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  1. #1
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    Tubleless trouble...help

    I have been struggling with setting up my tubeless on Spec. S20sl wheels and El Capitan tires. When the Stans dried up, I added 50ml more. I did not add through the valve stem. I ran tubes in both tires after a few failed attempts to get a seal. So i just poured Stans in the tire when I pulled the tubes out. My problem now is i can t get a 3' area along the rim near the valve stem to seal. I have spun and shaked the tire. Any ideas?

  2. #2
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    I learned this trick recently and it works awesome if you're using removable valve cores and have an aircompressor..

    - mount the tire with stan's in it
    - take the core out of the valve
    - use the compressed air blasting tool with the rubber tip to blast air into the valve. when the tire pops in place, put your finger over the valve to hold the air in then crew the core back in.

    This method worked great on a really stubborn tire for me. I do it every time now. lots more air can get into the tire quickly without the valve core obstructing the flow.
    After almost giving up on a tire a friend recommended this and it worked in seconds.

  3. #3
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    i dont have a air compressor and I dont think the cores are removable. I have been using C02.to pop the tire. I have a presta valve adapter and might try with my neighbors air compressor.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    i dont have a air compressor and I dont think the cores are removable. I have been using C02.to pop the tire. I have a presta valve adapter and might try with my neighbors air compressor.
    If you're gonna run tubeless, especially ghetto style you should really look on CL or Sears for an air compressor. Those Co2's are gonna get real expensive real quick.

    I second the chongomans recommendation, worked for me when I was having trouble with a Maxxis non ust tire.

  5. #5
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    Whats the condition of that 3"? Is the rim all chewed up preventing a seal? I'm assuming that you got the bead to pop all the way around the tire.

    Haver you tried laying the tire on a garbage can horizontaly with that side down so the stans can pool in that area to hepl seal it?

    I use homebrew, and it seems to help mine to bounce the tire/rim like a basketball to get a good seal all around.

  6. #6
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    My air compressor did not have enough continuous PSI to get the bead to pop a new tire on a clean rim. I ended up at the gas station, removed the Stans valve core and finally the tire popped into place. It's been rock solid through a couple of dirty century rides.

  7. #7
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    +1 to what Chongo, EDR and ajmelin said. I got my air compressor for a bit over $100 from Sears, and its been great for bikes and other small projects. Its almost a mandatory tool if you go tubeless - I have 3 bikes for 2 adults running tubeless, so its easier to justify, but still...

    if you have issues in one part of the rim, try 'painting' that part with some latex. gawd help you if you ever need to reseal that tire or remount it cause you will have globs and globs of goo, but it can work...
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  8. #8
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    CO2 is a good for quick fixes but it will not keep tires inflated for very long. It's soluble in the tire rubber, ie: escapes faster than O2. If you're using Stan's the CO2 will pretty much dry it up. Go to a gas station and pay the fifty cents for the compressed air.

  9. #9
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    Is the air coming out from the tire/rim interface or the stem? if it's the stem, the air is most likely leaking out from under the rim tape. (my biggest problem)

    BTW how do you get stans through a presta stem?

    Steve
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    Is the air coming out from the tire/rim interface or the stem? if it's the stem, the air is most likely leaking out from under the rim tape. (my biggest problem)

    BTW how do you get stans through a presta stem?

    Steve
    some presta stems have removable cores. NoTubes and others sell them. You can buy a screw-on adapter with a bit of hose and a syringe, or make your own. The stems can be moved from bike to bike. Well worth having if you do a lot of tubeless work.
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  11. #11
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    Nice!! my stems are removable. Thats when I get the "under the tape" leaks is when I bust it loose to refresh the stans!!

    I didn't think that stuff would fit in that tiny hole

    Thanks!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    Nice!! my stems are removable. Thats when I get the "under the tape" leaks is when I bust it loose to refresh the stans!!

    I didn't think that stuff would fit in that tiny hole

    Thanks!
    a few other things...you can buy a small plastic valve core wrench that will remove your cores without chewing them up. Its also useful to have an extra stem or 2 and an extra core or 2 available. I keep a core and wrench in my pack.

    after i refill my sealant, I'll do a little flush with water into the stem and scrape any sediment off the core.

    Depending on your stem, the shape of the built-on gasket can come into play. Some of the earlier NoTubes or generic cores have a gasket at the bottom that is square. I've since replaced all mine with one that is cone-shaped. It can suffer a lot more wiggling and retightening that way. Browse the NoTubes site for ideas...
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  13. #13
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    Thanks Cholla,
    My issue is the really tight spechy tires I use, the tire tool lifts the rim tape after several removals and walla!! a dang leak!! the stems I use are the ones with the green cap and the rim shaped rubber sealing area. LBS recommended using a small bit of wheelbearing grease when installing a new stem.

    Thanks again.

