracked his enduro he got it replaced and he was not even the original owner!!
    Warrenty is something to think about too.

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