    Steve
    Drinkin the S-Works Kool-aid

  14. #14
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    An air compressor is a GOOD thing - I have a nice big one that I use for most project, but, I have a little one (I have an older model that I picked up on clearance at Target for 20) thats good for little projects and air nailing, filling tires (car too)

    Heres a cheap $60 one thats availible around places

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    Thanks Cholla,
    My issue is the really tight spechy tires I use, the tire tool lifts the rim tape after several removals and walla!! a dang leak!! the stems I use are the ones with the green cap and the rim shaped rubber sealing area. LBS recommended using a small bit of wheelbearing grease when installing a new stem.

    Thanks again.

    Steve
    fwiw, most tubeless wheels need some new tape after a few tires. I keep the yellow tape on hand. It was the same when I had ghetto tubeless. I don't think tubeless tires are any kind of silver bullet, but i'd rather do the work in my garage than on the trail.
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  16. #16
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    Thanks for all the tips. I'll report back. Going to try the trash can and paint the rim trick. I'll use the Caffe Latex I have to paint the rim, since its no good for anything else.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman View Post
    I learned this trick recently and it works awesome if you're using removable valve cores and have an aircompressor..

    - mount the tire with stan's in it
    - take the core out of the valve
    - use the compressed air blasting tool with the rubber tip to blast air into the valve. when the tire pops in place, put your finger over the valve to hold the air in then crew the core back in.

    This method worked great on a really stubborn tire for me. I do it every time now. lots more air can get into the tire quickly without the valve core obstructing the flow.
    After almost giving up on a tire a friend recommended this and it worked in seconds.
    I don't put the Stans in until I seat the bead. I did once and made a huge friggin messI always make sure to suspend the wheel (on the bike or stand or vice) to keep any pressure from being put on the tire. Using the blow-gun always gets the bead to seat almost immediately. Once the bead is set its set, you can let the air escape as long as there is no pressure on the tire and put Stans in through the stem.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo View Post
    Thanks Cholla,
    My issue is the really tight spechy tires I use, the tire tool lifts the rim tape after several removals and walla!! a dang leak!! the stems I use are the ones with the green cap and the rim shaped rubber sealing area. LBS recommended using a small bit of wheelbearing grease when installing a new stem.

    Thanks again.

    Steve
    Try using Gorilla tape. It has worked great for my ghetto system
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  19. #19
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    Went the gas station. Got the bead to set but I couldnt get a seal from the valve stem no matter how tight i screwed the nut. It would just spray out Stans. Maybe it will seal up over night. If not I guess my next options is to replace the valve stems. Never had this problem wit the Mavic Crossmax on my 26 bike,

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    Went the gas station. Got the bead to set but I couldnt get a seal from the valve stem no matter how tight i screwed the nut. It would just spray out Stans. Maybe it will seal up over night. If not I guess my next options is to replace the valve stems. Never had this problem wit the Mavic Crossmax on my 26 bike,
    unfortunately you will have to break the bead again to get to the stem. make sure that the gasket is making flush contact with the metal of the rim, no tape or other stuff blocking the gasket. If the gasket is shredded, you need a new one. . you shouldnt need to screw down a healthy one more than hand tight.
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  21. #21
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    You could use these if you have a valve-stem hole to fit schraeder valves or you could drill out your rims to fit.

    Black anodized aluminum valve

    See post # 36/37
    http://forums.mtbr.com/arizona/threa...ss-621638.html

    An easy mod to do (I cut 5mm off nut) as described above.
    Worth every penny!

    Black anodized; Laser etched 949 logo, reputed to be worth 3hp!

  22. #22
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    I was able to get the rear to seal and hold air, Still fighting the front. I have tried three different valve stems. A Mavic, Spec (the rims are Spec) and a Stans. Neither will seal the front wheel. Im pretty sure all three stems are in good condition. Does anyone have any tircks to seal the whole in the rim better? The Spec valves seem to work the best and its what I used on the rear. The Mavic doesnt fit and the Stans doesnt has a very small gasket. I was thinking about cutting a patch from an old tube and making a small pucture in it and threading the valve through to get a better seal.
    Last edited by fiveo; 09-08-2011 at 12:26 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman View Post
    I learned this trick recently and it works awesome if you're using removable valve cores and have an aircompressor..

    - mount the tire with stan's in it
    - take the core out of the valve
    - use the compressed air blasting tool with the rubber tip to blast air into the valve. when the tire pops in place, put your finger over the valve to hold the air in then crew the core back in.

    This method worked great on a really stubborn tire for me. I do it every time now. lots more air can get into the tire quickly without the valve core obstructing the flow.
    After almost giving up on a tire a friend recommended this and it worked in seconds.
    +1 on chongoman's method. I used to seat tires with a standard pump until I met one that just wouldn't seal up. If I take a tire off the rim I'll still clean up both mated surfaces and then reseat with the water/soap method first. Then add the Stan's and inflate to pressure. Works like a charm.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    I was able to get the rear to seal and hold air, Still fighting the front. I have tried three different valve stems. A Mavic, Spec (the rims are Spec) and a Stans. Neither will seal the front wheel. Im pretty sure all three stems are in good condition. Does anyone have any tircks to seal the whole in the rim better? The Spec valves seem to work the best and its what I used on the rear. The Mavic doesnt fit and the Stans doesnt has a very small gasket. I was thinking about cutting a patch from an old tube and making a small pucture in it and threading the valve through to get a better seal.
    I've had good luck with just making a "X" in the tape right at the stem hole in the rim instead of trying to cut out a hole. Then push the stem through the "X", even out the strip, mount and inflate/seal. Maybe you have a bad burr from drilling out the hole which is cutting the rubber base of the stem?

  25. #25
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    The X as mentioned above or on some older thread on here there was a guys who used hobby liquid latex with a paintbrush on the sidewalls of the tire to improve the seal. He said it worked even with old beat tires. May work with the stem too.
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ_Wook View Post
    I've had good luck with just making a "X" in the tape right at the stem hole in the rim instead of trying to cut out a hole. Then push the stem through the "X", even out the strip, mount and inflate/seal. Maybe you have a bad burr from drilling out the hole which is cutting the rubber base of the stem?
    that is the recommended method by NoTubes.

    i think painting the stem with latex will ultimately fail, since the stem receives a lot of tension over time.
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  27. #27
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    I gave in. Gave the LBS $20 bucks. I just couldnt take it anymore.

  28. #28
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    I've run numerous tubeless systems with good results all around aside from a few tires that were tough to seal initially due to being a thin/light construction, not designed for tubeless..they oozed stans right through the side wall for weeks before sealing fully (this happened on a Kenda small block 8, a maxxis crossmark, and a WTB wolverine...none of which were tubeless specific).

    At the end of the day, I like the ghetto method best overall. it's just such a tidy setup. I always bite the boolit, drill my rims for shraders and use cheap splayed out 20in bmx tubes..the nice thing is the tube works like a gasket between the tire and the rim, and then how can it not seal off the rim entirely? I haven't had a flat on the trail in 3 years running this setup. I have had them loose pressure occasionally due to mega cactus encounters or a hard burp, but that's where a couple CO2 squirts come in..

    Just my $.02. My SS 29er has full on non ghetto tubeless with fancy rims and fancy tires and it happens to have a flat as I write this. The other 5 bikes in my family room all have ghetto setups and are fully inflated!

    oh yeah, get the compressor for sure...
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyBones View Post
    You could use these if you have a valve-stem hole to fit schraeder valves or you could drill out your rims to fit.

    Black anodized aluminum valve

    See post # 36/37
    http://forums.mtbr.com/arizona/threa...ss-621638.html

    An easy mod to do (I cut 5mm off nut) as described above.
    Worth every penny!

    Black anodized; Laser etched 949 logo, reputed to be worth 3hp!
    I gave these valves a try, they fit inside the rim perfectly. Really nice for a tubeless setup using shrader valves.

  30. #30
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    Few things that most have already said:

    • Seat the bead first with no stans, if it won't hold air without Stan's it isn't going to be a very reliable setup. I usually do up to 60psi to get the bead to pop and seat well.
    • Once bead seats well(I use soapy water in a spray bottle to get it lubed) crack a section of bead and add stans, or fill through the valve stem if removable.
    • With a decent ghetto setup or full UST tubeless wheels/tires I have had good luck with a high volume floor pump, though a good air compressor always beads it.
    • Sections that are leaking a bit, spray the whole thing again with soapy water, real soapy, and then turn over for a few hours, then go back and reinflate.



    Also, just getting some UST tires for your ghetto setup makes it way easier than using some thin XC tire that isn't made for it, you are gunna slice so many sidewalls and have more issues than it is worth.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    i dont have a air compressor and I dont think the cores are removable. I have been using C02.to pop the tire. I have a presta valve adapter and might try with my neighbors air compressor.
    Air compressors are very nice for cycling, plus lots of other uses (impact wrench, etc). I use the impact wrench with the footnut of my marzocchi forks, but otherwise it's just nice for everything.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxBenK View Post
    Few things that most have already said:

    • Seat the bead first with no stans, if it won't hold air without Stan's it isn't going to be a very reliable setup. I usually do up to 60psi to get the bead to pop and seat well.
    • Once bead seats well(I use soapy water in a spray bottle to get it lubed) crack a section of bead and add stans, or fill through the valve stem if removable.
    • With a decent ghetto setup or full UST tubeless wheels/tires I have had good luck with a high volume floor pump, though a good air compressor always beads it.
    • Sections that are leaking a bit, spray the whole thing again with soapy water, real soapy, and then turn over for a few hours, then go back and reinflate.



    Also, just getting some UST tires for your ghetto setup makes it way easier than using some thin XC tire that isn't made for it, you are gunna slice so many sidewalls and have more issues than it is worth.
    One thing to add to this summary:

    If the rim tape and/or the rim strip (I use both) is compromised in any way, you'll have
    almost no chance of getting the bead to seal for shjt.
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